Guest guest Posted November 27, 1999 Report Share Posted November 27, 1999 In a message dated 11/26/99 5:30:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, chestnutt@... writes: << Explain please.... Is Russ a salesman for Mannatech or somethint?? I personally have never heard of that product line. So.. you got me rather confused here. Is this a cure-all according to Russ? .. You have an opinion and I am interested in why you responded as you did. >> I'm just tired of this guy trying to sell his product via this list. He sounds like a broken record, or a politician for chrissakes. I despise fake people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2000 Report Share Posted March 5, 2000 My understanding of the zapper is that it creates negative ions in the body. In doing so, the most affected organisms would be parasites. One must realize that even in the case where desireable bacteria is killed, the ratio between desirable bacteria and non-desirable bacteria is extreme. Let's say ( I don't have the data to give a viable example ) that one has a 5,000,000 count of a particular non-desirable bacteria in the body in which the immune system is attempting to eliminate. The count of desirable bacteria would be at least 50,000,000. Say one zapper treatment eliminates 50% of the bacteria. The non-desirable bacteria would be at 2,500,000. The desirable bacteria would still be at a count of 25,000,000, and would replicate back to the desired count very quickly, while the immune system would keep the count of the non-desirable bacteria low. On the diet note, if one starts from a healthy condition, chances are the body is still quite capable of dealing with bacteria/ect that one may come in contact with from using non-sterile milk products. Any type of "longevitity" group has reached that level of immune performance. However, as the name of the book implies, people who are starting from a diseased condition need to take more drastic actions to turn the immune system "balance" so to speak. is brilliant in that she starts from a prime cause, and builds her entire regime around a prime principle. Ask the longevity groups how many "fall-outs" they've had. My best guess would be over 80%, leaving the 20% or less group which remains in great health. If I take this as a demographic statistical sample, the numbers are not very flattering. As with most diets, the body will often resist, and resist strongly. There are usually good reasons for this. Blood sugar is often one of the strongest. My personal experience with the zapper is that it does kill parasites. I have personally experienced no unpleasant side effects. I was doubtful that I even HAD undesirable parasites. Not anymore! Sincerely, R. Eaton Dear List;After monitoring this list for quite some time, I went out and bought Dr.'s book, "How to Cure All Diseases" It makes for very interestingreading, but has left me with some unresolved questions. Since this is anunmoderated list, I expect differing answers. Thank you, one and all, foryour contributions.Gordon1. There is a warning against eating grains because of their highphosphate content. Yet, Adale has written that phosphorous andsodium need to be balanced. Since we get far too much sodium in ourdiets, wouldn't the extra phosphorous in grains be a positive addition toour diets?2. I have concluded that the "zapper" kills bacteria, both good and bad.If we do a lot of zapping, what does that do to the good intestinalflora, which we need?3. I eat a lot of yogurt to promote good intestinal flora. Yet, I am toldby Dr. that yogurt is a no-no, bacause milk products need to besterilized. I thought that there is a society of yogurt-eaters which isnoted for its longevity. Can anyone donfirm that thought?4. I've been warned to stay away from the irradiated milk that is storedon the grocery shelves. In her book, Dr. tells us that sterilizedmilk, which can be stored on grocery shelves, is the better kind. Isthere a difference, and if so, how do I find milk in a box that issterilized, but not irradiated?5. When I drink whole or 2% milk, I get a post nasal drip that drives meto distraction. Will that be eliminated if I boil the milk before I drinkit? Needless to say, I'm loathe to try the experiment on myself.6. Since I do not eat meat, I depend for a goodly part of my proteinintake on cheese. Now I find that Dr. is opposed to cheese, whichdoesn't cause me problems, and not opposed to milk, which does. This isthe point of confusion which has caused me the most difficulty.Please feel free to reply off-list. I accept, and appreciate, allresponses, except for those from u no hoo >>> 3x + / wk 1-2x / wk 0-1x / wk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2000 Report Share Posted March 5, 2000 Dear Gordon, You have certainly raised some valid and thought-provoking questions. As one of the list moderators (yes there are two list moderators), I have forwarded your posting to Geoffrey (Hulda 's son) and who is a member of the Dr Association. I have asked them to respond to your questions, as I felt that the best most valid answers would come from them. I hope I have not stepped on anyone's toes in doing so. Sincerely, Ira M. Fine iramfine@... <<<Subj: Confusion Date: 03/05/2000 9:52:14 AM Eastern Standard Time From: krausgl@... (Gordon L Kraus) Reply-to: Dronelist Dronelist From: Gordon L Kraus <krausgl@...> Dear List; After monitoring this list for quite some time, I went out and bought Dr. 's book, " How to Cure All Diseases " It makes for very interesting reading, but has left me with some unresolved questions. Since this is an unmoderated list, I expect differing answers. Thank you, one and all, for your contributions. Gordon 1. There is a warning against eating grains because of their high phosphate content. Yet, Adale has written that phosphorous and sodium need to be balanced. Since we get far too much sodium in our diets, wouldn't the extra phosphorous in grains be a positive addition to our diets? 2. I have concluded that the " zapper " kills bacteria, both good and bad. If we do a lot of zapping, what does that do to the good intestinal flora, which we need? 3. I eat a lot of yogurt to promote good intestinal flora. Yet, I am told by Dr. that yogurt is a no-no, bacause milk products need to be sterilized. I thought that there is a society of yogurt-eaters which is noted for its longevity. Can anyone donfirm that thought? 4. I've been warned to stay away from the irradiated milk that is stored on the grocery shelves. In her book, Dr. tells us that sterilized milk, which can be stored on grocery shelves, is the better kind. Is there a difference, and if so, how do I find milk in a box that is sterilized, but not irradiated? 5. When I drink whole or 2% milk, I get a post nasal drip that drives me to distraction. Will that be eliminated if I boil the milk before I drink it? Needless to say, I'm loathe to try the experiment on myself. 6. Since I do not eat meat, I depend for a goodly part of my protein intake on cheese. Now I find that Dr. is opposed to cheese, which doesn't cause me problems, and not opposed to milk, which does. This is the point of confusion which has caused me the most difficulty. Please feel free to reply off-list. I accept, and appreciate, all responses, except for those from u no hoo >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2000 Report Share Posted March 5, 2000 Assuming you are referring to the book THE CURE FOR ALL DISEASES (this is for the folks searching for the title amongst the archives): 1. Do phosphorous and sodium (sic) need to be balanced? " ...the body's normal elimination tactic for phosphate is to combine it with calcium and magnesium in order to neutralize it first... " ---pg 63. 2. Do zappers harm good intestinal flora? " ...the zapping current does not reach deep into the..bowel contents... " ---pg 20 " ...killing a few (E.coli and Salmonella) by zapping actually RESTORES good flora... " ---pg 548. " ...even though (zapping) kills some " good " with some " bad " bacteria, no harm is done...the stool is recolonized in one to two days... " ---pg 301 " ...the good news is that perfect bowel habits often result in a few days ... homemade yogurt and buttermilk (see recipes) are especially good at recolonizing the bowel... " ---pg 21. 3a. Is yogurt a no-no? " ...buy a yogurt maker...be sure and use boiled milk... " ---pg 521. 3b. How do I find things out for myself about yogurt society, etc.,? http://www.yaourt.org/goodhealth.html in the future, http://www.ask.com 4. How do I avoid purchasing IRRADIATED (sic?)sterilized milk? I could find no references or mention of irridated milk. All milk must however, be sterilized---pg 517. 5. Will BOILING milk cure my post nasal drip (caused I think) by drinking unboiled milk? " ...ALL MILK SHOULD BE STERILIZED by boiling it for 10 seconds. If it makes mucous, you already have a chronic respiratory infection. Try to clear this up... " ---pg 517. " ...milk that is marketed in paper containers that need no refrigeration has been sterilized; it is safe... " ---pg 278. 6. Why am I not affected by eating cheese, although milk gives me problems? (I think the book says cheese is bad and milk is good(sic)) be cured of the symptoms (only you know what symptoms you display) " ...eat the simplest dairy products you can find... " ---pg 126 The Cure For All Cancers From: Gordon L Kraus <krausgl@...> Dear List; After monitoring this list for quite some time, I went out and bought Dr. 's book, " How to Cure All Diseases " It makes for very interesting reading, but has left me with some unresolved questions. Since this is an unmoderated list, I expect differing answers. Thank you, one and all, for your contributions. Gordon 1. There is a warning against eating grains because of their high phosphate content. Yet, Adale has written that phosphorous and sodium need to be balanced. Since we get far too much sodium in our diets, wouldn't the extra phosphorous in grains be a positive addition to our diets? 2. I have concluded that the " zapper " kills bacteria, both good and bad. If we do a lot of zapping, what does that do to the good intestinal flora, which we need? 3. I eat a lot of yogurt to promote good intestinal flora. Yet, I am told by Dr. that yogurt is a no-no, bacause milk products need to be sterilized. I thought that there is a society of yogurt-eaters which is noted for its longevity. Can anyone donfirm that thought? 4. I've been warned to stay away from the irradiated milk that is stored on the grocery shelves. In her book, Dr. tells us that sterilized milk, which can be stored on grocery shelves, is the better kind. Is there a difference, and if so, how do I find milk in a box that is sterilized, but not irradiated? 5. When I drink whole or 2% milk, I get a post nasal drip that drives me to distraction. Will that be eliminated if I boil the milk before I drink it? Needless to say, I'm loathe to try the experiment on myself. 6. Since I do not eat meat, I depend for a goodly part of my protein intake on cheese. Now I find that Dr. is opposed to cheese, which doesn't cause me problems, and not opposed to milk, which does. This is the point of confusion which has caused me the most difficulty. Please feel free to reply off-list. I accept, and appreciate, all responses, except for those from u no hoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2000 Report Share Posted March 6, 2000 Thanks for your (unexpected) reply. Yes, I am a devotee of Dr. (and what better place to be than at her discussion group?) I WANT to live in a world in which the cure for cancer, HIV, AIDS, and ALL other diseases exists. To this end, I will do the homework of the skeptics, for they are the most in need. I will read her books, experience her protocols, research the WEB, and yes, even do the SASE envelope thing as mentioned below! Concerning proof, what proof could Edison give that a light bulb was needed over existing light sources? Or what proof did Tesla use to justify giving away his AC power rights to Westinghouse? What proof did NASA have before sending a man to walk on it, that it was safe? You have in your possession a book that I quoted from in the hope that you could find answers to your questions with your own eyes. To 's credit, she says in her book The Cure For All Cancers: RESEARCH ARTICLES AVAILABLE in the interests of stimulating further research in theses areas, the articles referred to in this book and many other related articles, may be obtained from New Century Press at a nominal fee. Send a SASE to New Century Press for an order form. By offering these copies, the author wishes to eliminate the time needed by EACH INTERESTED reader in getting to a major library seeking out the referenced article, and copying it. Many are so old they are no longer in print, yet the topics turn out to be highly relevant and worth further research. " Marve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2000 Report Share Posted March 6, 2000 mratchford@... wrote: > > Thanks for your (unexpected) reply. > > Yes, I am a devotee of Dr. (and what better place to be than at her > discussion group?) I WANT to live in a world in which the cure for > cancer, HIV, AIDS, and ALL other diseases exists. To this end, I will do > the homework of the skeptics, for they are the most in need. Marve, As a skeptic of Dr. , I have done a great deal of " homework. " I will consider the SASE approach you mention, but I am concerned that the " fees " and the " articles " may not be worth it. Please give me a little more info on the SASE articles related to documenting Dr. 's actual cures of cancer patients, and especially those related to follow up of the patient after being pronounced " cured. " I will go to a book store and look it up if you give me page numbers. I no longer have my copy of " The Cure For All Cancers. " Thank you, Bill Ross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2000 Report Share Posted March 7, 2000 Dear Gordon, Regarding your question about eating protein, it is my understanding that the human body has the ability to produce its own protein from plants. I know of a very healthy Vegan expert on this topic who has eaten nothing but green plants (hefty salads) and some-thing called " barley green " for the last 20 years. It makes sense to me. After all, what do cows, chickens and sheep eat? Just grass or grains, and we eat them for their protein. Certainly our bodies are created with the same ability as theirs are. By the way, how did you obtain a copy of Dr. 's book? Thanks. Lynne >From: Gordon L Kraus <krausgl@...> >Reply-Dronelist >Dronelist >Subject: Confusion >Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 09:48:45 -0500 > >Dear List; >After monitoring this list for quite some time, I went out and bought Dr. >'s book, " How to Cure All Diseases " It makes for very interesting >reading, but has left me with some unresolved questions. Since this is an >unmoderated list, I expect differing answers. Thank you, one and all, for >your contributions. >Gordon > >1. There is a warning against eating grains because of their high >phosphate content. Yet, Adale has written that phosphorous and >sodium need to be balanced. Since we get far too much sodium in our >diets, wouldn't the extra phosphorous in grains be a positive addition to >our diets? > >2. I have concluded that the " zapper " kills bacteria, both good and bad. >If we do a lot of zapping, what does that do to the good intestinal >flora, which we need? > >3. I eat a lot of yogurt to promote good intestinal flora. Yet, I am told >by Dr. that yogurt is a no-no, bacause milk products need to be >sterilized. I thought that there is a society of yogurt-eaters which is >noted for its longevity. Can anyone donfirm that thought? > >4. I've been warned to stay away from the irradiated milk that is stored >on the grocery shelves. In her book, Dr. tells us that sterilized >milk, which can be stored on grocery shelves, is the better kind. Is >there a difference, and if so, how do I find milk in a box that is >sterilized, but not irradiated? > >5. When I drink whole or 2% milk, I get a post nasal drip that drives me >to distraction. Will that be eliminated if I boil the milk before I drink >it? Needless to say, I'm loathe to try the experiment on myself. > >6. Since I do not eat meat, I depend for a goodly part of my protein >intake on cheese. Now I find that Dr. is opposed to cheese, which >doesn't cause me problems, and not opposed to milk, which does. This is >the point of confusion which has caused me the most difficulty. > >Please feel free to reply off-list. I accept, and appreciate, all >responses, except for those from u no hoo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2000 Report Share Posted March 8, 2000 Re: Confusion Lynn, The human digestive system and that of a cow are not comparable, as I understand them. Cattle can digest Plant cellulose because they have additional " equipment " and processes to do so. Humans don't. We have one stomach, they have several. I doubt you could live long eating hay---most of it passing through your system without much nutritional value being extracted. Thought it might be possible to extract more value, if it were " cooked " and processed so as to make its leafy content more digestible. Fruits and vegetables are different with their high sugar content and digestible carbohydrates. I seriously doubt your Vegan friend eats hay and mature grasses to sustain himself. The barley grasses and alfalfa sprouts are eaten in fact when they are sprouts--because it is the only time when they are digestible and their food value is of extractible nature by the human digestive system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2000 Report Share Posted March 8, 2000 To Solbach: My point was, that animals produce protein from plants. Our bodies are also capable of producing protein from plants : " How to Cure and Prevent Any Disease " by R. Gebauer (website also, same name). Secondly, when we cook ANY plant based food, we are destroying the enzymes in it, which are essential to optimal health (note the ad- jective " optimal " ... not just " good " ). I repeat my point, for emphasis: the human body is capable of producing its own protein from plants. We don't need protein from dead animals, nor do we need to drink the milk or eat the milk products from animals ( we are the ONLY creatures that drink another species' milk). If we'd give our bodies the chance, we'd see that they are, indeed, " fearfully and wonderfully made " . Lynne >From: " Solbach " <asolbach@...> >Reply-Dronelist ><Dronelist> >Subject: RE: Confusion >Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 23:33:37 -0600 > > > > Re: Confusion > > >Lynn, > >The human digestive system and that of a cow are not comparable, as I >understand them. Cattle can digest Plant cellulose because they have >additional " equipment " and processes to do so. Humans don't. We have one >stomach, they have several. I doubt you could live long eating hay---most >of >it passing through your system without much nutritional value being >extracted. Thought it might be possible to extract more value, if it were > " cooked " and processed so as to make its leafy content more digestible. >Fruits and vegetables are different with their high sugar content and >digestible carbohydrates. > >I seriously doubt your Vegan friend eats hay and mature grasses to sustain >himself. The barley grasses and alfalfa sprouts are eaten in fact when they >are sprouts--because it is the only time when they are digestible and their >food value is of extractible nature by the human digestive system. > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2000 Report Share Posted March 9, 2000 Original Message----- From: Lynne Wallace [mailto:LynneMWallace@...] Sent: Wed, March 08, 2000 6:10 PM Dronelist Subject: RE: Confusion Lynne, Your point is well taken. I know there are a lot of folks out there who believe like you do Lynne. Far be it from me to come between a person and his conscience. But (yes the big but), I do not find your logic convincing. I know this is probably not the forum to remark on eating philosophy, but since you brought it up I will briefly respond to your remarks. Some folks are vegetarians and some folk's aren't. Pardon my rhetoric. Yes, we may be the only creatures who drink other animal's milk on a regular basis. But I've seen not a few farm cats and kittens eagerly slurp down milk from a cow's teat. Didn't seem to cut their little kitty lives short one bit. But then lions probably eat not only the milk of those mamma animals they kill, but their mammary glands as well. So what is the point? Which group of animals shall we take as examples. Most creatures eat other creature to stay alive. Cows, well they eat plants, but they also consume not a few grams of microbial animal life on the plants. The microbes, well they eat other microbes. Dust mites, well they don't eat dust, they our dead skin we leave lying around the house. And Something else eats them. So who to say Lynne who needs to eat whom? Have you ever examined those plants you eat under microscope? They are literally crawling with the " flesh " of small creatures---which you gladly consume unawares. So the distinctions you draw about dead animals seem conventional and normalized. Big animals, little animals: it's a matter of convention, isn't it? Yes, our bodies can make proteins from energy provided by either plant or animal tissue. So what? The cell metabolizes sugars and fats for energy. It does not care or know where those molecules came from. Yes, there are a lot of things humans do that animals don't. Animals don't write books or read them. They don't contemplate the world of physics and chemistry. They don't communicate by email. They don't set their own broken bones or record their discoveries and experiences for posterity. They don't contemplate their own mortality. They don't prepare for a heaven or a hell. Yes, I agree our bodies are fearfully and wonderfully made. But then so are those little animals you consume when you eat your salad or eat your oats, or down your favorite fruit. Are not the plants also fearfully and wonderfully made? Why should we kill and eat them? Why eat dead plant material? Why eat living plant material? Freshness? Ah, yes, the freshness of living plant bodies. It would be nice if we did not have to kill and eat anything. Perhaps those oxygenarians are right? All we need to do is breath in our nutrition from the air. A little levity. Not trying to be a smart-alec, but probably succeeding anyway. Now I subscribe to much of the health food dictums which I read about. I used Dr. 's methods to help cure my wife of malignant brain tumor (going on five years now). I also used Dr. Budwig's Flax Oil diet with good results in other cancer sufferers. I take the stuff myself. I drink green tea and eat sensibly. But I don't do it because of convention---I do it because it makes sense scientifically. There is good science behind it. There is also a lot of tripe and bad science behind many health food fads. Much of it generated a priori---that is philosophically, in the great tradition of the Flat Earth Society. So thanks Lynne you have stimulated me to think. If I may paraphrase Emerson: What I appreciate in my worthy opponent is not instruction but provocation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2001 Report Share Posted February 14, 2001 > Porter lost 57 pounds on his challenge. Porter began to try to lose the fat before he started the challenge. He also took longer than 12 weeks. You willl need to go at the oace ur body can handle and don't worry about whether your results are like his. > I take it nobody on here knows Bill personally but I really > REALLY want t to be a champion and meet him. I think hes the > man. I met Bill at the recent Book signing in Dallas. He is very noce guy, and a " real " person. >I gues all Im asking for is the bad ass fat > loss plan and what I need to add to BFL. Just follow the plan. Don't go trying to modify it as you have already inquired into by looking at Hussman's site. The plan works. Just do it. And quit with the smoking. Whether or not it should be illegal is not the issue -- it is undoubtedly bad for you and will cause you to be lazy and overeat. Good Luck. Collin Porterfield Dallas TX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2001 Report Share Posted February 15, 2001 You are correct Kit. And in 1999 there were over 540,000 entrants and in 2000 there were over 700,000 entrants. I'm going from memory here too. Now, how many actually finished and sent in their packets.....about 4% to 6% of those! Cheryl C. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- <In 1997 when Porter won there were 54000 entrants that completed the contest if I recall> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2001 Report Share Posted June 5, 2001 I have always thought that it would be rare that a child would (especially at 5) would have osteo arthritis. I mean in general terms I guess most people would say it's rare for a child to have arthritis at all...of course those of us on this list know better. But osteo and rheumatoid are very different. (At least that is my understanding). I do know of a syndrome that does have osteo arthritis/ and children can have the arthritis as part of that condition.....(I am sure that there must be others conditions that would lend to child hood osteoarthritis.--I'm just not knowledgeable in them) Did you have any other medical issues as a child/or perhaps an infant? They need not have to have any bearing on joints at all.... I'm thinking of hearing, sight, that sort of thing. I think you are wise to get to the bottom of what the underlying condition is before going in for surgery. Wish I could help you on the doctor front but we live on the west coast. Best of luck Sharon and Meghann JRA and PRS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2001 Report Share Posted June 6, 2001 Hello everybody, , that is a wise decision, looking for another opinion, although might I suggest, if it is at all possible, that you seek a second opinion outside of your state. The reason I say this is because, I have found that the medical community all with in one state often follow the same train of thought, in the diagnoses of patients, suffering from any form of Arthritis! And the fact that you have ostio, is not to say you don't have jra, or that you never did, because I have ostio, and it is symptomatic with jra, just tell those QUACKS! to pull their bill's, out of their ! Because I believe most of them could not distinguish a mountain from a mole hill . Well now that I got that out of my system. But by the sounds of your knee joint situation, I would say that a joint replacement is going to offer you some greatly need relief, If you feel that you're being given improper or misleading advise, as to the course of action for the treatment of your condition, then I would suggest, that you seek legal counsel. It clears their minds quickly! I don't hold to the Idea of law suets, but I do believe in a patients right to good, competent care! Good Luck, with what ever you decried! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2001 Report Share Posted June 20, 2001 Deborah, I know what you mean! I get terrible brain fog that effects my work...my job isn't too challenging (cashier), however, I still forget the little things. The other day I approved someone for instant store credit and forgot to scan in their 10% off discount...I had to type all the numbers in all over again! My manager was a little upset. I sometimes forget to give people their merchandise, because I've set it behind me...I am known for this. And my memory used to be great! I am just glad I still have a job, I guess, judging by all the stupid stuff I've done. *** *** --- henhao_us@... wrote: > I went to Fresh Fields to pick up some sea > seasonings (nori-cayenne, > yum!) and could not find my car. I forgot where I > parked it! > > At work, I started walking into the men's room and > stopped just in > time. I just didn't look at the sign. > > This is sorta funny and sorta horrifying. All I can > do is be amused > like I am trying to be with so many of these funny > symptoms. I also > see little things flying at the edge of my eyes. I > know some of you > have had that, too. > > Have a happy day everyone! > Deborah > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2001 Report Share Posted August 17, 2001 Hi Lynda, if has had a good trial with ERP but still is significantly burdened by her OCD symptoms, then considering meds is a reasonable next step, according to a consensus opinion of OCD docs. My daughter (7) doesn't want to talk about OCD much either any more, but I can gauge the level of OCD interference by the compulsions I see. In 's case, that would be by the number of times in a day she asks for reassurance that she doesn't need to worry about something. List members tend to gripe about SSRIs, their side effects and so on, which can be difficult, but these meds have allowed many of our kids to function, to work hard at ERP, and so on. Also, meds can be considered temporary " water wings " while a child learns to cope with the disorder and maximize gains from therapy. Several kids on this list, following successful CBT, take very small doses or none at all. The gains from therapy are enduring, while the relief from SSRIs fades when they are withdrawn. Deciding on a trial of SSRI does not have to be thought of as " forever. " Deciding to put a young child on an SSRI can be difficult, and I don't think anyone makes this decision lightly. But many studies have found SSRIs safe, and several are FDA-approved for children 's age and I think, younger. Why is reluctant to take OCD meds? Is this a fear (OCD) or ??? SSRIs for my child were necessary, and while on them, she made huge gains through ERP. Today she takes a very low dose of Zoloft, down from 200mg almost two years ago. Kathy R. in Indiana p.s. I'm *still* looking for my magic wand, to wave and make OCD just disappear . . . LOL :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: <kdsmom8@...> > I haven't posted in a while but I read the groups post daily. I am > at a lose as to what to do. > > My daughter, 8yr., was dx with ocd in June. We started seeing > a doctor then. At that point her ocd seemed manageable. She was not > put on meds and we started cbt. Her main ocd was worries about > scratching thing/hurting things. (not people, just " things " ) That > ocd was quickly taken care of. (it sometimes still comes up but she > can mostly take care of it) Her compulsion part of ocd is coming to > me to say " is it ok, did I scratch it, hurt it " ...on and on. It > seems like she is only getting worse more and more worries pop up > daily. Last dr. appt. we talked about meds. ( was very upset > and says she will not take them) I feel it is a hard choice because > is still happy and ocd does not seem to interfere with her. > Maybe though there is more going on with her mentally that she does > not share. She does not want to talk about anything with ocd she > only wants me to answer her worries. seems more and more > confused about if the worry is ocd or not. Some worries could be a > real " worry " but I feel her need to come to me means it is ocd. She > will continue to worry about " whatever " until I say it is ok, don't > worry about it. > > Our doctor is not an ocd specialist. He seems real easy going. We > had to ask to come more often. We were only going once a month. > > Is taking the med. as bad as I am making it?? The dr. did say by > taking the med. it may help her to work on things better. I feel > this is 99% my choice because she comes to me 99% of the time. I do > realize is including me in the ocd but I don't know how to " get > out " . We do label the worries as ocd but that is all she will say. > > Sorry for going on and on but I feel so helpless. I just want all > this to go away...as I am sure we all feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2001 Report Share Posted August 18, 2001 Hi Lynda, I am certainly no expert - this is all still so new to me as well...but....when our then-5 yo son Ben was diagnosed with OCD back in March, we were totally clueless as to what that really meant. All we knew was that he continued to ask the reassurance questions and we continued to NOT understand at all why he was asking. By the time we began to educate ourselves (we had been asking and waiting to get info from his therapist - to no avail) Ben was already on SSRI and we did notice some improvements. We have been doing CBT on our own with Ben this summer and his psychiatrist has very slowly increased his dosage based on our observations. I don't know if this is helpful, but what we found, was that as Ben adjusted to the new, but still too low dosage of Zoloft, he would at first experience some mild side effects, then show some improvement (some people see some initial exacerbation of OCD symptoms) at which time, the CBT worked at it's best. Ben's reassurance seeking would diminish, and when he did ask a question, I could ask him " what does Ben's brain think? Who's in charge? Wouldn't you rather keep playing than waste your time listening to OCD fears? " and he'd jump on the band wagon and " boss it back " . As he would acclimate to the low dosage, though, I could tell that he was losing his resolve to fight back, the questions would increase, he would appear discouraged and mechanical in the way he was asking - like he was too tired to ask the question, but had no energy to fight the compusion either. An increase in meds, has brought him again to a level where he can fight the OCD. Our hopes now are that with a proffessional CB therapist, we can have a more organized " battle plan " and tackle it more aggressively. We didn't want to put Ben on meds either, but they have helped - and the best benefit is seeing that he is not so out-of-control-tormented by the OCD. He feels a measure of control which has helped him not feel so down and depressed about the OCD. I don't know how in the world to encourage a child to take meds if they are unwilling - unless if explaining what it is that the meds do, biologically, can help. Good luck - I hope can be convinced to give them a try - especially while she's still young - as I get the impression from what I've read here that once adolesence hits, it will be even tougher...... Terry in NY > Hi All, > > I haven't posted in a while but I read the groups post daily. I am > at a lose as to what to do. > > My daughter, 8yr., was dx with ocd in June. We started seeing > a doctor then. At that point her ocd seemed manageable. She was not > put on meds and we started cbt. Her main ocd was worries about > scratching thing/hurting things. (not people, just " things " ) That > ocd was quickly taken care of. (it sometimes still comes up but she > can mostly take care of it) Her compulsion part of ocd is coming to > me to say " is it ok, did I scratch it, hurt it " ...on and on. It > seems like she is only getting worse more and more worries pop up > daily. Last dr. appt. we talked about meds. ( was very upset > and says she will not take them) I feel it is a hard choice because > is still happy and ocd does not seem to interfere with her. > Maybe though there is more going on with her mentally that she does > not share. She does not want to talk about anything with ocd she > only wants me to answer her worries. seems more and more > confused about if the worry is ocd or not. Some worries could be a > real " worry " but I feel her need to come to me means it is ocd. She > will continue to worry about " whatever " until I say it is ok, don't > worry about it. > > Our doctor is not an ocd specialist. He seems real easy going. We > had to ask to come more often. We were only going once a month. > > Is taking the med. as bad as I am making it?? The dr. did say by > taking the med. it may help her to work on things better. I feel > this is 99% my choice because she comes to me 99% of the time. I do > realize is including me in the ocd but I don't know how to " get > out " . We do label the worries as ocd but that is all she will say. > > Sorry for going on and on but I feel so helpless. I just want all > this to go away...as I am sure we all feel. > > Thanks for being here. Hugs to all, > Lynda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2001 Report Share Posted August 19, 2001 Lynda, Terry is right. When adolescence hits, it's a crap shoot. Not only are you fighting OCD, but teenage rebellion as well. (15 yo) has been 100% against taking meds since his 1st and only experience with Paxil. He now says that his doesn't want a FAKE recovery. GEEZ! I'd welcome any kind of recovery!!!! But that is part of his scrupulosity, so if your daughter doesn't have those issues, maybe it will be easier. Hang in there. Tell her about strep throat (or another illness) and the need to use an antibiotic. It didn't help us, but you never know!! ;-) Melinda S. Dallas > > Hi All, > > > > I haven't posted in a while but I read the groups post daily. I am > > at a lose as to what to do. > > > > My daughter, 8yr., was dx with ocd in June. We started > seeing > > a doctor then. At that point her ocd seemed manageable. She was > not > > put on meds and we started cbt. Her main ocd was worries about > > scratching thing/hurting things. (not people, just " things " ) That > > ocd was quickly taken care of. (it sometimes still comes up but > she > > can mostly take care of it) Her compulsion part of ocd is coming > to > > me to say " is it ok, did I scratch it, hurt it " ...on and on. It > > seems like she is only getting worse more and more worries pop up > > daily. Last dr. appt. we talked about meds. ( was very upset > > and says she will not take them) I feel it is a hard choice > because > > is still happy and ocd does not seem to interfere with her. > > Maybe though there is more going on with her mentally that she does > > not share. She does not want to talk about anything with ocd she > > only wants me to answer her worries. seems more and more > > confused about if the worry is ocd or not. Some worries could be a > > real " worry " but I feel her need to come to me means it is ocd. > She > > will continue to worry about " whatever " until I say it is ok, > don't > > worry about it. > > > > Our doctor is not an ocd specialist. He seems real easy going. We > > had to ask to come more often. We were only going once a month. > > > > Is taking the med. as bad as I am making it?? The dr. did say by > > taking the med. it may help her to work on things better. I feel > > this is 99% my choice because she comes to me 99% of the time. I > do > > realize is including me in the ocd but I don't know how > to " get > > out " . We do label the worries as ocd but that is all she will > say. > > > > Sorry for going on and on but I feel so helpless. I just want all > > this to go away...as I am sure we all feel. > > > > Thanks for being here. Hugs to all, > > Lynda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2001 Report Share Posted August 19, 2001 Hi Lynda: Thanks for writing about and her reassurance seeking compulsions. I am sure all of us with kids with this very common OCD symptom have been caught up in providing reassurance. This is good parenting for most kids. Unfortunately we have to learn the incredibly painful lesson that what works well for other kids makes our OCD kids even sicker. It can be very difficult to find a doc who knows how to treat OCD effectively with CBT. If 's doc is not teaching you how to extract yourself from her OCD, it would be best for you to find a doc who can help you with this. Treating children as young as possible seems to offer the best outcome. Dr. Foa told me that they find that children treated effectively with E & RP do not tend to relapse as adults do. This has certainly been the case for my son Steve. When his meds poop out his depression returns gangbusters, but not his OCD. A lot of OCD suffering is not apparent to the outsider. Even though young, our kids become pretty expert at hiding embarrassing OCD symptoms from others. Refusing meds is also a very common response. Sometimes our kids' thinking about meds is part of contamination OCD, or they may have other fears about them. Some parents have done well encouraging their kids to take meds by starting them on mini m & ms. Sometimes our kids worry about swallowing and choking, when they try the liquid preparations which taste pretty yucky from what I have read, they are more willing to take meds in pill or capsule form. The first line treatment for kids with mild or moderate OCD according to the Expert Consensus Guildelines is exposure and response prevention (E & RP) only. Depending on what comorbid disorders are also present, it may be necessary to use medication to take the edge of OCD symptoms so our kids can do the hard work of E & RP. Please know there is a lot of hope for 's recovery. It is not usually easy, but it is amazing how our kids can learn to manage their OCD symptoms and get most of their lives back. Take care, aloha, Kathy (h) kathyh@... :43 AM 08/18/2001 -0000, you wrote: >Hi All, > >I haven't posted in a while but I read the groups post daily. I am >at a lose as to what to do. > >My daughter, 8yr., was dx with ocd in June. We started seeing >a doctor then. At that point her ocd seemed manageable. She was not >put on meds and we started cbt. Her main ocd was worries about >scratching thing/hurting things. (not people, just " things " ) That >ocd was quickly taken care of. (it sometimes still comes up but she >can mostly take care of it) Her compulsion part of ocd is coming to >me to say " is it ok, did I scratch it, hurt it " ...on and on. It >seems like she is only getting worse more and more worries pop up >daily. Last dr. appt. we talked about meds. ( was very upset >and says she will not take them) I feel it is a hard choice because > is still happy and ocd does not seem to interfere with her. >Maybe though there is more going on with her mentally that she does >not share. She does not want to talk about anything with ocd she >only wants me to answer her worries. seems more and more >confused about if the worry is ocd or not. Some worries could be a >real " worry " but I feel her need to come to me means it is ocd. She >will continue to worry about " whatever " until I say it is ok, don't >worry about it. > >Our doctor is not an ocd specialist. He seems real easy going. We >had to ask to come more often. We were only going once a month. > >Is taking the med. as bad as I am making it?? The dr. did say by >taking the med. it may help her to work on things better. I feel >this is 99% my choice because she comes to me 99% of the time. I do >realize is including me in the ocd but I don't know how to " get >out " . We do label the worries as ocd but that is all she will say. > >Sorry for going on and on but I feel so helpless. I just want all >this to go away...as I am sure we all feel. > >Thanks for being here. Hugs to all, >Lynda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2002 Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 Jana, remember that musclemedia is no longer connected with Bill and BFL. So you will find info there that is contradictory to this program. I firmly believe that going for a balance of protein and carb is the way to go. AND the more veggies you add, the better, not just 2 servings!! That is not to say that other ways won't be successful. I was reading in Muscle and Fitness that one of the top women's fitness competitors does THREE hours of cardio every day!!!!! No thanks, give me the 20 minute solution any day!! So if you have chosen BFL, stay with it, and only tweak once you have stalled and you have good, educated reasons to believe making a change would help. Lynda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2002 Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 Jana; The best nutrition you can do on your program will be WHOLE FOODS fresh fruits, veggies, whole grains, lean meats, poultry, and fish. The shakes [Myoplex and bars should be used for convience or emergencay purposes only IMHO]. Alot of us opt for the protein powders to do an after workout shake. This works out good for several reasons~ 1]You can adjust the amount of protein you need easily enough 2]you can add your own carbs [like fruits] or fresh juices to make up you own shake to meet your own needs. 3]They aren't as thick as the Myoplex shakes 4]And they don't cost as much either I drink an after workout shake on my weight training days, they digest faster which gets the nutrition to your muscles faster to help repair them quicker. So the best thing you can do for your body is to make wise choices when it comes to foods, and stay within your portion sizes and don't go completely crazy on free days. Joann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2002 Report Share Posted October 20, 2002 > 2.) As I understand Andy's protocol, given the half life reasoning > of the ALA, you should supplement every 3 hrs. I am wondering what > happens when a molecule of ala grabs some mercury and it's 3 hour > life is 5 minutes from over. When the ala's life is over, does it > just drop the mercury wherever it is, or does it " die " holding on to > the mercury and make the mercury unable to attach to the body again > and be eliminated? This is an average life for the ALA molecules. Some live longer, some don't make it that long. That is what the term " half life " refers to - half of them last that long, half don't. So nothing magic happens at exactly 3.0000000 hours. Andy . .. . . . . . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2002 Report Share Posted October 21, 2002 Hi Andy, Sorry I still didn't understand. Are you saying ALA doesn't just get washed out of the body as Moira seemed to think? So what happens at the end of the molecules life? Does it also have a half life in a solution with water or mixed up with vitamins? I would very much appreciate clarification. Thank you Dagmar. [ ] Re: confusion > 2.) As I understand Andy's protocol, given the half life reasoning > of the ALA, you should supplement every 3 hrs. I am wondering what > happens when a molecule of ala grabs some mercury and it's 3 hour > life is 5 minutes from over. When the ala's life is over, does it > just drop the mercury wherever it is, or does it " die " holding on to > the mercury and make the mercury unable to attach to the body again > and be eliminated? This is an average life for the ALA molecules. Some live longer, some don't make it that long. That is what the term " half life " refers to - half of them last that long, half don't. So nothing magic happens at exactly 3.0000000 hours. Andy . .. . . . . . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2002 Report Share Posted October 21, 2002 > Sorry I still didn't understand. Are you saying ALA doesn't just get washed out of the body as Moira seemed to think? It is metabolized to inactive compounds, like DMSA, though the first metabolite is actually also an active chelator. It is not excreted unchanged like DMPS or EDTA. >So what happens at the end of the molecules life? Does it also have a half life in a solution with water or mixed up with vitamins? No. It lasts a long time there. Andy . . .. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2002 Report Share Posted October 21, 2002 > Anyways, my son was born Dec 1992, and has all shots and > immunizations. Has anybody had any great success detoxing a child > like mine. I know everybody gets better, but if mercury was present > in utero and poisioning was not after birth such as from > vaccinations only, can my son get better if mercury interfeared from > day one in development? > The neurologist said my son has regressive autism, he used to have > some language but not normal but useful in some ways My son does NOT have " regressive autism " . He has a dx of Kanner's autism, meaning his case is " genetic " , he was always this way, from birth. With many interventions, he now no longer qualifies as autistic, altho not yet age appropriate. It is still too early for me to be able to know what will be his final outcome, but it does appear he will be able to live independently when he is grown. He is 6-1/2 years old, and acts basically like a 3yo child. You can read his story here, if you are interested. http://www.autismchannel.net/dana/myson.htm Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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