Re: resources for difficult prenatal dx and stillbirth (was Fw: Assistance and prayers please)

June 14, 2012

I would like to add andra's House here in Kansas City. It was founded by a good friend of ours and her work is exceptional and inspired.http://www.alexandrashouse.com/

PennyOn Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 7:33 PM, M. Brown <kmnbrown@...> wrote:

, wishing you the best and most appropriate experiences as you face the events and outcomes of your recent experience. I am empathizing with you.Thanks for sharing Be Not Afraid, Kathy. That is one I had not come across yet. Should you ever be in a position to counsel or work with families facing fatal prenatal diagnoses or experiencing stillbirth, below are other resources that can be useful. I want to say all, but can confidently say most, of these offer services free of charge. In alpha order:

- M.I.S.S. Foundation, www.missfoundation.org- Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep, www.nowilaymedowntosleep.org (International resources too)

- Still Birthday, stillbirthday.org

- String of Pearls, stringofpearlsonline.orgAnd for the families expecting anencephalic babies, www.anencephalie-info.org appears to have very good and accurate information.

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 8:45 PM, Kathy Schmugge <famlifecor@...> wrote:

If possible, please refer these parents to Be Not Afraid. They are a peer ministry outreach for parents who want to carry to term. http://benotafraid.net/ There is complicated grief involved with these poor prenatal diagnosis when the parents have a hand in decision to terminate the life of their child. Parents who carry to term, handle the loss of their child better. These parents need to know that!

[...]

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 6:45 PM, Sandrock <cnmnancy@...> wrote:

I need some assistance and prayers please. I work as an RN in L & D a few days a week, and am frequently in charge. A couple of weeks ago a physician sent in a pt. for an elective termination at 31 weeks due to anencephaly. Everyone knows I won't do that, and the staff working that night initially refused as well. Behind the scenes, phone calls and texts ensued and certain staff told me they didn't want to get in trouble so volunteered. Then the phone call accusing me of " intimidating " the other staff into refusing, and also accusing me of blatantly lying about their unwillingness to participate. I met with the manager after writing a risk report, and explained they had changed their mind. Obviously this is not the end as now I am being called higher up...

The other staff that night were also " Catholic " , and so my stance is also being questioned. Are there any official church statements I can print out that address this? I am on limited internet and printing right now so unable to search and print. Hopefully I will have access later.

Leaving this position is not an option as I only have very part time income as a midwife due to my NFP only stance.Thanks Sandrock, RNC-OB, APRN-CNM, MSNSent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

-- toLabor's Doula Training Workshop is coming to Santa Fe! Ask me about it.November 9-11, 2012The Organization of Labor Assistants for Birth Options & Resources

Empowering Families, Honoring Birth, Changing Lives.

There is Room for Compassion in Every Birth. It is a Civil Right. It is a Human Right.

Join the Community of Change.

-- “A law is laid upon the preacher to practice what he preaches. " ~ St. (the Great)

June 14, 2012

:

i will pray for you.

these issues always very emotional.

this is mostly because while you calmly and dispassionately state your position

they are upset with themselves and taking it out on you

the greatest emotional driver is inside the minds of those who are doing abortion

but feel guilty about it, feel for some reason they also need to do it

if it were a 'termination', why should that be done in labor and delivery?

labor and delivery is a place setup to deliver babies rapidly and safely if necessary

and most importantly to be able to section patients in emergencies

I don't think you'd section a termination if you got into trouble

nor do i think you would do any treatment for fetal indication

So you might suggest a termination has no place in labor and deliveryDoes the patient undergoing termination

really want to listen to screaming babies?

For those reasons, terminations are often done on a gyn floor, or somewhere where patients are spared screaming babies etc

it is also universally unpopular with nursing staff in labor and delivery

A unit which is at peace become roiled with dissention if someone brings a disruptive situation to the unit

I don't think they would try that in the NICU

The NICU nurses would usually not stand for it, it would evoke open revolt

You are not at fault for believing as you do

What you believe is standard for L+D nurses

The upset comes from bringing an inappropriate case to the unit

How would the nurses feel if a trauma patient with multiple organ failure was brought to the unit

The nurses would be uncomfortable because the case is inappropriate, the nurses lack relevant training, etc.

If a nurse worked in an abortion clinic, doing third trimester abortions, she might have relevant training and experience

PJB

From: sonoharry@...Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:44:11 -0500Subject: Re: resources for difficult prenatal dx and stillbirth (was Fw: Assistance and prayers please)

I would like to add andra's House here in Kansas City. It was founded by a good friend of ours and her work is exceptional and inspired.http://www.alexandrashouse.com/Penny

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 7:33 PM, M. Brown <kmnbrown@...> wrote:

, wishing you the best and most appropriate experiences as you face the events and outcomes of your recent experience. I am empathizing with you.Thanks for sharing Be Not Afraid, Kathy. That is one I had not come across yet. Should you ever be in a position to counsel or work with families facing fatal prenatal diagnoses or experiencing stillbirth, below are other resources that can be useful. I want to say all, but can confidently say most, of these offer services free of charge. In alpha order:- M.I.S.S. Foundation, www.missfoundation.org- Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep, www.nowilaymedowntosleep.org (International resources too)- Still Birthday, stillbirthday.org- String of Pearls, stringofpearlsonline.orgAnd for the families expecting anencephalic babies, www.anencephalie-info.org appears to have very good and accurate information.

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 8:45 PM, Kathy Schmugge <famlifecor@...> wrote:

If possible, please refer these parents to Be Not Afraid. They are a peer ministry outreach for parents who want to carry to term. http://benotafraid.net/ There is complicated grief involved with these poor prenatal diagnosis when the parents have a hand in decision to terminate the life of their child. Parents who carry to term, handle the loss of their child better. These parents need to know that!

[...]

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 6:45 PM, Sandrock <cnmnancy@...> wrote:

I need some assistance and prayers please. I work as an RN in L & D a few days a week, and am frequently in charge. A couple of weeks ago a physician sent in a pt. for an elective termination at 31 weeks due to anencephaly. Everyone knows I won't do that, and the staff working that night initially refused as well. Behind the scenes, phone calls and texts ensued and certain staff told me they didn't want to get in trouble so volunteered. Then the phone call accusing me of "intimidating" the other staff into refusing, and also accusing me of blatantly lying about their unwillingness to participate. I met with the manager after writing a risk report, and explained they had changed their mind. Obviously this is not the end as now I am being called higher up...

The other staff that night were also "Catholic", and so my stance is also being questioned. Are there any official church statements I can print out that address this? I am on limited internet and printing right now so unable to search and print. Hopefully I will have access later.Leaving this position is not an option as I only have very part time income as a midwife due to my NFP only stance.Thanks Sandrock, RNC-OB, APRN-CNM, MSN

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

-- toLabor's Doula Training Workshop is coming to Santa Fe! Ask me about it.November 9-11, 2012

The Organization of Labor Assistants for Birth Options & Resources

Empowering Families, Honoring Birth, Changing Lives.There is Room for Compassion in Every Birth. It is a Civil Right. It is a Human Right.Join the Community of Change.

-- “A law is laid upon the preacher to practice what he preaches." ~ St. (the Great)

June 14, 2012

,In addition to the advice you have received from others the following are some paragraphs from Pope II's Gospel of Life. There are many more in that encyclical letter. They apply to all babies in the womb.

and Penny, thank you for sharing those good resources with us.With prayers for you, Fr.

53. " Human life is sacred because from its beginning it involves 'the creative action of God', and it remains forever in a special relationship with the Creator, who is its sole end. God alone is the Lord of life from its beginning until its end: no one can, in any circumstance, claim for himself the right to destroy directly an innocent human being " .41 With these words the Instruction Donum Vitae sets forth the central content of God's revelation on the sacredness and inviolability of human life.

Sacred Scripture in fact presents the precept " You shall not kill " as a divine commandment (Ex 20:13; Dt 5:17). As I have already emphasized, this commandment is found in the Deca- logue, at the heart of the Covenant which the Lord makes with his chosen people; but it was already contained in the original covenant between God and humanity after the purifying punishment of the Flood, caused by the spread of sin and violence (cf. Gen 9:5-6).

God proclaims that he is absolute Lord of the life of man, who is formed in his image and likeness (cf. Gen 1:26-28). Human life is thus given a sacred and inviolable character, which reflects the inviolability of the Creator himself. Precisely for this reason God will severely judge every violation of the commandment " You shall not kill " , the commandment which is at the basis of all life together in society. He is the " goel " , the defender of the innocent (cf. Gen 4:9-15; Is 41:14; Jer 50:34; Ps 19:14). God thus shows that he does not delight in the death of the living (cf. Wis 1:13). Only Satan can delight therein: for through his envy death entered the world (cf. Wis 2:24). He who is " a murderer from the beginning " , is also " a liar and the father of lies " (Jn 8:44). By deceiving man he leads him to projects of sin and death, making them appear as goals and fruits of life.

54. As explicitly formulated, the precept " You shall not kill " is strongly negative: it indicates the extreme limit which can never be exceeded. Implicitly, however, it encourages a positive attitude of absolute respect for life; it leads to the promotion of life and to progress along the way of a love which gives, receives and serves. The people of the Covenant, although slowly and with some contradictions, progressively matured in this way of thinking, and thus prepared for the great proclamation of Jesus that the commandment to love one's neighbour is like the commandment to love God; " on these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets " (cf. Mt 22:36-40). Saint emphasizes that " the commandment ... you shall not kill ... and any other commandment, are summed up in this phrase: ?You shall love your neighbour as yourself' " (Rom 13:9; cf. Gal 5:14). Taken up and brought to fulfilment in the New Law, the commandment " You shall not kill " stands as an indispensable condition for being able " to enter life " (cf. Mt 19:16-19). In this same perspective, the words of the Apostle have a categorical ring: " Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him " (1 Jn 3:15).

From the beginning, the living Tradition of the Church-as shown by the Didache, the most ancient non-biblical Christian writing-categorically repeated the commandment " You shall not kill " : " There are two ways, a way of life and a way of death; there is a great difference between them... In accordance with the precept of the teaching: you shall not kill ... you shall not put a child to death by abortion nor kill it once it is born ... The way of death is this: ... they show no compassion for the poor, they do not suffer with the suffering, they do not acknowledge their Creator, they kill their children and by abortion cause God's creatures to perish; they drive away the needy, oppress the suffering, they are advocates of the rich and unjust judges of the poor; they are filled with every sin. May you be able to stay ever apart, o children, from all these sins! " . 42

As time passed, the Church's Tradition has always consistently taught the absolute and unchanging value of the commandment " You shall not kill " . It is a known fact that in the first centuries, murder was put among the three most serious sins-along with apostasy and adultery-and required a particularly heavy and lengthy public penance before the repentant murderer could be granted forgiveness and readmission to the ecclesial community.

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 6:08 PM, paddy jim baggot <pjbaggot@...> wrote: