Vit C

[Guest guest]

Tom et al,

You are not in possession of the facts. What yo are in possession

of, at it's mni disrespect intended, is decades of hokum and PR

misguidance from the FDA. While it is absolutelt true that per

FDA 'regulatrions', the terms are interchangeable; all's one need to

is read up on Albert Szent-Gyorgi's work. Yo will find that that

the effects he found in paprika, could NOT be reproduced by the

isolated compond. But teh word had alreday gotten out that he

had 'discoved' the exact single molecule, and the press at the time

ran with it. He tried to correct the scientific media, but the

damage had already been done. In those days, communication was

quite slow and tedious, just like my having to correct people who

insist they know the facts.

Yes, I know that EVERY company sells their asc. acid as Vit C.

Oh well, life sucks, then you die. It's all based on a lie. Man

cannot manufacture ral Vit C, but Hoffman-LaRoche can make the

synthetic shitty stiff for pennies on the ton. The synthetic stuff

has definite anti histiminic effece, but it NOT slide into the

thousansds of biochemic niches, where Vit C is called for. These

are facts, and have NOTHING to do with my opinion.

Yes the acs. acid part of real VC molecule is the same. But

that's the equivalent of saying that if ytou have a tire from a

Buick, then you also have an entire Rolls. The tire part is

identical, but it's all tye oter good stuff, which separates the

natural world from the laboratory versions.

Now please, suck up the biochemistry lesson, and get rid of all

the old stinkin thinkin.

> > I think it was who said ascorbic acid isn't vit C. So,

what is? And what should I look for?

> > >

>

[Guest guest]

There are a smal handful of companies who produce real food form Vit

C, concentrated form org. or cert. org. foods which are Vit. C rich.

SCott

>

> I think it was who said ascorbic acid isn't vit C. So, what

is? And what should I look for?

> > <<<<<<<<<<<<

>

>

> ----------

>

> No virus found in this outgoing message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 - Release Date:

4/10/2006

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

and those are???

Re: vit C

There are a smal handful of companies who produce real food form Vit

C, concentrated form org. or cert. org. foods which are Vit. C rich.

SCott

>

> I think it was who said ascorbic acid isn't vit C. So, what

is? And what should I look for?

> > <<<<<<<<<<<<

>

>

> ----------

>

> No virus found in this outgoing message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 - Release Date:

4/10/2006

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Well, you named Albert Szent-Gyorgi so you clearly know more than the

average person about vitamin C. My question, if you want to talk

biochemistry, is what is the name of the in vivo, biosynthesized form of

vitamin C to which you refer? Are you talking enantiomers here? Only the

L-enantiomer has the activity; the mirror image molecule does not.

However, ascorbic acid is produced commercially by a complicated process

that involves one or two steps where bacteria synthesize an

intermediate, and they must produce molecules with the right optical

activity, because only L-ascorbic acid can be sold as ascorbic acid. And

if that's not biosynthesis I don't know what is. By far this is the

cheapest method, and it's still not cheap so I don't think vitamin C

manufacturers are rolling in the dough like big pharma companies are.

Plus most vitamin C is coming from Asia these days since they're

underselling the western manufacturers.

As far as paprika and any of its putative effects goes, how do we know

that the additional effects paprika has that ascorbic acid doesn't are

due to another form of vitamin C, rather than just something else

present in paprika?

Tom

docscotte wrote:

> Tom et al,

> You are not in possession of the facts. What yo are in possession

> of, at it's mni disrespect intended, is decades of hokum and PR

> misguidance from the FDA. While it is absolutelt true that per

> FDA 'regulatrions', the terms are interchangeable; all's one need to

> is read up on Albert Szent-Gyorgi's work. Yo will find that that

> the effects he found in paprika, could NOT be reproduced by the

> isolated compond. But teh word had alreday gotten out that he

> had 'discoved' the exact single molecule, and the press at the time

> ran with it. He tried to correct the scientific media, but the

> damage had already been done. In those days, communication was

> quite slow and tedious, just like my having to correct people who

> insist they know the facts.

> Yes, I know that EVERY company sells their asc. acid as Vit C.

> Oh well, life sucks, then you die. It's all based on a lie. Man

> cannot manufacture ral Vit C, but Hoffman-LaRoche can make the

> synthetic shitty stiff for pennies on the ton. The synthetic stuff

> has definite anti histiminic effece, but it NOT slide into the

> thousansds of biochemic niches, where Vit C is called for. These

> are facts, and have NOTHING to do with my opinion.

> Yes the acs. acid part of real VC molecule is the same. But

> that's the equivalent of saying that if ytou have a tire from a

> Buick, then you also have an entire Rolls. The tire part is

> identical, but it's all tye oter good stuff, which separates the

> natural world from the laboratory versions.

> Now please, suck up the biochemistry lesson, and get rid of all

> the old stinkin thinkin.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh for crying out loud, what do want, to whip out and and take a out

a ruler? Im not looking for a catfight. So bacteria synthesize

it, so what. Your 'logic argument' doesn't wash.

As far as cheap, some retail suppliers sell Asc acid powder

really, really cheaply. SO the cost of manufacturing has got to be,

by logical extension, absurdly inexpensive.

Paprika, and " other forms " : Oh for crying out loud, do I need to

paint a picture here? Vit C contains about 5-7 different flavinoids

(quercitin, citrin, rutin, hesperidin, etc); it contains a copper

based enzymatic core called tyrosinase. While different plants have

different ratios of the flavinoids, depending on their particulat

needs, fundamentally the architecture of the food based Vit. C

molecule is the same, source to source.

> > Tom et al,

> > You are not in possession of the facts. What yo are in

possession

> > of, at it's mni disrespect intended, is decades of hokum and PR

> > misguidance from the FDA. While it is absolutelt true that per

> > FDA 'regulatrions', the terms are interchangeable; all's one

need to

> > is read up on Albert Szent-Gyorgi's work. Yo will find that

that

> > the effects he found in paprika, could NOT be reproduced by the

> > isolated compond. But teh word had alreday gotten out that he

> > had 'discoved' the exact single molecule, and the press at the

time

> > ran with it. He tried to correct the scientific media, but the

> > damage had already been done. In those days, communication was

> > quite slow and tedious, just like my having to correct people

who

> > insist they know the facts.

> > Yes, I know that EVERY company sells their asc. acid as Vit

C.

> > Oh well, life sucks, then you die. It's all based on a lie.

Man

> > cannot manufacture ral Vit C, but Hoffman-LaRoche can make the

> > synthetic shitty stiff for pennies on the ton. The synthetic

stuff

> > has definite anti histiminic effece, but it NOT slide into the

> > thousansds of biochemic niches, where Vit C is called for.

These

> > are facts, and have NOTHING to do with my opinion.

> > Yes the acs. acid part of real VC molecule is the same. But

> > that's the equivalent of saying that if ytou have a tire from a

> > Buick, then you also have an entire Rolls. The tire part is

> > identical, but it's all tye oter good stuff, which separates the

> > natural world from the laboratory versions.

> > Now please, suck up the biochemistry lesson, and get rid of

all

> > the old stinkin thinkin.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

Catfight? No, I want civilized discussion backed up by at least a few

references.

Bioflavonoids such as quercitin, citrin, rutin, and hesperidin are not

vitamin C. They are found in some plants that are high in C but they are

completely separate from vitamin C. Further, if we're going to name-drop

here, Linus ing repeatedly stated (and provided citations) that

vitamin C + bioflavonoids in numerous studies did not confer any greater

effects over vitamin C alone. I believe there are studies that show

otherwise but nonetheless bioflavonoids work synergistically with

vitamin C at best. They are not vitamin C, just as vitamin E is not

vitamin C.

I don't know anything about copper and tyrosinase's relation to vitamin

C but if you're going to make radical claims it would be nice if you

would provide some references (and they don't have to be peer-reviewed

papers, but those are the best). I'm not going to believe you just

because you say so, and certainly not because you get worked up when I

challenge your facts.

Tom

docscotte wrote:

> Oh for crying out loud, what do want, to whip out and and take a out

> a ruler? Im not looking for a catfight. So bacteria synthesize

> it, so what. Your 'logic argument' doesn't wash.

> As far as cheap, some retail suppliers sell Asc acid powder

> really, really cheaply. SO the cost of manufacturing has got to be,

> by logical extension, absurdly inexpensive.

> Paprika, and " other forms " : Oh for crying out loud, do I need to

> paint a picture here? Vit C contains about 5-7 different flavinoids

> (quercitin, citrin, rutin, hesperidin, etc); it contains a copper

> based enzymatic core called tyrosinase. While different plants have

> different ratios of the flavinoids, depending on their particulat

> needs, fundamentally the architecture of the food based Vit. C

> molecule is the same, source to source.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry Tom, it's not going to happen the way you want it.

Yo have my blessing to just continue to do what you're doing. I

have much bigger issues to deal with in my life.

peace and Long Life,

> > Oh for crying out loud, what do want, to whip out and and take a

out

> > a ruler? Im not looking for a catfight. So bacteria

synthesize

> > it, so what. Your 'logic argument' doesn't wash.

> > As far as cheap, some retail suppliers sell Asc acid powder

> > really, really cheaply. SO the cost of manufacturing has got to

be,

> > by logical extension, absurdly inexpensive.

> > Paprika, and " other forms " : Oh for crying out loud, do I

need to

> > paint a picture here? Vit C contains about 5-7 different

flavinoids

> > (quercitin, citrin, rutin, hesperidin, etc); it contains a

copper

> > based enzymatic core called tyrosinase. While different plants

have

> > different ratios of the flavinoids, depending on their

particulat

> > needs, fundamentally the architecture of the food based Vit. C

> > molecule is the same, source to source.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Will try to answer tomorrow for you;

1.First Organics

2.Sonne's

3.SPL

4.Right Foods

Just to name (4)off the top of my head.....

SCott

> >

> > I think it was who said ascorbic acid isn't vit C. So,

what

> is? And what should I look for?

> > > <<<<<<<<<<<<

> >

> >

> > ----------

> >

> > No virus found in this outgoing message.

> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 - Release Date:

> 4/10/2006

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

yes..but they only offer a tiny amount of Vit C 50 mg or so...how many oranges

and kiwi fruit can you put in a pill....and yes we hear the argument that it is

10x more potent and you only need a small amount..but there is no science behind

these claims...its just marketing hype..

I take 1.5 g Vit C plus rosehip extract daily...made by solgar...

docscotte <docscotte@...> wrote:

Will try to answer tomorrow for you;

1.First Organics

2.Sonne's

3.SPL

4.Right Foods

Just to name (4)off the top of my head.....

SCott

> >

> > I think it was who said ascorbic acid isn't vit C. So,

what

> is? And what should I look for?

> > > <<<<<<<<<<<<

> >

> >

> > ----------

> >

> > No virus found in this outgoing message.

> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 - Release Date:

> 4/10/2006

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

,

Would you mind sharing what they are?

--- In , " docscotte " <docscotte@...>

wrote:

>

> There are a smal handful of companies who produce real food form Vit

> C, concentrated form org. or cert. org. foods which are Vit. C rich.

> SCott

>

>

[Guest guest]

Why not use acerola powder?

-Lana

[Guest guest]

Which ascorbic acid is good? I don't want to waste my money.

On Apr 12, 2006, at 8:07 PM, docscotte wrote:

> Yes, I know that EVERY company sells their asc. acid as Vit C.

Parashis

artpages@...

zine:

artpagesonline.com

portfolio:

http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html

[Guest guest]

From Sally and 's book Eat Fat Lose Fat, they recommend taking

acerola powder or amla-c, which apparently are powdered forms of a

plant that has natural vit. c. I found acerola tablets, but they had

a lot of additives, then I found amla-c powder which only has

spirulina added, so I got that. I'm hoping it is okay!

Ann

> >

> > I think it was who said ascorbic acid isn't vit C. So, what

> is? And what should I look for?

> > > <<<<<<<<<<<<

> >

> >

> > ----------

> >

> > No virus found in this outgoing message.

> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 - Release Date:

> 4/10/2006

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

>

> Bioflavonoids such as quercitin, citrin, rutin, and hesperidin are

> not vitamin C. They are found in some plants that are high in C but

> they arecompletely separate from vitamin C. Further, if we're going

> to name-drop here, Linus ing repeatedly stated (and provided

> citations) that vitamin C + bioflavonoids in numerous studies did

> not confer any greater effects over vitamin C alone. I believe there

> are studies that show otherwise but nonetheless bioflavonoids work

> synergistically with vitamin C at best. They are not vitamin C, just

> as vitamin E is not vitamin C.

>

Dr Tom Cowan with WAPF says:

" Many take some form of vitamin C supplementation, either all the time

or when they feel ill. These people are often surprised to hear me say

that, not only are they not doing themselves any good, they may

actually be causing harm by taking the usual forms of vitamin C.

Ascorbic acid, often erroneously called vitamin C, is a potent natural

preservative found in small amounts in plants and in some animal

tissues. It is an essential nutrient for humans, as we are unable to

synthesize vitamin C on our own. Ascorbic acid is always found in

nature as an organic mixture, which includes such things as magnesium,

manganese, bioflavonoid, rutin and many other organic compounds. In

order to be effective in us it must have all these other cofactors

present, not just the ascorbic acid. Most vitamin C products, with

very few exceptions, strip the ascorbic acid part of the complex and

call this vitamin C. It is not; it is only ascorbic acid, actually the

preservative part of the vitamin C complex. This ascorbic acid is then

given in enormous quantities, far more than is ever found in natural

food, and far more than our bodies can safely use. Not only can we not

use these huge quantities of ascorbic acid, but our bodies also are

forced to call on its own reserves to join with this ascorbic acid.

This draws upon and eventually depletes our bodies of these other

vital nutrients that make up the vitamin C complex. " From:

http://www.fourfoldhealing.com/Medicines%20 & %20Supplements.htm

He doesn't provide any references but it sounds like his views are

very similar to Doc 's. Sounds like taking refined vitamin C is

a little like taking refined sugar - in the sense that it is missing

it's natural accompaniments. I've been taking refined vitamin C off

and on for years, but I'm not sure it's worth the trouble any more.

I'm beginning to think that eating plenty of foods rich in vitamin C

should be good enough.

[Guest guest]

I got Amla C+ also. There's too much information out there about

everything. I tend to go along with what Sally Fallon says because she

has done a lot of research and is moderate in all things.

On Apr 13, 2006, at 10:49 AM, annbekins wrote:

> From Sally and 's book Eat Fat Lose Fat, they recommend taking

> acerola powder or amla-c, which apparently are powdered forms of a

> plant that has natural vit. c. I found acerola tablets, but they had

> a lot of additives, then I found amla-c powder which only has

> spirulina added, so I got that. I'm hoping it is okay!

>

> Ann

Parashis

artpages@...

zine:

artpagesonline.com

portfolio:

http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html

[Guest guest]

I never said that thes bioflavinoids ARE (!!) Vit.C. However, they

are components of what in food biochemistry is AKA the Whole Vitamin

C Complex.

So, in that manner, one could stretch a grammatical point, and

state that they are, in fact, Vit C. It's a trick of grammar, but

in food ,they all coexist simultaneously (is that redundant?).

SCott

> > Oh for crying out loud, what do want, to whip out and and take a

out

> > a ruler? Im not looking for a catfight. So bacteria

synthesize

> > it, so what. Your 'logic argument' doesn't wash.

> > As far as cheap, some retail suppliers sell Asc acid powder

> > really, really cheaply. SO the cost of manufacturing has got to

be,

> > by logical extension, absurdly inexpensive.

> > Paprika, and " other forms " : Oh for crying out loud, do I

need to

> > paint a picture here? Vit C contains about 5-7 different

flavinoids

> > (quercitin, citrin, rutin, hesperidin, etc); it contains a

copper

> > based enzymatic core called tyrosinase. While different plants

have

> > different ratios of the flavinoids, depending on their

particulat

> > needs, fundamentally the architecture of the food based Vit. C

> > molecule is the same, source to source.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

UNless you are trying to dry up a runny nose, why do you want to use

asc. acid, anyway.

>

> > Yes, I know that EVERY company sells their asc. acid as Vit C.

> Parashis

> artpages@...

> zine:

> artpagesonline.com

>

> portfolio:

> http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html

>

[Guest guest]

Sonne's produces a V.C that a lot of patients ask for repeatedly.

Along w/other substances, I believe it has ascerola in it. Again,

Indian Gooseberry (Amalaki)is a time honoured herb, and is quite

synergistic with C; but is not a really good C source.

> > >

> > > I think it was who said ascorbic acid isn't vit C. So,

what

> > is? And what should I look for?

> > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<

> > >

> > >

> > > ----------

> > >

> > > No virus found in this outgoing message.

> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 - Release Date:

> > 4/10/2006

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

--- In , " docscotte " <docscotte@...>

wrote:

>

,

Can you direct me to a source of information--other than

yourself--that discusses this, ie. that amla is not the highest source

of vit c in the plant kingdom?

Thanks,

B.

> For a long time, I use Amla as my Vit C source, telling all that it

> was the highest know plant source of this. finally, me master

> herbalsirt dear friend brought to may attention that this a common

> misconception. Yes, it has some C, but mainly it acts to potentiate

> C activity...

[Guest guest]

--- In , " docscotte " <docscotte@...>

wrote:

>

> Sonne's produces a V.C that a lot of patients ask for repeatedly.

> Along w/other substances, I believe it has ascerola in it. Again,

> Indian Gooseberry (Amalaki)is a time honoured herb, and is quite

> synergistic with C; but is not a really good C source.

>

>

>

I've been taking sea salt and amalaki powder for adrenal support and

wondering if it was enough Vit C compared to a C supplement to be used

for this purpose. I've not been scientific about it at all- just 1/2

tsp of each one or more times a day. Any thoughts?

[Guest guest]

I will be happy to, I was figuring some one would ask, and ask yu

should. If I can dig out the source, I will pass it along.

SCott

> >

>

> ,

> Can you direct me to a source of information--other than

> yourself--that discusses this, ie. that amla is not the highest

source

> of vit c in the plant kingdom?

> Thanks,

> B.

>

> > For a long time, I use Amla as my Vit C source, telling all that

it

> > was the highest know plant source of this. finally, me master

> > herbalsirt dear friend brought to may attention that this a

common

> > misconception. Yes, it has some C, but mainly it acts to

potentiate

> > C activity...

>

[Guest guest]

I found the info on Amla. To you and all others on NN, please read

entite short article ( lots of pix!).

Go to: www.itmonline.org/arts/amla.htm

SCott

> > >

> >

> > ,

> > Can you direct me to a source of information--other than

> > yourself--that discusses this, ie. that amla is not the highest

> source

> > of vit c in the plant kingdom?

> > Thanks,

> > B.

> >

> > > For a long time, I use Amla as my Vit C source, telling all

that

> it

> > > was the highest know plant source of this. finally, me master

> > > herbalsirt dear friend brought to may attention that this a

> common

> > > misconception. Yes, it has some C, but mainly it acts to

> potentiate

> > > C activity...

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

thanks much, just what I was seeking.

B.

--- In , " docscotte " <docscotte@...>

wrote:

>

> I found the info on Amla. To you and all others on NN, please read

> entite short article ( lots of pix!).

> Go to: www.itmonline.org/arts/amla.htm

> SCott

[Guest guest]

On 4/14/06, docscotte <docscotte@...> wrote:

> Except for ascorbyl palmitate. VC is washed out, if it not recycled

> via reduced gluutatione, etc. None the less, XS is dumped.

I found a study a couple months ago that found ascorbate to cause

damage in the eye (retina, I think) if there wasn't enough glutathione

to regenerate it. Unfortunately, I just spent a few minutes searching

medline and can't find the study again.

This .pdf (you can right click and " save target as " if you want),

which I was just reading last night, discusses associations between

excess vitamin C supplementation and eye damage:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=U & start=7 & q=http://www.nutrioptom.com/abstracts/die\

taryrisk.pdf & e=9797

Interestingly, it mentions something about inhibiting copper as a

possible mechanism. After reading this thread, I wonder if that is a

result of the copper not being supplied as part of the C complex, and

the body having to draw on copper reserves to form C complex from the

vitamin C?

Chris

--

Dioxins in Animal Foods:

A Case For Vegetarianism?

Find Out the Truth:

http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxins/dioxins.html

[Guest guest]

What brand of C do you use?

Do you or anybody here remember what Jerry Burnetti said about the Vit.

C protocol and who the doctor was who used this protocol? It was to

make " cementum " to contain cancer so that it couldn't push through the

tissue to spread.

Also, does anyone remember the other thing Jerry said about the blood

vessels growing to the cancer cells? There was a doctor who used a

protocol to prevent that; was it iodine?

My friend has lung cancer and I want to find out what he can do and who

he can get to help him.

On Apr 14, 2006, at 4:21 PM, docscotte wrote:

> For a long time, I use Amla as my Vit C source, telling all that it

> was the highest know plant source of this. finally, me master

> herbalsirt dear friend brought to may attention that this a common

> misconception. Yes, it has some C, but mainly it acts to potentiate

> C activity. As teh adrenals as teh body's C reservoir, and the

> adrenal related indicators are what I used to determine bect VC

> product, Amla had in fact worked very nicely for me, as a putative

> source in destresing the adrenals. Specifically however, it is not

> much of a C source, thoug it is highly beneficial - hence it's

> inclusion in the ages old Triphala formula.

> Learn from my mistake, No Charge!

>

Parashis

artpages@...

zine:

artpagesonline.com

portfolio:

http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html