Low Sodium

October 25, 2005

I've had palpitations from hypokalemia, but not from hyponatremia. Are

you getting enough potassium? How much water are you drinking? Have

you been taking any diuretics or laxatives?

Best regards,

Celeste

Phil wrote:

> Anyone ever hear of heart palpitations being caused by too low sodium

> intake? By too low, I mean very little. I've on a very low sodium

> regimen for a good while, and I'm noticing the palpitations after I

> eat. Could my potasium be too high relative to sodium?

>

October 25, 2005

I think I get plenty of potasium because I drink alot of grapefriut juice, eat

fruit and veg. Drink filtered water (1/3 to 1/2 gal per day) and no diuretics or

laxatives. Also no stimulants like caffeine. I did read in my nutrition manual

that very low sodium levels can cause palpitations. Maybe I should ad a little

salt. Just wondering whether anyone else ever experienced this.

Re: Low sodium

I've had palpitations from hypokalemia, but not from hyponatremia. Are

you getting enough potassium? How much water are you drinking? Have

you been taking any diuretics or laxatives?

Best regards,

Celeste

Phil wrote:

> Anyone ever hear of heart palpitations being caused by too low sodium

> intake? By too low, I mean very little. I've on a very low sodium

> regimen for a good while, and I'm noticing the palpitations after I

> eat. Could my potasium be too high relative to sodium?

>

Note: This forum is for discussion of health related subjects but under no

circumstances should any information published here be considered a substitute

for personal medical advice from a qualified physician. -the owner

October 26, 2005

a1thighmaster wrote:

> I've had palpitations from hypokalemia, but not from hyponatremia. Are

> you getting enough potassium? How much water are you drinking? Have

> you been taking any diuretics or laxatives?

I agree. It's potassium and hydration you need to look at, not sodium.

(Also magnesium and blood pressure.)

Palpitations can have many causes.

....Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.

www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)

Proverb:Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it.

October 26, 2005

Stardora wrote:

> I think I get plenty of potasium because I drink alot of grapefriut

juice, eat fruit and veg. Drink filtered water (1/3 to 1/2 gal per day)

and no diuretics or laxatives. Also no stimulants like caffeine. I did

read in my nutrition manual that very low sodium levels can cause

palpitations.>

Not likely.

My own diet is 700mg (not even a gram) of sodium per day and I challenge

you to go under that! How low are you calling low?

I get palpitations if if my potassium drops, which it does often as I

happen to have a kidney defect that excretes potassium instead of sodium.

If you are as low on sodium as I am - which is most unlikely - you can

get raised aldosterone levels and that can have a domino effect in a few

places, but nothing as serious as getting your potassium right.

Have your doctor run a few appropriate blood tests?

Menopausal women often get palpitations. However women are also

especially susceptible to heart issues, particularly after a high fat

meal or even more so if you eat a 2nd high fat meal within 6 hrs of a

prior high fat meal - because that induces spasms of the arteries and

female heart attacks are caused by arterial spasm rather than occlusion

as you no doubt know. (After all 50% of women get heart disease and it

helps to know your status.)

I had a heart attack out of the blue myself 18 May this year,

despite a healthy diet, healthy lipid profile, and a decent blood

pressure (102/70). The main cause was low potassium in my case -

aggravated by diabetes and cortisol from high stress. Had I added salt,

it would have been worse.

> Maybe I should ad a little salt.

I would suggest - Don't guess and mess with the salt - just find the

real cause?

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.

www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)

Proverb:Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it.

October 26, 2005

every cell in your body is a sodium - potassium battery. Naturally the ratio is

crucial.

October 26, 2005

Thanks for the detailed response, Irene. Let me also state that I am a 49 yo

male. I have been experimenting for the last 3 months with METFORMIN as an

anti-aging drug. For the last few weeks I have been experiencing a very dry

mouth and lips even as I was constantly drinking water. I am also taking 500 mg

of magnesium along with 1gram of calcium in my vitamin/mineral intake.

I am eating few processed foods and add zero salt to my food so my salt intake

should be pretty low.

I just checked my manual for potassium, and I think you are probably right. It

does list thirst and palpitations as effect of low potassium. Maybe the

metformin is depleting it in my system, as this is the first I have ever

experienced this. I'll add some potassium crystals to my food and see what

happens. BTW, I am VERY pleased with the effects of the metformin, other than

the mentioned possible side effects. It is supposed to alter the gene expression

to a younger profile and lower blood sugar/insulin levels. It has sigificantly

cut back my appetite and I assume also my blood sugar/insulin levels, but if the

side effects don't subside after I increase the potassium, I'll just cut back or

quit the metformin.

Thanks again..

Re: Re: Low sodium

Stardora wrote:

> I think I get plenty of potasium because I drink alot of grapefriut

juice, eat fruit and veg. Drink filtered water (1/3 to 1/2 gal per day)

and no diuretics or laxatives. Also no stimulants like caffeine. I did

read in my nutrition manual that very low sodium levels can cause

palpitations.>

Not likely.

My own diet is 700mg (not even a gram) of sodium per day and I challenge

you to go under that! How low are you calling low?

I get palpitations if if my potassium drops, which it does often as I

happen to have a kidney defect that excretes potassium instead of sodium.

If you are as low on sodium as I am - which is most unlikely - you can

get raised aldosterone levels and that can have a domino effect in a few

places, but nothing as serious as getting your potassium right.

Have your doctor run a few appropriate blood tests?

Menopausal women often get palpitations. However women are also

especially susceptible to heart issues, particularly after a high fat

meal or even more so if you eat a 2nd high fat meal within 6 hrs of a

prior high fat meal - because that induces spasms of the arteries and

female heart attacks are caused by arterial spasm rather than occlusion

as you no doubt know. (After all 50% of women get heart disease and it

helps to know your status.)

I had a heart attack out of the blue myself 18 May this year,

despite a healthy diet, healthy lipid profile, and a decent blood

pressure (102/70). The main cause was low potassium in my case -

aggravated by diabetes and cortisol from high stress. Had I added salt,

it would have been worse.

> Maybe I should ad a little salt.

I would suggest - Don't guess and mess with the salt - just find the

real cause?

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.

www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)

Proverb:Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it.

Note: This forum is for discussion of health related subjects but under no

circumstances should any information published here be considered a substitute

for personal medical advice from a qualified physician. -the owner

October 26, 2005

hopetek@... wrote:

> every cell in your body is a sodium - potassium battery. Naturally the ratio

is crucial.

YEs top a point:

Sodium is actively excreted by the kidneys, where potassium is actively

retained by the kidneys - so the ratio eaten does not necessarily make a

big change in the ratio in the body.

In addition, most of the body's potassium is held in cells, which will

release it to the bloodstream as needed - to a point.

So these two factors make it less simple than it may seem, and it

actually makes the potassium far more critical than the sodium.

Another factor is that we NEED a lot of potassium relatively and very

little sodium to function well. An intake of 600 to 700 mg of Sodium is

all we USE in 24 hrs - the rest is excreted, and so a " low sodium diet "

is extremely unlikely to occur for reason there is so much sodium in

most foods even without adding salt - unless the person is avoiding

protein or doing something in a way that loses great amounts of

perspiration. So it is hard to eat to go below that necessary amount of

daily sodium which is really very little compared with the truckload in

a " normal " modern day diet.

Most people consider 2000mg a day to be " very low sodium " diet!

but it is at least three times the minimum needed.

So a *dietary* lack of sodium is extremely unlikely to occur - and any

lack of sodium in the body will have more to do with aldosterone levels,

kidney malfunction or some other metabolic fault rather than dietary

intake issues.

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.

www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)

Proverb:Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it.

October 26, 2005

Stardora wrote:

> Thanks for the detailed response, Irene. Let me also state that I am a 49 yo

male.

Ah - then I take back anything said on menopause etc etc!!!!! :-)))

You may consider signing your posts now and then:-)

> I have been experimenting for the last 3 months with METFORMIN as an

anti-aging drug.

OOh - then that makes a difference, drugs will mess up any metabolism!

Metformin can cause a serious, metabolic complication namely lactic

acidosis. It can be fatal (in 50% of cases reportedly) You want to check

what Metformin is doing to your metabolism - I am SURE there are better

anti ageing approaches too - try Perricone's books for starters. He's a

dermatologist but what you east determines your ageing and is evidenced

internally and at skin level - something this particular dermatologist

actually understands:-)

Could your " palpitations " be bradyarrhythmias?

This is a slower-than-60 heartbeat effect caused by atrioventricular

conduction block, and which is a known side effect of metformin:

From the drug monograph, which may or may not be relevant in your

particular case - but do be aware of it......

" Lactic acidosis is characterized by elevated blood lactate levels,

decreased blood pH, electrolyte disturbances with an increased anion

gap, and an increased lactate/pyruvate ratio. Symptoms of lactic

acidosis include malaise, myalgias, increasing somnolence, abdominal

symptoms, respiratory distress, hypothermia, hypotension, and resistant

bradyarrhythmias.

Reduced kidney function is the single most important risk factor

for developing lactic acidosis in patients taking metformin.........

Metformin should also be promptly withheld in the presence of any

condition associated with hypoxemia, dehydration, or sepsis, or if any

surgery is planned. "

Metformin is a cationic drug (carries a positive charge) which means it

can compete for cationic handling in the renal distal tubule of the

kidneys with other cations (of which potassium is one). Metformin also

inhibits the absorption of certain nutrients, and potassium is one that

may be hampered by the drug.

Metformin per drug monograph is also contraindicated if there is any

liver or renal damage as the drug can then not be appropriately excreted

- or if there is a congestive heart condition. the highest risk if it is

not well excreted is with lactic acidosis (and a blood test for lactic

acid will reveal a yes/no on that.)

You may want to look into why you are using metformin off-label

(anti-ageing as opposed to for diabetes) in the first place?

Drugs always come with a sting in the tail - and I do sincerely believe

there are always better options.

I hope there is not something nasty going on but here is a reference

from a New Zealand government site for metformin-induced lactic

acidosis. Thirst or dehydration is a potential early sign of it:

http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/Profs/PUarticles/5.htm

(By the way I like the attitude New Zealand has in health issues - it is

open and not sat upon by drug companies wanting to make profits.)

The USA sites will just tell you that metformin-induced lactic acidosis

is " rare " and expect you to " go away " and " forget it " . I do not like how

drug problems are swept under the carpet in USA. The statistics show

they kill literally hundreds of thousands of Americans annually, and

main 6 million a year. That's not something to sneeze at in my book.

As consumers I consider we deserve to know the good, the bad AND the

ugly about drugs before being invited to use them!

> I am eating few processed foods and add zero salt to my food so my

salt intake should be pretty low.

It can vary a lot, even adding no salt. For example 110mg in a cup of

milk. Even no-salt-added tomatoes have significant sodium. Daily

requirement of 600 to 800mg is quick to be reached as I know to my cost.

Meat and other protein also has plenty of sodium.

I've not had a salt pot for most of my life and do not eat any

processed food due to salt. But I struggle to keep my sodium down to the

requirements for my body level despite a lifetime of working at it. (A

kidney defect forces me to do that as I can not excrete it; my kidneys

excrete potassium instead and I have to take extra several times a day

to avoid dehydration.)

> I just checked my manual for potassium, and I think you are probably

right. It does list thirst and palpitations as effect of low potassium.

> Maybe the metformin is depleting it in my system,

I seriously doubt it is doing you any good long-term. Even if it changes

one thing the way you want, it will be changing others deleteriously.

I do believe there are healthy ways to attain longevity and health

instead of using drugs with both known and unknown long-term effects.

But that's my perspective:-)

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.

www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)

Proverb:Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it.

October 26, 2005

I think you guys cracked the problem. I had a little potassium crystals into

some vegtable juice and it had an immediate effect. Within minutes I felt

noticeably better and the palpitations ceased. I will be adding small amounts to

my food here on out. Yee Haa!

I had no idea that sodium is so infused in natural food. I'm obviously getting

enough.

I'm aware of the lactic acidosis issue as i've read tons of material on the

drug, and an hyper-vigilant about any signs of it. The official literature from

the manufacturer says that the statistical probability of getting it is 1 in

33,000...very favorable odds. Ward Dean, a famous longevity doctor has

recomended that all people over 40 should consider taking it as an longevity

med. As I wrote before, the new gene assay technology has shown that it

tranfigures the individual genome into a " younger " state, similar to caloric

restriction. It has also made mice live 20% longer relative to normal controls.

I'm very pleased with it's effect except for the possible interference of the

potassium. Here is the LE article if you or others would like to read it:

BioMarker Pharmaceuticals Develops Anti-Aging Therapy

By Saul Kent, Director, Life Extension Foundation

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2003/2003_preprint_bio_01.html

" Could your " palpitations " be bradyarrhythmias? This is a slower-than-60

heartbeat "

No, my resting heart rate is well above this level. The article you suggested

said:

" Signs and symptoms of biguanide-induced lactic acidosis are nonspecific and

include anorexia, nausea, vomiting, altered level of consciousness, hyperpnoea,

abdominal pain and thirst "

Hmmm. I felt good except for the palpitations and thirst. My appetite is reduced

but is still solid, and I am slowly dropping body fat without hunger. Energy

levels are good. Could the thirst be caused by deficient potassium?