Re: Statement about HIV and supplement control.

[Guest guest]

I agree 100% with JB and Al

I have seen so many people die believing this! Or some let their CD4 cells go down so low that they have horrible complications that cost them a lot of needless trouble.

I take supplements for many reasons, but even in our most desperate years I never thought anything could really have a strong antiviral activity to control HIV completely. However, I strongly believe that some supplements and hormonal treatments can more effectively help HAART reconstitute the immune system. Key word: complementary NOT alternative therapies.

We need to be careful. Politicians in Africa think people can control their HIV with herbs and advocate for reduced medication access. A lot of the denialists use this tactic to penetrate the HIV community.

Regards, Vergelpowerusa dot org

In a message dated 1/7/2008 10:01:00 A.M. Central Standard Time, pozbod@... writes:

Those of us who have lived with and been active in advocacy around this disease from the beginning now want state unambiguously: Nobody with HIV infection should take any "nutritional supplement" believing that such a product will have any direct impact on the progression of HIV disease, even if supplements may be of benefit for managing some of the complications experienced by people living with AIDS. This line of discussion is as false and destructive as anything stated by denialists, and should be ignored and opposed as a threat to maintaining the life and health of those of us living with HIV.

Co signed

Barrow

Al BensonStart the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

I agree 100% with JB and Al

I have seen so many people die believing this! Or some let their CD4 cells go down so low that they have horrible complications that cost them a lot of needless trouble.

I take supplements for many reasons, but even in our most desperate years I never thought anything could really have a strong antiviral activity to control HIV completely. However, I strongly believe that some supplements and hormonal treatments can more effectively help HAART reconstitute the immune system. Key word: complementary NOT alternative therapies.

We need to be careful. Politicians in Africa think people can control their HIV with herbs and advocate for reduced medication access. A lot of the denialists use this tactic to penetrate the HIV community.

Regards, Vergelpowerusa dot org

In a message dated 1/7/2008 10:01:00 A.M. Central Standard Time, pozbod@... writes:

Those of us who have lived with and been active in advocacy around this disease from the beginning now want state unambiguously: Nobody with HIV infection should take any "nutritional supplement" believing that such a product will have any direct impact on the progression of HIV disease, even if supplements may be of benefit for managing some of the complications experienced by people living with AIDS. This line of discussion is as false and destructive as anything stated by denialists, and should be ignored and opposed as a threat to maintaining the life and health of those of us living with HIV.

Co signed

Barrow

Al BensonStart the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

Ah, well, the statement is in error. There ARE data showing that a

simple multi can slow HIV disease progression (Tanzanian study) and

the Thai study showing reduced morbidity and mortality. So there IS

evidence that supplements can have an impact on HIV disease evolution.

There are many other studies showing that supplements can have an

impact on various aspects of antiretroviral toxicities.

Supplements have an important role in HIV disease management. So does

ARV. These are hardly mutually exclusive statements, but I believe

the statement of Al and is somewhat hyperbolic and fails to

review the evidence.

Supplements alone are inadequate. ARV alone is inadequate. Food and

clean water alone are inadequate. Taken judiciously together, in

balance and in ways that address individual variability can enhance

outcomes considerably.

M.

[Guest guest]

Just interjecting a semantical note into the discussion - There's a

difference between saying that nutrients slow " HIV " progression (the

infection itself), and that they may help slow " disease " progression (HIV

related complications and infections). If I read you all correctly - there's

no evidence that nutritional supplements slow HIV infection, but there is

evidence that they can bolster the body's defenses to illness and overall

health. Definition of terms is important here.

Good discussion - and necessary ...

BG

[Guest guest]

Just interjecting a semantical note into the discussion - There's a

difference between saying that nutrients slow " HIV " progression (the

infection itself), and that they may help slow " disease " progression (HIV

related complications and infections). If I read you all correctly - there's

no evidence that nutritional supplements slow HIV infection, but there is

evidence that they can bolster the body's defenses to illness and overall

health. Definition of terms is important here.

Good discussion - and necessary ...

BG

[Guest guest]

this is an important distinction that seems to have gotten lost. i'm

hopeful that the intense reaction of this 'statement' doesn not result

in further censorship...advocating good nutrition does not necessarily

equal " hiv=aids denialism " .

we are probably AT LEAST a decade away from hiv drugs that dont have

the bad rep all AIDS drugs have had for 20+years. frankly, until i

became educated after my first treatment regime failed, i was looking

to stop meds altogether. fuck me with a chainsaw, i'm shallow and

facing crix belly/buffalo hump horrifies me and many others. the

desire and intent to avoid HIV meds is common, and far beyond the

ability of anyone on this list to prevent. what we can do for those

who think ARV meds can be avoided in favor of vitameatavegemin is

REDIRECT them towards an understanding of complementary therapy.

4 years ago i would have read this statement and just assumed u guys

were shrill activists. i suppose u r anyway, but i concede the point

that clarity is necessary. Bill Gaul presented the proper distinction

between supplements used in COMPLEMENT to ARV as opposed to their use

an ALTERNATIVE to ARV. the former is usually advisable, the latter is

rarely satisfactory (except perhaps for longterm nonprogressors) and

often suicidal.

dont throw the baby out with the bath water, it's counterproductive.

if u dont carefully make distinction between " supplements can help

improve ARV-based outcomes " and " supplements will not save u from

AIDS " and just attack any discussion of supplements that isnt

sufficiently orthodox, u will not seem credible. that would be a loss,

and limit the help u can provide.

Jeton

>

> Just interjecting a semantical note into the discussion - There's a

> difference between saying that nutrients slow " HIV " progression (the

> infection itself), and that they may help slow " disease " progression

(HIV

> related complications and infections). If I read you all correctly -

there's

> no evidence that nutritional supplements slow HIV infection, but

there is

> evidence that they can bolster the body's defenses to illness and

overall

> health. Definition of terms is important here.

>

> Good discussion - and necessary ...

>

> BG

>