Re: Carnitor and lipodystrophy

[Guest guest]

Hard to say - I've been taking L-Carnitine for about 3 years now,

mostly for other issues, but it was prescribed with a diagnosis of

mitochondrial damage. I think lipo fat has been reduced significantly, at

least the subcutaneous kind. Hard to tell right now, since any fat gain

still goes straight to my belly (as it tends to in a person over 50) - but

it doesn't have that hard bulge it used to. Definitely lost most of the fat

pads under my pecs, and I have less lipomas. The reason it's hard to say is

that I cut a lot of sugar and starch out of my diet, which probably also

helped. And I'm still seeing metabolic markers showing dysfunction. I

haven't stopped it for any significant amount of time, so it's - well - hard

to say.

It seemed to help with neuropathy for a while, but now I'm having problems

again. It may have just slowed the progression - and - I have tendon

inflammation (plantar fasciitis) and a compressed lumbar disk to aggravate

the legs and feet (glad I have a bicycle and swim regularly).

I do know that it contributes to " pill fatigue " at 3 large tablets 3x daily.

Other than that, I can't say it's done any harm either - and with a proper

diagnosis it's covered by my insurance. All in all, I think it's been

beneficial. I think to treat a syndrome like lipodystrophy, you need a

holistic approach anyway. Carnitor's a good supplement to include, in my

experience.

BG

>

Has anybody had any success with L carnitine or carnitor in reducing

body fat caused by HIV meds? Just curious.

<

[Guest guest]

Hard to say - I've been taking L-Carnitine for about 3 years now,

mostly for other issues, but it was prescribed with a diagnosis of

mitochondrial damage. I think lipo fat has been reduced significantly, at

least the subcutaneous kind. Hard to tell right now, since any fat gain

still goes straight to my belly (as it tends to in a person over 50) - but

it doesn't have that hard bulge it used to. Definitely lost most of the fat

pads under my pecs, and I have less lipomas. The reason it's hard to say is

that I cut a lot of sugar and starch out of my diet, which probably also

helped. And I'm still seeing metabolic markers showing dysfunction. I

haven't stopped it for any significant amount of time, so it's - well - hard

to say.

It seemed to help with neuropathy for a while, but now I'm having problems

again. It may have just slowed the progression - and - I have tendon

inflammation (plantar fasciitis) and a compressed lumbar disk to aggravate

the legs and feet (glad I have a bicycle and swim regularly).

I do know that it contributes to " pill fatigue " at 3 large tablets 3x daily.

Other than that, I can't say it's done any harm either - and with a proper

diagnosis it's covered by my insurance. All in all, I think it's been

beneficial. I think to treat a syndrome like lipodystrophy, you need a

holistic approach anyway. Carnitor's a good supplement to include, in my

experience.

BG

>

Has anybody had any success with L carnitine or carnitor in reducing

body fat caused by HIV meds? Just curious.

<

[Guest guest]

BG, I am on carnitor for several months now

I find it works a lot better the l-carnitine from the

vitamin shop

But just in case I also use additional L-carnitine to

boost the dosage I try to take 1000 ml a day, but

some day it is just a pain to keep on taking pills

every few hours and some time I do skip.

If you can, do exercise I find exercise helps a lot

with neurophaty probably by increasing circulation to

the nerve endings, for hands you can

use a tennis ball and just do squeezes and for feet

and legs any legs and calves exercise will help.

mark b

--- Bill Gaul <wgaul1@...> wrote:

> Hard to say - I've been taking L-Carnitine for

> about 3 years now,

> mostly for other issues, but it was prescribed with

> a diagnosis of

> mitochondrial damage. I think lipo fat has been

> reduced significantly, at

> least the subcutaneous kind. Hard to tell right now,

> since any fat gain

> still goes straight to my belly (as it tends to in a

> person over 50) - but

> it doesn't have that hard bulge it used to.

> Definitely lost most of the fat

> pads under my pecs, and I have less lipomas. The

> reason it's hard to say is

> that I cut a lot of sugar and starch out of my diet,

> which probably also

> helped. And I'm still seeing metabolic markers

> showing dysfunction. I

> haven't stopped it for any significant amount of

> time, so it's - well - hard

> to say.

>

> It seemed to help with neuropathy for a while, but

> now I'm having problems

> again. It may have just slowed the progression - and

> - I have tendon

> inflammation (plantar fasciitis) and a compressed

> lumbar disk to aggravate

> the legs and feet (glad I have a bicycle and swim

> regularly).

>

> I do know that it contributes to " pill fatigue " at 3

> large tablets 3x daily.

> Other than that, I can't say it's done any harm

> either - and with a proper

> diagnosis it's covered by my insurance. All in all,

> I think it's been

> beneficial. I think to treat a syndrome like

> lipodystrophy, you need a

> holistic approach anyway. Carnitor's a good

> supplement to include, in my

> experience.

>

> BG

>

> >

>

> Has anybody had any success with L carnitine or

> carnitor in reducing

> body fat caused by HIV meds? Just curious.

>

> <

>

>

>

>

> Welcome to our group!

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[Guest guest]

There are no studies linking improvements in visceral fat and carnitine in HIV. I have used Carnitine at 1500 mg a day for years because it helps my energy level, mental focus and lipids. It also keeps me more pumped (two small studies show an increase in IGF-1 levels with Carnitine)I also use Coenzyme Q-10 for energy and appetite, zinc to avoid DHT related problems and help with testosterone, B-100 vitamins for many cell related functions, and an Energy Capsule from SuperNutrition twice a day. Fatigue is my main complain, and these supplements help me a lot.This is a list of supplements I was taking a few years ago.http://www.thebody.com/content/art32497.html I dropped the sylimarin since my liver enzymes went back to normal after I stopped Norvir. I also dropped the calcium and the digestive enzymes for the same reason. I replaced the Optipak for the energy capsules. I try Dr Kaiser's KPAX once in a

while but my mind plays games since the pill burden is so high. I lowered the Carnitine to 1500 because my body odor was a little too strong :)I am writing a summary of the latest supplement studies in HIV...Mark <markboothan@...> wrote: BG, I am on carnitor for several months now I find it works a lot better the l-carnitine from thevitamin shopBut just in case I also use additional L-carnitine toboost the dosage I try to take 1000 ml a day, butsome day it is just a pain to keep on taking pillsevery few hours and some time I do skip.If you can, do exercise I find exercise helps a lotwith neurophaty probably by increasing circulation tothe nerve endings, for hands you can use a tennis ball and just do squeezes and for feetand legs any legs and calves exercise will

help.mark b--- Bill Gaul wrote:> Hard to say - I've been taking L-Carnitine for> about 3 years now, > mostly for other issues, but it was prescribed with> a diagnosis of > mitochondrial damage. I think lipo fat has been> reduced significantly, at > least the subcutaneous kind. Hard to tell right now,> since any fat gain > still goes straight to my belly (as it tends to in a> person over 50) - but > it doesn't have that hard bulge it used to.> Definitely lost most of the fat > pads under my pecs, and I have less lipomas. The> reason it's hard to say is > that I cut a lot of sugar and starch out of my diet,> which probably also > helped. And I'm still seeing metabolic markers> showing dysfunction. I > haven't stopped it for any significant amount of> time, so it's - well - hard

> to say.> > It seemed to help with neuropathy for a while, but> now I'm having problems > again. It may have just slowed the progression - and> - I have tendon > inflammation (plantar fasciitis) and a compressed> lumbar disk to aggravate > the legs and feet (glad I have a bicycle and swim> regularly).> > I do know that it contributes to "pill fatigue" at 3> large tablets 3x daily. > Other than that, I can't say it's done any harm> either - and with a proper > diagnosis it's covered by my insurance. All in all,> I think it's been > beneficial. I think to treat a syndrome like> lipodystrophy, you need a > holistic approach anyway. Carnitor's a good> supplement to include, in my > experience.> > BG> > >> > Has anybody had any success with L carnitine or> carnitor in

reducing> body fat caused by HIV meds? Just curious. > > <> > > > > Welcome to our group!> > If you received this email from someone who> forwarded it to you and would like to join this> group, send a blank email to> -subscribe and you will get> an email with instructions to follow.> > You can chose to receive single emails or a daily> digest (collection of emails). You can post> pictures, images, attach files and search by keyword> old postings in the group.> > For those of you who are members already and want to> switch from single emails to digest or vice versa,> visit www., click on , then> on "edit my membership" and go down to your> selection. The list administrator does not process> any requests, so this is a

do-it-yourself easy> process ! > > Thanks for joining. You will learn and share a lot> in this group!> > NOTE: I moderate, approve or disapprove emails> before they are posted. Please follow the guidelines> shown in the homepage. I will not allow rudeness,> sexually explicit material, attacks, and anyone who> does not follow the rules. If you are not OK with> this, please do not join the group. > > Forward this email to anyone who may benefit from> this information! Thanks!> > In Health,> > Vergel (PoWeRTX@...)> List Founder and Moderator> >

[Guest guest]

Dear

To be honest with you, the only people that I have seen who have decreased considerably their belly have lost weight everywhere usually using a low carb diet and exercise. I think you can probably minimize the loss of lean body mass while dieting if you used Oxandrin or nandrolone, or low dose growth hormone.

I do not believe that ab crunches decrease visceral fat. I actually think that bellies can actually get bigger by doing crunches. I think losing fat is the best way to show abs. However, some of us have abs that show pretty well due to lipoatrophy but our guts are somehow protruding (someone mentioned once that we look like turtles!). I am yet to do a CT scan of my gut, but I am taking to my doc about a one slice CT close to my belly button just to see what is inside. I think years of androgen use can increase organ size also, which could contribute to some of us having a "steroid" gut. But I'd rather have a steroid gut but extremities big enough to "balance" my body out!

Regards, Vergelpowerusa dot org

In a message dated 1/7/2008 10:01:44 A.M. Central Standard Time, austradie@... writes:

Day fellas.

Would anyone have any advice about how to lose the lipo gut without risking losing weight elsewhere.(limbs etc)

I've been told that cardio is the way as all the ab crunches tighten the underlying muscles but don't get rid of the visceral belly fat.

Which cardio would work ?I'm not big on jogging anymore.

Also can anyone recommend a high protein diet for weight training that is kind on the digestion?I find powders like whey create a lot of bloatedness and gas.

Regards Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

Dear

To be honest with you, the only people that I have seen who have decreased considerably their belly have lost weight everywhere usually using a low carb diet and exercise. I think you can probably minimize the loss of lean body mass while dieting if you used Oxandrin or nandrolone, or low dose growth hormone.

I do not believe that ab crunches decrease visceral fat. I actually think that bellies can actually get bigger by doing crunches. I think losing fat is the best way to show abs. However, some of us have abs that show pretty well due to lipoatrophy but our guts are somehow protruding (someone mentioned once that we look like turtles!). I am yet to do a CT scan of my gut, but I am taking to my doc about a one slice CT close to my belly button just to see what is inside. I think years of androgen use can increase organ size also, which could contribute to some of us having a "steroid" gut. But I'd rather have a steroid gut but extremities big enough to "balance" my body out!

Regards, Vergelpowerusa dot org

In a message dated 1/7/2008 10:01:44 A.M. Central Standard Time, austradie@... writes:

Day fellas.

Would anyone have any advice about how to lose the lipo gut without risking losing weight elsewhere.(limbs etc)

I've been told that cardio is the way as all the ab crunches tighten the underlying muscles but don't get rid of the visceral belly fat.

Which cardio would work ?I'm not big on jogging anymore.

Also can anyone recommend a high protein diet for weight training that is kind on the digestion?I find powders like whey create a lot of bloatedness and gas.

Regards Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

GDay fellas.

Would anyone have any advice about how to lose the lipo gut without risking losing weight elsewhere.(limbs etc)

I've been told that cardio is the way as all the ab crunches tighten the underlying muscles but don't get rid of the visceral belly fat.

Which cardio would work ?I'm not big on jogging anymore.

Also can anyone recommend a high protein diet for weight training that is kind on the digestion?I find powders like whey create a lot of bloatedness and gas.

Regards

[Guest guest]

Oh - I do lots of stuff for neuropathy. And I do find it's worse when I'm

inactive with a bad cold or just really cold like it was here last week. I

ride my bicycle to the gym, lift weights, swim, stretch, do Tai Chi, get a

couple massages a month, and even massage my own feet and legs, especially

in the hot tub. It all helps. I think the inflammation in the tendons in my

feet is causing additional numbness - strange sensation, hurts inside, numb

outside (or so it feels). And there's always the Ibuprofen. I finally got an

electric razor since I'd practically bleed to death every shaving nick after

taking a lot of Ibuprofen. I used to get acupuncture, which helped a lot for

a few days, but really can't afford it every week.

I had a 6'4 " roommate in SF who developed neuropathy after a very active

life. Eventually we had to take doors off in the apartment so his wheelchair

would fit through, and I once carried him downstairs fireman style because

the medi-van people wouldn't come in. So I'm not only trying to alleviate

pain, I'm hoping to not ever be that disabled. I like walking!

Thanks for the info on your experience with Carnitor. I think I brought it

to my doctor's attention after reading posts here, and now my doctor likely

has other people trying it. So sharing our experience here can be very

useful.

BG

Re: Carnitor and lipodystrophy

BG, I am on carnitor for several months now

I find it works a lot better the l-carnitine from the

vitamin shop

But just in case I also use additional L-carnitine to

boost the dosage I try to take 1000 ml a day, but

some day it is just a pain to keep on taking pills

every few hours and some time I do skip.

If you can, do exercise I find exercise helps a lot

with neurophaty probably by increasing circulation to

the nerve endings, for hands you can

use a tennis ball and just do squeezes and for feet

and legs any legs and calves exercise will help.

mark b

[Guest guest]

Oh - I do lots of stuff for neuropathy. And I do find it's worse when I'm

inactive with a bad cold or just really cold like it was here last week. I

ride my bicycle to the gym, lift weights, swim, stretch, do Tai Chi, get a

couple massages a month, and even massage my own feet and legs, especially

in the hot tub. It all helps. I think the inflammation in the tendons in my

feet is causing additional numbness - strange sensation, hurts inside, numb

outside (or so it feels). And there's always the Ibuprofen. I finally got an

electric razor since I'd practically bleed to death every shaving nick after

taking a lot of Ibuprofen. I used to get acupuncture, which helped a lot for

a few days, but really can't afford it every week.

I had a 6'4 " roommate in SF who developed neuropathy after a very active

life. Eventually we had to take doors off in the apartment so his wheelchair

would fit through, and I once carried him downstairs fireman style because

the medi-van people wouldn't come in. So I'm not only trying to alleviate

pain, I'm hoping to not ever be that disabled. I like walking!

Thanks for the info on your experience with Carnitor. I think I brought it

to my doctor's attention after reading posts here, and now my doctor likely

has other people trying it. So sharing our experience here can be very

useful.

BG

Re: Carnitor and lipodystrophy

BG, I am on carnitor for several months now

I find it works a lot better the l-carnitine from the

vitamin shop

But just in case I also use additional L-carnitine to

boost the dosage I try to take 1000 ml a day, but

some day it is just a pain to keep on taking pills

every few hours and some time I do skip.

If you can, do exercise I find exercise helps a lot

with neurophaty probably by increasing circulation to

the nerve endings, for hands you can

use a tennis ball and just do squeezes and for feet

and legs any legs and calves exercise will help.

mark b

[Guest guest]

My reason for starting Carnitor, about 3 years ago, was to help in any area that may be related to mitochondrial damage. But energy level and mental focus seem to have improved also, probably more than anything else, and I think it helps in that area. I've reduced some lipo, but can't say if it's due to levocarnitine or not. Since I'm always making adjustments in diet, exercise and supplements - and not just one change at a time, it's hard to tell what does what - for me, at least.

Bottom line is that it seems to be of enough benefit to continue taking those horse pills three times a day (gulp).

So yes - energy and alertness have improved since I've been taking carnitine. Testosterone gel also helps me there, even though I use it at half the normal frequency to avoid side effects I've had.

BG

Re: Carnitor and lipodystrophy

There are no studies linking improvements in visceral fat and carnitine in HIV. I have used Carnitine at 1500 mg a day for years because it helps my energy level, mental focus and lipids. It also keeps me more pumped (two small studies show an increase in IGF-1 levels with Carnitine)I also use Coenzyme Q-10 for energy and appetite, zinc to avoid DHT related problems and help with testosterone, B-100 vitamins for many cell related functions, and an Energy Capsule from SuperNutrition twice a day. Fatigue is my main complain, and these supplements help me a lot.This is a list of supplements I was taking a few years ago.http://www.thebody.com/content/art32497.html I dropped the sylimarin since my liver enzymes went back to normal after I stopped Norvir. I also dropped the calcium and the digestive enzymes for the same reason. I replaced the Optipak for the energy capsules. I try Dr Kaiser's KPAX once in a while but my mind plays games since the pill burden is so high. I lowered the Carnitine to 1500 because my body odor was a little too strong :)I am writing a summary of the latest supplement studies in HIV...Mark <markboothan@...> wrote:

BG, I am on carnitor for several months now I find it works a lot better the l-carnitine from thevitamin shopBut just in case I also use additional L-carnitine toboost the dosage I try to take 1000 ml a day, butsome day it is just a pain to keep on taking pillsevery few hours and some time I do skip.If you can, do exercise I find exercise helps a lotwith neurophaty probably by increasing circulation tothe nerve endings, for hands you can use a tennis ball and just do squeezes and for feetand legs any legs and calves exercise will help.mark b

[Guest guest]

My reason for starting Carnitor, about 3 years ago, was to help in any area that may be related to mitochondrial damage. But energy level and mental focus seem to have improved also, probably more than anything else, and I think it helps in that area. I've reduced some lipo, but can't say if it's due to levocarnitine or not. Since I'm always making adjustments in diet, exercise and supplements - and not just one change at a time, it's hard to tell what does what - for me, at least.

Bottom line is that it seems to be of enough benefit to continue taking those horse pills three times a day (gulp).

So yes - energy and alertness have improved since I've been taking carnitine. Testosterone gel also helps me there, even though I use it at half the normal frequency to avoid side effects I've had.

BG

Re: Carnitor and lipodystrophy

There are no studies linking improvements in visceral fat and carnitine in HIV. I have used Carnitine at 1500 mg a day for years because it helps my energy level, mental focus and lipids. It also keeps me more pumped (two small studies show an increase in IGF-1 levels with Carnitine)I also use Coenzyme Q-10 for energy and appetite, zinc to avoid DHT related problems and help with testosterone, B-100 vitamins for many cell related functions, and an Energy Capsule from SuperNutrition twice a day. Fatigue is my main complain, and these supplements help me a lot.This is a list of supplements I was taking a few years ago.http://www.thebody.com/content/art32497.html I dropped the sylimarin since my liver enzymes went back to normal after I stopped Norvir. I also dropped the calcium and the digestive enzymes for the same reason. I replaced the Optipak for the energy capsules. I try Dr Kaiser's KPAX once in a while but my mind plays games since the pill burden is so high. I lowered the Carnitine to 1500 because my body odor was a little too strong :)I am writing a summary of the latest supplement studies in HIV...Mark <markboothan@...> wrote:

BG, I am on carnitor for several months now I find it works a lot better the l-carnitine from thevitamin shopBut just in case I also use additional L-carnitine toboost the dosage I try to take 1000 ml a day, butsome day it is just a pain to keep on taking pillsevery few hours and some time I do skip.If you can, do exercise I find exercise helps a lotwith neurophaty probably by increasing circulation tothe nerve endings, for hands you can use a tennis ball and just do squeezes and for feetand legs any legs and calves exercise will help.mark b

[Guest guest]

, my favorite cardio is with elliptical machines,

it is easier the running and it burns more

calories,and if you apply enough resistance it also

works out and builds your legs.

I also like the fact that you can target different

parts of your legs as well as working the entire legs

by adjusting the inclination.

I have to tell you that any exercise that will burn

your stomach fat will also impact the rest of your

body, ideally cardio would burn more internal fat in

your stomach then in other body parts.

Make sure you keep on checking your hearth rate and

you stay in the cardio zone, also do not over due, I

find I need to do cardio for at least 30 minutes but

less then one hour in order to get benefits.

It takes the first 20 minutes to get warm up and in to

the fat burning mode.

Hope this help

Mark B

--- Cain <austradie@...> wrote:

> GDay fellas.

> Would anyone have any advice about how to lose the

> lipo gut without risking losing weight

> elsewhere.(limbs etc)

> I've been told that cardio is the way as all the ab

> crunches tighten the underlying muscles but don't

> get rid of the visceral belly fat.

> Which cardio would work ?I'm not big on jogging

> anymore.

> Also can anyone recommend a high protein diet for

> weight training that is kind on the digestion?I find

> powders like whey create a lot of bloatedness and

> gas.

> Regards

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

http://www./r/hs

[Guest guest]

, my favorite cardio is with elliptical machines,

it is easier the running and it burns more

calories,and if you apply enough resistance it also

works out and builds your legs.

I also like the fact that you can target different

parts of your legs as well as working the entire legs

by adjusting the inclination.

I have to tell you that any exercise that will burn

your stomach fat will also impact the rest of your

body, ideally cardio would burn more internal fat in

your stomach then in other body parts.

Make sure you keep on checking your hearth rate and

you stay in the cardio zone, also do not over due, I

find I need to do cardio for at least 30 minutes but

less then one hour in order to get benefits.

It takes the first 20 minutes to get warm up and in to

the fat burning mode.

Hope this help

Mark B

--- Cain <austradie@...> wrote:

> GDay fellas.

> Would anyone have any advice about how to lose the

> lipo gut without risking losing weight

> elsewhere.(limbs etc)

> I've been told that cardio is the way as all the ab

> crunches tighten the underlying muscles but don't

> get rid of the visceral belly fat.

> Which cardio would work ?I'm not big on jogging

> anymore.

> Also can anyone recommend a high protein diet for

> weight training that is kind on the digestion?I find

> powders like whey create a lot of bloatedness and

> gas.

> Regards

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

http://www./r/hs

[Guest guest]

So its the Carnitor that makes my body odour really musky.....I thought

it was the Testosterone replacement therapy.....I take Carnitor for my

neuropathy which is bad....I have no idea of its efficacy for anything

though for anything...when I stopped taking it for a few months I

noticed no difference in any aspect..