Re: testosterone as cause of lipo

[Guest guest]

Hugo:

The only thing that comes to mind in your case is a possible high degree of aromatization of testosterone to estradiol (female hormone) in your body. High estradiol has been correlated with fat increase. Have you also gained fat in your breast area? Did you have a lot of fat in the mid section when you started testosterone? Are you an older male? I would get your estradiol level measured just in case

Gynecomastia (breast size increase in men) due to estradiol conversion of testosterone is mediated by an enzyme called aromatase. Men with higher fat content, older men and men with genetic predisposition to aromatization may have fat build up with androgens.

I had a poz friend who I suggested he talked to his doctor about taking Arimidex (an estrogen blocker) who swears that his fat disappeared after he started that drug while continuing his testosterone.

Testosterone gel has actually been shown to decrease waist circumference (mostly by loss of subcutaneous fat) in HIV+ men, as described in the study below.

I am sure Mooney can add something to this.

Effects of testosterone supplementation on whole body and regional fat mass and distribution in human immunodeficiency virus-infected men with abdominal obesity.

Bhasin S, RA, Sattler F, Haubrich R, Alston B, Umbleja T, Shikuma CM; AIDS Clinical Trials Group Protocol A5079 Study Team. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Mar;92(3):1049-57. Epub 2006 Dec 12.

Boston University School of Medicine, Section of Endocrinology, Diabetes, and Nutrition, Boston Medical Center, 670 Albany Street, Second Floor, Boston, Massachusetts 02118, USA. shalender.bhasin@...

BACKGROUND: Whole body and abdominal obesity are associated with increased risk of diabetes mellitus and heart disease. The effects of testosterone therapy on whole body and visceral fat mass in HIV-infected men with abdominal obesity are unknown. OBJECTIVE: The objective of this study was to determine the effects of testosterone therapy on intraabdominal fat mass and whole body fat distribution in HIV-infected men with abdominal obesity. METHODS: IN this multicenter, randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind trial, 88 HIV-positive men with abdominal obesity (waist-to-hip ratio > 0.95 or mid-waist circumference > 100 cm) and total testosterone 125-400 ng/dl, or bioavailable testosterone less than 115 ng/dl, or free testosterone less than 50 pg/ml on stable antiretroviral regimen, and HIV RNA less than 10,000 copies per milliliter were randomized to receive 10 g testosterone gel or placebo daily for 24 wk. Fat mass and distribution were determined by abdominal computerized tomography and dual energy x-ray absorptiometry during wk 0, 12, and 24. We used an intention-to-treat approach and nonparametric statistical methods. RESULTS: Baseline characteristics were balanced between groups. In 75 subjects evaluated, median percent change from baseline to wk 24 in visceral fat did not differ significantly between groups (testosterone 0.3%, placebo 3.1%, P = 0.75). Total (testosterone -1.5%, placebo 4.3%, P = 0.04) and sc (testosterone-7.2%, placebo 8.1%, P < 0.001) abdominal fat mass decreased in testosterone-treated men, but increased in placebo group. Testosterone therapy was associated with significant decrease in whole body, trunk, and appendicular fat mass by dual energy x-ray absorptiometry (all P < 0.001), whereas whole body and trunk fat increased significantly in the placebo group. The percent of individuals reporting a decrease in abdomen (P = 0.01), neck (P = 0.08), and breast size (P = 0.01) at wk 24 was significantly greater in testosterone-treated than placebo-treated men. Testosterone-treated men had greater increase in lean body mass than placebo (testosterone 1.3%, placebo -0.3, P = 0.02). Plasma insulin, fasting glucose, and total high-density lipoprotein and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels did not change significantly. Testosterone therapy was well tolerated. CONCLUSIONS: Testosterone therapy in HIV-positive men with abdominal obesity and low testosterone was associated with greater decrease in whole body, total, and sc abdominal fat mass and a greater increase in lean mass compared to placebo. However, changes in visceral fat mass were not significantly different between groups. Further studies are needed to determine testosterone effects on insulin sensitivity and cardiovascular risk.

Regards, Vergelpowerusa dot org

In a message dated 1/17/2008 6:43:38 P.M. Central Standard Time, jfrdmn@... writes:

Three years later, I have all the trunk fat, too. So, again--has anyone proposed that even in the absence of lipo-correlated meds, T supplementation alone, in a diseased and disregulated immune system, has the potential in genetically susceptible individuals to cause lipo? This would be a very important thing to know, even if plenty of people are in the situation where they would have to supplement T even knowing it might have such effects--HugoStart the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

Hugo:

The only thing that comes to mind in your case is a possible high degree of aromatization of testosterone to estradiol (female hormone) in your body. High estradiol has been correlated with fat increase. Have you also gained fat in your breast area? Did you have a lot of fat in the mid section when you started testosterone? Are you an older male? I would get your estradiol level measured just in case

Gynecomastia (breast size increase in men) due to estradiol conversion of testosterone is mediated by an enzyme called aromatase. Men with higher fat content, older men and men with genetic predisposition to aromatization may have fat build up with androgens.

I had a poz friend who I suggested he talked to his doctor about taking Arimidex (an estrogen blocker) who swears that his fat disappeared after he started that drug while continuing his testosterone.

Testosterone gel has actually been shown to decrease waist circumference (mostly by loss of subcutaneous fat) in HIV+ men, as described in the study below.

I am sure Mooney can add something to this.

Effects of testosterone supplementation on whole body and regional fat mass and distribution in human immunodeficiency virus-infected men with abdominal obesity.

Bhasin S, RA, Sattler F, Haubrich R, Alston B, Umbleja T, Shikuma CM; AIDS Clinical Trials Group Protocol A5079 Study Team. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Mar;92(3):1049-57. Epub 2006 Dec 12.

Boston University School of Medicine, Section of Endocrinology, Diabetes, and Nutrition, Boston Medical Center, 670 Albany Street, Second Floor, Boston, Massachusetts 02118, USA. shalender.bhasin@...

BACKGROUND: Whole body and abdominal obesity are associated with increased risk of diabetes mellitus and heart disease. The effects of testosterone therapy on whole body and visceral fat mass in HIV-infected men with abdominal obesity are unknown. OBJECTIVE: The objective of this study was to determine the effects of testosterone therapy on intraabdominal fat mass and whole body fat distribution in HIV-infected men with abdominal obesity. METHODS: IN this multicenter, randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind trial, 88 HIV-positive men with abdominal obesity (waist-to-hip ratio > 0.95 or mid-waist circumference > 100 cm) and total testosterone 125-400 ng/dl, or bioavailable testosterone less than 115 ng/dl, or free testosterone less than 50 pg/ml on stable antiretroviral regimen, and HIV RNA less than 10,000 copies per milliliter were randomized to receive 10 g testosterone gel or placebo daily for 24 wk. Fat mass and distribution were determined by abdominal computerized tomography and dual energy x-ray absorptiometry during wk 0, 12, and 24. We used an intention-to-treat approach and nonparametric statistical methods. RESULTS: Baseline characteristics were balanced between groups. In 75 subjects evaluated, median percent change from baseline to wk 24 in visceral fat did not differ significantly between groups (testosterone 0.3%, placebo 3.1%, P = 0.75). Total (testosterone -1.5%, placebo 4.3%, P = 0.04) and sc (testosterone-7.2%, placebo 8.1%, P < 0.001) abdominal fat mass decreased in testosterone-treated men, but increased in placebo group. Testosterone therapy was associated with significant decrease in whole body, trunk, and appendicular fat mass by dual energy x-ray absorptiometry (all P < 0.001), whereas whole body and trunk fat increased significantly in the placebo group. The percent of individuals reporting a decrease in abdomen (P = 0.01), neck (P = 0.08), and breast size (P = 0.01) at wk 24 was significantly greater in testosterone-treated than placebo-treated men. Testosterone-treated men had greater increase in lean body mass than placebo (testosterone 1.3%, placebo -0.3, P = 0.02). Plasma insulin, fasting glucose, and total high-density lipoprotein and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels did not change significantly. Testosterone therapy was well tolerated. CONCLUSIONS: Testosterone therapy in HIV-positive men with abdominal obesity and low testosterone was associated with greater decrease in whole body, total, and sc abdominal fat mass and a greater increase in lean mass compared to placebo. However, changes in visceral fat mass were not significantly different between groups. Further studies are needed to determine testosterone effects on insulin sensitivity and cardiovascular risk.

Regards, Vergelpowerusa dot org

In a message dated 1/17/2008 6:43:38 P.M. Central Standard Time, jfrdmn@... writes:

Three years later, I have all the trunk fat, too. So, again--has anyone proposed that even in the absence of lipo-correlated meds, T supplementation alone, in a diseased and disregulated immune system, has the potential in genetically susceptible individuals to cause lipo? This would be a very important thing to know, even if plenty of people are in the situation where they would have to supplement T even knowing it might have such effects--HugoStart the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

I had significant lipodystrophy and high blood lipid levels several

years before I started on a testosterone supplement. In my case it

was when I started on Crixivan and after a few months of that regimen

I had over 800 mg/dl cholesterol and triglyceride levels and

developed a small buffalo hump on my lower neck. I went on HGH for 15

months and that helped significantly. Eventually I went off Crixivan

and the lipid levels were reduced but of course not to normal levels.

Philip

>

> Is there a database that might give clues about what percentage of

men with lipoatroophy and/or lipodystrophy developed lipo NOT in the

context of HIV meds correlated with lipo, but rather in the context of

taking supplemental testosterone in any form? On 's new survey

of T use, I saw at least one post where lipo appeared right after

beginning T, which is what happened to me, too--and I have never taken

HIV meds but have a pretty classic case of lipodystrophy. I take T by

compounded transdermal cream. I had only very mild and insignificant

lipoatrophy and maybe a very subtle lipodystrophy before T, but after

only about 5 months on it, the lipo action became very pronounced

(lost almost all fat from hands and feet). Three years later, I have

all the trunk fat, too. So, again--has anyone proposed that even in

the absence of lipo-correlated meds, T supplementation alone, in a

diseased and disregulated immune system, has the potential in

genetically susceptible individuals to cause lipo? This would be a

very important thing to know, even if plenty of people are in the

situation where they would have to supplement T even knowing it might

have such effects--Hugo

>

[Guest guest]

I had significant lipodystrophy and high blood lipid levels several

years before I started on a testosterone supplement. In my case it

was when I started on Crixivan and after a few months of that regimen

I had over 800 mg/dl cholesterol and triglyceride levels and

developed a small buffalo hump on my lower neck. I went on HGH for 15

months and that helped significantly. Eventually I went off Crixivan

and the lipid levels were reduced but of course not to normal levels.

Philip

>

> Is there a database that might give clues about what percentage of

men with lipoatroophy and/or lipodystrophy developed lipo NOT in the

context of HIV meds correlated with lipo, but rather in the context of

taking supplemental testosterone in any form? On 's new survey

of T use, I saw at least one post where lipo appeared right after

beginning T, which is what happened to me, too--and I have never taken

HIV meds but have a pretty classic case of lipodystrophy. I take T by

compounded transdermal cream. I had only very mild and insignificant

lipoatrophy and maybe a very subtle lipodystrophy before T, but after

only about 5 months on it, the lipo action became very pronounced

(lost almost all fat from hands and feet). Three years later, I have

all the trunk fat, too. So, again--has anyone proposed that even in

the absence of lipo-correlated meds, T supplementation alone, in a

diseased and disregulated immune system, has the potential in

genetically susceptible individuals to cause lipo? This would be a

very important thing to know, even if plenty of people are in the

situation where they would have to supplement T even knowing it might

have such effects--Hugo

>

[Guest guest]

Are Hugo and I the only ones who have experience lipoatrophy in our extremeties after taking testosterone? That is why I quit. I liked all the other results from the Testim Gel, but got tired of my legs announcing my status.

testosterone as cause of lipo

Is there a database that might give clues about what percentage of men with lipoatroophy and/or lipodystrophy developed lipo NOT in the context of HIV meds correlated with lipo, but rather in the context of taking supplemental testosterone in any form? On 's new survey of T use, I saw at least one post where lipo appeared right after beginning T, which is what happened to me, too--and I have never taken HIV meds but have a pretty classic case of lipodystrophy. I take T by compounded transdermal cream. I had only very mild and insignificant lipoatrophy and maybe a very subtle lipodystrophy before T, but after only about 5 months on it, the lipo action became very pronounced (lost almost all fat from hands and feet). Three years later, I have all the trunk fat, too. So, again--has anyone proposed that even in the absence of lipo-correlated meds, T supplementation alone, in a diseased and disregulated immune system,

has the potential in genetically susceptible individuals to cause lipo? This would be a very important thing to know, even if plenty of people are in the situation where they would have to supplement T even knowing it might have such effects--Hugo

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

Are Hugo and I the only ones who have experience lipoatrophy in our extremeties after taking testosterone? That is why I quit. I liked all the other results from the Testim Gel, but got tired of my legs announcing my status.

testosterone as cause of lipo

Is there a database that might give clues about what percentage of men with lipoatroophy and/or lipodystrophy developed lipo NOT in the context of HIV meds correlated with lipo, but rather in the context of taking supplemental testosterone in any form? On 's new survey of T use, I saw at least one post where lipo appeared right after beginning T, which is what happened to me, too--and I have never taken HIV meds but have a pretty classic case of lipodystrophy. I take T by compounded transdermal cream. I had only very mild and insignificant lipoatrophy and maybe a very subtle lipodystrophy before T, but after only about 5 months on it, the lipo action became very pronounced (lost almost all fat from hands and feet). Three years later, I have all the trunk fat, too. So, again--has anyone proposed that even in the absence of lipo-correlated meds, T supplementation alone, in a diseased and disregulated immune system,

has the potential in genetically susceptible individuals to cause lipo? This would be a very important thing to know, even if plenty of people are in the situation where they would have to supplement T even knowing it might have such effects--Hugo

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

Metabolism in poz people can be quite different than neg people. But

look at bodybuilders, in general, and then at contest time. Their

cheeks can look like they have used HIV antiviral meds.

Testosterone is a partner in the release of fatty acids from fat

cells, and certainly can contribute to significant changes in fat

metabolism. GH is another partner in this.

This is a complex scenario, but I think what we are hearing and seeing

show that there can be a problem with T being involved.

Mooney

www.michaelmooney.net

www.medibolics.com

>

> Are Hugo and I the only ones who have experience lipoatrophy in our

extremeties after taking testosterone? That is why I quit. I liked

all the other results from the Testim Gel, but got tired of my legs

announcing my status.

>

>

> testosterone as cause of lipo

>

> Is there a database that might give clues about what percentage of

men with lipoatroophy and/or lipodystrophy developed lipo NOT in the

context of HIV meds correlated with lipo, but rather in the context of

taking supplemental testosterone in any form? On 's new survey

of T use, I saw at least one post where lipo appeared right after

beginning T, which is what happened to me, too--and I have never taken

HIV meds but have a pretty classic case of lipodystrophy. I take T by

compounded transdermal cream. I had only very mild and insignificant

lipoatrophy and maybe a very subtle lipodystrophy before T, but after

only about 5 months on it, the lipo action became very pronounced

(lost almost all fat from hands and feet). Three years later, I have

all the trunk fat, too. So, again--has anyone proposed that even in

the absence of lipo-correlated meds, T supplementation alone, in a

diseased and disregulated immune system, has the potential in

> genetically susceptible individuals to cause lipo? This would be a

very important thing to know, even if plenty of people are in the

situation where they would have to supplement T even knowing it might

have such effects--Hugo

>

>

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

> Looking for last minute shopping deals?

> Find them fast with Search.

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>

[Guest guest]

Metabolism in poz people can be quite different than neg people. But

look at bodybuilders, in general, and then at contest time. Their

cheeks can look like they have used HIV antiviral meds.

Testosterone is a partner in the release of fatty acids from fat

cells, and certainly can contribute to significant changes in fat

metabolism. GH is another partner in this.

This is a complex scenario, but I think what we are hearing and seeing

show that there can be a problem with T being involved.

Mooney

www.michaelmooney.net

www.medibolics.com

>

> Are Hugo and I the only ones who have experience lipoatrophy in our

extremeties after taking testosterone? That is why I quit. I liked

all the other results from the Testim Gel, but got tired of my legs

announcing my status.

>

>

> testosterone as cause of lipo

>

> Is there a database that might give clues about what percentage of

men with lipoatroophy and/or lipodystrophy developed lipo NOT in the

context of HIV meds correlated with lipo, but rather in the context of

taking supplemental testosterone in any form? On 's new survey

of T use, I saw at least one post where lipo appeared right after

beginning T, which is what happened to me, too--and I have never taken

HIV meds but have a pretty classic case of lipodystrophy. I take T by

compounded transdermal cream. I had only very mild and insignificant

lipoatrophy and maybe a very subtle lipodystrophy before T, but after

only about 5 months on it, the lipo action became very pronounced

(lost almost all fat from hands and feet). Three years later, I have

all the trunk fat, too. So, again--has anyone proposed that even in

the absence of lipo-correlated meds, T supplementation alone, in a

diseased and disregulated immune system, has the potential in

> genetically susceptible individuals to cause lipo? This would be a

very important thing to know, even if plenty of people are in the

situation where they would have to supplement T even knowing it might

have such effects--Hugo

>

>

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

> Looking for last minute shopping deals?

> Find them fast with Search.

http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

>