Re: Still deciding what to do about haart

[Guest guest]

Joe,

I'm sure you're going to get this answer from most of us here. YOU SHOULD BE ON MEDS! Are you going to wait until you get PCP until you decide. You're playing with fire here, and I think the odds are NOT in your favor. All the science says you should be on meds under 200 t-cells. You are leaving yourself open for a lot of nasty OI's that can be easily avoided with meds. The newer meds are not as toxic as the older ones and side effects are minimal.

Larry over 25 yrs HIV+, been on meds since 1990. I'd be dead if I wasn't on meds.

-------------- Original message -------------- From: "strongfast77" <strongfast77@...>

Hello all, I am new here but poz for two years that I know of(probably more like 2.5 years) Anyways I was scared at first when myfirst labs came back with Tcells of 279 and % at 20. I decided fromthe start I would not panic but the first year was not easy. I havefluctuated from a Low Tcell count of 116 to around 200 for the pastyear. It's been under 200 pretty much for about the last year or so.My viral load has always been around 50,000 or so. I figured I wouldnot go on meds right away and have never been on meds to this day. Iknow everyone tells me to especially my Dr. But, I have not ever hadan OI. I have only been sick once with Bronchitis which was just thisyear. I asked my Dr. what options I had for medication to treat thebronchitis and expressed a desire not to take antibiotics if there wasanother alternative (just want to make sure antibiotics are reallyneeded) He put me on a low dose of Prednisone for 8 days along with

aninhaler and this worked great and got rid of it. My body was able tofight it with the prednisone when my t-cells were under 200 is thisnormal?Anyways, I'm still not sure when I will go on the haart meds. I feellike if I feel ok and am able to work and do my normal routine likeexercise 3x a week running 3 miles each time and eating great thatI'll be ok. My Dr. thinks perhaps this is why I haven't come down withan OI yet even with the low CD4. Oh, my % now is 10, forgot to mentionthat.What do you all think of this strategy of waiting? Should I have comedown with an OI after being poz for 2.5 years is this unusual withsuch a low count? Maybe my immune system is stronger than the CD4shows. If I get an OI like PCP I figure I'll take the Bactrim and getrid of it. Oh, I'm not taking the Bactrim either currently even thoughmy Dr. wants me to. It just doesn't make logical sense to me to takesuch a strong antibiotic and deal with the side effects for a diseaseI may never even get.Your thoughts are appreciated.Joe.

[Guest guest]

Joe,

I'm sure you're going to get this answer from most of us here. YOU SHOULD BE ON MEDS! Are you going to wait until you get PCP until you decide. You're playing with fire here, and I think the odds are NOT in your favor. All the science says you should be on meds under 200 t-cells. You are leaving yourself open for a lot of nasty OI's that can be easily avoided with meds. The newer meds are not as toxic as the older ones and side effects are minimal.

Larry over 25 yrs HIV+, been on meds since 1990. I'd be dead if I wasn't on meds.

-------------- Original message -------------- From: "strongfast77" <strongfast77@...>

Hello all, I am new here but poz for two years that I know of(probably more like 2.5 years) Anyways I was scared at first when myfirst labs came back with Tcells of 279 and % at 20. I decided fromthe start I would not panic but the first year was not easy. I havefluctuated from a Low Tcell count of 116 to around 200 for the pastyear. It's been under 200 pretty much for about the last year or so.My viral load has always been around 50,000 or so. I figured I wouldnot go on meds right away and have never been on meds to this day. Iknow everyone tells me to especially my Dr. But, I have not ever hadan OI. I have only been sick once with Bronchitis which was just thisyear. I asked my Dr. what options I had for medication to treat thebronchitis and expressed a desire not to take antibiotics if there wasanother alternative (just want to make sure antibiotics are reallyneeded) He put me on a low dose of Prednisone for 8 days along with

aninhaler and this worked great and got rid of it. My body was able tofight it with the prednisone when my t-cells were under 200 is thisnormal?Anyways, I'm still not sure when I will go on the haart meds. I feellike if I feel ok and am able to work and do my normal routine likeexercise 3x a week running 3 miles each time and eating great thatI'll be ok. My Dr. thinks perhaps this is why I haven't come down withan OI yet even with the low CD4. Oh, my % now is 10, forgot to mentionthat.What do you all think of this strategy of waiting? Should I have comedown with an OI after being poz for 2.5 years is this unusual withsuch a low count? Maybe my immune system is stronger than the CD4shows. If I get an OI like PCP I figure I'll take the Bactrim and getrid of it. Oh, I'm not taking the Bactrim either currently even thoughmy Dr. wants me to. It just doesn't make logical sense to me to takesuch a strong antibiotic and deal with the side effects for a diseaseI may never even get.Your thoughts are appreciated.Joe.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/31/2008 10:04:48 Eastern Standard Time, strongfast77@... writes:

Hello all, I am new here but poz for two years that I know of(probably more like 2.5 years) Anyways I was scared at first when myfirst labs came back with Tcells of 279 and % at 20. I decided fromthe start I would not panic but the first year was not easy. I havefluctuated from a Low Tcell count of 116 to around 200 for the pastyear. It's been under 200 pretty much for about the last year or so.My viral load has always been around 50,000 or so. I figured I wouldnot go on meds right away and have never been on meds to this day. Iknow everyone tells me to especially my Dr. But, I have not ever hadan OI. I have only been sick once with Bronchitis which was just thisyear. I asked my Dr. what options I had for medication to treat thebronchitis and expressed a desire not to take antibiotics if there wasanother alternative (just want to make sure antibiotics are reallyneeded) He put me on a low dose of Prednisone for 8 days along with aninhaler and this worked great and got rid of it. My body was able tofight it with the prednisone when my t-cells were under 200 is thisnormal?Anyways, I'm still not sure when I will go on the haart meds. I feellike if I feel ok and am able to work and do my normal routine likeexercise 3x a week running 3 miles each time and eating great thatI'll be ok. My Dr. thinks perhaps this is why I haven't come down withan OI yet even with the low CD4. Oh, my % now is 10, forgot to mentionthat.What do you all think of this strategy of waiting? Should I have comedown with an OI after being poz for 2.5 years is this unusual withsuch a low count? Maybe my immune system is stronger than the CD4shows. If I get an OI like PCP I figure I'll take the Bactrim and getrid of it. Oh, I'm not taking the Bactrim either currently even thoughmy Dr. wants me to. It just doesn't make logical sense to me to takesuch a strong antibiotic and deal with the side effects for a diseaseI may never even get.Your thoughts are appreciated.Joe.

Consider yourself very lucky so far. Your CD4 count and percentage are dangerously low and you are at risk for major OIs. As for PCP, it could mean a prolonged hospital stay. Popping a few Bactrim pills will not do the trick. There were extended periods (over a year) when I took Bactrim as prophylaxis against PCP and I had no observable side effects from taking it.

I would invite you to talk with your doc or another doc who is a specialist in HIV issues. You are a strong candidate for taking meds. In my view, if you don't you are increasingly likely to suffer the same experience as poz guys in the 80s, when there was no treatment.

Prednizone is a very powerful drug, and among other things it can suppress the immune system, something that you can not afford to do with your present numbers.

My recommendation is that you have an in-depth medical evaluation by an expert and that if they recommend treatment that you go on it. Why stay in the early 1980s when you don't have to.

Best,

JeromeStart the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/31/2008 10:04:48 Eastern Standard Time, strongfast77@... writes:

Hello all, I am new here but poz for two years that I know of(probably more like 2.5 years) Anyways I was scared at first when myfirst labs came back with Tcells of 279 and % at 20. I decided fromthe start I would not panic but the first year was not easy. I havefluctuated from a Low Tcell count of 116 to around 200 for the pastyear. It's been under 200 pretty much for about the last year or so.My viral load has always been around 50,000 or so. I figured I wouldnot go on meds right away and have never been on meds to this day. Iknow everyone tells me to especially my Dr. But, I have not ever hadan OI. I have only been sick once with Bronchitis which was just thisyear. I asked my Dr. what options I had for medication to treat thebronchitis and expressed a desire not to take antibiotics if there wasanother alternative (just want to make sure antibiotics are reallyneeded) He put me on a low dose of Prednisone for 8 days along with aninhaler and this worked great and got rid of it. My body was able tofight it with the prednisone when my t-cells were under 200 is thisnormal?Anyways, I'm still not sure when I will go on the haart meds. I feellike if I feel ok and am able to work and do my normal routine likeexercise 3x a week running 3 miles each time and eating great thatI'll be ok. My Dr. thinks perhaps this is why I haven't come down withan OI yet even with the low CD4. Oh, my % now is 10, forgot to mentionthat.What do you all think of this strategy of waiting? Should I have comedown with an OI after being poz for 2.5 years is this unusual withsuch a low count? Maybe my immune system is stronger than the CD4shows. If I get an OI like PCP I figure I'll take the Bactrim and getrid of it. Oh, I'm not taking the Bactrim either currently even thoughmy Dr. wants me to. It just doesn't make logical sense to me to takesuch a strong antibiotic and deal with the side effects for a diseaseI may never even get.Your thoughts are appreciated.Joe.

Consider yourself very lucky so far. Your CD4 count and percentage are dangerously low and you are at risk for major OIs. As for PCP, it could mean a prolonged hospital stay. Popping a few Bactrim pills will not do the trick. There were extended periods (over a year) when I took Bactrim as prophylaxis against PCP and I had no observable side effects from taking it.

I would invite you to talk with your doc or another doc who is a specialist in HIV issues. You are a strong candidate for taking meds. In my view, if you don't you are increasingly likely to suffer the same experience as poz guys in the 80s, when there was no treatment.

Prednizone is a very powerful drug, and among other things it can suppress the immune system, something that you can not afford to do with your present numbers.

My recommendation is that you have an in-depth medical evaluation by an expert and that if they recommend treatment that you go on it. Why stay in the early 1980s when you don't have to.

Best,

JeromeStart the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

From one Joe to another Joe: A little over twelve years ago I felt healthy and fine, too. I worked 50 - 55 hours a week and was busy, though I admite that I was not as physically fit and active as it seems you have been. Then I simply started to lose my energy. I started to go downhill in a short span of time. I barely ate on most days and after work I'd go home and collapse for 10 or maybe 12 hours. At the end of February I left work sick, went home, and my sister dragged me to a little clinic where I was X-rayed and told that I likely had pneumonia. Still I was in denial about the situation and went for another six days before I begged my sister to take me to the emergency room in the middle of the night because I couldn't breath. It was a good thing that I finally relented because I had only twelve tcells and a nasty case of PCP and think I am lucky to be alive now. It's been a long hard road, but even so, I know others have had harder times with OIs and side effects, etc. It isn't perfect now, but medical knowledge, treatment, and drugs have greatly improved in the past twelve years. I wish I had not been in denial all that time -- I never once had an HIV test because I thought I was invincible. If I'd started on treatment sooner I know my path to recovery would have been much easier in many ways. No one can make you start on a drug regimen, but I do hope you will reconsider and not wait till you come down with an opportunistic infection. They're all nasty, and you don't have a say in which one tries to take over. Joestrongfast77 <strongfast77@...> wrote: Hello all, I am new here but poz for two years that I know of(probably more like 2.5 years) Anyways I was scared at first when myfirst labs came back with Tcells of 279 and % at 20. I decided fromthe start I would not panic but the first year was not easy. I havefluctuated from a Low Tcell count of 116 to around 200 for the pastyear. It's been under 200 pretty much for about the last year or so.My viral load has always been around 50,000 or so. I figured I wouldnot go on meds right away and have never been on meds to this day. Iknow everyone tells me to especially my Dr. But, I have not ever hadan OI. I have only been sick once with Bronchitis which was just thisyear. I asked my

Dr. what options I had for medication to treat thebronchitis and expressed a desire not to take antibiotics if there wasanother alternative (just want to make sure antibiotics are reallyneeded) He put me on a low dose of Prednisone for 8 days along with aninhaler and this worked great and got rid of it. My body was able tofight it with the prednisone when my t-cells were under 200 is thisnormal?Anyways, I'm still not sure when I will go on the haart meds. I feellike if I feel ok and am able to work and do my normal routine likeexercise 3x a week running 3 miles each time and eating great thatI'll be ok. My Dr. thinks perhaps this is why I haven't come down withan OI yet even with the low CD4. Oh, my % now is 10, forgot to mentionthat.What do you all think of this strategy of waiting? Should I have comedown with an OI after being poz for 2.5 years is this unusual withsuch a low count? Maybe my immune system is

stronger than the CD4shows. If I get an OI like PCP I figure I'll take the Bactrim and getrid of it. Oh, I'm not taking the Bactrim either currently even thoughmy Dr. wants me to. It just doesn't make logical sense to me to takesuch a strong antibiotic and deal with the side effects for a diseaseI may never even get.Your thoughts are appreciated.Joe.

[Guest guest]

From one Joe to another Joe: A little over twelve years ago I felt healthy and fine, too. I worked 50 - 55 hours a week and was busy, though I admite that I was not as physically fit and active as it seems you have been. Then I simply started to lose my energy. I started to go downhill in a short span of time. I barely ate on most days and after work I'd go home and collapse for 10 or maybe 12 hours. At the end of February I left work sick, went home, and my sister dragged me to a little clinic where I was X-rayed and told that I likely had pneumonia. Still I was in denial about the situation and went for another six days before I begged my sister to take me to the emergency room in the middle of the night because I couldn't breath. It was a good thing that I finally relented because I had only twelve tcells and a nasty case of PCP and think I am lucky to be alive now. It's been a long hard road, but even so, I know others have had harder times with OIs and side effects, etc. It isn't perfect now, but medical knowledge, treatment, and drugs have greatly improved in the past twelve years. I wish I had not been in denial all that time -- I never once had an HIV test because I thought I was invincible. If I'd started on treatment sooner I know my path to recovery would have been much easier in many ways. No one can make you start on a drug regimen, but I do hope you will reconsider and not wait till you come down with an opportunistic infection. They're all nasty, and you don't have a say in which one tries to take over. Joestrongfast77 <strongfast77@...> wrote: Hello all, I am new here but poz for two years that I know of(probably more like 2.5 years) Anyways I was scared at first when myfirst labs came back with Tcells of 279 and % at 20. I decided fromthe start I would not panic but the first year was not easy. I havefluctuated from a Low Tcell count of 116 to around 200 for the pastyear. It's been under 200 pretty much for about the last year or so.My viral load has always been around 50,000 or so. I figured I wouldnot go on meds right away and have never been on meds to this day. Iknow everyone tells me to especially my Dr. But, I have not ever hadan OI. I have only been sick once with Bronchitis which was just thisyear. I asked my

Dr. what options I had for medication to treat thebronchitis and expressed a desire not to take antibiotics if there wasanother alternative (just want to make sure antibiotics are reallyneeded) He put me on a low dose of Prednisone for 8 days along with aninhaler and this worked great and got rid of it. My body was able tofight it with the prednisone when my t-cells were under 200 is thisnormal?Anyways, I'm still not sure when I will go on the haart meds. I feellike if I feel ok and am able to work and do my normal routine likeexercise 3x a week running 3 miles each time and eating great thatI'll be ok. My Dr. thinks perhaps this is why I haven't come down withan OI yet even with the low CD4. Oh, my % now is 10, forgot to mentionthat.What do you all think of this strategy of waiting? Should I have comedown with an OI after being poz for 2.5 years is this unusual withsuch a low count? Maybe my immune system is

stronger than the CD4shows. If I get an OI like PCP I figure I'll take the Bactrim and getrid of it. Oh, I'm not taking the Bactrim either currently even thoughmy Dr. wants me to. It just doesn't make logical sense to me to takesuch a strong antibiotic and deal with the side effects for a diseaseI may never even get.Your thoughts are appreciated.Joe.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/2/2008 00:25:32 Eastern Standard Time, strongfast77@... writes:

I have spoken to my Dr. many times. I think he's wondering why I have not come down with an OI yet with such low T-cells. I think it's due to my diet and supplements and exerciseroutine. Perhaps. But I think it's good luck.

Stories about people who never took meds and became sick are not necessarily comparativeto my situation because those people probably were doing unhealthy things like drink, smoke, party, eating crappy food and not exercising. You have to compare apples to apples. It sounds like you are trying to justify not going on HAART. All those things that you list are unhealthy but I don't think any of them will degrade the immune system.

I respect my Dr. however I feel I would have been on meds unnecessarily for the last 2 years. I feel waiting as long as possible is better to not have the bad chemotoxic effectson the body that HAART has. While most people say it's well tolerated, this does not meanthat HAART isn't doing damage to your body because everything that I've read says it does.What do you all think? If you choose to live in the pre-HAART era, it is completely your choice. But do you really respect your doc? The effects of contemporary HAART are not trivial, but they are minor compared with some of the major OIs such as PCP. If your HIV viral load was -- say -- 20,000 and your CD4 count was 1,100 with a 30% percentage, HAART would not be immediately called for. This is the circumstance of a close friend, and he is not going on HIV meds until his counts get into the range where treatment is strongly recommended.

You might want to talk with other HIV-experienced physicians to get a range of opinions.

Good luck!

Joe.

Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/2/2008 00:25:32 Eastern Standard Time, strongfast77@... writes:

I have spoken to my Dr. many times. I think he's wondering why I have not come down with an OI yet with such low T-cells. I think it's due to my diet and supplements and exerciseroutine. Perhaps. But I think it's good luck.

Stories about people who never took meds and became sick are not necessarily comparativeto my situation because those people probably were doing unhealthy things like drink, smoke, party, eating crappy food and not exercising. You have to compare apples to apples. It sounds like you are trying to justify not going on HAART. All those things that you list are unhealthy but I don't think any of them will degrade the immune system.

I respect my Dr. however I feel I would have been on meds unnecessarily for the last 2 years. I feel waiting as long as possible is better to not have the bad chemotoxic effectson the body that HAART has. While most people say it's well tolerated, this does not meanthat HAART isn't doing damage to your body because everything that I've read says it does.What do you all think? If you choose to live in the pre-HAART era, it is completely your choice. But do you really respect your doc? The effects of contemporary HAART are not trivial, but they are minor compared with some of the major OIs such as PCP. If your HIV viral load was -- say -- 20,000 and your CD4 count was 1,100 with a 30% percentage, HAART would not be immediately called for. This is the circumstance of a close friend, and he is not going on HIV meds until his counts get into the range where treatment is strongly recommended.

You might want to talk with other HIV-experienced physicians to get a range of opinions.

Good luck!

Joe.

Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.

[Guest guest]

I have spoken to my Dr. many times. I think he's wondering why I have not come down with an OI yet with such low T-cells. I think it's due to my diet and supplements and exerciseroutine. Stories about people who never took meds and became sick are not necessarily comparativeto my situation because those people probably were doing unhealthy things like drink, smoke, party, eating crappy food and not exercising. You have to compare apples to apples.I respect my Dr. however I feel I would have been on meds unnecessarily for the last 2 years. I feel waiting as long as possible is better to not have the bad chemotoxic effectson the body that HAART has. While most people say it's well

tolerated, this does not meanthat HAART isn't doing damage to your body because everything that I've read says it does.What do you all think?Joe. Re: Still deciding what to do about haart

In a message dated 1/31/2008 10:04:48 Eastern Standard Time, strongfast77 writes:

Hello all, I am new here but poz for two years that I know of(probably more like 2.5 years) Anyways I was scared at first when myfirst labs came back with Tcells of 279 and % at 20. I decided fromthe start I would not panic but the first year was not easy. I havefluctuated from a Low Tcell count of 116 to around 200 for the pastyear. It's been under 200 pretty much for about the last year or so.My viral load has always been around 50,000 or so. I figured I wouldnot go on meds right away and have never been on meds to this day. Iknow everyone tells me to especially my Dr. But, I have not ever hadan OI. I have only been sick once with Bronchitis which was just thisyear. I asked my Dr. what options I had for medication to treat thebronchitis and expressed a desire not to take antibiotics if there wasanother alternative (just want to make sure antibiotics are reallyneeded) He put me on a low dose of Prednisone for 8 days along with aninhaler and this worked great and got rid of it. My body was able tofight it with the prednisone when my t-cells were under 200 is thisnormal?Anyways, I'm still not sure when I will go on the haart meds. I feellike if I feel ok and am able to work and do my normal routine likeexercise 3x a week running 3 miles each time and eating great thatI'll be ok. My Dr. thinks perhaps this is why I haven't come down withan OI yet even with the low CD4. Oh, my % now is 10, forgot to mentionthat.What do you all think of this strategy of waiting? Should I have comedown with an OI after being poz for 2.5 years is this unusual withsuch a low count? Maybe my immune system is stronger than the CD4shows. If I get an OI like PCP I figure I'll take the Bactrim and getrid of it. Oh, I'm not taking the Bactrim either currently even thoughmy Dr. wants me to. It just doesn't make logical sense to me to takesuch a strong antibiotic and deal with the side effects for a diseaseI may never even get.Your thoughts are appreciated.Joe.

Consider yourself very lucky so far. Your CD4 count and percentage are dangerously low and you are at risk for major OIs. As for PCP, it could mean a prolonged hospital stay. Popping a few Bactrim pills will not do the trick. There were extended periods (over a year) when I took Bactrim as prophylaxis against PCP and I had no observable side effects from taking it.

I would invite you to talk with your doc or another doc who is a specialist in HIV issues. You are a strong candidate for taking meds. In my view, if you don't you are increasingly likely to suffer the same experience as poz guys in the 80s, when there was no treatment.

Prednizone is a very powerful drug, and among other things it can suppress the immune system, something that you can not afford to do with your present numbers.

My recommendation is that you have an in-depth medical evaluation by an expert and that if they recommend treatment that you go on it. Why stay in the early 1980s when you don't have to.

Best,

JeromeStart the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

I have spoken to my Dr. many times. I think he's wondering why I have not come down with an OI yet with such low T-cells. I think it's due to my diet and supplements and exerciseroutine. Stories about people who never took meds and became sick are not necessarily comparativeto my situation because those people probably were doing unhealthy things like drink, smoke, party, eating crappy food and not exercising. You have to compare apples to apples.I respect my Dr. however I feel I would have been on meds unnecessarily for the last 2 years. I feel waiting as long as possible is better to not have the bad chemotoxic effectson the body that HAART has. While most people say it's well

tolerated, this does not meanthat HAART isn't doing damage to your body because everything that I've read says it does.What do you all think?Joe. Re: Still deciding what to do about haart

In a message dated 1/31/2008 10:04:48 Eastern Standard Time, strongfast77 writes:

Hello all, I am new here but poz for two years that I know of(probably more like 2.5 years) Anyways I was scared at first when myfirst labs came back with Tcells of 279 and % at 20. I decided fromthe start I would not panic but the first year was not easy. I havefluctuated from a Low Tcell count of 116 to around 200 for the pastyear. It's been under 200 pretty much for about the last year or so.My viral load has always been around 50,000 or so. I figured I wouldnot go on meds right away and have never been on meds to this day. Iknow everyone tells me to especially my Dr. But, I have not ever hadan OI. I have only been sick once with Bronchitis which was just thisyear. I asked my Dr. what options I had for medication to treat thebronchitis and expressed a desire not to take antibiotics if there wasanother alternative (just want to make sure antibiotics are reallyneeded) He put me on a low dose of Prednisone for 8 days along with aninhaler and this worked great and got rid of it. My body was able tofight it with the prednisone when my t-cells were under 200 is thisnormal?Anyways, I'm still not sure when I will go on the haart meds. I feellike if I feel ok and am able to work and do my normal routine likeexercise 3x a week running 3 miles each time and eating great thatI'll be ok. My Dr. thinks perhaps this is why I haven't come down withan OI yet even with the low CD4. Oh, my % now is 10, forgot to mentionthat.What do you all think of this strategy of waiting? Should I have comedown with an OI after being poz for 2.5 years is this unusual withsuch a low count? Maybe my immune system is stronger than the CD4shows. If I get an OI like PCP I figure I'll take the Bactrim and getrid of it. Oh, I'm not taking the Bactrim either currently even thoughmy Dr. wants me to. It just doesn't make logical sense to me to takesuch a strong antibiotic and deal with the side effects for a diseaseI may never even get.Your thoughts are appreciated.Joe.

Consider yourself very lucky so far. Your CD4 count and percentage are dangerously low and you are at risk for major OIs. As for PCP, it could mean a prolonged hospital stay. Popping a few Bactrim pills will not do the trick. There were extended periods (over a year) when I took Bactrim as prophylaxis against PCP and I had no observable side effects from taking it.

I would invite you to talk with your doc or another doc who is a specialist in HIV issues. You are a strong candidate for taking meds. In my view, if you don't you are increasingly likely to suffer the same experience as poz guys in the 80s, when there was no treatment.

Prednizone is a very powerful drug, and among other things it can suppress the immune system, something that you can not afford to do with your present numbers.

My recommendation is that you have an in-depth medical evaluation by an expert and that if they recommend treatment that you go on it. Why stay in the early 1980s when you don't have to.

Best,

JeromeStart the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

" What do you all think? Joe. "

What I think? That you are in denial, that you overestimate yourself and

underestimate your fellow hiv-positives.

Your presumption about why others get an OI (they 'drink, smoke, party,

eating crappy food and not exercising') is derogative.

And actually I am wondering why you ask us the same question again, since

the previous answers were clear, constructive and evidence based.

One would actually start to think one is hoaxed.

I wish you wisdom and health,

[Guest guest]

" What do you all think? Joe. "

What I think? That you are in denial, that you overestimate yourself and

underestimate your fellow hiv-positives.

Your presumption about why others get an OI (they 'drink, smoke, party,

eating crappy food and not exercising') is derogative.

And actually I am wondering why you ask us the same question again, since

the previous answers were clear, constructive and evidence based.

One would actually start to think one is hoaxed.

I wish you wisdom and health,

[Guest guest]

I feel waiting as long as possible is better to not have the bad chemotoxic effectson the body that HAART has. While most people say it's well tolerated, this does not meanthat HAART isn't doing damage to your body because everything that I've read says it does.What do you all think?Hey Joe--I think there is a lot to be said for certain supplements in helping slow HIV disease progression. But you have progressed (your CD4 count is low--how low?). I think recreational drugs can be dangerous, not because they lower T cell counts (they don't) but because they make other aspects of immune function potentially deteriorate (especially drugs like coke and speed). Back before combination antiretroviral therapy, I knew people who lived for long periods without any meds. Back then, there was pretty much just AZT, then ddI and ddC. They sucked as monotherapy and at best prevented people from dying right away. But too many died. I don't think supplements are adequate. I think the evidence is showing more and more that starting earlier is better and the body is better able to handle the toxicities. That being said, I know that most of my friends today living with HIV are doing so because of judicious use of ARV meds. And I think you should start BEFORE you develop an OI. So far, you have been fortunate!But it is a bit of a crap shoot. Don't wait too long--and yes, some supplements can also help mitigate or possibly prevent side effects from developing. There are data for agents like fish oils for blood lipids, acetylcarnitine for neuropathy, a good multi, some antioxidants like NAC and alpha lipoic acid.So think about a regimen you could tolerate. At least now there are LOTS of choices and, with a genotype test, you can plan a regimen that will work for you. Of course, the decision is ALWAYS yours and yours alone to make. If you choose to start a regimen, you have lots of people here to help support and guide that decision with their own experiences...and at the end of the day, you will have to figure out what works best for you -- partly through trial and error (hopefully few errors)--that is, a regimen that might make someone really feel awful may be perfectly fine for you and vice versa. M.

[Guest guest]

I feel waiting as long as possible is better to not have the bad chemotoxic effectson the body that HAART has. While most people say it's well tolerated, this does not meanthat HAART isn't doing damage to your body because everything that I've read says it does.What do you all think?Hey Joe--I think there is a lot to be said for certain supplements in helping slow HIV disease progression. But you have progressed (your CD4 count is low--how low?). I think recreational drugs can be dangerous, not because they lower T cell counts (they don't) but because they make other aspects of immune function potentially deteriorate (especially drugs like coke and speed). Back before combination antiretroviral therapy, I knew people who lived for long periods without any meds. Back then, there was pretty much just AZT, then ddI and ddC. They sucked as monotherapy and at best prevented people from dying right away. But too many died. I don't think supplements are adequate. I think the evidence is showing more and more that starting earlier is better and the body is better able to handle the toxicities. That being said, I know that most of my friends today living with HIV are doing so because of judicious use of ARV meds. And I think you should start BEFORE you develop an OI. So far, you have been fortunate!But it is a bit of a crap shoot. Don't wait too long--and yes, some supplements can also help mitigate or possibly prevent side effects from developing. There are data for agents like fish oils for blood lipids, acetylcarnitine for neuropathy, a good multi, some antioxidants like NAC and alpha lipoic acid.So think about a regimen you could tolerate. At least now there are LOTS of choices and, with a genotype test, you can plan a regimen that will work for you. Of course, the decision is ALWAYS yours and yours alone to make. If you choose to start a regimen, you have lots of people here to help support and guide that decision with their own experiences...and at the end of the day, you will have to figure out what works best for you -- partly through trial and error (hopefully few errors)--that is, a regimen that might make someone really feel awful may be perfectly fine for you and vice versa. M.

[Guest guest]

>

> .....Stories about people who never took meds and became sick are

not necessarily comparative

> to my situation because those people probably were doing unhealthy

things like drink, smoke, party,

> eating crappy food and not exercising. You have to compare apples

to apples.....

Joe,

this is pure folly. Apple to apple here, many (maybe most of us)

didn't do drugs, smoke or drank. I didn't. I ate really healthy, I

always have, I took many supplements, (I spent hundreds per month)

Exercise is a very big part of my life, I'm athletic. AND I GOT SICK.

Blaming disease progression on peoples poor life style habits in

HIV/AIDS doesn't hold water. Too many of us have had happy, healthy

lives and we got sick anyway. (OK, I did take a little LSD and smoked

a little pot in high school...It was my hippy times that led me to

holistic health at the age of 17, 30 years ago)

You are tempting fate with your denial. Your lowest t-cells count and

percentages will haunt you for the rest of your life.

My objection to this whole crappola idea of those of us who got sick

must have been drug users, alcoholics, smokers, etc. is just hurtful

and most of all stupid. I'm sorry to be so abrupt, but you are

insulting my friends who died and those of us who were near death by

using this as an excuse for you to not start meds.

As a guy who has always lived a healthy life this stuff just pisses

me off.

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> Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> http://www./r/hs

>

[Guest guest]

>

> .....Stories about people who never took meds and became sick are

not necessarily comparative

> to my situation because those people probably were doing unhealthy

things like drink, smoke, party,

> eating crappy food and not exercising. You have to compare apples

to apples.....

Joe,

this is pure folly. Apple to apple here, many (maybe most of us)

didn't do drugs, smoke or drank. I didn't. I ate really healthy, I

always have, I took many supplements, (I spent hundreds per month)

Exercise is a very big part of my life, I'm athletic. AND I GOT SICK.

Blaming disease progression on peoples poor life style habits in

HIV/AIDS doesn't hold water. Too many of us have had happy, healthy

lives and we got sick anyway. (OK, I did take a little LSD and smoked

a little pot in high school...It was my hippy times that led me to

holistic health at the age of 17, 30 years ago)

You are tempting fate with your denial. Your lowest t-cells count and

percentages will haunt you for the rest of your life.

My objection to this whole crappola idea of those of us who got sick

must have been drug users, alcoholics, smokers, etc. is just hurtful

and most of all stupid. I'm sorry to be so abrupt, but you are

insulting my friends who died and those of us who were near death by

using this as an excuse for you to not start meds.

As a guy who has always lived a healthy life this stuff just pisses

me off.

>

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>

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> #ygrp-lc{

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______________________________________________________________________

______________

> Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> http://www./r/hs

>

[Guest guest]

Joe and others-

Please be reminded that HIV itself is toxic to the body and various

organ systems. HAART shuts down its presence and those bad long term

effects of the virus, too. The new medications out there, and there

probably won't be many new ones for the next five years, have been

designed to be used at lower dosages than last century's round of

medications. Yes, proper nutrition, supplements and exercise are

extremely important in helping the body cope with stresses of living

in 21st century society, as would meditation or other means to cope

with mental health stress. Have you ever had a blood titre for

toxoplasmosis? If you are positive, then that's another indication for

the use of bactrim to prevent toxo lesions in the brain from causing a

stroke. If you can take supplements you could also be taking acyclovir

to prevent painful herpes zoster outbreaks and to help prevent

spreading genital herpes which is present but undiagnosed in over 50%

of those hiv postiive. Acyclovir is probably the most easy to take

drug on the market wtih no side effects. Really, really consider what

you can do to prevent situations from happening. I won't wish you good

luck, as you already have that in being fortunate in your continued

health. Just keep looking both ways before crossing the street!

Goldman

San Francisco, CA

[Guest guest]

Joe and others-

Please be reminded that HIV itself is toxic to the body and various

organ systems. HAART shuts down its presence and those bad long term

effects of the virus, too. The new medications out there, and there

probably won't be many new ones for the next five years, have been

designed to be used at lower dosages than last century's round of

medications. Yes, proper nutrition, supplements and exercise are

extremely important in helping the body cope with stresses of living

in 21st century society, as would meditation or other means to cope

with mental health stress. Have you ever had a blood titre for

toxoplasmosis? If you are positive, then that's another indication for

the use of bactrim to prevent toxo lesions in the brain from causing a

stroke. If you can take supplements you could also be taking acyclovir

to prevent painful herpes zoster outbreaks and to help prevent

spreading genital herpes which is present but undiagnosed in over 50%

of those hiv postiive. Acyclovir is probably the most easy to take

drug on the market wtih no side effects. Really, really consider what

you can do to prevent situations from happening. I won't wish you good

luck, as you already have that in being fortunate in your continued

health. Just keep looking both ways before crossing the street!

Goldman

San Francisco, CA

[Guest guest]

I've been positive 22 years, with an AIDS diagnosis in '93, and having lost most of my friends in the 80's to AIDS (including some real "health nuts"), I'd say make a reasoned decision. Being treatment naive you may have options for a regimen that has the least side-effect profile. Also, there are some things to lessen side-effects. I waited until '89 to start AZT, but my numbers (and definite signs of immune dysfunction) told me that the toxicity was a better option than what I'd sat through with loved ones. I don't know if it helped or not, but I tolerated it well and made it to the era of HAART - which brought me back from the brink in 1996. And now the choices are a lot better. I've had terrible experiences with side-effects, but they're still better than struggling to survive day to day. Also, HIV can do plenty of damage on its own. Meanwhile, I still push for more attention to the side-effects like lipo. HIV is a life-changing diagnosis. Wish we had better choices, but that's what we have now until more breakthroughs come down the pike.

I agree - living in the 80's just doesn't cut it now. Playing the odds is not exactly proactive, and sometimes denial is mistaken for a positive attitude. There's enough science and long-term survivors now to get sound advice on the issue of when to treat HIV.

BG

[Norton AntiSpam] Re: Still deciding what to do about haart

In a message dated 2/2/2008 00:25:32 Eastern Standard Time, strongfast77@... writes:

I have spoken to my Dr. many times. I think he's wondering why I have not come down with an OI yet with such low T-cells. I think it's due to my diet and supplements and exerciseroutine. Perhaps. But I think it's good luck.

Stories about people who never took meds and became sick are not necessarily comparativeto my situation because those people probably were doing unhealthy things like drink, smoke, party, eating crappy food and not exercising. You have to compare apples to apples. It sounds like you are trying to justify not going on HAART. All those things that you list are unhealthy but I don't think any of them will degrade the immune system.

I respect my Dr. however I feel I would have been on meds unnecessarily for the last 2 years. I feel waiting as long as possible is better to not have the bad chemotoxic effectson the body that HAART has. While most people say it's well tolerated, this does not meanthat HAART isn't doing damage to your body because everything that I've read says it does.What do you all think? If you choose to live in the pre-HAART era, it is completely your choice. But do you really respect your doc? The effects of contemporary HAART are not trivial, but they are minor compared with some of the major OIs such as PCP. If your HIV viral load was -- say -- 20,000 and your CD4 count was 1,100 with a 30% percentage, HAART would not be immediately called for. This is the circumstance of a close friend, and he is not going on HIV meds until his counts get into the range where treatment is strongly recommended.

You might want to talk with other HIV-experienced physicians to get a range of opinions.

Good luck!

Joe.

[Guest guest]

I've been positive 22 years, with an AIDS diagnosis in '93, and having lost most of my friends in the 80's to AIDS (including some real "health nuts"), I'd say make a reasoned decision. Being treatment naive you may have options for a regimen that has the least side-effect profile. Also, there are some things to lessen side-effects. I waited until '89 to start AZT, but my numbers (and definite signs of immune dysfunction) told me that the toxicity was a better option than what I'd sat through with loved ones. I don't know if it helped or not, but I tolerated it well and made it to the era of HAART - which brought me back from the brink in 1996. And now the choices are a lot better. I've had terrible experiences with side-effects, but they're still better than struggling to survive day to day. Also, HIV can do plenty of damage on its own. Meanwhile, I still push for more attention to the side-effects like lipo. HIV is a life-changing diagnosis. Wish we had better choices, but that's what we have now until more breakthroughs come down the pike.

I agree - living in the 80's just doesn't cut it now. Playing the odds is not exactly proactive, and sometimes denial is mistaken for a positive attitude. There's enough science and long-term survivors now to get sound advice on the issue of when to treat HIV.

BG

[Norton AntiSpam] Re: Still deciding what to do about haart

In a message dated 2/2/2008 00:25:32 Eastern Standard Time, strongfast77@... writes:

I have spoken to my Dr. many times. I think he's wondering why I have not come down with an OI yet with such low T-cells. I think it's due to my diet and supplements and exerciseroutine. Perhaps. But I think it's good luck.

Stories about people who never took meds and became sick are not necessarily comparativeto my situation because those people probably were doing unhealthy things like drink, smoke, party, eating crappy food and not exercising. You have to compare apples to apples. It sounds like you are trying to justify not going on HAART. All those things that you list are unhealthy but I don't think any of them will degrade the immune system.

I respect my Dr. however I feel I would have been on meds unnecessarily for the last 2 years. I feel waiting as long as possible is better to not have the bad chemotoxic effectson the body that HAART has. While most people say it's well tolerated, this does not meanthat HAART isn't doing damage to your body because everything that I've read says it does.What do you all think? If you choose to live in the pre-HAART era, it is completely your choice. But do you really respect your doc? The effects of contemporary HAART are not trivial, but they are minor compared with some of the major OIs such as PCP. If your HIV viral load was -- say -- 20,000 and your CD4 count was 1,100 with a 30% percentage, HAART would not be immediately called for. This is the circumstance of a close friend, and he is not going on HIV meds until his counts get into the range where treatment is strongly recommended.

You might want to talk with other HIV-experienced physicians to get a range of opinions.

Good luck!

Joe.

[Guest guest]

I have spoken to my Dr. many times. I think he's wondering why I have not come down with an OI yet with such low T-cells. I think it's due to my diet and supplements and exerciseDon't forget blind luck. There is no evidence to suggest that supplements will help you avoid the eventual collapse of your immune system, and complications of pnemonia.JB