Re: Incontinence

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/9/01 8:56:07 AM Central Standard Time,

maura_devine@... writes:

>

> Hi Patti,

>

> My daughter, Adelena is 8.5yrs old and still is not completely trained.

Her

>

> therapists, me, her sister, grandpa and school all are working on

> this......but, if she is having fun....she will sit in whatever! The dr.

> and therapists are not too worried, they say that she just may not be

> completely physically/mentally ready for this(boy I sure am)lol

HI

Sara too is scheduled trained.....meaning we have to remind her Having BMs

is the main trouble, the only way we know they are coming is if she tells us

her tummy hurts. Her Ped tells us the same thing, he thinks the low tone is

causing the trouble.

Kathy mom to Sara 9

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/9/01 7:52:40 AM Central Standard Time, bpdstein@...

writes:

> . My daughter was trained at age 2 so I guess she is fortunate not to have

> this problem. I do not want to mislead this new mom does anyone have any

> input on incontinence and ds?

> Thanks

> mom of Dee(28)

>

>

>

I think that there are very few who never learn to control their bladder and

bowel functions. (and my guess would be some of them have other physical

problems that may interfere, not all, but some) It does take some of them

longer..... was 6, and I guess I'd have to say part of the problem was

the fact that I didn't toss the pullups sooner. Live an learn.

Congratulations to the new parents. :-)

Joy Mom to (11)

[Guest guest]

Whether she potty trains or not, odds are the child will imitate everyone

else in the house sooner or later.

granny, never potty-trained a kid in her life

---

" For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:

and the government shall be upon his shoulder:

and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor,

The mighty God, The everlasting Father,

The Prince of Peace. " -- The Prophet Isaiah

http://home.earthlink.net/~bspyle

Incontinence

> Hi,

> My name is Patti and I am fairly new to this group. I have a daughter that

is 28 and is ds. My dear friend called to tell me that her daughter had a

baby girl that is ds. The mom wants to know if she will be able to be potty

trained. My daughter was trained at age 2 so I guess she is fortunate not

to have this problem. I do not want to mislead this new mom does anyone have

any input on incontinence and ds?

> Thanks

> mom of Dee(28)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Patti,

My daughter, Adelena is 8.5yrs old and still is not completely trained. Her

therapists, me, her sister, grandpa and school all are working on

this......but, if she is having fun....she will sit in whatever! The dr.

and therapists are not too worried, they say that she just may not be

completely physically/mentally ready for this(boy I sure am)lol

----Original Message Follows----

From: bpdstein@...

egroups

Subject: Incontinence

Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 13:51:06 -0000

Hi,

My name is Patti and I am fairly new to this group. I have a daughter that

is 28 and is ds. My dear friend called to tell me that her daughter had a

baby girl that is ds. The mom wants to know if she will be able to be potty

trained. My daughter was trained at age 2 so I guess she is fortunate not

to have this problem. I do not want to mislead this new mom does anyone have

any input on incontinence and ds?

Thanks

mom of Dee(28)

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Dee,

My daughter is 13 and she, too was trained at age 2. She couldn't walk or

talk at the time but was wetting at pretty consistent times. I started

putting her on the potty chair when she woke up in the morning, after meals

and before bed. She handled in all in no time. My NDS daughter took a lot

longer and was much more difficult to get trained!!! I don't believe there

is any reason to believe a child with DS can't be trained - albeit some are

harder to train than others just like the rest of the our children. Good

luck. Kathy

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathy,

Adelena does have low motor tone (even with all the therapies)....She is

extremely flexible.........this girl can do a split like you wouldn't

believe! I would end up in the emergency room if I did that (lol)

----Original Message Follows----

From: B4alltoday@...

maura_devine@..., bpdstein@..., egroups

Subject: Re: Incontinence

Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 11:07:19 EST

In a message dated 1/9/01 8:56:07 AM Central Standard Time,

maura_devine@... writes:

>

> Hi Patti,

>

> My daughter, Adelena is 8.5yrs old and still is not completely trained.

Her

>

> therapists, me, her sister, grandpa and school all are working on

> this......but, if she is having fun....she will sit in whatever! The

dr.

> and therapists are not too worried, they say that she just may not be

> completely physically/mentally ready for this(boy I sure am)lol

HI

Sara too is scheduled trained.....meaning we have to remind her Having

BMs

is the main trouble, the only way we know they are coming is if she tells us

her tummy hurts. Her Ped tells us the same thing, he thinks the low tone is

causing the trouble.

Kathy mom to Sara 9

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

granny, never potty-trained a kid in her life

---

Granny, how did you manage " not " potty training your kids (LOL). I'm sure they

are potty trained so how did that come about? TIA for the information.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/9/01 4:29:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, CKEverett@...

writes:

<< My daughter is 13 and she, too was trained at age 2. She couldn't walk or

talk at the time but was wetting at pretty consistent times. I started

putting her on the potty chair when she woke up in the morning, after meals

and before bed. >>

LOL, Kathy......I'd have to say that YOU were trained to put her on the

potty....not that SHE was trained?!?! IMHO, a kid isn't truly " potty

trained " until they are going of their own volition when they have to

go........not when they are put there or are reminded to go there....

However, I (as probably most of us on this list were) was THRILLED when Jim

got to the point of going when he was reminded to go about once an

hour.....and OUT of those darned expensive pull-ups!

Using that definition, Jimmy was finally potty trained at age 7. (He was

going with reminders with very few accidents at about age 5).

[Guest guest]

,

I wrote that I " put " on the potty chair because at that time she

couldn't walk or talk. As she was my first child I wasn't sure how to go

about the training at all. The daycare center she was at 2 days a week

actually suggested I try the potty chair thing. Without " putting " her on

there I didn't know how she could tell me she had to go or how she would get

there. She did learn the sign for potty (which we still use today) and she

learned to crawl there herself within a month. She still as you said trained

herself. I can't say I can take much credit for it.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

RE: Incontinence

> granny, never potty-trained a kid in her life

> ---

>

>

>

> Granny, how did you manage " not " potty training your kids (LOL). I'm sure

they are potty trained so how did that come about? TIA for the information.

>

>

Most children in the world are not potty trained, . Most kids in the US

aren't. It's a middle-class activity and a futile one at that. How many

children do you know who do no have a urinary or some other problem, yet do

not have day-time control by the time they enter kindergarten? Children just

naturally imitate adults. If you use the toilet, odds are overwhelming your

kids will too.

granny

---

" For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:

and the government shall be upon his shoulder:

and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor,

The mighty God, The everlasting Father,

The Prince of Peace. " -- The Prophet Isaiah

http://home.earthlink.net/~bspyle

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/10/01 5:03:02 PM Central Standard Time,

bspyle@... writes:

<< Children just

naturally imitate adults. If you use the toilet, odds are overwhelming your

kids will too.

granny

--- >>

You are probably right but I didn't take a chance on it with either of my

kids. We did have a house rabbit though who had a litter box in our bathroom

and he would usually join us when we went in there. He knew what it was all

about. It was so cute he would sit there so intently we felt like we should

give him something to read. Jessie

[Guest guest]

> You are probably right but I didn't take a chance on it with either of my

> kids. We did have a house rabbit though who had a litter box in our

bathroom

> and he would usually join us when we went in there. He knew what it was

all

> about. It was so cute he would sit there so intently we felt like we

should

> give him something to read. Jessie

LOL!!! That I would like to see!

granny

---

" For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:

and the government shall be upon his shoulder:

and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor,

The mighty God, The everlasting Father,

The Prince of Peace. " -- The Prophet Isaiah

http://home.earthlink.net/~bspyle

[Guest guest]

Hi Granny,

First I've got to tell you that I love your posts! Thanks for

advice....sometimes she'll go and sometimes(if having fun)she will sit in

it.......I will question her Ped. next appt. He specializes in DS and tells

me to be patience that this is not abnormal.....but, I will confront him

again

Maura

----Original Message Follows----

From: " B. S. Pyle " <bspyle@...>

" Maura Devine " <maura_devine@...>

Subject: Re: Incontinence

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 16:14:31 -0600

My eldest daughter (NDA) still did not have day or night-time control at age

five. Her pediatrician referred her to a urologist, who just took one look

at her and told me to potty-train her. Didn't even do an urine analysis. So,

I took her to another urologist. He ran all the tests one would expect and

discovered my daughter had a deformed kidney, a deformed bladder and a

chronic kidney infection. Trying to potty train her would have been cruel.

After a lot of medication and a couple of surgeries, all was well and has

remained so since. So, perhaps you child should see a urologist, Maura.

granny

---

" For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:

and the government shall be upon his shoulder:

and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor,

The mighty God, The everlasting Father,

The Prince of Peace. " -- The Prophet Isaiah

http://home.earthlink.net/~bspyle

Re: Incontinence

> Hi Patti,

>

> My daughter, Adelena is 8.5yrs old and still is not completely trained.

Her

> therapists, me, her sister, grandpa and school all are working on

> this......but, if she is having fun....she will sit in whatever! The dr.

> and therapists are not too worried, they say that she just may not be

> completely physically/mentally ready for this(boy I sure am)lol

Log on to- http://www.igive.com/lindseyrae. Each time you purchase from this

site, a percentage is donated to the Lindsey Rae Foundation(a non-profit

organization for Down Syndrome children). Plus, your purchase maybe tax

deductible.

Go to http://www.bgcdownsyndrome.org to order your 2001 Downright Incredible

Kids calendar! Miss September is my daughter Adelena!!

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Amen to that!!

----Original Message Follows----

From: " B. S. Pyle " <bspyle@...>

" Maura Devine " <maura_devine@...>

Subject: Re: Incontinence

Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:16:28 -0600

Glad I was of some help, Maura. Just remember, the doctor is your employee.

He is an advisor and you are the boss making the decisions. :^)

granny

---

" For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:

and the government shall be upon his shoulder:

and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor,

The mighty God, The everlasting Father,

The Prince of Peace. " -- The Prophet Isaiah

http://home.earthlink.net/~bspyle

Re: Incontinence

>

>

> > Hi Patti,

> >

> > My daughter, Adelena is 8.5yrs old and still is not completely

trained.

> Her

> > therapists, me, her sister, grandpa and school all are working on

> > this......but, if she is having fun....she will sit in whatever! The

dr.

> > and therapists are not too worried, they say that she just may not be

> > completely physically/mentally ready for this(boy I sure am)lol

>

>

>

>

>

> Log on to- http://www.igive.com/lindseyrae. Each time you purchase from

this

> site, a percentage is donated to the Lindsey Rae Foundation(a non-profit

> organization for Down Syndrome children). Plus, your purchase maybe tax

> deductible.

>

> Go to http://www.bgcdownsyndrome.org to order your 2001 Downright

Incredible

> Kids calendar! Miss September is my daughter Adelena!!

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr. Bolin:

Your unique experience with patients presenting with S2 subluxation urinary

incontinence must be limited. In my practice there are people who do not

respond to anything, including S2 adjustment. In fact sopme of my clients

even have intractable vaginal prolapse as well as urinary incontinence that

do not respond to adjustment. Some of these patients have not responded to

surgical interventions, medications, prayer, and a good talking to. I am

glad to know that there is one office in Oregon where this is not a problem.

Willard

Incontinence

, I don't seem to have any problems treating patients suffering from

incontinence or bedwetting, if I find a tender swelling over the second

sacral segment. The patient is adjusted prone at the second sacral level

until the swelling goes down (one to six visits usually). The condition is

exacerbated by a prat fall or prolonged sitting. Darald Bolin

[Guest guest]

Re: Cause of Incontinence

My urinary incontinence was cured when I added quality natural

Cell Medicines to my diet. Also cured were my arthritis,

allergies, and other debilitating diseases.

I feel that nearly all degenerative diseases, including cancer,

are caused by vitamin-Cell Medicine deficiencies. The right Cell

Medicines can easily detoxify whatever toxins you have in your

body, and help keep you healthy.

Here's a case history. Cancer was increasing in Russia when

pollution was increasing. But in two areas where the pollution

was horrific (trees and fishes were dying), the people were

healthy and cancer-free! Of special interest is that the people

in these two regions DRANK and SMOKED MORE than the average

population. Yet they were vibrant, healthy, in good spirits, and

cancer-free.

It turned out that these people drank lots of Kombucha tea. The

Kombucha provided them with Cell Medicines and helped cleanse

(de-tox) the pollution from their bodies. The Kombucha tea also

seemed to make the men immune to drunkedness, because very few

drunk-driving tickets were issued in these regions.

So it seems that the government is wrong when they blame lung

cancer SOLELY on smoking. The REAL REASON points to the LACK of

Natural Cell Medicines in people's diets. Our bodies can easily

remove the poisons which cause cancers if we give it the right

food-Cell Medicines.

Joy

--------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>To eliminate urinary incontinence it would be helpful to know its cause. I

would be most reluctant to buy such a product.

> beta SitoSterol - to: either V Gammill or Carolin

Boormann

>

>

> I could not sleep last night and was watching really early am tv. There

was a paid commercial on about prostate cancer and a " revolutionary " new natural

supplement called beta prostate. This was put together by a man called

Mason, the name is familiar but have read so much by now all names seem

familiar, a chemist I believe. What he said made a lot of sense, but so do a

lot of scams that do nothing for you. What I need to know is what is beta

SitoSterol, and etc. - He said it is made from sugar cane and it is what is

left after you extract the sugar from the cane. He also said that his pills

have 300 times the Beta

> SitoSterol that any other pill made can give you and that you need to

only take one pill a day. It is a natural supplement and also has the necessary

zinc to go with it. Can either one or both of you educate me please, so I know

whether this is a good product and I can know whether to order it or not?

Rusty

>

> PS: the price is 65.95 for 2 60pill bottles and you get one

> free or 131.80 for 4 60 pill bottles and you get 2 free, it think it is

60 pills but now not sure, because they call it 2 months +1 or 4 months +2

>

[Guest guest]

which cell medicines should charles be taking?

beta SitoSterol - to: either V Gammill or

Carolin Boormann

> >

> >

> > I could not sleep last night and was watching really early am tv.

There was a paid commercial on about prostate cancer and a " revolutionary "

new natural supplement called beta prostate. This was put together by a man

called Mason, the name is familiar but have read so much by now all

names seem familiar, a chemist I believe. What he said made a lot of sense,

but so do a lot of scams that do nothing for you. What I need to know is

what is beta SitoSterol, and etc. - He said it is made from sugar cane and

it is what is left after you extract the sugar from the cane. He also said

that his pills have 300 times the Beta

> > SitoSterol that any other pill made can give you and that you need

to only take one pill a day. It is a natural supplement and also has the

necessary zinc to go with it. Can either one or both of you educate me

please, so I know whether this is a good product and I can know whether to

order it or not? Rusty

> >

> > PS: the price is 65.95 for 2 60pill bottles and you get one

> > free or 131.80 for 4 60 pill bottles and you get 2 free, it think

it is 60 pills but now not sure, because they call it 2 months +1 or 4

months +2

> >

>

>

>

> Get HUGE info at http://www.cures for cancer.ws, and post your own links there.

Unsubscribe by sending email to cures for cancer-unsubscribeegroups or by

visiting http://www.bobhurt.com/subunsub.mv

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm just gonna throw out an idea.

Rule out any changes in clothing. New underwear, different cut of pants,

Arnold

[Guest guest]

Hi : I haven't had this particular procedure -- it is

relatively new. The procedures I have had were the more " tried &

true " that've been around for years and years.

The SPARC procedure is minimally-invasive and about as stress-free as

a surgical procedure can get. It can be done using light sedation,

epidural (or spinal), or -- if you of your surgeon prefer -- general

anesthesia. Doesn't even require incisions -- the sling is placed

using needles. Wouldn't even require an overnight hospital stay

(barring complications, of course).

MY concern would be the foreign material that comprises the sling,

that being polypropelene. I have a pelvis full of cadaveric fascia,

mesh, suture material, and screws and am terribly concerned since

I've begun reading up on PA. A patient with a chronic, inflammatory

disorder that affects the connective tissue may not be the best

candidate for placement of such materials. There is ALWAYS a risk --

even for a " normal, " healthy patient -- of

rejection/erosion/infection. I do not yet know what the

ramifications of any of this might be, but it's certainly something

that I intend to cover thoroughly with the rheumatologist, once I get

in there. I'm really, really concerned about this -- my own tissue

is so weak (it was discovered intraoperatively that I don't even

form " normal " scar tissue) that if the mesh were removed, my pelvic

organs would be seeing daylight again. I cannot even bear the

thought!

Just food for thought; at the very least, probably something for you

to discuss with your doctor.

Warmly,

Cat

>

> Since it was brought up that incontinence can be part- and-parcel

of having any connective tissue disease....has anyone on this list

had a " sparc sling " surgery?

>

> My doctor recommended it, and I have been afraid to have any

surgery because the stress might affect my P, muchless take a major

toll because it is abdominable.

>

> Any info, once again, much appreciated. , who is still in the

little town of Poulsbo, Wa.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ellen,

Welcome again. Glad you were able to sort your account out.

I haven't any tips on dealing with incontinence. The closest I came

was just prior to surgery having some troubles voiding my

bladder....just couldn't start a stream to save my life. It seemed to

coincide with long periods standing, and after I lay down, or slept

the night things would be okay. It never happened again after surgery.

I did read that these types of problems (bowel and bladder) can be due

to nerve compression at LS/S1....are you fused that far down? Is there

any discussion of trying to determine if there is a " structural "

reason for this annoying problem?

We did have a memeber who was to undergo a revision within the past

year also hoping to solve some bladder problems, but I don't recall

hersaying how this all came out. I believe she was a patient of

DrBridwells. Maybe she will chime in.

In any event....I hope you are able to find some help. What part of

the country do you live in?

Take Care, Cam

[Guest guest]

Cam,

Thank you for your reply. Yes I am fused to sacrum,

and I had a myelogram (sub-cisternal) last week. I am

waiting for results. Don't really know what to hope

for. And like your preop urinary problems, I also

have retention, had to cath myself a few times, but

then went on Cardura, which they use with men with

prostrate problems. So now I don't have retention too

much, but I can't control the stream very well. No

control with bowel (yuch)

Ten years ago, I had some similar symptoms,which were

milder, but with more intense leg and back pain, and

they found there was constriction of the cord due to

scar tissue at a prior pseudarthrosis. Had surgery

and all was well for a bit....I am glad I had the

surgery--I have had a very busy, active ten years.

Ellen

--- cammaltby <cammaltby@...> wrote:

> Hi Ellen,

>

> Welcome again. Glad you were able to sort your

> account out.

>

> I haven't any tips on dealing with incontinence. The

> closest I came

> was just prior to surgery having some troubles

> voiding my

> bladder....just couldn't start a stream to save my

> life. It seemed to

> coincide with long periods standing, and after I lay

> down, or slept

> the night things would be okay. It never happened

> again after surgery.

>

> I did read that these types of problems (bowel and

> bladder) can be due

> to nerve compression at LS/S1....are you fused that

> far down? Is there

> any discussion of trying to determine if there is a

> " structural "

> reason for this annoying problem?

>

> We did have a memeber who was to undergo a revision

> within the past

> year also hoping to solve some bladder problems, but

> I don't recall

> hersaying how this all came out. I believe she was a

> patient of

> DrBridwells. Maybe she will chime in.

>

> In any event....I hope you are able to find some

> help. What part of

> the country do you live in?

>

> Take Care, Cam

>

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Ellen,

Please let us know what you hear from the myelogram. Are you

consulting and orthopedist (prior HR, aging spine specialist),

neurologist or both? I would think a team approach might be good,

don't you? Also, no matter what, you might want to secure a second

opinion once all your films/testing is complete. If your current state

is " it " ...then so be it...but if there is a chance there might be

alternatives for you it might be worth considering. Since most of your

workup is almost complete it should be possible to have the opinion

fairly inexpensively.

I am hoping for the best for you! Cam

[Guest guest]

what is a sub-cisternal myelogram?

as a person who is supposed to cervical puncture for a myelogram, I am

curious if there is a less risky alternative??

>

> Cam,

> Thank you for your reply. Yes I am fused to sacrum,

> and I had a myelogram (sub-cisternal) last week. I am

> waiting for results.

[Guest guest]

SB, Hi, sorry, it's the same thing and it really was

an okay procedure! I was really really nervous about

it before hand cause I could find so little on it.

But it was easy. Ellen

--- SB <bahadreama@...> wrote:

> what is a sub-cisternal myelogram?

>

> as a person who is supposed to cervical puncture for

> a myelogram, I am

> curious if there is a less risky alternative??

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > Cam,

> > Thank you for your reply. Yes I am fused to

> sacrum,

> > and I had a myelogram (sub-cisternal) last week.

> I am

> > waiting for results.

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Ruth,

This happened to my sister (non CMT) after a back injury. Her

doctor gave her a shot of something she called " glue " to repair the urine

leaking problem. I hope your problem is as easy to repair.