Re: Desperate and Scared....PLEASE HELP

[Guest guest]

Hi -

I'm sorry things are spiraling so out of control right now. I started

reading your post and was like WOW this sounds like me a few years ago.

I don't have a ton of time right now, but I posted a while back about my

older daughter (she's 23 now), but " back then " the turmoil and chaos we lived

in. My daughter was not OCD, but rather bi-polar. She, too, attended the out

of district schools, and was repeatedly thrown out of each one. She was a

TOUGH one. Didn't hesitate to throw down when the mood struck. She was so

angry at everyone and everything. Financially we were ruined towards the end -

she had maxed out her LIFETIME mental health benefits on my insurance. At

the time, I had two small children from my second marriage and I could see the

effects her behavior was having on them. She started running away, hanging

out with the " wrong crowd. " There were never any drug or alcohol issues thank

goodness. She was not promiscuous (although, like you I did put her on

birth control just in case). The downward spiral started around age 12 and

continued on. There were intermittent problems with the police here and there.

Occasionally I had to call them when she was trashing the house and so out of

control. She used to cut herself (not as in suicidal, just cut) when things

go so bad. I was trying to work full-time and raise my two younger children

during this. I didn't know which way was up.

Finally at age 15 I'd had enough - emotionally and financially. It was

during a period of time she was being held in the juvenile detention center

(mainly for her own safety at that point). I finally summed up the courage to

do

what I knew had to be done - I went into family court on an emergency basis

and asked the judge to order residential treatment for her. I had faxed a

letter earlier in the morning to his chambers and was a wreck by the time I got

there. I still remember vividly standing there begging this man to order my

child into a residential treatment facility because I felt I had done all I

could do myself. The judge was very sympathetic and after reviewing all the

records I had actually commended me on making a decision that would most

likely safe my daughter's life (due to the life she was attempting to live and

risk taking). He assured me he understood it was the hardest decision I would

ever have to make in my life.

Unfortunately, inpatient facilities are hard to find space in (as you're

hearing). We were finally able to get her into a facility. Yes, she screamed,

cried, and hated me. I just kept telling her I loved her and some day she

would understand why I was doing what I was doing. Mind you, residential

facility only means living there - you will have visits weekly and depending on

her progress she will have passes to spend weekends home.

While she was there, I was able to focus on my other children and bring some

sence of " normalcy " back to our lives for a while. Yes, there were

sleepless nights feeling guilty, but I knew that if I ever wanted her to have

any

chance at successful adulthood, I had to do this.

She spent 18 months in the residential program. She came home sooner than

she was probably ready for, but there were some issues in the program that I

did bring her home earlier.

She floundered for a while after that. Wasn't all that productive, but I

finally hit the point where I realized I had the RIGHT to live my life too.

Fast forward - my daughter is now 23. She is a beautiful, successful young

woman. She met a nice guy finally. She has a one-year-old son (naturally I

would have preferred she waited, but it happened). She owns her own business

and her own home at age 23. She never did graduate high school. She just

couldn't fit herself into that mold. She tries everyday of her life to make

up for those " bad days. "

I guess you can say she literally grew up the hard way.

I have to run right now, but just had to let you know - I went through a

similar experience and we came out okay in the end. It did take a while and

it's emotionally draining, but we made it.

Now I'm dealing with my son who has OCD, Tourette's, but that's a story for

another day! LOL.

E-mail me personally if you have any questions or I can offer any other

insite into the residential treatment experience - I'd be glad to help.

In a message dated 1/5/2006 6:15:26 PM Central Standard Time,

Kidztalent@... writes:

This is killing me!!! I have not ever heard ANYTHING positive

coming out of putting a teen in residential.....NOTHING!! If anyone here

has

any experience....please help me!!! I cannot even imagine how it will feel

with not living at home anymore. PLEASE HELP!!

[Guest guest]

Hi , it's good to hear from you but I'm sorry for the

circumstances!!

Well, first I'm glad was doing so well. She did need a good

self-esteem boost, so am glad she got that. How's she feeling now

about all the trouble and possible residential, per the school, have

you told her??

I also think that since the school knows her background that there

should be a better way to handle this in her present placement. I

mean, as you said, the students there have " problems " so what did

they expect? It just seems like since she was doing so well and is

going through a bad spell (plus that one incident the other girl did

lie), they would or could come up with a plan to try BEFORE even

talking residential!

As to residential - I do have some good news. I know of kids/teens

who have done VERY well in these placements. Sometimes people

actually do better away from home. Not that home was bad in any way

at all. But with peers and qualified staff (and make sure they are

QUALIFIED), it's not perfect I'm sure, but I know of many who have

done very well in homes! So take some heart there! But they had

best have something to offer that will have therapy and 24/7 with

staff trained in HER specific diagnoses when/if they start throwing

suggestions at you re placements.

BUT I know I would really push them about how well she had been doing

and how you want all of you as a " team " to try to work things out

with 's cooperation (she does want to stay doesn't she?) and

get things back on track as she had been doing so very well! I think

they are giving up too soon too. She's smart, she has to know she's

gotten herself into some of this (teen mouth, bragging, etc., that

even typical kids do!) so has to expect consequences but, like a lot

of teens, won't take them gracefully! As you said, they should

expect some emotional issues with her diagnoses and background.

I do think her attitude right now will play a big part in any

decision.

Has she been cutting anymore?? How's her OCD? Is she on any

medication now?? What does her boyfriend think of all this?

Quickly typed, hope this makes some sense! (((hugs))) as you two

have been through a lot, up and down!

>

> Hi everyone...I hope your New Year is starting out better than

mine is.

> I know I haven't contributed anything in a while. Everything is

just so up

> and down with all the time. It seems like whenever I've

posted that

> thing's are going good...within a couple days....everything turns

upside again

> with her.

> Other than the hospitalization after the first day of school, when

she tried

> to kill herself by overdosing on a bunch of pills.......because she

was so

>

[Guest guest]

,

Perhaps the structure and support of a residential

facility would be a positive thing? I have a

15-year-old daughter so I can imagine how difficult it

would be to make this decision. If I were in your

situation I'd seriously consider what would be the

best situation possible for my child. What will

benefit her mental well-being? I don't think a child's

grades are more important than their mental health.

Your daughter can always go back to school at a later

date, get straight As in Jr. College, and from there

transfer somewhere spectacular.

I would research these facilities inside and out,

learn pros and cons, what is the best possible place,

the best doctors, the best therapy, I would want the

most effective situation possible. Then I'd start

weighing it against what I could provide at home.

Tess

--- Kidztalent@... wrote:

> Hi everyone...I hope your New Year is starting out

> better than mine is.

> I know I haven't contributed anything in a while.

> Everything is just so up

> and down with all the time. It seems like

> whenever I've posted that

> thing's are going good...within a couple

> days....everything turns upside again

> with her.

> Other than the hospitalization after the first day

> of school, when she tried

> to kill herself by overdosing on a bunch of

> pills.......because she was so

> upset by having to start 9th grade at a different

> high school than all her

> friends were going to.....(because she was put in an

> ED class (emotionally

> disturbed) at a high school that had the program.)

> After she got out of the

> hospital, she actually began to like the

> school...she was making lots of

> friends....though they weren't the kind of friends I

> would have chosen....they all are

> dealing with their own issues. She got into the

> " punk-look " over the summer

> and of course attracted those type of " friends " in

> her new high school. They

> are all either in her ED class or have been at one

> time. Seems most of them

> have been suicidal at some time or have drug or

> alcohol problems they're

> dealing with. And most of them are senior's or 17-18

> years old. (She's a

> freshman..and just turned 15.) Well..because of all

> her new friend's....and the fact

> that the school gave her as her elective, a

> student-service " job " for one

> period a day. She assists the teacher in helping

> these kids with their work.....it

> all helped in giving her some self-esteem or

> self-worth. She LOVES helping

> these kids and just adores every one of them. So

> everything was going great

> in her life. Her grades went from D's and F's last

> year to straight A's now.

> They even have her helping seniors with algebra!

> (She got an A+ in advanced

> Algebra!!) But in early Dec., thing's once again

> started changing. Though she

> was still doing awesome with school work....her

> " mouth " and actions started

> getting her in trouble at school. She would brag

> about alcohol...though the

> teacher said that it all is obvious lies to try and

> make herself sound cool to

> the other kids.... and talk explicitly and loudly

> about sex...especially after

> she started having sex with her first " real

> boyfriend " . (Because of how

> well she was doing in school with grades and how

> good her behavior had become

> at home...we thought she had turned the corner on

> maturing...so I allowed the

> boyfriend even though he was 17. He was very

> respectful of my " rules " He had

> some previous issues around 15 years old...but was

> doing quite good now and

> really seemed very mature. He's in a band and has a

> definite goal with his

> life and assured me that he doesn't want to screw

> thing's up with his life. I

> knew they'd have sex because was so open with

> me about how SHE wanted

> to....though she assured me she'd use a condom. Plus

> after it became a

> " regular " thing I took her to the doctor for the

> birth-control shot. I felt I did my

> part and protected her against pregnancy....though I

> made sure she knew that

> I don't condone it....just protecting her from

> screwing up her life. The STD

> protection would be on her. She still assured me

> she would make him use a

> condom too.)

> Anyway...like I was saying....her " mouth " was

> starting to get her in some

> trouble. She had a one day in-school suspension for

> talking about sex after she

> had been given a warning.....then I get a call from

> the school that the

> police have her in handcuff's and are transporting

> her to the hospital because

> someone told the teacher that was planning

> on killing herself. After a

> couple days in the hospital, it turned out the

> person that reported this was

> making it all up.... (she's in the ED class too

> and finally admitted she made

> it up)....nice huh?? But it went on 's

> record at school as her being

> suicidal anyway. Then just before Christmas vacation

> I get another call from

> school that some kid in her ED class brought alcohol

> to school and

> drank some and was being suspended and the kid who

> brought it was expelled. Now

> Monday when school resumes after Xmas

> break....there will be an emergency IEP

> meeting because of the suspension and according to a

> phone call I got

> yesterday....they will be recommending she be put in

> a residential-treatment

> center. They said that I have the final decision but

> that if I go against their

> recommendation, that I stand the chance of

> being dropped from the AB3632

> state program that has been funding everything

> regarding school. He said that

> what they will do is give me a list of what (if

> anything he said) is

> available in the state of CA...and I will be

> allowed to tour the facility and choose.

> He also said that placement in CA. is rarely

> available though, but we would

> exhaust all resources within the state before going

> to another state like

> Utah he said. I am so confused!! She's getting

> straight A's in school now and I

> hate to disrupt that yet because of her social

> behavior's...sometimes she

> does seem to need 24/7 help. She's just so up and

> down. I'm so damned if I put

> her in residential and I'm damned if I don't!!!!

> The school believes she's

> spiraling downward. I don't know what to believe!!

> Yes, she's had some instances

> at school but isn't that why they put her in the ED

> class??? What did they

> expect? They never expected the straight A's,

> that's for sure....but c'mon,

> didn't they expect some emotional issues since she

> was placed in that class???

> I just think they're giving up too soon. I just

> don't know what to do. I know

> though....and if I allow them to put her in

> residential...she will

> totally hate me forever. It will seem to her that

> I've don't love her and have

> given her up. This is killing me!!! I have not ever

> heard ANYTHING positive

> coming out of putting a teen in

> residential.....NOTHING!! If anyone here has

> any experience....please help me!!! I cannot even

> imagine how it will feel

> with not living at home anymore. PLEASE

> HELP!!

> /Los Angeles

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Thanks Chris. You're always really helpful. Thanks , Tess and Lesley

too. , your life with your daughter does sound identical.....thank you. I

hope will come back around like your daughter did.

As far as her OCD....I'm not sure anymore how it is for her. In the

beginning, she was open about it....but now she just gets really mad when I

bring it

up. One day she'll tell me the medication (200 mg Zoloft) doesn't work at all

with her OCD....and another day she'll tell me it's fine. I suspect it's out

of control from what I see and hear. When she's in the bathroom, I hear a

lot of banging and bumping sounds. And I really think it's affecting her in some

way with getting washed and brushing her hair. She would NEVER brush her

anymore if I didn't get on her. She gets SO pissy when I tell her she needs to

brush her hair. She'll go days without brushing it. It looks like a total

ratted up mess. She'll even shower and never brush it out. She can't even get a

brush through anymore. I occasionally will just make her sit down and work on

it brushing it out for her. It usually will take a good hour to get all the

snarls out it. She has babyfine long hair just like mine, and it gets ratted

up very easily if you don't stay on top of it. It just appalls me when she'll

get out of the car in the morning at school and I see the back of her hair

looking all ratted up like a homeless bum. I'm so embarrassed. So I'm not sure

if brushing it has something to do with OCD or not. It's just not normal that

a 15 yo doesn't care about her hair. It's also dyed black too since last

summer (for her punk look). She totally ruined her beautiful blonde hair. And

the thing that's really bad is when you die blonde hair black....the blonde

roots start coming through and it makes her hair appear as though she's losing

her hair. It's just horrible. I need to send you a picture of the " before " and

after . It just breaks my heart. She's so beautiful and does this to

herself. Even all her punk friends tell her that she was really " hot " when her

hair was blonde.

As far as her cutting......I thought it was still under control. It's been

about 9 months since she stopped. But snooping through her emails, I found her

telling a friend that it's gotten really bad again. I don't know where she's

cutting though now. I had her show me her arms (she's always wearing arm

bands " and it didn't appear that she's cutting there. So I don't know where on

her body she is cutting....IF she's really cutting again that is. It seems like

she lies to her friends a lot....for sympathy maybe....or to sound cool....I

don't know which.

As far as the boyfriend....I forgot to mention in the last post......he

broke up with her over New Year's. I had a feeling it wouldn't last since she

had

sex with him so soon and because of her lying to me and crap she was trying

to get him to go along with. I knew with him being mature that eventually he

wouldn't put up with her crap and he didn't. He'd always have her home by my

curfew but when she was mad at me...she'd try to get him to allow her to stay

with him and not go home. He wouldn't along with that. He wouldn't pick her

up when she'd call him crying she hates her Mom and wants to leave...and

expect him to come get her. I even thanked him for not going along with

allowing

her to stay out past curfew or getting her when she's mad at me. He told me

he'd never do that and when she's with him, he's responsible for getting her

home on time. He also got mad at her for lying to him saying that she could go

to Hollywood with him when his band was playing in a club there and telling

him I said she could stay out until whenever that night. And also that night

she was trying to get him to get his older friends to buy her alcohol....and

told her No, she's not drinking alcohol. So after that, he'd had enough and

ended it. Now the worst thing is....last night...not even a week after the

breakup....she tells me " like 6 of his friends want to date her " . I know

why....cause she bragged so openly about all her sexual escapades with her

boyfriend!! I know why they want to date her!! And I know she does too and she

says

she doesn't care. So now....it appears she's on yet another addiction....sex.

Everything turns into an addiction or obsession with her. She thinks she's

going on a date tonight with her ex's friend....but I can't let that happen

knowing all she wants to do is have sex. It will be a rough time here tonight.

I

won't be surprised if I have to call the police. I'm depressed and exhausted

just thinking about it.

I barely slept last night. Maybe it is time I accept the fact that she does

need residential. I just can't accept that she really is sick. I just keep

thinking about all the younger days prior to 12 years old....when she was so

caring, sweet, beautiful, funny, intelligent, and always smiling. This is my

only child and I already feel as though I'm childless. I don't know how I'm

going to go on with life after she's put in residential. I know ....and

she will turn on me forever like she did with her father in FL.

Her therapist and I had a talk last night and I was telling her how

frustrated I am.....that all these years and really still have never had a

definite

diagnosis for her from anyone....even with all the hospitalizations this past

year at UCLA which is supposed to be the best psychiatric hospital. I told

her therapist after all my research I really think she's either bi-polar or has

borderline personality disorder. When I said that....her therapist

said..... " since you've said that, because I (the therapist) cannot make a

diagnosis,

but from all her education... " (she has her PhD in adolescent psychiatry but

practices as a psychologist and not a psychiatrist,) she said....her diagnosis

would be borderline personality disorder. She said in all her years

counseling , she's thought this for quite a while but cannot officially

make a

diagnosis and with this disorder, they will not " label " anyone with it until

they are over 18. She said has all the symptoms and from what I've

read about it.....I've this for a while. She is classic. But her therapist

said,

there is no medication for this disorder anyway...only very long intensive

therapy....and has got to want the help in order for it to work. I've

read good and bad about the therapy working....and being able to lead a normal

life. In reading about it...it also said it could be from genetics or a

trauma/childhood abuse that brings it on. Guess when it all started?? At the

time her Dad and I divorced. I've been saying for years, that the forced

visitations with her Dad and his family in FL...she came back a totally

different

child...and she's told me the horrifying things he and his family tormented and

abused her with on the visitations. Plus, him and his family have definite

mental problems. I'm just so sick to my stomach.

I need to go for now....I just feel so sick.

Thanks again.

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathy and thank you.

I guess by " damned if I do and damned if I don't " put her in residential...I

meant, I'm damned because will see it as me abandoning her and giving

up and who knows if she'll ever have a relationship with me ever again. I

know how she holds onto a grudge forever....and the fact that her awesome

school grades have given her some self-esteem again will probably drop to F's

again in residential because she just won't care anymore. " Damned if I don't "

put

her in residential....what if she carries out a suicidal threat....or her

impulse control will bring her harm or worse.

I just keep envisioning my first daughter's funeral. I never thought I'd

live through it...I never thought I'd ever be forced to make funeral

arrangements. She died at birth....and I thought I would die. I can't imagine an

older

child.....and the only child I will ever have.

I'm sorry this sounds so morbid. I'm just so scared of losing my daughter to

residential or worse.

[Guest guest]

Even more effective than looking through her email is installing

something like Spector Pro on your computers - it allows you to see

every keystroke she made, read all instant messages, and it will take

screen shots every few seconds that you can watch -

I put it on my machines about a year ago - though I continue to feel

it is extremely intrusive on my son's private life, I was concerned

about the time he spends on artist websites where adults could take

advantage of him.

A few weeks ago the new york times ran an article about a boy who was

seduced at 13 on the internet and at 18 he started telling the police

about the years of activity he'd concealed from his mom.

That made me a little more comfortable with my use of this software.

I'm careful to be respectful of what I learn in this way - and I

don't plan on ever telling him I did it - I look for signs of

trouble . . . other details I try to put aside in my mind.

I must say that after a couple hours of 'being inside the mind of a

14 year old and his friends' I feel pretty weird!

All I ever found out is that he is a nice guy with good friends and

not into any trouble - and a few other things that are private to him.

You would have the chance to know much more than you do now and so be

in a better position to make a decision at this crucial time.

(bad mom/good mom)

>

> Thanks Chris. You're always really helpful. Thanks , Tess and

Lesley

> too. , your life with your daughter does sound

identical.....thank you. I

> hope will come back around like your daughter did.

> As far as her OCD....I'm not sure anymore how it is for her. In

the

> beginning, she was open about it....but now she just gets really

mad when I bring it

> up. One day she'll tell me the medication (200 mg Zoloft) doesn't

work at all

> with her OCD....and another day she'll tell me it's fine. I suspect

it's out

> of control from what I see and hear. When she's in the bathroom, I

hear a

> lot of banging and bumping sounds. And I really think it's

affecting her in some

> way with getting washed and brushing her hair. She would NEVER

brush her

> anymore if I didn't get on her. She gets SO pissy when I tell her

she needs to

> brush her hair. She'll go days without brushing it. It looks like

a total

> ratted up mess. She'll even shower and never brush it out. She

can't even get a

> brush through anymore. I occasionally will just make her sit down

and work on

> it brushing it out for her. It usually will take a good hour to

get all the

> snarls out it. She has babyfine long hair just like mine, and it

gets ratted

> up very easily if you don't stay on top of it. It just appalls me

when she'll

> get out of the car in the morning at school and I see the back of

her hair

> looking all ratted up like a homeless bum. I'm so embarrassed. So

I'm not sure

> if brushing it has something to do with OCD or not. It's just not

normal that

> a 15 yo doesn't care about her hair. It's also dyed black too

since last

> summer (for her punk look). She totally ruined her beautiful

blonde hair. And

> the thing that's really bad is when you die blonde hair

black....the blonde

> roots start coming through and it makes her hair appear as though

she's losing

> her hair. It's just horrible. I need to send you a picture of

the " before " and

> after . It just breaks my heart. She's so beautiful and does

this to

> herself. Even all her punk friends tell her that she was

really " hot " when her

> hair was blonde.

> As far as her cutting......I thought it was still under control.

It's been

> about 9 months since she stopped. But snooping through her emails,

I found her

> telling a friend that it's gotten really bad again. I don't know

where she's

> cutting though now. I had her show me her arms (she's always

wearing arm

> bands " and it didn't appear that she's cutting there. So I don't

know where on

> her body she is cutting....IF she's really cutting again that is.

It seems like

> she lies to her friends a lot....for sympathy maybe....or to sound

cool....I

> don't know which.

> As far as the boyfriend....I forgot to mention in the last

post......he

> broke up with her over New Year's. I had a feeling it wouldn't last

since she had

> sex with him so soon and because of her lying to me and crap she

was trying

> to get him to go along with. I knew with him being mature that

eventually he

> wouldn't put up with her crap and he didn't. He'd always have her

home by my

> curfew but when she was mad at me...she'd try to get him to allow

her to stay

> with him and not go home. He wouldn't along with that. He wouldn't

pick her

> up when she'd call him crying she hates her Mom and wants to

leave...and

> expect him to come get her. I even thanked him for not going along

with allowing

> her to stay out past curfew or getting her when she's mad at me.

He told me

> he'd never do that and when she's with him, he's responsible for

getting her

> home on time. He also got mad at her for lying to him saying that

she could go

> to Hollywood with him when his band was playing in a club there

and telling

> him I said she could stay out until whenever that night. And also

that night

> she was trying to get him to get his older friends to buy her

alcohol....and

> told her No, she's not drinking alcohol. So after that, he'd had

enough and

> ended it. Now the worst thing is....last night...not even a week

after the

> breakup....she tells me " like 6 of his friends want to date her " .

I know

> why....cause she bragged so openly about all her sexual escapades

with her

> boyfriend!! I know why they want to date her!! And I know she does

too and she says

> she doesn't care. So now....it appears she's on yet another

addiction....sex.

> Everything turns into an addiction or obsession with her. She

thinks she's

> going on a date tonight with her ex's friend....but I can't let

that happen

> knowing all she wants to do is have sex. It will be a rough time

here tonight. I

> won't be surprised if I have to call the police. I'm depressed and

exhausted

> just thinking about it.

> I barely slept last night. Maybe it is time I accept the fact that

she does

> need residential. I just can't accept that she really is sick. I

just keep

> thinking about all the younger days prior to 12 years old....when

she was so

> caring, sweet, beautiful, funny, intelligent, and always smiling.

This is my

> only child and I already feel as though I'm childless. I don't know

how I'm

> going to go on with life after she's put in residential. I know

....and

> she will turn on me forever like she did with her father in FL.

> Her therapist and I had a talk last night and I was telling her

how

> frustrated I am.....that all these years and really still have

never had a definite

> diagnosis for her from anyone....even with all the

hospitalizations this past

> year at UCLA which is supposed to be the best psychiatric hospital.

I told

> her therapist after all my research I really think she's either bi-

polar or has

> borderline personality disorder. When I said that....her therapist

> said..... " since you've said that, because I (the therapist) cannot

make a diagnosis,

> but from all her education... " (she has her PhD in adolescent

psychiatry but

> practices as a psychologist and not a psychiatrist,) she

said....her diagnosis

> would be borderline personality disorder. She said in all her

years

> counseling , she's thought this for quite a while but cannot

officially make a

> diagnosis and with this disorder, they will not " label " anyone

with it until

> they are over 18. She said has all the symptoms and from

what I've

> read about it.....I've this for a while. She is classic. But her

therapist said,

> there is no medication for this disorder anyway...only very long

intensive

> therapy....and has got to want the help in order for it to

work. I've

> read good and bad about the therapy working....and being able to

lead a normal

> life. In reading about it...it also said it could be from

genetics or a

> trauma/childhood abuse that brings it on. Guess when it all

started?? At the

> time her Dad and I divorced. I've been saying for years, that the

forced

> visitations with her Dad and his family in FL...she came back a

totally different

> child...and she's told me the horrifying things he and his family

tormented and

> abused her with on the visitations. Plus, him and his family have

definite

> mental problems. I'm just so sick to my stomach.

> I need to go for now....I just feel so sick.

> Thanks again.

>

>

>

>

>