Re: What happend to Kirby?

[Guest guest]

He's probably working on his new book about food issues.

Jane

>

> What's up with THAT?

>

> , FA ~

>

[Guest guest]

He's speaking in CT this month along with Fournier and others.

Dan Olmsted and I had breakfast with him at NAA. He's alive and well

and writing and all those good things. And (, turn your eyes

away) still tall and handsome.

KS

[Guest guest]

Well that's weird. I thought he was no longer fighting for us. I am

referring to his last piece which stated Thimerosal was no longer in

childhood vaccines. He didn't reply to a number of emails, or posts.

I mean, I appreciate the work he did in the past and everything...

, FA ~

>

> He's speaking in CT this month along with Fournier and others.

> Dan Olmsted and I had breakfast with him at NAA. He's alive and well

> and writing and all those good things. And (, turn your eyes

> away) still tall and handsome.

>

> KS

>

[Guest guest]

With all due respect to , and I mean that - I have great respect for him-, I never relied on him to fight for us. Doing so is a mistake. He is a journalist.His last piece (Nov 30) conceded that the supposed continued rise in autism rates in California showed that thimerosal was not the primary causal factor in the rise of autism diagnoses over the two decades. He retreated to saying, and I am paraphrasing, that such a concession does not mean that thimerosal never harmed a child.Maybe he had advance knowledge of the California study, even with all its flaws and limitations.I do not for a minute fault for any position he may take on this issue. Journalists have concerns that are distinct from the concerns of parents, and parent-advocates.Fight for yourself and your own child - do not rely on journalists to fight for you or us.On Jan 9, 2008, at 5:48 PM, soapforum wrote:Well that's weird. I thought he was no longer fighting for us. I am referring to his last piece which stated Thimerosal was no longer in childhood vaccines. He didn't reply to a number of emails, or posts. I mean, I appreciate the work he did in the past and everything..., FA ~>> He's speaking in CT this month along with Fournier and others. > Dan Olmsted and I had breakfast with him at NAA. He's alive and well > and writing and all those good things. And (, turn your eyes > away) still tall and handsome. > > KS>

[Guest guest]

All of this would hold water if thimerosal had been removed from

infant vaccines. Please see Mike Wagnitz's article for a good

treatise on continued thimerosal exposure via vaccinations in

California. In truth, we cannot rely on this type of flawed

ecological data until 2009-2010 at the earliest...

> > >

> > > He's speaking in CT this month along with Fournier and others.

> > > Dan Olmsted and I had breakfast with him at NAA. He's alive and well

> > > and writing and all those good things. And (, turn your eyes

> > > away) still tall and handsome.

> > >

> > > KS

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Could you please post a link to the article you are referring to?

Thanks,

Steve

> > > >

> > > > He's speaking in CT this month along with Fournier and

others.

> > > > Dan Olmsted and I had breakfast with him at NAA. He's alive

and well

> > > > and writing and all those good things. And (, turn your

eyes

> > > > away) still tall and handsome.

> > > >

> > > > KS

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm chiming in, not that needs a damsel in fluffy flannel (I'm in

my pjs) to come to his defense: Evidence of Harm was our equivalent of

Columbus discovering America. It put Thimerosal on the map in a

national debate. I don't think it's fair to expect to then

become Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Harry Truman as well. He

did his job and did it well.

Kim

[Guest guest]

, That is precisely what I had in mind. I am completely in agreement about the flaws in the California study and the false assumptions about the timing and extent of removal of thimerosal in vaccines. My comments were directed to a separate issue – specifically the limitations of journalism to accurately report on this issue, and to effectively make the very points that people like Mike Wagnitz and others are making.BobOn Jan 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Hooker wrote:All of this would hold water if thimerosal had been removed frominfant vaccines. Please see Mike Wagnitz's article for a goodtreatise on continued thimerosal exposure via vaccinations inCalifornia. In truth, we cannot rely on this type of flawedecological data until 2009-2010 at the earliest...> > >> > > He's speaking in CT this month along with Fournier and others.> > > Dan Olmsted and I had breakfast with him at NAA. He's alive and well> > > and writing and all those good things. And (, turn your eyes> > > away) still tall and handsome. > > >> > > KS> > >> >> >> >> J. KrakowAttorney at Law1205 lin Avenue, Suite 110Garden City, New York 11530516-354-3300646-349-1771 (fax)rkrakow@...

[Guest guest]

Kim,I do not know if you were responding to my points, but let me make very clear that my comments were not in any way criticizing Kirby. Rather, I observed  the risks in relying on journalists to fight for our kids, rather that placing reliance on the advocacy of those of us who are directly affected. played a significant and helpful role at a crucial point in time. So I am in full agreement with your point (if not your analogy) that once he published his book and promoted debate on the thimerosal issue we could not and should not have relied on him to carry our cause forward. He is a journalist, not an advocate.We are in agreement on this issue. On Jan 10, 2008, at 6:54 AM, krstagliano wrote:I'm chiming in, not that needs a damsel in fluffy flannel (I'm in my pjs) to come to his defense: Evidence of Harm was our equivalent of Columbus discovering America. It put Thimerosal on the map in a national debate. I don't think it's fair to expect to then become Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Harry Truman as well. He did his job and did it well. Kim J. KrakowAttorney at Law1205 lin Avenue, Suite 110Garden City, New York 11530516-354-3300646-349-1771 (fax)rkrakow@...

[Guest guest]

No, not at all, Bob. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was responding

to 's response to my initial post.

Best,

Kim

[Guest guest]

No, not at all, Bob. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was responding

to 's response to my initial post.

Best,

Kim

[Guest guest]

My "hero" Kirby writes:

Kim, thanks for the very kind words and, Bob, I totally agree with you. I wrote a book, and it helped start a dialogue. I never was an autism activist, and it would not help your cause if I were.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My friend, our treasured little "regressed" guy and his entire extended family, will always be indebted to you. We fully understand your contribution to our family is not limited to your COURAGEOUS book "Evidence of Harm".

God bless you and you can rest assured you will ALWAYS be in our hearts and prayers. Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

Hey folks

To quote my favorite Monty Python sketch (read with thick

Cockney accent) –

“But I’m not dead YET!”

Kim, thanks for the very kind words and, Bob, I totally

agree with you. I wrote a book, and it helped start a dialogue. I never was an

autism activist, and it would not help your cause if I were.

Now, that doesn’t mean I don’t care about all

these kids and their parents, because I really do, and I am not going away. I

have just been busy trying to put together my next book, so I can keep paying

my New York rent (and you

can imagine what that is like).

I did write a major piece on the NEJM study for Mothering

Magazine, (out this spring) and now I am considering how and where to write, in

more detail, my take on the California numbers, though my last Huffpost piece caused a small uproar on both sides –

some parents blasting me for suggesting that thimerosal alone might not be THE major

culprit in the autism epidemic, and the other side blasting me for leaving open

the possibility that the Calif numbers are not the

end of the story, and indeed thimerosal may well have harmed at least some kids

with autism. Still, that’s pretty much right where a journalist ought to

be, I guess: Pissing off everybody.

And please remember that, aside from Huffington

Post, which now automatically shuffles ANY autism piece over the “Living”

section, I don’t have any automatic outlets for my writing. (Though Kim invited me to blog on AOA,

which I look forward to).

For the record, I was asked this fall by the Today Show to

appear on a special segment on the cause of autism. They did quite a bit of pre-interviews

with me and spent a lot of time booking the other guests. But it was killed at

the last minute, and that, frankly, was the last interview request I received.

Otherwise, you would have been hearing from me more!

Thanks to everyone for your continued support. - DK

[Guest guest]

Kim,

We couldn't have found a better example to use then Columbus

discovering America?

I sure hope that analogy isn't even remotely true:(

Chris

>

> No, not at all, Bob. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was

responding

> to 's response to my initial post.

>

> Best,

>

> Kim

>

[Guest guest]

True... Native Americans discovered it by crossing the land bridge after leaving

Mongolia

during the last ice age...

But they didn't tell the Spaniards! The nerve!

> >

> > No, not at all, Bob. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was

> responding

> > to 's response to my initial post.

> >

> > Best,

> >

> > Kim

> >

>

[Guest guest]

At 6:30am with three swigs of coffee? Nope. Feel free to improve upon

it! Mercury? The messenger God? LOL! I think Columbus is better than

that!

KS

[Guest guest]

Great to hear from you, . Question……

Did the “Evidence of Harm” movie get officially killed?

Pamela

" Courage is doing

what you're afraid to do. There can be no courage unless you're

scared. "

Eddie Rickenbacker,

top US

fighter ace, WWI

From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On Behalf Of Kirby

Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008

2:17 PM

EOHarm

Subject: Re: What happend

to Kirby?

Hey folks

To quote my

favorite Monty Python sketch (read with thick Cockney accent)

– “But I’m not dead YET!”

Kim, thanks

for the very kind words and, Bob, I totally agree with you. I wrote a book, and

it helped start a dialogue. I never was an autism activist, and it would not

help your cause if I were.

Now, that

doesn’t mean I don’t

care about all these kids and their parents, because I really do, and I am not

going away. I have just been busy trying to put together my next book, so I can

keep paying my New York

rent (and you can imagine what that is like).

I did write

a major piece on the NEJM study for Mothering Magazine, (out this spring) and

now I am considering how and where to write, in more detail, my take on the

California numbers, though my last Huffpost piece

caused a small uproar on both sides – some

parents blasting me for suggesting that

thimerosal alone might not be THE

major culprit in the autism epidemic, and the other side blasting me for leaving open the possibility that the Calif numbers are not the end of the story, and indeed thimerosal may well have harmed

at least some kids with autism.

Still, that’s pretty much right where a journalist ought to be, I guess:

Pissing off everybody.

And please

remember that, aside from Huffington Post, which now automatically shuffles ANY

autism piece over the “Living” section, I don’t have any

automatic outlets for my writing. (Though Kim invited me to blog on AOA, which I look forward to).

For the

record, I was asked this fall by the Today Show to appear on a special segment on the cause of autism. They did quite a bit of

pre-interviews with me and spent a

lot of time booking the other

guests. But it was killed at the last minute, and that, frankly, was the last

interview request I received. Otherwise, you would have been hearing from me more!

Thanks to

everyone for your continued support. - DK

[Guest guest]

Well Mr. Krakow, I learned about Kirby after the fact. He had

already been " fighting for us " even before I know of him.

I didn't and don't expect anyone to speak for him, which is why I

posted to and emailed him. Likewise, I don't need to be reprimanded

by you or anyone else for simply asking why a reputable writer would

publish something that was not true. Having knowledge of another

untrue news article before it " hits the stands " is no excuse.

I do and have fought for my own child.

You seem to be trying to combine two separate issues into one.

, FA ~

> > >

> > > He's speaking in CT this month along with Fournier and

others.

> > > Dan Olmsted and I had breakfast with him at NAA. He's alive and

well

> > > and writing and all those good things. And (, turn your

eyes

> > > away) still tall and handsome.

> > >

> > > KS

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

But why publish something, known by your readers to be so obviously

untrue? And why would others also educated on the subject defend

that? I don't get it. Isn't that what is referred to (of Wyatt Earp)

as " moral ambiguity " ?

, FA ~

>

> I'm chiming in, not that needs a damsel in fluffy flannel (I'm

in

> my pjs) to come to his defense: Evidence of Harm was our equivalent

of

> Columbus discovering America. It put Thimerosal on the map in a

> national debate. I don't think it's fair to expect to then

> become Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Harry Truman as well.

He

> did his job and did it well.

>

> Kim

>

[Guest guest]

Will all due respect, you are still not addressing why you wrote

incorrectly that Thimerosal had been removed from vaccines, nor why

you didn't correct it.

I really would like to continue to be a fan (whether you care or not).

, FA ~

>

> Hey folks

>

> To quote my favorite Monty Python sketch (read with thick Cockney

> accent) - " But I'm not dead YET! "

>

> Kim, thanks for the very kind words and, Bob, I totally agree with

you.

> I wrote a book, and it helped start a dialogue. I never was an

autism

> activist, and it would not help your cause if I were.

>

> Now, that doesn't mean I don't care about all these kids and their

> parents, because I really do, and I am not going away. I have just

been

> busy trying to put together my next book, so I can keep paying my

New

> York rent (and you can imagine what that is like).

>

> I did write a major piece on the NEJM study for Mothering Magazine,

(out

> this spring) and now I am considering how and where to write, in

more

> detail, my take on the California numbers, though my last Huffpost

piece

> caused a small uproar on both sides - some parents blasting me for

> suggesting that thimerosal alone might not be THE major culprit in

the

> autism epidemic, and the other side blasting me for leaving open the

> possibility that the Calif numbers are not the end of the story, and

> indeed thimerosal may well have harmed at least some kids with

autism.

> Still, that's pretty much right where a journalist ought to be, I

guess:

> Pissing off everybody.

>

> And please remember that, aside from Huffington Post, which now

> automatically shuffles ANY autism piece over the " Living " section, I

> don't have any automatic outlets for my writing. (Though Kim

invited me

> to blog on AOA, which I look forward to).

>

> For the record, I was asked this fall by the Today Show to appear

on a

> special segment on the cause of autism. They did quite a bit of

> pre-interviews with me and spent a lot of time booking the other

guests.

> But it was killed at the last minute, and that, frankly, was the

last

> interview request I received. Otherwise, you would have been hearing

> from me more!

>

> Thanks to everyone for your continued support. - DK

>

[Guest guest]

, FA:I think we have an email misunderstanding. I was not reprimanding you. I was stating my view that we should not look to journalists, including Kirby, to fight for us. I was not suggesting you do not fight for your own child.  I am not excusing Kirby from his journalistic obligations. In fact, I have the same question about the Nov. 30 article that you have. Perhaps I did react incorrectly to your question about Kirby "fighting for us" as suggesting that he should fight for us, or that we should rely on his fighting for us. If your query was solely a question about an apparent turnaround in viewpoint that is certainly appropriate and fair.My focus is on what I perceive as a misplaced reliance on Kirby to advocate for our children or fight for us. Perhaps I did combine two issues, but your message certainly contained the suggestion that was fighting for us and looked to him for that.I am sure you do fight for your child. I am very happy to hear that you do and calling me on the suggestion that this may not be the case. I certainly apologize for any unintended suggestion that conveyed something inconsistent with that.A question about why Kirby would say what he said, and calling for his basis for it, is certainly appropriate. I am not defending or attacking you, or Kirby.My point is about the 'fighting for us'. I don't expect or rely upon any journalist to fight for us. I do expect journalists to back up their information. In that regard I join in your question.I trust this clarifies my message.Bob KrakowPerhaps a question focused on why Kirby stated that, paraphrasing, thimerosal is not the cause of most cases of autism, is the question here, and not Kirby "fightingOn Jan 13, 2008, at 12:04 PM, soapforum wrote:Well Mr. Krakow, I learned about Kirby after the fact. He had already been "fighting for us" even before I know of him.I didn't and don't expect anyone to speak for him, which is why I posted to and emailed him. Likewise, I don't need to be reprimanded by you or anyone else for simply asking why a reputable writer would publish something that was not true. Having knowledge of another untrue news article before it "hits the stands" is no excuse.I do and have fought for my own child. You seem to be trying to combine two separate issues into one., FA ~> > >> > > He's speaking in CT this month along with Fournier and others.> > > Dan Olmsted and I had breakfast with him at NAA. He's alive and well> > > and writing and all those good things. And (, turn your eyes> > > away) still tall and handsome. > > >> > > KS> > >> >> >> >> J. KrakowAttorney at Law1205 lin Avenue, Suite 110Garden City, New York 11530516-354-3300646-349-1771 (fax)rkrakow@...