Re: THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest guest]

Daubert, Daubert, Daubert, Daubert. Daubert. It got in through via

the Supreme Court and we can't get rid of it until they all shuffle

off, basically, and a new court rules against it. I think. Unless

some constitional scholar here can give us some good news on the

power of a (new) president to strike down this stinking, murderous

industry buffer of a ruling.

The following are two pretty ND-smelling blogs (unless someone says

otherwise: from a quick scan, these sites appear to be ND-ish) which

just happen to contain further breakdowns of the case and some

interesting history on how the Daubert ruling has been repeatedly

used against the Geiers' testimony in these cases. For the newcomers--

posting these blogs here is not to advocate the ND credo, it's just

to pillage the time someone took to dig around in detailed reports of

the case.

http://ebdblog.com/2008/01/02/autism-thimerosal-not/

http://tinyurl.com/2zthsl

>

> I am starting a new thread about this because it simply cannot be

> allowed to die down.

>

> (To the legal eagles: Can this decision be overturned? )

>

> http://sev.prnewswire.com/health-care-

> hospitals/20080114/NYM093A14012008-1.html

>

> MADISON, N.J., Jan. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Wyeth (NYSE: WYE)

> announced today that The Honorable Stuart R. Berger of the Circuit

> Court for Baltimore City in Baltimore, land, has granted

Wyeth's

> motion to preclude plaintiffs' expert witnesses in an alleged

vaccine

> injury case from testifying that exposure to thimerosal-containing

> vaccines can cause autism. The court's decision, in the case of

> Blackwell, et al. v. Sigma Aldrich, Inc., et al., followed a 10-day

> evidentiary hearing held last August.

>

> Judge Berger found that " thimerosal in vaccines does not cause or

> contribute to neurodevelopmental disorders such as autism, " noting

> that " it is generally accepted in the relevant scientific community

> that autism is genetic in origin except in rare instances of

prenatal

> exposures to certain substances at defined periods during

pregnancy. "

>

> Judge Berger held that plaintiffs had failed to show that the

> methodologies underlying their expert witnesses' opinions are

> generally accepted as reliable in the scientific community. He also

> held that plaintiffs' expert witnesses were not qualified " by

> knowledge, skill, experience, training or education " or that they

> could not set forth a sufficient factual basis to support the

> causation opinions that plaintiffs wished to present to the jury.

>

> " We believe that the court's decision is in complete accord with

the

> overwhelming scientific evidence that there is no link between

> vaccines and autism. The court correctly applied land law to

bar

> unfounded opinion testimony on scientific issues, " says J.

> ch, lead trial counsel for Wyeth in this litigation, who is a

> partner at Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP.

>

[Guest guest]

Excuse me for sounding trite, but why is everyone so suprised over

this? This is hardly the first time his testimony has been

excluded. Every thimerosal/mmr case he's ever been involved in re to

autism, his testimony has been excluded based on Daubert.

The guy's a false idol.

>

> I am starting a new thread about this because it simply cannot be

> allowed to die down.

>

> (To the legal eagles: Can this decision be overturned? )

>

> http://sev.prnewswire.com/health-care-

> hospitals/20080114/NYM093A14012008-1.html

>

> MADISON, N.J., Jan. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Wyeth (NYSE: WYE)

> announced today that The Honorable Stuart R. Berger of the Circuit

> Court for Baltimore City in Baltimore, land, has granted

Wyeth's

> motion to preclude plaintiffs' expert witnesses in an alleged

vaccine

> injury case from testifying that exposure to thimerosal-containing

> vaccines can cause autism. The court's decision, in the case of

> Blackwell, et al. v. Sigma Aldrich, Inc., et al., followed a 10-

day

> evidentiary hearing held last August.

>

> Judge Berger found that " thimerosal in vaccines does not cause or

> contribute to neurodevelopmental disorders such as autism, " noting

> that " it is generally accepted in the relevant scientific

community

> that autism is genetic in origin except in rare instances of

prenatal

> exposures to certain substances at defined periods during

pregnancy. "

>

> Judge Berger held that plaintiffs had failed to show that the

> methodologies underlying their expert witnesses' opinions are

> generally accepted as reliable in the scientific community. He

also

> held that plaintiffs' expert witnesses were not qualified " by

> knowledge, skill, experience, training or education " or that they

> could not set forth a sufficient factual basis to support the

> causation opinions that plaintiffs wished to present to the jury.

>

> " We believe that the court's decision is in complete accord with

the

> overwhelming scientific evidence that there is no link between

> vaccines and autism. The court correctly applied land law to

bar

> unfounded opinion testimony on scientific issues, " says J.

> ch, lead trial counsel for Wyeth in this litigation, who is

a

> partner at Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP.

>

[Guest guest]

I don't read ND things unless they slip in, onto this group.

A very smart friend of mine in upstate NY had this to say to me in

re: to that ruling:

" A very bad decision, but please take some comfort that

this is a ruling by a judge sitting on a City Court

bench which is about the lowest level of the judiciary

just above Town/Village court. A County court is

higher, followed by Supreme Court, then finally by

Appellate Court. And that is solely for one state, not

Federal. A Federal Court will make the ultimate

decision about vaccines. This Baltimore judge was

auditioning for an appointment to a higher court or to

get a plumb job as a legal counsel to Pharma by

parroting their line about autism being altogether

genetic in origin. He is only a small footnote in the

struggle against autism. "

I also have to say to everyone that Dr. Geier is a wonderful man and

healer. This does not affect him alone. It affects all real

scientists, all mercury poisoned autistics, and all the people who

care about them.

The ridiculous ND and their supporters are not fit to wipe

his.............shoes.

And I am sure he has more compassion for them than I ever will.

> >

> > I am starting a new thread about this because it simply cannot be

> > allowed to die down.

> >

> > (To the legal eagles: Can this decision be overturned? )

> >

> > http://sev.prnewswire.com/health-care-

> > hospitals/20080114/NYM093A14012008-1.html

> >

> > MADISON, N.J., Jan. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Wyeth (NYSE:

WYE)

> > announced today that The Honorable Stuart R. Berger of the

Circuit

> > Court for Baltimore City in Baltimore, land, has granted

> Wyeth's

> > motion to preclude plaintiffs' expert witnesses in an alleged

> vaccine

> > injury case from testifying that exposure to thimerosal-

containing

> > vaccines can cause autism. The court's decision, in the case of

> > Blackwell, et al. v. Sigma Aldrich, Inc., et al., followed a 10-

day

> > evidentiary hearing held last August.

> >

> > Judge Berger found that " thimerosal in vaccines does not cause or

> > contribute to neurodevelopmental disorders such as autism, "

noting

> > that " it is generally accepted in the relevant scientific

community

> > that autism is genetic in origin except in rare instances of

> prenatal

> > exposures to certain substances at defined periods during

> pregnancy. "

> >

> > Judge Berger held that plaintiffs had failed to show that the

> > methodologies underlying their expert witnesses' opinions are

> > generally accepted as reliable in the scientific community. He

also

> > held that plaintiffs' expert witnesses were not qualified " by

> > knowledge, skill, experience, training or education " or that they

> > could not set forth a sufficient factual basis to support the

> > causation opinions that plaintiffs wished to present to the jury.

> >

> > " We believe that the court's decision is in complete accord with

> the

> > overwhelming scientific evidence that there is no link between

> > vaccines and autism. The court correctly applied land law to

> bar

> > unfounded opinion testimony on scientific issues, " says J.

> > ch, lead trial counsel for Wyeth in this litigation, who is

a

> > partner at Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I only posted those blogs because of reference to the use of Daubert

against the Geiers. I'm not even playing devil's advocate, more " know-

your-enemy " . I haven't seen any such detailed breakdown of this

particular legal strategy on our side and I'm kind of hoping one of

our talented writers will get on it soon.

Of course the ND crowd aren't fit to wipe the boots of any of the

plaintiff expert witnesses on our side who've been thrown out of

court due to the Daubert ruling, including the Geiers. It's a

revolting parody of justice to refute scientific testimony based on

it not being " majority view " . Heliocentricity was once the " minority "

scientific view and there are plenty of examples of ludicrous views

which were once the " scientific majority rule " (blood letting, the

theory of bodily " humors " , etc.). But the truth doesn't matter here

because there's Daubert, which doesn't just effect piddling little

courtrooms but has struck accross the country on all levels of the

justice system and was threatened in the Omnibus itself by government

attorneys.

It is up to the individual judge whether to invoke it and your friend

has a point there: judges who regularly invoke Daubert are probably

sucking up to the system. Other judges might opt not to invoke

Daubert and may agree to hear " minority " expert testimony. That just

hasn't been happening a lot lately on any judicial level. Daubert was

a Supreme Court ruling in (I think) 1994. It comes from the top, in

other words.

The next " check " in the endless thimerosal (and other medical

products and devices) chess game is " preemption " , in which state law

is trumped by FDA approval. In other words, if the FDA approves a

substance or product, it doesn't matter if you grow horns on a

medication or medical device or if children's heads blow up from it:

if the FDA approved it, injury suits cannot be filed against it.

Preemption is currently being contended at this moment. I don't know

how realistic it is to expect that preemption will or won't pass. In

some ways, it's a test of our democracy itself: if it passes, it's

not just medical consumers who are in huge trouble.

> > >

> > > I am starting a new thread about this because it simply cannot

be

> > > allowed to die down.

> > >

> > > (To the legal eagles: Can this decision be overturned? )

> > >

> > > http://sev.prnewswire.com/health-care-

> > > hospitals/20080114/NYM093A14012008-1.html

> > >

> > > MADISON, N.J., Jan. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Wyeth (NYSE:

> WYE)

> > > announced today that The Honorable Stuart R. Berger of the

> Circuit

> > > Court for Baltimore City in Baltimore, land, has granted

> > Wyeth's

> > > motion to preclude plaintiffs' expert witnesses in an alleged

> > vaccine

> > > injury case from testifying that exposure to thimerosal-

> containing

> > > vaccines can cause autism. The court's decision, in the case of

> > > Blackwell, et al. v. Sigma Aldrich, Inc., et al., followed a 10-

> day

> > > evidentiary hearing held last August.

> > >

> > > Judge Berger found that " thimerosal in vaccines does not cause

or

> > > contribute to neurodevelopmental disorders such as autism, "

> noting

> > > that " it is generally accepted in the relevant scientific

> community

> > > that autism is genetic in origin except in rare instances of

> > prenatal

> > > exposures to certain substances at defined periods during

> > pregnancy. "

> > >

> > > Judge Berger held that plaintiffs had failed to show that the

> > > methodologies underlying their expert witnesses' opinions are

> > > generally accepted as reliable in the scientific community. He

> also

> > > held that plaintiffs' expert witnesses were not qualified " by

> > > knowledge, skill, experience, training or education " or that

they

> > > could not set forth a sufficient factual basis to support the

> > > causation opinions that plaintiffs wished to present to the

jury.

> > >

> > > " We believe that the court's decision is in complete accord

with

> > the

> > > overwhelming scientific evidence that there is no link between

> > > vaccines and autism. The court correctly applied land law

to

> > bar

> > > unfounded opinion testimony on scientific issues, " says

J.

> > > ch, lead trial counsel for Wyeth in this litigation, who

is

> a

> > > partner at Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I only posted those blogs because of reference to the use of Daubert

> against the Geiers. I'm not even playing devil's advocate, more " know-

> your-enemy " . I haven't seen any such detailed breakdown of this

> particular legal strategy on our side and I'm kind of hoping one of

> our talented writers will get on it soon.

I agree there needs to be a response. I really don't know if

contacting the judge directly is effective or wise. The direction to

take requires some legal expertise.

Lenny

[Guest guest]

Geier told a judge in 2004 that he couldn't name a single study that conclusively links thimerosal to autism. What else can a judge do after hearing that from the plaintiff's own expert witness?_____________helena_batts <helena_batts@...> wrote: Excuse me for sounding trite, but why is everyone so suprised over this? This is hardly the first time his testimony has been excluded. Every thimerosal/mmr case he's ever been involved in re to autism, his testimony has been excluded based on Daubert. The guy's a false

idol. > > I am starting a new thread about this because it simply cannot be > allowed to die down. > > (To the legal eagles: Can this decision be overturned? ) > > http://sev.prnewswire.com/health-care- > hospitals/20080114/NYM093A14012008-1.html > > MADISON, N.J., Jan. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Wyeth (NYSE: WYE) > announced today that The Honorable Stuart R. Berger of the Circuit > Court for Baltimore City in Baltimore, land, has granted Wyeth's > motion to preclude plaintiffs' expert witnesses in an alleged vaccine > injury case from testifying that exposure to thimerosal-containing > vaccines can cause autism. The court's

decision, in the case of > Blackwell, et al. v. Sigma Aldrich, Inc., et al., followed a 10- day > evidentiary hearing held last August. > > Judge Berger found that "thimerosal in vaccines does not cause or > contribute to neurodevelopmental disorders such as autism," noting > that "it is generally accepted in the relevant scientific community > that autism is genetic in origin except in rare instances of prenatal > exposures to certain substances at defined periods during pregnancy." > > Judge Berger held that plaintiffs had failed to show that the > methodologies underlying their expert witnesses' opinions are > generally accepted as reliable in the scientific community. He also > held that plaintiffs' expert witnesses were not qualified "by > knowledge, skill, experience, training or education" or that they > could not set forth a

sufficient factual basis to support the > causation opinions that plaintiffs wished to present to the jury. > > "We believe that the court's decision is in complete accord with the > overwhelming scientific evidence that there is no link between > vaccines and autism. The court correctly applied land law to bar > unfounded opinion testimony on scientific issues," says J. > ch, lead trial counsel for Wyeth in this litigation, who is a > partner at Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP. >

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

It's the Helena and Pat show... yipppeeeee...

Key word in that statement would be CONCLUSIVELY. At least he's

honest. Now, wouldn't it be nice if we could get some studies done

to show CONCLUSIVELY that injecting babies with toxic crap is

actually safe? Of course that will never happen... but whatever...

it's just innocent babies. No biggie...

> >

> > I am starting a new thread about this because it simply cannot

be

> > allowed to die down.

> >

> > (To the legal eagles: Can this decision be overturned? )

> >

> > http://sev.prnewswire.com/health-care-

> > hospitals/20080114/NYM093A14012008-1.html

> >

> > MADISON, N.J., Jan. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Wyeth (NYSE:

WYE)

> > announced today that The Honorable Stuart R. Berger of the

Circuit

> > Court for Baltimore City in Baltimore, land, has granted

> Wyeth's

> > motion to preclude plaintiffs' expert witnesses in an alleged

> vaccine

> > injury case from testifying that exposure to thimerosal-

containing

> > vaccines can cause autism. The court's decision, in the case of

> > Blackwell, et al. v. Sigma Aldrich, Inc., et al., followed a 10-

> day

> > evidentiary hearing held last August.

> >

> > Judge Berger found that " thimerosal in vaccines does not cause

or

> > contribute to neurodevelopmental disorders such as autism, "

noting

> > that " it is generally accepted in the relevant scientific

> community

> > that autism is genetic in origin except in rare instances of

> prenatal

> > exposures to certain substances at defined periods during

> pregnancy. "

> >

> > Judge Berger held that plaintiffs had failed to show that the

> > methodologies underlying their expert witnesses' opinions are

> > generally accepted as reliable in the scientific community. He

> also

> > held that plaintiffs' expert witnesses were not qualified " by

> > knowledge, skill, experience, training or education " or that

they

> > could not set forth a sufficient factual basis to support the

> > causation opinions that plaintiffs wished to present to the jury.

> >

> > " We believe that the court's decision is in complete accord with

> the

> > overwhelming scientific evidence that there is no link between

> > vaccines and autism. The court correctly applied land law to

> bar

> > unfounded opinion testimony on scientific issues, " says

J.

> > ch, lead trial counsel for Wyeth in this litigation, who

is

> a

> > partner at Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile.

Try it now.

>

[Guest guest]

I guess a lot of people are stuck in and want people to be pulled

back into 2004?

Catch up! Four years have past and the same cannot be said.

> >

> > I am starting a new thread about this because it simply cannot

be

> > allowed to die down.

> >

> > (To the legal eagles: Can this decision be overturned? )

> >

> > http://sev.prnewswire.com/health-care-

> > hospitals/20080114/NYM093A14012008-1.html

> >

> > MADISON, N.J., Jan. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Wyeth (NYSE:

WYE)

> > announced today that The Honorable Stuart R. Berger of the

Circuit

> > Court for Baltimore City in Baltimore, land, has granted

> Wyeth's

> > motion to preclude plaintiffs' expert witnesses in an alleged

> vaccine

> > injury case from testifying that exposure to thimerosal-

containing

> > vaccines can cause autism. The court's decision, in the case of

> > Blackwell, et al. v. Sigma Aldrich, Inc., et al., followed a 10-

> day

> > evidentiary hearing held last August.

> >

> > Judge Berger found that " thimerosal in vaccines does not cause

or

> > contribute to neurodevelopmental disorders such as autism, "

noting

> > that " it is generally accepted in the relevant scientific

> community

> > that autism is genetic in origin except in rare instances of

> prenatal

> > exposures to certain substances at defined periods during

> pregnancy. "

> >

> > Judge Berger held that plaintiffs had failed to show that the

> > methodologies underlying their expert witnesses' opinions are

> > generally accepted as reliable in the scientific community. He

> also

> > held that plaintiffs' expert witnesses were not qualified " by

> > knowledge, skill, experience, training or education " or that

they

> > could not set forth a sufficient factual basis to support the

> > causation opinions that plaintiffs wished to present to the jury.

> >

> > " We believe that the court's decision is in complete accord with

> the

> > overwhelming scientific evidence that there is no link between

> > vaccines and autism. The court correctly applied land law to

> bar

> > unfounded opinion testimony on scientific issues, " says

J.

> > ch, lead trial counsel for Wyeth in this litigation, who

is

> a

> > partner at Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile.

Try it now.

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, and never before would I have ever thought I could understand why

some people cut themselves in an attempt to drown out pain from other

sources.

>

>

> It's the Helena and Pat show... yipppeeeee...

>

[Guest guest]

Problem is there is not a single study that conclusively DISPROVES

a link either.

And in my understanding of science, an hypothesis can not be proved

correct anyway. It can only be proved incorrect.

Science goes by a preponderance of evidence in any case, never on

the basis of a single study. To be accepted, the results of any

study must be replicatable by other scientists. A problem arises

in biology where multiple variables are involved, hence making it

almost impossible to truly replicate a study outside a lab with

lab animals, and making it extremely difficult to figure out what

is going on when the condition under study is the result of

multiple factors working in synergy.

There is certainly a preponderance of evidence that thimerosal

is neurotoxic and dangerous to health.

There is certainly NOT a preponderance of evidence that

thimerosal is not linked to autism, though that is how

CDC and others choose to interpret the sum total of the

various epidemiological studies that they and others have

put together.

The only test that could conclusively prove the hypothesis that

thimerosal in vaccines causes an increased incidence of

the behaviors and health problems currently diagnosed as

autism is incorrect, is, imo, a large scale vaccinated versus

unvaccinated study, using vaccines that contain the full

thimerosal load of the 90's.

For some reason, CDC doesn't want to conduct that study.

I suspect it would be tough to find parents willing

to sign a valid " informed consent statement " and enroll their

babies in such a study with the risk that their kids might be the

thimerosal injectees. Perhaps those who are convinced

of vaccine safety and the harmlessness of thimerosal would be

willing to volunteer their offspring/grandkids to be in the

vaccinated test group?

Clearly the judge referenced below (and the one making the

recent ruling) is not a scientist, nor does he/she understand

science. Geier, as a scientist, could not have truthfully

answered other than as he did, imo.

Sue

>

>

> >

> > Geier told a judge in 2004 that he couldn't name a single study

> that conclusively links thimerosal to autism. What else can a judge

> do after hearing that from the plaintiff's own expert witness?

> >

[Guest guest]

I think all of the CDC employees should sign their kids up for the study. Then be injected themselves. Then stand there and tell any parent with a toxic child that the vaccines didn't do it after watching themselves and their own children suffer for life. You can bet they'd run for the hills before they'd let that happen. Mercury is toxic no matter where it's injected. So is aluminum, canadium, and all the other crap they put in as "preservatives." No child needs 30 plus immunizations for ANYTHING before they reach school age. And when they get to school, they don't need any more than what they got before they got there. Why do you think our elderly are diagnosed more and more with Alzheimer's and dementia? Flu shots are loaded with mercury and most docs insist that the elderly be immunized. Their immune systems are

already over burdened, now just shoot them up with toxin. Of course they're going to have neurological damage along with a host of other ailments. And probably get the flu as well. If there is even one speculation that there is a connection, why would any agency, person or government allow this to continue? If even ONE life is put in danger, why continue? I'm always in awe but no longer amazed. Sophialearningstillalways <learningstillalways@...> wrote: Problem is there is not a single study that conclusively DISPROVES a link either. And in my understanding of science, an hypothesis can not be proved correct anyway. It can only be proved incorrect.Science goes by a preponderance of evidence in any case, never onthe basis of a single study. To be accepted, the results of anystudy must be replicatable by other scientists. A problem arisesin biology where multiple variables are involved, hence making italmost impossible to truly replicate a study outside a lab withlab animals, and making it extremely difficult to figure out what is going on when the condition under study is the result of multiple factors working in synergy. There is certainly a preponderance of evidence that thimerosalis neurotoxic and dangerous to health. There is certainly NOT a preponderance of evidence that

thimerosal is not linked to autism, though that is howCDC and others choose to interpret the sum total of the various epidemiological studies that they and others have put together. The only test that could conclusively prove the hypothesis thatthimerosal in vaccines causes an increased incidence ofthe behaviors and health problems currently diagnosed as autism is incorrect, is, imo, a large scale vaccinated versus unvaccinated study, using vaccines that contain the full thimerosal load of the 90's. For some reason, CDC doesn't want to conduct that study. I suspect it would be tough to find parents willingto sign a valid "informed consent statement " and enroll their babies in such a study with the risk that their kids might be thethimerosal injectees. Perhaps those who are convincedof vaccine safety and the harmlessness of thimerosal would be willing to volunteer their offspring/grandkids to be in

the vaccinated test group?Clearly the judge referenced below (and the one making therecent ruling) is not a scientist, nor does he/she understand science. Geier, as a scientist, could not have truthfully answered other than as he did, imo.Sue> > > >> > Geier told a judge in 2004 that he couldn't name a single study > that conclusively links thimerosal to autism. What else can a judge > do after hearing that from the plaintiff's own expert witness?> >

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

I think all of the CDC employees should sign their kids up for the study. Then be injected themselves. Then stand there and tell any parent with a toxic child that the vaccines didn't do it after watching themselves and their own children suffer for life. You can bet they'd run for the hills before they'd let that happen. Mercury is toxic no matter where it's injected. So is aluminum, canadium, and all the other crap they put in as "preservatives." No child needs 30 plus immunizations for ANYTHING before they reach school age. And when they get to school, they don't need any more than what they got before they got there. Why do you think our elderly are diagnosed more and more with Alzheimer's and dementia? Flu shots are loaded with mercury and most docs insist that the elderly be immunized. Their immune systems are

already over burdened, now just shoot them up with toxin. Of course they're going to have neurological damage along with a host of other ailments. And probably get the flu as well. If there is even one speculation that there is a connection, why would any agency, person or government allow this to continue? If even ONE life is put in danger, why continue? I'm always in awe but no longer amazed. Sophialearningstillalways <learningstillalways@...> wrote: Problem is there is not a single study that conclusively DISPROVES a link either. And in my understanding of science, an hypothesis can not be proved correct anyway. It can only be proved incorrect.Science goes by a preponderance of evidence in any case, never onthe basis of a single study. To be accepted, the results of anystudy must be replicatable by other scientists. A problem arisesin biology where multiple variables are involved, hence making italmost impossible to truly replicate a study outside a lab withlab animals, and making it extremely difficult to figure out what is going on when the condition under study is the result of multiple factors working in synergy. There is certainly a preponderance of evidence that thimerosalis neurotoxic and dangerous to health. There is certainly NOT a preponderance of evidence that

thimerosal is not linked to autism, though that is howCDC and others choose to interpret the sum total of the various epidemiological studies that they and others have put together. The only test that could conclusively prove the hypothesis thatthimerosal in vaccines causes an increased incidence ofthe behaviors and health problems currently diagnosed as autism is incorrect, is, imo, a large scale vaccinated versus unvaccinated study, using vaccines that contain the full thimerosal load of the 90's. For some reason, CDC doesn't want to conduct that study. I suspect it would be tough to find parents willingto sign a valid "informed consent statement " and enroll their babies in such a study with the risk that their kids might be thethimerosal injectees. Perhaps those who are convincedof vaccine safety and the harmlessness of thimerosal would be willing to volunteer their offspring/grandkids to be in

the vaccinated test group?Clearly the judge referenced below (and the one making therecent ruling) is not a scientist, nor does he/she understand science. Geier, as a scientist, could not have truthfully answered other than as he did, imo.Sue> > > >> > Geier told a judge in 2004 that he couldn't name a single study > that conclusively links thimerosal to autism. What else can a judge > do after hearing that from the plaintiff's own expert witness?> >

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

listen pat there are plenty of studies linking thimerosal to neuro

toxicity.They good ol docs. just use Autism so they don't have to

say " mam I am sorry I screwed up your kid. He has suffered sequale

due to being injected with toxins or from serum sickness.

> >

> > I am starting a new thread about this because it simply cannot

be

> > allowed to die down.

> >

> > (To the legal eagles: Can this decision be overturned? )

> >

> > http://sev.prnewswire.com/health-care-

> > hospitals/20080114/NYM093A14012008-1.html

> >

> > MADISON, N.J., Jan. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Wyeth (NYSE:

WYE)

> > announced today that The Honorable Stuart R. Berger of the

Circuit

> > Court for Baltimore City in Baltimore, land, has granted

> Wyeth's

> > motion to preclude plaintiffs' expert witnesses in an alleged

> vaccine

> > injury case from testifying that exposure to thimerosal-

containing

> > vaccines can cause autism. The court's decision, in the case of

> > Blackwell, et al. v. Sigma Aldrich, Inc., et al., followed a 10-

> day

> > evidentiary hearing held last August.

> >

> > Judge Berger found that " thimerosal in vaccines does not cause

or

> > contribute to neurodevelopmental disorders such as autism, "

noting

> > that " it is generally accepted in the relevant scientific

> community

> > that autism is genetic in origin except in rare instances of

> prenatal

> > exposures to certain substances at defined periods during

> pregnancy. "

> >

> > Judge Berger held that plaintiffs had failed to show that the

> > methodologies underlying their expert witnesses' opinions are

> > generally accepted as reliable in the scientific community. He

> also

> > held that plaintiffs' expert witnesses were not qualified " by

> > knowledge, skill, experience, training or education " or that

they

> > could not set forth a sufficient factual basis to support the

> > causation opinions that plaintiffs wished to present to the jury.

> >

> > " We believe that the court's decision is in complete accord with

> the

> > overwhelming scientific evidence that there is no link between

> > vaccines and autism. The court correctly applied land law to

> bar

> > unfounded opinion testimony on scientific issues, " says

J.

> > ch, lead trial counsel for Wyeth in this litigation, who

is

> a

> > partner at Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile.

Try it now.

>

[Guest guest]

I hope these lawyers join our group and learn more.

--- sammysouthie <sammysouthie@...> wrote:

> listen pat there are plenty of studies linking

> thimerosal to neuro

> toxicity.They good ol docs. just use Autism so they

> don't have to

> say " mam I am sorry I screwed up your kid. He has

> suffered sequale

> due to being injected with toxins or from serum

> sickness.

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > I am starting a new thread about this because

> it simply cannot

> be

> > > allowed to die down.

> > >

> > > (To the legal eagles: Can this decision be

> overturned? )

> > >

> > > http://sev.prnewswire.com/health-care-

> > > hospitals/20080114/NYM093A14012008-1.html

> > >

> > > MADISON, N.J., Jan. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/

> -- Wyeth (NYSE:

> WYE)

> > > announced today that The Honorable Stuart R.

> Berger of the

> Circuit

> > > Court for Baltimore City in Baltimore,

> land, has granted

> > Wyeth's

> > > motion to preclude plaintiffs' expert witnesses

> in an alleged

> > vaccine

> > > injury case from testifying that exposure to

> thimerosal-

> containing

> > > vaccines can cause autism. The court's

> decision, in the case of

> > > Blackwell, et al. v. Sigma Aldrich, Inc., et

> al., followed a 10-

> > day

> > > evidentiary hearing held last August.

> > >

> > > Judge Berger found that " thimerosal in vaccines

> does not cause

> or

> > > contribute to neurodevelopmental disorders such

> as autism, "

> noting

> > > that " it is generally accepted in the relevant

> scientific

> > community

> > > that autism is genetic in origin except in rare

> instances of

> > prenatal

> > > exposures to certain substances at defined

> periods during

> > pregnancy. "

> > >

> > > Judge Berger held that plaintiffs had failed to

> show that the

> > > methodologies underlying their expert

> witnesses' opinions are

> > > generally accepted as reliable in the

> scientific community. He

> > also

> > > held that plaintiffs' expert witnesses were not

> qualified " by

> > > knowledge, skill, experience, training or

> education " or that

> they

> > > could not set forth a sufficient factual basis

> to support the

> > > causation opinions that plaintiffs wished to

> present to the jury.

> > >

> > > " We believe that the court's decision is in

> complete accord with

> > the

> > > overwhelming scientific evidence that there is

> no link between

> > > vaccines and autism. The court correctly

> applied land law to

> > bar

> > > unfounded opinion testimony on scientific

> issues, " says

> J.

> > > ch, lead trial counsel for Wyeth in this

> litigation, who

> is

> > a

> > > partner at Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all

> with Mobile.

> Try it now.

> >

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Be a better friend, newshound, and

know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

[Guest guest]

--Lenny, I think you are the guy to organize everyone. We must have

some lawyers on the various list.I e-mailed Imus.We need to get moving

- In EOHarm , " schaferatsprynet " <schafer@...> wrote:

>

>

> >

> > I only posted those blogs because of reference to the use of

Daubert

> > against the Geiers. I'm not even playing devil's advocate,

more " know-

> > your-enemy " . I haven't seen any such detailed breakdown of this

> > particular legal strategy on our side and I'm kind of hoping one of

> > our talented writers will get on it soon.

>

>

> I agree there needs to be a response. I really don't know if

> contacting the judge directly is effective or wise. The direction to

> take requires some legal expertise.

>

> Lenny

>

[Guest guest]

Whoa! Don't kill the messenger. I'm just telling you what Geier told a judge in 2004. If there are plenty of studies as you suggest, then why didn't Geier cite them?My point is that there's not much that a judge can do during Daubert when an expert witness folds like Geier did."L. T" <mrefus@...> wrote: I hope these lawyers join our group and learn more. --- sammysouthie <sammysouthie > wrote: > listen pat there are plenty of studies linking >

thimerosal to neuro > toxicity.They good ol docs. just use Autism so they > don't have to > say "mam I am sorry I screwed up your kid. He has > suffered sequale > due to being injected with toxins or from serum > sickness. > > > > > > > > > > I am starting a new thread about this because > it simply cannot > be > > > allowed to die down. > > > > > > (To the legal eagles: Can this decision be > overturned? ) > > > > > > http://sev.prnewswire.com/health-care- > > > hospitals/20080114/NYM093A14012008-1.html > > >

> > > MADISON, N.J., Jan. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ > -- Wyeth (NYSE: > WYE) > > > announced today that The Honorable Stuart R. > Berger of the > Circuit > > > Court for Baltimore City in Baltimore, > land, has granted > > Wyeth's > > > motion to preclude plaintiffs' expert witnesses > in an alleged > > vaccine > > > injury case from testifying that exposure to > thimerosal- > containing > > > vaccines can cause autism. The court's > decision, in the case of > > > Blackwell, et al. v. Sigma Aldrich, Inc., et > al., followed a 10- > > day > > > evidentiary hearing held last August. > > > > > > Judge Berger found that "thimerosal in vaccines > does not cause > or > > > contribute to

neurodevelopmental disorders such > as autism," > noting > > > that "it is generally accepted in the relevant > scientific > > community > > > that autism is genetic in origin except in rare > instances of > > prenatal > > > exposures to certain substances at defined > periods during > > pregnancy." > > > > > > Judge Berger held that plaintiffs had failed to > show that the > > > methodologies underlying their expert > witnesses' opinions are > > > generally accepted as reliable in the > scientific community. He > > also > > > held that plaintiffs' expert witnesses were not > qualified "by > > > knowledge, skill, experience, training or > education" or that > they > > > could not set forth a sufficient

factual basis > to support the > > > causation opinions that plaintiffs wished to > present to the jury. > > > > > > "We believe that the court's decision is in > complete accord with > > the > > > overwhelming scientific evidence that there is > no link between > > > vaccines and autism. The court correctly > applied land law to > > bar > > > unfounded opinion testimony on scientific > issues," says > J. > > > ch, lead trial counsel for Wyeth in this > litigation, who > is > > a > > > partner at Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

--------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all > with Mobile. > Try it now. > > > > > __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Yes, thimerosal at and above certain does is certainly neurotoxic. But in the 2004 court case (involving RhoGam), the question was whether thimerosal, as administered, causes autism. Geier answered truthfully - that he could not name a single study linking thimerosal to autism. If you read the transcript, Geier also said he couldn't cite a single study linking mercury to autism.When he's not under oath, Geier tells his patients something else. Where's the outrage, people?learningstillalways <learningstillalways@...> wrote: Problem is there is

not a single study that conclusively DISPROVES a link either. And in my understanding of science, an hypothesis can not be proved correct anyway. It can only be proved incorrect. Science goes by a preponderance of evidence in any case, never on the basis of a single study. To be accepted, the results of any study must be replicatable by other scientists. A problem arises in biology where multiple variables are involved, hence making it almost impossible to truly replicate a study outside a lab with lab animals, and making it extremely difficult to figure out what is going on when the condition under study is the result of multiple factors working in synergy. There is certainly a preponderance of evidence that thimerosal is neurotoxic and dangerous to health. There is certainly NOT a preponderance of evidence that thimerosal is not linked to autism, though that is how CDC and

others choose to interpret the sum total of the various epidemiological studies that they and others have put together. The only test that could conclusively prove the hypothesis that thimerosal in vaccines causes an increased incidence of the behaviors and health problems currently diagnosed as autism is incorrect, is, imo, a large scale vaccinated versus unvaccinated study, using vaccines that contain the full thimerosal load of the 90's. For some reason, CDC doesn't want to conduct that study. I suspect it would be tough to find parents willing to sign a valid "informed consent statement " and enroll their babies in such a study with the risk that their kids might be the thimerosal injectees. Perhaps those who are convinced of vaccine safety and the harmlessness of thimerosal would be willing to volunteer their offspring/grandkids to be in the vaccinated test group? Clearly

the judge referenced below (and the one making the recent ruling) is not a scientist, nor does he/she understand science. Geier, as a scientist, could not have truthfully answered other than as he did, imo. Sue > > > > > > Geier told a judge in 2004 that he couldn't name a single study > that conclusively links thimerosal to autism. What else can a judge > do after hearing that from the plaintiff's own expert witness? > >

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

There's evidence that Santa Claus brings presents for all the good girls and boys. But it's not conclusive evidence. So yes, you are right, the key word is conclusive. Evidence comes in different flavors. The kind that matters is conclusive.celiacdaughter <suemisiaszek@...> wrote: It's the Helena and Pat show... yipppeeeee... Key word in that statement would be CONCLUSIVELY. At least he's honest. Now, wouldn't it be nice if we could get some studies done to show CONCLUSIVELY that injecting babies with toxic crap is

actually safe? Of course that will never happen... but whatever... it's just innocent babies. No biggie... > > > > I am starting a new thread about this because it simply cannot be > > allowed to die down. > > > > (To the legal eagles: Can this decision be overturned? ) > > > > http://sev.prnewswire.com/health-care- > > hospitals/20080114/NYM093A14012008-1.html > > > > MADISON, N.J., Jan. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Wyeth (NYSE: WYE) > > announced today that The Honorable Stuart R. Berger of the Circuit > > Court for Baltimore City in Baltimore, land, has granted > Wyeth's > > motion to preclude plaintiffs' expert witnesses in an alleged > vaccine > > injury case from testifying that

exposure to thimerosal- containing > > vaccines can cause autism. The court's decision, in the case of > > Blackwell, et al. v. Sigma Aldrich, Inc., et al., followed a 10- > day > > evidentiary hearing held last August. > > > > Judge Berger found that "thimerosal in vaccines does not cause or > > contribute to neurodevelopmental disorders such as autism," noting > > that "it is generally accepted in the relevant scientific > community > > that autism is genetic in origin except in rare instances of > prenatal > > exposures to certain substances at defined periods during > pregnancy." > > > > Judge Berger held that plaintiffs had failed to show that the > > methodologies underlying their expert witnesses' opinions are > > generally accepted as reliable in the scientific

community. He > also > > held that plaintiffs' expert witnesses were not qualified "by > > knowledge, skill, experience, training or education" or that they > > could not set forth a sufficient factual basis to support the > > causation opinions that plaintiffs wished to present to the jury. > > > > "We believe that the court's decision is in complete accord with > the > > overwhelming scientific evidence that there is no link between > > vaccines and autism. The court correctly applied land law to > bar > > unfounded opinion testimony on scientific issues," says J. > > ch, lead trial counsel for Wyeth in this litigation, who is > a > > partner at Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. >

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Perhaps you should check your Geier quotation directly with Dr.

Geier himself... Email him at mgeier@... before taking a

snippet of his testimony and posting it on a public group...

Daubert (and Frye) are not as simple as you are representing.

> > > >

> > > > I am starting a new thread about this because

> > it simply cannot

> > be

> > > > allowed to die down.

> > > >

> > > > (To the legal eagles: Can this decision be

> > overturned? )

> > > >

> > > > http://sev.prnewswire.com/health-care-

> > > > hospitals/20080114/NYM093A14012008-1.html

> > > >

> > > > MADISON, N.J., Jan. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/

> > -- Wyeth (NYSE:

> > WYE)

> > > > announced today that The Honorable Stuart R.

> > Berger of the

> > Circuit

> > > > Court for Baltimore City in Baltimore,

> > land, has granted

> > > Wyeth's

> > > > motion to preclude plaintiffs' expert witnesses

> > in an alleged

> > > vaccine

> > > > injury case from testifying that exposure to

> > thimerosal-

> > containing

> > > > vaccines can cause autism. The court's

> > decision, in the case of

> > > > Blackwell, et al. v. Sigma Aldrich, Inc., et

> > al., followed a 10-

> > > day

> > > > evidentiary hearing held last August.

> > > >

> > > > Judge Berger found that " thimerosal in vaccines

> > does not cause

> > or

> > > > contribute to neurodevelopmental disorders such

> > as autism, "

> > noting

> > > > that " it is generally accepted in the relevant

> > scientific

> > > community

> > > > that autism is genetic in origin except in rare

> > instances of

> > > prenatal

> > > > exposures to certain substances at defined

> > periods during

> > > pregnancy. "

> > > >

> > > > Judge Berger held that plaintiffs had failed to

> > show that the

> > > > methodologies underlying their expert

> > witnesses' opinions are

> > > > generally accepted as reliable in the

> > scientific community. He

> > > also

> > > > held that plaintiffs' expert witnesses were not

> > qualified " by

> > > > knowledge, skill, experience, training or

> > education " or that

> > they

> > > > could not set forth a sufficient factual basis

> > to support the

> > > > causation opinions that plaintiffs wished to

> > present to the jury.

> > > >

> > > > " We believe that the court's decision is in

> > complete accord with

> > > the

> > > > overwhelming scientific evidence that there is

> > no link between

> > > > vaccines and autism. The court correctly

> > applied land law to

> > > bar

> > > > unfounded opinion testimony on scientific

> > issues, " says

> > J.

> > > > ch, lead trial counsel for Wyeth in this

> > litigation, who

> > is

> > > a

> > > > partner at Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all

> > with Mobile.

> > Try it now.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

> __________________________________________________________

> Be a better friend, newshound, and

> know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with

Mobile. Try it now.

>

[Guest guest]

When you examine the 'evidence' that Santa Claus brings presents... it doesn't

stand up.

His signature is ALWAYS different from household to household. Physics, however,

is what

puts the nail in his coffin... If he COULD move fast enough to deliver that many

presents

(spending only .5 microseconds per home), he'd have burned up in the atmosphere

long

ago.

The evidence showing vaccine injury and causation is MUCH stronger! :-)

> > >

> > > I am starting a new thread about this because it simply cannot

> be

> > > allowed to die down.

> > >

> > > (To the legal eagles: Can this decision be overturned? )

> > >

> > > http://sev.prnewswire.com/health-care-

> > > hospitals/20080114/NYM093A14012008-1.html

> > >

> > > MADISON, N.J., Jan. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Wyeth (NYSE:

> WYE)

> > > announced today that The Honorable Stuart R. Berger of the

> Circuit

> > > Court for Baltimore City in Baltimore, land, has granted

> > Wyeth's

> > > motion to preclude plaintiffs' expert witnesses in an alleged

> > vaccine

> > > injury case from testifying that exposure to thimerosal-

> containing

> > > vaccines can cause autism. The court's decision, in the case of

> > > Blackwell, et al. v. Sigma Aldrich, Inc., et al., followed a 10-

> > day

> > > evidentiary hearing held last August.

> > >

> > > Judge Berger found that " thimerosal in vaccines does not cause

> or

> > > contribute to neurodevelopmental disorders such as autism, "

> noting

> > > that " it is generally accepted in the relevant scientific

> > community

> > > that autism is genetic in origin except in rare instances of

> > prenatal

> > > exposures to certain substances at defined periods during

> > pregnancy. "

> > >

> > > Judge Berger held that plaintiffs had failed to show that the

> > > methodologies underlying their expert witnesses' opinions are

> > > generally accepted as reliable in the scientific community. He

> > also

> > > held that plaintiffs' expert witnesses were not qualified " by

> > > knowledge, skill, experience, training or education " or that

> they

> > > could not set forth a sufficient factual basis to support the

> > > causation opinions that plaintiffs wished to present to the jury.

> > >

> > > " We believe that the court's decision is in complete accord with

> > the

> > > overwhelming scientific evidence that there is no link between

> > > vaccines and autism. The court correctly applied land law to

> > bar

> > > unfounded opinion testimony on scientific issues, " says

> J.

> > > ch, lead trial counsel for Wyeth in this litigation, who

> is

> > a

> > > partner at Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile.

> Try it now.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it

now.

>

[Guest guest]

you don't know the background to any of this and obviously don't know that this is not black and white to most involved. and you obviously don't know the Geiers either--smart, passionate people that care very much about our children. You are also over-simplifying a very complicated matter. maurinePat Howregan <pathow73clp@...> wrote: Whoa! Don't kill the messenger. I'm just telling you what Geier told a judge in 2004. If there are plenty of studies as you suggest, then why didn't Geier

cite them?My point is that there's not much that a judge can do during Daubert when an expert witness folds like Geier did."L. T" <mrefus > wrote: I hope these lawyers join our group and learn more.--- sammysouthie <sammysouthie > wrote:> listen pat there are plenty of studies linking> thimerosal to neuro > toxicity.They good ol docs. just use Autism so they> don't have to > say "mam I am sorry I screwed up your kid. He has> suffered sequale > due to being injected with toxins or from serum> sickness.> > > > > > >> > > I am

starting a new thread about this because> it simply cannot > be > > > allowed to die down.> > > > > > (To the legal eagles: Can this decision be> overturned? )> > > > > > http://sev.prnewswire.com/health-care-> > > hospitals/20080114/NYM093A14012008-1.html> > > > > > MADISON, N.J., Jan. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/> -- Wyeth (NYSE: > WYE) > > > announced today that The Honorable Stuart R.> Berger of the > Circuit > > > Court for Baltimore City in Baltimore,> land, has granted > > Wyeth's > > > motion to preclude plaintiffs' expert witnesses> in an alleged > > vaccine > > > injury case from testifying that exposure to> thimerosal-> containing

> > > vaccines can cause autism. The court's> decision, in the case of > > > Blackwell, et al. v. Sigma Aldrich, Inc., et> al., followed a 10-> > day > > > evidentiary hearing held last August.> > > > > > Judge Berger found that "thimerosal in vaccines> does not cause > or > > > contribute to neurodevelopmental disorders such> as autism," > noting > > > that "it is generally accepted in the relevant> scientific > > community > > > that autism is genetic in origin except in rare> instances of > > prenatal > > > exposures to certain substances at defined> periods during > > pregnancy."> > > > > > Judge Berger held that plaintiffs had failed to> show that the > > > methodologies underlying their expert>

witnesses' opinions are > > > generally accepted as reliable in the> scientific community. He > > also > > > held that plaintiffs' expert witnesses were not> qualified "by > > > knowledge, skill, experience, training or> education" or that > they > > > could not set forth a sufficient factual basis> to support the > > > causation opinions that plaintiffs wished to> present to the jury.> > > > > > "We believe that the court's decision is in> complete accord with > > the > > > overwhelming scientific evidence that there is> no link between > > > vaccines and autism. The court correctly> applied land law to > > bar > > > unfounded opinion testimony on scientific> issues," says > J. > > > ch, lead trial counsel for

Wyeth in this> litigation, who > is > > a > > > partner at Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP.> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all> with Mobile. > Try it now.> >> > > __________________________________________________________Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

[Guest guest]

Actually, I'm quoting from a transcript.Maurine Meleck <maurine_meleck@...> wrote: you don't know the background to any of this and obviously don't know that this is not black and white to most involved. and you obviously don't know the Geiers either--smart, passionate people that care very much about our children. You are also over-simplifying a very complicated matter. maurinePat Howregan <pathow73clp > wrote: Whoa! Don't kill the messenger. I'm just telling you what Geier told a judge in 2004. If there are plenty of studies as you suggest, then why didn't Geier cite them?My point is that there's not much that a judge can do during Daubert when an expert witness folds like Geier did."L. T" <mrefus > wrote: I hope these lawyers join our group and learn more.--- sammysouthie <sammysouthie > wrote:> listen pat there are plenty of studies linking> thimerosal to neuro > toxicity.They good ol docs. just use Autism so they> don't have to > say "mam I am sorry I screwed up your kid. He has> suffered sequale > due to being

injected with toxins or from serum> sickness.> > > > > > >> > > I am starting a new thread about this because> it simply cannot > be > > > allowed to die down.> > > > > > (To the legal eagles: Can this decision be> overturned? )> > > > > > http://sev.prnewswire.com/health-care-> > > hospitals/20080114/NYM093A14012008-1.html> > > > > > MADISON, N.J., Jan. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/> -- Wyeth (NYSE: > WYE) > > > announced today that The Honorable Stuart R.> Berger of the > Circuit > > > Court for Baltimore City in Baltimore,> land, has granted

> > Wyeth's > > > motion to preclude plaintiffs' expert witnesses> in an alleged > > vaccine > > > injury case from testifying that exposure to> thimerosal-> containing > > > vaccines can cause autism. The court's> decision, in the case of > > > Blackwell, et al. v. Sigma Aldrich, Inc., et> al., followed a 10-> > day > > > evidentiary hearing held last August.> > > > > > Judge Berger found that "thimerosal in vaccines> does not cause > or > > > contribute to neurodevelopmental disorders such> as autism," > noting > > > that "it is generally accepted in the relevant> scientific > > community > > > that autism is genetic in origin except in rare> instances of > > prenatal > > > exposures to certain substances

at defined> periods during > > pregnancy."> > > > > > Judge Berger held that plaintiffs had failed to> show that the > > > methodologies underlying their expert> witnesses' opinions are > > > generally accepted as reliable in the> scientific community. He > > also > > > held that plaintiffs' expert witnesses were not> qualified "by > > > knowledge, skill, experience, training or> education" or that > they > > > could not set forth a sufficient factual basis> to support the > > > causation opinions that plaintiffs wished to> present to the jury.> > > > > > "We believe that the court's decision is in> complete accord with > > the > > > overwhelming scientific evidence that there is> no link between > > > vaccines

and autism. The court correctly> applied land law to > > bar > > > unfounded opinion testimony on scientific> issues," says > J. > > > ch, lead trial counsel for Wyeth in this> litigation, who > is > > a > > > partner at Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP.> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all> with Mobile. > Try it now.> >> > > __________________________________________________________Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

and there is no study that doesn't conclusively link thimerosal to autism. This is politics-not science at this pointPat Howregan <pathow73clp@...> wrote: Actually, I'm quoting from a transcript.Maurine Meleck <maurine_meleck > wrote: you don't know the background to any of this and obviously don't know that this is not black and white to most involved. and you

obviously don't know the Geiers either--smart, passionate people that care very much about our children. You are also over-simplifying a very complicated matter. maurinePat Howregan <pathow73clp > wrote: Whoa! Don't kill the messenger. I'm just telling you what Geier told a judge in 2004. If there are plenty of studies as you suggest, then why didn't Geier cite them?My point is that there's not much that a judge can do during Daubert when an expert witness folds like Geier did."L. T" <mrefus > wrote: I hope these lawyers join our group and learn more.--- sammysouthie <sammysouthie > wrote:> listen pat there are plenty of studies linking> thimerosal to neuro > toxicity.They good ol docs. just use Autism so they> don't have to > say "mam I am sorry I screwed up your kid. He has> suffered sequale > due to being injected with toxins or from serum> sickness.> > > > > > >> > > I am starting a new thread about this because> it simply cannot > be > > > allowed to die down.> > > > > > (To the legal eagles: Can this decision be> overturned? )> > > > > > http://sev.prnewswire.com/health-care-> > >

hospitals/20080114/NYM093A14012008-1.html> > > > > > MADISON, N.J., Jan. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/> -- Wyeth (NYSE: > WYE) > > > announced today that The Honorable Stuart R.> Berger of the > Circuit > > > Court for Baltimore City in Baltimore,> land, has granted > > Wyeth's > > > motion to preclude plaintiffs' expert witnesses> in an alleged > > vaccine > > > injury case from testifying that exposure to> thimerosal-> containing > > > vaccines can cause autism. The court's> decision, in the case of > > > Blackwell, et al. v. Sigma Aldrich, Inc., et> al., followed a 10-> > day > > > evidentiary hearing held last August.> > > > > > Judge Berger found that "thimerosal in vaccines> does not cause > or

> > > contribute to neurodevelopmental disorders such> as autism," > noting > > > that "it is generally accepted in the relevant> scientific > > community > > > that autism is genetic in origin except in rare> instances of > > prenatal > > > exposures to certain substances at defined> periods during > > pregnancy."> > > > > > Judge Berger held that plaintiffs had failed to> show that the > > > methodologies underlying their expert> witnesses' opinions are > > > generally accepted as reliable in the> scientific community. He > > also > > > held that plaintiffs' expert witnesses were not> qualified "by > > > knowledge, skill, experience, training or> education" or that > they > > > could not set forth a sufficient

factual basis> to support the > > > causation opinions that plaintiffs wished to> present to the jury.> > > > > > "We believe that the court's decision is in> complete accord with > > the > > > overwhelming scientific evidence that there is> no link between > > > vaccines and autism. The court correctly> applied land law to > > bar > > > unfounded opinion testimony on scientific> issues," says > J. > > > ch, lead trial counsel for Wyeth in this> litigation, who > is > > a > > > partner at Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP.> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all> with

Mobile. > Try it now.> >> > > __________________________________________________________Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

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Have you come up with the *conclusive evidence* that the toxic

ingredients in vaccinations are safe to be injected into babies,

Pat? I didn't think so...

> > >

> > > I am starting a new thread about this because it simply

cannot

> be

> > > allowed to die down.

> > >

> > > (To the legal eagles: Can this decision be overturned? )

> > >

> > > http://sev.prnewswire.com/health-care-

> > > hospitals/20080114/NYM093A14012008-1.html

> > >

> > > MADISON, N.J., Jan. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Wyeth (NYSE:

> WYE)

> > > announced today that The Honorable Stuart R. Berger of the

> Circuit

> > > Court for Baltimore City in Baltimore, land, has granted

> > Wyeth's

> > > motion to preclude plaintiffs' expert witnesses in an alleged

> > vaccine

> > > injury case from testifying that exposure to thimerosal-

> containing

> > > vaccines can cause autism. The court's decision, in the case

of

> > > Blackwell, et al. v. Sigma Aldrich, Inc., et al., followed a

10-

> > day

> > > evidentiary hearing held last August.

> > >

> > > Judge Berger found that " thimerosal in vaccines does not

cause

> or

> > > contribute to neurodevelopmental disorders such as autism, "

> noting

> > > that " it is generally accepted in the relevant scientific

> > community

> > > that autism is genetic in origin except in rare instances of

> > prenatal

> > > exposures to certain substances at defined periods during

> > pregnancy. "

> > >

> > > Judge Berger held that plaintiffs had failed to show that the

> > > methodologies underlying their expert witnesses' opinions are

> > > generally accepted as reliable in the scientific community.

He

> > also

> > > held that plaintiffs' expert witnesses were not qualified " by

> > > knowledge, skill, experience, training or education " or that

> they

> > > could not set forth a sufficient factual basis to support the

> > > causation opinions that plaintiffs wished to present to the

jury.

> > >

> > > " We believe that the court's decision is in complete accord

with

> > the

> > > overwhelming scientific evidence that there is no link

between

> > > vaccines and autism. The court correctly applied land law

to

> > bar

> > > unfounded opinion testimony on scientific issues, " says

> J.

> > > ch, lead trial counsel for Wyeth in this litigation,

who

> is

> > a

> > > partner at Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with

Mobile.

> Try it now.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile.

Try it now.

>

[Guest guest]

The science is long settled. It's all politics now.Maurine Meleck <maurine_meleck@...> wrote: and there is no study that doesn't conclusively link thimerosal to autism. This is politics-not science at this pointPat Howregan <pathow73clp > wrote: Actually, I'm quoting from a transcript.Maurine Meleck <maurine_meleck > wrote: you don't know the background to any of this and obviously don't know that this is not black and white to most involved. and you obviously don't know the Geiers either--smart, passionate people that care very much about our children. You are also over-simplifying a very complicated matter. maurinePat Howregan <pathow73clp > wrote: Whoa! Don't kill the messenger. I'm just telling you what Geier told a judge in 2004. If there are plenty of studies as you suggest, then why didn't Geier cite them?My point is that there's not much that a judge can do during Daubert when an expert witness folds like Geier did."L. T"

<mrefus > wrote: I hope these lawyers join our group and learn more.--- sammysouthie <sammysouthie > wrote:> listen pat there are plenty of studies linking> thimerosal to neuro > toxicity.They good ol docs. just use Autism so they> don't have to > say "mam I am sorry I screwed up your kid. He has> suffered sequale > due to being injected with toxins or from serum> sickness.> > > > > > >> > > I am starting a new thread about this because> it simply cannot > be > > > allowed to die down.> > > > >

> (To the legal eagles: Can this decision be> overturned? )> > > > > > http://sev.prnewswire.com/health-care-> > > hospitals/20080114/NYM093A14012008-1.html> > > > > > MADISON, N.J., Jan. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/> -- Wyeth (NYSE: > WYE) > > > announced today that The Honorable Stuart R.> Berger of the > Circuit > > > Court for Baltimore City in Baltimore,> land, has granted > > Wyeth's > > > motion to preclude plaintiffs' expert witnesses> in an alleged > > vaccine > > > injury case from testifying that exposure to> thimerosal-> containing > > > vaccines can cause autism. The court's> decision, in the case of > > > Blackwell, et al. v. Sigma Aldrich, Inc.,

et> al., followed a 10-> > day > > > evidentiary hearing held last August.> > > > > > Judge Berger found that "thimerosal in vaccines> does not cause > or > > > contribute to neurodevelopmental disorders such> as autism," > noting > > > that "it is generally accepted in the relevant> scientific > > community > > > that autism is genetic in origin except in rare> instances of > > prenatal > > > exposures to certain substances at defined> periods during > > pregnancy."> > > > > > Judge Berger held that plaintiffs had failed to> show that the > > > methodologies underlying their expert> witnesses' opinions are > > > generally accepted as reliable in the> scientific community. He > > also > > >

held that plaintiffs' expert witnesses were not> qualified "by > > > knowledge, skill, experience, training or> education" or that > they > > > could not set forth a sufficient factual basis> to support the > > > causation opinions that plaintiffs wished to> present to the jury.> > > > > > "We believe that the court's decision is in> complete accord with > > the > > > overwhelming scientific evidence that there is> no link between > > > vaccines and autism. The court correctly> applied land law to > > bar > > > unfounded opinion testimony on scientific> issues," says > J. > > > ch, lead trial counsel for Wyeth in this> litigation, who > is > > a > > > partner at Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP.> >

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all> with Mobile. > Try it now.> >> > > __________________________________________________________Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.