Re: thimerosal removal info wanted

[Guest guest]

In 1991, a memo was written by (then) senior Merck Vice-President, Maurice Hilleman, to Dr. Gordon (then) head of Merck's vaccine division indicating that the amount of mercury that babies who received their shots on schedule was 87 times the mercury allowance considered safe for adults. This memo, however, did not prompt the removal of thimerosal from vaccines. I think the supposed "removal" occurred around/after the time of the 2001 IOM Vaccine Safety Review (possibly a little earlier in 1999, although mercury-containing vaccines were never recalled). I don't know the details about that, but will post links regarding the Hilleman memo below. Aasa http://www.waterskraus.com/pdf/91%20Memo%20Warned%20of%20Mercury%20in%20Shots.pdf http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/05/02/08.php http://www.momsagainstmercury.org/merck.htm Marty Landman <marty@...> wrote: I'm trying to remember the original story of how thimerosal came to be - to some extent - removed from most of the childhood vaccines.Wasn't there a story about 8 years ago of how a top official with (CDC, IOM??) said they hadn't

bothered to add up the total exposure kids were getting from the revised vacc schedule? And then when they did take the time to add up all the mercury being injected they realized it was too much, hence the recommendation.Can anyone point me to some links, references for this? It's been a long time I know, and am unable to come up with anything on Google.Marty-- Autism Homeschooler's discussion listAutismHomeschool/Drupal Development Blog: http://drupal.face2interface.com/

[Guest guest]

A Feb. 2002 spot check found only 1.7 percent of pediatric vaccines on physicians shelves still contained thimerosal.Aasa <penas7ar@...> wrote: In 1991, a memo was written by (then) senior Merck Vice-President, Maurice Hilleman, to Dr. Gordon (then) head of Merck's vaccine division indicating that the amount of mercury that babies who received their shots on schedule was 87 times the mercury allowance considered safe for adults. This memo, however, did not prompt the removal of thimerosal from vaccines. I think the supposed

"removal" occurred around/after the time of the 2001 IOM Vaccine Safety Review (possibly a little earlier in 1999, although mercury-containing vaccines were never recalled). I don't know the details about that, but will post links regarding the Hilleman memo below. Aasa http://www.waterskraus.com/pdf/91%20Memo%20Warned%20of%20Mercury%20in%20Shots.pdf http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/05/02/08.php http://www.momsagainstmercury.org/merck.htm Marty Landman <martynewdiets> wrote: I'm trying to remember the original story of how thimerosal came to be - to some extent - removed from most of the childhood vaccines.Wasn't there a story about 8 years ago of how a top official with (CDC, IOM??) said they hadn't bothered to add up the total exposure kids were getting from the revised vacc schedule? And then when they did take the time to add up all the mercury being injected they realized it was too much, hence the recommendation.Can anyone point me to some links, references for this? It's been a long time I know, and am unable to come up with anything on Google.Marty-- Autism Homeschooler's discussion listAutismHomeschool/Drupal Development Blog: http://drupal.face2interface.com/

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[Guest guest]

Do you happen to have a reference for this? WHO allegedly performed

this " spot check " ? Were these Kaiser pediatricians and knew about the

" spot checks " ahead of time?

>

> A Feb. 2002 spot check found only 1.7 percent of pediatric vaccines

on physicians shelves still contained thimerosal.

[Guest guest]

It was a " convenience sample " done by the CDC... There is no

statistical basis for the number.

> >

> > A Feb. 2002 spot check found only 1.7 percent of pediatric vaccines

> on physicians shelves still contained thimerosal.

>

[Guest guest]

and with this you have to ask--who did the spot check, how many doctors were checked--I don't believe in this spot check for a minute.Pat Howregan <pathow73clp@...> wrote: A Feb. 2002 spot check found only 1.7 percent of pediatric vaccines on physicians shelves still contained thimerosal.Aasa <penas7arrogers> wrote: In 1991, a memo was written by (then) senior Merck Vice-President, Maurice

Hilleman, to Dr. Gordon (then) head of Merck's vaccine division indicating that the amount of mercury that babies who received their shots on schedule was 87 times the mercury allowance considered safe for adults. This memo, however, did not prompt the removal of thimerosal from vaccines. I think the supposed "removal" occurred around/after the time of the 2001 IOM Vaccine Safety Review (possibly a little earlier in 1999, although mercury-containing vaccines were never recalled). I don't know the details about that, but will post links regarding the Hilleman memo below. Aasa http://www.waterskraus.com/pdf/91%20Memo%20Warned%20of%20Mercury%20in%20Shots.pdf http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/05/02/08.php http://www.momsagainstmercury.org/merck.htm Marty Landman <martynewdiets> wrote: I'm trying to remember the original story of how thimerosal came to be - to some extent - removed from most of the childhood vaccines.Wasn't there a story about 8 years ago of how a top official with (CDC, IOM??) said they hadn't bothered to add up the total exposure kids were getting from the revised vacc schedule? And then when they did take the time to add up all the mercury being injected they realized it was too much, hence the recommendation.Can anyone point me to some

links, references for this? It's been a long time I know, and am unable to come up with anything on Google.Marty-- Autism Homeschooler's discussion listAutismHomeschool/Drupal Development Blog: http://drupal.face2interface.com/ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

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[Guest guest]

Skepticism is healthy, except when it's selective. Update on Thimerosal Issues Doctor Bernier updated the committee on the progress to provide a thimerosal-free vaccine supply in the U.S. When the I.O.M. committee took a different approach than that of the A.C.I.P., an ad hoc A.C.I.P. workgroup was formed in October 2000 drafted a recommendation to cease use of these vaccines by March 31, 2002. However, the changes in the D.T.a.P. supply delayed issuance of that statement, and the supply is still not normal. Since the Hep B and Hib supply is adequate, the A.C.I.P. may wish to pursue a different course for those. Mr. Dean Mason presented a chart of the thimerosal-containing vaccines/toxoids in the pediatric schedule and under the C.D.C. contract (not all of which are licensed in the U.S.). N.I.P. estimated the

amount of thimerosal in provider vaccine inventories in a survey conducted September 20, 2001 to February 20, 2002. The targets were a convenience sample of providers getting site visits from public health officials across the country. Inventory counts were done of all refrigerators for D.T.a.P., Hib, and hep B pediatric vaccines. The thimerosal classification was based on the lot number information, which was verified by the manufacturers. In September 2001, 225 sites were canvassed, and 447 by February 2002. The decline in thimerosal-containing vaccine went from 5.6 percent to 1.9%, from 33,500 doses out of 63,600; to 2,796 doses out of 149,147. These were delineated by D.T.a.P., D.T.P., Hib, hep B- Hib, and hep B. Hep B rose from 4.95 percent to 7.5%; the proportion that is pediatric (10 microgram) versus adolescent versus adult (5 microgram) still requires evaluation. However, the N.I.P. thinks that most of it is pediatric. During the visits, the providers were surveyed about thimerosal- containing vaccines in their inventories. Of the 447 interviews, 83.5 percent reported no thimerosal-containing vaccines in stock at any time since October 2001. Only 25.3% said they were aware of the "voluntary exchange programs" implemented by G.S.K. and Merck to replace the thimerosal-preservative vaccines with thimerosal-free ones. Only 2.9 percent had exchanged vaccines, with the following reasons given: unaware of the program, no thimerosal-containing vaccines in inventory; not worth the effort; will exchange after expiration.Maurine Meleck <maurine_meleck@...> wrote: and with this you have to ask--who did the spot check, how many doctors were checked--I don't believe in this spot check for a minute.Pat Howregan <pathow73clp > wrote: A Feb. 2002 spot check found only 1.7 percent of pediatric vaccines on physicians shelves still contained thimerosal.Aasa <penas7arrogers> wrote: In 1991, a memo was written by (then) senior Merck Vice-President, Maurice Hilleman, to Dr. Gordon (then) head of Merck's vaccine

division indicating that the amount of mercury that babies who received their shots on schedule was 87 times the mercury allowance considered safe for adults. This memo, however, did not prompt the removal of thimerosal from vaccines. I think the supposed "removal" occurred around/after the time of the 2001 IOM Vaccine Safety Review (possibly a little earlier in 1999, although mercury-containing vaccines were never recalled). I don't know the details about that, but will post links regarding the Hilleman memo below. Aasa http://www.waterskraus.com/pdf/91%20Memo%20Warned%20of%20Mercury%20in%20Shots.pdf http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/05/02/08.php http://www.momsagainstmercury.org/merck.htm Marty Landman <martynewdiets> wrote: I'm trying to remember the original story of how thimerosal came to be - to some extent - removed from most of the childhood vaccines.Wasn't there a story about 8 years ago of how a top official with (CDC, IOM??) said they hadn't bothered to add up the total exposure kids were getting from the revised vacc schedule? And then when they did take the time to add up all the mercury being injected they realized it was too much, hence the recommendation.Can anyone point me to some links, references for this? It's been a long time I know, and am unable to come up with anything on Google.Marty--

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[Guest guest]

Your reference text says nothing about 1.7%. Where did that number

come from?

> I'm trying to remember the original story of how thimerosal

came to

> be - to some extent - removed from most of the childhood vaccines.

>

> Wasn't there a story about 8 years ago of how a top official with

> (CDC, IOM??) said they hadn't bothered to add up the total

exposure

> kids were getting from the revised vacc schedule? And then when

they

> did take the time to add up all the mercury being injected they

> realized it was too much, hence the recommendation.

>

> Can anyone point me to some links, references for this? It's been

a

> long time I know, and am unable to come up with anything on Google.

>

> Marty

>

> --

> Autism Homeschooler's discussion list

> AutismHomeschool/

> Drupal Development Blog: http://drupal.face2interface.com/

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Do the doctors even know how to read the labels? Hooker <brian@...> wrote: Your reference text says nothing about 1.7%. Where did that number come from?> I'm trying to remember the original story of how thimerosal came to > be - to some extent - removed from most of the childhood vaccines.> > Wasn't there a story about 8 years ago of how a top official with > (CDC, IOM??) said they hadn't bothered to add up the total exposure > kids were getting from the revised vacc schedule? And then when they > did take the time to add up all the mercury being

injected they > realized it was too much, hence the recommendation.> > Can anyone point me to some links, references for this? It's been a > long time I know, and am unable to come up with anything on Google.> > Marty> > -- > Autism Homeschooler's discussion list> AutismHomeschool/> Drupal Development Blog: http://drupal.face2interface.com/ > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. >

> > > > ---------------------------------> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.>

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[Guest guest]

--Maureen if doctors knew how to read labels they would have seen the

skull and cross bones on the side of thimerosal.-

In EOHarm , Maurine Meleck <maurine_meleck@...> wrote:

>

> Do the doctors even know how to read the labels?

>

> Hooker <brian@...> wrote: Your reference text says

nothing about 1.7%. Where did that number

> come from?

>

>

> > I'm trying to remember the original story of how thimerosal

> came to

> > be - to some extent - removed from most of the childhood vaccines.

> >

> > Wasn't there a story about 8 years ago of how a top official with

> > (CDC, IOM??) said they hadn't bothered to add up the total

> exposure

> > kids were getting from the revised vacc schedule? And then when

> they

> > did take the time to add up all the mercury being injected they

> > realized it was too much, hence the recommendation.

> >

> > Can anyone point me to some links, references for this? It's been

> a

> > long time I know, and am unable to come up with anything on

Google.

> >

> > Marty

> >

> > --

> > Autism Homeschooler's discussion list

> > AutismHomeschool/

> > Drupal Development Blog: http://drupal.face2interface.com/

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with

> Search.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with

> Mobile. Try it now.

> >

>

>

>

>

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Try it now.

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[Guest guest]

-Pat I'd like to see this can you post the source? Did you get this

info from a planet like wrong planet or from the planet mercury?-

- In EOHarm , Pat Howregan <pathow73clp@...> wrote:

>

> A Feb. 2002 spot check found only 1.7 percent of pediatric vaccines

on physicians shelves still contained thimerosal.

>

> Aasa <penas7ar@...> wrote:

> In 1991, a memo was written by (then) senior Merck Vice-President,

Maurice Hilleman, to Dr. Gordon (then) head of Merck's

vaccine division indicating that the amount of mercury that babies

who received their shots on schedule was 87 times the mercury

allowance considered safe for adults. This memo, however, did not

prompt the removal of thimerosal from vaccines. I think the

supposed " removal " occurred around/after the time of the 2001 IOM

Vaccine Safety Review (possibly a little earlier in 1999, although

mercury-containing vaccines were never recalled). I don't know the

details about that, but will post links regarding the Hilleman memo

below. Aasa

>

> http://www.waterskraus.com/pdf/91%20Memo%20Warned%20of%20Mercury%

20in%20Shots.pdf

>

> http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/05/02/08.php

>

> http://www.momsagainstmercury.org/merck.htm

>

>

>

> Marty Landman <marty@...> wrote:

> I'm trying to remember the original story of how thimerosal

came to

> be - to some extent - removed from most of the childhood vaccines.

>

> Wasn't there a story about 8 years ago of how a top official with

> (CDC, IOM??) said they hadn't bothered to add up the total

exposure

> kids were getting from the revised vacc schedule? And then when

they

> did take the time to add up all the mercury being injected they

> realized it was too much, hence the recommendation.

>

> Can anyone point me to some links, references for this? It's been a

> long time I know, and am unable to come up with anything on Google.

>

> Marty

>

> --

> Autism Homeschooler's discussion list

> AutismHomeschool/

> Drupal Development Blog: http://drupal.face2interface.com/

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with

Search.

>

[Guest guest]

Pat,

I could find no previous postings submitted by you on this board or

the internet. I find it odd that you are apparently pro-mercury and

on this board.

I also could find no one in the USA with a last name of Howregan.

Do you work for the CDC or Pharma?

I hope you are not on this board trying to antagonize parents of

mercury damaged children with propaganda!!!!!!

> I'm trying to remember the original story of how thimerosal

came to

> be - to some extent - removed from most of the childhood vaccines.

>

> Wasn't there a story about 8 years ago of how a top official with

> (CDC, IOM??) said they hadn't bothered to add up the total exposure

> kids were getting from the revised vacc schedule? And then when

they

> did take the time to add up all the mercury being injected they

> realized it was too much, hence the recommendation.

>

> Can anyone point me to some links, references for this? It's been

a

> long time I know, and am unable to come up with anything on Google.

>

> Marty

>

> --

> Autism Homeschooler's discussion list

> AutismHomeschool/

> Drupal Development Blog: http://drupal.face2interface.com/

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with

Search.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile.

Try it now.

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Aasa. I'd thought that the numbers weren't added up until

'99 supposedly, but according to that LA Times article Dr. Hilleman

did the arithmetic back in '91 - just in time to prevent disaster.

He was apparently ignored and the rest is history it would seem.

I had been wondering if the first medical establishment member to talk

about the danger of mercury in the expanded vaccine schedule of 1991

was forced out of his job. But even if Dr. Hilleman had left Merck

shortly after writing the '91 memo he would have been 71 or 72 at the

time, so it'd mean nothing. I guess.

I'd like to comment on the rest of this thread which have just read.

What strikes me is the level of stark cynicism towards the medical

profession demonstrated by many of the posters. Not sure I disagree,

and not to enshrine Hilleman in any way -- it's nonetheless a nice

feeling related to the way I was taught my whole life to think about

doctors to see that the guy seemed to try to do the right thing.

What happened for the next 8 years behind the scenes would be

interesting to get some info on. Anyone know how to fill in any of the

blanks?

For instance, what happened between 91 and 99 to change things? Other

than an epidemic of autism - a genetic disorder - which according to

the greatest medical minds of our time isn't even a true increase but

rather explained by improved diagnosis and expanded diagnostic criteria?

Uchh.

Marty

> I'm trying to remember the original story of how

thimerosal came to

> be - to some extent - removed from most of the childhood vaccines.

>

> Wasn't there a story about 8 years ago of how a top official with

> (CDC, IOM??) said they hadn't bothered to add up the total exposure

> kids were getting from the revised vacc schedule? And then when they

> did take the time to add up all the mercury being injected they

> realized it was too much, hence the recommendation.

>

> Can anyone point me to some links, references for this? It's been a

> long time I know, and am unable to come up with anything on Google.

>

> Marty

>

> --

> Autism Homeschooler's discussion list

> AutismHomeschool/

> Drupal Development Blog: http://drupal.face2interface.com/

>

[Guest guest]

Or the planet Hancock, NH ? ;-)sammysouthie <sammysouthie@...> wrote: -Pat I'd like to see this can you post the source? Did you get this info from a planet like wrong planet or from the planet mercury?- - In EOHarm , Pat Howregan <pathow73clp@...> wrote: > > A Feb. 2002 spot check found only 1.7 percent of pediatric vaccines on physicians shelves still contained thimerosal. > > Aasa <penas7ar@...> wrote: > In 1991, a memo was written by (then) senior Merck Vice-President, Maurice Hilleman, to Dr. Gordon (then) head of Merck's vaccine division indicating that the amount of mercury that babies who received their shots on schedule was 87 times the mercury allowance considered safe for adults. This memo, however, did not prompt the removal of thimerosal from vaccines. I think the supposed "removal" occurred around/after the time of the 2001 IOM Vaccine Safety Review (possibly a little earlier in 1999, although mercury-containing vaccines were never recalled). I don't know the details about that, but will post links regarding the Hilleman memo below. Aasa > > http://www.waterskraus.com/pdf/91%20Memo%20Warned%20of%20Mercury% 20in%20Shots.pdf > > http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/05/02/08.php > > http://www.momsagainstmercury.org/merck.htm > > > > Marty Landman <marty@...> wrote: > I'm trying to remember the original story of how thimerosal came to > be - to some extent - removed from most of the childhood vaccines. > > Wasn't there a story about 8 years ago of how a top official with > (CDC, IOM??) said they hadn't bothered to add up the total exposure > kids were getting from the revised vacc schedule? And then when they > did take the time to add up all the mercury being injected they > realized it was too much, hence the recommendation. > > Can anyone point me to some links, references for this? It's been a >

long time I know, and am unable to come up with anything on Google. > > Marty > > -- > Autism Homeschooler's discussion list > AutismHomeschool/ > Drupal Development Blog: http://drupal.face2interface.com/ > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. >

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

My bad - it was 1.9% . I was trying to recall from memory when I wrote the first email.The point is, children born after 2001 were far less likely to receive TCVs than children born before 2001. sammysouthie <sammysouthie@...> wrote: --Maureen if doctors knew how to read labels they would have seen the skull and cross bones on the side of thimerosal.- In EOHarm , Maurine Meleck <maurine_meleck@...> wrote: > > Do the doctors

even know how to read the labels? > > Hooker <brian@...> wrote: Your reference text says nothing about 1.7%. Where did that number > come from? > > > > I'm trying to remember the original story of how thimerosal > came to > > be - to some extent - removed from most of the childhood vaccines. > > > > Wasn't there a story about 8 years ago of how a top official with > > (CDC, IOM??) said they hadn't bothered to add up the total > exposure > > kids were getting from the

revised vacc schedule? And then when > they > > did take the time to add up all the mercury being injected they > > realized it was too much, hence the recommendation. > > > > Can anyone point me to some links, references for this? It's been > a > > long time I know, and am unable to come up with anything on Google. > > > > Marty > > > > -- > > Autism Homeschooler's discussion list > > AutismHomeschool/ > > Drupal Development Blog: http://drupal.face2interface.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > >

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > Search. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > Mobile. Try it now. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. >

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[Guest guest]

I have a couple questions...

The CDC apparently " estimated " the the vaccine stocks

Pharma had in inventory which still contained

thimerosal. Bear in mind, these companies have been

loath to disclose ANY information about their products

under proprietary concerns, including lot sizes,

production time and distribution means, but the doctor

was still able to guess how many jabs were left

without any of the true information that would be

needed.

Then, they sample a couple hundred sites and the

people there say that thimerosal containing vaccines

have declined from 5.6% to 1.9%, based upon the lot

information the doctor supplied them.

I recall watching the Burton hearings in 99 and 00, in

which a spokeswoman from the FDA stated that

thimerosal could not be immediately phased out because

the process to make the vaccines took longer than a

year, the companies had already started on the lots to

be produced for use in 01, and it would not be

feasable to reformulate until the production lots

started in 01 for use in 02-03 without jeopardizing

the vaccination program.

So my questions are:

Why should we believe this survey which doesn't seem

to name any names for verification and apparently did

not require independant testing of blind samples to

confirm what industry said

and

How were Pharma able to pull off the switch when we

were clearly told it could not be done by 01?

Why am I reminded about a scene from the movie " My

Cousin Vinnie " ?

________________________________________________________________________________\

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[Guest guest]

The CDC was not counting vaccines that "Pharma" had in inventory. Researchers were counting vaccines that physicians kept in their own clinics. It wasn't necessary to "guess" how many jabs were left.Hope that clears things up.Dad Fourkids <dad_4_kids@...> wrote: I have a couple questions... The CDC apparently "estimated" the the vaccine stocks Pharma had in inventory which still contained thimerosal. Bear in mind, these companies have been loath to disclose ANY information about their products under proprietary concerns,

including lot sizes, production time and distribution means, but the doctor was still able to guess how many jabs were left without any of the true information that would be needed. Then, they sample a couple hundred sites and the people there say that thimerosal containing vaccines have declined from 5.6% to 1.9%, based upon the lot information the doctor supplied them. I recall watching the Burton hearings in 99 and 00, in which a spokeswoman from the FDA stated that thimerosal could not be immediately phased out because the process to make the vaccines took longer than a year, the companies had already started on the lots to be produced for use in 01, and it would not be feasable to reformulate until the production lots started in 01 for use in 02-03 without jeopardizing the vaccination program. So my questions are: Why should we believe this survey which doesn't seem to

name any names for verification and apparently did not require independant testing of blind samples to confirm what industry said and How were Pharma able to pull off the switch when we were clearly told it could not be done by 01? Why am I reminded about a scene from the movie "My Cousin Vinnie"? __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

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[Guest guest]

Based on a figure that has no statistical significance (re:

definition of a " convenience sample " ).

> > > I'm trying to remember the original story of how thimerosal

> > came to

> > > be - to some extent - removed from most of the childhood

vaccines.

> > >

> > > Wasn't there a story about 8 years ago of how a top official

with

> > > (CDC, IOM??) said they hadn't bothered to add up the total

> > exposure

> > > kids were getting from the revised vacc schedule? And then

when

> > they

> > > did take the time to add up all the mercury being injected

they

> > > realized it was too much, hence the recommendation.

> > >

> > > Can anyone point me to some links, references for this? It's

been

> > a

> > > long time I know, and am unable to come up with anything on

> Google.

> > >

> > > Marty

> > >

> > > --

> > > Autism Homeschooler's discussion list

> > > AutismHomeschool/

> > > Drupal Development Blog: http://drupal.face2interface.com/

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with

> > Search.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with

> > Mobile. Try it now.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

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[Guest guest]

You're welcome Marty, but don't "enshrine" Hilleman just yet. I don't suppose that you have seen the video Leonard Horowitz put together, where a Toronto professor, Dr. Shorter is interviewing Maurice Hilleman about the SV-40 virus turning up in some polio vaccines in the mid 1950-60's. The video is heavily edited, but that interview did occur, according to Dr. Shorter (I emailed him to verify) and my sister's sister-in-law, who happened to be working as a research assistant for Dr. Shorter in the 1980's. I'll post a link below, to a few excerpts from "The Health Century" which Dr. Shorter wrote, based on his many interviews with industry representatives and government researchers, etc. , at the JABS Forum, was able upload a copy of some extracts from "The Health Century" which I sent him earlier this month. Included in these extracts are Shorter's interviews with Bernice Eddy and Maurice Hilleman.

Aasa [book extract. The Health Century] http://www.whale. to/v/eddy. html the video (Part 14 of 16 of "In Lies We Trust"): http://youtube.com/watch?v=5tM8gk8C69M Aasa (P.S., It seems that even in the middle of the last century, some scientists had discovered problems with the polio vaccine, or at least some lots of it, but none of that was recalled either, until after many had been harmed by it.) Marty Landman <marty@...> wrote: Thank you Aasa. I'd thought that the numbers weren't added up until'99 supposedly, but according to that LA Times article Dr. Hillemandid the arithmetic back in '91 - just in time to prevent disaster.He was apparently ignored and the rest is history it would seem.I had been wondering if the first medical establishment member to talkabout the danger of mercury in the expanded vaccine schedule of 1991was forced out of his job. But even if Dr. Hilleman

had left Merckshortly after writing the '91 memo he would have been 71 or 72 at thetime, so it'd mean nothing. I guess.I'd like to comment on the rest of this thread which have just read.What strikes me is the level of stark cynicism towards the medicalprofession demonstrated by many of the posters. Not sure I disagree,and not to enshrine Hilleman in any way -- it's nonetheless a nicefeeling related to the way I was taught my whole life to think aboutdoctors to see that the guy seemed to try to do the right thing.What happened for the next 8 years behind the scenes would beinteresting to get some info on. Anyone know how to fill in any of theblanks? For instance, what happened between 91 and 99 to change things? Otherthan an epidemic of autism - a genetic disorder - which according tothe greatest medical minds of our time isn't even a true increase butrather explained by improved diagnosis and expanded

diagnostic criteria?Uchh.Marty> I'm trying to remember the original story of howthimerosal came to > be - to some extent - removed from most of the childhood vaccines.> > Wasn't there a story about 8 years ago of how a top official with > (CDC, IOM??) said they hadn't bothered to add up the total exposure > kids were getting from the revised vacc schedule? And then when they > did take the time to add up all the

mercury being injected they > realized it was too much, hence the recommendation.> > Can anyone point me to some links, references for this? It's been a > long time I know, and am unable to come up with anything on Google.> > Marty> > -- > Autism Homeschooler's discussion list> AutismHomeschool/> Drupal Development Blog: http://drupal.face2interface.com/>

[Guest guest]

Gee Pat, did you actually read this report?

First, the surveyors apparently only looked at selected

vaccines, DT-P, DTaP Hep B, and Hib--that is most, but

not all, of the vaccine types that contain(ed) thimerosal.

So that right there indicates that this report does not

reflect the total percent of thimerosal containing vaccines

in doctor's offices as of Feb 2002, even IF the reported

numbers are accurate. You can bet the numbers would

have been very different if they had included the flu

vaccines in their count, for example.

Secondly, it is from a " convenience sample " of doctor's

offices-not a random sample--which means that it

very likely includes some sort of selection bias because Health

Dept inspections of " provider " offices are very likely not

done on a random basis.

Do we know if these were mainly public health centers,

private practice pediatricians, HMO's, family

practitioners, in urban or rural, high income or low income

areas? Or how the actual breakdown of the sample compares

to reality? It would be very easy to get an inaccurate estimate

as an intentional or unintentional result of surveying

a biased sample. Exactly what was the " population " sampled?

Then, the report states:

>The thimerosal classification was based on the lot number

> information, which was verified by the manufacturers.

While we would all like to trust the manufacturers, we

don't. There needs to be independent testing to confirm

that the mfr are reporting the truth. Given the multiple

cases of disingenous reporting of drug safety to gain

FDA approvals, and the huge liability to pharma if the

thimerosal were proven to be causative of autism, there

is little reason to trust mfr reporting as accurate.

Next, the report states:

The decline in thimerosal-containing vaccine went from 5.6

> percent to 1.9%, from 33,500 doses out of 63,600; to 2,796 doses out

> of 149,147.

Okay, now my math might be a little rusty, but 33,500/63,600

is more like 56 percent--ten times what the text states was

calculated. Gee, just a decimal place off. Certainly doesn't

inspire my confidence in any of the numbers. Did they just

accidentally leave off or add a decimal place or a number

somewhere in the second count? Who knows?

Then, the last paragraph:

During the visits, the providers were surveyed about thimerosal-

> containing vaccines in their inventories. Of the 447 interviews, 83.5

> percent reported no thimerosal-containing vaccines in stock at any

> time since October 2001.

How many doctors reported there was ever thimerosal in any

vaccines they ever used? (Obviously they didn't ask that.)

I'd bet a good percentage never realized it was in

any of the vaccines on their shelves ever.

Secondly, how many who did know were telling the truth?

Many parents report being told that their doctor was going

to administer a thimerosal-free shot, only to find that when

they examined the packaging, this was not accurate. My sil

expressed concern about thimerosal to her ped in 2005. She

was told all the thimerosal from all vaccines was gone and

had been removed for at least 10 years. Yeah, right. How

can anyone trust anything doctors say when so many of us find

many are either very poorly informed, or lying through their teeth?

Then the article goes on to say:

> Only 25.3% said they were aware of

> the " voluntary exchange programs " implemented by G.S.K. and Merck to

> replace the thimerosal-preservative vaccines with thimerosal-free

> ones. Only 2.9 percent had exchanged vaccines, with the following

> reasons given: unaware of the program, no thimerosal-containing

> vaccines in inventory; not worth the effort; will exchange after

> expiration.

So only a fourth of the doctors knew that they could

exchange the vaccines, and less than 3 percent had

done so (if the percentage calculations are even right here--

maybe it was 2.5 percent and 0.3 percent)? That means

that of whatever stock of these vaccines with thimerosal

was on the shelves post-1999, up to 97% were

administered rather than exchanged (we can perhaps

hope some were tossed out due to expiration dates, so

the percentage actually administered might be a bit lower).

Sadly, CDC has lost my trust. They did not err on the

side of caution as they should have when this problem

came to light. The more they wave around their

epidemiological studies and outdated, inaccurate info

about the " safe " form of mercury from thimerosal,

and chant that it has all been removed when it hasn't,

the more ridiculously inept they appear, and the less

anyone should trust any study they do or anything

they say. If this is the best study they can present,

then they need some better trained scientists.

Sue

> I'm trying to remember the original story of how thimerosal came to

> be - to some extent - removed from most of the childhood vaccines.

>

> Wasn't there a story about 8 years ago of how a top official with

> (CDC, IOM??) said they hadn't bothered to add up the total exposure

> kids were getting from the revised vacc schedule? And then when they

> did take the time to add up all the mercury being injected they

> realized it was too much, hence the recommendation.

>

> Can anyone point me to some links, references for this? It's been a

> long time I know, and am unable to come up with anything on Google.

>

> Marty

>

> --

> Autism Homeschooler's discussion list

> AutismHomeschool/

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[Guest guest]

Pat Howregan and all,

I'm sure you have heard of the " SHELL GAME. "

You know, misdirection to get the " mark " to

look where you want him to while the " pea "

is moved somewhere else.

In the " Thimerosal Shell Game, " in 2002, the

CDC moved the pea to the Thimerosal-preserved

flu shot by recommending it be given to: a)

pregnant women (where the toxic effects are

much higher) and babies 6 to 23 months of

age (where the toxic effects are similar to

what they were before), WHILE:

1. LOUDLY CLAIMING that the STOCKS of certain

" Thimerosal-preserved childhood vaccines "

had been " greatly reduced " AND

2. IGNORING the fact that NO safety studies

had PROVED the " reduced Thimerosal " vaccines

(that were replacing the Thimerosal-preserved

ones) were SAFE.

Now that we ALL understand this SHELL GAME,

hopefully, you will stop, under the GUISE of

" Skepticism is healthy, " trying to direct our

attention AWAY from:

1. The PROVEN-FALSE 1999 PROMISE that Thimerosal

would be removed from ALL vaccines as soon as

possible, and

2. The factual reality that Thimerosal-preserved

vaccines are STILL being approved, and injected

into pregnant women and children in America

TODAY!

FACTUALLY, THIMEROSAL HAS NOT BEEN REMOVED FROM ALL

VACCINES GIVEN TO CHILDREN FROM CONCEPTION ONWARDS!

Hopefully, with this response, you and your fellow

lurkers will see that your posts appear to indicate

that you are simply " pitch men " and/or " front men "

for those who are running this " racket, " the

" Thimerosal Shell Game " RACKET.

Regards,

Dr. King

http;//www.dr-king.com

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

At 12:16 1/22/08 -0800, Pat Howregan wrote:

>

>Skepticism is healthy, except when it's selective.

>

> Update on Thimerosal Issues

>

> Doctor Bernier updated the committee on the progress to provide

> a thimerosal-free vaccine supply in the U.S. When the I.O.M.

> committee took a different approach than that of the A.C.I.P., an ad

> hoc A.C.I.P. workgroup was formed in October 2000 drafted a

> recommendation to cease use of these vaccines by March 31, 2002.

>

> However, the changes in the D.T.a.P. supply delayed issuance of that

> statement, and the supply is still not normal. Since the Hep B and

> Hib supply is adequate, the A.C.I.P. may wish to pursue a different

> course for those.

>

> Mr. Dean Mason presented a chart of the thimerosal-containing

> vaccines/toxoids in the pediatric schedule and under the C.D.C.

> contract (not all of which are licensed in the U.S.). N.I.P.

> estimated the amount of thimerosal in provider vaccine inventories in

> a survey conducted September 20, 2001 to February 20, 2002. The

> targets were a convenience sample of providers getting site visits

> from public health officials across the country. Inventory counts

> were done of all refrigerators for D.T.a.P., Hib, and hep B pediatric

> vaccines. The thimerosal classification was based on the lot number

> information, which was verified by the manufacturers.

>

> In September 2001, 225 sites were canvassed, and 447 by February

> 2002. The decline in thimerosal-containing vaccine went from 5.6

> percent to 1.9%, from 33,500 doses out of 63,600; to 2,796 doses out

> of 149,147. These were delineated by D.T.a.P., D.T.P., Hib, hep B-

> Hib, and hep B. Hep B rose from 4.95 percent to 7.5%; the proportion

> that is pediatric (10 microgram) versus adolescent versus adult (5

> microgram) still requires evaluation. However, the N.I.P. thinks that

> most of it is pediatric.

>

> During the visits, the providers were surveyed about thimerosal-

> containing vaccines in their inventories. Of the 447 interviews, 83.5

> percent reported no thimerosal-containing vaccines in stock at any

> time since October 2001. Only 25.3% said they were aware of

> the " voluntary exchange programs " implemented by G.S.K. and Merck to

> replace the thimerosal-preservative vaccines with thimerosal-free

> ones. Only 2.9 percent had exchanged vaccines, with the following

> reasons given: unaware of the program, no thimerosal-containing

> vaccines in inventory; not worth the effort; will exchange after

> expiration.

>

>>Maurine Meleck <maurine_meleck@...> wrote:

>>

>>and with this you have to ask--who did the

>>spot check, how many doctors were checked--

>>I don't believe in this spot check for a minute.

>>

>>Pat Howregan <pathow73clp@...> wrote:

>>>

>>>A Feb. 2002 spot check found only 1.7 percent

>>>of pediatric vaccines on physicians shelves

>>>still contained thimerosal.

>>>

>>> <<SNIP>>

[Guest guest]

Not only does that NOT clear things up, it actually

makes it LESS credible.

The lady from the FDA clearly told Burton's comittee

in 00 that thimerosal could NOT be phased out

immediately because it would take time to reformulate

and the earliest lots that could be done were those

started in 01. I find it astounding that anyone could

believe that physicians had reformulated products in

their pantries at least 1 full year before their

manufacture could begin.

Which alphabet org. do you work for Pat? Or is it

GSK, Merck or Lilly?

Re: thimerosal removal info wanted

Posted by: " Pat Howregan " pathow73clp@...

pathow73clp

Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:22 pm (PST)

The CDC was not counting vaccines that " Pharma " had in

inventory. Researchers were counting vaccines that

physicians kept in their own clinics. It wasn't

necessary to " guess " how many jabs were left.

Hope that clears things up.

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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[Guest guest]

Say Dr. King, you seem to be extremely knowledible and well versed

in pediatric neurology. Any reason why you haven't offered yourself

up as an expert witness for our side? You couldn't possibly do any

worse than Geier.

> >>>

> >>>A Feb. 2002 spot check found only 1.7 percent

> >>>of pediatric vaccines on physicians shelves

> >>>still contained thimerosal.

> >>>

> >>> <<SNIP>>

>

[Guest guest]

Dr. King, can you explain why the CDDC numbers haven't gone down?helena_batts <helena_batts@...> wrote: Say Dr. King, you seem to be extremely knowledible and well versed in pediatric neurology. Any reason why you haven't offered yourself up as an expert witness for our side? You couldn't possibly do any worse than Geier. > >>> > >>>A Feb. 2002 spot check found only 1.7 percent > >>>of pediatric vaccines on physicians shelves > >>>still contained thimerosal. > >>> >

>>> <<SNIP>> >

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[Guest guest]

If thimerosal-free pediatric vaccines were manufactured in 2001, as you say, then why is it improbable that less than 2 percent vaccines on doctors' shelves in Feb. 2002 still contained thimerosal? Dad Fourkids <dad_4_kids@...> wrote: Not only does that NOT clear things up, it actually makes it LESS credible. The lady from the FDA clearly told Burton's comittee in 00 that thimerosal could NOT be phased out immediately because it would take time to reformulate and the earliest lots that could be done were those

started in 01. I find it astounding that anyone could believe that physicians had reformulated products in their pantries at least 1 full year before their manufacture could begin. Which alphabet org. do you work for Pat? Or is it GSK, Merck or Lilly? Re: thimerosal removal info wanted Posted by: "Pat Howregan" pathow73clp pathow73clp Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:22 pm (PST) The CDC was not counting vaccines that "Pharma" had in inventory. Researchers were counting vaccines that physicians kept in their own clinics. It wasn't necessary to "guess" how many jabs were left. Hope that clears things up. __________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

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[Guest guest]

I'm not Dr. King, but sarcasm will get you no where on this listservehelena_batts <helena_batts@...> wrote: Say Dr. King, you seem to be extremely knowledible and well versed in pediatric neurology. Any reason why you haven't offered yourself up as an expert witness for our side? You couldn't possibly do any worse than Geier. > >>> > >>>A Feb. 2002 spot check found only 1.7 percent > >>>of pediatric vaccines on physicians shelves > >>>still contained thimerosal.> >>>> >>> <<SNIP>>>

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