Re: THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!!!!!!!-Pat

January 23, 2008

No fear here, Pat. I am simply questioning your motives. The people

on this list are too intelligent and well-read to fall for some of

the disingenious " points " you've tried to make. Why don't you just be

clear and honest? Who are you and what are you doing here? Do you

have an affected child? What is your profession?

> >

> > Whoa! Don't kill the messenger. I'm just telling you what Geier

told

> a judge in 2004. If there are plenty of studies as you suggest,

then

> why didn't Geier cite them?

> >

> > My point is that there's not much that a judge can do during

Daubert

> when an expert witness folds like Geier did.

> >

>

> ---------------------------------

> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile.

Try it now.

>

January 23, 2008

Pataphobia - Fear of Pat...

Take two DMPS and call me in the morning.

> > >

> > > Whoa! Don't kill the messenger. I'm just telling you what

Geier

> told

> > a judge in 2004. If there are plenty of studies as you suggest,

> then

> > why didn't Geier cite them?

> > >

> > > My point is that there's not much that a judge can do during

> Daubert

> > when an expert witness folds like Geier did.

> > >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with

Mobile.

> Try it now.

> >

>

January 23, 2008

I have a child with autism. I do not work for "Big Pharma" Hooker <brian@...> wrote: Pataphobia - Fear of Pat... Take two DMPS and call me in the morning. > > > > > > Whoa! Don't kill the messenger. I'm just telling you what Geier > told > > a judge in 2004. If there are plenty of studies as you suggest, > then > > why didn't Geier cite them? > > > > > > My point is that there's not much that a judge can do during > Daubert > > when an expert witness folds like Geier did. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. > Try it now. >

> >

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

January 23, 2008

- is that pat from Saturday night live[Pat Pat what is that?]

-- In EOHarm , " Hooker " <brian@...> wrote:

>

> Pataphobia - Fear of Pat...

>

> Take two DMPS and call me in the morning.

>

> > > >

> > > > Whoa! Don't kill the messenger. I'm just telling you what

> Geier

> > told

> > > a judge in 2004. If there are plenty of studies as you

suggest,

> > then

> > > why didn't Geier cite them?

> > > >

> > > > My point is that there's not much that a judge can do during

> > Daubert

> > > when an expert witness folds like Geier did.

> > > >

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with

> Mobile.

> > Try it now.

> > >

> >

>

January 23, 2008

I love Pat (from SNL). Did anyone ever find out Pat's gender

identity? I lost track of SNL in the late 90's...

> > > > >

> > > > > Whoa! Don't kill the messenger. I'm just telling you what

> > Geier

> > > told

> > > > a judge in 2004. If there are plenty of studies as you

> suggest,

> > > then

> > > > why didn't Geier cite them?

> > > > >

> > > > > My point is that there's not much that a judge can do

during

> > > Daubert

> > > > when an expert witness folds like Geier did.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > ---------------------------------

> > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with

> > Mobile.

> > > Try it now.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

January 24, 2008

You have my utmost respect - it can be very tough to raise a child

with autism...

> > > >

> > > > Whoa! Don't kill the messenger. I'm just telling you what

> Geier

> > told

> > > a judge in 2004. If there are plenty of studies as you

suggest,

> > then

> > > why didn't Geier cite them?

> > > >

> > > > My point is that there's not much that a judge can do

during

> > Daubert

> > > when an expert witness folds like Geier did.

> > > >

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with

> Mobile.

> > Try it now.

> > >

> >

>

> ---------------------------------

> Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

>

January 24, 2008

I don't know what this is about, but this is pretty funny. Needed

a good laugh today. Thanks and thanks Pat whoever you are.

> >

> > Hooker <brian@> wrote:

> Pataphobia - Fear of Pat...

> >

> > Take two DMPS and call me in the morning.

> >

>

January 24, 2008

Thanks. I like to tell myself from time to time that

it's a challenge to raise any child. I know I gave my

parents plenty of grief. I think lots of us parents

lose that perspective. Most of the concern we have

about our ASD kids are felt of parents of NTs as well.

Every parent is worried about their kid's choice of

career, if they'll go to college, will they be happy

and productive. I'm sure that and Barbra Bush

were plenty concerned about young 's future, and

look how he turned out!

OK, bad example, but you get my point. I think we can

all do ourselves a favor and try to be more positive

about the challenge that's been handed each of us.

Complaining about the media or the drug companies

doesn't put food on the table, and it does nothing to

assure the kind of future we want for our children.

--- Hooker <brian@...> wrote:

> You have my utmost respect - it can be very tough to

> raise a child

> with autism...

>

> > > > >

> > > > > Whoa! Don't kill the messenger. I'm just

> telling you what

> > Geier

> > > told

> > > > a judge in 2004. If there are plenty of

> studies as you

> suggest,

> > > then

> > > > why didn't Geier cite them?

> > > > >

> > > > > My point is that there's not much that a

> judge can do

> during

> > > Daubert

> > > > when an expert witness folds like Geier did.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > ---------------------------------

> > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and

> know-it-all with

> > Mobile.

> > > Try it now.

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

> >

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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January 24, 2008

Do you do any biomedical treatments? I know your position on

thimerosal but there is merit to biomed regardless where you stand

on that issue...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Whoa! Don't kill the messenger. I'm just

> > telling you what

> > > Geier

> > > > told

> > > > > a judge in 2004. If there are plenty of

> > studies as you

> > suggest,

> > > > then

> > > > > why didn't Geier cite them?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My point is that there's not much that a

> > judge can do

> > during

> > > > Daubert

> > > > > when an expert witness folds like Geier did.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ---------------------------------

> > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and

> > know-it-all with

> > > Mobile.

> > > > Try it now.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

> > >

> >

>

_____________________________________________________________________

_______________

> Looking for last minute shopping deals?

> Find them fast with Search.

http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?

category=shopping

>

January 24, 2008

complaining about the media and the drug companies, and complaining to

the media about the drug companies and trying to make it so that no

other parents have to lose their child to non-verbal screaming diharea

land is kinda what this group is all about. trying to figure out what

this nightmare is being caused by and making it stop! i find that

anyone who is spending their time here trying to change anyone's mind

about what happened to their child is pretty pointless. i mean, i've

got the paper that says my kid is mercury poisoned and he gets more

and more able to deal with the " real " world as i get it out of his

system. in McCarthy's words, my son is my science. i mean, my

time is spent going where i can get answers, not try to tell everyone

what the answers aren't. who's got time for that? oh yeah, pat does.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Whoa! Don't kill the messenger. I'm just

> > telling you what

> > > Geier

> > > > told

> > > > > a judge in 2004. If there are plenty of

> > studies as you

> > suggest,

> > > > then

> > > > > why didn't Geier cite them?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My point is that there's not much that a

> > judge can do

> > during

> > > > Daubert

> > > > > when an expert witness folds like Geier did.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ---------------------------------

> > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and

> > know-it-all with

> > > Mobile.

> > > > Try it now.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

> > >

> >

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

> Looking for last minute shopping deals?

> Find them fast with Search.

http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

>

January 24, 2008

Pat Howregan wrote:

> Most of the concern we have

> about our ASD kids are felt of parents of NTs as well.

>

Really? Fascinating.

How many parents of NTs do you know who have concerns about whether or

not their children will be institutionalized, live independently, hold a

conversation, or ever participate in meaningful social relationships?

- Will

January 24, 2008

How many parents of NT kids have to explain to their ten year old that

a turd is not a toy?

> > Most of the concern we have

> > about our ASD kids are felt of parents of NTs as well.

> >

> Really? Fascinating.

>

> How many parents of NTs do you know who have concerns about whether

or

> not their children will be institutionalized, live independently,

hold a

> conversation, or ever participate in meaningful social relationships?

>

> - Will

>

January 24, 2008

Snort. Is anyone else puking sick of that anti-activist, culty pseudo-

positive thinking tripe?

Other historical examples of " negative thinking " we should all aspire

to:

Civil rights bus boycott

The suffragist movement

The French Resistance

Warsaw ghetto uprising

Ralph Nader demanding seat belts in cars

Biko's antiapartheid movement

Watergate investigation

Brockovich (tsk, potty mouth)

Al Gore movie

Greenpeace

Felling of the Berlin wall

I could (and frequently do) go on...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Whoa! Don't kill the messenger. I'm just

> > telling you what

> > > Geier

> > > > told

> > > > > a judge in 2004. If there are plenty of

> > studies as you

> > suggest,

> > > > then

> > > > > why didn't Geier cite them?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My point is that there's not much that a

> > judge can do

> > during

> > > > Daubert

> > > > > when an expert witness folds like Geier did.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ---------------------------------

> > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and

> > know-it-all with

> > > Mobile.

> > > > Try it now.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

> > >

> >

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________

> Looking for last minute shopping deals?

> Find them fast with Search.

http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

>

January 25, 2008

> Other historical examples of " negative thinking " we should all aspire

> to:

>

> Civil rights bus boycott

> The suffragist movement

Then there's one of my favorites, the Temperance Movement. (For those

of you with a public education, that's the woman's right to vote. If

they could reverse prohibition, they could reverse anything. . .)

Lenny

January 25, 2008

No, I've never gone the bio-med route, and I have seen tremendous gains in my son's growth and development.However, to your point, if I had gone the bio-med route, then I have no doubt the gains would have been attributable to those alternative treatments. Hooker <brian@...> wrote: Do you do any biomedical treatments? I know your position on thimerosal but there is merit to biomed regardless where you stand on that issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > Whoa! Don't kill the messenger. I'm just > > telling you what > > > Geier > > > > told > > > > > a judge in 2004. If there are plenty of > > studies as you > > suggest, > > > > then > > > > > why didn't Geier cite them? > > > > > > > > > > > > My point is that there's not much that a > > judge can do > > during > > > > Daubert > > > > > when an expert witness folds like Geier did. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > know-it-all with > > > Mobile. > > > > Try it now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. > > > > > > > > > > > > >

__________________________________________________________ _______________ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Search. http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php? category=shopping >

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

January 25, 2008

At least you didn't say NAMBLA.

> > Other historical examples of " negative thinking " we should all

aspire

> > to:

> >

> > Civil rights bus boycott

> > The suffragist movement

>

> Then there's one of my favorites, the Temperance Movement. (For those

> of you with a public education, that's the woman's right to vote. If

> they could reverse prohibition, they could reverse anything. . .)

>

> Lenny

>

January 25, 2008

>

> At least you didn't say NAMBLA.

For those of you with a public education, NAMBLA is the Spanish

acronym for the North American Fair Trade Agreement. Both Clinton and

the Republicans were in bed together on that one.

Lenny

January 25, 2008

Hi, Nafta is the North American Fair Trade Agreement.NAMBLA is the North American Man/Boy Love Association. schaferatsprynet <schafer@...> wrote: >> At least you didn't say NAMBLA. For those of you with a public education, NAMBLA is the Spanishacronym for the North American Fair Trade Agreement. Both Clinton andthe Republicans were in

bed together on that one.Lenny

January 25, 2008

Wrong! It's the North American Free Trade Agreement not Fair Trade.

neener neener. You must be paid by Pharma to come here and say these

things. Jane Tallman = Offit.

Lenny

> >

> > At least you didn't say NAMBLA.

>

> For those of you with a public education, NAMBLA is the Spanish

> acronym for the North American Fair Trade Agreement. Both Clinton and

> the Republicans were in bed together on that one.

>

> Lenny

>

January 25, 2008

I had no point in particular - I was just asking a question...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Whoa! Don't kill the messenger. I'm just

> > > telling you what

> > > > Geier

> > > > > told

> > > > > > a judge in 2004. If there are plenty of

> > > studies as you

> > > suggest,

> > > > > then

> > > > > > why didn't Geier cite them?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My point is that there's not much that a

> > > judge can do

> > > during

> > > > > Daubert

> > > > > > when an expert witness folds like Geier did.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ---------------------------------

> > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and

> > > know-it-all with

> > > > Mobile.

> > > > > Try it now.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > ---------------------------------

> > > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

> > > >

> > >

> >

> __________________________________________________________

> _______________

> > Looking for last minute shopping deals?

> > Find them fast with Search.

> http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?

> category=shopping

> >

>

> ---------------------------------

> Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

>

January 25, 2008

I meant NAMBLA, the North American Marlon Brando Literary

Association.

> > >

> > > At least you didn't say NAMBLA.

> >

> > For those of you with a public education, NAMBLA is the Spanish

> > acronym for the North American Fair Trade Agreement. Both Clinton

and

> > the Republicans were in bed together on that one.

> >

> > Lenny

> >

>

January 25, 2008

Offit and me in the same sentence ugh. I've been fighting Doctor's like him for the last 28 years. schaferatsprynet <schafer@...> wrote: Wrong! It's the North American Free Trade Agreement not Fair Trade.neener neener. You must be paid by Pharma to come here and say thesethings. Jane Tallman = Offit.Lenny> >> > At least you didn't say NAMBLA. > > For those of you with a public education, NAMBLA is the Spanish> acronym for the North American Fair Trade Agreement. Both Clinton and> the Republicans were in bed together on that one.> > Lenny>

January 25, 2008

It's wonderful your son has made " tremendous gains " without biomedical

interventions.

I've known children to make tremendous gains with intensive ABA, Speech &

Occupational

therapies alone... only to lose them again with their regressive autism. It's

usually the

severe " gut " kids that experience cyclical regressions (like my daughter).

But I cringe a little when folks use the term " alternative treatments. " She has

inflammatory

bowel disease (caused by chronic viral infections... vaccine strain, btw),

candida & yeast

overgrowth and she's heavy metal toxic. Some mineral imbalances, too.

There are mainstream treatments for those medical problems that give us

" tremendous

gains " in her development... with reduced autistic symptoms.

" Alternative? " Only because she has the " autism " label. If " mainstream " is to

just give

Adderall, Strattera or Ritalin... while ignoring her medical issues (that DO

affect brain

development)... then what we really have is a conflict in understanding of

terminologies.

If your son made gains without biomedical intervention, that is WONDERFUL and

I'm

envious. However without more specific knowledge of the severity of his

autism... or a

little info on his medical history, it's impossible to compare why he didn't

need those

things and my daughter does.

Please don't assume that parents (like me) that see gains with biomedical

interventions are

possibly wrongly attributing them to the treatments... please don't assume that

our

children would have done fine without them. That is oversimplifying our

observations

without getting a thorough history of our experiences.

thanks,

>

> No, I've never gone the bio-med route, and I have seen tremendous gains in my

son's

growth and development.

>

> However, to your point, if I had gone the bio-med route, then I have no doubt

the gains

would have been attributable to those alternative treatments.

>

January 25, 2008

I don't assume so much as I consider possible explanations then ask myself "Which is most likely to be true?" Those familiar with the principle of Occams Razor will recognize what I'm saying.The classic Occam's Razor test involves horses and zebras. If you're walking down a country road (this works best in anyplace but Africa) and hear hoof beats approaching, you expect a herd of horses to come thundering by. It could be zebras (assuming their gaits are similar), but the more likely explanation is horses.I'm open to the possibility that bio-med treatments for autism work, and will believe it when I see proof. Until then, I'm thinking horses.How many folks here open to the possibility that vaccines don't cause autism? What kind of proof would you need to accept that? Nanstiel <erik@...> wrote: It's wonderful your son has made "tremendous gains" without biomedical interventions. I've known children to make tremendous gains with intensive ABA, Speech & Occupational therapies alone... only to lose them again with their regressive autism. It's usually the severe "gut" kids that experience cyclical regressions (like my daughter). But I cringe a little when folks use the term "alternative treatments." She has inflammatory bowel disease (caused by chronic viral infections... vaccine strain, btw), candida & yeast overgrowth and she's heavy metal toxic. Some mineral imbalances, too. There are mainstream treatments for

those medical problems that give us "tremendous gains" in her development... with reduced autistic symptoms. "Alternative?" Only because she has the "autism" label. If "mainstream" is to just give Adderall, Strattera or Ritalin... while ignoring her medical issues (that DO affect brain development)... then what we really have is a conflict in understanding of terminologies. If your son made gains without biomedical intervention, that is WONDERFUL and I'm envious. However without more specific knowledge of the severity of his autism... or a little info on his medical history, it's impossible to compare why he didn't need those things and my daughter does. Please don't assume that parents (like me) that see gains with biomedical interventions are possibly wrongly attributing them to the treatments... please don't assume that our children would have done fine without them. That is

oversimplifying our observations without getting a thorough history of our experiences. thanks, > > No, I've never gone the bio-med route, and I have seen tremendous gains in my son's growth and development. > > However, to your point, if I had gone the bio-med route, then I have no doubt the gains would have been attributable to those alternative treatments. > > >

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January 25, 2008

Pat, what kind of proof would I need? A better explanation for what causes

autism!!!

A better explanation for why my perfectly developing daughter developed a

week-long

high fever within an hour of her vaccines... and became autistic five days

later... for

starters.

A better explanation for why she has high levels of measles titers in her brain

& spinal

fluid. A better explanation for her inflammatory bowel disease... when gut

biopsies show

chronic measles & rubella infections. A better explanation for how she's

excreting so

MUCH mercury from her system when we chelate her (and not before).

A better explanation why she makes gains when we chelate her!

You talk about horses and zebras... but you clearly can't see what kind of horse

you're

referring to.... AND you're ignoring the goddam 5 ton elephant in the corner of

the room!

(Don't feel bad... most of mainstream medicine can't either)

Do you have a more likely explanation when hundreds of millions spent on

genetics yields

nothing? And brain scans? Any clue why brain structures are different? Could

neurotoxins,

autoimmunity and poor nutrient supply affect this kind of development? Sure they

could!

You want horses? There they are. A whole stable of horses making lots of noise.

The zebras are the weak hypotheses driving all the genetics and brain scan

studies.

Occam

> >

> > No, I've never gone the bio-med route, and I have seen tremendous gains in

my son's

> growth and development.

> >

> > However, to your point, if I had gone the bio-med route, then I have no

doubt the

gains

> would have been attributable to those alternative treatments.

> >

>

> ---------------------------------

> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

>

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