AAP Statement on Poling Case

[Guest guest]

I find it so amusing that they put these kind of statements out

thinking that it will prevent anyone else from joining our side of the

debate. Meanwhile the public opinion of them (AAP, CDC etc) nosedives

with each statement they make.

[Guest guest]

Yeah, and the more they put out crap like this, the fewer people

will continue to believe them. I shared earlier this year that an

expecting mother discussed vaccines at length. I did not discourage

her from immunizing, but simply shared our story and suggested she

consider each disease, signs, symptoms, & complications, risk of

contraction, and research the risk of each vaccine. In the end, she

found that most vaccines were largely unnecessary. She also shared

that 11 of her pregnant friends had similar findings.

The AAP can push all the crap they want, but it won't keep

intelligent, free-thinking people from making the safe choice for

their families.

I also find it interesting they talked about HIB in the past, but

didn't mention what current death/injury rates are. Wasn't there a

recent article citing the same number of injuries/deaths as before

HIB?

Debi

[Guest guest]

Good for you! and good for her!

It's much easier for people with grown children to dismiss the link.

But for new moms/expectant mom's like the one you spoke with currently

faced with the decision it is more difficult to dismiss the link.

>

> Yeah, and the more they put out crap like this, the fewer people

> will continue to believe them. I shared earlier this year that an

> expecting mother discussed vaccines at length. I did not discourage

> her from immunizing, but simply shared our story and suggested she

> consider each disease, signs, symptoms, & complications, risk of

> contraction, and research the risk of each vaccine. In the end, she

> found that most vaccines were largely unnecessary. She also shared

> that 11 of her pregnant friends had similar findings.

>

> The AAP can push all the crap they want, but it won't keep

> intelligent, free-thinking people from making the safe choice for

> their families.

>

> I also find it interesting they talked about HIB in the past, but

> didn't mention what current death/injury rates are. Wasn't there a

> recent article citing the same number of injuries/deaths as before

> HIB?

>

> Debi

>

[Guest guest]

http://pedhealth.blogspot.com/2008/03/facts-for-parents-on-autism-vaccine.html

I have a couple of questions...

" Vaccine safety is an issue of great importance to the

AAP and to pediatricians, who support ongoing research

and increased funding in this area. "

Is this the same AAP who has published statements that

spending money investigating the toxicty of thimerosal

was wasting scant resources? Or is the increased

funding to be spent simply upon new vaccines for

diseases which may or may not require univesal

prophylactic interventions?

" Studies show that the incidence of autism has risen.

The apparent increase in autism may be due to a

combination of factors. "

OK, I am confused. Have studies shown the incidence

has increased or has the incidence been static and

mere recognition has increased?

" According to the Centers for Disease Control and

Prevention (CDC), about 1 in 160 children have an

ASD. "

According to the studies conducted by the CDC, of the

1 in 150 children with ASD, 1 in 250 has full-blown

autism { " Kanner's Syndrome " }, a rate determined at

Brick, confirmed in Atlanta, and most recently, in the

14 sties studied for the 2002 paper. This translates

to 16,000 cases per year, each year since 1988 (the

birth cohort for the Brick Study) or a total of

320,000 autistic people under the age of 21.

We contrast that with Kanner's 11, which took him 5

years to find while traveling across the Eastern US.

It does seem rather incredulous that Dr. Kanner needed

to travel so far and wide to find so few when just 50

years later he could have found 3 times that number

just by visiting any small city with a population of

at least 50,000.

Can we really sit back and rely upon such questionable

statements as " more and more behaviors and disorders

are being included in the definition of ASD than in

the past " and " the public and the medical

profession recognize these disorders more often " ?

" Autism has a strong genetic basis. Currently about

10 percent of cases are connected with genetic

conditions such as Fragile X or Prader-Willi

syndromes. According to a January 2008 study,

researchers have discovered another genetic mutation

that could account for higher risk in another 1

percent of autism cases. "

Can 10% be truly thought of as a large enough

percentage of cases to use the descriptor " strong

basis " when discussing genetics? And speaking of

Fragile X, can we truly at this point say that it is

" connected " to autism when in fact less than 10% of

autistic children have Fragile X and less than 10% of

people with Fragile X have autism? Isn't it equally

as likely in this instance that the two conditions are

actually not connected, and that children with Fragile

X may simply be more susceptible to the envirnmetal

triggers that cause autism that children with a fully

functioning, healthy genome?

" Although details of the case and the decision cannot

be disclosed by the U.S. Department of Health and

Human Services "

I don't understand why this is. Are the Polings

unwilling to sign a waiver to allow the details to be

made public? After they have held press conferences,

interviews and appeared on Larry King? Or is it that

DHHS doesn't want this information in the public

forum? What could possibly be in there that SOMEONE

is so desperate to keep hidden?

" HRSA (the Health Resources and Services

Administration) has reviewed the scientific

information concerning the allegation that vaccines

cause autism and has found no credible evidence to

support the claim. "

But that is not what was said in the verbatim

concession that was put online. It clearly stated

that the combination of vaccines, including

thimerosal, aggravated the child's condition which led

to the onset of autistic behaviors.

And isn't that how 100% of autism is diagnosed, by

psychologists and psychiatrists and pediatricians who

are members of your AAP? By observing the behvaiors

of a patient and finding them to be " autistic-like " ?

" Every physician is mandated to report adverse effects

of vaccines to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting

System (VAERS) so that the event may be studied

further. Any adverse effects are acted upon

immediately when there appears to be an association. "

This is the same VAERs that the FDA acknowledged in

1999 had a reporting rate of less than 10%? This is

the same VAERs database that was deemed to be

scientifically useless when the Geiers collated the

data available for DTaP and DTwP and found a

correlation between thimerosal and autism that was a

factor of 11?

Why should we have confidence in VAERs and any

subsequent call for action when the system is

inherrantly impotent to force compliance?

" For example, a Rotavirus vaccine that was found to be

associated with an intestinal condition called

intussusception was taken off of the market. "

But that wasn't done by VAERs. The Rotashield vaccine

was still in test phase when the problem with induced

intussusception came to light and it was the maker who

pulled their request for license and shelved it, NOT

the FDA. One of the patent holders of Rotashield, Dr.

Offit, a frequent cheerleader for mandatory

vaccination at all costs and member of the AAP, to

this day asserts that his failed product was not

harmful. Wyeth-Lederle did not agree, and despite the

investment they had into the project, they cut their

losses and stopped produciton.

" From time to time, rumors circulate that thimerosal,

a mercury-based preservative once used in several

vaccines (and still used in some flu vaccine), could

contribute to ASDs. "

Well that is certainly an understatement. Actually, a

better way to have put this would have been " since it

became known shortly after the Food and Drug

Administration Modernization Act (FDAMA) of 1997 that

US infants were exposed to far more mercury than was

advised under either EPA or FDA guidelines through the

pediatric vaccination program, and observant

individuals noticed that the rise in the incidence of

autism as determined by the CDC at numerous sites in

the US directly coincides with the increase in mercury

exposure as the vaccination schedule expanded, the

theory that thimerosal exposure through vaccines can

lead to autism in children has refused to go away,

despite a series of carefully designed statistical

manipulations passed off as scientific research that

were tailored to make it appear the concern over

toxic, organic mercury was somehow harmful to neonates

whose brain was still in the critical stage of

development and growth was simply scaremongering and

junk science which borders on sedition " .

" However, valid scientific studies have shown there is

no link. "

Isn't " valid " studies a rather strong description for

what were essentially statistical manipulations, all

of which had some rather significant design flaws?

Ver Stratten obviously watered down his dataset, which

when recollated by the Geiers came up with significant

association between thimerosal and neurological

impact. Fombonne compared two separate and distinct

populations instead of sticking to one (apples and

oranges). Croen admitted her mistake, and left the

question about the CA data open. I am still waiting

on Madsen and Hvid to release their notes or respond

to the challenges to their publications which have

been made.

" Some parents are concerned about " combination "

vaccines, which protect against more than one disease

with a single shot. For example, the MMR vaccine

protects against measles, mumps and rubella. These

vaccines have been studied carefully and found to be

safe. "

Didn't the CDC just change their recommendations about

another combination vaccine, the MMRV, which they

found induced seizures at twice the rate of the MMR,

some cases of which were known to lead to induced

epilepsy?

And remind me again what the findings of te Cochrane

review about the MMR was? Oh yes, it was " The design

and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine

studies, both pre- and post-marketing, are largely

inadequate. The evidence of adverse events following

immunisation with MMR cannot be separated from its

role in preventing the target diseases. "

" All vaccines contain antigens, which cause the immune

system to do its work to fight (and protect the body

from) infections. "

And antigens are all they contain, is that right? So

there are no toxic salts of aluminum, no thimerosal,

no formaldehyde, no bovine gelatin proteins, no egg

proteins, no remnants of Simian Virus 40, no MSG, no

formalin, no phenol, no 2-phenoxyethenol, no

sorbitol, no human diploid cells derived from aborted

fetus from a patient in a mental hospital, nothing

like that, right?

" Measles is another example of a vaccine-preventable

disease with serious consequences. Currently in the

U.S., up to 20 percent of people with measles are

hospitalized. This is one of the most infectious

diseases in the world; if vaccinations were stopped,

each year about 2.7 million deaths from measles

worldwide could be expected. "

I have to assume that this refers to deaths in the

Third World, primarily Africa and Southern Asia, as

statistics kept by the US Govt. clearly show that

mortality from measles had declined in the US by about

90% by the 1940's, about 20 years before the first

measles vaccine was ever put into use.

" Likewise, it would only take one case of polio from

another country to bring the disease back to the U.S.

if people are not protected by vaccination. "

In fact, this happened just in 2005 in Minnesota.

When they looked deeped into it, they determined that

it was in fact the genetic strain from the live polio

vaccine, which had been circulating for some time

undetected.

And polio is not the only virus used in live vaccines

that can spread as a result of the process of

vaccination. We saw the same thing when they

reintroduced smallpox vaccine in 2003 and recipients

were advised that they would be infectuous for 21

days. Of course, this effort fizzled out pretty fast

when the nurses, doctors and EMTs who were supposed to

be receiving it began dying at a rate of 1 in 10,000,

well above the 1-2 in 1,000,000 the CDC touted.

" Younger children often are the most vulnerable; 90

percent of deaths from pertussis are in infants

younger than 6 months old. "

And yet, that wasn't the case back before pertussis

was routinely vaccinated against. In the old days the

people most likely to die from pertussis were those

who were elderly, had another major lung disease like

tunerculosis, or had severely compromised immune

systems. Infants who were nursing received protection

from the mother's anti-bodies, and many of the

childhood diseases we now see as scourges were caught

when the child was older and no longer nursing.

Of course, the immunity confered by vaccines is

fleeting, and wears off after 5-7 years, unlike the

immunity confered by catching a disease, leaving

infants today 100% vulnerable since their mothers

never actually caught any of these diseases.

So the danger to infants was largely created by the

process itself, making us entirely dependant upon

continuation at this point or risk a very bad epidemic

before the original order gets reestablished.

and here is something I just can't seem to reconcile:

" Before Hib vaccine became available, there were

approximately 20,000 cases annually. Hib meningitis

once killed 600 children each year in this country,

and those who survived often had deafness, seizures

and/or mental retardation. "

We hear this same thing about rubella (congenital

rubella syndrome), measles and pertussis.

So HiB had (estimated) 20,000 cases per year, " often "

causing deafness and/of MR. And congenital rubella

syndrome often resulted in deafness and/or MR. And

measles often caused MR. And Pertussis often caused

MR.

Pertussis vaccine was introduced in the late 30's and

put into widespread use around the end of WW2.

Measles vaccine was introduced in the early 60,

Rubella vaccine in the late 60's and HiB in the early

90's. We have to accept that the cases of deafness

and MR must have declined following the introduction

of these vaccines, otherwise they are hardly justified

based simply on mortality, as the outright mortality

of all were for the most part eliminated by the

improvements in sanitation, food storage and clean

water that took place over the two decades of the 20's

and 30's. Afterall, more children die each year from

car wrecks than EVER died in this country from routine

childhood diseases with the exception of one or two

peak years, and we do not ban children from riding in

cars.

And yet, while the decline in deafness is clearly

evident from the uproar some " activists " create over

the " ending of their culture " , there truly has not

been much decline in the cases of MR, wit the sole

exception of the US Dept. of Ed. data, which is being

used by those who would deny the autism epidemic as

proof of diagnostic substitution.

This very article, in fact, hints at this idea, where

theu suggest that the " apparent increase in autism may

be due to...the public and the medical profession

recognize these disorders more often " . When you look

at the combined numbers for autism and MR, there has

been a very slow creep, even as more vaccines are

introduced for diseases which ostensibly cause

" thousands " of cases of MR if left unchecked.

My God! We should be up to our armpits in children

with MR if not for these life-preserving vaccines! As

it is we are barely treading water with our nose still

in the air.

And 1-2 in 10,000 (60's) became 4-5 in 10,000 (70's)

became 4 in 1,000 (1988) became 6.7 in 1,000 (1994).

I will tell you what. You want me to believe that

vaccines and autism are unrelated? You prove what

causes autism by making it revert back to Kanner's

rate without changing vaccines. You find the damn

trigger (and there must be an environmental trigger;

you cannot have a genentic epidemic that rises like

autism has without an outside force). You find the

trigger and you stop the trigger so we can clearly see

what is causing autism.

And stop all the double talk, obsfucation and lies.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Excellent response! One of the best I've read!

Kathy

>

> http://pedhealth.blogspot.com/2008/03/facts-for-parents-on-autism-

vaccine.html

>

> I have a couple of questions...

>

> " Vaccine safety is an issue of great importance to the

> AAP and to pediatricians, who support ongoing research

> and increased funding in this area. "

>

> Is this the same AAP who has published statements that

> spending money investigating the toxicty of thimerosal

> was wasting scant resources? Or is the increased

> funding to be spent simply upon new vaccines for

> diseases which may or may not require univesal

> prophylactic interventions?

>

> " Studies show that the incidence of autism has risen.

> The apparent increase in autism may be due to a

> combination of factors. "

>

> OK, I am confused. Have studies shown the incidence

> has increased or has the incidence been static and

> mere recognition has increased?

>

> " According to the Centers for Disease Control and

> Prevention (CDC), about 1 in 160 children have an

> ASD. "

>

> According to the studies conducted by the CDC, of the

> 1 in 150 children with ASD, 1 in 250 has full-blown

> autism { " Kanner's Syndrome " }, a rate determined at

> Brick, confirmed in Atlanta, and most recently, in the

> 14 sties studied for the 2002 paper. This translates

> to 16,000 cases per year, each year since 1988 (the

> birth cohort for the Brick Study) or a total of

> 320,000 autistic people under the age of 21.

>

> We contrast that with Kanner's 11, which took him 5

> years to find while traveling across the Eastern US.

> It does seem rather incredulous that Dr. Kanner needed

> to travel so far and wide to find so few when just 50

> years later he could have found 3 times that number

> just by visiting any small city with a population of

> at least 50,000.

>

> Can we really sit back and rely upon such questionable

> statements as " more and more behaviors and disorders

> are being included in the definition of ASD than in

> the past " and " the public and the medical

> profession recognize these disorders more often " ?

>

> " Autism has a strong genetic basis. Currently about

> 10 percent of cases are connected with genetic

> conditions such as Fragile X or Prader-Willi

> syndromes. According to a January 2008 study,

> researchers have discovered another genetic mutation

> that could account for higher risk in another 1

> percent of autism cases. "

>

> Can 10% be truly thought of as a large enough

> percentage of cases to use the descriptor " strong

> basis " when discussing genetics? And speaking of

> Fragile X, can we truly at this point say that it is

> " connected " to autism when in fact less than 10% of

> autistic children have Fragile X and less than 10% of

> people with Fragile X have autism? Isn't it equally

> as likely in this instance that the two conditions are

> actually not connected, and that children with Fragile

> X may simply be more susceptible to the envirnmetal

> triggers that cause autism that children with a fully

> functioning, healthy genome?

>

> " Although details of the case and the decision cannot

> be disclosed by the U.S. Department of Health and

> Human Services "

>

> I don't understand why this is. Are the Polings

> unwilling to sign a waiver to allow the details to be

> made public? After they have held press conferences,

> interviews and appeared on Larry King? Or is it that

> DHHS doesn't want this information in the public

> forum? What could possibly be in there that SOMEONE

> is so desperate to keep hidden?

>

> " HRSA (the Health Resources and Services

> Administration) has reviewed the scientific

> information concerning the allegation that vaccines

> cause autism and has found no credible evidence to

> support the claim. "

>

> But that is not what was said in the verbatim

> concession that was put online. It clearly stated

> that the combination of vaccines, including

> thimerosal, aggravated the child's condition which led

> to the onset of autistic behaviors.

>

> And isn't that how 100% of autism is diagnosed, by

> psychologists and psychiatrists and pediatricians who

> are members of your AAP? By observing the behvaiors

> of a patient and finding them to be " autistic-like " ?

>

> " Every physician is mandated to report adverse effects

> of vaccines to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting

> System (VAERS) so that the event may be studied

> further. Any adverse effects are acted upon

> immediately when there appears to be an association. "

>

> This is the same VAERs that the FDA acknowledged in

> 1999 had a reporting rate of less than 10%? This is

> the same VAERs database that was deemed to be

> scientifically useless when the Geiers collated the

> data available for DTaP and DTwP and found a

> correlation between thimerosal and autism that was a

> factor of 11?

>

> Why should we have confidence in VAERs and any

> subsequent call for action when the system is

> inherrantly impotent to force compliance?

>

> " For example, a Rotavirus vaccine that was found to be

> associated with an intestinal condition called

> intussusception was taken off of the market. "

>

> But that wasn't done by VAERs. The Rotashield vaccine

> was still in test phase when the problem with induced

> intussusception came to light and it was the maker who

> pulled their request for license and shelved it, NOT

> the FDA. One of the patent holders of Rotashield, Dr.

> Offit, a frequent cheerleader for mandatory

> vaccination at all costs and member of the AAP, to

> this day asserts that his failed product was not

> harmful. Wyeth-Lederle did not agree, and despite the

> investment they had into the project, they cut their

> losses and stopped produciton.

>

> " From time to time, rumors circulate that thimerosal,

> a mercury-based preservative once used in several

> vaccines (and still used in some flu vaccine), could

> contribute to ASDs. "

>

> Well that is certainly an understatement. Actually, a

> better way to have put this would have been " since it

> became known shortly after the Food and Drug

> Administration Modernization Act (FDAMA) of 1997 that

> US infants were exposed to far more mercury than was

> advised under either EPA or FDA guidelines through the

> pediatric vaccination program, and observant

> individuals noticed that the rise in the incidence of

> autism as determined by the CDC at numerous sites in

> the US directly coincides with the increase in mercury

> exposure as the vaccination schedule expanded, the

> theory that thimerosal exposure through vaccines can

> lead to autism in children has refused to go away,

> despite a series of carefully designed statistical

> manipulations passed off as scientific research that

> were tailored to make it appear the concern over

> toxic, organic mercury was somehow harmful to neonates

> whose brain was still in the critical stage of

> development and growth was simply scaremongering and

> junk science which borders on sedition " .

>

>

> " However, valid scientific studies have shown there is

> no link. "

>

> Isn't " valid " studies a rather strong description for

> what were essentially statistical manipulations, all

> of which had some rather significant design flaws?

> Ver Stratten obviously watered down his dataset, which

> when recollated by the Geiers came up with significant

> association between thimerosal and neurological

> impact. Fombonne compared two separate and distinct

> populations instead of sticking to one (apples and

> oranges). Croen admitted her mistake, and left the

> question about the CA data open. I am still waiting

> on Madsen and Hvid to release their notes or respond

> to the challenges to their publications which have

> been made.

>

> " Some parents are concerned about " combination "

> vaccines, which protect against more than one disease

> with a single shot. For example, the MMR vaccine

> protects against measles, mumps and rubella. These

> vaccines have been studied carefully and found to be

> safe. "

>

> Didn't the CDC just change their recommendations about

> another combination vaccine, the MMRV, which they

> found induced seizures at twice the rate of the MMR,

> some cases of which were known to lead to induced

> epilepsy?

>

> And remind me again what the findings of te Cochrane

> review about the MMR was? Oh yes, it was " The design

> and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine

> studies, both pre- and post-marketing, are largely

> inadequate. The evidence of adverse events following

> immunisation with MMR cannot be separated from its

> role in preventing the target diseases. "

>

> " All vaccines contain antigens, which cause the immune

> system to do its work to fight (and protect the body

> from) infections. "

>

> And antigens are all they contain, is that right? So

> there are no toxic salts of aluminum, no thimerosal,

> no formaldehyde, no bovine gelatin proteins, no egg

> proteins, no remnants of Simian Virus 40, no MSG, no

> formalin, no phenol, no 2-phenoxyethenol, no

> sorbitol, no human diploid cells derived from aborted

> fetus from a patient in a mental hospital, nothing

> like that, right?

>

> " Measles is another example of a vaccine-preventable

> disease with serious consequences. Currently in the

> U.S., up to 20 percent of people with measles are

> hospitalized. This is one of the most infectious

> diseases in the world; if vaccinations were stopped,

> each year about 2.7 million deaths from measles

> worldwide could be expected. "

>

> I have to assume that this refers to deaths in the

> Third World, primarily Africa and Southern Asia, as

> statistics kept by the US Govt. clearly show that

> mortality from measles had declined in the US by about

> 90% by the 1940's, about 20 years before the first

> measles vaccine was ever put into use.

>

> " Likewise, it would only take one case of polio from

> another country to bring the disease back to the U.S.

> if people are not protected by vaccination. "

>

> In fact, this happened just in 2005 in Minnesota.

> When they looked deeped into it, they determined that

> it was in fact the genetic strain from the live polio

> vaccine, which had been circulating for some time

> undetected.

>

> And polio is not the only virus used in live vaccines

> that can spread as a result of the process of

> vaccination. We saw the same thing when they

> reintroduced smallpox vaccine in 2003 and recipients

> were advised that they would be infectuous for 21

> days. Of course, this effort fizzled out pretty fast

> when the nurses, doctors and EMTs who were supposed to

> be receiving it began dying at a rate of 1 in 10,000,

> well above the 1-2 in 1,000,000 the CDC touted.

>

> " Younger children often are the most vulnerable; 90

> percent of deaths from pertussis are in infants

> younger than 6 months old. "

>

> And yet, that wasn't the case back before pertussis

> was routinely vaccinated against. In the old days the

> people most likely to die from pertussis were those

> who were elderly, had another major lung disease like

> tunerculosis, or had severely compromised immune

> systems. Infants who were nursing received protection

> from the mother's anti-bodies, and many of the

> childhood diseases we now see as scourges were caught

> when the child was older and no longer nursing.

>

> Of course, the immunity confered by vaccines is

> fleeting, and wears off after 5-7 years, unlike the

> immunity confered by catching a disease, leaving

> infants today 100% vulnerable since their mothers

> never actually caught any of these diseases.

>

> So the danger to infants was largely created by the

> process itself, making us entirely dependant upon

> continuation at this point or risk a very bad epidemic

> before the original order gets reestablished.

>

> and here is something I just can't seem to reconcile:

>

> " Before Hib vaccine became available, there were

> approximately 20,000 cases annually. Hib meningitis

> once killed 600 children each year in this country,

> and those who survived often had deafness, seizures

> and/or mental retardation. "

>

> We hear this same thing about rubella (congenital

> rubella syndrome), measles and pertussis.

>

> So HiB had (estimated) 20,000 cases per year, " often "

> causing deafness and/of MR. And congenital rubella

> syndrome often resulted in deafness and/or MR. And

> measles often caused MR. And Pertussis often caused

> MR.

>

> Pertussis vaccine was introduced in the late 30's and

> put into widespread use around the end of WW2.

> Measles vaccine was introduced in the early 60,

> Rubella vaccine in the late 60's and HiB in the early

> 90's. We have to accept that the cases of deafness

> and MR must have declined following the introduction

> of these vaccines, otherwise they are hardly justified

> based simply on mortality, as the outright mortality

> of all were for the most part eliminated by the

> improvements in sanitation, food storage and clean

> water that took place over the two decades of the 20's

> and 30's. Afterall, more children die each year from

> car wrecks than EVER died in this country from routine

> childhood diseases with the exception of one or two

> peak years, and we do not ban children from riding in

> cars.

>

> And yet, while the decline in deafness is clearly

> evident from the uproar some " activists " create over

> the " ending of their culture " , there truly has not

> been much decline in the cases of MR, wit the sole

> exception of the US Dept. of Ed. data, which is being

> used by those who would deny the autism epidemic as

> proof of diagnostic substitution.

>

> This very article, in fact, hints at this idea, where

> theu suggest that the " apparent increase in autism may

> be due to...the public and the medical profession

> recognize these disorders more often " . When you look

> at the combined numbers for autism and MR, there has

> been a very slow creep, even as more vaccines are

> introduced for diseases which ostensibly cause

> " thousands " of cases of MR if left unchecked.

>

> My God! We should be up to our armpits in children

> with MR if not for these life-preserving vaccines! As

> it is we are barely treading water with our nose still

> in the air.

>

> And 1-2 in 10,000 (60's) became 4-5 in 10,000 (70's)

> became 4 in 1,000 (1988) became 6.7 in 1,000 (1994).

>

> I will tell you what. You want me to believe that

> vaccines and autism are unrelated? You prove what

> causes autism by making it revert back to Kanner's

> rate without changing vaccines. You find the damn

> trigger (and there must be an environmental trigger;

> you cannot have a genentic epidemic that rises like

> autism has without an outside force). You find the

> trigger and you stop the trigger so we can clearly see

> what is causing autism.

>

> And stop all the double talk, obsfucation and lies.

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Here is one article about serotype replacement:

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/?p=89

>

> Yeah, and the more they put out crap like this, the fewer people

> will continue to believe them. I shared earlier this year that an

> expecting mother discussed vaccines at length. I did not discourage

> her from immunizing, but simply shared our story and suggested she

> consider each disease, signs, symptoms, & complications, risk of

> contraction, and research the risk of each vaccine. In the end, she

> found that most vaccines were largely unnecessary. She also shared

> that 11 of her pregnant friends had similar findings.

>

> The AAP can push all the crap they want, but it won't keep

> intelligent, free-thinking people from making the safe choice for

> their families.

>

> I also find it interesting they talked about HIB in the past, but

> didn't mention what current death/injury rates are. Wasn't there a

> recent article citing the same number of injuries/deaths as before

> HIB?

>

> Debi

>

[Guest guest]

This is brilliant!!!! No stone left unturned here...! No matter what

lies the jerks at the AAP tried to hit the public with, you came right

back at em'!!!!

My question to you is, the link provided for the pedhealth.blogspot

didn't come up, and the one gave didn't have a comment section.

Where did you post this? I think there are more of us who have a few

things to say to them, too...even if it's just to back up your

excellent letter!

-Trish

[Guest guest]

My all time favorite! Superb!! Thank you.

--- Dad Fourkids <dad_4_kids@...> wrote:

>

http://pedhealth.blogspot.com/2008/03/facts-for-parents-on-autism-vaccine.html

>

> I have a couple of questions...

>

> " Vaccine safety is an issue of great importance to

> the

> AAP and to pediatricians, who support ongoing

> research

> and increased funding in this area. "

>

> Is this the same AAP who has published statements

> that

> spending money investigating the toxicty of

> thimerosal

> was wasting scant resources? Or is the increased

> funding to be spent simply upon new vaccines for

> diseases which may or may not require univesal

> prophylactic interventions?

>

> " Studies show that the incidence of autism has

> risen.

> The apparent increase in autism may be due to a

> combination of factors. "

>

> OK, I am confused. Have studies shown the incidence

> has increased or has the incidence been static and

> mere recognition has increased?

>

> " According to the Centers for Disease Control and

> Prevention (CDC), about 1 in 160 children have an

> ASD. "

>

> According to the studies conducted by the CDC, of

> the

> 1 in 150 children with ASD, 1 in 250 has full-blown

> autism { " Kanner's Syndrome " }, a rate determined at

> Brick, confirmed in Atlanta, and most recently, in

> the

> 14 sties studied for the 2002 paper. This

> translates

> to 16,000 cases per year, each year since 1988 (the

> birth cohort for the Brick Study) or a total of

> 320,000 autistic people under the age of 21.

>

> We contrast that with Kanner's 11, which took him 5

> years to find while traveling across the Eastern US.

>

> It does seem rather incredulous that Dr. Kanner

> needed

> to travel so far and wide to find so few when just

> 50

> years later he could have found 3 times that number

> just by visiting any small city with a population of

> at least 50,000.

>

> Can we really sit back and rely upon such

> questionable

> statements as " more and more behaviors and disorders

> are being included in the definition of ASD than in

> the past " and " the public and the medical

> profession recognize these disorders more often " ?

>

> " Autism has a strong genetic basis. Currently about

> 10 percent of cases are connected with genetic

> conditions such as Fragile X or Prader-Willi

> syndromes. According to a January 2008 study,

> researchers have discovered another genetic mutation

> that could account for higher risk in another 1

> percent of autism cases. "

>

> Can 10% be truly thought of as a large enough

> percentage of cases to use the descriptor " strong

> basis " when discussing genetics? And speaking of

> Fragile X, can we truly at this point say that it is

> " connected " to autism when in fact less than 10% of

> autistic children have Fragile X and less than 10%

> of

> people with Fragile X have autism? Isn't it equally

> as likely in this instance that the two conditions

> are

> actually not connected, and that children with

> Fragile

> X may simply be more susceptible to the envirnmetal

> triggers that cause autism that children with a

> fully

> functioning, healthy genome?

>

> " Although details of the case and the decision

> cannot

> be disclosed by the U.S. Department of Health and

> Human Services "

>

> I don't understand why this is. Are the Polings

> unwilling to sign a waiver to allow the details to

> be

> made public? After they have held press conferences,

> interviews and appeared on Larry King? Or is it

> that

> DHHS doesn't want this information in the public

> forum? What could possibly be in there that SOMEONE

> is so desperate to keep hidden?

>

> " HRSA (the Health Resources and Services

> Administration) has reviewed the scientific

> information concerning the allegation that vaccines

> cause autism and has found no credible evidence to

> support the claim. "

>

> But that is not what was said in the verbatim

> concession that was put online. It clearly stated

> that the combination of vaccines, including

> thimerosal, aggravated the child's condition which

> led

> to the onset of autistic behaviors.

>

> And isn't that how 100% of autism is diagnosed, by

> psychologists and psychiatrists and pediatricians

> who

> are members of your AAP? By observing the behvaiors

> of a patient and finding them to be " autistic-like " ?

>

> " Every physician is mandated to report adverse

> effects

> of vaccines to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting

> System (VAERS) so that the event may be studied

> further. Any adverse effects are acted upon

> immediately when there appears to be an

> association. "

>

> This is the same VAERs that the FDA acknowledged in

> 1999 had a reporting rate of less than 10%? This is

> the same VAERs database that was deemed to be

> scientifically useless when the Geiers collated the

> data available for DTaP and DTwP and found a

> correlation between thimerosal and autism that was a

> factor of 11?

>

> Why should we have confidence in VAERs and any

> subsequent call for action when the system is

> inherrantly impotent to force compliance?

>

> " For example, a Rotavirus vaccine that was found to

> be

> associated with an intestinal condition called

> intussusception was taken off of the market. "

>

> But that wasn't done by VAERs. The Rotashield

> vaccine

> was still in test phase when the problem with

> induced

> intussusception came to light and it was the maker

> who

> pulled their request for license and shelved it, NOT

> the FDA. One of the patent holders of Rotashield,

> Dr.

> Offit, a frequent cheerleader for mandatory

> vaccination at all costs and member of the AAP, to

> this day asserts that his failed product was not

> harmful. Wyeth-Lederle did not agree, and despite

> the

> investment they had into the project, they cut their

> losses and stopped produciton.

>

> " From time to time, rumors circulate that

> thimerosal,

> a mercury-based preservative once used in several

> vaccines (and still used in some flu vaccine), could

> contribute to ASDs. "

>

> Well that is certainly an understatement. Actually,

> a

> better way to have put this would have been " since

> it

> became known shortly after the Food and Drug

> Administration Modernization Act (FDAMA) of 1997

> that

> US infants were exposed to far more mercury than was

> advised under either EPA or FDA guidelines through

> the

> pediatric vaccination program, and observant

> individuals noticed that the rise in the incidence

> of

> autism as determined by the CDC at numerous sites in

> the US directly coincides with the increase in

> mercury

> exposure as the vaccination schedule expanded, the

> theory that thimerosal exposure through vaccines can

> lead to autism in children has refused to go away,

> despite a series of carefully designed statistical

> manipulations passed off as scientific research that

> were tailored to make it appear the concern over

> toxic, organic mercury was somehow harmful to

> neonates

> whose brain was still in the critical stage of

> development and growth was simply scaremongering and

> junk science which borders on sedition " .

>

>

> " However, valid scientific studies have shown there

> is

> no link. "

>

=== message truncated ===

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

http://www./r/hs

[Guest guest]

Can I forward this on?

Barb

Re:AAP Statement on Poling Case

http://pedhealth.blogspot.com/2008/03/facts-for-parents-on-autism-vaccine.htmlI have a couple of questions..."Vaccine safety is an issue of great importance to theAAP and to pediatricians, who support ongoing researchand increased funding in this area."Is this the same AAP who has published statements thatspending money investigating the toxicty of thimerosalwas wasting scant resources? Or is the increasedfunding to be spent simply upon new vaccines fordiseases which may or may not require univesalprophylactic interventions?"Studies show that the incidence of autism has risen.The apparent increase in autism may be due to acombination of factors."OK, I am confused. Have studies shown the incidencehas increased or has the incidence been static andmere recognition has increased?"According to the Centers for Disease Control andPrevention (CDC), about 1 in 160 children have anASD."According to the studies conducted by the CDC, of the1 in 150 children with ASD, 1 in 250 has full-blownautism {"Kanner's Syndrome"}, a rate determined atBrick, confirmed in Atlanta, and most recently, in the14 sties studied for the 2002 paper. This translatesto 16,000 cases per year, each year since 1988 (thebirth cohort for the Brick Study) or a total of320,000 autistic people under the age of 21.We contrast that with Kanner's 11, which took him 5years to find while traveling across the Eastern US. It does seem rather incredulous that Dr. Kanner neededto travel so far and wide to find so few when just 50years later he could have found 3 times that numberjust by visiting any small city with a population ofat least 50,000.Can we really sit back and rely upon such questionablestatements as "more and more behaviors and disordersare being included in the definition of ASD than inthe past" and "the public and the medicalprofession recognize these disorders more often"?" Autism has a strong genetic basis. Currently about10 percent of cases are connected with geneticconditions such as Fragile X or Prader-Willisyndromes. According to a January 2008 study,researchers have discovered another genetic mutationthat could account for higher risk in another 1percent of autism cases."Can 10% be truly thought of as a large enoughpercentage of cases to use the descriptor "strongbasis" when discussing genetics? And speaking ofFragile X, can we truly at this point say that it is"connected" to autism when in fact less than 10% ofautistic children have Fragile X and less than 10% ofpeople with Fragile X have autism? Isn't it equallyas likely in this instance that the two conditions areactually not connected, and that children with FragileX may simply be more susceptible to the envirnmetaltriggers that cause autism that children with a fullyfunctioning, healthy genome?"Although details of the case and the decision cannotbe disclosed by the U.S. Department of Health andHuman Services"I don't understand why this is. Are the Polingsunwilling to sign a waiver to allow the details to bemade public? After they have held press conferences,interviews and appeared on Larry King? Or is it thatDHHS doesn't want this information in the publicforum? What could possibly be in there that SOMEONEis so desperate to keep hidden?"HRSA (the Health Resources and ServicesAdministration) has reviewed the scientificinformation concerning the allegation that vaccinescause autism and has found no credible evidence tosupport the claim."But that is not what was said in the verbatimconcession that was put online. It clearly statedthat the combination of vaccines, includingthimerosal, aggravated the child's condition which ledto the onset of autistic behaviors. And isn't that how 100% of autism is diagnosed, bypsychologists and psychiatrists and pediatricians whoare members of your AAP? By observing the behvaiorsof a patient and finding them to be "autistic-like"?"Every physician is mandated to report adverse effectsof vaccines to the Vaccine Adverse Event ReportingSystem (VAERS) so that the event may be studiedfurther. Any adverse effects are acted uponimmediately when there appears to be an association."This is the same VAERs that the FDA acknowledged in1999 had a reporting rate of less than 10%? This isthe same VAERs database that was deemed to bescientifically useless when the Geiers collated thedata available for DTaP and DTwP and found acorrelation between thimerosal and autism that was afactor of 11?Why should we have confidence in VAERs and anysubsequent call for action when the system isinherrantly impotent to force compliance?"For example, a Rotavirus vaccine that was found to beassociated with an intestinal condition calledintussusception was taken off of the market."But that wasn't done by VAERs. The Rotashield vaccinewas still in test phase when the problem with inducedintussusception came to light and it was the maker whopulled their request for license and shelved it, NOTthe FDA. One of the patent holders of Rotashield, Dr. Offit, a frequent cheerleader for mandatoryvaccination at all costs and member of the AAP, tothis day asserts that his failed product was notharmful. Wyeth-Lederle did not agree, and despite theinvestment they had into the project, they cut theirlosses and stopped produciton."From time to time, rumors circulate that thimerosal,a mercury-based preservative once used in severalvaccines (and still used in some flu vaccine), couldcontribute to ASDs."Well that is certainly an understatement. Actually, abetter way to have put this would have been "since itbecame known shortly after the Food and DrugAdministration Modernization Act (FDAMA) of 1997 thatUS infants were exposed to far more mercury than wasadvised under either EPA or FDA guidelines through thepediatric vaccination program, and observantindividuals noticed that the rise in the incidence ofautism as determined by the CDC at numerous sites inthe US directly coincides with the increase in mercuryexposure as the vaccination schedule expanded, thetheory that thimerosal exposure through vaccines canlead to autism in children has refused to go away,despite a series of carefully designed statisticalmanipulations passed off as scientific research thatwere tailored to make it appear the concern overtoxic, organic mercury was somehow harmful to neonateswhose brain was still in the critical stage ofdevelopment and growth was simply scaremongering andjunk science which borders on sedition"."However, valid scientific studies have shown there isno link."Isn't "valid" studies a rather strong description forwhat were essentially statistical manipulations, allof which had some rather significant design flaws? Ver Stratten obviously watered down his dataset, whichwhen recollated by the Geiers came up with significantassociation between thimerosal and neurologicalimpact. Fombonne compared two separate and distinctpopulations instead of sticking to one (apples andoranges). Croen admitted her mistake, and left thequestion about the CA data open. I am still waitingon Madsen and Hvid to release their notes or respondto the challenges to their publications which havebeen made."Some parents are concerned about "combination"vaccines, which protect against more than one diseasewith a single shot. For example, the MMR vaccineprotects against measles, mumps and rubella. Thesevaccines have been studied carefully and found to besafe."Didn't the CDC just change their recommendations aboutanother combination vaccine, the MMRV, which theyfound induced seizures at twice the rate of the MMR,some cases of which were known to lead to inducedepilepsy? And remind me again what the findings of te Cochranereview about the MMR was? Oh yes, it was "The designand reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccinestudies, both pre- and post-marketing, are largelyinadequate. The evidence of adverse events followingimmunisation with MMR cannot be separated from itsrole in preventing the target diseases.""All vaccines contain antigens, which cause the immunesystem to do its work to fight (and protect the bodyfrom) infections."And antigens are all they contain, is that right? Sothere are no toxic salts of aluminum, no thimerosal, no formaldehyde, no bovine gelatin proteins, no eggproteins, no remnants of Simian Virus 40, no MSG, noformalin, no phenol, no 2-phenoxyethenol, nosorbitol, no human diploid cells derived from abortedfetus from a patient in a mental hospital, nothinglike that, right? "Measles is another example of a vaccine-preventabledisease with serious consequences. Currently in theU.S., up to 20 percent of people with measles arehospitalized. This is one of the most infectiousdiseases in the world; if vaccinations were stopped,each year about 2.7 million deaths from measlesworldwide could be expected."I have to assume that this refers to deaths in theThird World, primarily Africa and Southern Asia, asstatistics kept by the US Govt. clearly show thatmortality from measles had declined in the US by about90% by the 1940's, about 20 years before the firstmeasles vaccine was ever put into use."Likewise, it would only take one case of polio fromanother country to bring the disease back to the U.S.if people are not protected by vaccination."In fact, this happened just in 2005 in Minnesota. When they looked deeped into it, they determined thatit was in fact the genetic strain from the live poliovaccine, which had been circulating for some timeundetected. And polio is not the only virus used in live vaccinesthat can spread as a result of the process ofvaccination. We saw the same thing when theyreintroduced smallpox vaccine in 2003 and recipientswere advised that they would be infectuous for 21days. Of course, this effort fizzled out pretty fastwhen the nurses, doctors and EMTs who were supposed tobe receiving it began dying at a rate of 1 in 10,000,well above the 1-2 in 1,000,000 the CDC touted."Younger children often are the most vulnerable; 90percent of deaths from pertussis are in infantsyounger than 6 months old."And yet, that wasn't the case back before pertussiswas routinely vaccinated against. In the old days thepeople most likely to die from pertussis were thosewho were elderly, had another major lung disease liketunerculosis, or had severely compromised immunesystems. Infants who were nursing received protectionfrom the mother's anti-bodies, and many of thechildhood diseases we now see as scourges were caughtwhen the child was older and no longer nursing.Of course, the immunity confered by vaccines isfleeting, and wears off after 5-7 years, unlike theimmunity confered by catching a disease, leavinginfants today 100% vulnerable since their mothersnever actually caught any of these diseases. So the danger to infants was largely created by theprocess itself, making us entirely dependant uponcontinuation at this point or risk a very bad epidemicbefore the original order gets reestablished.and here is something I just can't seem to reconcile:"Before Hib vaccine became available, there wereapproximately 20,000 cases annually. Hib meningitisonce killed 600 children each year in this country,and those who survived often had deafness, seizuresand/or mental retardation."We hear this same thing about rubella (congenitalrubella syndrome), measles and pertussis. So HiB had (estimated) 20,000 cases per year, "often"causing deafness and/of MR. And congenital rubellasyndrome often resulted in deafness and/or MR. Andmeasles often caused MR. And Pertussis often causedMR.Pertussis vaccine was introduced in the late 30's andput into widespread use around the end of WW2. Measles vaccine was introduced in the early 60,Rubella vaccine in the late 60's and HiB in the early90's. We have to accept that the cases of deafnessand MR must have declined following the introductionof these vaccines, otherwise they are hardly justifiedbased simply on mortality, as the outright mortalityof all were for the most part eliminated by theimprovements in sanitation, food storage and cleanwater that took place over the two decades of the 20'sand 30's. Afterall, more children die each year fromcar wrecks than EVER died in this country from routinechildhood diseases with the exception of one or twopeak years, and we do not ban children from riding incars.And yet, while the decline in deafness is clearlyevident from the uproar some "activists" create overthe "ending of their culture", there truly has notbeen much decline in the cases of MR, wit the soleexception of the US Dept. of Ed. data, which is beingused by those who would deny the autism epidemic asproof of diagnostic substitution. This very article, in fact, hints at this idea, wheretheu suggest that the "apparent increase in autism maybe due to...the public and the medical professionrecognize these disorders more often". When you lookat the combined numbers for autism and MR, there hasbeen a very slow creep, even as more vaccines areintroduced for diseases which ostensibly cause"thousands" of cases of MR if left unchecked.My God! We should be up to our armpits in childrenwith MR if not for these life-preserving vaccines! Asit is we are barely treading water with our nose stillin the air.And 1-2 in 10,000 (60's) became 4-5 in 10,000 (70's)became 4 in 1,000 (1988) became 6.7 in 1,000 (1994).I will tell you what. You want me to believe thatvaccines and autism are unrelated? You prove whatcauses autism by making it revert back to Kanner'srate without changing vaccines. You find the damntrigger (and there must be an environmental trigger;you cannot have a genentic epidemic that rises likeautism has without an outside force). You find thetrigger and you stop the trigger so we can clearly seewhat is causing autism.And stop all the double talk, obsfucation and lies.__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I too could not find a place to put comments on the

" offending " blog. However, I did backtrace to the

" home " of the writer, and came up with a pediatric

practice. I then found the email address for that

practice and sent my reply directly to them (I wonder

if they bothered to read it through...)

In order to share this with a few of my " friends " , I

also bcc'd it to the EOH list, as well as a couple of

others and an individual or two. Please feel free to

send this on to whomever you may wish with two simple

caveats - keep in intact as a single piece, and do

make sure you credit Dad Fourkids. When I spit in a

bully's eye, I like for them to know it is me doing it

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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