Re: 's post on antifungals, yeast fighter and probiotics

[Guest guest]

when my son was on diflucan, doc said to give at night. i have also heard it is better to give a probiotic at night so it can work while the child is asleep. with that said, when my son was on diflucan, i gave at night as prescribed and gave the pribiot in the morning.

vicki

[Guest guest]

when my son was on diflucan, doc said to give at night. i have also heard it is better to give a probiotic at night so it can work while the child is asleep. with that said, when my son was on diflucan, i gave at night as prescribed and gave the pribiot in the morning.

vicki

[Guest guest]

,

Yes, I did not mean that antifungals and probiotics should be taken

together (they should not), just that they are very important to the

entire picture. When you are finished with antivirals and

antifungals, you should ramp up on the probiotics in a big way so

that yeast and bad bacteria do not overtake the gut and the good

bacteria has a good chance to establish itself. Many doctors

recommending both at different times of the day , but that is not

what we did. We were working from very little information when we

did this.

These things can work against each other, but they are all

important. Virastop and antifungals do kill what probiotics

contribute. Also, my wife read in a few places that OLE and amino

acids work against each other, so we removed aminos during the

healing regression while on OLE, and added them back in later.

So, to summarize, we removed amino acids and probiotics completely

when we started OLE and cranked the antifungals (I wish we would

have cranked the antifungals first). When we stopped antivirals &

antifungals and cleared the yeast, we cranked the probiotics and

resumed amino acids. This worked for us.

I do not see anything wrong with giving probiotics, as long as you

are not giving them with antifungals at the same time. We just

chose not to.

>

> Curious about all of these together, does it make sense to do the

Nizoral/Difulcan antifungals early in the day and then add in the

antivirals throughout day with probiotic at night. I had read that

both enzymes (Virastop is an enzyme) and antifungals would kill

probiotics (can't remember where I saw this). Does anyone have

thoughts on this?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Yes, I did not mean that antifungals and probiotics should be taken

together (they should not), just that they are very important to the

entire picture. When you are finished with antivirals and

antifungals, you should ramp up on the probiotics in a big way so

that yeast and bad bacteria do not overtake the gut and the good

bacteria has a good chance to establish itself. Many doctors

recommending both at different times of the day , but that is not

what we did. We were working from very little information when we

did this.

These things can work against each other, but they are all

important. Virastop and antifungals do kill what probiotics

contribute. Also, my wife read in a few places that OLE and amino

acids work against each other, so we removed aminos during the

healing regression while on OLE, and added them back in later.

So, to summarize, we removed amino acids and probiotics completely

when we started OLE and cranked the antifungals (I wish we would

have cranked the antifungals first). When we stopped antivirals &

antifungals and cleared the yeast, we cranked the probiotics and

resumed amino acids. This worked for us.

I do not see anything wrong with giving probiotics, as long as you

are not giving them with antifungals at the same time. We just

chose not to.

>

> Curious about all of these together, does it make sense to do the

Nizoral/Difulcan antifungals early in the day and then add in the

antivirals throughout day with probiotic at night. I had read that

both enzymes (Virastop is an enzyme) and antifungals would kill

probiotics (can't remember where I saw this). Does anyone have

thoughts on this?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

--,

OUr DAN naturopath has never warned us against antifungals and

probiotics. My son is on a higher sdose of Nystatin and he also takes

a probiotic. aRe you saying they need to be given at diferent times of

the day. This would be difficult as he takes the Nystatin 3x a day.

Do you mind sharing who your source was for this info. I would greatly

appreciate it. As I am not happy that I may be throwing money out the

window by giving him both at the same time.

ALso we started my daughter on an antifungal for clostridia and gave

her nothing else. SHe had a pretty big regression. I am still not sure

what caused the regression. We only had her on the antifungal for 2

weeks. We are going to test again to see if we rid her of the

clostridia. About a week into the treatment we started other

supplements again. She did not really pull out of the regression until

about a week after the antifungal ceased. NOw I cannot determine

attribution. Was it antifungal (garlic) with no supplements, was it

clostridia die off, was it not supplements. WHo know some times it is

tricky to determine what causes what.

ANyway, I appreciate your input and would greatly appreciate it if you

could tell me how you learned about the antifungals, and probiotics.

and the amino acids and anti virals.

THanks a ton!!!

, " scottshoe11 " <shoemaker@...> wrote:

>

> ,

>

> Yes, I did not mean that antifungals and probiotics should be taken

> together (they should not), just that they are very important to the

> entire picture. When you are finished with antivirals and

> antifungals, you should ramp up on the probiotics in a big way so

> that yeast and bad bacteria do not overtake the gut and the good

> bacteria has a good chance to establish itself. Many doctors

> recommending both at different times of the day , but that is not

> what we did. We were working from very little information when we

> did this.

>

> These things can work against each other, but they are all

> important. Virastop and antifungals do kill what probiotics

> contribute. Also, my wife read in a few places that OLE and amino

> acids work against each other, so we removed aminos during the

> healing regression while on OLE, and added them back in later.

>

> So, to summarize, we removed amino acids and probiotics completely

> when we started OLE and cranked the antifungals (I wish we would

> have cranked the antifungals first). When we stopped antivirals &

> antifungals and cleared the yeast, we cranked the probiotics and

> resumed amino acids. This worked for us.

>

> I do not see anything wrong with giving probiotics, as long as you

> are not giving them with antifungals at the same time. We just

> chose not to.

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > Curious about all of these together, does it make sense to do the

> Nizoral/Difulcan antifungals early in the day and then add in the

> antivirals throughout day with probiotic at night. I had read that

> both enzymes (Virastop is an enzyme) and antifungals would kill

> probiotics (can't remember where I saw this). Does anyone have

> thoughts on this?

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

--,

OUr DAN naturopath has never warned us against antifungals and

probiotics. My son is on a higher sdose of Nystatin and he also takes

a probiotic. aRe you saying they need to be given at diferent times of

the day. This would be difficult as he takes the Nystatin 3x a day.

Do you mind sharing who your source was for this info. I would greatly

appreciate it. As I am not happy that I may be throwing money out the

window by giving him both at the same time.

ALso we started my daughter on an antifungal for clostridia and gave

her nothing else. SHe had a pretty big regression. I am still not sure

what caused the regression. We only had her on the antifungal for 2

weeks. We are going to test again to see if we rid her of the

clostridia. About a week into the treatment we started other

supplements again. She did not really pull out of the regression until

about a week after the antifungal ceased. NOw I cannot determine

attribution. Was it antifungal (garlic) with no supplements, was it

clostridia die off, was it not supplements. WHo know some times it is

tricky to determine what causes what.

ANyway, I appreciate your input and would greatly appreciate it if you

could tell me how you learned about the antifungals, and probiotics.

and the amino acids and anti virals.

THanks a ton!!!

, " scottshoe11 " <shoemaker@...> wrote:

>

> ,

>

> Yes, I did not mean that antifungals and probiotics should be taken

> together (they should not), just that they are very important to the

> entire picture. When you are finished with antivirals and

> antifungals, you should ramp up on the probiotics in a big way so

> that yeast and bad bacteria do not overtake the gut and the good

> bacteria has a good chance to establish itself. Many doctors

> recommending both at different times of the day , but that is not

> what we did. We were working from very little information when we

> did this.

>

> These things can work against each other, but they are all

> important. Virastop and antifungals do kill what probiotics

> contribute. Also, my wife read in a few places that OLE and amino

> acids work against each other, so we removed aminos during the

> healing regression while on OLE, and added them back in later.

>

> So, to summarize, we removed amino acids and probiotics completely

> when we started OLE and cranked the antifungals (I wish we would

> have cranked the antifungals first). When we stopped antivirals &

> antifungals and cleared the yeast, we cranked the probiotics and

> resumed amino acids. This worked for us.

>

> I do not see anything wrong with giving probiotics, as long as you

> are not giving them with antifungals at the same time. We just

> chose not to.

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > Curious about all of these together, does it make sense to do the

> Nizoral/Difulcan antifungals early in the day and then add in the

> antivirals throughout day with probiotic at night. I had read that

> both enzymes (Virastop is an enzyme) and antifungals would kill

> probiotics (can't remember where I saw this). Does anyone have

> thoughts on this?

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry to butt in, but I wanted to say that you give the most

clear, lucid explanations ever. No room for doubt!!

Gayatri

> >

> > Curious about all of these together, does it make sense to do

the

> Nizoral/Difulcan antifungals early in the day and then add in the

> antivirals throughout day with probiotic at night. I had read that

> both enzymes (Virastop is an enzyme) and antifungals would kill

> probiotics (can't remember where I saw this). Does anyone have

> thoughts on this?

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry to butt in, but I wanted to say that you give the most

clear, lucid explanations ever. No room for doubt!!

Gayatri

> >

> > Curious about all of these together, does it make sense to do

the

> Nizoral/Difulcan antifungals early in the day and then add in the

> antivirals throughout day with probiotic at night. I had read that

> both enzymes (Virastop is an enzyme) and antifungals would kill

> probiotics (can't remember where I saw this). Does anyone have

> thoughts on this?

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tracey,

Not but...Probiotics give good bacteria and antifungals take it

away. So they should be given a couple of hours apart. I too have problems

getting my son to drink this many times per day. I can't take away the

probiotics while giving antifungals though because I notice softer stool if

I miss the probiotic. As for garlic I thought it, like the OLE, is not an

antifungal but an antiviral which would kick up yeast not get rid of it. I

hope this helped. I give antifungals and antivirals together at breakfast,

after school and again at bedtime. I give the probiotic with dinner.

-

Re: 's post on antifungals, yeast fighter and

probiotics

--,

OUr DAN naturopath has never warned us against antifungals and

probiotics. My son is on a higher sdose of Nystatin and he also takes

a probiotic. aRe you saying they need to be given at diferent times of

the day. This would be difficult as he takes the Nystatin 3x a day.

Do you mind sharing who your source was for this info. I would greatly

appreciate it. As I am not happy that I may be throwing money out the

window by giving him both at the same time.

ALso we started my daughter on an antifungal for clostridia and gave

her nothing else. SHe had a pretty big regression. I am still not sure

what caused the regression. We only had her on the antifungal for 2

weeks. We are going to test again to see if we rid her of the

clostridia. About a week into the treatment we started other

supplements again. She did not really pull out of the regression until

about a week after the antifungal ceased. NOw I cannot determine

attribution. Was it antifungal (garlic) with no supplements, was it

clostridia die off, was it not supplements. WHo know some times it is

tricky to determine what causes what.

ANyway, I appreciate your input and would greatly appreciate it if you

could tell me how you learned about the antifungals, and probiotics.

and the amino acids and anti virals.

THanks a ton!!!

, " scottshoe11 " <shoemaker@...> wrote:

>

> ,

>

> Yes, I did not mean that antifungals and probiotics should be taken

> together (they should not), just that they are very important to the

> entire picture. When you are finished with antivirals and

> antifungals, you should ramp up on the probiotics in a big way so

> that yeast and bad bacteria do not overtake the gut and the good

> bacteria has a good chance to establish itself. Many doctors

> recommending both at different times of the day , but that is not

> what we did. We were working from very little information when we

> did this.

>

> These things can work against each other, but they are all

> important. Virastop and antifungals do kill what probiotics

> contribute. Also, my wife read in a few places that OLE and amino

> acids work against each other, so we removed aminos during the

> healing regression while on OLE, and added them back in later.

>

> So, to summarize, we removed amino acids and probiotics completely

> when we started OLE and cranked the antifungals (I wish we would

> have cranked the antifungals first). When we stopped antivirals &

> antifungals and cleared the yeast, we cranked the probiotics and

> resumed amino acids. This worked for us.

>

> I do not see anything wrong with giving probiotics, as long as you

> are not giving them with antifungals at the same time. We just

> chose not to.

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > Curious about all of these together, does it make sense to do the

> Nizoral/Difulcan antifungals early in the day and then add in the

> antivirals throughout day with probiotic at night. I had read that

> both enzymes (Virastop is an enzyme) and antifungals would kill

> probiotics (can't remember where I saw this). Does anyone have

> thoughts on this?

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tracey,

Not but...Probiotics give good bacteria and antifungals take it

away. So they should be given a couple of hours apart. I too have problems

getting my son to drink this many times per day. I can't take away the

probiotics while giving antifungals though because I notice softer stool if

I miss the probiotic. As for garlic I thought it, like the OLE, is not an

antifungal but an antiviral which would kick up yeast not get rid of it. I

hope this helped. I give antifungals and antivirals together at breakfast,

after school and again at bedtime. I give the probiotic with dinner.

-

Re: 's post on antifungals, yeast fighter and

probiotics

--,

OUr DAN naturopath has never warned us against antifungals and

probiotics. My son is on a higher sdose of Nystatin and he also takes

a probiotic. aRe you saying they need to be given at diferent times of

the day. This would be difficult as he takes the Nystatin 3x a day.

Do you mind sharing who your source was for this info. I would greatly

appreciate it. As I am not happy that I may be throwing money out the

window by giving him both at the same time.

ALso we started my daughter on an antifungal for clostridia and gave

her nothing else. SHe had a pretty big regression. I am still not sure

what caused the regression. We only had her on the antifungal for 2

weeks. We are going to test again to see if we rid her of the

clostridia. About a week into the treatment we started other

supplements again. She did not really pull out of the regression until

about a week after the antifungal ceased. NOw I cannot determine

attribution. Was it antifungal (garlic) with no supplements, was it

clostridia die off, was it not supplements. WHo know some times it is

tricky to determine what causes what.

ANyway, I appreciate your input and would greatly appreciate it if you

could tell me how you learned about the antifungals, and probiotics.

and the amino acids and anti virals.

THanks a ton!!!

, " scottshoe11 " <shoemaker@...> wrote:

>

> ,

>

> Yes, I did not mean that antifungals and probiotics should be taken

> together (they should not), just that they are very important to the

> entire picture. When you are finished with antivirals and

> antifungals, you should ramp up on the probiotics in a big way so

> that yeast and bad bacteria do not overtake the gut and the good

> bacteria has a good chance to establish itself. Many doctors

> recommending both at different times of the day , but that is not

> what we did. We were working from very little information when we

> did this.

>

> These things can work against each other, but they are all

> important. Virastop and antifungals do kill what probiotics

> contribute. Also, my wife read in a few places that OLE and amino

> acids work against each other, so we removed aminos during the

> healing regression while on OLE, and added them back in later.

>

> So, to summarize, we removed amino acids and probiotics completely

> when we started OLE and cranked the antifungals (I wish we would

> have cranked the antifungals first). When we stopped antivirals &

> antifungals and cleared the yeast, we cranked the probiotics and

> resumed amino acids. This worked for us.

>

> I do not see anything wrong with giving probiotics, as long as you

> are not giving them with antifungals at the same time. We just

> chose not to.

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > Curious about all of these together, does it make sense to do the

> Nizoral/Difulcan antifungals early in the day and then add in the

> antivirals throughout day with probiotic at night. I had read that

> both enzymes (Virastop is an enzyme) and antifungals would kill

> probiotics (can't remember where I saw this). Does anyone have

> thoughts on this?

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Tracey,

Probiotics give good bacteria and antifungals take it

> away.

Probiotics are bacteria. Antifungals kill yeast. I can see how

killing yeast would make room for bad bacteria, but not how

antifungals could kill bacteria. Otherwise, they would be called anti-

bacterials. Am I missing something here?

Anne

[Guest guest]

Garlic is also an antibacterial/antifungal/yeast and viral treatment. Our family is SCD and it is the only treatment we use for all of the above and it works brilliantly. I have used it for my ASD son when I see that his focus is off and he is a bit spacey(possible yeast symptom.) I give it in capsules at night for 3-5 days and increase our yogurt consumption and he really responds well to that.

RE: Re: 's post on antifungals, yeast fighter and probiotics

Hi Tracey, Not but...Probiotics give good bacteria and antifungals take itaway. So they should be given a couple of hours apart. I too have problemsgetting my son to drink this many times per day. I can't take away theprobiotics while giving antifungals though because I notice softer stool ifI miss the probiotic. As for garlic I thought it, like the OLE, is not anantifungal but an antiviral which would kick up yeast not get rid of it. Ihope this helped. I give antifungals and antivirals together at breakfast,after school and again at bedtime. I give the probiotic with dinner. - -----Original Message-----From: mb12 valtrex [mailto:mb12 valtrex ] OnBehalf Of deltaskymiles2317Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 10:52 AMmb12 valtrex Subject: Re: 's post on antifungals, yeast fighter andprobiotics--,OUr DAN naturopath has never warned us against antifungals andprobiotics. My son is on a higher sdose of Nystatin and he also takesa probiotic. aRe you saying they need to be given at diferent times ofthe day. This would be difficult as he takes the Nystatin 3x a day. Do you mind sharing who your source was for this info. I would greatlyappreciate it. As I am not happy that I may be throwing money out thewindow by giving him both at the same time.ALso we started my daughter on an antifungal for clostridia and gaveher nothing else. SHe had a pretty big regression. I am still not surewhat caused the regression. We only had her on the antifungal for 2weeks. We are going to test again to see if we rid her of theclostridia. About a week into the treatment we started othersupplements again. She did not really pull out of the regression untilabout a week after the antifungal ceased. NOw I cannot determineattribution. Was it antifungal (garlic) with no supplements, was itclostridia die off, was it not supplements. WHo know some times it istricky to determine what causes what. ANyway, I appreciate your input and would greatly appreciate it if youcould tell me how you learned about the antifungals, and probiotics.and the amino acids and anti virals. THanks a ton!!!, "scottshoe11" <shoemaker@...> wrote:>> ,> > Yes, I did not mean that antifungals and probiotics should be taken > together (they should not), just that they are very important to the > entire picture. When you are finished with antivirals and > antifungals, you should ramp up on the probiotics in a big way so > that yeast and bad bacteria do not overtake the gut and the good > bacteria has a good chance to establish itself. Many doctors > recommending both at different times of the day , but that is not > what we did. We were working from very little information when we > did this.> > These things can work against each other, but they are all > important. Virastop and antifungals do kill what probiotics > contribute. Also, my wife read in a few places that OLE and amino > acids work against each other, so we removed aminos during the > healing regression while on OLE, and added them back in later.> > So, to summarize, we removed amino acids and probiotics completely > when we started OLE and cranked the antifungals (I wish we would > have cranked the antifungals first). When we stopped antivirals & > antifungals and cleared the yeast, we cranked the probiotics and > resumed amino acids. This worked for us. > > I do not see anything wrong with giving probiotics, as long as you > are not giving them with antifungals at the same time. We just > chose not to.> > > > > > >> > Curious about all of these together, does it make sense to do the > Nizoral/Difulcan antifungals early in the day and then add in the > antivirals throughout day with probiotic at night. I had read that > both enzymes (Virastop is an enzyme) and antifungals would kill > probiotics (can't remember where I saw this). Does anyone have > thoughts on this?> > > > > >>

[Guest guest]

Garlic is also an antibacterial/antifungal/yeast and viral treatment. Our family is SCD and it is the only treatment we use for all of the above and it works brilliantly. I have used it for my ASD son when I see that his focus is off and he is a bit spacey(possible yeast symptom.) I give it in capsules at night for 3-5 days and increase our yogurt consumption and he really responds well to that.

RE: Re: 's post on antifungals, yeast fighter and probiotics

Hi Tracey, Not but...Probiotics give good bacteria and antifungals take itaway. So they should be given a couple of hours apart. I too have problemsgetting my son to drink this many times per day. I can't take away theprobiotics while giving antifungals though because I notice softer stool ifI miss the probiotic. As for garlic I thought it, like the OLE, is not anantifungal but an antiviral which would kick up yeast not get rid of it. Ihope this helped. I give antifungals and antivirals together at breakfast,after school and again at bedtime. I give the probiotic with dinner. - -----Original Message-----From: mb12 valtrex [mailto:mb12 valtrex ] OnBehalf Of deltaskymiles2317Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 10:52 AMmb12 valtrex Subject: Re: 's post on antifungals, yeast fighter andprobiotics--,OUr DAN naturopath has never warned us against antifungals andprobiotics. My son is on a higher sdose of Nystatin and he also takesa probiotic. aRe you saying they need to be given at diferent times ofthe day. This would be difficult as he takes the Nystatin 3x a day. Do you mind sharing who your source was for this info. I would greatlyappreciate it. As I am not happy that I may be throwing money out thewindow by giving him both at the same time.ALso we started my daughter on an antifungal for clostridia and gaveher nothing else. SHe had a pretty big regression. I am still not surewhat caused the regression. We only had her on the antifungal for 2weeks. We are going to test again to see if we rid her of theclostridia. About a week into the treatment we started othersupplements again. She did not really pull out of the regression untilabout a week after the antifungal ceased. NOw I cannot determineattribution. Was it antifungal (garlic) with no supplements, was itclostridia die off, was it not supplements. WHo know some times it istricky to determine what causes what. ANyway, I appreciate your input and would greatly appreciate it if youcould tell me how you learned about the antifungals, and probiotics.and the amino acids and anti virals. THanks a ton!!!, "scottshoe11" <shoemaker@...> wrote:>> ,> > Yes, I did not mean that antifungals and probiotics should be taken > together (they should not), just that they are very important to the > entire picture. When you are finished with antivirals and > antifungals, you should ramp up on the probiotics in a big way so > that yeast and bad bacteria do not overtake the gut and the good > bacteria has a good chance to establish itself. Many doctors > recommending both at different times of the day , but that is not > what we did. We were working from very little information when we > did this.> > These things can work against each other, but they are all > important. Virastop and antifungals do kill what probiotics > contribute. Also, my wife read in a few places that OLE and amino > acids work against each other, so we removed aminos during the > healing regression while on OLE, and added them back in later.> > So, to summarize, we removed amino acids and probiotics completely > when we started OLE and cranked the antifungals (I wish we would > have cranked the antifungals first). When we stopped antivirals & > antifungals and cleared the yeast, we cranked the probiotics and > resumed amino acids. This worked for us. > > I do not see anything wrong with giving probiotics, as long as you > are not giving them with antifungals at the same time. We just > chose not to.> > > > > > >> > Curious about all of these together, does it make sense to do the > Nizoral/Difulcan antifungals early in the day and then add in the > antivirals throughout day with probiotic at night. I had read that > both enzymes (Virastop is an enzyme) and antifungals would kill > probiotics (can't remember where I saw this). Does anyone have > thoughts on this?> > > > > >>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Tracey,

Probiotics give good bacteria and antifungals take it

> away.

Probiotics are bacteria. Antifungals kill yeast. I can see how

killing yeast would make room for bad bacteria, but not how

antifungals could kill bacteria. Otherwise, they would be called anti-

bacterials. Am I missing something here?

Anne

[Guest guest]

I think this is a great topic, would like to comment but also hear

what others have to say.

First Ill gives my observation from my son and his past condition.

Also sure would like to hear you expand on this and what your

doc may have shared. Maybe im missing something because we have not

been active with a doc in the past 3 years. Kinda left to figure out

my self.

(Long chelation story). Been pretty much following along with what I

have been helped with from all you guys. So if there is anything new

please share it with us all to digest.

When we first came on board to biomed my son's condition was a mess,

leaky gut, multiple food intolerance phenols, 4 yeast infections,

chronic diarrhea h etc… We first stated cleaning up the gut with

GFCF diet, no sugar, yeast or anything that may feed into his

condition. We started with Nystatin, GSE, digestive enzymes and

plenty of probiotics. Within 3- months we had cleared up all the

major issues and haven't had a problem since.

Yes we have maintained a good diet and have kept a limit to feeding

yeast over the years. No longer use any antifungals but must report

we have never stopped with the probiotics. What I have leaned and

maybe I am wrong but probiotics can be used with great generosity and

there is not a problem with maintaining it to keep the gut in check.

We still use it at lest 2 times a day and during some suspected times

of what I call good chelation rounds we have increased it to 3 times

daily. To my observation this has been all ok..

I know antifungal therapy can be very tricky and still need to learn

here, this requires a delicate balance, not to take away the good gut

flora with the bad. Yeast and die off's are very tricky. But the key

is don't feed the beast.

But From what I believe Probiotics are natural occurring (good

friendly bacteria) found in the small and large intestines. . I

think yeast, as we know it, as the " yeast beast " is one thing hard to

tame. So many parents I hear from over the years have thjis to be the

hardest thing to tame. Also as it is related to mobilization of heavy

metals such as in chelation also a die off to antifungal therapies as

well as an antiviral protocol.I think yeast is thing we all have to

fight some way or another with all these therapies.

I am here to learn and would like to a bit more on the antiviral

side. It seems that you guys know so much in that department and also

seems that antiviral therapy requires keeping antifungal on board

with such a protocol.

Now I can see that that is much more trickier than what I have

observed with chelation so with that said I will say I don't know

squat about this yet so please share what you guys have. Cause this

may be our next adventure.

Sorry so long

If this makes sense or not please comment

And Stan if you comment can you please share if you now of any

families who have used OLE, Virastop or Valtrex without an antifungal

in place. Is what you are saying it would be mandatory or do you

think some may get by without if perhaps their gut may be in good

shape?

Thanks again

Kenny V

> >

> > Curious about all of these together, does it make sense to do the

> Nizoral/Difulcan antifungals early in the day and then add in the

> antivirals throughout day with probiotic at night. I had read that

> both enzymes (Virastop is an enzyme) and antifungals would kill

> probiotics (can't remember where I saw this). Does anyone have

> thoughts on this?

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I think this is a great topic, would like to comment but also hear

what others have to say.

First Ill gives my observation from my son and his past condition.

Also sure would like to hear you expand on this and what your

doc may have shared. Maybe im missing something because we have not

been active with a doc in the past 3 years. Kinda left to figure out

my self.

(Long chelation story). Been pretty much following along with what I

have been helped with from all you guys. So if there is anything new

please share it with us all to digest.

When we first came on board to biomed my son's condition was a mess,

leaky gut, multiple food intolerance phenols, 4 yeast infections,

chronic diarrhea h etc… We first stated cleaning up the gut with

GFCF diet, no sugar, yeast or anything that may feed into his

condition. We started with Nystatin, GSE, digestive enzymes and

plenty of probiotics. Within 3- months we had cleared up all the

major issues and haven't had a problem since.

Yes we have maintained a good diet and have kept a limit to feeding

yeast over the years. No longer use any antifungals but must report

we have never stopped with the probiotics. What I have leaned and

maybe I am wrong but probiotics can be used with great generosity and

there is not a problem with maintaining it to keep the gut in check.

We still use it at lest 2 times a day and during some suspected times

of what I call good chelation rounds we have increased it to 3 times

daily. To my observation this has been all ok..

I know antifungal therapy can be very tricky and still need to learn

here, this requires a delicate balance, not to take away the good gut

flora with the bad. Yeast and die off's are very tricky. But the key

is don't feed the beast.

But From what I believe Probiotics are natural occurring (good

friendly bacteria) found in the small and large intestines. . I

think yeast, as we know it, as the " yeast beast " is one thing hard to

tame. So many parents I hear from over the years have thjis to be the

hardest thing to tame. Also as it is related to mobilization of heavy

metals such as in chelation also a die off to antifungal therapies as

well as an antiviral protocol.I think yeast is thing we all have to

fight some way or another with all these therapies.

I am here to learn and would like to a bit more on the antiviral

side. It seems that you guys know so much in that department and also

seems that antiviral therapy requires keeping antifungal on board

with such a protocol.

Now I can see that that is much more trickier than what I have

observed with chelation so with that said I will say I don't know

squat about this yet so please share what you guys have. Cause this

may be our next adventure.

Sorry so long

If this makes sense or not please comment

And Stan if you comment can you please share if you now of any

families who have used OLE, Virastop or Valtrex without an antifungal

in place. Is what you are saying it would be mandatory or do you

think some may get by without if perhaps their gut may be in good

shape?

Thanks again

Kenny V

> >

> > Curious about all of these together, does it make sense to do the

> Nizoral/Difulcan antifungals early in the day and then add in the

> antivirals throughout day with probiotic at night. I had read that

> both enzymes (Virastop is an enzyme) and antifungals would kill

> probiotics (can't remember where I saw this). Does anyone have

> thoughts on this?

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

OK, hopefully this will clear up the confusion...

Not all antifungals will kill bacterial. Nystatin and Diflucan do not kill bacteria, but should be taken on an empty stomach in order to have maximum contact with the yeast that it is trying to clear up. So this is one of the reasons you should not give probiotics and other supplements at the same time as antifungals. Here is one place I found this info.

http://www.eczema-usa.com/articles_details.asp?Article_ID=12

Many of the natural antifungals are also antibacterials. For example, Olive Leaf Extract, Grapefruit Seed Extract, and Oil of Oregano kill both fungi and bacteria.

So to clarify things a little, the main reason that we did not give probiotics was not so much because of the antifungals, but because of the antibacterial properties of the antiviral and antfungals that we were using. We looked at it as being similar to planting new grass and then spraying down your lawn with Roundup.

Additionally, here is an excerpt that my wife found on a website.

Additionally, you should not take Olive Leaf with the amino acids, cysteine, glycine, histadine, or lysine as it may interfere with olive leaf's actions, and you should never take Olive Leaf with pharmaceutical-grade antibiotics as it may interfere with those drug(s) which your doctor has prescribed. Olive Leaf itself is a potent antibiotic, and in fact is known to attack certain helpful probiotics, including the soil-bacterium, bacillus subtilis. We recommend that you do not take Olive Leaf concurrently with any probiotic formula, and after concluding your use of Olive Leaf, follow up with Microflora Restore to replenish the intestinal tract with helpful bacteria.

This was taken from here.

http://www.altcancer.com/olive_leaf.htm

Here is some additional helpful info on naturals.

http://www.jonbarron.org/newsletters/news041025.htm

The Pathogen Destroyers

Pathogen destroyers represent an alternative, complementary route to optimizing your immune system. They don't build immune function as the immune boosters do. Instead, they "free up" immune function by directly destroying pathogens in the body that would otherwise "occupy the attention" of your immune system.

Olive Leaf Extract

Olive leaf extract has a long history of being used against illnesses in which microorganisms play a major role. In more recent years, a drug company discovered that in vitro (test tube) testing, an extract from olive leaf (calcium elenolate) was effective in eliminating a very broad range of organisms, including bacteria, viruses, parasites, and yeast/mold/fungus.

Oil of Wild Mountain Oregano

Oil of oregano is antiviral, antibacterial, anti fungal, and anti parasitic. It also has strong antioxidant and anti-inflammatory effects. The key components, the isomeric phenols, in dilutions as low as 1 to 50,000, destroy a wide range of pathogens, including: Candida albicans, Aspergillus mold, Staphylococcus, Campylobacter, Klebsiella, E.coli, Giardia, Pseudomonas, and Proteus. Another phenol constituent, thymol, actually helps boosts the immune system.

Grapefruit Seed Extract

Grapefruit seed extract is a broad spectrum anti-pathogen.

Internally grapefruit seed extract can help with gastrointestinal disorders, diarrhea, food poisoning, parasites (single and multi-celled), candida yeast infections, thrush, oral infections, colds and flu, sore throats, strep throat, and sinusitis. Externally grapefruit seed extract is used for many skin conditions as well; acne, athletes foot, cold sores, warts, cuts, scrapes, wounds and infections, rashes, head lice, dandruff, nail fungus, chickenpox and much more! Physicians have observed that the herpes simplex virus becomes inactive just ten minutes after the application of grapefruit seed extract.

Garlic

Although the three previous pathogen destroyers are extremely potent, garlic is my favorite -- for the simple reason that it is the "kindest" to the beneficial bacteria in the intestinal tract. The olive leaf extract, oil of oregano, and grapefruit seed extract can all destroy your beneficial bacteria if taken in sufficient quantity. Garlic is kinder to probiotics. In addition, garlic is one of the best infection fighters available for both bacterial and viral infections. One of its many ingredients, allicin, is a natural antibiotic that does not appear to create resistant bacteria strains. In addition, fresh garlic extract has been shown to be deadly to many viruses.> > >> > > Curious about all of these together, does it make sense to do the > > Nizoral/Difulcan antifungals early in the day and then add in the > > antivirals throughout day with probiotic at night. I had read that > > both enzymes (Virastop is an enzyme) and antifungals would kill > > probiotics (can't remember where I saw this). Does anyone have > > thoughts on this?> > > > > > > > >> >>

[Guest guest]

OK, hopefully this will clear up the confusion...

Not all antifungals will kill bacterial. Nystatin and Diflucan do not kill bacteria, but should be taken on an empty stomach in order to have maximum contact with the yeast that it is trying to clear up. So this is one of the reasons you should not give probiotics and other supplements at the same time as antifungals. Here is one place I found this info.

http://www.eczema-usa.com/articles_details.asp?Article_ID=12

Many of the natural antifungals are also antibacterials. For example, Olive Leaf Extract, Grapefruit Seed Extract, and Oil of Oregano kill both fungi and bacteria.

So to clarify things a little, the main reason that we did not give probiotics was not so much because of the antifungals, but because of the antibacterial properties of the antiviral and antfungals that we were using. We looked at it as being similar to planting new grass and then spraying down your lawn with Roundup.

Additionally, here is an excerpt that my wife found on a website.

Additionally, you should not take Olive Leaf with the amino acids, cysteine, glycine, histadine, or lysine as it may interfere with olive leaf's actions, and you should never take Olive Leaf with pharmaceutical-grade antibiotics as it may interfere with those drug(s) which your doctor has prescribed. Olive Leaf itself is a potent antibiotic, and in fact is known to attack certain helpful probiotics, including the soil-bacterium, bacillus subtilis. We recommend that you do not take Olive Leaf concurrently with any probiotic formula, and after concluding your use of Olive Leaf, follow up with Microflora Restore to replenish the intestinal tract with helpful bacteria.

This was taken from here.

http://www.altcancer.com/olive_leaf.htm

Here is some additional helpful info on naturals.

http://www.jonbarron.org/newsletters/news041025.htm

The Pathogen Destroyers

Pathogen destroyers represent an alternative, complementary route to optimizing your immune system. They don't build immune function as the immune boosters do. Instead, they "free up" immune function by directly destroying pathogens in the body that would otherwise "occupy the attention" of your immune system.

Olive Leaf Extract

Olive leaf extract has a long history of being used against illnesses in which microorganisms play a major role. In more recent years, a drug company discovered that in vitro (test tube) testing, an extract from olive leaf (calcium elenolate) was effective in eliminating a very broad range of organisms, including bacteria, viruses, parasites, and yeast/mold/fungus.

Oil of Wild Mountain Oregano

Oil of oregano is antiviral, antibacterial, anti fungal, and anti parasitic. It also has strong antioxidant and anti-inflammatory effects. The key components, the isomeric phenols, in dilutions as low as 1 to 50,000, destroy a wide range of pathogens, including: Candida albicans, Aspergillus mold, Staphylococcus, Campylobacter, Klebsiella, E.coli, Giardia, Pseudomonas, and Proteus. Another phenol constituent, thymol, actually helps boosts the immune system.

Grapefruit Seed Extract

Grapefruit seed extract is a broad spectrum anti-pathogen.

Internally grapefruit seed extract can help with gastrointestinal disorders, diarrhea, food poisoning, parasites (single and multi-celled), candida yeast infections, thrush, oral infections, colds and flu, sore throats, strep throat, and sinusitis. Externally grapefruit seed extract is used for many skin conditions as well; acne, athletes foot, cold sores, warts, cuts, scrapes, wounds and infections, rashes, head lice, dandruff, nail fungus, chickenpox and much more! Physicians have observed that the herpes simplex virus becomes inactive just ten minutes after the application of grapefruit seed extract.

Garlic

Although the three previous pathogen destroyers are extremely potent, garlic is my favorite -- for the simple reason that it is the "kindest" to the beneficial bacteria in the intestinal tract. The olive leaf extract, oil of oregano, and grapefruit seed extract can all destroy your beneficial bacteria if taken in sufficient quantity. Garlic is kinder to probiotics. In addition, garlic is one of the best infection fighters available for both bacterial and viral infections. One of its many ingredients, allicin, is a natural antibiotic that does not appear to create resistant bacteria strains. In addition, fresh garlic extract has been shown to be deadly to many viruses.> > >> > > Curious about all of these together, does it make sense to do the > > Nizoral/Difulcan antifungals early in the day and then add in the > > antivirals throughout day with probiotic at night. I had read that > > both enzymes (Virastop is an enzyme) and antifungals would kill > > probiotics (can't remember where I saw this). Does anyone have > > thoughts on this?> > > > > > > > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Haha! I was just thinking after reading my last post that I should

have explained things a little more clearly! Thanks though!

> > >

> > > Curious about all of these together, does it make sense to do

> the

> > Nizoral/Difulcan antifungals early in the day and then add in

the

> > antivirals throughout day with probiotic at night. I had read

that

> > both enzymes (Virastop is an enzyme) and antifungals would kill

> > probiotics (can't remember where I saw this). Does anyone have

> > thoughts on this?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Haha! I was just thinking after reading my last post that I should

have explained things a little more clearly! Thanks though!

> > >

> > > Curious about all of these together, does it make sense to do

> the

> > Nizoral/Difulcan antifungals early in the day and then add in

the

> > antivirals throughout day with probiotic at night. I had read

that

> > both enzymes (Virastop is an enzyme) and antifungals would kill

> > probiotics (can't remember where I saw this). Does anyone have

> > thoughts on this?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Kenny, we did not use a doc because at the time the doc we had

did not support antivirals. We were on our own. That said, I saw

your comment about doing antivirals without antifungals and my

reaction would be to say " DON'T DO IT!!! "

As you kill off viruses with the antivirals, sometimes the bad

bacteria or yeast will take its place. Thus the importance of

antifungals. I think this is what started this thread. I wish I

would have known this when we started, but if you know anything

about my son's case (search the archives around January), the

healing regression from OLE took us completely by surprise. We did

not have an antifungal in place yet, and we saw serious yeast

because we were also chelating.

> > >

> > > Curious about all of these together, does it make sense to do

the

> > Nizoral/Difulcan antifungals early in the day and then add in

the

> > antivirals throughout day with probiotic at night. I had read

that

> > both enzymes (Virastop is an enzyme) and antifungals would kill

> > probiotics (can't remember where I saw this). Does anyone have

> > thoughts on this?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Kenny, we did not use a doc because at the time the doc we had

did not support antivirals. We were on our own. That said, I saw

your comment about doing antivirals without antifungals and my

reaction would be to say " DON'T DO IT!!! "

As you kill off viruses with the antivirals, sometimes the bad

bacteria or yeast will take its place. Thus the importance of

antifungals. I think this is what started this thread. I wish I

would have known this when we started, but if you know anything

about my son's case (search the archives around January), the

healing regression from OLE took us completely by surprise. We did

not have an antifungal in place yet, and we saw serious yeast

because we were also chelating.

> > >

> > > Curious about all of these together, does it make sense to do

the

> > Nizoral/Difulcan antifungals early in the day and then add in

the

> > antivirals throughout day with probiotic at night. I had read

that

> > both enzymes (Virastop is an enzyme) and antifungals would kill

> > probiotics (can't remember where I saw this). Does anyone have

> > thoughts on this?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

For people using OLE long term, it wouldn't seem wise to avoid

probiotics. OLE seems only to impact SOME of the kinds of things

found in formulas like Primal Defence.

I was using OLE on my son as part of his antiviral protocol, and if

we missed the second dose of probiotics for the day (one Culturelle,

one SuperProBio) it was much more likely that we had yeast that

night. The same is true now that we're not using OLE. That is, the

OLE wasn't having an impact on those probiotics. What is having an

impact, IMO, is the viral die-off, which somehow feeds the yeast.

And if we are not on top of that yeast with Candex and probiotics,

we have sleepless nights.

>Virastop and antifungals do kill what probiotics

>contribute.

Also, for people using antifungals like Candex, you needn't worry

that the Candex will kill your probiotics. Candex is an enzymes

that digests yeast, not bacteria. There are even people like Dana,

of Dana's View, who dose things like GSE with probiotics and have

had no problems. This isn't what I do, but it is important to

understand that antifungals attack fungal and not bacteria, UNLESS

they are antibacterial as well, and even then there seems to be some

disagreement.

It is my understanding that Virastop does not harm the bacteria of

probiotics. Virastop digests the protein sheath of viruses--it is

an enzyme. Enzymes, like VS and Candex, are very particular, and VS

is formulated for proteins. If probiotics couldn't withstand

enzymes, taking probiotics would be of no use to us because we have

enzymes in us working all the time.

Anita

[Guest guest]

For people using OLE long term, it wouldn't seem wise to avoid

probiotics. OLE seems only to impact SOME of the kinds of things

found in formulas like Primal Defence.

I was using OLE on my son as part of his antiviral protocol, and if

we missed the second dose of probiotics for the day (one Culturelle,

one SuperProBio) it was much more likely that we had yeast that

night. The same is true now that we're not using OLE. That is, the

OLE wasn't having an impact on those probiotics. What is having an

impact, IMO, is the viral die-off, which somehow feeds the yeast.

And if we are not on top of that yeast with Candex and probiotics,

we have sleepless nights.

>Virastop and antifungals do kill what probiotics

>contribute.

Also, for people using antifungals like Candex, you needn't worry

that the Candex will kill your probiotics. Candex is an enzymes

that digests yeast, not bacteria. There are even people like Dana,

of Dana's View, who dose things like GSE with probiotics and have

had no problems. This isn't what I do, but it is important to

understand that antifungals attack fungal and not bacteria, UNLESS

they are antibacterial as well, and even then there seems to be some

disagreement.

It is my understanding that Virastop does not harm the bacteria of

probiotics. Virastop digests the protein sheath of viruses--it is

an enzyme. Enzymes, like VS and Candex, are very particular, and VS

is formulated for proteins. If probiotics couldn't withstand

enzymes, taking probiotics would be of no use to us because we have

enzymes in us working all the time.

Anita

[Guest guest]

> It is my understanding that Virastop does not harm the bacteria of

> probiotics. Virastop digests the protein sheath of viruses--it is

> an enzyme. Enzymes, like VS and Candex, are very particular, and VS

> is formulated for proteins. If probiotics couldn't withstand

> enzymes, taking probiotics would be of no use to us because we have

> enzymes in us working all the time.

>

I am not a Virastop expert, but I thought that since Virastop is

formulated for proteins, and bacteria is composed of proteins couldn't

they interfere with each other? I may be dead wrong on this one. I

am going to have to do some research on this. Maybe it is formulated

to somehow avoid them (probiotics)? Regardless, I do not think that I

would give them together in our case although spacing them out should

not hurt.

Also, there are several types of enzymes in our bodies that have

several different functions. Good bacteria (or probiotics) in our

body actually produces enzymes. They all have their purpose, and

while one child may benefit from one enzyme, another may not.

Digestive enzymes help break down foods. Some kids (like mine) can

avoid special diets using these. One thing that my wife and I noticed

is that many doctors will prescribe a standard set of digestive

enzymes without testing. I do not necessarily agree with this. The

problem is that one child may require one enzyme and other children

may require others depending on what they are have difficulty in

digesting.