Re: Dear God, Deliver Us from Their Insanity!

[Guest guest]

Fair enough.

However, in thinking over what's been happening the past few days, my

feeling is we, as admins, ought to watch ourselves a bit more

carefully and not de-evolve into the same sort of mudslinging that we

receive.

Therefore we ought to apologize first even if no apology is returned

to us.

Tom

Administrator

In a message dated 3/5/2006 6:18:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

no_reply writes:

" ,

" Maurice can believe whatever he wants, even if you don't agree with

it. We ought to respect his right to have his beliefs even if some of

us don't agree with them. "

" Please apologize to Maurice for your sarcasm. "

" Tom

Administrator "

" Tom,

" Maurice was being offensive toward me and others. I demonstrating

the same in return in an attempt to let him see how his comments

affect others on the board. If I get an apology, then I will

reciprocate.

"

[Guest guest]

Fair enough.

However, in thinking over what's been happening the past few days, my

feeling is we, as admins, ought to watch ourselves a bit more

carefully and not de-evolve into the same sort of mudslinging that we

receive.

Therefore we ought to apologize first even if no apology is returned

to us.

Tom

Administrator

In a message dated 3/5/2006 6:18:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

no_reply writes:

" ,

" Maurice can believe whatever he wants, even if you don't agree with

it. We ought to respect his right to have his beliefs even if some of

us don't agree with them. "

" Please apologize to Maurice for your sarcasm. "

" Tom

Administrator "

" Tom,

" Maurice was being offensive toward me and others. I demonstrating

the same in return in an attempt to let him see how his comments

affect others on the board. If I get an apology, then I will

reciprocate.

"

[Guest guest]

Hi Strict,

Forgive the brevity of my response, but my computer is on the fritz

here.

" If life were fair and just and remotely logical, tobacco for smoking

and chewing would be as controlled/illegal as marijuana for non-

medicinal purposes. Once again, I mention " medicinal purposes " as

both have valid uses, though a very small percentage of it is used

legitimately. "

I think tobacco SHOULD be illegal. It would be the only way to get

some people to stop smoking it. I quit for a while this year and

intend on quitting again precisely because it will have adverse

effects on people I care about.

I DO believe it should be legal for " medicinal purposes " and for

religious or ceremonial purposes.

Same with pot.

But at prestent, pot is illegal and tobacco isn't.

If someone doesn't like this hypocrisy, then they should write their

legislators in Congress and get the law changed, and until the law is

changed, they should obey the law.

At present, tobacco smokers are slowly but surely losing their

supposed " rights " to smoke in public places all around the country.

But as rightly pointed out, tobacco smokers have no such

rights when a law is passed AND ESPECIALLY because I RIGHT to smoke

in public was never granted iin the constitution. So I personally

don't mind all these laws being passed and obey them without a qualm.

" And finally, it's really funny: morphine is no less problematic for

addiction than marijuana, tobacco, etc. and yet, it is prescribed

regularly, including very large amounts for palliative purposes, which

is what the medicinal prescription of marijuana would exist for. "

There are drugs even more addictive than morphine that are prescribed

regularly. The difference is, morphine is not so abundant on the

streets because it requires a bit of chemistry to culture. Pot can be

grown alomost anywhere.

" Believing medicinal marijuana for palliative purposes is wrong and

should be illegal while believing that recreational usage of tobacco

is right and should be legal for anyone at all (over 18 or not) is

the height of hypocrisy, and should be left smoldering in the ash

tray of history. "

I agree with you 100% except for the fact that pot use for any reason

is not allowed by Federal law. When it becomes legal, then I will

shut my mouth.

Let me add one thing here...

There are plants all over the word still used by aboriginal peoples

which we would consider drugs and surely outlaw. South American

natives chew coaca leaves as a mild stimulant. Some may indeed be

addictive.

And as I have mentioned in the past, the Lakota and Cheyenne and

others have used Peyote and many cultures use this in religious

ceremonies now days.

If people would use these plants and/or substances and not abuse

them, then we would need no laws to control them. If these plants

and/or substances could be controlled and prescribed for medicinal

purposes, then that's great.

But we have to ask ourselves at present if we want to legalize this

stuff for medicinal use and have a bunch of drug addicts running

around the country committing crimes to support their habit.

We would not be having this discussion at all if we could rely on

people not to abuse drugs. So even though I appear to be the bad guy

here, the blame goes squarely on the addicts who can't seem to live

without their dope and will kill to make it, manufacture it, and

distribute it.

If we legalized it, the killing might go away, but then the problem

becomes an economic problem of people getting body parts cut off in

machinery and car accidents while high etc. You just cannot win.

In short, I believe that God put everything here on earth for a

reason. I bet pot is here specifically to help people with pain feel

that pain much less than they do. But man, once he gets ahold of this

stuff, can not use it in a Godly way, and so it's the abusers that

should be blamed for the whole fiasco.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

>

> Did he have to pay back the merchants for the damages?

>

He was crucified for it.

[Guest guest]

Then remember this please:

Mat 5:10 God blesses those who are persecuted because they live

for God, for the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs.

Mat 5:11 " God blesses you when you are mocked and persecuted and

lied about because you are my followers.

Mat 5:12 Be happy about it! Be very glad! For a great reward

awaits you in heaven. And remember, the ancient prophets were

persecuted, too.

New Living Translation

However, I do get rather tired of people thinking they can bad mouth

Christians and conservatives and think they can have it all their

way. Been seeing a lot of that this past week or so.

[Guest guest]

Tom is correct. It was just a warning, based on a combination of

percieved tone of voice & previous pattern of behavior, but perhaps

coming down a bit heavier than called for at that particular time. If

so, I'm sorry.

Let me also say that I've been glad to find you more supportive and

respectful of other members lately, as well as excellently

informative as ever.

Your not-so-nicely-worded complaint against me, I find rather

humorous in the light of you on an earlier occasion complaining about

me tolerating another member being " potty-mouthed. " :-D

Inger

>

> So, I guess " discussion " and " debate " are only allowed if it fits

> EXACTLY within a very narrow range of expression with no allowances

> for anything deemed less-than-anally-retentively " nice and pure "

> according to one's interpretation without questioning, if the whole

> attack made on that post that I made that fulfilled the rules in

> spirit and letter of the laws that presumably refer to this list.

>

[Guest guest]

> (In ninth grade, I had a teacher

> of English who literally misspelled more words than she spelled

> correctly - even quite simple words like " typwrittor " (her spelling

of

> " typewriter " ). In her class, one could not do well on a spelling

test

> (or even on an essay, since she took points off for spelling) unless

> one misspelled in just the same way she did

> (Knowing that she spelled " stain " as " stian, " spelled " rain " as

> " wraine, " and spelled " train " as " tiran " provided no clue as to how

on

> Earth she would expect you to spell " pain. " It turned out that she

> wanted it " plain " - yes, with an L - and she wanted you to spell the

> actual " plain " as " palin. " Oh, yes, she would also mark you wrong if

> you *or* your parents asked her to check the dictionary, or

mentioned

> that the dictionary spelled something differently and in fact had

your

> *correct* spelling that she had marked wrong and deducted five

points

> for: " I am the teacher. I *know* proper English. One should not

insult

> the teacher by making references to the dictionary or otherwise

> suggesting that the teacher may be ignorant or mistaken. If I was

> mistaken or ignorant, I would not be the teacher. First learn to

spell

> - THEN you can criticize my spelling. "

WHAT?! How was that crazy lady allowed to go on like that? (Probably

had tenure) No wonder correct spelling is so important to you.

I once had a argument (discussion ) with a boyfriend about words.

He said it's okay to missuse a word as long as everyone knows what he

means. I said you have to have a standard and stick to it, otherwise,

communication will be compromised.

He might have meant idolatry.

>

>

>

> Yours for better letters,

> Kate Gladstone

> Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> handwritingrepair@...

> http://learn.to/handwrite,

http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> 325 South Manning Boulevard

> Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> telephone 518/482-6763

> AND REMEMBER ...

> you can order books through my site!

> (Amazon.com link -

> I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

>

[Guest guest]

There's a lot of prophecies and foreshadowing regarding the coming

Messiah in the scriptures. It's just that Christianity believes Jesus

fulfilled those prophecies and is the Messiah.

>

> Re:

>

> > The animal sacrifice

> > was symbolic to teach about the coming sacrifice that Jesus would

> > fulfill ...

>

> People actually practicing/belonging to the religion didn't (and

> don't) see it that way: not at the time we did sacrifices, and not

now

> when we don't do them.

> I find it strange, very strange, to learn what the Christian

> religion believes about the Jewish religion: to learn that,

> apparently, Christianity regards Judaism as a set of symbols about

> Christianity. (Rough analogy for Christians here: imagine how you

> would feel if someday you overheard a Muslim explaining to a mixed

> audience of Muslims and non-Muslims that Christian

> beliefs/holidays/scriptures " were symbolic to teach about the coming

> of Muhammad " ... )

>

>

> Re:

>

> > > ... sacrifice was done away with when

> > > Jesus was crucified ...

>

> Jesus got crucified in the year 33.

> Sacrifice (in Judaism, at least) didn't end till the year 70.

>

>

> Yours for better letters,

> Kate Gladstone

> Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> handwritingrepair@...

> http://learn.to/handwrite,

http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> 325 South Manning Boulevard

> Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> telephone 518/482-6763

> AND REMEMBER ...

> you can order books through my site!

> (Amazon.com link -

> I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

>

[Guest guest]

There's a lot of prophecies and foreshadowing regarding the coming

Messiah in the scriptures. It's just that Christianity believes Jesus

fulfilled those prophecies and is the Messiah.

>

> Re:

>

> > The animal sacrifice

> > was symbolic to teach about the coming sacrifice that Jesus would

> > fulfill ...

>

> People actually practicing/belonging to the religion didn't (and

> don't) see it that way: not at the time we did sacrifices, and not

now

> when we don't do them.

> I find it strange, very strange, to learn what the Christian

> religion believes about the Jewish religion: to learn that,

> apparently, Christianity regards Judaism as a set of symbols about

> Christianity. (Rough analogy for Christians here: imagine how you

> would feel if someday you overheard a Muslim explaining to a mixed

> audience of Muslims and non-Muslims that Christian

> beliefs/holidays/scriptures " were symbolic to teach about the coming

> of Muhammad " ... )

>

>

> Re:

>

> > > ... sacrifice was done away with when

> > > Jesus was crucified ...

>

> Jesus got crucified in the year 33.

> Sacrifice (in Judaism, at least) didn't end till the year 70.

>

>

> Yours for better letters,

> Kate Gladstone

> Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> handwritingrepair@...

> http://learn.to/handwrite,

http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> 325 South Manning Boulevard

> Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> telephone 518/482-6763

> AND REMEMBER ...

> you can order books through my site!

> (Amazon.com link -

> I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

>

[Guest guest]

In the Jewish religion, we believe the world will end when the Messiah comes. We are all still here therefor Jesus couldn't have been the Messiah, because the world would have ended. Bethmikecarrie01 <mikecarrie01@...> wrote: There's a lot of prophecies and foreshadowing regarding the coming Messiah in the scriptures. It's just that Christianity believes Jesus fulfilled those prophecies and is the Messiah.>> Re:> > > The animal sacrifice> > was symbolic to teach about the coming sacrifice that Jesus would> > fulfill ...> > People actually practicing/belonging to the religion didn't (and> don't) see it that way: not

at the time we did sacrifices, and not now> when we don't do them.> I find it strange, very strange, to learn what the Christian> religion believes about the Jewish religion: to learn that,> apparently, Christianity regards Judaism as a set of symbols about> Christianity. (Rough analogy for Christians here: imagine how you> would feel if someday you overheard a Muslim explaining to a mixed> audience of Muslims and non-Muslims that Christian> beliefs/holidays/scriptures "were symbolic to teach about the coming> of Muhammad" ... )> > > Re:> > > > ... sacrifice was done away with when> > > Jesus was crucified ...> > Jesus got crucified in the year 33.> Sacrifice (in Judaism, at least) didn't end till the year 70.> > > Yours for better letters,> Kate

Gladstone> Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest> handwritingrepair@...> http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair> 325 South Manning Boulevard> Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA> telephone 518/482-6763> AND REMEMBER ...> you can order books through my site!> (Amazon.com link -> I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)>

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

[Guest guest]

In the Jewish religion, we believe the world will end when the Messiah comes. We are all still here therefor Jesus couldn't have been the Messiah, because the world would have ended. Bethmikecarrie01 <mikecarrie01@...> wrote: There's a lot of prophecies and foreshadowing regarding the coming Messiah in the scriptures. It's just that Christianity believes Jesus fulfilled those prophecies and is the Messiah.>> Re:> > > The animal sacrifice> > was symbolic to teach about the coming sacrifice that Jesus would> > fulfill ...> > People actually practicing/belonging to the religion didn't (and> don't) see it that way: not

at the time we did sacrifices, and not now> when we don't do them.> I find it strange, very strange, to learn what the Christian> religion believes about the Jewish religion: to learn that,> apparently, Christianity regards Judaism as a set of symbols about> Christianity. (Rough analogy for Christians here: imagine how you> would feel if someday you overheard a Muslim explaining to a mixed> audience of Muslims and non-Muslims that Christian> beliefs/holidays/scriptures "were symbolic to teach about the coming> of Muhammad" ... )> > > Re:> > > > ... sacrifice was done away with when> > > Jesus was crucified ...> > Jesus got crucified in the year 33.> Sacrifice (in Judaism, at least) didn't end till the year 70.> > > Yours for better letters,> Kate

Gladstone> Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest> handwritingrepair@...> http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair> 325 South Manning Boulevard> Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA> telephone 518/482-6763> AND REMEMBER ...> you can order books through my site!> (Amazon.com link -> I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)>

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

[Guest guest]

Why does the world need a Messiah? beth sullivan <dksunglsses@...> wrote: In the Jewish religion, we believe the world will end when the Messiah comes. We are all still here therefor Jesus couldn't have been the Messiah, because the world would have ended. BethI'm from this planet, the rest of you are not.Please go back to Mars or Venushttp://www.simplecomplexities.org/community/

Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

[Guest guest]

Why does the world need a Messiah? beth sullivan <dksunglsses@...> wrote: In the Jewish religion, we believe the world will end when the Messiah comes. We are all still here therefor Jesus couldn't have been the Messiah, because the world would have ended. BethI'm from this planet, the rest of you are not.Please go back to Mars or Venushttp://www.simplecomplexities.org/community/

Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

[Guest guest]

" I once had a argument (discussion ) with a boyfriend about words.

He said it's okay to missuse a word as long as everyone knows what he

means. I said you have to have a standard and stick to it, otherwise,

communication will be compromised. "

Ahhhhhhhhh but it does happen so much in language - like the

word 'cool', which many people use to mean something really

good/great? like in 'he's a really cool guy'. I don't suppose they

mean the guy is cold :-)

Also confusing sayings such as 'raining cats and dogs' - this one has

been used a fair bit, but I certainly do not know why people say it

and fail to see any connection between rain and cats and dogs.

I suspect from what I have seen of language that it evolves - like

the word 'gay' seems to have changed meaning and there even ends up

being new words added. The word 'phat', pronounced as fat seems to be

one of these new made up words.

>

> > (In ninth grade, I had a teacher

> > of English who literally misspelled more words than she spelled

> > correctly - even quite simple words like " typwrittor " (her

spelling

> of

> > " typewriter " ). In her class, one could not do well on a spelling

> test

> > (or even on an essay, since she took points off for spelling)

unless

> > one misspelled in just the same way she did

> > (Knowing that she spelled " stain " as " stian, " spelled " rain " as

> > " wraine, " and spelled " train " as " tiran " provided no clue as to

how

> on

> > Earth she would expect you to spell " pain. " It turned out that she

> > wanted it " plain " - yes, with an L - and she wanted you to spell

the

> > actual " plain " as " palin. " Oh, yes, she would also mark you wrong

if

> > you *or* your parents asked her to check the dictionary, or

> mentioned

> > that the dictionary spelled something differently and in fact had

> your

> > *correct* spelling that she had marked wrong and deducted five

> points

> > for: " I am the teacher. I *know* proper English. One should not

> insult

> > the teacher by making references to the dictionary or otherwise

> > suggesting that the teacher may be ignorant or mistaken. If I was

> > mistaken or ignorant, I would not be the teacher. First learn to

> spell

> > - THEN you can criticize my spelling. "

>

> WHAT?! How was that crazy lady allowed to go on like that?

(Probably

> had tenure) No wonder correct spelling is so important to you.

>

> I once had a argument (discussion ) with a boyfriend about

words.

> He said it's okay to missuse a word as long as everyone knows what

he

> means. I said you have to have a standard and stick to it,

otherwise,

> communication will be compromised.

>

> He might have meant idolatry.

> >

> >

> >

> > Yours for better letters,

> > Kate Gladstone

> > Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> > handwritingrepair@

> > http://learn.to/handwrite,

> http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> > 325 South Manning Boulevard

> > Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> > telephone 518/482-6763

> > AND REMEMBER ...

> > you can order books through my site!

> > (Amazon.com link -

> > I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The world certainly needs something, looking at the state of it,

thinking yet again of humans here.

> In the Jewish religion, we believe the world will end when the

Messiah comes. We are all still here therefor Jesus couldn't have

been the Messiah, because the world would have ended.

>

> Beth

>

>

> I'm from this planet, the rest of you are not.

> Please go back to Mars or Venus

> http://www.simplecomplexities.org/community/

>

> ---------------------------------

>

> Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

>

[Guest guest]

When Jesus overturned the tables of the moneychangers he did it

because they were cheating the people, making exhorbitant profits by

charging high prices and taking advantage. People came from far away

and needed their money changed and high fees were charged to do so.

Also if they brought an animal for sacrifice it had to be approved by

an inspector at the temple. Often these inspectors were corrupt and

the person was told their animal was not approved and they would then

have to buy a high-priced one from the corrupt dealer. Since Jesus

was someone who stood up for the poor and unfortunate, he was angry

at the extortion of the poor. The Mishnah tells of a time when the

price of a pair of doves was a golden denar, which was an exhorbitant

price for a dove. This prompted Simeon the son of Gamaliel to

declare: " By this Temple! I will not suffer the night to pass by

before they cost but a [silver] denar. " On that day the price was

reduced - Keritot 1:7.

>

> Re:

>

> > Jesus once destroyed a market because the market in question was

> > established inside a church.

>

> Remember that this church (temple, actually) required sacrifices.

> Sacrifice in that time and place contributed *the* major method of

> prayer and ritual. People came to this temple not just from all over

> Israel, but from many parts of Asia and even some parts of Africa

and

> Europe. So?

> So ... if you came from miles away to sacrifice in Jerusalem,

> you usually wouldn't bring your own sacrificial animal. It might get

> sick or hurt on the way, or die, or at least lose its fat from the

> rigors of the journey, or otherwise not pass the priestly

> quality-control when you finally got there from Rome or Egypt or

> wherever. The congregants wanted to offer (and the priests wanted to

> sacrifice) animals of fine quality. (Remember that the priests got

to

> eat various parts of most types of sacrifice.) So ... instead of

> bringing their own lambs or whatever, people in those times would

> usually rear a lamb at home, sell it in their own country, take the

> money on their trek to the Temple, buy a lamb there, and offer that.

> So ...

> ... to make all this work, they had to have a market there:

with

> money-changers too, to take the different currencies from all over

the

> world and exchange them for currency valid at the temple. (For one

> thing, the coins from other parts of the world often had images of

> non-Jewish gods and goddesses, which you couldn't bring into the

> actual temple because these images would desecrate the temple). So

you

> had to stop at the porch and get your currency changed before you

> could go in further, buy your animal, then bring it to the priests.

> By disrupting the market, Jesus prevented his fellow Jews

from

> performing sacred ceremonies that God had commanded for them (or

that,

> anyway, they believed that God had commanded) - to the other Jews,

> Jesus probably seemed like (modern analogy) a Catholic who showed up

> at the Vatican one day and started smashing things.

>

>

> Yours for better letters,

> Kate Gladstone

> Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> handwritingrepair@...

> http://learn.to/handwrite,

http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> 325 South Manning Boulevard

> Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> telephone 518/482-6763

> AND REMEMBER ...

> you can order books through my site!

> (Amazon.com link -

> I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

>

[Guest guest]

Re:

> ... confusing sayings such as 'raining cats and dogs' - this one has

> been used a fair bit, but I certainly do not know why people say it

> and fail to see any connection between rain and cats and dogs.

For the surprising origins of " raining cats and dogs " and many other

common expressions, see

http://library.thinkquest.org/13681/data/tut/origin.htm

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Mike, for your accurate info and for actually quoting a

*Jewish* source. Yes indeed, corruption has (at times, at least)

inhabited Judaism and every other religion, that I know some history

of (I can't talk about the ones whose history I do not know - but

within Judaism as [i think] anywhere else, things did not always work

out as they should have worked: yes, corrupt people *did* take

advantage of others because the corrupt ones had, basically, a

" captive audience " - if you absolutely, positively needed to buy a

sacrifice, then you would just have to buy it whatever it cost.)

I still think (and apparently Rabbi Simeon ben Gamaliel thought, too)

that there exist better ways of combating price-gouging (and other

forms of corruption) than wrecking the store.

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

[Guest guest]

>

Jewish World Review Feb. 20, 2003 / 18 Adar I, 5763

Lederer

another view...

Spook etymology on the Internet

http://www.NewsAndOpinion.com | Recently, all around the Internet

has been sparking an item called " Life in the 1500s. " The color and

romance of the word and phrase explanations in the message are as

beguiling as can be. But as soon as I opened the messages (sent to

me by more than 50 people because I'm on everybody's list), I knew

that most of the so-called historical revelations therein were false.

Take (please!) this electronic explanation of a common meterological

phrase: " Houses had thatched roofs. Thick straw, piled high, with no

wood underneath. It was the only place for animals to get warm, so

all the pets -- dogs, cats, mice, rats and bugs -- lived in the

roof. When it rained it became slippery and sometimes the animals

would slip and fall off the roof. Hence the saying, 'It's raining

cats and dogs.' "

Dubious. The literal explanation is that during heavy rains in not

so Merry Olde England some city streets became raging rivers of

filth carrying many dead cats and dogs. But there is also strong

evidence that the phrase " it's raining cats and dogs " may not be

literal.

In the dark Ages, people believed that animals, including cats and

dogs, had magical powers. Cats were associated with storms,

especially the black cats of witches, while dogs were frequently

associated with winds. The Norse storm god Odin was frequently shown

surrounded by dogs and wolves. So when a particularly violent storm

came along, people would say " It's raining cats and dogs, " with the

cats symbolizing the rain and the dogs representing the wind and

storm. This folkloric explanation is supported by such expressions

as " it's raining dogs and polecats " and " it's raining pitchforks. "

The e-message continues, " The floor was dirt. Only the wealthy had

something other than dirt, hence the saying 'dirt poor.' The wealthy

had slate floors which would get slippery in the winter when wet. So

they spread thresh on the floor to help keep their footing. As the

winter wore on they kept adding more thresh until when you opened

the door, you would all start slipping outside. A piece of wood was

placed at the entry way, hence a 'thresh hold.' "

Nonsense. " Threshold, " first recorded in the year 1000, descends

from an Old English compound " threscold, " " doorsill, point of

entry. " The " hold " has nothing to do with keeping one's footing. The

original meaning of " thresh " was " to tread, to trample. " Farmers

originally threshed wheat, separated the grain from the chaff, by

treading on piles of it. The treading seemed similar to wiping one's

feet at the doorway of a house, and that entrance took the

name " threshold " from such threshing, or treading.

The e-drivel continues flowing: " Sometimes they could obtain pork

and would feel really special when that happened. When company came

over, they would bring out some bacon and hang it to show it off. It

was a sign of wealth and that a man 'could really bring home the

bacon.' They would cut off a little share with guests and would all

sit and 'chew the fat.'

Ridiculous. Here the bacon refers to the greased pig that once

figured so prominently in American county fairs. The slippery swine

was awarded to whoever caught it, and the winner could take (bring)

it home.

" Chew the fat " is unknown before the American Civil War. One theory

contends that sailors working their jaws on the tough salt pork

rationed out when supplies ran low constantly grumbled about their

poor fare while literally chewing the fat. What seems clear is that

chewing the fat, like shooting the breeze, provides little

sustenance for the amount of mastication involved.

Which is just what happens with jerry-built, jury-rigged etymologies.

The Greek " etymon " means " true, original, " and the Greek root " -

logia " means " science or study. " Thus, etymology is supposed to be

the science or study of true and original word meanings.

But I have learned that the proud house of etymology is populated by

all manner of ghoulies and ghosties and long-leggety beasties

miscreated by spook etymologists. ( " Spook " reaches back to the

Dutch " spooc, " " ghost, specter. " ) These sham scholars would rather

invent a word origin after the fact than trace it to its true

source. Spooks prefer drama and romance to accuracy and truth.

A dramatic example of spook etymology is dragging its chains around

the Internet even as I write. " Life in the 1500s " purports to

explain all sorts of words and phrases on the basis of life 500

years ago. Alas, almost all the etymologies in " Life in the 1500s "

are spookily haunted. Some of the most bogus explanations pertain to

death:

" Lead cups were used to drink ale or whiskey, " proclaims the

Internet message. " The combination would sometimes knock people out

for a couple of days. Someone walking along the road would them for

dead and prepare them for burial. They were laid out on the kitchen

table for a couple of days and the family would gather around and

eat and drink and wait and see if they would wake up. Hence the

custom of holding a 'wake.'

Folderol! " Wake " descends from the Middle English " wakien, " " to be

awake, " and is cognate with the Latin " vigil. " " Wake " simply means,

traditionally at least, that someone stays awake all night at the

side of the casket on the night before the funeral.

Now for the tour de farce of the spook etymologies that clank

throughout this e-message: " England is old and small, and they

started running out of places to bury people. So, they would dig up

coffins and would take their bones to a house and re-use the grave.

In reopening these coffins, one out of 25 coffins were found to have

scratch marks on the inside and they realized they had been burying

people alive. So they thought they would tie a string on their wrist

and lead it through the coffin and up through the ground and tie it

to a bell.

" Someone would have to sit out in the graveyard all night to listen

for the bell. Hence on the 'graveyard shift' they would know that

someone was 'saved by the bell' or he was a 'dead ringer.'

Complete balderdash!. In factories that work around the clock,

employees report for work at 8 a.m. for the " regular " or " day "

shift; at 4 p.m. for the " swing " or " night " shift; and at midnight

for the " graveyard " shift, lasting until 8 a.m. According to Harold

Wentworth and Stuart Berg Flexner's Dictionary of American Slang,

the name " graveyard shift " refers to " the ghostlike hour of

employment " -- and nothing more.

Now the plot deepens, and our subject turns grave: " Dead ringers "

actually originated at the race track. To take advantage of the long

odds against an inferior horse's winning a race, unscrupulous

gamblers would substitute a horse of superior ability and similar

appearance. Nowadays, " dead ringer " means any close look-alike.

Why " ringer " ? Probably because " ringer " was once a slang term for a

counterfeiter who represented brass rings for gold ones at county

fairs. And " dead " here means " absolute, exact, " as in " dead heat "

and " you're dead right. "

Should I even dignify the above explanation of " saved by the bell "

with a logical explanation. Oh well, here 'tis, and it's just what

you thought in the first place. " Saved by the bell " is nothing more

than the obvious -- a reference to the bell signaling the end of a

round of boxing. No matter what condition a fighter is in during a

boxing contest, even if he is being counted out, he is saved by the

bell and gains a reprieve once that bell rings. I do hope that we

all gain a reprieve from these idiotic spook etymologies that clank

around the Internet and haunt the proud house of our English

language.

> Re:

>

> > ... confusing sayings such as 'raining cats and dogs' - this one

has

> > been used a fair bit, but I certainly do not know why people say

it

> > and fail to see any connection between rain and cats and dogs.

>

> For the surprising origins of " raining cats and dogs " and many

other

> common expressions, see

> http://library.thinkquest.org/13681/data/tut/origin.htm

>

>

>

> Yours for better letters,

> Kate Gladstone

> Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> handwritingrepair@...

> http://learn.to/handwrite,

http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> 325 South Manning Boulevard

> Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> telephone 518/482-6763

> AND REMEMBER ...

> you can order books through my site!

> (Amazon.com link -

> I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks to you (and to Lederer) for explaining that the amusing

" explanations " piece actually belongs to the misty and

often-hard-to-unveil world of " spook etymology " : often called " folk

etymology. " A pity ...

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the link - I've added it to my favourites :-)

>

> Re:

>

> > ... confusing sayings such as 'raining cats and dogs' - this one

has

> > been used a fair bit, but I certainly do not know why people say

it

> > and fail to see any connection between rain and cats and dogs.

>

> For the surprising origins of " raining cats and dogs " and many other

> common expressions, see

> http://library.thinkquest.org/13681/data/tut/origin.htm

>

>

>

> Yours for better letters,

> Kate Gladstone

> Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> handwritingrepair@...

> http://learn.to/handwrite,

http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> 325 South Manning Boulevard

> Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> telephone 518/482-6763

> AND REMEMBER ...

> you can order books through my site!

> (Amazon.com link -

> I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

>

[Guest guest]

Interesting - I hadn't had chance to look at previous link - glad you

wrote the below post though. I don't always believe what I read, but

it is hard to know now what is truth and not with so much info'

available - thanks for this info' though :-)

>

>

> >

> Jewish World Review Feb. 20, 2003 / 18 Adar I, 5763

> Lederer

>

> another view...

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Spook etymology on the Internet

>

>

>

>

>

>

> http://www.NewsAndOpinion.com | Recently, all around the Internet

> has been sparking an item called " Life in the 1500s. " The color and

> romance of the word and phrase explanations in the message are as

> beguiling as can be. But as soon as I opened the messages (sent to

> me by more than 50 people because I'm on everybody's list), I knew

> that most of the so-called historical revelations therein were

false.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Take (please!) this electronic explanation of a common

meterological

> phrase: " Houses had thatched roofs. Thick straw, piled high, with

no

> wood underneath. It was the only place for animals to get warm, so

> all the pets -- dogs, cats, mice, rats and bugs -- lived in the

> roof. When it rained it became slippery and sometimes the animals

> would slip and fall off the roof. Hence the saying, 'It's raining

> cats and dogs.' "

>

> Dubious. The literal explanation is that during heavy rains in not

> so Merry Olde England some city streets became raging rivers of

> filth carrying many dead cats and dogs. But there is also strong

> evidence that the phrase " it's raining cats and dogs " may not be

> literal.

>

> In the dark Ages, people believed that animals, including cats and

> dogs, had magical powers. Cats were associated with storms,

> especially the black cats of witches, while dogs were frequently

> associated with winds. The Norse storm god Odin was frequently

shown

> surrounded by dogs and wolves. So when a particularly violent storm

> came along, people would say " It's raining cats and dogs, " with the

> cats symbolizing the rain and the dogs representing the wind and

> storm. This folkloric explanation is supported by such expressions

> as " it's raining dogs and polecats " and " it's raining pitchforks. "

>

> The e-message continues, " The floor was dirt. Only the wealthy had

> something other than dirt, hence the saying 'dirt poor.' The

wealthy

> had slate floors which would get slippery in the winter when wet.

So

> they spread thresh on the floor to help keep their footing. As the

> winter wore on they kept adding more thresh until when you opened

> the door, you would all start slipping outside. A piece of wood was

> placed at the entry way, hence a 'thresh hold.' "

>

> Nonsense. " Threshold, " first recorded in the year 1000, descends

> from an Old English compound " threscold, " " doorsill, point of

> entry. " The " hold " has nothing to do with keeping one's footing.

The

> original meaning of " thresh " was " to tread, to trample. " Farmers

> originally threshed wheat, separated the grain from the chaff, by

> treading on piles of it. The treading seemed similar to wiping

one's

> feet at the doorway of a house, and that entrance took the

> name " threshold " from such threshing, or treading.

>

> The e-drivel continues flowing: " Sometimes they could obtain pork

> and would feel really special when that happened. When company came

> over, they would bring out some bacon and hang it to show it off.

It

> was a sign of wealth and that a man 'could really bring home the

> bacon.' They would cut off a little share with guests and would all

> sit and 'chew the fat.'

>

> Ridiculous. Here the bacon refers to the greased pig that once

> figured so prominently in American county fairs. The slippery swine

> was awarded to whoever caught it, and the winner could take (bring)

> it home.

>

> " Chew the fat " is unknown before the American Civil War. One theory

> contends that sailors working their jaws on the tough salt pork

> rationed out when supplies ran low constantly grumbled about their

> poor fare while literally chewing the fat. What seems clear is that

> chewing the fat, like shooting the breeze, provides little

> sustenance for the amount of mastication involved.

>

> Which is just what happens with jerry-built, jury-rigged

etymologies.

>

> The Greek " etymon " means " true, original, " and the Greek root " -

> logia " means " science or study. " Thus, etymology is supposed to be

> the science or study of true and original word meanings.

>

> But I have learned that the proud house of etymology is populated

by

> all manner of ghoulies and ghosties and long-leggety beasties

> miscreated by spook etymologists. ( " Spook " reaches back to the

> Dutch " spooc, " " ghost, specter. " ) These sham scholars would rather

> invent a word origin after the fact than trace it to its true

> source. Spooks prefer drama and romance to accuracy and truth.

>

> A dramatic example of spook etymology is dragging its chains around

> the Internet even as I write. " Life in the 1500s " purports to

> explain all sorts of words and phrases on the basis of life 500

> years ago. Alas, almost all the etymologies in " Life in the 1500s "

> are spookily haunted. Some of the most bogus explanations pertain

to

> death:

>

> " Lead cups were used to drink ale or whiskey, " proclaims the

> Internet message. " The combination would sometimes knock people out

> for a couple of days. Someone walking along the road would them for

> dead and prepare them for burial. They were laid out on the kitchen

> table for a couple of days and the family would gather around and

> eat and drink and wait and see if they would wake up. Hence the

> custom of holding a 'wake.'

>

> Folderol! " Wake " descends from the Middle English " wakien, " " to be

> awake, " and is cognate with the Latin " vigil. " " Wake " simply means,

> traditionally at least, that someone stays awake all night at the

> side of the casket on the night before the funeral.

>

> Now for the tour de farce of the spook etymologies that clank

> throughout this e-message: " England is old and small, and they

> started running out of places to bury people. So, they would dig up

> coffins and would take their bones to a house and re-use the grave.

> In reopening these coffins, one out of 25 coffins were found to

have

> scratch marks on the inside and they realized they had been burying

> people alive. So they thought they would tie a string on their

wrist

> and lead it through the coffin and up through the ground and tie it

> to a bell.

>

> " Someone would have to sit out in the graveyard all night to listen

> for the bell. Hence on the 'graveyard shift' they would know that

> someone was 'saved by the bell' or he was a 'dead ringer.'

>

> Complete balderdash!. In factories that work around the clock,

> employees report for work at 8 a.m. for the " regular " or " day "

> shift; at 4 p.m. for the " swing " or " night " shift; and at midnight

> for the " graveyard " shift, lasting until 8 a.m. According to Harold

> Wentworth and Stuart Berg Flexner's Dictionary of American Slang,

> the name " graveyard shift " refers to " the ghostlike hour of

> employment " -- and nothing more.

>

> Now the plot deepens, and our subject turns grave: " Dead ringers "

> actually originated at the race track. To take advantage of the

long

> odds against an inferior horse's winning a race, unscrupulous

> gamblers would substitute a horse of superior ability and similar

> appearance. Nowadays, " dead ringer " means any close look-alike.

>

> Why " ringer " ? Probably because " ringer " was once a slang term for a

> counterfeiter who represented brass rings for gold ones at county

> fairs. And " dead " here means " absolute, exact, " as in " dead heat "

> and " you're dead right. "

>

> Should I even dignify the above explanation of " saved by the bell "

> with a logical explanation. Oh well, here 'tis, and it's just what

> you thought in the first place. " Saved by the bell " is nothing more

> than the obvious -- a reference to the bell signaling the end of a

> round of boxing. No matter what condition a fighter is in during a

> boxing contest, even if he is being counted out, he is saved by the

> bell and gains a reprieve once that bell rings. I do hope that we

> all gain a reprieve from these idiotic spook etymologies that clank

> around the Internet and haunt the proud house of our English

> language.

>

>

> > Re:

> >

> > > ... confusing sayings such as 'raining cats and dogs' - this

one

> has

> > > been used a fair bit, but I certainly do not know why people

say

> it

> > > and fail to see any connection between rain and cats and dogs.

> >

> > For the surprising origins of " raining cats and dogs " and many

> other

> > common expressions, see

> > http://library.thinkquest.org/13681/data/tut/origin.htm

> >

> >

> >

> > Yours for better letters,

> > Kate Gladstone

> > Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> > handwritingrepair@

> > http://learn.to/handwrite,

> http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> > 325 South Manning Boulevard

> > Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> > telephone 518/482-6763

> > AND REMEMBER ...

> > you can order books through my site!

> > (Amazon.com link -

> > I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Your welcome...

greebohere wrote:

> Interesting - I hadn't had chance to look at previous link - glad you

> wrote the below post though. I don't always believe what I read, but

> it is hard to know now what is truth and not with so much info'

> available - thanks for this info' though :-)

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > >

> > Jewish World Review Feb. 20, 2003 / 18 Adar I, 5763

> > Lederer

> >

> > another view...

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Spook etymology on the Internet

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > http://www.NewsAndOpinion.com | Recently, all around the Internet

> > has been sparking an item called " Life in the 1500s. " The color and

> > romance of the word and phrase explanations in the message are as

> > beguiling as can be. But as soon as I opened the messages (sent to

> > me by more than 50 people because I'm on everybody's list), I knew

> > that most of the so-called historical revelations therein were

> false.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Take (please!) this electronic explanation of a common

> meterological

> > phrase: " Houses had thatched roofs. Thick straw, piled high, with

> no

> > wood underneath. It was the only place for animals to get warm, so

> > all the pets -- dogs, cats, mice, rats and bugs -- lived in the

> > roof. When it rained it became slippery and sometimes the animals

> > would slip and fall off the roof. Hence the saying, 'It's raining

> > cats and dogs.' "

> >

> > Dubious. The literal explanation is that during heavy rains in not

> > so Merry Olde England some city streets became raging rivers of

> > filth carrying many dead cats and dogs. But there is also strong

> > evidence that the phrase " it's raining cats and dogs " may not be

> > literal.

> >

> > In the dark Ages, people believed that animals, including cats and

> > dogs, had magical powers. Cats were associated with storms,

> > especially the black cats of witches, while dogs were frequently

> > associated with winds. The Norse storm god Odin was frequently

> shown

> > surrounded by dogs and wolves. So when a particularly violent storm

> > came along, people would say " It's raining cats and dogs, " with the

> > cats symbolizing the rain and the dogs representing the wind and

> > storm. This folkloric explanation is supported by such expressions

> > as " it's raining dogs and polecats " and " it's raining pitchforks. "

> >

> > The e-message continues, " The floor was dirt. Only the wealthy had

> > something other than dirt, hence the saying 'dirt poor.' The

> wealthy

> > had slate floors which would get slippery in the winter when wet.

> So

> > they spread thresh on the floor to help keep their footing. As the

> > winter wore on they kept adding more thresh until when you opened

> > the door, you would all start slipping outside. A piece of wood was

> > placed at the entry way, hence a 'thresh hold.' "

> >

> > Nonsense. " Threshold, " first recorded in the year 1000, descends

> > from an Old English compound " threscold, " " doorsill, point of

> > entry. " The " hold " has nothing to do with keeping one's footing.

> The

> > original meaning of " thresh " was " to tread, to trample. " Farmers

> > originally threshed wheat, separated the grain from the chaff, by

> > treading on piles of it. The treading seemed similar to wiping

> one's

> > feet at the doorway of a house, and that entrance took the

> > name " threshold " from such threshing, or treading.

> >

> > The e-drivel continues flowing: " Sometimes they could obtain pork

> > and would feel really special when that happened. When company came

> > over, they would bring out some bacon and hang it to show it off.

> It

> > was a sign of wealth and that a man 'could really bring home the

> > bacon.' They would cut off a little share with guests and would all

> > sit and 'chew the fat.'

> >

> > Ridiculous. Here the bacon refers to the greased pig that once

> > figured so prominently in American county fairs. The slippery swine

> > was awarded to whoever caught it, and the winner could take (bring)

> > it home.

> >

> > " Chew the fat " is unknown before the American Civil War. One theory

> > contends that sailors working their jaws on the tough salt pork

> > rationed out when supplies ran low constantly grumbled about their

> > poor fare while literally chewing the fat. What seems clear is that

> > chewing the fat, like shooting the breeze, provides little

> > sustenance for the amount of mastication involved.

> >

> > Which is just what happens with jerry-built, jury-rigged

> etymologies.

> >

> > The Greek " etymon " means " true, original, " and the Greek root " -

> > logia " means " science or study. " Thus, etymology is supposed to be

> > the science or study of true and original word meanings.

> >

> > But I have learned that the proud house of etymology is populated

> by

> > all manner of ghoulies and ghosties and long-leggety beasties

> > miscreated by spook etymologists. ( " Spook " reaches back to the

> > Dutch " spooc, " " ghost, specter. " ) These sham scholars would rather

> > invent a word origin after the fact than trace it to its true

> > source. Spooks prefer drama and romance to accuracy and truth.

> >

> > A dramatic example of spook etymology is dragging its chains around

> > the Internet even as I write. " Life in the 1500s " purports to

> > explain all sorts of words and phrases on the basis of life 500

> > years ago. Alas, almost all the etymologies in " Life in the 1500s "

> > are spookily haunted. Some of the most bogus explanations pertain

> to

> > death:

> >

> > " Lead cups were used to drink ale or whiskey, " proclaims the

> > Internet message. " The combination would sometimes knock people out

> > for a couple of days. Someone walking along the road would them for

> > dead and prepare them for burial. They were laid out on the kitchen

> > table for a couple of days and the family would gather around and

> > eat and drink and wait and see if they would wake up. Hence the

> > custom of holding a 'wake.'

> >

> > Folderol! " Wake " descends from the Middle English " wakien, " " to be

> > awake, " and is cognate with the Latin " vigil. " " Wake " simply means,

> > traditionally at least, that someone stays awake all night at the

> > side of the casket on the night before the funeral.

> >

> > Now for the tour de farce of the spook etymologies that clank

> > throughout this e-message: " England is old and small, and they

> > started running out of places to bury people. So, they would dig up

> > coffins and would take their bones to a house and re-use the grave.

> > In reopening these coffins, one out of 25 coffins were found to

> have

> > scratch marks on the inside and they realized they had been burying

> > people alive. So they thought they would tie a string on their

> wrist

> > and lead it through the coffin and up through the ground and tie it

> > to a bell.

> >

> > " Someone would have to sit out in the graveyard all night to listen

> > for the bell. Hence on the 'graveyard shift' they would know that

> > someone was 'saved by the bell' or he was a 'dead ringer.'

> >

> > Complete balderdash!. In factories that work around the clock,

> > employees report for work at 8 a.m. for the " regular " or " day "

> > shift; at 4 p.m. for the " swing " or " night " shift; and at midnight

> > for the " graveyard " shift, lasting until 8 a.m. According to Harold

> > Wentworth and Stuart Berg Flexner's Dictionary of American Slang,

> > the name " graveyard shift " refers to " the ghostlike hour of

> > employment " -- and nothing more.

> >

> > Now the plot deepens, and our subject turns grave: " Dead ringers "

> > actually originated at the race track. To take advantage of the

> long

> > odds against an inferior horse's winning a race, unscrupulous

> > gamblers would substitute a horse of superior ability and similar

> > appearance. Nowadays, " dead ringer " means any close look-alike.

> >

> > Why " ringer " ? Probably because " ringer " was once a slang term for a

> > counterfeiter who represented brass rings for gold ones at county

> > fairs. And " dead " here means " absolute, exact, " as in " dead heat "

> > and " you're dead right. "

> >

> > Should I even dignify the above explanation of " saved by the bell "

> > with a logical explanation. Oh well, here 'tis, and it's just what

> > you thought in the first place. " Saved by the bell " is nothing more

> > than the obvious -- a reference to the bell signaling the end of a

> > round of boxing. No matter what condition a fighter is in during a

> > boxing contest, even if he is being counted out, he is saved by the

> > bell and gains a reprieve once that bell rings. I do hope that we

> > all gain a reprieve from these idiotic spook etymologies that clank

> > around the Internet and haunt the proud house of our English

> > language.

> >

> >

> > > Re:

> > >

> > > > ... confusing sayings such as 'raining cats and dogs' - this

> one

> > has

> > > > been used a fair bit, but I certainly do not know why people

> say

> > it

> > > > and fail to see any connection between rain and cats and dogs.

> > >

> > > For the surprising origins of " raining cats and dogs " and many

> > other

> > > common expressions, see

> > > http://library.thinkquest.org/13681/data/tut/origin.htm

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Yours for better letters,

> > > Kate Gladstone

> > > Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> > > handwritingrepair@

> > > http://learn.to/handwrite,

> > http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> > > 325 South Manning Boulevard

> > > Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> > > telephone 518/482-6763

> > > AND REMEMBER ...

> > > you can order books through my site!

> > > (Amazon.com link -

> > > I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

> support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

>

> Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in

> the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

>

>

>

>