[OT] Detox, Rashes, KT and Water

[Guest guest]

I'm a good girl and drink lots of water. Although our tap water is pretty

good, I'm a bit fussy about the taste. I use a Britta filter, the filtered

water and my taste buds are happy with each other. My experience has nothing

to do with proper hydration.

Shortly after I started drinking Kombucha I developed a rash along my jaw,

neck, back and chest. If I properly recall the itchy rash traveled down my

legs and settled around my ankles. I showed the rash to my husband who for

over 20 years has practiced medicine (IDC) in the US Navy, he was puzzled

and asked if I was using a new soap or lotion. The light went on!

At that same time I started drinking greater amounts of my home-brew KT, I

began a new regime of vinegar as a hair rinse and facial toner (I will

smear, dab, spray and splash just about anything on my body in search of the

fountain of youth)

Well I wasn't about to tell Mr. Senior Chief Navy Doc that.... heck no! So I

lied by responding with a slow and thoughtful " Noooo, not that I can think

of " .

I kept drinking the KT and stopped the vinegar treatments and after quite a

few days the rash subsided and then finally went away.

Not being able to resist the prospect of hair like spun gold and skin like a

beauty queen I have returned to the vinegar regime with no side effects (If

you don't count smelling like salad for a few hours) and no rashes.

Was it detox... reaction to vinegar... or something else....

My Doc/hubby would say vinegar

My Kombucha Guru girlfriend would say detox

I dunno, I think it's prudent to not begin two new programs at once, because

you can't identify which new regime caused the good/bad reaction you may be

experiencing.

BTW (Hubby cracked up at your toxin monologue)

Just my penny thoughts - nothing more.

Cheers

Dove

* " The difference between the almost right word & the right word is...the

difference between the lightning bug and the lightning. "

—Mark Twain *

[Guest guest]

I have tried to read all the post regarding to drink water or not, and it still

seems like the recent election gossip. I do appreciate Doveys reply which helps

me decide. But maybe I was expecting more when I joined this group. The intro to

the group read in part

" ... There are some very experienced brewers of Kombucha on this list and

Kombucha researchers and authors as well. .. "

and I was hoping to hear from at least one of those.

- any experts here?

[OT] Detox, Rashes, KT and Water

I'm a good girl and drink lots of water. Although our tap water is pretty

good, I'm a bit fussy about the taste. I use a Britta filter, the filtered

water and my taste buds are happy with each other. My experience has nothing

to do with proper hydration.

Shortly after I started drinking Kombucha I developed a rash along my jaw,

neck, back and chest. If I properly recall the itchy rash traveled down my

legs and settled around my ankles. I showed the rash to my husband who for

over 20 years has practiced medicine (IDC) in the US Navy, he was puzzled

and asked if I was using a new soap or lotion. The light went on!

At that same time I started drinking greater amounts of my home-brew KT, I

began a new regime of vinegar as a hair rinse and facial toner (I will

smear, dab, spray and splash just about anything on my body in search of the

fountain of youth)

Well I wasn't about to tell Mr. Senior Chief Navy Doc that.... heck no! So I

lied by responding with a slow and thoughtful " Noooo, not that I can think

of " .

I kept drinking the KT and stopped the vinegar treatments and after quite a

few days the rash subsided and then finally went away.

Not being able to resist the prospect of hair like spun gold and skin like a

beauty queen I have returned to the vinegar regime with no side effects (If

you don't count smelling like salad for a few hours) and no rashes.

Was it detox... reaction to vinegar... or something else....

My Doc/hubby would say vinegar

My Kombucha Guru girlfriend would say detox

I dunno, I think it's prudent to not begin two new programs at once, because

you can't identify which new regime caused the good/bad reaction you may be

experiencing.

BTW (Hubby cracked up at your toxin monologue)

Just my penny thoughts - nothing more.

Cheers

Dove

* " The difference between the almost right word & the right word is...the

difference between the lightning bug and the lightning. "

—Mark Twain *

[Guest guest]

> I have tried to read all the post regarding to drink water

> or not, and it still seems like the recent election

> gossip. I do appreciate Doveys reply which helps me

> decide. But maybe I was expecting more when I joined this

> group. The intro to the group read in part

Many of the people who've responded to this question thus

far _are_ experts. The thing is, your question isn't

entirely possible to answer in an unbiased fashion, as it

hinges directly on one of the more controversial (and --

revealing my bias -- not sufficiently demonstrable to

convince some of us *grin*) claims regarding kombucha:

detox.

There are two major camps:

- lots of water is essential because you'll be detoxing, and

water will help it go faster, more smoothly, etc. - no more

water than normal is necessary

You've heard the experiences of several of us who drank (or

routinely drink) large quantities of kombucha with little or

no liquid in addition to what we'd normally drink, and we've

seen no problems. You've heard the opinions of several

experts on the " more water " and " no more than normal water "

sides. The fact of the matter is it still comes down to

primary information, unfortunately: it's not established.

My opinion -- based on my experience, the experience of

quite a few others on the group, and my own reading as to

the reality of a " detox " promoted by kombucha, is that

you'll derive no particular benefit -- beyond the normal

benefit of drinking enough water -- from increasing your

water consumption while drinking kombucha.

Of course, few of us drink as much as we ought to anyway.

Someone earlier stated a rule of thumb: one ounce per two

pounds of body weight. If you go by that, you should be

fine. (Kombucha counts towards that intake, as do almost any

beverages with a lower caffeine concentration than straight

espresso:

http://www.ific.org/foodinsight/2002/ja/caffdehydnbfi402.cfm

http://www.teasetc.com/tea/article.asp?ID=52 & Name=Tea+and+Hydration).

[Guest guest]

Go to the polls and see if that helps.

kombucha tea/polls

Sunny

>

> I have tried to read all the post regarding to drink water or not,

and it still seems like the recent election gossip. I do appreciate

Doveys reply which helps me decide. But maybe I was expecting more

when I joined this group. The intro to the group read in part

>

> " ... There are some very experienced brewers of Kombucha on this

list and Kombucha researchers and authors as well. .. "

> and I was hoping to hear from at least one of those.

>

> - any experts here?

>

>

>

>

> [OT] Detox, Rashes, KT and Water

>

> I'm a good girl and drink lots of water. Although our tap water is

pretty

> good, I'm a bit fussy about the taste. I use a Britta filter, the

filtered

> water and my taste buds are happy with each other. My experience has

nothing

> to do with proper hydration.

>

> Shortly after I started drinking Kombucha I developed a rash along

my jaw,

> neck, back and chest. If I properly recall the itchy rash traveled

down my

> legs and settled around my ankles. I showed the rash to my husband

who for

> over 20 years has practiced medicine (IDC) in the US Navy, he was

puzzled

> and asked if I was using a new soap or lotion. The light went on!

> At that same time I started drinking greater amounts of my home-brew

KT, I

> began a new regime of vinegar as a hair rinse and facial toner (I will

> smear, dab, spray and splash just about anything on my body in

search of the

> fountain of youth)

> Well I wasn't about to tell Mr. Senior Chief Navy Doc that.... heck

no! So I

> lied by responding with a slow and thoughtful " Noooo, not that I can

think

> of " .

> I kept drinking the KT and stopped the vinegar treatments and after

quite a

> few days the rash subsided and then finally went away.

>

> Not being able to resist the prospect of hair like spun gold and

skin like a

> beauty queen I have returned to the vinegar regime with no side

effects (If

> you don't count smelling like salad for a few hours) and no rashes.

>

> Was it detox... reaction to vinegar... or something else....

> My Doc/hubby would say vinegar

> My Kombucha Guru girlfriend would say detox

>

> I dunno, I think it's prudent to not begin two new programs at once,

because

> you can't identify which new regime caused the good/bad reaction you

may be

> experiencing.

>

> BTW (Hubby cracked up at your toxin monologue)

>

> Just my penny thoughts - nothing more.

> Cheers

> Dove

>

> * " The difference between the almost right word & the right word is...the

> difference between the lightning bug and the lightning. "

> —Mark Twain *

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Good point . Water is good for you, Kombucha aside. It's a pretty pointless

argument since each person needs to make up their own mind of what is best for

themselves. We're not experts... some are experienced... some are just beginning

this experience...

Re: [OT] Detox, Rashes, KT and Water

> I have tried to read all the post regarding to drink water

> or not, and it still seems like the recent election

> gossip. I do appreciate Doveys reply which helps me

> decide. But maybe I was expecting more when I joined this

> group. The intro to the group read in part

Many of the people who've responded to this question thus

far _are_ experts. The thing is, your question isn't

entirely possible to answer in an unbiased fashion, as it

hinges directly on one of the more controversial (and --

revealing my bias -- not sufficiently demonstrable to

convince some of us *grin*) claims regarding kombucha:

detox.

There are two major camps:

- lots of water is essential because you'll be detoxing, and

water will help it go faster, more smoothly, etc. - no more

water than normal is necessary

You've heard the experiences of several of us who drank (or

routinely drink) large quantities of kombucha with little or

no liquid in addition to what we'd normally drink, and we've

seen no problems. You've heard the opinions of several

experts on the " more water " and " no more than normal water "

sides. The fact of the matter is it still comes down to

primary information, unfortunately: it's not established.

My opinion -- based on my experience, the experience of

quite a few others on the group, and my own reading as to

the reality of a " detox " promoted by kombucha, is that

you'll derive no particular benefit -- beyond the normal

benefit of drinking enough water -- from increasing your

water consumption while drinking kombucha.

Of course, few of us drink as much as we ought to anyway.

Someone earlier stated a rule of thumb: one ounce per two

pounds of body weight. If you go by that, you should be

fine. (Kombucha counts towards that intake, as do almost any

beverages with a lower caffeine concentration than straight

espresso:

http://www.ific.org/foodinsight/2002/ja/caffdehydnbfi402.cfm

http://www.teasetc.com/tea/article.asp?ID=52 & Name=Tea+and+Hydration).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Checked by AVG.

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7:27 PM

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message ----

From: <leslie10157@...>

kombucha tea

" ............. There are some very experienced brewers of Kombucha on

this list and Kombucha researchers and authors as well. .. "

and I was hoping to hear from at least one of

those.....................

,

There are many who purport to be, I do not. I also have a habit of getting

" Foot-in-mouth disease " quite a lot and leaping in B 4 I've read ALL relevant

posts.

Having said that........

Kombucha is not a science (As discussed recently) Ask 10 when it's best to drink

and, chances are you'll get at least 6 answers if not 10. Some will say " At pH

Soanso. " some, like myself say " When it tastes right to you. "

Some will say drink at least twice as much water as KT, some, like me say I

drink water if I know I'm dehydrating, one says 2oz/pound body wt/day.

If you get a definitive answer I'll be gob-smacked but and here's the curious

thing.... It doesn't matter all that much so long as you don't poison yourself

and I doubt that's likely.

{¦;¬)}}}

N. England.

[Guest guest]

I might have missed a few of your posts so I will ask some question here:

What is your interest in Kombucha?. It appears from your last post that you

drink it..

Why do you consume it?

What brought you to consume it?

I do accompany my consumption of KT, with a good amount of water. It is a very

wise idea to drink a good quantity of water anyway, you have wisely pointed it:

most of us do not drink enough water anyway. It seems that you consume KT KT

without upping your water intake, with no apparent side effect, i will try to

add this ...so far... or it could be never, it would take a good amount of time

to research it scientifically... Since there seems to be an absence of such long

term study, I stick to the " consensus " and the advices of my naturopath which is

to increase my water intake when (and since) I am taking KT on a quasi-daily

basis... I have come to understand that it takes time for many diseases to

develop, the body does not always react in a immediate or linear fashion... Some

people drink gallons of alcoholic beverage for many years as their only source

of water and seem quite healthy doing so. I personally know a person who

consumed at the very least 24 to 36 cans of

beer every day! This person has now reduced dramatically the consumption to 12

cans a day and is relatively well at 75 years of age and almost 40 years of

taking such large quantity of alcohol... I am not sure I would recommend such a

hydration protocol to anyone ...

As for detoxing, it appears that you do not BELIEVE in the concept... which is

fine with me , it is an opinion and you are certainly entitled to yours however

contrary to the general forum bias, it might be; or I could be entirely wrong on

this in which case you will correct me. My personal experience is that there is

a process of elimination of certain waste and byproducts.. Things that are best

to be out of our bodies. This elimination process if helped by KT in my

experience and I believe this has been scientifically established , notice I

said I believe, I do not have much time beside taking the time to write this

post to point you toward the research or any links.. It is also helped by

increasing water intake....

I personally welcome your posts and you should continue to post them. I must

admit that sometimes they come in a way that some including me, find pompous and

condescending. I must reiterate that I sincerely welcome them regardless..

Challenges to popular or long held beliefs can either invigorate or invalidate

these so ... Life is dynamism the more we are challenged the more we evolve...

Frantz

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

,

I think part of the confusion is that KT is not a medication...it is a

fermented food/beverage. There are no hard and fast rules beyond the

fact that sweetened tea and a starter culture or finished KT are

needed to brew a batch. Different sugar sources, different teas,

different flavoring additions, the amount of any of these and length

of brewing time are all individual choices because you work to create

a beverage that tastes good to you. I may prefer mine bottled at 7

days...another person at 12 days...both are Kombucha and both are good

for you...

As for water consumption again this is a personal choice. I have a

difficult time consuming plain water because I simply don't like the

taste even if it is filtered through the best filter known to man. So

I probably don't drink nearly the amount of water that most of the

folks on this list do. My personal experience has been that some days

I can drink all the KT I want and little water and no reaction. Other

days even a little bit of KT creates what is typically termed a " detox

reaction " . I have had the same reaction occur when taking herbs that

are meant to cleanse the body. My reactions are typically

mild...headache...a bit of itchiness...off taste in my mouth. All of

these reactions are usually resolved quickly by drinking an increased

amount of water. I have also noted that the reactions are more likely

to happen when I have been consuming more medications or crappy food

than usual. So that being said, I think it all depends upon how your

body responds to the KT. Some people may need to drink a lot of water

with their KT...some may not. My suggestion is to experiment and see

what works for you.

On 3/11/08, <leslie10157@...> wrote:

> I have tried to read all the post regarding to drink water or not, and it

> still seems like the recent election gossip. I do appreciate Doveys reply

> which helps me decide. But maybe I was expecting more when I joined this

> group. The intro to the group read in part

>

> " ... There are some very experienced brewers of Kombucha on this list and

> Kombucha researchers and authors as well. .. "

> and I was hoping to hear from at least one of those.

>

> - any experts here?

>

>

--

Live and Love Well,

Sandy (Jennings, FL; zone 8b)

[Guest guest]

> Some will say drink at least twice as much water as KT, some, like

me say I drink water if I know I'm dehydrating, one says 2oz/pound

body wt/day.

> If you get a definitive answer I'll be gob-smacked but and here's

the curious thing.... It doesn't matter all that much so long as you

don't poison yourself and I doubt that's likely.

You're right, ..there are a lot of differing opinions and we must

surely hydrate enough not to poison ourselves. I would, however

correct the formula to read 1 oz/2 pounds body wt/day. That will keep

you less likely to spend most of your day in the rest room.

Anita

[Guest guest]

> What is your interest in Kombucha?. It appears from your

> last post that you drink it.. Why do you consume it?

It's healthy and tasty. There's a large supply of vitamins

in it (especially the B complex), some amount of

antioxidants in excess of those naturally present in the

tea, and -- as long as it's not filtered -- a

more-than-miniscule amount of protein.

> What brought you to consume it?

Interest in probiotics and " culinary microbiology " . I make

yoghurt and kefir as well, and would make miso if I could

track down raw soybeans and a starter culture . . . *grin*

> I do accompany my consumption of KT, with a good amount of

> water. It is a very wise idea to drink a good quantity of

> water anyway, you have wisely pointed it: most of us do

> not drink enough water anyway. It seems that you consume

> KT KT without upping your water intake, with no apparent

> side effect, i will try to add this ...so far... or it

> could be never, it would take a good amount of time to

> research it scientifically... Since there seems to be an

> absence of such long term study, I stick to the

> " consensus " and the advices of my naturopath which is to

> increase my water intake when (and since) I am taking KT

> on a quasi-daily basis... I have come to understand that

> it takes time for many diseases to develop, the body does

> not always react in a immediate or linear fashion...

If I believed that kombucha acted as a drug, I would say

such a regimen would be appropriate. As I've found no

evidence that there's any benefit beyond its vitamin content

(from what I've been able to dig up, it appears that

kombucha microbiota do not survive the stomach to enter the

intestines as do lactofermenters in kefir and yoghurt).

> As for detoxing, it appears that you do not BELIEVE in the

> concept.

Correct.

> My personal experience is that there is a process of

> elimination of certain waste and byproducts. Things that

> are best to be out of our bodies.

Well, there's a bit of a semantic difference there. The

liver, kidneys, and skin indeed make up the natural

detoxification and excretion pathway. The mechanism by which

this takes place is well-understood.

" Detox " as used in alternative health is a different concept

making use of the medical term. " Detox " theorizes (roughly)

that certain substances or treatments can effect wholesale

removal of undefined " toxic " substances from the body. The

major problem with this is that there's no qualitative

difference between a " toxic " substance and a " non-toxic "

substance, so no general regimen could differentiate and

remove only toxic substances.

They either must make use of the existing pathways --

increasing urine or sweat volume (removing much more in the

way of beneficial electrolytes than toxic substances) -- or

pure snake oil. The first can be dangerous, which is why I'm

opposed to it. The second (things like " Aqua Detox " or

things that claim to preferentially release toxic compounds

from body fat) cheat well-meaning folks out of their money,

which is why I'm opposed to them. Neither has the effect of

removing more toxic substances from the body than non-toxic,

or possibly of removing any toxic substances at all.

> This elimination process is helped by KT in my experience

Such claims I'm skeptical of (nothing personal), as neither

I nor anyone else has means to know of sense toxins leaving

the body. Chemical tests or sweat or urine would be

necessary to determine if toxins are indeed being

eliminated.

> and I believe this has been scientifically established

Actually, when blinded studies have been done, they've found

no difference in urine or sweat composition.

See review: http://tinyurl.com/yq9luw

The major studies on kombucha have actually shown that

glucuronic acid (the purported liver-detox booster) is not

present in most strains of kombucha.

http://tinyurl.com/25zgth http://tinyurl.com/yrm8ef

> It is also helped by increasing water intake.

Which is another reason I drink it. *grin* I generally get

an extra couple pints of water a day through my KT that I

would otherwise probably not drink.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/11/2008 9:19:53 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

leslie10157@... writes:

- any experts here?

I am far from an expert regarding Kombucha. But my theory is that NO ONE

can tell YOU how much water to drink. Listen to your body. If one is

retaining fluid then one needs to drink more water. If one is thirsty then the

body

is asking for more water. If the diet is higher in fiber, then more water

would be to your advantage. If you have any kind of unusual medical condition,

then consult your physician or health care expert. And remember, water

means water. Water does not mean Kombucha (or any other kind of tea), coffee,

soda, juice or milk - which is a solid anyway. I personally drink at least

three quarts of water each day. It is harder in the wintertime when it is

cold,

so sometimes I drink it warm. I have FMS and OA so it is important for me

to keep well hydrated. I think you will find plenty of experts on Kombucha on

this list, but not necessarily experts on your water needs.

Pam in ID

**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &

Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)

[Guest guest]

So far the opinion on this is 1). YES drink water and 2).NO need to drink water.

Why would a a expert, who writes a book on kombucha, put it in a book if it

really didn't matter --- and please do not answer that as its not a question!

I have joined this list in the hopes on getting EXPERT ADVICE from those " on

this list and Kombucha researchers and authors as well. .. "

And y'know I would prefer to know FIRST before I get a rash. or before I offer

it to a friend who then gets a rash!

I have read about glucronic acid (spelling) and at least there is research pro /

con BUT no negatrive effect to worry about. So if it has it or dosn't is not a

concern. There is gluconic acid in kombucha and that is recognized as the

detoxing factor (heavy metal chealator), so is it that that may casue problems?

Re: [OT] Detox, Rashes, KT and Water

> I have tried to read all the post regarding to drink water

> or not, and it still seems like the recent election

> gossip. I do appreciate Doveys reply which helps me

> decide. But maybe I was expecting more when I joined this

> group. The intro to the group read in part

Many of the people who've responded to this question thus

far _are_ experts. The thing is, your question isn't

entirely possible to answer in an unbiased fashion, as it

hinges directly on one of the more controversial (and --

revealing my bias -- not sufficiently demonstrable to

convince some of us *grin*) claims regarding kombucha:

detox.

There are two major camps:

- lots of water is essential because you'll be detoxing, and

water will help it go faster, more smoothly, etc. - no more

water than normal is necessary

You've heard the experiences of several of us who drank (or

routinely drink) large quantities of kombucha with little or

no liquid in addition to what we'd normally drink, and we've

seen no problems. You've heard the opinions of several

experts on the " more water " and " no more than normal water "

sides. The fact of the matter is it still comes down to

primary information, unfortunately: it's not established.

My opinion -- based on my experience, the experience of

quite a few others on the group, and my own reading as to

the reality of a " detox " promoted by kombucha, is that

you'll derive no particular benefit -- beyond the normal

benefit of drinking enough water -- from increasing your

water consumption while drinking kombucha.

Of course, few of us drink as much as we ought to anyway.

Someone earlier stated a rule of thumb: one ounce per two

pounds of body weight. If you go by that, you should be

fine. (Kombucha counts towards that intake, as do almost any

beverages with a lower caffeine concentration than straight

espresso:

http://www.ific. org/foodinsight/ 2002/ja/caffdehy dnbfi402. cfm

http://www.teasetc. com/tea/article. asp?ID=52 & Name=Tea+ and+Hydration).

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

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PM

[Guest guest]

> BTW (Hubby cracked up at your toxin monologue)

Glad he liked it. . . *grin*

[Guest guest]

> I have joined this list in the hopes on getting EXPERT

> ADVICE from those " on this list and Kombucha researchers

> and authors as well. .. "

I'm sorry we've disappointed you. As you know, no field has

all points completely established, and even experts will

have differing opinions on some things.

> And y'know I would prefer to know FIRST before I get a

> rash. or before I offer it to a friend who then gets a

> rash!

You've nothing to lose by drinking extra water, as long as

you don't go too far beyond 1/32 (1 ounce per two pounds) of

your body weight total fluid consumption per day without

providing additional electrolytes through Gatorade or

similar beverages.

> There is gluconic acid in kombucha and that is recognized

> as the detoxing factor (heavy metal chealator), so is it

> that that may casue problems?

In theory, too much kombucha could result in chelation of

essential calcium, magnesium, and iron ions. In practice,

there's too little gluconic acid to cause that effect before

you were suffering from hyperhydration.

30g/L is about the most you'd see (i.e.

http://www.happyherbalist.com/analysis_of_kombucha.htm), and

the LD50 in rats is somewhere around 10g/kg

(http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/Msds/58489.htm). It's so

water-soluble that you're unlikely to maintain much of a

serum concentration of it. That'd require drinking five

gallons of kombucha quickly to have 50% chance of dying from

gluconic acid poisoning. Water intoxication would be more of

a problem.

[Guest guest]

, Your answer (you have nothing to lose by drinking ....)

applies to everything. BUT does it specifically apply to kombucha?

gluconic acid poisoning? not likely ever, but if it pulled calcium

from your body - not likely in a healthy individual, but that is why

I am asking for an expert or someone knowledgable in kombucha or for

that author who wrote that one should begin drinking kombucha slowly

and to drink water. Thus far no expertt opinions ...

>

> > I have joined this list in the hopes on getting EXPERT

> > ADVICE from those " on this list and Kombucha researchers

> > and authors as well. .. "

>

> I'm sorry we've disappointed you. As you know, no field has

> all points completely established, and even experts will

> have differing opinions on some things.

>

> > And y'know I would prefer to know FIRST before I get a

> > rash. or before I offer it to a friend who then gets a

> > rash!

>

> You've nothing to lose by drinking extra water, as long as

> you don't go too far beyond 1/32 (1 ounce per two pounds) of

> your body weight total fluid consumption per day without

> providing additional electrolytes through Gatorade or

> similar beverages.

>

> > There is gluconic acid in kombucha and that is recognized

> > as the detoxing factor (heavy metal chealator), so is it

> > that that may casue problems?

>

> In theory, too much kombucha could result in chelation of

> essential calcium, magnesium, and iron ions. In practice,

> there's too little gluconic acid to cause that effect before

> you were suffering from hyperhydration.

>

> 30g/L is about the most you'd see (i.e.

> http://www.happyherbalist.com/analysis_of_kombucha.htm), and

> the LD50 in rats is somewhere around 10g/kg

> (http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/Msds/58489.htm). It's so

> water-soluble that you're unlikely to maintain much of a

> serum concentration of it. That'd require drinking five

> gallons of kombucha quickly to have 50% chance of dying from

> gluconic acid poisoning. Water intoxication would be more of

> a problem.

>

[Guest guest]

Out of curiosity.

What would you define as an expert? Just so we can make sure only those

people are responding?

Caitilin

On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 3:07 AM, leslie10157 <leslie10157@...> wrote:

> , Your answer (you have nothing to lose by drinking ....)

> applies to everything. BUT does it specifically apply to kombucha?

>

> gluconic acid poisoning? not likely ever, but if it pulled calcium

> from your body - not likely in a healthy individual, but that is why

> I am asking for an expert or someone knowledgable in kombucha or for

> that author who wrote that one should begin drinking kombucha slowly

> and to drink water. Thus far no expertt opinions ...

>

>

>

>

> >

> > > I have joined this list in the hopes on getting EXPERT

> > > ADVICE from those " on this list and Kombucha researchers

> > > and authors as well. .. "

> >

> > I'm sorry we've disappointed you. As you know, no field has

> > all points completely established, and even experts will

> > have differing opinions on some things.

> >

> > > And y'know I would prefer to know FIRST before I get a

> > > rash. or before I offer it to a friend who then gets a

> > > rash!

> >

> > You've nothing to lose by drinking extra water, as long as

> > you don't go too far beyond 1/32 (1 ounce per two pounds) of

> > your body weight total fluid consumption per day without

> > providing additional electrolytes through Gatorade or

> > similar beverages.

> >

> > > There is gluconic acid in kombucha and that is recognized

> > > as the detoxing factor (heavy metal chealator), so is it

> > > that that may casue problems?

> >

> > In theory, too much kombucha could result in chelation of

> > essential calcium, magnesium, and iron ions. In practice,

> > there's too little gluconic acid to cause that effect before

> > you were suffering from hyperhydration.

> >

> > 30g/L is about the most you'd see (i.e.

> > http://www.happyherbalist.com/analysis_of_kombucha.htm), and

> > the LD50 in rats is somewhere around 10g/kg

> > (http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/Msds/58489.htm). It's so

> > water-soluble that you're unlikely to maintain much of a

> > serum concentration of it. That'd require drinking five

> > gallons of kombucha quickly to have 50% chance of dying from

> > gluconic acid poisoning. Water intoxication would be more of

> > a problem.

> >

>

>

>

--

livejournal: http://wildchildcait.livejournal.com

St drove the snakes out of Ireland. Caitilin drove them back!

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I think you may have missed the " moral of my story " which started this

tangled thread....

I pretty much was drenching myself in vinegar when I started drinking

my KT in larger quantities. I didn't stop drinking or reduce the

amount of KT I was drinking, I stopped dousing myself with vinegar and

the rash went away.

I didn't start drinking more water, I already drink proper amounts of

water, I stopped baptizing my 54 year old body in vinegar and the rash

went away.

Lesson:

Not always, but oft times something in our personal environment,

unrelated to KT, may be the cause of the rash that is interpreted as

detoxification caused by drinking Kombucha Tonic/Tea.

At the end of the day; everyone could probably benefit for drinking

more water, it's the mantra of most caregivers " Drink more water " .

I am not an expert, I've written no books and I don't work in the

holistic health industry.

I'm not sure what author you are talking about, but if you know the

name of the book I think you could probably Google it and find her

website and contact her directly. I would love it if you would share

her response here.

Regards

Dove

--

It's not easy being a locavore

[Guest guest]

PS

I think your author's name is Betsy Pryor and her email address is

Laurelfrms@...

Cheers

On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 8:12 AM, Dovey <doveyc@...> wrote:

> Hi ,

> I think you may have missed the " moral of my story " which started this

> tangled thread....

> I pretty much was drenching myself in vinegar when I started drinking

> my KT in larger quantities. I didn't stop drinking or reduce the

> amount of KT I was drinking, I stopped dousing myself with vinegar and

> the rash went away.

> I didn't start drinking more water, I already drink proper amounts of

> water, I stopped baptizing my 54 year old body in vinegar and the rash

> went away.

>

> Lesson:

> Not always, but oft times something in our personal environment,

> unrelated to KT, may be the cause of the rash that is interpreted as

> detoxification caused by drinking Kombucha Tonic/Tea.

>

> At the end of the day; everyone could probably benefit for drinking

> more water, it's the mantra of most caregivers " Drink more water " .

>

> I am not an expert, I've written no books and I don't work in the

> holistic health industry.

>

> I'm not sure what author you are talking about, but if you know the

> name of the book I think you could probably Google it and find her

> website and contact her directly. I would love it if you would share

> her response here.

>

> Regards

> Dove

--

It's not easy being a locavore

[Guest guest]

LOL. I was thinking the same thing.

Re: [OT] Detox, Rashes, KT and Water

Out of curiosity.

What would you define as an expert? Just so we can make sure only those

people are responding?

Caitilin

On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 3:07 AM, leslie10157 <leslie10157@...> wrote:

> , Your answer (you have nothing to lose by drinking ....)

> applies to everything. BUT does it specifically apply to kombucha?

>

> gluconic acid poisoning? not likely ever, but if it pulled calcium

> from your body - not likely in a healthy individual, but that is why

> I am asking for an expert or someone knowledgable in kombucha or for

> that author who wrote that one should begin drinking kombucha slowly

> and to drink water. Thus far no expertt opinions ...

>

>

>

>

> >

> > > I have joined this list in the hopes on getting EXPERT

> > > ADVICE from those " on this list and Kombucha researchers

> > > and authors as well. .. "

> >

> > I'm sorry we've disappointed you. As you know, no field has

> > all points completely established, and even experts will

> > have differing opinions on some things.

> >

> > > And y'know I would prefer to know FIRST before I get a

> > > rash. or before I offer it to a friend who then gets a

> > > rash!

> >

> > You've nothing to lose by drinking extra water, as long as

> > you don't go too far beyond 1/32 (1 ounce per two pounds) of

> > your body weight total fluid consumption per day without

> > providing additional electrolytes through Gatorade or

> > similar beverages.

> >

> > > There is gluconic acid in kombucha and that is recognized

> > > as the detoxing factor (heavy metal chealator), so is it

> > > that that may casue problems?

> >

> > In theory, too much kombucha could result in chelation of

> > essential calcium, magnesium, and iron ions. In practice,

> > there's too little gluconic acid to cause that effect before

> > you were suffering from hyperhydration.

> >

> > 30g/L is about the most you'd see (i.e.

> > http://www.happyherbalist.com/analysis_of_kombucha.htm), and

> > the LD50 in rats is somewhere around 10g/kg

> > (http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/Msds/58489.htm). It's so

> > water-soluble that you're unlikely to maintain much of a

> > serum concentration of it. That'd require drinking five

> > gallons of kombucha quickly to have 50% chance of dying from

> > gluconic acid poisoning. Water intoxication would be more of

> > a problem.

> >

>

>

>

--

livejournal: http://wildchildcait.livejournal.com

St drove the snakes out of Ireland. Caitilin drove them back!

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

> Out of curiosity.

> What would you define as an expert? Just so we can make sure only those

> people are responding?

Let's give Bev an honorary Ph.D. in Kombuchaology . . . then she'll

qualify. *grin*

[Guest guest]

erm..I have to say i'm principally objecting to anyone getting honorary

degrees as I feel that if you go to uni and study you deserve them and to

'give' them to footballers and the like who have ..well, footballed, is

diminishing the effort the students have put in, imho.

Real world knowledge and academic knowledge are two entirely different

beasties, and while one is often overvalued, the other is often undervalued.

I wish people would respect it a lot more, but I'm not in favour of

awarding academic rewards for a real world principal. I don't think its

appropriate

Cheers

Caitilin

On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Beckman <sehrgut@...>

wrote:

>

> >

> >

> >

> > Out of curiosity.

> > What would you define as an expert? Just so we can make sure only those

> > people are responding?

>

> Let's give Bev an honorary Ph.D. in Kombuchaology . . . then she'll

> qualify. *grin*

>

>

>

--

livejournal: http://wildchildcait.livejournal.com

St drove the snakes out of Ireland. Caitilin drove them back!

[Guest guest]

>

> erm..I have to say i'm principally objecting to anyone

> getting honorary degrees as I feel that if you go to uni

> and study you deserve them and to 'give' them to

> footballers and the like who have ..well, footballed, is

> diminishing the effort the students have put in, imho.

*grin* I totally agree. As long as it's taking me to get

mine . . . *sigh*

> Real world knowledge and academic knowledge are two

> entirely different beasties, and while one is often

> overvalued, the other is often undervalued. I wish people

> would respect it a lot more, but I'm not in favour of

> awarding academic rewards for a real world principal. I

> don't think its appropriate

For the record, I was being facetious . . . I'm just not

sure what credentials 's looking for in an answer-er .

.. .

[Guest guest]

What do you expect and what do you consider an expert?

<leslie10157@...> wrote:

I have tried to read all the post regarding to drink water or not, and it

still seems like the recent election gossip. I do appreciate Doveys reply which

helps me decide. But maybe I was expecting more when I joined this group. The

intro to the group read in part

" ... There are some very experienced brewers of Kombucha on this list and

Kombucha researchers and authors as well. .. "

and I was hoping to hear from at least one of those.

- any experts here?

[OT] Detox, Rashes, KT and Water

I'm a good girl and drink lots of water. Although our tap water is pretty

good, I'm a bit fussy about the taste. I use a Britta filter, the filtered

water and my taste buds are happy with each other. My experience has nothing

to do with proper hydration.

Shortly after I started drinking Kombucha I developed a rash along my jaw,

neck, back and chest. If I properly recall the itchy rash traveled down my

legs and settled around my ankles. I showed the rash to my husband who for

over 20 years has practiced medicine (IDC) in the US Navy, he was puzzled

and asked if I was using a new soap or lotion. The light went on!

At that same time I started drinking greater amounts of my home-brew KT, I

began a new regime of vinegar as a hair rinse and facial toner (I will

smear, dab, spray and splash just about anything on my body in search of the

fountain of youth)

Well I wasn't about to tell Mr. Senior Chief Navy Doc that.... heck no! So I

lied by responding with a slow and thoughtful " Noooo, not that I can think

of " .

I kept drinking the KT and stopped the vinegar treatments and after quite a

few days the rash subsided and then finally went away.

Not being able to resist the prospect of hair like spun gold and skin like a

beauty queen I have returned to the vinegar regime with no side effects (If

you don't count smelling like salad for a few hours) and no rashes.

Was it detox... reaction to vinegar... or something else....

My Doc/hubby would say vinegar

My Kombucha Guru girlfriend would say detox

I dunno, I think it's prudent to not begin two new programs at once, because

you can't identify which new regime caused the good/bad reaction you may be

experiencing.

BTW (Hubby cracked up at your toxin monologue)

Just my penny thoughts - nothing more.

Cheers

Dove

* " The difference between the almost right word & the right word is...the

difference between the lightning bug and the lightning. "

—Mark Twain *

[Guest guest]

, how would you know an expert opinion when you saw one? How are you

arriving at your judgment of expertise on kombucha if you are not a kombucha

brewer or drinker? What is it that you really want to know, or maybe another

way of talking about this would be, what is it you are afraid of in regard to

kombucha, that you can trust no experienced folk, but must keep insisting on

some elusive " expert " to address your issues.. . . .respectfully, Norma Pirie

[Guest guest]

, as far as your statement below regarding what this group was about and

who was in it. It is what it says it is and NOTHING more, you mustn't read into

that. It states that their are some " very experienced brewers and researchers "

(not EXPERTS) of Kombucha, what it does not state is that these people are the

" original creators " who invented, studied and tested this type of drink. As far

as how much water to drink... our bodies are comprised of approximately 75%

water. Tea is a Diuretic, Kombucha Tea is intended to flush the toxins out of

your body. You will need to replace this water and keep your self hydrated.

Whether you chose to do that is not dependent on any one so-called expert in

Kombucha, that depends solely on you. Knowing that your intent is to rid your

body of toxins and knowing you are using a diuretic, one usually would conclude

that water gone out must be replaced with the like. The rule of thumb is to

drink half of your body weight in ounces (this is without detoxing, or drinking

a diuretic). Therefore if you are 160lbs. your " rule of thumb " for daily water

intake would be 80 ounces of water. If you are concerned about the true

expertise of anything on this board go to your Doctor and ask him if you should

drink water when drinking a diuretic and toxin flusher...If your trust his

opinion!

a

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> " ... There are some very experienced brewers of Kombucha on this list and

Kombucha researchers and authors as well. .. "

>>and I was hoping to hear from at least one of those.

>>- any experts here?

>>