Re: For Tom & Inger ( & others) Bringing together the leaders

[Guest guest]

Nope I do not hate A.F.F, thats a cop out. I said the truth, persons can ignore it and excuse it all they want. I do not hate them, thats your bias for the few that spoiled the whole for some of them.Truth is truth.Leif Ekblad <leif@...> wrote: : > A.F.F is very closed minded, one of the owners is a satanist, > the group has a history with conflicts with other groups. > Started a bunch of issues with me over simple questions > becuase I found out incidently an anti-aff site which could be true or not. That's irrelevant. AFF has got publicity outside of traditional advocacy circles, and is recognized as a radical AS site. If some of them are satanists, budhist or whatever is irrelevant. [snipped hate for AFF] I think any site that claims to represent all

views cannot take sides against particular sites, regardless if they are pro-cure or think Aspies are good as they are. Leif Aspie Owned, Aspie Operated.AspergersHosting.comA.S.W.C Autism Advocacy & Exchangehttp://www.aspergershosting.com/ASWC

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[Guest guest]

Making obsolute groups that are know problem makers is not an issue really, there are so many more willing to take a quality of life stance, especially parents who know the truth.Or persons of a form of autism who do not see themsevles in others whom they are not and think they are just like them.Its really not a coalition, its working with group owners to pool members of their groups to write e-mails... Not make a firm stance in anything but quality of life. So it is a quality of life unity not really anti this or anti that.environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: "I think that a common sense will arise, sometimes intolerances come from negative experiences and illusional beliefs concerning what

cannot be readily controlled." , as much as I would like to believe this to be true, I think you are NOT seeing something that only became glaringly obvious to me after a period of time. There are two websites out there who APPEAR to be working on behalf of all Aspies when in fact they are only working in their own egotistical best interests. The moment you confront them with this plain accusation you are banned and then ranted against without the ability to respond because you have been banned. They then accuse you of being weak because you have not responded, and their members come to believe this not knowing that you have been banned. I will NOT stand in a coalition if these websites are to be included. Their interest is NOT to assist all Aspies but to assist themselves. Joining your coalition would hardly be a genuine gesture on their part but just another way to make it look like they

were working for Aspies when in fact they would be working for themselves. For these two boards, all of their Aspie members are unknowing pawns in a game. "I must however, tolerate even intolerance for proof of my ability to make any such venue democratic and accepting." That's weak. Would you tolerate people with weak ethics and morals just so your own cause can be achieved? I would ask you to rethink how you are compiling this coalition and deliberately exclude those boards which conduct themselves with lacking morals, values, and ethics. "There are far more important generalized issues relevant to quality of life then divisional differences which are not important by comparison." I disagree. The divisional differences are there for a reason. I like to take the moral high road. Others do not. Why not exclude and shun those who use and manipulate their members for their own

purposes? We should do this because those boards are the biggest impediment for Aspies to achieve the GOOD recognition that they deserve. Tom Administrator Aspie Owned, Aspie Operated.AspergersHosting.comA.S.W.C Autism Advocacy & Exchangehttp://www.aspergershosting.com/ASWC

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[Guest guest]

A.P does in fact have a policy of blind ignorances yet claim others are ignorant. There is a truth that is not said there. However A.P does not have a track record of such conflicts with other groups. The lady who owns it has always treated me well and with A.F.F did not make me out to be the bad guy. She once excused the behavious of Amy as a pregnant lady. At the time of findout out about that I stopped complaining about them. environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: The bottom line is...as a Christian, I cannot and will not enter into a coalition with Satanists. That's my final word on that. Exclude AFF and AP and I am in. Include them and I will have nothing to do with them. Tom AdministratorAspie Owned, Aspie

Operated.AspergersHosting.comA.S.W.C Autism Advocacy & Exchangehttp://www.aspergershosting.com/ASWC

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[Guest guest]

I just view her as a mother with a son and she knows him only, of ocurse not everyone with a form of autism. So she speaks from the point of view of defending his reality in who and how he is.environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: Just because she treated you well does not mean she is up to no good. Tom Administrator The lady who owns it has always treated me well and with A.F.F did not make me out to be the bad guy. Aspie Owned, Aspie Operated.AspergersHosting.comA.S.W.C Autism Advocacy & Exchangehttp://www.aspergershosting.com/ASWC__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I'm a well trained internet marketer, once in basic agreement with groups I can do much better then a silly wiki page. Also I can contact wikipedia and requests that any formation for quality of life be a protected page perhaps about certain collaboration identity concerning. I know that certain persons with A.F.F are controllers, they have threatened to remove anything I put there but it would by non-productive to fight a social conflict of words over a page. It's the few in A.F.F and not the whole of them."I just woke up so typos in posts"environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: "AFF has got publicity outside of traditional advocacy circles, and is

recognized as a radical AS site. If some of them are satanists, budhist or whatever is irrelevant." We can get the publicity they have. The reason we have not gotten it so far is that their members on Wikkepedia keep deleting our links and banning us when we protest. Additionally, they slam us openly on other sites and we have to go surfing the net to find these posts in order to combat them. By then it is too late. The fact that Gareth is a Satanist is directly relevant because he believes the following: http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php? t=1043 & postdays=0 & postorder=asc & start=105 "To the satanist, the self is god." We have no chance working in conjunction with a person whose flaws are the rules they live by and govern with. Imperfection is a stmbling block. Not a foundation. "I think

any site that claims to represent all views cannot take sides against particular sites, regardless if they are pro-cure or think Aspies are good as they are." Agreed. And so we can simply say: "This site represents all views except those of the radical autistic community. To wit: AFF." Tom Administrator Aspie Owned, Aspie Operated.AspergersHosting.comA.S.W.C Autism Advocacy & Exchangehttp://www.aspergershosting.com/ASWC__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

She does not in any way advocate for her child when she publishes

stories on her other website that have mentally incapacitated

children being inflicted with torture against their will.

I will not enter into any alliance where such a hypocrite is

advocating for the rights of autistics.

Given the duality of her nature, I have no idea where her true

beliefs lie. This was why she was banned from this forum.

Tom

Administrator

I just view her as a mother with a son and she knows him only, of

ocurse not everyone with a form of autism. So she speaks from the

point of view of defending his reality in who and how he is.

[Guest guest]

Tom and A.P are like me and A.F.F with some differences. I really don't think she will partake and any policies and actions she presents may or may not pass the vote, likely not your vote at least. So its not an alliance, it's like perhaps the U.N for the autism community, the United Nations are really not united but are of similar principles in agreement. Some participating nations will hate other member nations in the U.N. Just human nature I suppose. environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: She does not in any way advocate for her child when she publishes stories on her other website that have mentally incapacitated children being inflicted with torture against their will. I will not enter into any alliance

where such a hypocrite is advocating for the rights of autistics. Given the duality of her nature, I have no idea where her true beliefs lie. This was why she was banned from this forum. Tom AdministratorAspie Owned, Aspie Operated.AspergersHosting.comA.S.W.C Autism Advocacy & Exchangehttp://www.aspergershosting.com/ASWC

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[Guest guest]

Again...

My issue with AFF is that the leader of it is an admitted and

proclaimed Satanist. When you place a Satanist -an agent of evil- in

the position of advocacy, you give this agent of evil and Satanist

authority over believers in God (including Jews, Christians, and

Muslims) and Christ (Christians).

My Christian religion cannot support this, and so, since I am

Christian, neither will I. And since the biggest supporter of AFF is

the leader of AI a woman who proclaims her lover of her autistic son

while her alternative website abuses mentally incapacitated

childrem, I cannot support her either.

Strike these two groups from your coaltion permanently, and I will

join the coalition.

Otherwise, if FAM is the ONLY group on the web outside of your

coalition, then so be it.

Tom

Administrator

I'm a well trained internet marketer, once in basic agreement with

groups I can do much better then a silly wiki page.

Also I can contact wikipedia and requests that any formation for

quality of life be a protected page perhaps about certain

collaboration identity concerning.

I know that certain persons with A.F.F are controllers, they have

threatened to remove anything I put there but it would by non-

productive to fight a social conflict of words over a page.

It's the few in A.F.F and not the whole of them.

" I just woke up so typos in posts "

[Guest guest]

And I think the UN would do well to eject certain nations from its

groups of nations for human rights abuses. Even the US, for

torturing prisoners outside of its borders.

My opinion stands. FAM will not joining anything that AP or AFF is

involved in.

Tom

Administrator

Tom and A.P are like me and A.F.F with some differences.

I really don't think she will partake and any policies and actions

she presents may or may not pass the vote, likely not your vote at

least.

So its not an alliance, it's like perhaps the U.N for the autism

community, the United Nations are really not united but are of

similar principles in agreement. Some participating nations will

hate other member nations in the U.N. Just human nature I suppose.

[Guest guest]

A.I leader told me in chat that she did not at all like A.F.F. Or were they playing some mind games with me? I talked to the owner of A.I in chat for a long time and she supported my complain, did you perhaps mean A.P? I just view Satanism as spite of religion. (of delusion) A.F.F and A.P are really just almost the same. I don't agree in totality with them, however being against some of there core progressions should not translate as being opposing to positive or any shared ideal. environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: Again... My issue with AFF is that the leader of it is an admitted and

proclaimed Satanist. When you place a Satanist -an agent of evil- in the position of advocacy, you give this agent of evil and Satanist authority over believers in God (including Jews, Christians, and Muslims) and Christ (Christians). My Christian religion cannot support this, and so, since I am Christian, neither will I. And since the biggest supporter of AFF is the leader of AI a woman who proclaims her lover of her autistic son while her alternative website abuses mentally incapacitated childrem, I cannot support her either. Strike these two groups from your coaltion permanently, and I will join the coalition. Otherwise, if FAM is the ONLY group on the web outside of your coalition, then so be it. Tom AdministratorAspie Owned, Aspie Operated.AspergersHosting.comA.S.W.C Autism Advocacy & Exchangehttp://www.aspergershosting.com/ASWC

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[Guest guest]

The aspects of government that do not link to the others aspects of government that are for and by the people are rouge. I support reformulation. environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: And I think the UN would do well to eject certain nations from its groups of nations for human rights abuses. Even the US, for torturing prisoners outside of its borders. My opinion stands. FAM will not joining anything that AP or AFF is involved in. Tom AdministratorAspie Owned, Aspie Operated.AspergersHosting.comA.S.W.C Autism Advocacy & Exchangehttp://www.aspergershosting.com/ASWC

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[Guest guest]

Yes, I meant AP.

I will not enter into anyt coalition that has AFF or AP in it.

Aspergian Island I have nothing against (anymore) now that

Crucibelle ousted the old admin.

Tom

Administrator

A.I leader told me in chat that she did not at all like A.F.F. Or

were they playing some mind games with me? I talked to the owner of

A.I in chat for a long time and she supported my complain, did you

perhaps mean A.P?

I just view Satanism as spite of religion.

(of delusion)

A.F.F and A.P are really just almost the same. I don't agree in

totality with them, however being against some of there core

progressions should not translate as being opposing to positive or

any shared ideal.

[Guest guest]

I sort of got mad at her after she told me most of her members had some kind of schezo personality or something, she claims to have went to college for psychology but maybe like a few others that accused me of lieing will say it must have been a hacker saying those things to me. Also that fat people should not exists in so many words. (likely to be denied but I saw it on the screen, I’d swear on the bible).Some folks of really fricken messed with me and I won't tolerate it, cause I know some view this forum. I don’t chat to most anymore and it got to the point I dont find it believable certain chats anymore. Her and I have had problems, beginning with A.F.F and her inaction towards someone that said some serious and terrible untrue

things yet enjoyed my fighting him in words by laughing at the whole thing. A.I really is not an advocacy group, I had no problems with the previous admin really aside from calling me discriminative for his popularity position. So yeah I did as well, but it's to bad because he was an intelligent mind to debate. Really if anyone was attentive to that side, I take both sides and argue them as an exercise. None of this is about quality of life however.There are two other smaller groups other then inger and tom that are speaking to me. They do there own things as you guys do.environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: Yes, I meant AP. I will not enter into anyt coalition that has AFF or AP in it. Aspergian Island I have nothing against (anymore) now that Crucibelle

ousted the old admin. Tom Administrator Aspie Owned, Aspie Operated.AspergersHosting.comA.S.W.C Autism Advocacy & Exchangehttp://www.aspergershosting.com/ASWC

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[Guest guest]

Inger:

> The only ones here who may have an " attitude " about AFF are those who have

> been unfairly treated by them. I don't want to bash anyone; just asking

some

> questions and explaining why I am not overly keen on being in a joint

> venture with them - or with AP who state in their board policy that you

> can't mention AS in anything but positive light or risk having your post

> edited.

I don't agree with the attitude about AP here. I think it is an

extraordinary

idea that has worked. AP is the largest list of crosslinked sites about AS,

and have great impact on search engine hits. Instead of finding loads

of cure-information when you search for autism you get AP. I cannot

see why people here is bashing that idea. I will certainly not withdraw

anything

from there. I've not had any complaints about conetent or any other issues

with Bonnie Ventura.

> Leif:

> > I think looking at superior traits is part of understanding autism. It

is

> > not the only thing required but certainly part of it.

>

> Have I said otherwise? You have known me ever since I came online. Have I

> not always tried to point out people's special talents when they feel

> totally useless because that's what they've been told all their lives?

Absolutely. I have no complaints against you.

> But

> that doesn't mean that many of us aren't also in need of assistance. I

> happen to be a color genius. But I am still too sensitive and physically

> incapacitated to make it in this world without assistance. Only difference

> between me and the fanatic faction is that I don't see it as degrading to

> need help. I don't feel that it makes me worth any less as a human being.

> I'm not too proud to ask for the help that I need.

I like to have the attitude that I can do everything myself. Its

part of my personality.

> Very interesting. What happens when you have too much blood then? Do you

get

> symtoms like in autism?

I have no idea.

> Leif:

> > We shouldn't think these issues *cause* autism. We should

> be worried about comorbidities that are treatable. Hemochromatosis, for

> instance, is easily treatable. All that is required is to loose blood

> regulary.

>

> Why don't you start an information campaign about that, then?

I might. I sent a letter to RFA, which they ignored. Maybe if I send

them a new letter linking to the new information they might

finally wake-up?

Leif

[Guest guest]

Her behavior has been similarly erratic towards me, but she has

disabilities of her own in addition to AS which explain her

behavior. This is why I cannot hold a grduge against her even though

I am still banned from her forum.

If you wanted to exclude AI from your coaltion, I would be pleased,

but I won't hold it against you if you allowed her join. And I would

join even with her being there. The only thing that would cause me

not to join is if AP and AFF are there. Or if I believed the general

cause you are promoting was unethical.

Like Inger, I do feel that a moderate appraoch ought to be taken.

Some people with autism need help. Others do not. A band of sites

and forums working together to educate people on autism and advocate

for them in some way might be beneficial.

Tom

Administrator

I sort of got mad at her after she told me most of her members had

some kind of schezo personality or something, she claims to have

went to college for psychology but maybe like a few others that

accused me of lieing will say it must have been a hacker saying

those things to me. Also that fat people should not exists in so

many words. (likely to be denied but I saw it on the screen, I’d

swear on the bible).

Some folks of really fricken messed with me and I won't tolerate it,

cause I know some view this forum. I don’t chat to most anymore

and it got to the point I dont find it believable certain chats

anymore.

Her and I have had problems, beginning with A.F.F and her inaction

towards someone that said some serious and terrible untrue things

yet enjoyed my fighting him in words by laughing at the whole thing.

A.I really is not an advocacy group, I had no problems with the

previous admin really aside from calling me discriminative for his

popularity position. So yeah I did as well, but it's to bad because

he was an intelligent mind to debate.

Really if anyone was attentive to that side, I take both sides and

argue them as an exercise.

None of this is about quality of life however.

There are two other smaller groups other then inger and tom that are

speaking to me. They do there own things as you guys do.

[Guest guest]

Tom:

> We can get the publicity they have. The reason we have not gotten it

> so far is that their members on Wikkepedia keep deleting our links and

> banning us when we protest. Additionally, they slam us openly on other

> sites and we have to go surfing the net to find these posts in order

> to combat them. By then it is too late.

I have a lot of experience with wikipedia, and I certainly do not

see AFF ruling wikipedia. Additionally, wikipedia is not a " link farm " ,

and thus should not contain huge lists of weblinks. I actually agree with

this. To get a link there you need to be notable and have the attention

of media. There is also another side of this, besides links. I've done a

lot of editing and removing the terrible picture of autism / AS that

these articles originally contained. A while ago I took the entire

sections of " causes " and " therapies " and moved them out of the

main articles. This has not been reverted, even though there were

a little complaining from some. Nowadays I usually work together

with other editors there, even if I can't put up some of my favorite

articles there (like the neanderthal theory).

> The fact that Gareth is a Satanist is directly relevant because he

> believes the following:

>

> http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?

> t=1043 & postdays=0 & postorder=asc & start=105

>

> " To the satanist, the self is god. "

I read a little of it. I don't believe in gods so does make me a satanust?

Leif

[Guest guest]

Tom:

> I will not enter into anyt coalition that has AFF or AP in it.

I suspect that if you don't want to be in a coalition with

anybody that is part of the AP-list, you will not have

many major sites to associate with. Apart from CAN,

NAS and other curebee organizations.

If I was to start such an initiative, one of my first priorities

would be to request a link to the AP-list for search engine

coverage. No need to do all the hard work of promoting

a site if you just can request inclusion to popular web-rings

and alike.

It's a little like the Aspie-quiz that Inger and I have

been arguing about. I don't want to waste all the

traffic that is generated with no effort by a multitude

of links all over the Internet, so when I want to get

an answer to a new question, I can simply release

a new version at the same link. As long as the

quiz gives reasonable results to whoever takes

it, there is room for research and experimentation.

Leif

[Guest guest]

Then you will agree that AFF's links and the links of the other forums

(such as Spectrum Haven) which they have created ought to be removed.

They are a group of disgruntled blow hards. No more. No less. Not

many within the psychiatric community have heard of them despite Amy's

self-published articles. But those shrinks who are aware of them think

AFF is deluded and derranged. At least that's what MY shrink says.

Tom

Administrator

Additionally, wikipedia is not a " link farm " , and thus should not

contain huge lists of weblinks. I actually agree with this.

[Guest guest]

The issue is that she has a website with stories on it about the

sadistic torture and sexual abuse of mentally capacitated underaged

individuals.

One can hardly be FOR autism rights and have autistic-like characters

be abused on a different website of her ownership.

By joining her list, YOU then become one of those who supports her

hyposcrisy.

Tom

Administrator

I've not had any complaints about conetent or any other issues

with Bonnie Ventura.

[Guest guest]

That's fine with me.

I won't enter into a coalition with a Satanist. It goes against my

religion. And I won't enter into a coalition with anyone who

promotes the sexual abuse and torture of mentally incapacitated

individuals. That goes against my morals and ethics.

If supporting these people is in keeping with your morals and

ethics, then do as you will.

Alternatively, you can re-examine your morals and ethics.

Tom

Administrator

Tom:

> I will not enter into anyt coalition that has AFF or AP in it.

I suspect that if you don't want to be in a coalition with

anybody that is part of the AP-list, you will not have

many major sites to associate with. Apart from CAN,

NAS and other curebee organizations.

[Guest guest]

Tom:

> I won't enter into a coalition with a Satanist. It goes against my

> religion.

I'm an atheist so I couldn't really care less about religious aspects..

> And I won't enter into a coalition with anyone who

> promotes the sexual abuse and torture of mentally incapacitated

> individuals. That goes against my morals and ethics.

Can you please send me a link to this web-site. Here or

in private. Even if it is true, it is not on the AP list and

thus is not part of AP activities and ideals.

Leif

[Guest guest]

I've sent you the links in private. It can be accessed via one of the links

posted at the AP links page.

Inger

Re: Re: For Tom & Inger ( & others) Bringing

together the leaders

Tom:

> I won't enter into a coalition with a Satanist. It goes against my

> religion.

I'm an atheist so I couldn't really care less about religious aspects..

> And I won't enter into a coalition with anyone who

> promotes the sexual abuse and torture of mentally incapacitated

> individuals. That goes against my morals and ethics.

Can you please send me a link to this web-site. Here or

in private. Even if it is true, it is not on the AP list and

thus is not part of AP activities and ideals.

Leif

[Guest guest]

not only have I sent you the links, I have sent you the relevant

quotes.

Check to find an e-mail from this group directly.

The content is not publishable on this forum and may be illegal in my

country.

Tom

Administrator

Can you please send me a link to this web-site. Here or

in private. Even if it is true, it is not on the AP list and

thus is not part of AP activities and ideals.

Leif

[Guest guest]

But it IS on the AP list.

A link on her list takes you to a story she has written which she

posted on her alternative website. You go to that link and can

access the others stories...excerpts of which I have sent you

privately.

In other words, the sadistic porn stories are on the same site as

her pro-autism FanFic stories.

Tom

Administrator

Even if it is true, it is not on the AP list and thus is not part of

AP activities and ideals.

Leif

[Guest guest]

Divsion seed Cure vs non-cure, a differing politic. The individual politic is quality of life and real-life issues. It has nothing to do with that and I already have spoken to some of the other sites. Some just join the link lists for links. What has spoiled the name of A.F.F is the leadership for the most part. Wanting to accept yourself for who you are is ok, yet some persons with a form of autism want treatment and research. IT is entirely anti-establishment and cure is more a funding tactic like a cure for cancer. None really would disagree with quality of life and it is a seperate issue.Leif Ekblad <leif@...> wrote: Tom:> I will not enter into anyt coalition that has AFF or AP in it.I

suspect that if you don't want to be in a coalition withanybody that is part of the AP-list, you will not havemany major sites to associate with. Apart from CAN,NAS and other curebee organizations. If I was to start such an initiative, one of my first prioritieswould be to request a link to the AP-list for search enginecoverage. No need to do all the hard work of promotinga site if you just can request inclusion to popular web-ringsand alike.It's a little like the Aspie-quiz that Inger and I havebeen arguing about. I don't want to waste all thetraffic that is generated with no effort by a multitudeof links all over the Internet, so when I want to getan answer to a new question, I can simply releasea new version at the same link. As long as thequiz gives reasonable results to whoever takesit, there is room for research and experimentation.LeifAspie Owned, Aspie

Operated.AspergersHosting.comA.S.W.C Autism Advocacy & Exchangehttp://www.aspergershosting.com/ASWC

Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.