Re: Hate Literature: WAS: OK i am confused

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/21/2006 9:34:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, ravenmagic2003@... writes:

Creating and distributing hate literature is a crime even if that which is written about is not carried out in real life. Is Bonnie not creating and distributing hate literature when she publishes her stories of violence against those more vulnerable segments of society -- even those imagined such as Borgs -- on her websites?Raven

That, combined with your previous post, was my point. Perhaps because those stories are pornographic and, thanks to the likes of Larry Flynt, porn has become the most enshrined aspect of the First Amendment, stories such as those would be "tolerated." However, writing stories about doing things that Muslims have been doing to innocent people, like sawing off heads, cutting off other body parts, stoning people to death and so on, probably would be considered a hate crime.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/21/2006 9:44:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, inglori@... writes:

I personally find such stories very disturbing and would be happy to se a ban on violence of ANY kind in both literature and film.But just to be correct here, the Borg are not an existing minority. Thus, hate crime against FICTIONAL minority can hardly be the same thing as hate crime against an existing minority? In spirit, sure, but legally I mean.Inger

I don't think a ban on all violence would be good. Lots of unrealistic violence can lead to desensitization and encourage violence, but I think having none might be just as bad because people wouldn't see the consequences of violence. It would also make for boring fare at the movies and in literature. Good stories involve conflict and a lot of that is violence. Take out all violent acts and you pretty much kill a big chunk of literature. Not everyone likes romance novels.

[Guest guest]

I personally find such stories very disturbing and would be happy to se a

ban on violence of ANY kind in both literature and film.

But just to be correct here, the Borg are not an existing minority. Thus,

hate crime against FICTIONAL minority can hardly be the same thing as hate

crime against an existing minority? In spirit, sure, but legally I mean.

Inger

Hate Literature: WAS: OK i am confused

Creating and distributing hate literature is a crime even if that

which is written about is not carried out in real life. Is Bonnie

not creating and distributing hate literature when she publishes her

stories of violence against those more vulnerable segments of

society -- even those imagined such as Borgs -- on her websites?

Raven

>

>

> In a message dated 3/21/2006 8:31:13 AM Eastern Standard Time,

leif@...

> writes:

>

> Mixing up stories with reality again. What happened in Abu Graib

> was *reality*. What Bonnie wrote was fiction!

>

> Leif

>

>

>

> So I could write stories about mercilessly torturing Muslims to

death, nerve

> gassing whole cities, spitting kitten on pikes and burning them

alive and it

> would be OK since it is fiction?

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

The point is, Bonnie mentors the behavior and makes it seem

acceptable through its proliferation and distribution. She incites

thoughts of doing it for real among those with poor judgement.

She is an agent of violence.

It takes a certain kind of person to think such thoughts and be so

earnest about sharing them with others and promoting their

distribution. She has gone to considerable expense to keep her BDSM

websites and webrings up and running. A commitment to bondage and

discipline, sadism and masochism.

It suggests a deep longing or repressed urge that she releases as a

catharsis and a strong desire to connect with others who have the

same longings and urges so that they can delight in this abomination

together.

It suggests a primitive woman who is incapable of looking for better

means of soul empowering satisfaction.

Tom

Administration

I personally find such stories very disturbing and would be happy to

se a ban on violence of ANY kind in both literature and film.

But just to be correct here, the Borg are not an existing minority.

Thus, hate crime against FICTIONAL minority can hardly be the same

thing as hate crime against an existing minority? In spirit, sure,

but legally I mean.

Inger

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/21/2006 12:04:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, inglori@... writes:

But you see, we VERY RARELY do. Apart from Jewish film makers often being brilliant at depicting the suffering of their people in WWII in a gripping way, you almost never see any REALISTIC consequences of violence. Au contraire; all you see is someone getting multiple kicks in the head - ONE of which would usually be enough to inflict serious brain damage and make that person a vegetable for life, still running around kicking back as if nothing more than a mosquito bite. This is VERY dangerous as it makes kids think they can kick people nearly to death without it doing too much damage. Many an interview with kids after they commit such a crime have revealed their surprise at the damage they did.

I can tell you haven't watched a lot of the recent war movies. Since Saving Private and Braveheart, battlefield depictions have become very realistic. Action movies, on the other hand, tend to exaggerate the injury to the bad guys while the good guys keep going no matter what. For that reason, I don't like action movies in general, but there are a few good ones.

What of it? Are you saying that now you condone violence because you personally find it entertaining? Long as it doesn't contain sex, it's fine with all sorts of horrors on film and in books?

Entertaining would be the wrong word. It can be overdone to the point of gratuitousness, but if it is kept in proper measure, like in Gladiator, then it is a part of the story but not THE story. Horror movies make the violence and so forth the point of the story. If violence is banned, then the Science Fiction, Fantasy, Murder mysteries, Dectective stories, Spy stories, etc. would all cease to be.

Now, I don't like gratuitous violence like in some of the gangsta movies today and I'm not fond of horror movies. Like I said, if violence is kept in the proper perspective, then it works. Could a movie about courage and defending the weak, like in the 13th Warrior, be made without a threat to the life and limb of the villagers? No. Could a movie about the horrors faced by the allies on D-Day, like in Saving Private , be made without violence, no.