Avoid (was: 7:1-5KJV)

[Guest guest]

Jill:

>> " These are wonderful intentions; however, something saddens me

everytime I think of it: the departure of Toni. I do not wish to open

a discussion of that, only to ask you to reflect on it. "

Tom:

> I have reflected upon her departure a great deal.

>

> I agree that her departure was sad, and I will tell you WHY it was sad.

I find it sad because she was first invited here and then treated with what

I found to be inexcusable snottiness when her attempts at being helpful were

misinterpreted. I mailed her in private right after she left and she was

pretty much in shock.

> One thing I noticed about her was that she seemed to be willing enough

to hear what we had to say, but then there was this " I associate with

Aspies so I understand Aspies " attitude, which was crap. She wasn't

actually really willing to apply much of what we told her here or in

the FF toward raising her sons.

You have no idea about her attitude. You're making your usual assumptions

again as an excuse for the inexcusable behavior of you and Raven at the

time. Besides being friendly and fun, I found her very openminded and eager

to learn. I was shocked to see her practically run off the board. She could

have learned a lot that might have been useful in how to best deal with her

sons.

> When you tried to talk sensibly to her it was either more than she could

> hear, or she took it personally.

People usually only react like that when YOU cross a line by making them

into vicarious symbols for how you personally have been treated by others

(e.g. your own family) and thus post with more passion and sublte aggression

than you may be aware of. You very rarely do this in the Family Forum, which

is why parents listen to you and take inspiration from your awesome posts

there. But on rare occasions it happens and then it is only natural that

they feel attacked, because they actuallyARE being attacked. Let's call a

spade a spade here.

> If you got irritated with her, then it was " I'm a recovering alcoholic and

> am doing the best that I can with my children. "

You have no right whatsoever to get irritated with her, nor to go talking

badly about her when she is no longer here to defend herself.

> I am sick of parents using excuses for not doing the work to raise

their children, especially parents of Aspies since Aspies have two

strikes against them roughly since birth: 1) They are socially inept,

and 2) They have ways of thinking which cause people to shun them.

So you're frustrated that they only take inspiration from your words rather

than go get a brain-transplant that turns them into Aspies or perfect

parents overnight?

> It's not my fault or her sons' fault that she is a recovering

alcoholic. She's the drunk...that's HER problem. The fact that she

uses it as an excuse to not take hard advice or to avoid doing the

work with her sons shows she has a lot to learn and that she is still

using her erstwhile alcoholism as a crutch to avoid parental

responsibility.

Could this have more to do with the alcoholism of your own mother than with

Toni who has STOPPED drinking and is doing her best to raise two very

difficult Asplings?

> Secret Society is an Aspie forum and she was not an Aspie by her own

admission. I let her in here because she suggested this would be a way

for her to learn more about her kids. What she learned was how they

thought but she chose not to learn how to work with them in the way

they needed to be worked with.

How do you know that?

> On the Family Forum or in other FAM forums it was clear that she was

still not receptive to actually " doing the work. "

It was not clear to me. And even if this would have been the case, it's

still none of your business. You elected to start the FF to provide

information. What parents do with that information is totally up to them.

> I don't believe in coddling people, especially parents who claim to be

doing everything they can to do to raise their kids but who in reality

are not.

We all know THAT. You appear to belive in giving everyone a good kick in the

rear unless they act according to your precise wishes. Tell me... how is

this much different from how AFF conducts their business? I helped you start

the FF on the premises that we would offer information in a friendly,

respectful and non-judgmental way, in order to bridge the gap of

understanding between Aspies and non-Aspies. If this is no longer the forum

policy, I want nothing to do with it.

> She was nice, and I liked her personality, but her son coming in here

and bashing Kate1 and calling her with derision a " lesbian " and

a " feminist " among other things does not in anyway endear Toni to me

as a parent, because her son is surely NOT a well-developed Aspie who

knows the meaning of restraint.

Right. That was totally over the top. But this can hardly be all her fault.

She has a husband too I belive, and those Asplings of hers could sure use a

clue or two about manners.

> As Toni is not here to comment about things anymore, that is all I am

going to say about it except that she is welcome back in the Family

Forum if she cares to learn anything more.

I doubt she would feel safe from attacks.

Inger