Guest guest Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 , very thought provoking. thank you. Can you please elaborate polymorphic theta ? And Good theta ? Is it that presence of harmonics make it polymorphic ? And fundamental theta with harmonics makes it bad ? Regards, Devidas > > Hi Mark, > > > > You asked my thoughts about " theta left frontal to posterior synchrony " as > the underlying mechanism of alpha-theta training. You cited Gruzelier [1]. > Gruzelier cited von Stein [2] and Aftanas [3]. Let me know if you need those > articles. I apologize in advance for my errors in interpreting the > literature. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 Hi , Glad to see you posting. Some associations and questions below; 1: Your mention of Beta spindling within the context of Othmer's low frequency training due to Harmonic effects has me wondering about the same for breath training. In other words given the low frequency components of breathing at certain rates, isn't there a danger of triggering beta spindling with this too? 2: On the topic of harmonic or resonant effects, can this work the other way too with higher frequencies rippling down the spectrum when trained? 3: There is an important theoretical and empirical hurdle that needs to be crossed before any hypothesis of LFT causing beta spindling can be supported. What is the theoretical rational that this can be trained with such large time lags due to the nature of the signal? I don't think operant conditioning as a model would support that such signals can be trained. Also where is the empirical evidence to support that Low frequency components have actually been trained during sessions? Client reports of effects is not evidence that any training of Low Frequency dynamics occurred. Bruce Z. Berman alternative method for training down theta? Hello , I am impressed with the careful attention to detail you have undertaken in this matter. Since you asked for comments, here are mine. Roughly speaking there is good theta and bad theta. Bad theta is polymorphic. This means that the observed periodic phenomena in the EEG occur roughly 4-8 per second but have a varying morphology that is not sinusoidal. "Good" theta is rhythmic and sinusoidal like eyes-closed alpha and is primarily frontal midline. Bad theta is indeed a hallmark of a variety of malfunctions such as ADD. In many cases it is due to maternal immune activation. In other cases it is due to current or on-going stimuli disrupting homeostasis. Neurofeedback uses Fourier transforms to isolate primarily the rhythmic good theta. Normally this is roughly midline. You are correct in assuming that a left frontal concentration of theta (good or bad) is an aberration. It is essential to remember that on occasion localized theta may be a manifestation of focal abnormality (vascular, neoplastic, degenerative, traumatic, inflammatory, etc.) However, you talk like the theta was not only bad but might also be a culpable agent with an agenda. In such a scenario we usually agree to attack the aggressor (the theta amplitude). But there might be another interpretation. Delta to gamma brainwaves are ALL slow waves compared to the 500-1000 Hz waves that are included in the panoply when one looks under the hood. Especially delta, theta and alpha are all bases for long-distance network communication. So if you see theta segregated to an isolated region you know you are dealing with a loss of long-distance integration and synchrony. The goal then is NOT to suppress some local theta (or gamma or whatever) but to reintegrate it so that it can continue its role as a bases for network communication. It is not immediately obvious that excess focal theta can be reduced by increasing global theta synchrony. However this may be the case. You may risk unexpected outcomes by dealing with theta amplitude while ignoring any possible phase changes between the theta waves in various parts of the cortex. The well-documented fact that the EEG exhibits what is called a 1/f (one over F) power law can give us clues that are not immediately available elsewhere. The 1/f power law of the EEG clearly enforces that fact that phase shifts (phase modulation) at low frequencies (e.g., delta and theta) control amplitude modulation at the higher frequencies (beta and gamma). This means that the normal essential fractal dimensionality of the EEG may be violated by certain attempts to control low frequency amplitude (e.g., theta training) without attention to the resultant shift in distribution of higher frequencies (beta and gamma). I propose that this is the basis for many of the adverse outcomes of neurofeedbac. Quite a few researchers (Aftanas, Varela, etc.) have shown that long distance theta and alpha synchrony are essential for valid perception. My experience (unpublished) has shown that focal concentrations of theta can often be relieved by up-training theta alpha and gamma synchrony between the 'problem' area and another remote area. Thus, an apparent "accumulation" of theta in the left frontal region may be relieved by recognizing that theta is a long-distance global synchronization signal. Any focal accumulation signifies focal segregation - not long-distance integration and synchronization. I believe we will be able to show that focal amplitude accumulations can be treated by reintegration by phase synchronization. It also good to remember that if there is schizophrenia or bipolar disorders anywhere in the family line, then there is going to be a 20-40% reduction in frontal glutathione leading to neuronal irritability. Increased left frontal theta may be an adaptation when normal cognitive and historical networks cannot cope for chronic stress. As a result you can often expect increased anxiety as a result of treatment. This is a good sign. The anxiety is usually very primitive and the client was not shown self-regulation. The left frontal slow waves may be a mechanism to cope, but lead with other problems such as depression and attention issues.l Gamma normally is "nested" within theta. Therefore a focal accumulation of theta can alter the ultimate binding activities of gamma. Different mediation techniques (imagery, mantra, emptiness) create different cortical gamma distributions. The 1/f power laws show that patterns of theta phase relationship enforce focal gamma amplitude changes, such as are seen with different meditative approaches. Aftanas, et al, have shown that in mature healthy meditators, left frontal theta (and alpha) is especially strongly phase synchronized with the left parietal cortex (P3), the precuneus region (Pz) and the right parietal cortex (P4). I look forward to learning the results of your continued investigations. Best wishes, Dailey www.growing.com www.cortexercise.com From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of ZumbachSent: Friday, May 18, 2012 7:46 AM Subject: Re: alternative method for training down theta? It isn't very hard to see the difference between an errant eye blink and a burst of theta lasting several seconds so I'm not too worried about that. It is important to keep the eyes resting partially closed so that one only needs to blink occasionally, but you already knew that. I would argue that using all four channels is a fine idea on the principle of the fact that more data is generally better and that it gives me the ability to see the bursts of theta as they progress all the way across the left frontal. I would also assume that it would be better to make sure to train the theta down all the way across the left frontal instead of isolating the feedback to one small area. I don't think theta is bad but I'm under the understanding that theta production in the left prefrontal is characteristic of ADD and that the more there is, and the more frequent the bursts, the worse the symptoms are (according to this book: http://tinyurl.com/6qxvtz8). Are we saying that protracted bursts of 4-7hz activity in the left PFC is a desirable thing? I'm also correlating these bursts of theta to breaks in protracted concentration during alpha-synchrony/meditation training. With my latest design I can calculate the exact amount of time I'm in synchrony while meditating and I'm up to an average of 45 minutes out of 60 for most sessions (baring something foolish like caffeine consumption) and I see some strong evidence that these waves of theta washing over the left prefrontal seem to be the cause of my interrupted attention during the remainder. This is the impetus for my action. Thanks for you input Pete, DZ On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 11:32 AM, pvdtlc <pvdtlc@...> wrote: Of course the very first thing to be aware of is that every time you blink or move your eyes, you're very likely to produce a burst of slow activity that looks like theta or delta. If that's what is happening, you may end up training yourself not to blink, but you won't have much effect on brain activity. Second thing is that theta around 7 Hz is actually a GOOD frequency, since it involves connection with the hippocampus or memory center.. Looking at one thing in one place and deciding what to train is probably not the best way to decide on a training plan. What are you noticing as a problem in your performance/mood/etc that you think is related to this theta? Or have you just read that theta is "bad"? If you are training in a very small area as you are describing, aside from the fact that you have 4 channels and really want to use them all, I can't see any benefit to 4C over 1C. Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 678 224 5895BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc. On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Zumbach <zumbach@...> wrote: [Attachment(s) from Zumbach included below] Hey everyone, I realized recently that I have a great deal of theta popping up between FC3 and F3 and decided to start training it down. I have some experience using bipolar montages but have decided that I am against using them. Everywhere I read about bipolar setups (here, the Othmers, quantitative EEG textbook) it seems apparent that no one actually knows what is happening during the training. We may be training the signal up at the active point or down at the active point, down at the reference or up at the reference, changing the phase relationship at either location in one direction or another, but in the end we have literally no idea what is going on other than a vague conception that the electrical activity at one site is now more similar or more different than the activity at the other. For this reason I have created a new design based on, of all things, the alpha-synchrony design that Les Fehmi uses. The logic is that I can put four electrodes between FC3 and FP1 and then sum the theta at these locations. I then set a threshold around 85% and set it to "decrease" so that when, for example, there is a burst of theta in my left frontal region pacman stops moving. I find the inhibit only strategy appealing because once you train theta down the remaining activity will be whatever frequency of beta my brain is most comfortable making, as opposed to trying to get my brain to make a particular frequency of beta. What are people's thoughts on this strategy and my rationale? I would really appreciate any feedback at all. Zumbach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 Hi , Glad to see you posting. Some associations and questions below; 1: Your mention of Beta spindling within the context of Othmer's low frequency training due to Harmonic effects has me wondering about the same for breath training. In other words given the low frequency components of breathing at certain rates, isn't there a danger of triggering beta spindling with this too? 2: On the topic of harmonic or resonant effects, can this work the other way too with higher frequencies rippling down the spectrum when trained? 3: There is an important theoretical and empirical hurdle that needs to be crossed before any hypothesis of LFT causing beta spindling can be supported. What is the theoretical rational that this can be trained with such large time lags due to the nature of the signal? I don't think operant conditioning as a model would support that such signals can be trained. Also where is the empirical evidence to support that Low frequency components have actually been trained during sessions? Client reports of effects is not evidence that any training of Low Frequency dynamics occurred. Bruce Z. Berman alternative method for training down theta? Hello , I am impressed with the careful attention to detail you have undertaken in this matter. Since you asked for comments, here are mine. Roughly speaking there is good theta and bad theta. Bad theta is polymorphic. This means that the observed periodic phenomena in the EEG occur roughly 4-8 per second but have a varying morphology that is not sinusoidal. "Good" theta is rhythmic and sinusoidal like eyes-closed alpha and is primarily frontal midline. Bad theta is indeed a hallmark of a variety of malfunctions such as ADD. In many cases it is due to maternal immune activation. In other cases it is due to current or on-going stimuli disrupting homeostasis. Neurofeedback uses Fourier transforms to isolate primarily the rhythmic good theta. Normally this is roughly midline. You are correct in assuming that a left frontal concentration of theta (good or bad) is an aberration. It is essential to remember that on occasion localized theta may be a manifestation of focal abnormality (vascular, neoplastic, degenerative, traumatic, inflammatory, etc.) However, you talk like the theta was not only bad but might also be a culpable agent with an agenda. In such a scenario we usually agree to attack the aggressor (the theta amplitude). But there might be another interpretation. Delta to gamma brainwaves are ALL slow waves compared to the 500-1000 Hz waves that are included in the panoply when one looks under the hood. Especially delta, theta and alpha are all bases for long-distance network communication. So if you see theta segregated to an isolated region you know you are dealing with a loss of long-distance integration and synchrony. The goal then is NOT to suppress some local theta (or gamma or whatever) but to reintegrate it so that it can continue its role as a bases for network communication. It is not immediately obvious that excess focal theta can be reduced by increasing global theta synchrony. However this may be the case. You may risk unexpected outcomes by dealing with theta amplitude while ignoring any possible phase changes between the theta waves in various parts of the cortex. The well-documented fact that the EEG exhibits what is called a 1/f (one over F) power law can give us clues that are not immediately available elsewhere. The 1/f power law of the EEG clearly enforces that fact that phase shifts (phase modulation) at low frequencies (e.g., delta and theta) control amplitude modulation at the higher frequencies (beta and gamma). This means that the normal essential fractal dimensionality of the EEG may be violated by certain attempts to control low frequency amplitude (e.g., theta training) without attention to the resultant shift in distribution of higher frequencies (beta and gamma). I propose that this is the basis for many of the adverse outcomes of neurofeedbac. Quite a few researchers (Aftanas, Varela, etc.) have shown that long distance theta and alpha synchrony are essential for valid perception. My experience (unpublished) has shown that focal concentrations of theta can often be relieved by up-training theta alpha and gamma synchrony between the 'problem' area and another remote area. Thus, an apparent "accumulation" of theta in the left frontal region may be relieved by recognizing that theta is a long-distance global synchronization signal. Any focal accumulation signifies focal segregation - not long-distance integration and synchronization. I believe we will be able to show that focal amplitude accumulations can be treated by reintegration by phase synchronization. It also good to remember that if there is schizophrenia or bipolar disorders anywhere in the family line, then there is going to be a 20-40% reduction in frontal glutathione leading to neuronal irritability. Increased left frontal theta may be an adaptation when normal cognitive and historical networks cannot cope for chronic stress. As a result you can often expect increased anxiety as a result of treatment. This is a good sign. The anxiety is usually very primitive and the client was not shown self-regulation. The left frontal slow waves may be a mechanism to cope, but lead with other problems such as depression and attention issues.l Gamma normally is "nested" within theta. Therefore a focal accumulation of theta can alter the ultimate binding activities of gamma. Different mediation techniques (imagery, mantra, emptiness) create different cortical gamma distributions. The 1/f power laws show that patterns of theta phase relationship enforce focal gamma amplitude changes, such as are seen with different meditative approaches. Aftanas, et al, have shown that in mature healthy meditators, left frontal theta (and alpha) is especially strongly phase synchronized with the left parietal cortex (P3), the precuneus region (Pz) and the right parietal cortex (P4). I look forward to learning the results of your continued investigations. Best wishes, Dailey www.growing.com www.cortexercise.com From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of ZumbachSent: Friday, May 18, 2012 7:46 AM Subject: Re: alternative method for training down theta? It isn't very hard to see the difference between an errant eye blink and a burst of theta lasting several seconds so I'm not too worried about that. It is important to keep the eyes resting partially closed so that one only needs to blink occasionally, but you already knew that. I would argue that using all four channels is a fine idea on the principle of the fact that more data is generally better and that it gives me the ability to see the bursts of theta as they progress all the way across the left frontal. I would also assume that it would be better to make sure to train the theta down all the way across the left frontal instead of isolating the feedback to one small area. I don't think theta is bad but I'm under the understanding that theta production in the left prefrontal is characteristic of ADD and that the more there is, and the more frequent the bursts, the worse the symptoms are (according to this book: http://tinyurl.com/6qxvtz8). Are we saying that protracted bursts of 4-7hz activity in the left PFC is a desirable thing? I'm also correlating these bursts of theta to breaks in protracted concentration during alpha-synchrony/meditation training. With my latest design I can calculate the exact amount of time I'm in synchrony while meditating and I'm up to an average of 45 minutes out of 60 for most sessions (baring something foolish like caffeine consumption) and I see some strong evidence that these waves of theta washing over the left prefrontal seem to be the cause of my interrupted attention during the remainder. This is the impetus for my action. Thanks for you input Pete, DZ On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 11:32 AM, pvdtlc <pvdtlc@...> wrote: Of course the very first thing to be aware of is that every time you blink or move your eyes, you're very likely to produce a burst of slow activity that looks like theta or delta. If that's what is happening, you may end up training yourself not to blink, but you won't have much effect on brain activity. Second thing is that theta around 7 Hz is actually a GOOD frequency, since it involves connection with the hippocampus or memory center.. Looking at one thing in one place and deciding what to train is probably not the best way to decide on a training plan. What are you noticing as a problem in your performance/mood/etc that you think is related to this theta? Or have you just read that theta is "bad"? If you are training in a very small area as you are describing, aside from the fact that you have 4 channels and really want to use them all, I can't see any benefit to 4C over 1C. Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 678 224 5895BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc. On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Zumbach <zumbach@...> wrote: [Attachment(s) from Zumbach included below] Hey everyone, I realized recently that I have a great deal of theta popping up between FC3 and F3 and decided to start training it down. I have some experience using bipolar montages but have decided that I am against using them. Everywhere I read about bipolar setups (here, the Othmers, quantitative EEG textbook) it seems apparent that no one actually knows what is happening during the training. We may be training the signal up at the active point or down at the active point, down at the reference or up at the reference, changing the phase relationship at either location in one direction or another, but in the end we have literally no idea what is going on other than a vague conception that the electrical activity at one site is now more similar or more different than the activity at the other. For this reason I have created a new design based on, of all things, the alpha-synchrony design that Les Fehmi uses. The logic is that I can put four electrodes between FC3 and FP1 and then sum the theta at these locations. I then set a threshold around 85% and set it to "decrease" so that when, for example, there is a burst of theta in my left frontal region pacman stops moving. I find the inhibit only strategy appealing because once you train theta down the remaining activity will be whatever frequency of beta my brain is most comfortable making, as opposed to trying to get my brain to make a particular frequency of beta. What are people's thoughts on this strategy and my rationale? I would really appreciate any feedback at all. Zumbach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 hello douglas, thank you very much for your comments, they are very interesting. i am a long term meditator and looking for nfb designs to deepen the meditation and to help people get the crucial points of the various meditation techniques. you write: Aftanas, et al, have shown that in mature healthy meditators, left frontal theta (and alpha) is especially strongly phase synchronized with the left parietal cortex (P3), the precuneus region (Pz) and the right parietal cortex (P4). would it be helpful for deepening the meditaion experience to train theta/ alpha synchrony at f3 to pz or to p3/p4? if so which frequency ranges would you use for theta? i suppose a multiple beta inhibit would also be necessary? i would like to try out your way of alpha theta training, at fz and pz. could i use basically the same design as above? i build some devices to get feedback in the peripheral vision. one device reduces the rotating speed of lid leds when the trained frequencies go in the desired direction. the feedback gets more still as one improves. i guess i could use these instead of sound or in addition to sound feedback? many of the meditation techniques in the tibetan tradition are done eyes open. most of the nfb designs training alpha or alpha coherence or synchrony are usually done eyes closed. as i would like to develop designs, especially for mindfulness meditation or meditation on emptiness, i'd rather would like to train eyes open. these states must have also an eeg signiture. do you have any thoughts on that? does your way of alpha theta training done eyes open lead more in these states? thank you for your comments michael > > > > [Attachment(s) from Zumbach included below] > > Hey everyone, > > I realized recently that I have a great deal of theta popping up between FC3 > and F3 and decided to start training it down. I have some experience using > bipolar montages but have decided that I am against using them. Everywhere > I read about bipolar setups (here, the Othmers, quantitative EEG textbook) > it seems apparent that no one actually knows what is happening during the > training. We may be training the signal up at the active point or down at > the active point, down at the reference or up at the reference, changing the > phase relationship at either location in one direction or another, but in > the end we have literally no idea what is going on other than a vague > conception that the electrical activity at one site is now more similar or > more different than the activity at the other. > > For this reason I have created a new design based on, of all things, the > alpha-synchrony design that Les Fehmi uses. The logic is that I can put > four electrodes between FC3 and FP1 and then sum the theta at these > locations. I then set a threshold around 85% and set it to " decrease " so > that when, for example, there is a burst of theta in my left frontal region > pacman stops moving. I find the inhibit only strategy appealing because > once you train theta down the remaining activity will be whatever frequency > of beta my brain is most comfortable making, as opposed to trying to get my > brain to make a particular frequency of beta. > > What are people's thoughts on this strategy and my rationale? I would > really appreciate any feedback at all. > > Zumbach > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 hello douglas, thank you very much for your comments, they are very interesting. i am a long term meditator and looking for nfb designs to deepen the meditation and to help people get the crucial points of the various meditation techniques. you write: Aftanas, et al, have shown that in mature healthy meditators, left frontal theta (and alpha) is especially strongly phase synchronized with the left parietal cortex (P3), the precuneus region (Pz) and the right parietal cortex (P4). would it be helpful for deepening the meditaion experience to train theta/ alpha synchrony at f3 to pz or to p3/p4? if so which frequency ranges would you use for theta? i suppose a multiple beta inhibit would also be necessary? i would like to try out your way of alpha theta training, at fz and pz. could i use basically the same design as above? i build some devices to get feedback in the peripheral vision. one device reduces the rotating speed of lid leds when the trained frequencies go in the desired direction. the feedback gets more still as one improves. i guess i could use these instead of sound or in addition to sound feedback? many of the meditation techniques in the tibetan tradition are done eyes open. most of the nfb designs training alpha or alpha coherence or synchrony are usually done eyes closed. as i would like to develop designs, especially for mindfulness meditation or meditation on emptiness, i'd rather would like to train eyes open. these states must have also an eeg signiture. do you have any thoughts on that? does your way of alpha theta training done eyes open lead more in these states? thank you for your comments michael > > > > [Attachment(s) from Zumbach included below] > > Hey everyone, > > I realized recently that I have a great deal of theta popping up between FC3 > and F3 and decided to start training it down. I have some experience using > bipolar montages but have decided that I am against using them. Everywhere > I read about bipolar setups (here, the Othmers, quantitative EEG textbook) > it seems apparent that no one actually knows what is happening during the > training. We may be training the signal up at the active point or down at > the active point, down at the reference or up at the reference, changing the > phase relationship at either location in one direction or another, but in > the end we have literally no idea what is going on other than a vague > conception that the electrical activity at one site is now more similar or > more different than the activity at the other. > > For this reason I have created a new design based on, of all things, the > alpha-synchrony design that Les Fehmi uses. The logic is that I can put > four electrodes between FC3 and FP1 and then sum the theta at these > locations. I then set a threshold around 85% and set it to " decrease " so > that when, for example, there is a burst of theta in my left frontal region > pacman stops moving. I find the inhibit only strategy appealing because > once you train theta down the remaining activity will be whatever frequency > of beta my brain is most comfortable making, as opposed to trying to get my > brain to make a particular frequency of beta. > > What are people's thoughts on this strategy and my rationale? I would > really appreciate any feedback at all. > > Zumbach > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Hi , The shift you speak of has already occured with Valdene Brown's Neuroptimal software which uses over 16 thresholds to target emergent variability using Garbore transforms. The targets are not based on amplitude but rather measures of intensity. Sieg Othmer mentioned that he believes it targets instabilities and I agree with him in part. Not all auto thresholding is the same. I believe that Val's software is more likely to catch beta spindling with it's auto thresholding than one could do manualy. If there is a change, either up or down, in the intensity in any of multiple targets at C3 or C4 feedabck is briefly inturrupted engaging the the orienting reflex. This strategy of seems much more likely to catch " spindling " or bursts of very short intensities. Perhaps this is why side effects are rarely noticed with such an approach. Someone once questioned Val about how his software can detect instabilities or what he calls " turbulence " just using c3 and c4 as placement and he made an analogy to earthquake detection so far from where the activtity actualy began. This metaphore and other things he has written over the years very much reminds me of some of the things you wrote below. Bruce , " Dailey " <ddailey@...> wrote: > > Hello Bruce, > > > > It's nice to hear from you. I hope you are well. > > > > I will repeat your questions/observations below. I apologize in advance for > some of my unusual analogies, and hope there might be something useful. > > > > 1: Your mention of Beta spindling within the context of Othmer's low > frequency training due to Harmonic effects has me wondering about the same > for breath training. In other words given the low frequency components of > breathing at certain rates, isn't there a danger of triggering beta > spindling with this too? > > > > 1. I suspect this is exactly true. Hyperventilation (along with photic > stimulation) is a regularly used activation technique to provoke > epileptiform responses on the EEG and thus assist in diagnosis. Even people > breathing at 6 breaths per minute (0.01 Hz) often hyperventilate. In the > deepest recesses of the fractally folded lung tissue, the precise balance > between ventilation and blood perfusion is under control of the social > engagement system via the myelinated ventral vagus system. > > > > 2: On the topic of harmonic or resonant effects, can this work the other way > too with higher frequencies rippling down the spectrum when trained? > > > > 2. I believe the answer is yes, but I prefer to phrase it differently > because I think we are talking about different phenomena than harmonic or > resonant effects. > > > > I predict that huge paradigm shifts are in the works and they will involve > several topics currently exciting the physics community. > > > > mountain of salt or sand (or neural avalanches) self organized criticality. > Shifting the relationship in the bottom of the mountain can have a profound > effect on the amplitude of the structures at the top of the mountain. The > neural avalanches appear to be accompanied by phase resets. The concepts of > harmonic and resonant effects are more related to Pythagorean and linear > relationships. You might really enjoy the following link. > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u573PyXo-pY & feature=related> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u573PyXo-pY & feature=related > > > > I prefer to focus on the fact that phase modulation of lower frequencies > controls amplitude of higher frequencies. This is a characteristic of 1/f > power law systems. The deeper relationship between phases of all the lower > frequencies to the amplitude of the higher frequencies is like the > self-recurring similarities no matter how you scale the fractal. If you > train a person to vary gamma for example, without checking you can't be sure > whether or not you are actually phase shifting in any band all the way down > to the EEG frequencies associated with the resting state networks. > > > > Sometimes I try to pretend NFB didn't yet exist. Since self-regulation of > temperature has been shown to help a variety of conditions, and > self-regulation of HRV has shown to help as well, then I ask myself what > would be the best sort of self regulation to encourage in the brain with the > help of some sensor. I won't bother you with the details of my thoughts, but > I would feed back a signal designed to always allowed the brain (if > possible) to explore its own use of the relationship of low frequency phase > and high frequency amplitude shifts. I would want the signal to be scale > invariant and safe to use anywhere on the head. I would like it, for starts, > to train self-regulation in the midline. In those trained in mindfulness > meditation the midline gamma (DMN) is higher at rest than in controls; > during tasks it is lower in meditators than in meditators. > > > > 3: There is an important theoretical and empirical hurdle that needs to be > crossed before any hypothesis of LFT causing beta spindling can be > supported. What is the theoretical rational that this can be trained with > such large time lags due to the nature of the signal? I don't think operant > conditioning as a model would support that such signals can be trained. Also > where is the empirical evidence to support that Low frequency components > have actually been trained during sessions? Client reports of effects is not > evidence that any training of Low Frequency dynamics occurred. > > > > 3. Bruce, that is a fantastic point. > > > > I don't mind calling it low frequency training. I do mind calling it low > frequency amplitude training. > > > > 0.01 Hz and 0.1 Hz respectively represent waves that take between 10 and 100 > seconds to complete. > > > > At these low frequencies I often find that changing the filter settings > provides the brain with an additional challenge to master. It is like going > rock climbing and getting to the top. If you need more training you don't > necessarily have to go up further. Instead you can go sideways. > > > > I hear of people programming their software so they can dial in frequencies > of 0.00001 Hz. This is a wave that takes precisely 1 day (24 hours) to roll > by and reveal its peak to peak amplitude. It is indeed a strain when someone > claims they measured and then trained the amplitude of a wave that takes > from 15 min to 24 hours. Even at 0.10 Hz (6 per minutes) to train the peak > to peak amplitude would require 15 minutes to measure at least one cycle, > then 15 minutes more to train one cycle only, and then 15 minutes to measure > the result. This 45 minutes. 3 waves have occurred. I myself would like to > know where the NFB training is in this model. So let's forget amplitude a > while. Besides, the 1/f power laws suggest that underneath every amplitude > manipulation (even at infra low frequencies), there may be a phase shift in > even a lower frequency which is responsible. > > > > This is a difficult concept for some people so I prepared 2 stories. When > you read them, remember that when the story talks about the amplitudes of > waves on the sea, we are going to be talking about surface ripples like > regular EEG, and then the ultimate phase shifts at lower frequencies. > Consider if you were riding on a boat in a very choppy sea. As you bobbed up > and down you could measure the peak-to-peak amplitudes of the various waves. > But, without additional instrumentation, you would not be aware of the slow > rise and fall due to the tide. > > > > Story 1: One day a simple blind person from the mountain, who never heard > about tides or the moon or gravity, made a visit with a local person to the > sea. The blind person asks, " The water is going up and down some - is it > safe? " Yes " , says his companion, " those are fast and slow waves, but the > tide comes and goes every 24 hours (0.00001 Hz) and you should be concerned > about the amplitude. " " Don't worry, " said the blind person, " I just measured > the variations in the amplitude of the water for a full clinical 50 minutes. > I know how high the tide will be today. " Of course this is a silly story. > Clearly there is no algorithm he could have known (even if he had Ben > lin's Almanac) that allows him to predict the future. He returned to > the mountain. His best friends congratulated him for measuring the tide. > > > > Story 2: The blind man who measured the " tide " in 50 minutes received word > that shortly after his visit the tide had been uncharacteristically low and > the water could not irrigate the low-lands. The blind man studied and > mediated several years until he realized that if he could shift the Earth's > core to change the gravitational center away from the sea, then the sea > might raise enough to irrigate the land. He wondered how to do it. [Note: at > this point I am writing science fiction since we barely know how to do > feedback training to people and certainly not to planets.] Suppose, like the > ancients said, Gaia (Earth) is sentient. Certainly her core shifts > spontaneously and, along with the moon, alters the gravitational pull on the > water. What if we could put in sea-brakes (filters/inhibits) to stop every > single higher frequency wave on the surface of the water, to have it like > the smoothest lake? Then certainly our dipsticks will be monitoring the > moment-to-moment slow shifting of the earth's core. In a stroke of genius he > decided to plant a tree every time the core shifted and the water rose. > After 40 sessions (twice per day because Gaia was acute) the water rose and > the lowlands were irrigated. > > > > The villagers planned to give him a reception with great honors, and to > support him in his efforts. Unfortunately the leaders wanted to siphon all > discretionary funds into a war chest in order to disadvantage and plunder > the neighbors, who they had already carefully painted as the axis of evil > for the sake of those with moral issues. They had a very clever statistician > come to the sea and do exactly what the blind man had done before. He > measured the sea amplitudes for 50 minutes and declared that it was exactly > the same as before. The treatment was pronounced worthless. The blind man > left disappointed. But once per month he was paid by private citizens to > come raise the tide and moisten the fields. > > > > All the other planets were envious that Gaia's ecosystem was learning > self-regulation. End of silly stories. > > > > I am not as keen as you on finding support that low frequency components > have actually been trained. I think it nice but not necessary. During a > session you can train a person a lot. You can see in the movements on the > instruments the client's brain shifting every time the terrain is switched. > The person may feel a variety of states. I ask " would this state be useful > for you? " And I get real interesting answers. At the end of the session I > don't care at all if I changed amplitude of the low frequency waves > permanently. I will simply be with the client while he/she explores the > enriched interactive environment that points toward state changes. The real > value of a brain state to the neural networks resides in how easy that state > is to obtain when needed. > > > > White willow bark was used for pain and inflammation for centuries before it > was discovered that it's active component could be synthesized. It is > commonly called Aspirin. Somehow people felt better using it now that we > knew it alters the cyclooxygenase (COX) pathways. Now that everyone is > comfortable with the explanation, death and disease due non-steroidal > anti-inflammatory drugs is on the increase. New discoveries continue to lead > to new theories about how things are connected. And that is the thing about > theories. I can't remember who said " Theories are neither true nor false, > they are simply useful or not useful. " > > > > As far as support for the hypothesis of LFT causing beta spindling, this is > not an hypothesis - it is an easy observation to make. The reason, I think, > that more LFT practitioners are not aware of this is because they use their > gear with auto-thresholds activated. Besides, it can become daunting to > think of meaningfully fussing with so many inhibit bins. I find it quite > common that a client will start feeling some discomfort accompanied by an > elevation in a particular inhibit beta inhibit bin. It is up to you what to > do at this point. I might bring the frequency up until the rogue beta bin > goes down and behavior returns to normal; or I might mute all feedback from > the " low frequency " reward and only focus on shaping beta manually. I have > one client who can raise or lower any one of 4 individual beta bins at will. > He practiced to visualize my screen which he calls a dashboard. When he > starts to get an anxiety attack he visualizes the dashboard and repeats what > he had done to control the beta spindling. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > From: [mailto: ] On > Behalf Of Bruce Z. Berman > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 1:29 PM > Dailey; > Subject: Re: Theta Synchrony > > > > > > Hi , > > > > Glad to see you posting. Some associations and questions below; > > > > > > 1: Your mention of Beta spindling within the context of Othmer's low > frequency training due to Harmonic effects has me wondering about the same > for breath training. In other words given the low frequency components of > breathing at certain rates, isn't there a danger of triggering beta > spindling with this too? > > > > 2: On the topic of harmonic or resonant effects, can this work the other > way too with higher frequencies rippling down the spectrum when trained? > > > > 3: There is an important theoretical and empirical hurdle that needs to be > crossed before any hypothesis of LFT causing beta spindling can be > supported. What is the theoretical rational that this can be trained with > such large time lags due to the nature of the signal? I don't think operant > conditioning as a model would support that such signals can be trained. Also > where is the empirical evidence to support that Low frequency components > have actually been trained during sessions? Client reports of effects is not > evidence that any training of Low Frequency dynamics occurred. > > > > > > > > Bruce Z. Berman > > > > > > Theta Synchrony > > > > > > Hi Mark, > > You asked my thoughts about " theta left frontal to posterior synchrony " as > the underlying mechanism of alpha-theta training. You cited Gruzelier [1]. > Gruzelier cited von Stein [2] and Aftanas [3]. Let me know if you need those > articles. I apologize in advance for my errors in interpreting the > literature. > > I don't think this is the mechanism behind typical alpha theta effects, > since that tradition involves only posterior electrodes and may train theta > and alpha amplitudes individually. That is why in theta-alpha amplitude > training the hallmark feature is the alpha-theta amplitude crossover. This > is an indicator of drowsiness or hypnagogic state. , et al [4] found no > correlation between the TA crossover and production of imagery. > > In traditional alpha-theta amplitude training there is no built in > flexibility for the fact that one is changing the amplitudes of frequency > bands (theta and alpha) that normally take much of their cues from phase > shifts at lower frequencies. This AM-PM (amplitude modulation - phase > modulation) relationship is a characteristic of 1/f power law systems such > as neuronal assemblies. > > In contrast to amplitude training, synchrony training can be configured to > use theta phase shifts to drive alpha or gamma amplitude shifts. The > hallmark of this approach is not the T-A amplitude crossover, but rather is > the theta-alpha phase reset with its relationship to intelligence and valid > perception. > > Another characteristic of T-A amplitude training is that it is done eyes > closed and with relaxing sounds (both the sound and the flow of water > exhibit a type of 1/f feature described as " pink noise " ). However, I have > found TAG synchrony to be best performed eyes open, although, depending upon > network targets, one may want to avoid using central foveal vision because > it is anti-correlated with the default mode network. > > Since I conceive of T-A synchrony training as different than T-A amplitude > training, I do not hold that the goal of synchrony is also the hypnagogic > state accompanying T-A crossover, so I usually do not try to reward with > hypnagogic sounds. My preferred reward for adults (that rarely works with > troubled children) is to have theta synchrony reward by turning off a loud > hum, and to reward alpha synchrony by turning off pink noise. If the client > can avoid excess beta activity (e.g., spindling) then a loud alert sound can > be avoided as well. I simply point out the 3 types of noise and ask the > client to make them all go away. Thus the reward and encouragement for being > in this state is to sit in utter quiet paying attention to the mental > states, however they might be perceived. I believe this is an important goal > since much of infant affect management is learned by the mother withdrawing > stimulation when appropriate and allowing the infant to self-regulate in > quiet when possible. > > Theta alpha synchrony, primarily in the anterior-posterior communications, > is required for valid perception according to Varela [5], et al. > > In his studies of meditation [6] Aftanas (Russian Academy of Medical > Sciences) documented the particular importance of theta and alpha synchrony > between the left frontal cortex (e.g., F3) and the parietal areas (P3, Pz & > P4). Like Klimesch he breaks the alpha clinical band into 3 sub-bands: Low > alpha (6-8 Hz), Mid alpha (8-10 Hz) and hi alpha (10-12 Hz). > Desynchronization in these 3 bands is associated with 1) alertness and > vigilance (Lo Alpha), 2) expectancy (Mid Alpha), and 3) cognitive processing > (Hi Alpha). The particular NFB alpha parameters used for a session can thus > have individual significance for the client. > > Because of the effects of theta and alpha phase modulation on gamma > amplitude (a consequence of the 1/f power law), it is interesting to look at > different gamma patterns in meditators as well. Last month in Israel > Berkovich-Ohana et all published a study [7]. Frontal and midline gamma is > associated with default mode network functions (self-referential) and, of > course, is decreased with attentional demands. However the lateral and > posterior gamma is increased in attention and especially in meditators. > Lehmann [8] showed that a skilled meditator could change gamma distribution > at will by altering the meditation technique: increased right posterior > occipital gamma activity in image visualization, increased left > central-temporal area in mantra verbalizers. Those practicing emptiness > meditation and reconstitution of the self produced increased gamma activity > in the right superior frontal and right temporal-parietal sites - areas > linked to altered sense of self [9]. > > Interestingly they also showed that very early in the practice of > mindfulness meditation neural plasticity is increased in the > self-referential networks (DMN) as well as the attentional networks. I like > to paraphrase Siegel's definitions of mindfulness meditation: being aware of > the modifications of the mind accompanied by the attitudes of curiosity, > openness, acceptance and appreciation. In my opinion this is a useful > definition for neurofeedback training as well. If so, then the data of > meditation studies may have special relatedness to neurofeedback training. > > Here is another interesting thing about 8.5-12.5 Hz periodicity. Now I am > not talking about the posterior dominant (alpha) rhythm, but I am talking > about discrete state changes in the brain which occur in this frequency > range and involved the entire cortex. These are called microstates. They > have nothing to do with the brain state technology company. Most people > chronically display 4 or 5 characteristic states. They occur in different > sequences and last varying times. > > These microstates have been found to correlate to 4 of the resting state > networks (not including the DMN), [10] and their sequencing is disordered in > common conditions such as depression, dementia and schizophrenia. This may > be one reason that 10 Hz light flicker improves recognition memory in older > people [11]. This may be one of the reasons that alpha training (also in the > 8.5-12.5 Hz range) is also important in brain state regulation. One > important point to remember as we study brain microstates, is that we are > used to thinking of the 1/f EEG in terms of the frequency domain, i.e., the > power and coherence in the different clinical frequency bands. We have not > looked completely yet at the time domain itself. As you will see from the > literature, monitoring brain microstates, each lasting 80-120 ms, is very > different than watching frequency bins change. > > When I started neurofeedback in 2008 I was fortunate to learn about the > resting state networks. They have been well documented as disordered in a > wide range of difficult clinical conditions including addiction, Alzheimer's > disease, anxiety, autism, ADD, bipolar disorder, chronic depression, chronic > pain, fibromyalgia, Parkinson's disease, PTSD, schizophrenia, etc. [12] The > default mode network has anterior connectivity hubs involving the med > prefrontal cortex and anterior cingulate, and a posterior connectivity hub > at the precuneus and posterior cingulate area. > > When I was first exposed to alpha-theta training for PTSD I was surprised > the training was all posterior. I was commonly met with skepticism about the > safety or suitability of up-training frontal theta. Two facts made me > persist. One is that although the presence of polymorphic theta (as in ADHD) > is associated with inflammation and cytokine imbalance, the type of theta > trained is, by the nature of the Fourier transform, may be rhythmic theta. > Rhythmic theta is sometimes known as the Cigánek rhythm or frontal midline > theta. Its presence is associated with improved self-regulation. > > Another reason I persisted and started trying theta alpha gamma synchrony in > the midline is because the anterior cingulate and the insula are part of the > salience network that directs resting state network changes. In my opinion > it begs to be included in the neurofeedback. And in order for the salience > network to have valid input, there must be long distance alpha-theta > synchrony. > > Although I need to be discrete with the details for a few weeks, a group I > am working with has shown that SMR neurofeedback for ADHD strengthens > default mode network functionality! A common question I hear is how can SMR > training at Cz strengthen resting state functional connectivity (rsFC) > across the cortex? This may be because one of the microstates, " D " , has > activity centered around the combined Fz-Cz area. And as we now know, brain > microstate management has a direct link to resting state activity. This is, > of course, in addition to the other benefits that come from learning to > self-regulate corticothalamic loop timing. > > I find it interesting that heart rate variability training often involves > about 6 breaths per minute. The frequency of 6 per minute (6 per 60 seconds) > is exactly the same as the frequency of 1 per 10 seconds (1/10s) and is the > same as 0.01/1 second = 0.01 Hz. Since the resonant frequency of the default > mode network is 0.013 Hz and that of the anti-correlated attentional network > is 0.016 Hz (both very close to 0.01 Hz, it is very possible that resonant > breathing at the same frequency pumps these networks. This may be the basis > for Takahashi et al's 2005 suggestion [13] that deviation from the normal > power spectrum of the heart rate variability interfered with appropriate > modulation of alpha and theta in naive meditators. Here again we see a > little into the nature of the 1/f power laws that model reality. Phase > modulation of low frequencies (such as 0.01 Hz or even 10 Hz) feeds > amplitude modulation of higher bands such as beta and gamma. Monto, et al > (2008) said very clearly that " infraslow fluctuations reflect the > excitability dynamics of cortical networks. This is as clear and believable > explanation for both the positive effects of infra-slow frequency training > and also the adverse reactions. > > This 1/f characteristic of " feeding of high frequency amplitude shifts by > low frequency phase shifts " is probably the main reason why neurofeedback > can be dangerous. Both infra-low frequency NFB and synchrony NFB can > encourage beta spindling. Beta spindling, when observable, usually appears > as a fairly isolated peak of beta activity in a very narrow range, such as > 20-22 Hz. It may best be considered a sign of irritated or kindled cortex. > If your " inhibit instruments " are set to auto-threshold then beta in a > narrow range, say 20-22 Hz can increase significantly, and your > auto-threshold will merely elevate in order to accommodate the increased > amplitude. Forty percent of frontal lobe epilepsy is not apparent on routine > EEG even with provocation. If you see any change in beta spindling that is > accompanied by any behavioral sign, such as sudden restless legs or change > in demeanor, you may be dealing with paroxysmal kindled cortex - seizure by > definition. > > Ultimately attempting to change frontal metabolism with neurofeedback may > lead to problems if the client has imbalance in glutathione and glutamate. > One of the first questions I ask clients is whether or not there is any > bipolar disorder or schizophrenia in the family. If so, there is likely a > 20-40% reduction in frontal glutathione. This is actually a very common > condition. In my " theory of synaptic recidivism " (www.cortexercise.com) I > summarize some of the literature showing that all of the disorders that are > so common and difficult to treat (such as the list I gave above and [12]) > are characterized by disordered excitation (glutamate poorly moderated by > the reduced levels of glutathione). Because all learning (and > neuroplasticity in general) requires significant inflammation for synaptic > remodeling, and since the anti-inflammatory glutathione is in short supply > in chronic illness, and since the average American diet contains possibly 20 > times more excitotoxins (such as MSG) than it did 15 years ago when MSG was > relabeled " natural spices " , change is difficult or impossible for some > clients. > > N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC) is a generally safe dietary amino acid that provides > the cysteine that is rate limiting in glutathione synthesis. Perhaps that is > why the journal Biological Psychiatry has just pre-published results of a > study showing effectiveness of NAC in treating autistic children [15]. Other > problems find significant benefit from NAC, e.g., bipolar disorder, > schizophrenia, trichotillomania, gambling, addiction. When attempting to > optimize any sort of neurofeedback it may be important realize that there is > already an imbalance in excitation, and microstate management will be > difficult without neuroprotection. I have seen over-arousal occur with tDCS > as well, and it is often relieved by NAC (best accompanied by other > nutraceuticals). > > Neuroprotection and neuroplasticity are largely related to the infra-slow > frequencies characteristic of resting state networks [16]. These lower > frequencies are the Archimedean lever that raises the higher clinical EEG > bands. > > Thank you for the question, Mark. I find it thought provoking. Perhaps > others could chime in here. > > Best wishes, > > Dailey > > Near San Francisco CA > > [1] Gruzelier J (2008) - A theory of alpha-theta neurofeedback, creative > performance enhancement, long distance functional connectivity and > psychological integration. Cognitive Processes. Published online 11 Dec > 2008. > > [2] von Stein A, et al (2000) - Different frequencies for different scales > of cortical integration - From local gamma to long range alpha-theta > synchronization. International Journal of Psychophysiology 38 2000. 301-313 > > [3] Aftanas LI, et al (2001) - Human anterior and frontal midline theta and > lower alpha reflect emotionally positive state and internalized attention - > EEG investigation of meditation. Neuroscience Letters 310(2001);57-60, > > [4] JP, et al (2000) - Comparison of alpha-theta, alpha and EMG > neurofeedback in production of alpha-theta crossover and occurrence of > visualizations. Journal of Neurotherapy, Vol. 4(1) 2000 > > [5] Varela F, et al (2001) - The brainweb - Phase synchronization and > large-scale integration. Nature Reviews Neuroscience, Volume 2 April 2001 p > 229. > > [6] Aftanas LI, et al (2001) - Human anterior and frontal midline theta and > lower alpha reflect emotionally positive state and internalized attention - > EEG investigation of meditation. Neuroscience Letters 310(2001);57-60, > > [7] Berkovich-Ohana A, et al (2012) - Mindfulness-induced changes in gamma > band activity – Implications for the default mode network, self-reference > and attention. Clinical Neurophysiology 123(2012);700-710. > > [8] Lehmann D, et al (2001) - Brain sources of EEG gamma frequency during > volitionally meditation-induced, altered states of consciousness, and > experience of the self. Psychiatry Res 2001;108:111–21. > > [9] BL, et al )2001) - Neuroanatomy of the self: evidence from > patients with frontotemporal dementia. Neurology 2001;57:817–21. > > [10] Britz J, et al (2010) - BOLD correlates of EEG topography reveal rapid > resting-state network dynamics. NeuroImage 52 (2010) 1162–1170 > > [11] J, et al (2006) - 10 Hz flicker improves recognition memory in > older people. BMC Neuroscience 2006, 7:21 > > [12] Broyd SJ, et al (2009) - Default-mode brain dysfunction in mental > disorders - A systematic review. Neuroscience and Biobehavioral Reviews 33 > (2009) 279–296 > > [13] Takahashi T, et al (2005) - Changes in EEG and autonomic nervous > activity during meditation and their association with personality traits. > International Journal of Psychophysiology 55 (2005) 199– 207. > > [14] Monto S, et al (2008) - Very slow EEG fluctuations predict the dynamics > of stimulus detection and oscillation amplitudes in humans. The Journal of > Neuroscience, August 13, 2008 • 28(33):8268–8272. > > [15] Hardan AY, et al (2012) - A Randomized Controlled Pilot Trial of Oral > N-Acetylcysteine in Children with Autism. Biol Psychiatry in press. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Hi , The shift you speak of has already occured with Valdene Brown's Neuroptimal software which uses over 16 thresholds to target emergent variability using Garbore transforms. The targets are not based on amplitude but rather measures of intensity. Sieg Othmer mentioned that he believes it targets instabilities and I agree with him in part. Not all auto thresholding is the same. I believe that Val's software is more likely to catch beta spindling with it's auto thresholding than one could do manualy. If there is a change, either up or down, in the intensity in any of multiple targets at C3 or C4 feedabck is briefly inturrupted engaging the the orienting reflex. This strategy of seems much more likely to catch " spindling " or bursts of very short intensities. Perhaps this is why side effects are rarely noticed with such an approach. Someone once questioned Val about how his software can detect instabilities or what he calls " turbulence " just using c3 and c4 as placement and he made an analogy to earthquake detection so far from where the activtity actualy began. This metaphore and other things he has written over the years very much reminds me of some of the things you wrote below. Bruce , " Dailey " <ddailey@...> wrote: > > Hello Bruce, > > > > It's nice to hear from you. I hope you are well. > > > > I will repeat your questions/observations below. I apologize in advance for > some of my unusual analogies, and hope there might be something useful. > > > > 1: Your mention of Beta spindling within the context of Othmer's low > frequency training due to Harmonic effects has me wondering about the same > for breath training. In other words given the low frequency components of > breathing at certain rates, isn't there a danger of triggering beta > spindling with this too? > > > > 1. I suspect this is exactly true. Hyperventilation (along with photic > stimulation) is a regularly used activation technique to provoke > epileptiform responses on the EEG and thus assist in diagnosis. Even people > breathing at 6 breaths per minute (0.01 Hz) often hyperventilate. In the > deepest recesses of the fractally folded lung tissue, the precise balance > between ventilation and blood perfusion is under control of the social > engagement system via the myelinated ventral vagus system. > > > > 2: On the topic of harmonic or resonant effects, can this work the other way > too with higher frequencies rippling down the spectrum when trained? > > > > 2. I believe the answer is yes, but I prefer to phrase it differently > because I think we are talking about different phenomena than harmonic or > resonant effects. > > > > I predict that huge paradigm shifts are in the works and they will involve > several topics currently exciting the physics community. > > > > mountain of salt or sand (or neural avalanches) self organized criticality. > Shifting the relationship in the bottom of the mountain can have a profound > effect on the amplitude of the structures at the top of the mountain. The > neural avalanches appear to be accompanied by phase resets. The concepts of > harmonic and resonant effects are more related to Pythagorean and linear > relationships. You might really enjoy the following link. > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u573PyXo-pY & feature=related> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u573PyXo-pY & feature=related > > > > I prefer to focus on the fact that phase modulation of lower frequencies > controls amplitude of higher frequencies. This is a characteristic of 1/f > power law systems. The deeper relationship between phases of all the lower > frequencies to the amplitude of the higher frequencies is like the > self-recurring similarities no matter how you scale the fractal. If you > train a person to vary gamma for example, without checking you can't be sure > whether or not you are actually phase shifting in any band all the way down > to the EEG frequencies associated with the resting state networks. > > > > Sometimes I try to pretend NFB didn't yet exist. Since self-regulation of > temperature has been shown to help a variety of conditions, and > self-regulation of HRV has shown to help as well, then I ask myself what > would be the best sort of self regulation to encourage in the brain with the > help of some sensor. I won't bother you with the details of my thoughts, but > I would feed back a signal designed to always allowed the brain (if > possible) to explore its own use of the relationship of low frequency phase > and high frequency amplitude shifts. I would want the signal to be scale > invariant and safe to use anywhere on the head. I would like it, for starts, > to train self-regulation in the midline. In those trained in mindfulness > meditation the midline gamma (DMN) is higher at rest than in controls; > during tasks it is lower in meditators than in meditators. > > > > 3: There is an important theoretical and empirical hurdle that needs to be > crossed before any hypothesis of LFT causing beta spindling can be > supported. What is the theoretical rational that this can be trained with > such large time lags due to the nature of the signal? I don't think operant > conditioning as a model would support that such signals can be trained. Also > where is the empirical evidence to support that Low frequency components > have actually been trained during sessions? Client reports of effects is not > evidence that any training of Low Frequency dynamics occurred. > > > > 3. Bruce, that is a fantastic point. > > > > I don't mind calling it low frequency training. I do mind calling it low > frequency amplitude training. > > > > 0.01 Hz and 0.1 Hz respectively represent waves that take between 10 and 100 > seconds to complete. > > > > At these low frequencies I often find that changing the filter settings > provides the brain with an additional challenge to master. It is like going > rock climbing and getting to the top. If you need more training you don't > necessarily have to go up further. Instead you can go sideways. > > > > I hear of people programming their software so they can dial in frequencies > of 0.00001 Hz. This is a wave that takes precisely 1 day (24 hours) to roll > by and reveal its peak to peak amplitude. It is indeed a strain when someone > claims they measured and then trained the amplitude of a wave that takes > from 15 min to 24 hours. Even at 0.10 Hz (6 per minutes) to train the peak > to peak amplitude would require 15 minutes to measure at least one cycle, > then 15 minutes more to train one cycle only, and then 15 minutes to measure > the result. This 45 minutes. 3 waves have occurred. I myself would like to > know where the NFB training is in this model. So let's forget amplitude a > while. Besides, the 1/f power laws suggest that underneath every amplitude > manipulation (even at infra low frequencies), there may be a phase shift in > even a lower frequency which is responsible. > > > > This is a difficult concept for some people so I prepared 2 stories. When > you read them, remember that when the story talks about the amplitudes of > waves on the sea, we are going to be talking about surface ripples like > regular EEG, and then the ultimate phase shifts at lower frequencies. > Consider if you were riding on a boat in a very choppy sea. As you bobbed up > and down you could measure the peak-to-peak amplitudes of the various waves. > But, without additional instrumentation, you would not be aware of the slow > rise and fall due to the tide. > > > > Story 1: One day a simple blind person from the mountain, who never heard > about tides or the moon or gravity, made a visit with a local person to the > sea. The blind person asks, " The water is going up and down some - is it > safe? " Yes " , says his companion, " those are fast and slow waves, but the > tide comes and goes every 24 hours (0.00001 Hz) and you should be concerned > about the amplitude. " " Don't worry, " said the blind person, " I just measured > the variations in the amplitude of the water for a full clinical 50 minutes. > I know how high the tide will be today. " Of course this is a silly story. > Clearly there is no algorithm he could have known (even if he had Ben > lin's Almanac) that allows him to predict the future. He returned to > the mountain. His best friends congratulated him for measuring the tide. > > > > Story 2: The blind man who measured the " tide " in 50 minutes received word > that shortly after his visit the tide had been uncharacteristically low and > the water could not irrigate the low-lands. The blind man studied and > mediated several years until he realized that if he could shift the Earth's > core to change the gravitational center away from the sea, then the sea > might raise enough to irrigate the land. He wondered how to do it. [Note: at > this point I am writing science fiction since we barely know how to do > feedback training to people and certainly not to planets.] Suppose, like the > ancients said, Gaia (Earth) is sentient. Certainly her core shifts > spontaneously and, along with the moon, alters the gravitational pull on the > water. What if we could put in sea-brakes (filters/inhibits) to stop every > single higher frequency wave on the surface of the water, to have it like > the smoothest lake? Then certainly our dipsticks will be monitoring the > moment-to-moment slow shifting of the earth's core. In a stroke of genius he > decided to plant a tree every time the core shifted and the water rose. > After 40 sessions (twice per day because Gaia was acute) the water rose and > the lowlands were irrigated. > > > > The villagers planned to give him a reception with great honors, and to > support him in his efforts. Unfortunately the leaders wanted to siphon all > discretionary funds into a war chest in order to disadvantage and plunder > the neighbors, who they had already carefully painted as the axis of evil > for the sake of those with moral issues. They had a very clever statistician > come to the sea and do exactly what the blind man had done before. He > measured the sea amplitudes for 50 minutes and declared that it was exactly > the same as before. The treatment was pronounced worthless. The blind man > left disappointed. But once per month he was paid by private citizens to > come raise the tide and moisten the fields. > > > > All the other planets were envious that Gaia's ecosystem was learning > self-regulation. End of silly stories. > > > > I am not as keen as you on finding support that low frequency components > have actually been trained. I think it nice but not necessary. During a > session you can train a person a lot. You can see in the movements on the > instruments the client's brain shifting every time the terrain is switched. > The person may feel a variety of states. I ask " would this state be useful > for you? " And I get real interesting answers. At the end of the session I > don't care at all if I changed amplitude of the low frequency waves > permanently. I will simply be with the client while he/she explores the > enriched interactive environment that points toward state changes. The real > value of a brain state to the neural networks resides in how easy that state > is to obtain when needed. > > > > White willow bark was used for pain and inflammation for centuries before it > was discovered that it's active component could be synthesized. It is > commonly called Aspirin. Somehow people felt better using it now that we > knew it alters the cyclooxygenase (COX) pathways. Now that everyone is > comfortable with the explanation, death and disease due non-steroidal > anti-inflammatory drugs is on the increase. New discoveries continue to lead > to new theories about how things are connected. And that is the thing about > theories. I can't remember who said " Theories are neither true nor false, > they are simply useful or not useful. " > > > > As far as support for the hypothesis of LFT causing beta spindling, this is > not an hypothesis - it is an easy observation to make. The reason, I think, > that more LFT practitioners are not aware of this is because they use their > gear with auto-thresholds activated. Besides, it can become daunting to > think of meaningfully fussing with so many inhibit bins. I find it quite > common that a client will start feeling some discomfort accompanied by an > elevation in a particular inhibit beta inhibit bin. It is up to you what to > do at this point. I might bring the frequency up until the rogue beta bin > goes down and behavior returns to normal; or I might mute all feedback from > the " low frequency " reward and only focus on shaping beta manually. I have > one client who can raise or lower any one of 4 individual beta bins at will. > He practiced to visualize my screen which he calls a dashboard. When he > starts to get an anxiety attack he visualizes the dashboard and repeats what > he had done to control the beta spindling. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > From: [mailto: ] On > Behalf Of Bruce Z. Berman > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 1:29 PM > Dailey; > Subject: Re: Theta Synchrony > > > > > > Hi , > > > > Glad to see you posting. Some associations and questions below; > > > > > > 1: Your mention of Beta spindling within the context of Othmer's low > frequency training due to Harmonic effects has me wondering about the same > for breath training. In other words given the low frequency components of > breathing at certain rates, isn't there a danger of triggering beta > spindling with this too? > > > > 2: On the topic of harmonic or resonant effects, can this work the other > way too with higher frequencies rippling down the spectrum when trained? > > > > 3: There is an important theoretical and empirical hurdle that needs to be > crossed before any hypothesis of LFT causing beta spindling can be > supported. What is the theoretical rational that this can be trained with > such large time lags due to the nature of the signal? I don't think operant > conditioning as a model would support that such signals can be trained. Also > where is the empirical evidence to support that Low frequency components > have actually been trained during sessions? Client reports of effects is not > evidence that any training of Low Frequency dynamics occurred. > > > > > > > > Bruce Z. Berman > > > > > > Theta Synchrony > > > > > > Hi Mark, > > You asked my thoughts about " theta left frontal to posterior synchrony " as > the underlying mechanism of alpha-theta training. You cited Gruzelier [1]. > Gruzelier cited von Stein [2] and Aftanas [3]. Let me know if you need those > articles. I apologize in advance for my errors in interpreting the > literature. > > I don't think this is the mechanism behind typical alpha theta effects, > since that tradition involves only posterior electrodes and may train theta > and alpha amplitudes individually. That is why in theta-alpha amplitude > training the hallmark feature is the alpha-theta amplitude crossover. This > is an indicator of drowsiness or hypnagogic state. , et al [4] found no > correlation between the TA crossover and production of imagery. > > In traditional alpha-theta amplitude training there is no built in > flexibility for the fact that one is changing the amplitudes of frequency > bands (theta and alpha) that normally take much of their cues from phase > shifts at lower frequencies. This AM-PM (amplitude modulation - phase > modulation) relationship is a characteristic of 1/f power law systems such > as neuronal assemblies. > > In contrast to amplitude training, synchrony training can be configured to > use theta phase shifts to drive alpha or gamma amplitude shifts. The > hallmark of this approach is not the T-A amplitude crossover, but rather is > the theta-alpha phase reset with its relationship to intelligence and valid > perception. > > Another characteristic of T-A amplitude training is that it is done eyes > closed and with relaxing sounds (both the sound and the flow of water > exhibit a type of 1/f feature described as " pink noise " ). However, I have > found TAG synchrony to be best performed eyes open, although, depending upon > network targets, one may want to avoid using central foveal vision because > it is anti-correlated with the default mode network. > > Since I conceive of T-A synchrony training as different than T-A amplitude > training, I do not hold that the goal of synchrony is also the hypnagogic > state accompanying T-A crossover, so I usually do not try to reward with > hypnagogic sounds. My preferred reward for adults (that rarely works with > troubled children) is to have theta synchrony reward by turning off a loud > hum, and to reward alpha synchrony by turning off pink noise. If the client > can avoid excess beta activity (e.g., spindling) then a loud alert sound can > be avoided as well. I simply point out the 3 types of noise and ask the > client to make them all go away. Thus the reward and encouragement for being > in this state is to sit in utter quiet paying attention to the mental > states, however they might be perceived. I believe this is an important goal > since much of infant affect management is learned by the mother withdrawing > stimulation when appropriate and allowing the infant to self-regulate in > quiet when possible. > > Theta alpha synchrony, primarily in the anterior-posterior communications, > is required for valid perception according to Varela [5], et al. > > In his studies of meditation [6] Aftanas (Russian Academy of Medical > Sciences) documented the particular importance of theta and alpha synchrony > between the left frontal cortex (e.g., F3) and the parietal areas (P3, Pz & > P4). Like Klimesch he breaks the alpha clinical band into 3 sub-bands: Low > alpha (6-8 Hz), Mid alpha (8-10 Hz) and hi alpha (10-12 Hz). > Desynchronization in these 3 bands is associated with 1) alertness and > vigilance (Lo Alpha), 2) expectancy (Mid Alpha), and 3) cognitive processing > (Hi Alpha). The particular NFB alpha parameters used for a session can thus > have individual significance for the client. > > Because of the effects of theta and alpha phase modulation on gamma > amplitude (a consequence of the 1/f power law), it is interesting to look at > different gamma patterns in meditators as well. Last month in Israel > Berkovich-Ohana et all published a study [7]. Frontal and midline gamma is > associated with default mode network functions (self-referential) and, of > course, is decreased with attentional demands. However the lateral and > posterior gamma is increased in attention and especially in meditators. > Lehmann [8] showed that a skilled meditator could change gamma distribution > at will by altering the meditation technique: increased right posterior > occipital gamma activity in image visualization, increased left > central-temporal area in mantra verbalizers. Those practicing emptiness > meditation and reconstitution of the self produced increased gamma activity > in the right superior frontal and right temporal-parietal sites - areas > linked to altered sense of self [9]. > > Interestingly they also showed that very early in the practice of > mindfulness meditation neural plasticity is increased in the > self-referential networks (DMN) as well as the attentional networks. I like > to paraphrase Siegel's definitions of mindfulness meditation: being aware of > the modifications of the mind accompanied by the attitudes of curiosity, > openness, acceptance and appreciation. In my opinion this is a useful > definition for neurofeedback training as well. If so, then the data of > meditation studies may have special relatedness to neurofeedback training. > > Here is another interesting thing about 8.5-12.5 Hz periodicity. Now I am > not talking about the posterior dominant (alpha) rhythm, but I am talking > about discrete state changes in the brain which occur in this frequency > range and involved the entire cortex. These are called microstates. They > have nothing to do with the brain state technology company. Most people > chronically display 4 or 5 characteristic states. They occur in different > sequences and last varying times. > > These microstates have been found to correlate to 4 of the resting state > networks (not including the DMN), [10] and their sequencing is disordered in > common conditions such as depression, dementia and schizophrenia. This may > be one reason that 10 Hz light flicker improves recognition memory in older > people [11]. This may be one of the reasons that alpha training (also in the > 8.5-12.5 Hz range) is also important in brain state regulation. One > important point to remember as we study brain microstates, is that we are > used to thinking of the 1/f EEG in terms of the frequency domain, i.e., the > power and coherence in the different clinical frequency bands. We have not > looked completely yet at the time domain itself. As you will see from the > literature, monitoring brain microstates, each lasting 80-120 ms, is very > different than watching frequency bins change. > > When I started neurofeedback in 2008 I was fortunate to learn about the > resting state networks. They have been well documented as disordered in a > wide range of difficult clinical conditions including addiction, Alzheimer's > disease, anxiety, autism, ADD, bipolar disorder, chronic depression, chronic > pain, fibromyalgia, Parkinson's disease, PTSD, schizophrenia, etc. [12] The > default mode network has anterior connectivity hubs involving the med > prefrontal cortex and anterior cingulate, and a posterior connectivity hub > at the precuneus and posterior cingulate area. > > When I was first exposed to alpha-theta training for PTSD I was surprised > the training was all posterior. I was commonly met with skepticism about the > safety or suitability of up-training frontal theta. Two facts made me > persist. One is that although the presence of polymorphic theta (as in ADHD) > is associated with inflammation and cytokine imbalance, the type of theta > trained is, by the nature of the Fourier transform, may be rhythmic theta. > Rhythmic theta is sometimes known as the Cigánek rhythm or frontal midline > theta. Its presence is associated with improved self-regulation. > > Another reason I persisted and started trying theta alpha gamma synchrony in > the midline is because the anterior cingulate and the insula are part of the > salience network that directs resting state network changes. In my opinion > it begs to be included in the neurofeedback. And in order for the salience > network to have valid input, there must be long distance alpha-theta > synchrony. > > Although I need to be discrete with the details for a few weeks, a group I > am working with has shown that SMR neurofeedback for ADHD strengthens > default mode network functionality! A common question I hear is how can SMR > training at Cz strengthen resting state functional connectivity (rsFC) > across the cortex? This may be because one of the microstates, " D " , has > activity centered around the combined Fz-Cz area. And as we now know, brain > microstate management has a direct link to resting state activity. This is, > of course, in addition to the other benefits that come from learning to > self-regulate corticothalamic loop timing. > > I find it interesting that heart rate variability training often involves > about 6 breaths per minute. The frequency of 6 per minute (6 per 60 seconds) > is exactly the same as the frequency of 1 per 10 seconds (1/10s) and is the > same as 0.01/1 second = 0.01 Hz. Since the resonant frequency of the default > mode network is 0.013 Hz and that of the anti-correlated attentional network > is 0.016 Hz (both very close to 0.01 Hz, it is very possible that resonant > breathing at the same frequency pumps these networks. This may be the basis > for Takahashi et al's 2005 suggestion [13] that deviation from the normal > power spectrum of the heart rate variability interfered with appropriate > modulation of alpha and theta in naive meditators. Here again we see a > little into the nature of the 1/f power laws that model reality. Phase > modulation of low frequencies (such as 0.01 Hz or even 10 Hz) feeds > amplitude modulation of higher bands such as beta and gamma. Monto, et al > (2008) said very clearly that " infraslow fluctuations reflect the > excitability dynamics of cortical networks. This is as clear and believable > explanation for both the positive effects of infra-slow frequency training > and also the adverse reactions. > > This 1/f characteristic of " feeding of high frequency amplitude shifts by > low frequency phase shifts " is probably the main reason why neurofeedback > can be dangerous. Both infra-low frequency NFB and synchrony NFB can > encourage beta spindling. Beta spindling, when observable, usually appears > as a fairly isolated peak of beta activity in a very narrow range, such as > 20-22 Hz. It may best be considered a sign of irritated or kindled cortex. > If your " inhibit instruments " are set to auto-threshold then beta in a > narrow range, say 20-22 Hz can increase significantly, and your > auto-threshold will merely elevate in order to accommodate the increased > amplitude. Forty percent of frontal lobe epilepsy is not apparent on routine > EEG even with provocation. If you see any change in beta spindling that is > accompanied by any behavioral sign, such as sudden restless legs or change > in demeanor, you may be dealing with paroxysmal kindled cortex - seizure by > definition. > > Ultimately attempting to change frontal metabolism with neurofeedback may > lead to problems if the client has imbalance in glutathione and glutamate. > One of the first questions I ask clients is whether or not there is any > bipolar disorder or schizophrenia in the family. If so, there is likely a > 20-40% reduction in frontal glutathione. This is actually a very common > condition. In my " theory of synaptic recidivism " (www.cortexercise.com) I > summarize some of the literature showing that all of the disorders that are > so common and difficult to treat (such as the list I gave above and [12]) > are characterized by disordered excitation (glutamate poorly moderated by > the reduced levels of glutathione). Because all learning (and > neuroplasticity in general) requires significant inflammation for synaptic > remodeling, and since the anti-inflammatory glutathione is in short supply > in chronic illness, and since the average American diet contains possibly 20 > times more excitotoxins (such as MSG) than it did 15 years ago when MSG was > relabeled " natural spices " , change is difficult or impossible for some > clients. > > N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC) is a generally safe dietary amino acid that provides > the cysteine that is rate limiting in glutathione synthesis. Perhaps that is > why the journal Biological Psychiatry has just pre-published results of a > study showing effectiveness of NAC in treating autistic children [15]. Other > problems find significant benefit from NAC, e.g., bipolar disorder, > schizophrenia, trichotillomania, gambling, addiction. When attempting to > optimize any sort of neurofeedback it may be important realize that there is > already an imbalance in excitation, and microstate management will be > difficult without neuroprotection. I have seen over-arousal occur with tDCS > as well, and it is often relieved by NAC (best accompanied by other > nutraceuticals). > > Neuroprotection and neuroplasticity are largely related to the infra-slow > frequencies characteristic of resting state networks [16]. These lower > frequencies are the Archimedean lever that raises the higher clinical EEG > bands. > > Thank you for the question, Mark. I find it thought provoking. Perhaps > others could chime in here. > > Best wishes, > > Dailey > > Near San Francisco CA > > [1] Gruzelier J (2008) - A theory of alpha-theta neurofeedback, creative > performance enhancement, long distance functional connectivity and > psychological integration. Cognitive Processes. Published online 11 Dec > 2008. > > [2] von Stein A, et al (2000) - Different frequencies for different scales > of cortical integration - From local gamma to long range alpha-theta > synchronization. International Journal of Psychophysiology 38 2000. 301-313 > > [3] Aftanas LI, et al (2001) - Human anterior and frontal midline theta and > lower alpha reflect emotionally positive state and internalized attention - > EEG investigation of meditation. Neuroscience Letters 310(2001);57-60, > > [4] JP, et al (2000) - Comparison of alpha-theta, alpha and EMG > neurofeedback in production of alpha-theta crossover and occurrence of > visualizations. Journal of Neurotherapy, Vol. 4(1) 2000 > > [5] Varela F, et al (2001) - The brainweb - Phase synchronization and > large-scale integration. Nature Reviews Neuroscience, Volume 2 April 2001 p > 229. > > [6] Aftanas LI, et al (2001) - Human anterior and frontal midline theta and > lower alpha reflect emotionally positive state and internalized attention - > EEG investigation of meditation. Neuroscience Letters 310(2001);57-60, > > [7] Berkovich-Ohana A, et al (2012) - Mindfulness-induced changes in gamma > band activity – Implications for the default mode network, self-reference > and attention. Clinical Neurophysiology 123(2012);700-710. > > [8] Lehmann D, et al (2001) - Brain sources of EEG gamma frequency during > volitionally meditation-induced, altered states of consciousness, and > experience of the self. Psychiatry Res 2001;108:111–21. > > [9] BL, et al )2001) - Neuroanatomy of the self: evidence from > patients with frontotemporal dementia. Neurology 2001;57:817–21. > > [10] Britz J, et al (2010) - BOLD correlates of EEG topography reveal rapid > resting-state network dynamics. NeuroImage 52 (2010) 1162–1170 > > [11] J, et al (2006) - 10 Hz flicker improves recognition memory in > older people. BMC Neuroscience 2006, 7:21 > > [12] Broyd SJ, et al (2009) - Default-mode brain dysfunction in mental > disorders - A systematic review. Neuroscience and Biobehavioral Reviews 33 > (2009) 279–296 > > [13] Takahashi T, et al (2005) - Changes in EEG and autonomic nervous > activity during meditation and their association with personality traits. > International Journal of Psychophysiology 55 (2005) 199– 207. > > [14] Monto S, et al (2008) - Very slow EEG fluctuations predict the dynamics > of stimulus detection and oscillation amplitudes in humans. The Journal of > Neuroscience, August 13, 2008 • 28(33):8268–8272. > > [15] Hardan AY, et al (2012) - A Randomized Controlled Pilot Trial of Oral > N-Acetylcysteine in Children with Autism. Biol Psychiatry in press. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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