Re: Re: TEACCH program in NC

January 21, 2002

Hi,

We initially started with TEACCH as well, and also found it lacking

considerable. It definitely is missing a language component. It seemed like

they were giving my son a lot of little tasks, but not requiring any language

from him.

We switched to also using a home ABA based program and my child's progress

soared! The key to that can be finding a good provider though, and I'm not

too familiar with that particular area. As a previous lister suggested, it

may be a difficult area, because it is so TEACCH flooded.

Sharon

Unlocking Autism's

Wings for Little Angels Program

" Helping Those with Autism Soar "

January 21, 2002

>It may be MUCH better now--just wanted to

>caution you.

TEACCH is very much an industry in NC.

I know some in Wake County who tried to sue

for services (Verbal Behavior) and even hired

some pretty hefty attornies. She ended up

dropping the case as attorney fees mounted.

Another friend in the same district was told

during her five hour IEP " We don't do ABA "

and " Greenspan is an idiot " and the school

psychologist took the studies my friend handed

her and said " I already know all about autism "

Another person that I know of through a friend

has a child who is " higher functioning " . THey

have him in a " regular " school rather than a

TEACCH room but she is going to homeschool him

now because their answer to his behavioral

issues is suspension (in the first grade!).

So... It depends.... If you like TEACCH or

need the TEACCH philosophy for your child, you

will get it. If you are looking for something

different... It is really hard.

>Try looking in Winston Salem--a couple of years

>ago an ABA provider (Lovaas replication site) was

>considering a move to a medical center

Barbara has officially moved to the area. They

are no longer an official replication site (not

because they were bad or anything. They disagreed

with Lovaas over when and how to start the replication

research etc.) I would recommend them as ABA consultants.

I *think* Winston-Salem is the only place funding for that sort of thing.

They are setting up a clinical program with a hospital there which is

such a great thing for NC where TEACCH is about the only game in

town.

Another source that would be able to tell you about the local

districts is Feat of NC. Even if you are not doing ABA, they

would have the scoop on how willing districts are to

provide appropriate services.

http://www.featofnc.org/ click on " contact us " to get an actual

person.

Good luck with your move.

January 24, 2002

Theresa,

Okay, I have to respond here, because my experience and knowledge of both

programs (after having tried both) is not consistent with your experience.

First of all, I reaIize that ABA is not for everyone. On the downside, it is

expensive, it's not available everywhere, and it is very intensive and

time-consuming. However, one of the real strengths of ABA is that it teaches

our kids to live in this world.

(before you flame me, just give me a second)

TEACCH (in my experience) adjusts the environment, classroom, home,

structure of activities, to enable the child to function. A few months into

our TEACCH program, I watched TEACCH videotapes that showed their " success "

stories. The children and adults were not using language to communicate

(they really were not communicating much at all on the video). There was a

structured routine to the classroom and the kids were able to follow picture

schedules (velcro schedules stuck to their cubicles) to complete very

specific tasks. But outside of that very structured setting, where did that

leave these kids? I felt literally sick watching the video, because it was

at that moment that I realized that there was no language component to

anything we were doing in our own TEACCH program. My son was given puzzles,

sorting, even screwing and unscrewing a nut and bolt (an interesting stim,

but not very functional), pulling clothespins off a can, etc. All of this

was set up to do in a very structured, left to right, way. Although he was

successful at completing these tasks, there was a problem. Life is not

structured left to right, and outside of those left to right tasks, he

couldn't function.

Alongside with tapes of ABA " successes " , there was no comparison. We've all

seen the videos of the recovered kids, and I've even met a few recovered

kids. Of course that is amazing. However it is, in my opinion, unrealistic

to think that every child will recover. Even the gains that are made by the

children that don't recover are amazing though! The videos I saw of Nina

Lovaas' reading and writing program for the non-verbal children (she refers

to as " visual learners " ) shows wonderful gains in these kids.

I'm glad you are using what you are comfortable with, but, for us, we prefer

the intensity of ABA that has really brought my son great gains. My son is

in first grade and not recovered, but the gains he has made between ABA and

the wonderful help Dr. G has given us has been amazing. He is in regular

ed., academically advanced, loves to play games like Connect Four, races,

Guess Who, Tic Tac Toe, and Hangman. His language is still a little behind

his peers, but he is verbal (something we are truly thankful for, because I

realize that, even with the " best " therapy, this doesn't always happen),

although sometimes still struggles with pronouns, pragmatics, etc. I don't

know what his ultimate outcome will be. Will he recover over time? (Dr.

Goldberg keeps telling me he will. I'm planning on holding him to that <grin>

). I try not to spend a lot of time worrying or wondering about that, but to

try to be content in doing what I know is best for him today. And when I

look back at videos of when we started (at age 3 1/2), I am so thankful that

God led us down this path. We continue to work intensely on his social

behavior, conversation with peers, and social games like baseball and

kickball, etc. And Dr. Goldberg has been great about helping us increase his

alertness, which has made our ABA program more successful by making him more

" teachable " . (We are finally at the point where I am no longer seeing

" staring " spells! Thank you Dr. G!).

We all have to make our own choices, between what works for our child and

fits into our family as well. I hope you do not feel that I am criticizing

your choices, because that is not my intention. I do realize that what

didn't work for us, might work for you, and that ABA might not work for your

child. But I feel like it's important to understand that their are choices

out there for all of us, and share information, positive and negative, about

both.

Peacefully,

Sharon :-)

January 24, 2002

Hi Theresa. I am glad that you have found success with TEACCH.

I think that it might help you to understand why ABA'ers get so

rankled by TEACCH. Ironic really. I used to think that it was

Floortime versus TEACCH but apparently, it isn't. It is TEACCH

versus ABA. How so? Well...

The problem is that in North Carolina *especially* you will

be denied an ABA program. THis is because TEACCH isn't

just an educational methodology in places like NC but a political

decision. It is cheaper per year. If your district has TEACCH

that is *IT*. Teacch isn't just a methodology but a cottage industry.

You can't get ABA. Imagine... Imagine if your

insurance company said " we will cover all things DAN protocal

but if you ask for the protocal to be covered we won't. "

It very frustrating for this branch of science precisely because

they have not just a few years but DECADES of research to

show the effectiveness of ABA and yet... they are having

problems being accepted by school districts...

I have a personal philosophy difference with TEACCH.

It doesn't mean that they are evil or even bad necessarily..

I just don't buy the " life long disability " thing and for *me*

I don't like the overdependence on " visual aides " etc.

As for never hearing about parents of older children...

Well.. some parents have gone into " hiding "

Some have just moved on. Some parents of more

affected children are indeed still hanging on. I know

some parents who have been doing ABA for 10+ years.

(I was recently inspired when a man wrote to say that

they started ABA when his son was 10 and nonverbal

and they changed to Carbone when his son was 18 and

now that his son is 22, he is just learning to speak in

sentences. That was really great!)

I know others who have only been doing it for 2. You may

not hear about them because you aren't directly involved with

the ABA community. There are a number of " infamous "

recovered parents who still stick around the me-list under

pseudonymns. One family recently shared how they finally

told their son about his past.

We have been doing ABA for almost 2.75 years. That isn't

long in the whole scheme of things but.. we are also almost

done with ABA because by luck, science, and the nature

of my child's disorder, he flew through the Lovaas curriculum.

He is now in first grade, without an aide, and has a few friends

and is academically gifted. The TEACCH philosophy and methods

just weren't right for him. There is no way that he could have been

put in an all autistic classroom with mostly nonverbal children.

Some TEACCH programs do operate that way.

An interesting article about how TEACCH has come into

conflict with ABA can be found on this link:

http://www.feat.org/lovaas/

So, if you hear objections to TEACCH, just try to remember that

parents are often speaking about the politics of teacch and

about how it wasn't right for their child. I am glad though, that

you find it helpful for your child.

January 26, 2002

I am new on this forum and don't have an autistic child. I have CFIDS. I

just wanted to say that I was impressed with your story in fact it made

me grin. I have a nephew with autism, he is an adult now and an

aquaintance who has a child with autism, about 10yrs old. I plan on

contacting them both to share what I have learned from Dr. Goldberg.

Gail

Aut2BMiracles@... wrote:

> Theresa,

>

> Okay, I have to respond here, because my experience and knowledge of

> both

> programs (after having tried both) is not consistent with your

> experience.

>

> First of all, I reaIize that ABA is not for everyone. On the

> downside, it is

> expensive, it's not available everywhere, and it is very intensive and

>

> time-consuming. However, one of the real strengths of ABA is that it

> teaches

> our kids to live in this world.

> (before you flame me, just give me a second)

> TEACCH (in my experience) adjusts the environment, classroom, home,

> structure of activities, to enable the child to function. A few

> months into

> our TEACCH program, I watched TEACCH videotapes that showed their

> " success "

> stories. The children and adults were not using language to

> communicate

> (they really were not communicating much at all on the video). There

> was a

> structured routine to the classroom and the kids were able to follow

> picture

> schedules (velcro schedules stuck to their cubicles) to complete very

> specific tasks. But outside of that very structured setting, where did

> that

> leave these kids? I felt literally sick watching the video, because

> it was

> at that moment that I realized that there was no language component to

>

> anything we were doing in our own TEACCH program. My son was given

> puzzles,

> sorting, even screwing and unscrewing a nut and bolt (an interesting

> stim,

> but not very functional), pulling clothespins off a can, etc. All of

> this

> was set up to do in a very structured, left to right, way. Although

> he was

> successful at completing these tasks, there was a problem. Life is

> not

> structured left to right, and outside of those left to right tasks, he

>

> couldn't function.

>

> Alongside with tapes of ABA " successes " , there was no comparison.

> We've all

> seen the videos of the recovered kids, and I've even met a few

> recovered

> kids. Of course that is amazing. However it is, in my opinion,

> unrealistic

> to think that every child will recover. Even the gains that are made

> by the

> children that don't recover are amazing though! The videos I saw of

> Nina

> Lovaas' reading and writing program for the non-verbal children (she

> refers

> to as " visual learners " ) shows wonderful gains in these kids.

>

> I'm glad you are using what you are comfortable with, but, for us, we

> prefer

> the intensity of ABA that has really brought my son great gains. My

> son is

> in first grade and not recovered, but the gains he has made between

> ABA and

> the wonderful help Dr. G has given us has been amazing. He is in

> regular

> ed., academically advanced, loves to play games like Connect Four,

> races,

> Guess Who, Tic Tac Toe, and Hangman. His language is still a little

> behind

> his peers, but he is verbal (something we are truly thankful for,

> because I

> realize that, even with the " best " therapy, this doesn't always

> happen),

> although sometimes still struggles with pronouns, pragmatics, etc. I

> don't

> know what his ultimate outcome will be. Will he recover over time?

> (Dr.

> Goldberg keeps telling me he will. I'm planning on holding him to

> that <grin>

> ). I try not to spend a lot of time worrying or wondering about that,

> but to

> try to be content in doing what I know is best for him today. And

> when I

> look back at videos of when we started (at age 3 1/2), I am so

> thankful that

> God led us down this path. We continue to work intensely on his

> social

> behavior, conversation with peers, and social games like baseball and

> kickball, etc. And Dr. Goldberg has been great about helping us

> increase his

> alertness, which has made our ABA program more successful by making

> him more

> " teachable " . (We are finally at the point where I am no longer seeing

>

> " staring " spells! Thank you Dr. G!).

> We all have to make our own choices, between what works for our child

> and

> fits into our family as well. I hope you do not feel that I am

> criticizing

> your choices, because that is not my intention. I do realize that

> what

> didn't work for us, might work for you, and that ABA might not work

> for your

> child. But I feel like it's important to understand that their are

> choices

> out there for all of us, and share information, positive and negative,

> about

> both.

>

> Peacefully,

>

> Sharon :-)

>

January 26, 2002

Hi Theresa

Just my 2 cents worth as well.

Over here in Western Australia you can only get funding for your child with

a registered ABA provider. That is because the only children that have

recovered here in W.A., did so via ABA, my 2 children were basically the

first. Our Government over here did a lot of research etc. so find out how

best to spend " their " money when they finally believed us that our kids

could be recovered. The result was funding ONLY for ABA, any TEACCH

programmers who wanted Government funding had to switch over to ABA because

that was who was getting results. I totally agree with Sharon's post on the

difference between the two as I found the same as her. Having said that

though, I know many a family who have started out with ABA to get the

basics, such as speech and comprehension and then 12 or 24 months into the

programme switched over to TEACCH so as to get benefits from both. My

philosophy though is that every child is different (take mine for instance,

one will be on the GFCF diet for the rest of his life and the other has NO

dietry problems whatsoever, yet both had a diagnosis), and what works for

one doesn't necessarily work for another so you just have to try EVERYTHING

and see which one is right for your child.

January 30, 2002

-

I was wondering how old your GFCF child is. I have two that are on the

diet - ages 22 months and 8 years. I am interested in finding out how

the kids are the older they get - whether or not they cheat a lot or are

subject to some peer pressure. It looks like, at this point at least,

that they will be on the diet for quite some time to come. Thanks!

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January 31, 2002

Hi

My son has just turned 9 and has been on the diet since he was just over 4.

YES YES YES he does sneak and it is a real nightmare! He does swaps at

school with lunch because we send him with chicken and salads and things (he

hates all gluten free breads!) which looks very exciting to a kid with

vegimite sandwiches and of course vegimite looks really good to a kid who is

never allowed to have it (it's a yeast extract - don't know what kids over

here see in it myself - it's awful!) and of course that lovely soft bread!

I know immediately when he comes home from school if he has had something!

I get the digestive enzymes into him straight away and usually by the next

day he is nearly make to " normal " . We do let him sneak now at birthday

parties etc. as we find it only takes a day or so to get him back right

again so it is a real treat he looks forward to. I can use a little milk

and flour in cooking now and I don't notice any difference in his behaviour.

Incidently our 26 month old son is also on the diet as after 2 kids with a

diagnosis we figured we would do everything possible to try to make sure it

didn't happen again and thought what he didn't have, he wouldn't miss. If

he ever gets a sneak of anything I don't notice anything different in his

behaviour but he gets a runny pooh usually by the end of that day or the one

after which makes me very glad we did not get him vaccinated because I don't

think that is a good sign so where we had thought we would have him on the

diet until he was say 2 1/2 and he had been given clearance that he was

okay, we now think we will just leave him on the diet too. The hard thing

for us also is the fact we have our other son in between who can eat what

ever he likes even though he had a past diagnosis. Doesn't go down well

with the other boys! Sorry I don't suppose I've been of much help!

Re: Re: TEACCH program in NC

-

I was wondering how old your GFCF child is. I have two that are on the

diet - ages 22 months and 8 years. I am interested in finding out how

the kids are the older they get - whether or not they cheat a lot or are

subject to some peer pressure. It looks like, at this point at least,

that they will be on the diet for quite some time to come. Thanks!

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Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

opinion of the Research Institute.

February 1, 2002

-

You have been alot of help. What enzymes are you talking about and does

Dr. G approve of them? My 22 month old daughter is really fast about

stealing food off her sister's plate and we do get runny poop immediately

if she gets some gluten. It would be nice to avoid that. I think I have

my 8 year old fairly well trained at this point to not eat anything I

haven't touched, but I do worry about the upcoming teenage years. I have

tried vegimite when I was fortunate enough to travel to Australia, but I

agree that it is nasty and that your son's lunch sounds much tastier!'

Despite signs that my 22 month old has too, we are vaccinating her -

very slowly. We only do one at a time and space them out every few

months. So far she is doing just fine. We also broke up the MMR and

only gave her the measles so far. I'm so torn about giving her the

vaccine versus possibly getting the disease. After she had pneumonia

last year (at 9 months) I decided to do the DtaP because I knew that

pertussis was going around and I didn't want her to get that. Everything

after that has gone ok too.

Have you tried mail ordering bread for Miss. Robens? Her ANDI

Wonderbread is a big hit with my kids. Just a thought.

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February 1, 2002

,

I have almost 6 y old daughter, she is typical child and almost 3 y autistic

son (mild form). I learned that the only way to prevent stealing - to make

you house gluten-free and it is not that difficult (I am telling this as

full-time working mom!) I hate bake, but I do it now. There are great

recipes in Bette Hagman book (I hope I spell it correct,

mentioned Bette in here book) for bread. actually, I had success only with

here recipes (for bread machine). You can buy great pasta from Canada (let

me know if you need website). Miss Robens is o'key, but they do not make

backorder and many of their products are out of stock. . Authentic food is

better (more expensive though).If you buy Dairy-free in bulk (25 lb.) Miss

Robens is the cheapest place. Do not buy coconut butter form Miss Robens, it

is much cheaper from Omega nutrition and it is the same. Well, I have many

tips from on-line shopping to share, let me know if you need more

information.

We are going to see Dr.Goldberg next month; from what I understand he does

not like enzymes, but it is always your choice

Good luck

Regina