Re: Meanings WAS: Offended by *your* post

[Guest guest]

" Nevermore, nevermore... "

True respect is often earned. Superficial respect is only demanded by

those who lack the true integrity and fairness required for real

respect. That's why Facists often use things like censorship to

impose a formalistic respect. It is as illusory as their self-presumed

claims to divinity.

Courtesy is also inherently culture-specific. In our culture, it's

courtesy to shake hands with one's right hand. In some cultures,

where that is the hand for used wiping oneself along the street,

that's discourteous. So, there's no hard & fast universal rule for

what those terms actually MEAN.

Some people respect money or power or fame. Well, I understand the J-C

G_d doesn't respect anyone ( " God is not a respecter of persons " I

recall from Sunday School). So, if G_d does not require it, then it is

simply a cultural construct that you attempt to impose on others just

like a conceited Fundamentalist. I reject your notion because I have

my own hard-won ideas on the topic. Of course, you are welcome to keep

yours.

When I was in the military, our troops couldn't respect someone who

demanded behaviors by which they themselves weren't willing to

abide--even if that someone was a full-bird colonel. That's also why

Nixon's Watergate scandal was so problematic; or why we dislike dirty

cops--those tasked with enforcing the law should not also be

violators of it. Whether J-C, Pagan, Atheistic, etc., I submit that

is a near universal moral concept. Hypocrisy doesn't breed respect; it

does the opposite. Thus, my conclusion that the actual hypocrisy is

the greater meanness than pointing it out. In that context, it is not

" mean " but rather " brave " to sacrifice one's self for the ultimate

health of the group. It's the least I could do.

Of course you don't need to be reminded of the definitions; any

third-grader can look them up. But you're treating your personal

values like they were handed down on golden tablets from Moses. They

weren't. And THAT's what you have forgotten. In my 20-odd years of

Corporate experience, that's usually what NTs forget...just because

you're in a simple majority doesn't mean that you are right. And

silencing dissenting opinions only makes you FEEL righter. As I said

before, I love a happy ending!

" Nevermore, nevermore... "

Don

P.S., my earlier use of the term " Devil's advocate " was ironic; it was

used to show the common herd tendency to demonize those who oppose

their dangerous and self-destructive habits.

[Guest guest]

Don wrote: " ... <snip> ... True respect is often earned.

Superficial respect is only demanded by those who lack the true

integrity and fairness required for real respect ... <snip> ... "

When an elderly person gets on the bus and all the seats are taken,

I give up my seat to this stranger our of respect. There is nothing

superficial about it and yet, I do not know this person therefore it

is not an earned respect. It is, nonetheless, true respect.

When I am the library, I am as quiet as possible out of respect for

those who not only work at the library but also for those who are

making use of library resources. There is nothing superficial about

it and yet, I do not know most of the people there and therefore it

is not an earned respect. It is, nonetheless, true respect.

I find that your definition of respect is not only narrow and

exceedingly limited, but provides an excuse for those who wish to be

as rude as possible to do so under the guise of giving 'true respect

where true respect is warranted.'

Don wrote: " ... <snip> ... Courtesy is also inherently culture-

specific ... <snip> ... "

There are certain common courtesies that exist worlwide. One of

these courtesies is not using inappropriate language in public.

This message board being a public forum, I would say that the use of

appropriate language is something all members make use of because it

is a courtesy to do so.

Don wrote: " ... <snip> ... So, there's no hard & fast universal

rule for what those terms actually MEAN. "

There are a few basic hard and fast universal rules regarding

courtesy and respect. Perhaps if you would take the time to calm

down and relax a little, you could see the patterns yourself and

then integrate them into your posting style here.

Don wrote: " ... <snip> ... Hypocrisy doesn't breed respect; it

does the opposite. Thus, my conclusion that the actual hypocrisy is

the greater meanness than pointing it out ... <snip> ... "

You go on and on about hypocrisy and tyranny and herd mentalities

but you do not provide anything but conjecture and interpretation

and projection to support your claims. And no one has even hinted

at hypocrisy breeding respect. That, Don, is your own construct.

You own it.

Don wrote: " ... <snip> ... In that context, it is not " mean " but

rather " brave " to sacrifice one's self for the ultimate health of

the group. It's the least I could do. "

Actually, Don, your posts have not done anything for the ultimate

health of the group. If anything, your posts have been -- for the

most part -- disruptive, disrespectful, discourteous, aggressive and

inappropriate. The brave thing to do would be to observe the flow

of the group and then to create your own rhythm within that flow

rather than dam it up with inappropriate actions.

You have not sacrificed any part of yourself in order to move the

group discussions forward. You have, however, sacrificed the

peaceful nature of this group to advance your own agenda, whatever

that agenda might be.

Don wrote: " ... <snip> ... Of course you don't need to be reminded

of the definitions; any third-grader can look them up ... <snip> ... "

Then it will be no problem for you to continue to look up words that

have specific meanings but that you chose to misinterpret. This is

good to know. Thank you for advising us that this will be your

course of action in these sorts of situations. :-)

Don wrote: " ... <snip> ... In my 20-odd years of Corporate

experience, that's usually what NTs forget...just because you're in

a simple majority doesn't mean that you are right. And silencing

dissenting opinions only makes you FEEL righter ... <snip> ... "

You know, Don, " corporate experience " could mean almost anything

from being being a bank teller to being a CEO. The use of the

phrase " corporate experience " does not impress me any more than

fancy titles and initials after one's name does.

And let me remind you that being in the minority doesn't mean that

you are right by virtue of being in the minority.

No one is silencing dissenting opinions in this forum. There are

many points of view that are brought to a number of topics but they

are done so in a respectful and courteous manner. Therefore, your

inference that those with differing points of view are silenced in

this forum is not only completely off-base but ludicrous.

Really now Don, you should stop tilting at windmills. It will

improve your posture and you won't feel the need to continually

sing " The Impossible Dream. "

I'm hoping that you will " nevermore, nevermore " feel the need to be

as aggressive as you have been in this forum up until this point.

Thank you.

Raven

[Guest guest]

Oh I just hate it when people are loud at the library. The unsupervised kids talking on their cell phones just makes me want to puke. I totally understand that kids don't respect the local public library and adults are too scared to do anything about it. What a joke things have become. I tend to think the culture is a consequence of the physical characteristics of a certain race affecting the psychological, affecting the way women act then affecting the way men act. Alot of people can say blending in is the right thing to do but, physically it is not and therefore psychologically, mumbo jumbo, left-wing extremist. Sure it's a melting pot but, democratic influences is what keeps the cultures from getting ahead spiritually, artistically, physically, etc..... It has nothing to do with respect, governing that is. There are so many notions of respect that people are more mindful of respecting the opinions on the origins of respect, a wall, rather than

understanding and respecting. This whole conversation is bogus. ravenmagic2003 <ravenmagic2003@...> wrote: Don wrote: " ... <snip> ... True respect is often earned. Superficial respect is only demanded by those who lack the true integrity and fairness required for real respect ... <snip> ..."When an elderly person gets on the bus and all the seats are taken, I give up my seat to this stranger our of respect. There is nothing

superficial about it and yet, I do not know this person therefore it is not an earned respect. It is, nonetheless, true respect.When I am the library, I am as quiet as possible out of respect for those who not only work at the library but also for those who are making use of library resources. There is nothing superficial about it and yet, I do not know most of the people there and therefore it is not an earned respect. It is, nonetheless, true respect.I find that your definition of respect is not only narrow and exceedingly limited, but provides an excuse for those who wish to be as rude as possible to do so under the guise of giving 'true respect where true respect is warranted.'Don wrote: " ... <snip> ... Courtesy is also inherently culture-specific ... <snip> ..."There are certain common courtesies that exist worlwide. One of these courtesies is not using inappropriate language in

public. This message board being a public forum, I would say that the use of appropriate language is something all members make use of because it is a courtesy to do so.Don wrote: " ... <snip> ... So, there's no hard & fast universal rule for what those terms actually MEAN."There are a few basic hard and fast universal rules regarding courtesy and respect. Perhaps if you would take the time to calm down and relax a little, you could see the patterns yourself and then integrate them into your posting style here.Don wrote: " ... <snip> ... Hypocrisy doesn't breed respect; it does the opposite. Thus, my conclusion that the actual hypocrisy is the greater meanness than pointing it out ... <snip> ..."You go on and on about hypocrisy and tyranny and herd mentalities but you do not provide anything but conjecture and interpretation and projection to support your claims. And no one

has even hinted at hypocrisy breeding respect. That, Don, is your own construct. You own it.Don wrote: " ... <snip> ... In that context, it is not "mean" but rather "brave" to sacrifice one's self for the ultimate health of the group. It's the least I could do."Actually, Don, your posts have not done anything for the ultimate health of the group. If anything, your posts have been -- for the most part -- disruptive, disrespectful, discourteous, aggressive and inappropriate. The brave thing to do would be to observe the flow of the group and then to create your own rhythm within that flow rather than dam it up with inappropriate actions.You have not sacrificed any part of yourself in order to move the group discussions forward. You have, however, sacrificed the peaceful nature of this group to advance your own agenda, whatever that agenda might be.Don wrote: " ... <snip> ... Of course

you don't need to be reminded of the definitions; any third-grader can look them up ... <snip> ..."Then it will be no problem for you to continue to look up words that have specific meanings but that you chose to misinterpret. This is good to know. Thank you for advising us that this will be your course of action in these sorts of situations. :-)Don wrote: " ... <snip> ... In my 20-odd years of Corporate experience, that's usually what NTs forget...just because you're in a simple majority doesn't mean that you are right. And silencing dissenting opinions only makes you FEEL righter ... <snip> ..."You know, Don, "corporate experience" could mean almost anything from being being a bank teller to being a CEO. The use of the phrase "corporate experience" does not impress me any more than fancy titles and initials after one's name does.And let me remind you that being in the minority

doesn't mean that you are right by virtue of being in the minority.No one is silencing dissenting opinions in this forum. There are many points of view that are brought to a number of topics but they are done so in a respectful and courteous manner. Therefore, your inference that those with differing points of view are silenced in this forum is not only completely off-base but ludicrous.Really now Don, you should stop tilting at windmills. It will improve your posture and you won't feel the need to continually sing "The Impossible Dream."I'm hoping that you will "nevermore, nevermore" feel the need to be as aggressive as you have been in this forum up until this point. Thank you.Raven

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/3/2006 2:04:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, julie.stevenson16@... writes:

I am now finding myself wondering how long this is going to go on for :-(

I'm beginning to wonder too. Don asked a question, and when I asked for clarification of what he meant by "T', he seems to have lost interest in me. Perhaps he is concerned that I will fight back and so he prefers to focus on Raven. She has taken a lot of abuse from him in his posts, especially the last few. Typical of a bully though, to run from those who will stand up to them and pick on someone they perceive as being weaker.

I do find it very interesting about Don that he can dish it out but not take it. He was very free with calling other members hypocrites and cows, saying it was his "right" to point these things out and to be confrontational. However, as soon as the tables were turned and he was called on his boorish behavior, he had a tantrum, saying he was being abused and ganged up on by "the herd." Again this is pretty typical behavior. I've seen it a lot in trolls over the years.

[Guest guest]

Raven:

If you have not understood the hypocrisy to be more than mere

conjecture, then you really have druken the Kool-Aid. Of course you're

gonna defend your " peeps " . I never expect you to understand diddly

about my passions.

And you're not impressed with my experience? That's awful hurtful. I

was kinda getting a little impressed by your resorting to logical

falacies like " appeal to authority, " " appeal to custom, " or " threats

of exclusion " , all very " positive " I'm sure.

These are common favorite tactics of the herd. I guess it's hard to

see it when you're deep in the grass, lowing and chewing your cud. Is

it true that you sleep standing up?

I agree this is a bogus conversation. Of course, you can go on being

kind to whoever you want. If that includes coddling war criminals,

that's your issue to bear.

Don

" ... <snip> ... In my 20-odd years of Corporate

> experience, that's usually what NTs forget...just because you're in

> a simple majority doesn't mean that you are right. And silencing

> dissenting opinions only makes you FEEL righter ... <snip> ... "

>

> You know, Don, " corporate experience " could mean almost anything

> from being being a bank teller to being a CEO. The use of the

> phrase " corporate experience " does not impress me any more than

> fancy titles and initials after one's name does.

>

> And let me remind you that being in the minority doesn't mean that

> you are right by virtue of being in the minority.

>

> No one is silencing dissenting opinions in this forum. There are

> many points of view that are brought to a number of topics but they

> are done so in a respectful and courteous manner. Therefore, your

> inference that those with differing points of view are silenced in

> this forum is not only completely off-base but ludicrous.

>

> Really now Don, you should stop tilting at windmills. It will

> improve your posture and you won't feel the need to continually

> sing " The Impossible Dream. "

>

> I'm hoping that you will " nevermore, nevermore " feel the need to be

> as aggressive as you have been in this forum up until this point.

> Thank you.

>

> Raven

>

[Guest guest]

Don wrote: " ... <snip> ... And you're not impressed with my

experience? That's awful hurtful ... <snip> ... "

You are choosing to be hurt because I refuse to be impressed with

things that are not really all that impressive. Anyone can claim to

have 20 years of 'corporate experience' as you have claimed and

still not know anything about anything. Your point in mentioning

having 20 years of 'corporate experience' serves what purpose

exactly in this discussion?

Don wrote; " ... <snip> ... I was kinda getting a little impressed

by your resorting to logical falacies like " appeal to

authority, " " appeal to custom, " or " threats of exclusion " , all

very " positive " I'm sure.

Sarcasm, the lowest form of humour and your a master of it in your

own deceptive fashion. How quaint. ;-)

Don wrote: " ... <snip> ... These are common favorite tactics of

the herd. I guess it's hard to see it when you're deep in the grass,

lowing and chewing your cud. Is it true that you sleep standing up? "

And grade school insults from a man with allegedly 20 years of

corporate experience. I'm certain that upper management found you

equally amusing. :-D

Don wrote: " ... <snip> ... I agree this is a bogus conversation. Of

course, you can go on being kind to whoever you want. If that

includes coddling war criminals, that's your issue to bear. "

Now THERE's a leap in logic if ever there was one! :-D

Because I refuse to be impressed with your alleged 20 years

of 'corporate experience' you allege that I am coddling war

criminals? Whoda thunk it!

Don your posts are boorish and inappropriate at best. While I find

you rather amusing in some bizarre, twisted fashion, you are

nonetheless very disruptive to the board as a whole.

It would be wonderful if you could put that cutting witty repartie

to some good use and actually try to fit in rather than work hard at

causing dissention. I suspect that you might even have something

positive to contribute if you gave yourself the chance to do so.

Give it a try, ok? You might even find out you like this new and

improved version of yourself.

Raven

[Guest guest]

I am now finding myself wondering how long this is going to go on

for :-(

Don, please quit arguing - I think I get the point, you feel badly

done to by this board? you feel that you have been treated unfairly?

Which is odd as you are still posting - yeah okay so you are on

moderation, but believe me if this board was really was as bad as you

insinuate I think your posts would have been deleted and you would

have been banned long ago and that is how some boards work if you

disagree with them. You've been allowed to disagree here, you've been

allowed to get your point across, so please tell me what is the point

continuing this?

" ... <snip> ... I agree this is a bogus conversation.

Of

> course, you can go on being kind to whoever you want. If that

> includes coddling war criminals, that's your issue to bear. "

>

> Now THERE's a leap in logic if ever there was one! :-D

>

> Because I refuse to be impressed with your alleged 20 years

> of 'corporate experience' you allege that I am coddling war

> criminals? Whoda thunk it!

>

> Don your posts are boorish and inappropriate at best. While I find

> you rather amusing in some bizarre, twisted fashion, you are

> nonetheless very disruptive to the board as a whole.

>

> It would be wonderful if you could put that cutting witty repartie

> to some good use and actually try to fit in rather than work hard

at

> causing dissention. I suspect that you might even have something

> positive to contribute if you gave yourself the chance to do so.

> Give it a try, ok? You might even find out you like this new and

> improved version of yourself.

>

> Raven

>