Re: Wisconsin and forced vaccines

[Guest guest]

While I am sympathetic to every parent whose child developed autistic

symptoms relative to receiving vaccinations (and I have a 12 year old

daughter who may be in that category) may I please remind everyone that the

link has not yet been proven. What evidence exists, and it is anecdotal,

seems to indicate that the immune system is triggered in susceptible children

not children at random. If we can get the whole plan funded we can come

up with a way of defining which children are susceptible and change the way

that they are immunized. This is the concept that we have to get across.

Kathy -NNY

[Guest guest]

I would agree that its not " bad batches " of vacines, but vaccines harming

kids with predisposition. HOWEVER, vaccine ingredients as a whole are not the

kind of things I want injected to my or my childrens bodies - regardless of

if they cause autism or not.

[Guest guest]

Kathy,

I agree. I have spoken to parents of kids who were NOT vaccinated.

something or many other things besides vaccines must have triggered those

kids!

Tina M. Hendrix

Cure2000@...

Vice-President, California Coalition

Neuro-Immune Dysfunction Syndromes

Autism Spectrum Disorder, ADD/ADHD, Learning Disorders, Hyperactivity, CFS,

etc.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/7/2002 11:18:24 AM Central Standard Time,

JOSKAT95@... writes:

> may I please remind everyone that the

> link has not yet been proven. What evidence exists, and it is anecdotal,

> seems to indicate that the immune system is triggered in susceptible

> children

> not children at random. If we can get the whole plan funded we can

> come

> up with a way of defining which children are susceptible and change the way

> that they are immunized. This is the concept that we have to get across.

>

Kathy,

While there has been no link proven, it has not been disproved either. And I

agree with you that the immune system is triggered in susceptible children.

I had a seizure from the DTP shot when I was a child. Not every child has

that reaction, but for some reason, I did. My family physician said, " If

vaccines caused autism, every child who receives the vaccine would be

autistic. " But that is not the case. A definate link have been found

linking a vaccine--can't remember which one--with juvenile diabetes. Again,

not every child who receives that vaccine develops juvenile diabetes.

Wisconsin State Rep Burns sponsored and passed a bill giving the government

the power to arrest anyone choosing not to get vaccinated. My email was in

response to that.

While I definately believe in NIDs, I have very little ability to get it

funded. I can't even seem to convince any of my doctors to look into it.

While we are praying, lets say an extra long one that Dr. G will get his

for-profit plan running so that he can get an immune modulator to all of our

children. Then, perhaps, we wont need the non-profit plan.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/7/2002 9:05:22 PM Central Standard Time,

nechapasi@... writes:

> would agree that its not " bad batches " of vacines, but vaccines harming

>

Again, I am NOT against vaccines. I am against FORCED vaccinations of any

kind. The government should not be forcing us to inject ANYTHING into our

kids bodies.

[Guest guest]

Here's a vaccine question, to add to the discussion. If more than one

vaccine is given at one time how can one definitively say which one

caused a reaction? In the case of the chicken pox vaccine I would

imagine that was given separately. However, I have routinely refused

more than one shot at a time for my youngest child. She has and

usually becomes quiet after each vaccine (less speech, more napping,

etc). She snaps out of it after a few days, though. Dr. Goldberg's

recommendation of not vaccinating her if she is at all sick or looks sick

has been helpful too. Until the vaccine issue is resolved it would seem

erring on the side of caution for ALL children wouldn't be a bad

suggestion. Why lump the shots together to begin with? Why tax an

immune system if a child is already sick?

Also, if Wisconsin has something planned for small pox, what the heck

does the Baltimore/DC area have planned???

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[Guest guest]

>Kathy,

Unfortunately, I must agree as well. Had my child been vaccinated, I would

have been convinced that his problems have come from that--therefore, I never

had my child vaccinated. I am opposed to these vaccines and wonder if he would

have been worse had he received them or whether it would have made no

difference.

I find this a totally baffling situation. I hope that we will someday find

an answer to all of this.

M

Kathy,

>I agree. I have spoken to parents of kids who were NOT vaccinated.

>something or many other things besides vaccines must have triggered those

>kids!

>

>Tina M. Hendrix

>Cure2000@...

>Vice-President, California Coalition

>Neuro-Immune Dysfunction Syndromes

>Autism Spectrum Disorder, ADD/ADHD, Learning Disorders, Hyperactivity, CFS,

>etc.

>

>

>

>Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

>the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

>opinion of the Research Institute.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I think that you have enormous power to change things just as every one

else on this list has. We can all contact our legislators and if we are

insistent enough and our cause is an appropriate one things will happen. As a

person who has spent 30 plus years in Public Health I can tell you that there

is well over a half century of documentation proving that vaccines are not

only safe for the majority of recipients but have saved millions and millions

of lives. Taking a stand against vaccines is going to get us no where,

however taking a stand with and saying that for a small, but significant

(and perhaps growing) percentage of individuals, some vaccines can be

extremely dangerous has much more of a chance of being successful. Kathy

-NNY

[Guest guest]

In Germany vaccines are started much later and spread out more. The Germans

believe that the young child's immune system is too immature to handle too

many vaccinations. Having said that however let me point out another problem.

If we put off vaccinating children until they are two, for example, and we

get even one case of some of the diseases that we vaccinate against, we will

be right back where we were before vaccines became available. I personally

have some real question about Hepatitis B and infants. I also am concerned

about chicken pox although I certainly know that a child with chicken pox who

is out in public, instead of home where he should be, is lethal to anyone who

is immune compromised who comes into his vicinity. All of our so called

childhood diseases killed or permanently disabled some children in the US

every year. Obviously they do much more damage in third world countries.

These are difficult issues. Our CDC is responsible for the public health and

that means the total population and the facts are that the majority of

children and adults who are vaccinated are not damaged and are protected from

deadly diseases. We have to get the message out that a minority SEEM to be

damaged and that by funding research this problem can be determined

scientifically and solved. Kathy -NNY

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/9/2002 10:47:20 AM Central Standard Time,

JOSKAT95@... writes:

> taking a stand with and saying that for a small, but significant

> (and perhaps growing) percentage of individuals, some vaccines can be

>

Kathy,

Good point!

Thanks.

[Guest guest]

I believe that every child is different in how he responds to the

immunization shot and something is triggering the immune system to

respond in a whacky way. There is not link between the rise of autism,

pdd and so on and the immunization shots but this theory has not been

proven or disproven. What bothers me and bothers me a lot is the

pressure that pediatricians put on the parents during the visit. Oh your

child will be safer, or what about the rest of the children we need to

protect them as well. Don't you want to send your child to Kindergarten?

We give immunization shots every day and your baby will be OK. They

never take the time to explain the risk or side effects. My son's leg

swelled up double its size and he ran fever for a week. On the way out

of the doctor's office the nurse said, Oh by the way, here is a pamphlet

to read about the shots. They gave me the literature to read after the

fact. It should be required by law to mail or send the info to new

parents before they administer the shot and not after. Did you know that

one of the side effects of the measles shot is hearing loss? Try reading

that on the vaccine box or insert?

(mercy)

whcmccain@... wrote:

>In a message dated 3/7/2002 11:18:24 AM Central Standard Time,

>JOSKAT95@... writes:

>

>

>>may I please remind everyone that the

>>link has not yet been proven. What evidence exists, and it is anecdotal,

>>seems to indicate that the immune system is triggered in susceptible

>>children

>>not children at random. If we can get the whole plan funded we can

>>come

>>up with a way of defining which children are susceptible and change the way

>>that they are immunized. This is the concept that we have to get across.

>>

>

>Kathy,

>While there has been no link proven, it has not been disproved either. And I

>agree with you that the immune system is triggered in susceptible children.

>I had a seizure from the DTP shot when I was a child. Not every child has

>that reaction, but for some reason, I did. My family physician said, " If

>vaccines caused autism, every child who receives the vaccine would be

>autistic. " But that is not the case. A definate link have been found

>linking a vaccine--can't remember which one--with juvenile diabetes. Again,

>not every child who receives that vaccine develops juvenile diabetes.

>

>Wisconsin State Rep Burns sponsored and passed a bill giving the government

>the power to arrest anyone choosing not to get vaccinated. My email was in

>response to that.

>

>While I definately believe in NIDs, I have very little ability to get it

>funded. I can't even seem to convince any of my doctors to look into it.

>While we are praying, lets say an extra long one that Dr. G will get his

>for-profit plan running so that he can get an immune modulator to all of our

>children. Then, perhaps, we wont need the non-profit plan.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is interesting Kathy - thanks.

Given that our son is , we took the precaution of delaying the MMR

vacation for our daughter (2nd child) until she was well over two, on advice

from Dr Goldberg and working with her local paediatrician here. She is now 3

1/2 and doing just fine. If we had known about (now 6 1/2) earlier,

then she wouldn't have had the Chicken Pox jab and I would have baulked at

HEP B also. had his HEP B and HIB boosters at 6 months just after a

bout of croup and antibiotics - it was thereafter that the series of

ear/throat infections and a case of chronic diarrhoea started - likely the

signs of onset and his awful decline. If an immune function test at

birth were available to him and every other child, then vaccines would be

able to be administered in a more managed way (perhaps in a way practised in

Germany) and we could still achieve very high levels of disease protection.

The debate about vaccines hasn't changed much in two years - see the FEAT

article of Jan 31 2000 entitled " Misconception, Vaccines Cause Autism " . WE

still have the blanket rebuttals to the vaccine argument from health

authorities worldwide, but no positive recognition that some children have

immune disorders, and vaccines could be one of a number of antagonists that

set them off.

I wrote this in response to the FEAT article back then:

.......... " " The mere fact that " 5%-15% of vaccines may develop a fever (in

children) 5-12 days after

MMR vaccination and 5% may develop a rash " surely indicates either an immune

response and/or an allergic response to the vaccine or a substance within

it. What proportion of these children have a predisposition to an

auto-immune dysfunction? What are the statistics for DPT or Hep B/HIB?

5%-15% is not " mere " it is in fact a significant proportion of any

population

Taking the middle of then range reported - ie 10% - all we need is 2% of

this ten, and that equates to 1 in 500!! We must concentrate our efforts to

understand more about those children who do react to vaccines and we might

come up with some real answers.................. " " "

Its sad that nothing much has changed.

As Kathy says - we all have to work harder at getting the message out..

Re: Wisconsin and forced vaccines

In Germany vaccines are started much later and spread out more. The Germans

believe that the young child's immune system is too immature to handle too

many vaccinations. Having said that however let me point out another

problem.

If we put off vaccinating children until they are two, for example, and we

get even one case of some of the diseases that we vaccinate against, we will

be right back where we were before vaccines became available. I personally

have some real question about Hepatitis B and infants. I also am concerned

about chicken pox although I certainly know that a child with chicken pox

who

is out in public, instead of home where he should be, is lethal to anyone

who

is immune compromised who comes into his vicinity. All of our so called

childhood diseases killed or permanently disabled some children in the US

every year. Obviously they do much more damage in third world countries.

These are difficult issues. Our CDC is responsible for the public health and

that means the total population and the facts are that the majority of

children and adults who are vaccinated are not damaged and are protected

from

deadly diseases. We have to get the message out that a minority SEEM to be

damaged and that by funding research this problem can be determined

scientifically and solved. Kathy -NNY

Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

opinion of the Research Institute.

[Guest guest]

You are so correct and it is depressing BUT we are closer to getting the

message out on a grand scale than we have ever been! Kathy -NNY