Re: input please

[Guest guest]

While I will not dispute that lack of oxygen at birth could possibly in some

rare case result in sensory issues I would highly doubt it. Lack of oxygen at

birth can result in nothing as infants are much tougher than we think and can

handle insults that would decimate us, or something. If it is something then

it will be a static not dynamic issue. Sensory issues wax and wane which

means they are governed by a dynamic system such as the immune system not the

absence of viable brain tissue which would be the result of oxygen

deprivation. Brain tissue destruction results in loss of function. Kathy

-NNY

[Guest guest]

Khris,

Both of my boys (one is a patient of Dr. G) have had a problem with

unexplained rashes... this has gone one for over a year. The dermatologist

put them on all sorts of things, and with Desonide every few days and

something called Protopic (a new immune modifying lotion, believe it or

not), we kept the rashes under control. If we even missed one day of

applying the medications, the rashes came back with a vengeance.

I tried only using fragrance-free detergent, used a special soap on their

faces (called Roc Enydrial... $18 a bottle from France), etc., etc. The

rashes started when we started having whole wheat pancakes every Saturday

and I discovered Tide antibacterial detergent. I think one or both of these

things triggered it. Of course, we have stopped the detergent and the whole

wheat (we all do the diet to some degree now... no more whole wheat!).

Anyway, my point is that once the rashes started, I think that even though I

removed the triggers, my boys' immune responses didn't know to shut off the

response. As my son has been on Dr. G's protocol, his rash has come

back more slowly if we leave the meds off... this tells me we are calming

his immune system down (Nizoral is playing a role in this). My older son

(not a patient of Dr. G) tried going without milk for Christmas break and

guess what... the rash went away. We were amazed. I have another friend

whose childrens' unexplained rashes disappeared when she took them off of

milk. We have quit buying milk at our house... just ordered the BIG case of

Dari-free (potato milk) from Vance's website!

Anyway, when the immune system is overactive, things go awry all over the

body, and in my kids I guess the rashes were an outward sign. The goal for

us is to calm the immune system. The things the dermatologist prescribed

treated the symptoms but not the underlying problem. I have hope that as my

son moves along with Dr. G's plan, he will eventually be rid of the

rash.

One more comment... my son is always hungry, too. This has not

subsided yet, but he used to have extreme thirst and when we removed whole

grains and milk from his diet, the thirst stopped (and as a bonus he stopped

gaining weight... milk and cheese add a lot of calories). I recently read

that thirst can be a sign of yeast problem (don't know if it is true). I

have also read that many people confuse thirst with hunger. Just a thought.

We ended up having my son looked at by a pediatric metabolic specialist

because his weight was creeping up. She found nothing. We will be taking

him to have a genetic work-up done soon just to make sure there is no

underlying genetic problem we don't know about. Dr. Goldberg suggested this

but also said he thinks there's a strong chance it will come back negative.

We have done the kidney and liver work-ups, too, with normal results. I

don't know what the diagnosis code was for those... they were before we

started with Dr. G.

Good luck... it's frustrating to deal with. I wish we had found Dr.

Goldberg when our son was as young as your daughter. You have a lot of time

to help her get back on track! Hang in there!

Caroline

>On 3/19/02 8:24 PM, " khrisday " <khrisday@...> wrote:

> My daughter will be 3 years old in May, she is under close scrutiny

> because of her birth history (severe meconium aspiration requiring a

> heart/lung bypass machine for the first week of her life) but

> continues to stump the doctors. She has been plagued by yeast

> rashes/infections in the diaper area since before she came home from

> the hospital (not surprising since her first course of antibiotics

> was begun at a few days old), and has eczema/sensitive skin/rashes,

> sensory issues, language issues, and obsessive tendancies. She does

> not fit into any classification, but we do believe she suffers from

> post traumatic stress from her life-saving medical procedures. Today

> we were at the doctors yet again with unexplained rashes- she has an

> itchy, bumpy rash on her bottom and around her mouth for several

> weeks. (this is not diaper rash as she has not been in diapers for

> over a year) The doctor does not know what to do for her, but he did

> at least agree to start her on a course of oral diflucan for the

> chronic yeast problem. Of greater concern to me is the fact that she

> is constantly hungry, and even though we limit her diet she continues

> to gain weight. The doctor has agrees to do some bloodwork for kidney

> and liver function but I want to see if I can add some tests in. What

> tests would benefit her and what diagnosis should they be done under?

> TIA

> Khris

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Both baking soda and charcoal if not used judiciously in both adults and

children can cause great problems. Baking soda is very helpful in tepid bath

water for itching. It also has some uses as an antacid but there are by far

safer antacids available. It is not indicated for use in children under 5.

Actually with careful long term administration you could effect a persons

acid base balance enough to kill them. As a frustrated mystery writer the

plot possibilities are intriguing. So much less detectable than cyanide or

arsenic. Charcoal is a lifesaver for some drug overdoses but as far as I know

that is the only therapeutic effect. It adheres to many (not all) drugs

blocking their absorption from the GI tract and then is evacuated through

vomiting, NG tube or feces. Since many of the kids with have chronic GI

problems I would be every careful of what I introduced to their GI tract.

Many sports drinks are high in sugar, and contain artificial coloring and

flavoring not things I would recommend for children with or without .

Kathy -NNY

[Guest guest]

Just for everyone who uses Dari-free.

Miss Robens (wwww.missroben.com) has the cheapest product (if you order 25

lbs.). I made research!!! And with this big order you can get some products

free.

Regina

Re: input please

Khris,

Both of my boys (one is a patient of Dr. G) have had a problem with

unexplained rashes... this has gone one for over a year. The dermatologist

put them on all sorts of things, and with Desonide every few days and

something called Protopic (a new immune modifying lotion, believe it or

not), we kept the rashes under control. If we even missed one day of

applying the medications, the rashes came back with a vengeance.

I tried only using fragrance-free detergent, used a special soap on their

faces (called Roc Enydrial... $18 a bottle from France), etc., etc. The

rashes started when we started having whole wheat pancakes every Saturday

and I discovered Tide antibacterial detergent. I think one or both of these

things triggered it. Of course, we have stopped the detergent and the whole

wheat (we all do the diet to some degree now... no more whole wheat!).

Anyway, my point is that once the rashes started, I think that even though I

removed the triggers, my boys' immune responses didn't know to shut off the

response. As my son has been on Dr. G's protocol, his rash has come

back more slowly if we leave the meds off... this tells me we are calming

his immune system down (Nizoral is playing a role in this). My older son

(not a patient of Dr. G) tried going without milk for Christmas break and

guess what... the rash went away. We were amazed. I have another friend

whose childrens' unexplained rashes disappeared when she took them off of

milk. We have quit buying milk at our house... just ordered the BIG case of

Dari-free (potato milk) from Vance's website!

Anyway, when the immune system is overactive, things go awry all over the

body, and in my kids I guess the rashes were an outward sign. The goal for

us is to calm the immune system. The things the dermatologist prescribed

treated the symptoms but not the underlying problem. I have hope that as my

son moves along with Dr. G's plan, he will eventually be rid of the

rash.

One more comment... my son is always hungry, too. This has not

subsided yet, but he used to have extreme thirst and when we removed whole

grains and milk from his diet, the thirst stopped (and as a bonus he stopped

gaining weight... milk and cheese add a lot of calories). I recently read

that thirst can be a sign of yeast problem (don't know if it is true). I

have also read that many people confuse thirst with hunger. Just a thought.

We ended up having my son looked at by a pediatric metabolic specialist

because his weight was creeping up. She found nothing. We will be taking

him to have a genetic work-up done soon just to make sure there is no

underlying genetic problem we don't know about. Dr. Goldberg suggested this

but also said he thinks there's a strong chance it will come back negative.

We have done the kidney and liver work-ups, too, with normal results. I

don't know what the diagnosis code was for those... they were before we

started with Dr. G.

Good luck... it's frustrating to deal with. I wish we had found Dr.

Goldberg when our son was as young as your daughter. You have a lot of time

to help her get back on track! Hang in there!

Caroline

>On 3/19/02 8:24 PM, " khrisday " <khrisday@...> wrote:

> My daughter will be 3 years old in May, she is under close scrutiny

> because of her birth history (severe meconium aspiration requiring a

> heart/lung bypass machine for the first week of her life) but

> continues to stump the doctors. She has been plagued by yeast

> rashes/infections in the diaper area since before she came home from

> the hospital (not surprising since her first course of antibiotics

> was begun at a few days old), and has eczema/sensitive skin/rashes,

> sensory issues, language issues, and obsessive tendancies. She does

> not fit into any classification, but we do believe she suffers from

> post traumatic stress from her life-saving medical procedures. Today

> we were at the doctors yet again with unexplained rashes- she has an

> itchy, bumpy rash on her bottom and around her mouth for several

> weeks. (this is not diaper rash as she has not been in diapers for

> over a year) The doctor does not know what to do for her, but he did

> at least agree to start her on a course of oral diflucan for the

> chronic yeast problem. Of greater concern to me is the fact that she

> is constantly hungry, and even though we limit her diet she continues

> to gain weight. The doctor has agrees to do some bloodwork for kidney

> and liver function but I want to see if I can add some tests in. What

> tests would benefit her and what diagnosis should they be done under?

> TIA

> Khris

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Caroline said what I was going to say, with the exception of

explaining about the sensory issues. Both my daughters were born with

the umbilical cord wrapped twice around their necks, and had meconium

staining. They were suctioned, and no more was said. What I have

read since is that their sensory issues are caused by lack of oxygen

at birth. Most Aspies have SI issues, and I think all autistic kids.

Which means, if you haven't started already, you need to find an

occupational therapist who can treat sensory issues (most just treat

gross and fine motor issues). It's easier to treat (and takes less

time) when they are young.

I think she has yeast, too. Diflucan worked on me when Nizoral

didn't. (Do you know about giving baking soda or charcoal to calm

behavior and yeast cravings when on anti-yeast meds?) The hunger may

be an attempt to " feed the yeast " , or it could be, as Carolyn

mentioned, really thirst, in which case you might try the electrolyte

solutions for a week (Pedialyte, Gatoraide, or the best one,

Gookinaid, sold to marathon runners by internet) to see if her cells

need rehydrating. You'd know if she needed it if the hunger/thirst

returned upon removal. Just a thought.

[Guest guest]

> Which means, if you haven't started already, you need to find an

> occupational therapist who can treat sensory issues (most just

treat

> gross and fine motor issues

My son has AS, so we have been dealing with sensory issues for years.

My daughter has had sensory-based OT, but no longer qualifies for it.

Which is actually ok, we do her OT at home ourselves along with our

son's. I think that part of her " hunger " issue is simply a sensory

issue, a need for the deep pressure of chewing. She does chew lots of

sugar free gum. She doesn't drink dairy milk at all, both the kids

have intolerance to it and neither is very fond of milk other than

mama milk. (both are now weaned) She does sometimes have rice milk

but it certainly isn't the cause of her weight gain.

Khris

[Guest guest]

Leaky gut is not a diagnosis in and of itself. It is a symptom of an

underlying disorder. Actually the term is increased permeability of the gut.

I am not at all sure if that is the mechanism that is going on with CFIDS. It

may be that what we are seeing with CFIDS is adult celiac disease which is a

malabsorption issue. The mucosal villi of the gut atrophies which limits the

absorptive abilities. Thus the gut is not leaking it is doing the converse

which is not absorbing. You also could be having with CFIDS an

Immunoglobulinopathy, or an inflammatory bowel issue all of which would give

similar symptoms. All of these issues need further research before one can

say with any clarity what is really going on here. I think the web is a

wonderful way of disseminating information but my job on the LISTSERV is

to make sure that the information that is passed on here is medically

accurate. I'm not sure that every LISTSERV does provide a person to do that.

Kathy -NNY

[Guest guest]

Cheryl is totally correct. Unfortunately another permanent change is the

scalloping that shows up in neurospects. That represents destroyed brain

tissue and appears to be age related. It does not seem to be present in

children who have been on the protocol. Of course to say this with

complete assurance it must be researched more! Kathy -NNY

[Guest guest]

Interesting. My kids were dx'd with static encephalopathy

(means unchanging brain damage, I think) before they reached their

current dx's of " quiet ADD " and AS.

> While I will not dispute that lack of oxygen at birth could possibly

in some

> rare case result in sensory issues I would highly doubt it. Lack of

oxygen at

> birth can result in nothing as infants are much tougher than we

think and can

> handle insults that would decimate us, or something. If it is

something then

> it will be a static not dynamic issue. Sensory issues wax and wane

which

> means they are governed by a dynamic system such as the immune

system not the

> absence of viable brain tissue which would be the result of oxygen

> deprivation. Brain tissue destruction results in loss of function.

Kathy

> -NNY

[Guest guest]

If this is the case, someone should inform the enzymes and autism

listserve. They are poisoning their children.

The sports drink that I recommended as the best is one that is used in

a CFIDS protocol. CFIDS sufferers have leaky gut, and also do not do

well with sugars and artificial flavors/colors.

> Both baking soda and charcoal if not used judiciously in both adults

and

> children can cause great problems. Baking soda is very helpful in

tepid bath

> water for itching. It also has some uses as an antacid but there are

by far

> safer antacids available. It is not indicated for use in children

under 5.

> Actually with careful long term administration you could effect a

persons

> acid base balance enough to kill them. As a frustrated mystery

writer the

> plot possibilities are intriguing. So much less detectable than

cyanide or

> arsenic. Charcoal is a lifesaver for some drug overdoses but as far

as I know

> that is the only therapeutic effect. It adheres to many (not all)

drugs

> blocking their absorption from the GI tract and then is evacuated

through

> vomiting, NG tube or feces. Since many of the kids with have

chronic GI

> problems I would be every careful of what I introduced to their GI

tract.

> Many sports drinks are high in sugar, and contain artificial

coloring and

> flavoring not things I would recommend for children with or without

.

> Kathy -NNY

[Guest guest]

Children who are encephalic (no or minimal brain) or have minimal brains for

other reasons (hydrocephalus, cysts, tumors) in my experience seemed just as

healthy as children with brains. I would have to conclude that their immune

systems were functioning normally. If you accept the premise that is the

result of a dysfunctional immune system then lack of oxygen should not be a

factor. Oxygen deprivation is a term that can be used to describe everything

from a child who is not breathing at all to a child who doesn't pink up quite

as quickly as a busy person would like. The use of oxygen at low levels in

nurseries is fairly common and doesn't necessarily indicate a problem.

Sometimes the decision to use state of the art medicine is as much dictated

by the fact that it is there to use as it is medically indicated. When I was

in charge of a developmental team for two years I made rounds in the NICU

three times a week. Everything is relative isn't it? Kathy -NNY

[Guest guest]

My son was on oxygen for an hour or two after birth. Labor and delivery was

so fast that they said his lungs didn't have time to clear.

It's possible that this was his trigger for . His main symptoms were

consistant with his " Aspergers " diagnosis. OT can help them deal with the

symptoms, but thankfully my son never needed OT.

The senses are off because the part of the brain responsible for sensory

functions is not working right. When their brain begins to function like

they should, the sensory problems should begin to clear.

The only time my son has had sensory problems in the last two years has been

during some temporary OCD relapses. When he was little (ASD only, no OCD)

and not receiving medical treatment, he had a whole list of sensory

problems.

Cheryl

>From: " sw20895 " <sw20895@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: input please

>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:15:47 -0000

>

>Caroline said what I was going to say, with the exception of

>explaining about the sensory issues. Both my daughters were born with

>the umbilical cord wrapped twice around their necks, and had meconium

>staining. They were suctioned, and no more was said. What I have

>read since is that their sensory issues are caused by lack of oxygen

>at birth. Most Aspies have SI issues, and I think all autistic kids.

> Which means, if you haven't started already, you need to find an

>occupational therapist who can treat sensory issues (most just treat

>gross and fine motor issues). It's easier to treat (and takes less

>time) when they are young.

>

>I think she has yeast, too. Diflucan worked on me when Nizoral

>didn't. (Do you know about giving baking soda or charcoal to calm

>behavior and yeast cravings when on anti-yeast meds?) The hunger may

>be an attempt to " feed the yeast " , or it could be, as Carolyn

>mentioned, really thirst, in which case you might try the electrolyte

>solutions for a week (Pedialyte, Gatoraide, or the best one,

>Gookinaid, sold to marathon runners by internet) to see if her cells

>need rehydrating. You'd know if she needed it if the hunger/thirst

>returned upon removal. Just a thought.

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Yes, our children show reduced bloodflow/brain function, but for the

majority it is not static, unchangeable brain damage. As Dr. G. discusses,

most of our children do not have permanent damage that would show up on an

MRI or CAT. If theres no permanent damage then it is functional. If the

immune system is shutting down the brain then we can restore their brain

function through the immune system. Without treatment children can also get

worse. One example is children on the spectrum who end up developing

seizure disorders.

Cheryl

>From: " sw20895 " <sw20895@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: input please

>Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:57:06 -0000

>

>Interesting. My kids were dx'd with static encephalopathy

>(means unchanging brain damage, I think) before they reached their

>current dx's of " quiet ADD " and AS.

>

_________________________________________________________________

Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

[Guest guest]

I guess I'll chime in on this issue of lack of oxygen. We have 4 daughters.

Our oldest has Asperger's and our youngest is autistic. All of them had oxygen

issues. The first was presenting transverse so she was delivered by c-sec. I

had severe toxemia by this time. I think she was already sick before she was

born. I think this is why she was transverse. The doctors had been monitoring

her closely for the whole last trimester. Technically all babies born c-sec

have oxygen issues due to not passing through the birth canal. But, all

indications were that she breathed well. There was meconium with both our 2nd &

3rd babies. The 2nd had probably been that way for at least 5 days according to

the dr's estimation. They have been fine. Our 4th had no meconium but there

was a complete knot in her umbilical cord. This was a potentially disastrous

situation except there were no indications that it had been pulled tight enough

to limit flow. When I asked the ped about it he indicated that brain damage

would be clear and unchanging. When we discovered she was autistic I asked him

again and his response was the same. When we brought this up with Dr. Goldberg

he looked at it the same way. So, I draw from this that brain damage caused by

lack of oxygen must have certain components that we're not seeing with autism.

I know that meconium can cause retardation but that's in the rare situations

where suctioning isn't prompt enough or thorough enough.

>From: " sw20895 " <sw20895@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: input please

>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:15:47 -0000

>

>Caroline said what I was going to say, with the exception of

>explaining about the sensory issues. Both my daughters were born with

>the umbilical cord wrapped twice around their necks, and had meconium

>staining. They were suctioned, and no more was said. What I have

>read since is that their sensory issues are caused by lack of oxygen

>at birth. Most Aspies have SI issues, and I think all autistic kids.

> Which means, if you haven't started already, you need to find an

>occupational therapist who can treat sensory issues (most just treat

>gross and fine motor issues). It's easier to treat (and takes less

>time) when they are young.

>

>I think she has yeast, too. Diflucan worked on me when Nizoral

>didn't. (Do you know about giving baking soda or charcoal to calm

>behavior and yeast cravings when on anti-yeast meds?) The hunger may

>be an attempt to " feed the yeast " , or it could be, as Carolyn

>mentioned, really thirst, in which case you might try the electrolyte

>solutions for a week (Pedialyte, Gatoraide, or the best one,

>Gookinaid, sold to marathon runners by internet) to see if her cells

>need rehydrating. You'd know if she needed it if the hunger/thirst

>returned upon removal. Just a thought.

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Dear Cheryl,

I am very new to this group. I don't know what happened I just started

receiving e-mails one day. It is quite possible that a friend put my e-mail

address on some sort of list as I have and autistic child.

I have been reading the messages as they have appeared and have not replied

to any until now. You mention in the message below that " without treatment

children can get worse... end up developing seizure disorders.

My son, is 7. He was diagnosed at age 3. Since we have been doing

ABA, and a mega dose of vitamins. He has had 4 seizures in the past two

years. I also read about Dr. Goldberg and realize he is treating many of

the children whose parents are part of this group. What is the treatment

(in laymen's terms please) that you speak of. I am afraid that the

seizuring may be getting worse.

Thanks for any help you can give me.

Thankfully,

Re: input please

> >Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:57:06 -0000

> >

> >Interesting. My kids were dx'd with static encephalopathy

> >(means unchanging brain damage, I think) before they reached their

> >current dx's of " quiet ADD " and AS.

> >

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

>

>

>

>

> Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

> the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

> opinion of the Research Institute.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It's a great theory but it would be hard to support it with what we know

about the body at this point. Kathy -NNY

[Guest guest]

Khris,

You last statement was key. I think prematurity is an issue. We know that

there is a higher percentage of preemies who end up with LD and ADHD and the

assumption was always the reason for it was the prematurity itself. OK lets

take a step back a bit farther and say what caused the prematurity in the

first place. Was the mother (who perhaps has an overactive immune system)

building maternal antibodies against the fetus which resulted in a premature

birth? The fetus is a foreign body (remember half the genetic material is

from a different gene pool). We know that maternal antibodies are formed

against some fetuses which result in asymmetries and usually it is a male

infant involved (male fetus being more foreign to the female mother) but it

can also happen to females. Is that the reason that so many more boys have

ASD than girls? Just another thing I would love to study! Kathy -NNY

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

But can you compare an adult system to that of a neonate? I don't think so.

We know that an infant can suffer insults that would kill an adult and be

fine. Is that because some of their systems at birth are so immature that

they are not as easily damaged? I really think that we have to look at the

maternal antibody issue. Now having said that please don't anyone ever think

that using the term maternal connotes any kind of control. What I would like

to see is a study on the percentage of ASD who have 1 or both parents with

immune dysfunction based upon family history and blood work. History not

being the best indicator. I am speaking for all the exercised induced

asthmatics who think that everyone is supposed to cough after completing a

run. Kathy -NNY

[Guest guest]

I know that meconium can cause retardation but that's

in the rare situations where suctioning isn't prompt enough or

thorough enough.

I just want to chime in here about meconium- oxygen deprivation due

to meconium aspiration can cause not only retardation, but death.

HOWEVER it is not necessarily due to suctioning not being prompt or

thorough. My daughter was born with very severe meconium aspiration

which the doctors believe occurred a week or more before delivery.

(her lungs were already full and her fingernails were stained yellow)

She was suctioned very fully and very promptly, however she required

not only a ventilator but a heart/lung bypass machine for the first

week of life. The doctors who do follow-up appojntments have told me

that they do not see an increase in Autism in their babies who had

breathing trouble, however they do see an increase of Autism in the

babies who were born with severe prematurity. Just wanted to share

that.

Khris

[Guest guest]

I think it'll be awhile before all the potential triggers are figured out.

If a person is susceptable to these disorders any type of stressor that

activates the immune system could be that trigger. If the body (for whatever

reason) can't level things back out then you could end up with parts of the

immune system continually activated, continually shutting down the brain.

What is interesting is there is quite a bit of research on immune activation

after ischaemia/reperfusion. The one below is on strokes. It may be that

their bodies were able to protect the brain from actual damage, but remains

in this activated/dysfunctional state.

Cheryl

Expert Opin Biol Ther 2001 Mar;1(2):227-37 Related Articles, Books

Potential of anticytokine therapies in central nervous system ischaemia.

WM, Lutsep HL.

Oregon Stroke Center, Dept. of Neurology UHS44, Oregon Health Sciences

University, 3181 SW Sam Park Road, Portland, Oregon 97201, USA.

clarkw@...

Central nervous system (CNS) ischaemia is associated with an acute

inflammatory response which appears to potentiate CNS injury, especially

following reperfusion. This response includes the release of inflammatory

mediators called cytokines including IL-1 and TNF-alpha, which triggers the

production of additional cytokines including IL-6 and activates leukocytes

which infiltrate into the CNS. Increased expression of cytokines has been

demonstrated to occur in the first few hours after CNS ischaemia.

Preliminary clinical studies suggest that plasma levels of IL-6 are

correlated with functional recovery while brain levels of cytokines have

been demonstrated to increase following experimental ischaemia. Although

there are no current clinical 'anti-cytokine' treatment studies for stroke,

experimental studies modulating IL-1 and TNF-alpha have shown

neuroprotection.

Publication Types:

Review

Review, Tutorial

PMID: 11727532 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

>From: " " <ladams8@...>

>Reply-

>< >

>Subject: input please

>Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:01:33 -0500

>

>Similar situation here, our son's Neurological dx is brain injury; from

>stroke either before birth, during birth, or after birth. No one knows

>for sure when it occurred or why, at age 3 he was diagnosed w/ASD, we

>were told by his Physician to go watch the movie Rainman and it would

>inform us of what to expect. Age 8 a few more dx's were added among them

>a cluster of liquid cysts in left frontal lobe, and mental retardation.

>All his symptoms are classic autism symptoms. Our son was born at a

>birthing center w/ a midwife, we had a long, hard birth, mother was

>asked to stand and lean over the bed to attempt to deliver standing up,

>w/ no success, triceps were used. All birth reports were normal, from

>infancy w/ chronic colic, gut, immune and bowel problems.has sensory

>integration dysfunction severely & CAPD.

>

>I've always thought what if autism is caused from a lack of oxygen that

>lasted only long enough to cause lack of function, and/ or dysfunction,

>but not quite long enough to cause a complete actual brain injury that

>could be seen in an MRI. Is it possible that this lack of

>function/dysfunction could cause the immune problems or the immune

>problems could cause the lack of oxygen? The stroke (lack of oxygen)

>would appear to us to have caused his lack of function/dysfunction, his

>classic autism symptoms, his sensory dysfunction..

>

>

>

>Peacefully,

>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Kris said:

I just want to chime in here about meconium- oxygen deprivation due

to meconium aspiration can cause not only retardation, but death.

HOWEVER it is not necessarily due to suctioning not being prompt or

thorough.

I suppose what I meant by prompt enough or thorough enough means exactly what

you described, when it just can't be prevented from inhibiting oxygen getting to

the brain and possibly causing death. My 2nd daughter was fortunate that she

didn't take a breath and pull all that further into her lungs before suction.

She had been dealing with the meconium for at least 5 days prior to delivery and

was very stained by the meconium as you described in your daughter. It sure is

a scary situation. Sounds like you went through the ringer!

I always wonder if the trauma associated with medical devices could have an

impact on autism. For instance, the ventilator & heart/lung bypass you

described and the nebulizer treatments we used for my daughter's asthma. It's

probably stupid, but I remember it was so difficult and physically demanding. I

wonder if things like that are why they see it more in premature infants due to

the length of time many of them need assistance in breathing.

[Guest guest]

Well, we have children with neuroimmune problems. One of the first things

we do is labwork to get an indication of what is going on with their immune

system, whether there is anything that raises the suspicion of some type of

viral or other infection, etc. These are the recommended labs.

http://www.nids.net/labtests.htm

Treatment involves addressing the things that are helping to keep the immune

system activated. What doctor Goldberg refers to as removing the negatives

to help cool down the immune system. We remove the main offenders from

their diet, and then begin addressing the problems one by one. Everything

is done one step at a time in order to see what the response is.

I hope I'm remembering correctly, but it seems like seizures increased Dr.

G's suspicion of some type of viral problem. My son has never had seizures

but he is one of the many who had some type of low level chronic viral

activation. (actually both of my boys) The antiviral is definely part of

what has helped. I will tell you that Dr. G. is not a big fan of vitamin

mega dosing. The body does things to try to protect itself from damage.

Trying to override that with supplements may not be such a good idea. Also

because our children are so sensitive to things, many have problems even

tolerating supplements. If not tolerated they can actually be adding to the

problem by being one more immune stressor. We use a basic multi now, but

waited until things were under control so we would know if it was o.k.

If you haven't looked at the websites, there is alot of info about what we

are doing.

www.nids.net

www.neuroimmunedr.com

>From: " " <allen@...>

>Reply-

>< >

>Subject: Re: Re: input please

>Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:35:12 -0400

>

>Dear Cheryl,

>

>I am very new to this group. I don't know what happened I just started

>receiving e-mails one day. It is quite possible that a friend put my

>e-mail

>address on some sort of list as I have and autistic child.

>I have been reading the messages as they have appeared and have not replied

>to any until now. You mention in the message below that " without treatment

>children can get worse... end up developing seizure disorders.

>My son, is 7. He was diagnosed at age 3. Since we have been doing

>ABA, and a mega dose of vitamins. He has had 4 seizures in the past two

>years. I also read about Dr. Goldberg and realize he is treating many of

>the children whose parents are part of this group. What is the treatment

>(in laymen's terms please) that you speak of. I am afraid that the

>seizuring may be getting worse.

>

>Thanks for any help you can give me.

>

>Thankfully,

>

>

>

>

> Re: input please

> > >Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:57:06 -0000

> > >

> > >Interesting. My kids were dx'd with static encephalopathy

> > >(means unchanging brain damage, I think) before they reached their

> > >current dx's of " quiet ADD " and AS.

> > >

> >

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

> > the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

> > opinion of the Research Institute.

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

> I always wonder if the trauma associated with medical devices could

have an impact on autism

I don't think it's stupid at all, Post Traumatic Stress causes many

of the things that are commonly seen in ASD's, and children who spend

time in the hospital are exposed to more stresses, and illnesses at a

time when their bodies are less likely to be able to handle it. I

think the reason the Autism rate is higher in preemies may be the

fact that the immune system and brain are not fully developed, but

the stress of medical procedures surely doesn't help.

Khris

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

I thought all night about the ischemia leading to the immune response

leading to an exacerbation of the problem and while I don't see the

relationship between oxygen deprivation due to a mechanical cause I do see a

possible correlation with the subdural hematomas that occur around 26-27

weeks in the neonate. The other thing that comes to mind is the individual

with a spinal cord injury. Would the use of immune modulators right after the

injury, or within a prescribed amount of time mitigate some of the damage

that results? I think a lot of research has to be done. Kathy

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathy,

This is the first time I have ever seen exercised induced asthma

mentioned anywhere as being associated w/ our son's condition. Our son

has always had severe exercise induced asthma. Is the induced asthma

immune related? I took him to be tested for allergies; they said there

was no connection between the induced asthma & being slightly allergic

to grass, dust & mold. They also said he didn't have food allergies but

his stomach & bowel are intolerant of wheat & milk?

Neither parent has exercise induced asthma, but is this a familiar

symptom being discovered w/?

The biological father has bowel reactions to certain foods like popcorn.

Could that be related to possible immune dysfunction in the father?

Biological mother had fibroid tumors before & during pregnancy, and a

lack of circulation in legs during pregnancy, is either of those immune

related? I read something recently that associated fibroid tumors

w/immune dysfunction that's why I felt the need to mention it. I'd also

like to see a study on 1 or both parent's w/immune dysfunction. Most

parents may likely not even realize they are experiencing immune

dysfunction.

Peacefully,

Re: input please

Cheryl,

But can you compare an adult system to that of a neonate? I don't

think so.

We know that an infant can suffer insults that would kill an adult and

be

fine. Is that because some of their systems at birth are so immature

that

they are not as easily damaged? I really think that we have to look at

the

maternal antibody issue. Now having said that please don't anyone ever

think

that using the term maternal connotes any kind of control. What I would

like

to see is a study on the percentage of ASD who have 1 or both parents

with

immune dysfunction based upon family history and blood work. History not

being the best indicator. I am speaking for all the exercised induced

asthmatics who think that everyone is supposed to cough after completing

a

run. Kathy -NNY

Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

opinion of the Research Institute.