Guest guest Posted July 28, 2002 Report Share Posted July 28, 2002 Hello List. Although as I understand it, there is no " immune modulating drug " available yet, I recently read about natural plant oils that contained sterols and sterolins. These agents have been shown to have a normalising effect on immune Th1 and Th2 levels. Is there anyone on this list who has tried these agents e.g. Moducare. ( www.moducare.com )Or does anyone close to Dr Goldberg know what his views are? Looking forward to any replies. Miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2002 Report Share Posted July 28, 2002 are these over the counter, herbal or prescription only? where did you read about them? barb --- david miles <david@...> wrote: > Hello List. > Although as I understand it, there is no " immune > modulating drug " available > yet, I recently read about natural plant oils that > contained sterols and > sterolins. These agents have been shown to have a > normalising effect on > immune Th1 and Th2 levels. Is there anyone on this > list who has tried these > agents e.g. Moducare. ( www.moducare.com )Or does > anyone close to Dr > Goldberg know what his views are? > Looking forward to any replies. > Miles. > > > ===== Barb Katsaros barbkatsaros@... __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 , that's presupposing that the immune system isn't already working overtime. We have all kinds of evidence of overactive immune systems. All of these so called " AutoImmune diseases " claim that the immune system is overactivated and is supposedly " attacking " the body, resulting in the AI disease dx. Inflammation is an immune system response with destructive results, even leading to cancer as has shown in his angiotensin II/ARB research. I'm not suggesting that we don't need to help our immune systems do the job, but the question is how do we best do that? penny <Jaep@L...> wrote: ...The main > theme of posts here are direct abx treatment , but it's clear to me that > AB'x's will only ever be partially effective ..at some point the IS will > need to kick in to finish the job ..Can the IS kick in or is it too > stressed? Is the anergy we display too profound ...I believe that Immune > modulators are an essential part of treatment ... any comments ... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Hi , I'm not following you exactly. I always responded to the ARB. Believe me I wouldn't have stuck with Benicar for over a year if I weren't seeing a very big positive response. I still feel very strongly that it changed my life as far as most of my symptoms. But only the antibiotics have helped with the fatigue. And now, perhaps the anti-fungal is also helping with the fatigue although I can't say for sure since I haven't done it as a stand alone therapy as I have with abx. I do think the Diflucan is helping, but then again, I was off the Dif. for almost a month without any reduction of energy so I'm still not certain how much it has impacted my improvement. It's more like a gut feeling. (Believe me, I take so many pills that I don't take anything anymore unless I really think it's either helping or has a very good chance of helping me.) Back to the Immune System. Can we really say that the IS is responding incorrectly? Isn't it also possible that it's doing the best it's capable of doing, under the circumstances? Hey, we're not dead yet, right? I wonder why the medical establishment tends to blame our bodies rather than the pathogens? Maybe because from the day we're born, we begin to die, so there's an inherent kind of hopelessness? The problem is, I think, that there's a lot of residual damage when the body puts up a fight. I mean super high fevers are an appropriate Immune System response that can give people brain damage. Inflammation leads to heart disease, cancer, etc. These are unfortunate side effects of the immune system responding to any kind of threat, not just wounds. It's the way we're made to respond. Perhaps the threats to the I.S. are just getting worse? And maybe we've helped the threat by creating an environment for bugs to thrive? i.e. diet, misuse of antibiotics, etc. And sure, perhaps some genetic predispostion is at work as well. That's why I think we have to look at helping our immune system but that doesn't necessarily mean boosting it, which is what most people think when they hear " immune modulation " . I get frustrated because I keep forgetting that the majority of people still don't even contemplate, let alone understand the role bacteria is probably playing in most of these " unexplained " illnesses. On the CFS forums, mycoplasma gets mentioned once in a while. Lyme gets mentioned occasionally, I rarely hear anything about c. pneumonia, and if you mention staph you're pretty much laughed off the forum. So in general, infection is pretty much ignored. Really frustrating, because I've got so much evidence that it's just the opposite. I firmly believe that you will find chronic infections of all types underlying almost every one of these diseases of unknown origin, and yet people are still talking about protein drinks and boosting their immune systems (against what, they don't know). :-( At least there are researchers who are gaining prominence who do see the connection between the immune response and the bugs. Hopefully, that awareness will shift to the CFS and AI communities soon. penny > ...The main > > theme of posts here are direct abx treatment , but it's clear to > me that > > AB'x's will only ever be partially effective ..at some point the > IS will > > need to kick in to finish the job ..Can the IS kick in or is it too > > stressed? Is the anergy we display too profound ...I believe that > Immune > > modulators are an essential part of treatment ... any > comments ... > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 In a hundred years of medicine they have given us 100 plus ilness states that need more than the immune system. On a daily basis people are delivered to hospitals all over the world because there immune system wasn't up to the challenge.Our immune system isn't taking care of the pathogens we are trying to remove with drugs, as you can observe the biggest problem lies in the late delivery and too short a duration of treatment. > ...The main > > theme of posts here are direct abx treatment , but it's clear to > me that > > AB'x's will only ever be partially effective ..at some point the > IS will > > need to kick in to finish the job ..Can the IS kick in or is it too > > stressed? Is the anergy we display too profound ...I believe that > Immune > > modulators are an essential part of treatment ... any > comments ... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 I think yogurt's a good idea, maybe better than probiotics (which I've used on and off for years). I'm amazed at how good my gut is, considering how many abx I've taken over the last 2 years. Seems like it would be trashed, but fortunately my GI tract works pretty well. Some people tell me that if it WEREN'T for being on the right abx, I'd probably have a seriously messed up gut, which could be true. I used to have IBS, pre-abx, and that's no longer a problem. You probably read the recent studies that showed Yogurt (even processed, yoplait type yogurts) have more live organisms than the pro-biotics. (But we're not sure they were comparing the same organisms.) Anyway, I think yogurt makes sense, because it's natural. They do seem to help some people quite a bit, but I, personally, have not experienced so much benefit from pro-biotics that I feel compelled to take them regularly. What's worse though, is there are studies showing that antibiotics can actually create resistance in the probiotic organisms, causing them to gene swap with the bad gut bacteria, increasing the bad colonies (essentially turning them into enemies rather than friends). I can see some possible truth in this, as most people I know seem to develop resistance to various probiotics. They work for a while, then stop, and they have to try a new one. Not a good sign. penny > > > > ...The main > > > > > theme of posts here are direct abx treatment , but it's > > clear > > > to > > > > me that > > > > > AB'x's will only ever be partially effective ..at some > > point > > > the > > > > IS will > > > > > need to kick in to finish the job ..Can the IS kick in > or > > is > > > it too > > > > > stressed? Is the anergy we display too profound ...I > > believe > > > that > > > > Immune > > > > > modulators are an essential part of treatment ... any > > > > comments ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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