Health Care

[Guest guest]

On 3 Aug 1999 drp@... wrote:

> 2. What do you think of the limb lengthening procedure. Is is ethical, or

> should it be done away with.

Be sure you see the discussion of limb-lengthening surgery in the

" Frequently Asked Questions. " It includes the official position of the LPA

Medical Advisory Board.

http://www.lpaonline.org/resources_faq.html

Also, be sure to see Gillian Mueller's article on her own limb-lengthening

in the LPA Online Library:

http://www.lpaonline.org/resources_library.html

Dan Kennedy

Internet services coordinator

Little People of America, Inc.

http://www.lpaonline.org

[Guest guest]

On 3 Aug 1999 drp@... wrote:

> From: drp@...

>

> My name is . I am currently enrolled as a Nursing Student

> at the University of Texas. I am taking a class in Genetics, and I have

> to do a presentation on Achondroplasia. I was hoping to get some information

> from people who have the disorder. Here are my couple of questions.

, keep in mind that this mailing list has been been bombarded

with many phonies asking similiar questions before, so prepare yourself

to be flamed.

> 1. If you were standing in front of a health care team what would you tell

> them to do if they were treating a person with achondroplasia? Please feel

> free to answer this question with no holds barred.

That depends on what condition the team was treating the person for!

You don't treat a person for achondroplasia. It's not a disease,

or at least isn't one that's curable.

> 2. What do you think of the limb lengthening procedure. Is is ethical, or

> should it be done away with.

It should not be done away with, as there are people out there

who want it. However, from everything I've heard, it's painful,

expensive, and the benefits aren't that great. Let the buyer beware.

Craig

---

Craig | Austin, TX

dcm@...

[Guest guest]

to the second question.. I would have to agree for it to be done away with.

I am 4 foot 2 ...a pituitary dwarf and didn't take any hormones or have my

bones stretched. My self-esteem is so strong that I have my parents to

thank for my strength of dealing with any ones remarks, pointed fingers or

questions. I love life and even if I had black hair, brown eyes, a mole on

my face, there would be something someone wouldn't like about me. Society

finds ways to pick on things they either wouldn't want to cope with or are

jealous because they do not have it themselves. Love, life and being short

is great. Diane )

----------

> From: Craig <dcm@...>

> dwarfismonelist

> Cc: drp@...

> Subject: Re: health care

> Date: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 8:08 AM

>

> From: Craig <dcm@...>

>

> On 3 Aug 1999 drp@... wrote:

> > From: drp@...

> >

> > My name is . I am currently enrolled as a Nursing Student

> > at the University of Texas. I am taking a class in Genetics, and I have

> > to do a presentation on Achondroplasia. I was hoping to get some

information

> > from people who have the disorder. Here are my couple of questions.

>

> , keep in mind that this mailing list has been been bombarded

> with many phonies asking similiar questions before, so prepare yourself

> to be flamed.

>

> > 1. If you were standing in front of a health care team what would you

tell

> > them to do if they were treating a person with achondroplasia? Please

feel

> > free to answer this question with no holds barred.

>

> That depends on what condition the team was treating the person for!

> You don't treat a person for achondroplasia. It's not a disease,

> or at least isn't one that's curable.

>

> > 2. What do you think of the limb lengthening procedure. Is is

ethical, or

> > should it be done away with.

>

> It should not be done away with, as there are people out there

> who want it. However, from everything I've heard, it's painful,

> expensive, and the benefits aren't that great. Let the buyer beware.

>

> Craig

>

> ---

> Craig | Austin, TX

> dcm@...

>

>

> ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

well said diane i two have my parents to thank for helping me to that same

place.

beth san antonio

----------

> From: Diane,... <Calgirl@...>

> dwarfismonelist

> Subject: Re: health care

> Date: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 1:45 PM

>

> From: " Diane,... " <Calgirl@...>

>

> to the second question.. I would have to agree for it to be done away

with.

> I am 4 foot 2 ...a pituitary dwarf and didn't take any hormones or have

my

> bones stretched. My self-esteem is so strong that I have my parents to

> thank for my strength of dealing with any ones remarks, pointed fingers

or

> questions. I love life and even if I had black hair, brown eyes, a mole

on

> my face, there would be something someone wouldn't like about me. Society

> finds ways to pick on things they either wouldn't want to cope with or

are

> jealous because they do not have it themselves. Love, life and being

short

> is great. Diane )

>

> ----------

> > From: Craig <dcm@...>

> > dwarfismonelist

> > Cc: drp@...

> > Subject: Re: health care

> > Date: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 8:08 AM

> >

> > From: Craig <dcm@...>

> >

> > On 3 Aug 1999 drp@... wrote:

> > > From: drp@...

> > >

> > > My name is . I am currently enrolled as a Nursing Student

> > > at the University of Texas. I am taking a class in Genetics, and I

have

>

> > > to do a presentation on Achondroplasia. I was hoping to get some

> information

> > > from people who have the disorder. Here are my couple of questions.

> >

> > , keep in mind that this mailing list has been been bombarded

> > with many phonies asking similiar questions before, so prepare

yourself

> > to be flamed.

> >

> > > 1. If you were standing in front of a health care team what would

you

> tell

> > > them to do if they were treating a person with achondroplasia?

Please

> feel

> > > free to answer this question with no holds barred.

> >

> > That depends on what condition the team was treating the person for!

> > You don't treat a person for achondroplasia. It's not a disease,

> > or at least isn't one that's curable.

> >

> > > 2. What do you think of the limb lengthening procedure. Is is

> ethical, or

> > > should it be done away with.

> >

> > It should not be done away with, as there are people out there

> > who want it. However, from everything I've heard, it's painful,

> > expensive, and the benefits aren't that great. Let the buyer beware.

> >

> > Craig

> >

> > ---

> > Craig | Austin, TX

> > dcm@...

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

>

I am . I am doing a presentation on Achondroplasia

> in my Genetics class. I wanted to ask some questions and see what

different

> people had to say.

>

> 1) If I was your health care provider, what would you expect me to do or

not do. Things like- Would you expect me to provide

> a stool, or would that be offensive?

i would expect you to medical treatment/supplies that are appropriate. i

would expect you to use the appropriate language to facilitate paperwork

that has to be done. i would expect you to know something about my specific

type of dwarfism so that you can know what you are doing is the best

possible treatment you can provide. i expect you to know what potential

problems might arise as i age. i expect you to treat me like any other

patient, instead of a once in a lifetime experience to learn about dwarfism.

i dont expect personal questions, that you wouldnt ask ANY OTHER PATIENT!

stools? why do i need a stool? do i have to sit in the corner for being a

bad girl? do you have a little pointed hat to go with that stool? most

medical offices have steps to allow patients to get on a table. what would

be real nice is to have an examining gown that FIT! LOL.

Have you ever had any bad experience with health care. By this I mean

> has a doctor or nurse ever offended you by helping you when you didn't

want help?

not in that particular example. i've had bad medical experiences, but

usually it wasnt in the area of " helping "

>

> 2) I was wondering if people with achondroplasia think of themselves as a

seperate society? By that I mean do you

> hang out and get along better with people who have achondroplasia or are

you with the mainstream of society. I was

> wondering this for my next question?

a separate society? as a child i didnt know any other dwarfs. i always

believed and acted as tho i would <and have had to> survive in mainstream

society, just like anyone else who has a disability.

>

> 3) I read the LPA's statement and what they think about limb lenghening

surgery. I was hoping to get some

> of your own personal point of views. Do you think that it is wrong? Is it

up to the person who wants it?

> If you do consider yourselves as a seperate group what would you do with a

person who decided to have LLS?

> Would they not be part of your group anymore? Would they not be your

friends any longer.

lengthening surgery as a child would have been a very viable option, so that

i would feel like i fit in with other children. as an adult, i'm used to my

own body, and the life i've forged for myself. changing my size at this age

would be like entering another persons life. it would change everything i

do, and how i do it, and would mean abandoning the life i know, and the

person i am.

this is my choice. it may not be the choice of other people. if a friend

decided to have LLS, then that's their choice. i hope it wouldnt affect my

relationship with them any more than any other cosmetic surgery..

prosthetics, nose jobs, etc...

>

>

[Guest guest]

O'Connor wrote:

> If the President had had his way, we would have had health care for the

> country. That's one thing I don't think he can be blamed for :-)

I think he can be blamed, did you look at his/hillary's plan? We would

all be in the same boat the veterans are when they have to use VA

medical services, not my idea of good health care.

> Remember

> Newt and his followers who defeated these plans. Also, Mrs. Clinton was

> savaged for pushing health care reform.

Mrs. Clinton's reform plan was an abomination! She and her plan deserved

to be savaged! I know what we have now is not perfect, but it is better

than a complete nationalized health care program. Ask our Canadian

friends about the problems of their health care system and see if you

really want to trade what we have now for what they've got. (I hope none

of our neighbors to the north take offense at this as none is intended!)

I agree that some reform is dearly needed, but not just ANY reform, one

that makes sense that will provide better care for all. The problem

seems to me that whenever the US government does anything, it doesn't do

it very well. So I do not trust our government to nationalize health

care and do a good job of it. I am not saying I have the solution, but

having to rely on my government for my health care scare the heck out of

me....

But perhaps we should stop the political discussions as I doubt our

little group of 400, many of whom are not even living in the US, will

really be able to come up with a real reform minded solution. If someone

truly has a new and great idea, I urge you to write your congressman and

senator.

just my $0.02....

j.

------------------------------------

ph A. Graff

Director of Digital Prepress

Graphic Communications, Inc.

(301) 599-2020

" The truth will set you free, but

first it will make you miserable "

[Guest guest]

>

>

> O'Connor wrote:

> > If the President had had his way, we would have had health care for

the

> > country. That's one thing I don't think he can be blamed for :-)

>

> I think he can be blamed, did you look at his/hillary's plan? We would

> all be in the same boat the veterans are when they have to use VA

> medical services, not my idea of good health care.

>

> > Remember

> > Newt and his followers who defeated these plans. Also, Mrs. Clinton was

> > savaged for pushing health care reform.

>

Canadians, on another list, do in fact feel sorry for us that we do not

have the same benefits that they have, at the same time recognizing that

their system is not perfect.

I don't see any place that I wrote that I agreed with any specific plan.

If you reread you will see that I wrote about health care reform, which was

blocked. IMO, our health care system is corrupt and obscene which is due

not just to governenet inefficiency but private sector skullduggery.

WIC, Headstart, Medicare, Medicaid; for example, are some programs that

do do some good for people. If all participants had integrity, they could

do even more good.

> Mrs. Clinton's reform plan was an abomination! She and her plan deserved

> to be savaged! I know what we have now is not perfect, but it is better

> than a complete nationalized health care program. Ask our Canadian

> friends about the problems of their health care system and see if you

> really want to trade what we have now for what they've got. (I hope none

> of our neighbors to the north take offense at this as none is intended!)

>

> I agree that some reform is dearly needed, but not just ANY reform, one

> that makes sense that will provide better care for all. The problem

> seems to me that whenever the US government does anything, it doesn't do

> it very well. So I do not trust our government to nationalize health

> care and do a good job of it. I am not saying I have the solution, but

> having to rely on my government for my health care scare the heck out of

> me....

>

>

> But perhaps we should stop the political discussions as I doubt our

> little group of 400, many of whom are not even living in the US, will

> really be able to come up with a real reform minded solution. If someone

> truly has a new and great idea, I urge you to write your congressman and

> senator.

>

>

> just my $0.02....

>

>

> j.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

> ph A. Graff

> Director of Digital Prepress

> Graphic Communications, Inc.

> (301) 599-2020

> " The truth will set you free, but

> first it will make you miserable "

>

[Guest guest]

,

Go to Mexico and then to Canada and then write about health care. Clintons

are nothing more than immoral socialists disguised as capitalists. To see

what would happen if Clintons had their way, go across any border. I don't

watch t.v or listen to political ads; my opinion is based on experience.

My wife and I went to Mexico City this past June, less than one week before

the

election of e Fox. I had a whole list of drugs to buy. Only a

handful of drugs

require a prescription, mostly narcotics and Viagra. The Federalists in

Mexico control drug prices. The result is very limited selection since most

drug companies won't do business in Mexico. It is true that you can buy

drugs cheap, but about the only brand I saw on the shelf was Glaxo-Wellcom.

I came

home with one tube of steroid skin cream. Antibiotics are available for a

low price, but antibiotics by the manufacturer or dosage I needed for the

antibiotic protocol was not available (because of government controls).

As far as Canada, it is much worse. I've been to Canada many times since

1972. Did you know that most Canadians with money cross the border to have

surgery? It is illegal, but they do it, so they can make the choice. Also,

good doctors in Canada are emigrating to the US and other countries to

practice medicine. People wait years for basic surgery and many die in the

process. You should do some research. Canada's health system is in

shambles. I will find you some good reference sources if you cannot find

them.

The US is spoiled rotten when it comes to healthcare. It is true that

medication is expensive, but at least we can get it. And our technology

is fantastic. Much of the wiz-bang technogear that we see in the hospitals

is not available in Canada or Mexico. Why do foreign political leaders come

to the good ol US for surgery?

What I said about Canada and Mexico is also true of Europe. Socialized

medicine has crippled

most of the industrialized worlds health care. An analogy is the fuel

crisis going

on right now in Europe. 73% of the gasoline price is TAX in the UK. People

are fed up with government taking their money. Government intervention in

health care has NO VALUE ADD.

You've been fed a lie. The opposite of what you've been led to believe is

true. Clinton stated that she wanted to provide health care to the

poor and to " the children " . Since people with money are the only ones able

to skirt the laws in countries like Canada and Mexico, the poor people are

left to

suffer. If had her way, everybody would be reduced to the same level

of care; low. Rich people would find help elsewhere, and the poor would

have no choice; just like Mexico and Canada! I pray that the new government

in

Mexico is able to help their poor through less government and a

corresponding reduction

in corruption.

I'd tell you some more, but tomorrow is work and I gotta get to bed!

Take care and God Bless you.

Jeff

Wheat Ridge, Colorado

rheumatic health care

>

> If the President had had his way, we would have had health care for

the

> country. That's one thing I don't think he can be blamed for :-)

Remember

> Newt and his followers who defeated these plans. Also, Mrs. Clinton was

> savaged for pushing health care reform.

> -NC

>

>

> To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Jas, for the information on health care systems. If we can

understand the fundamental problems with the health care systems, then why

can the powers that be?

Ginger-gehud119@...

[Guest guest]

-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor

,

Go to Mexico and then to Canada and then write about health care.

Clintons

are nothing more than immoral socialists disguised as capitalists. To

see

what would happen if Clintons had their way, go across any border. I

don't

watch t.v or listen to political ads; my opinion is based on experience.

My wife and I went to Mexico City this past June, less than one week

before

the

election of e Fox. I had a whole list of drugs to buy. Only a

handful of drugs

require a prescription, mostly narcotics and Viagra. The Federalists in

Mexico control drug prices. The result is very limited selection since

most

drug companies won't do business in Mexico. It is true that you can buy

drugs cheap, but about the only brand I saw on the shelf was

Glaxo-Wellcom.

I came

home with one tube of steroid skin cream. Antibiotics are available for

a

low price, but antibiotics by the manufacturer or dosage I needed for

the

antibiotic protocol was not available (because of government controls).

As far as Canada, it is much worse. I've been to Canada many times

since

1972. Did you know that most Canadians with money cross the border to

have

surgery? It is illegal, but they do it, so they can make the choice.

Also,

good doctors in Canada are emigrating to the US and other countries to

practice medicine. People wait years for basic surgery and many die in

the

process. You should do some research. Canada's health system is in

shambles. I will find you some good reference sources if you cannot

find

them.

The US is spoiled rotten when it comes to healthcare. It is true that

medication is expensive, but at least we can get it. And our technology

is fantastic. Much of the wiz-bang technogear that we see in the

hospitals

is not available in Canada or Mexico. Why do foreign political leaders

come

to the good ol US for surgery?

What I said about Canada and Mexico is also true of Europe. Socialized

medicine has crippled

most of the industrialized worlds health care. An analogy is the fuel

crisis going

on right now in Europe. 73% of the gasoline price is TAX in the UK.

People

are fed up with government taking their money. Government intervention

in

health care has NO VALUE ADD.

You've been fed a lie. The opposite of what you've been led to believe

is

true. Clinton stated that she wanted to provide health care to

the

poor and to " the children " . Since people with money are the only ones

able

to skirt the laws in countries like Canada and Mexico, the poor people

are

left to

suffer. If had her way, everybody would be reduced to the same

level

of care; low. Rich people would find help elsewhere, and the poor would

have no choice; just like Mexico and Canada! I pray that the new

government

in

Mexico is able to help their poor through less government and a

corresponding reduction

in corruption.

I'd tell you some more, but tomorrow is work and I gotta get to bed!

Take care and God Bless you.

Jeff

Wheat Ridge, Colorado

rheumatic health care

>

> If the President had had his way, we would have had health care for

the

> country. That's one thing I don't think he can be blamed for :-)

Remember

> Newt and his followers who defeated these plans. Also, Mrs. Clinton was

> savaged for pushing health care reform.

> -NC

>

>

> To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

>

>

To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/27/04 2:26:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

> The reason for the shortage is this: Preventing a flu epidemic that could

> kill thousands is not nearly as profitable as making pills for something like

> erectile dysfunction, a decidedly non-fatal condition. Viagra, for example,

> brings in more than $1 billion a year for its maker, Pfizer. The profits to be

> made from selling flu vaccine are measly in comparison. If selling flu

> vaccine were as lucrative as marketing Viagra, sports broadcasts and the

nightly

> news would be flooded with commercials warning that " winter is almost here;

> ask your doctor about flu vaccine " - and it would be available to anyone who

> wanted it. Instead, while many of those at risk of the flu go without the

> vaccine, primetime programs are sponsored by the makers of Viagra ( " Get back

to

> mischief " ), Cialis ( " Will you be ready? " ) and Levitra ( " Stay in the game " ).

____

~~~~> I'd rather risk an unwanted 4-hour erection than alzheimers from

mercury/aluminum toxicity.

Chris

[Guest guest]

For the record, I don't take Viagra, nor any other prescription to " elevate "

my penal stature.

But I did see a television ad for a new drug-- I forget the name, but it may

have been Vitalis or something like that-- that suggested, in the side effects

segment, that if you experience an erection for four hours or longer, seek

emergency medical help.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them

make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion,

which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of

the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray

ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for

those

who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/27/04 6:57:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

jturtlesmom@... writes:

> Maybe I missed something... why would anyone take a flu vaccine (that

> doesn't work, or will prevent a natural detox process), or Viagra, etc.?

____

~~~~~> If your question was directed at me, my point wasn't that I *would*

take Viagra (or the flu vaccine), but that the author's credibility was clearly

undermined when he/she/whatever lauded a toxic and useless vaccine, and

diminished the safer and more useful Viagra for it's lack of " life-saving "

potential

to make his/her/whatever's point. Beyond that, the fact that Viagra is more

profitable because more people will buy it and/or pay more money for it didn't

seem to cross the author's mind.

Apparently the author was suggesting that socialist health care can bring us

a new dawn of mercury-poinsoned senility, leaving un-noted the bounty that

would leave those who wish to tax us for a socialist nursing home system to take

care of all the brain-dead elderly that were left to us by " not-for-profit "

medicine.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them

make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion,

which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of

the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray

ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for

those

who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

I found the article more depressing than interesting. I'm just

thankful that I don't plan on depending on drugs to cure my every

ailment as I age (and if we WAPers are right, many of us won't have

huge health problems). I'm a fringe allopathic heathcare user (obgyn

once a year), HOWEVER, if I get run over by a bus and need emergency

care, I don't want my family to go bankrupt because of it (the

situation of one friend who was w/o insurance when she came down with

meningitis). For this reason, I will never risk it and not carry

health insurance. I hate how HMOs are run and it makes me angry that

drug companies are allowed to advertise in the way that they do. The

solution set out by the authors sounds dreamy to me (I don't mind

paying more taxes if it means I get even minimal health

coverage)...but pretty unrealistic given the current climate and the

amount of money the industry rakes in.

[Guest guest]

> ~~~~> I'd rather risk an unwanted 4-hour erection than alzheimers from

> mercury/aluminum toxicity.

ROTFL!!!

It IS a bit silly to agrue for a universal healthcare system that has

it's priorities all screwed up.

[Guest guest]

At 05:19 PM 10/27/04 -0400, you wrote:

>

>> ~~~~> I'd rather risk an unwanted 4-hour erection than alzheimers from

>> mercury/aluminum toxicity.

>

>ROTFL!!!

>

>It IS a bit silly to agrue for a universal healthcare system that has

>it's priorities all screwed up.

Actually, I was a little more concerned about Chris' coworkers.

MFJ

I wanna live! I wanna explore the Universe! And I wanna eat pie!

~Urgo

[Guest guest]

Yeah, Viagra coupled with the Warrior Diet could be pretty scary...

[Guest guest]

Maybe I missed something... why would anyone take a flu vaccine (that

doesn't work, or will prevent a natural detox process), or Viagra, etc.?

L.

>From: ChrisMasterjohn@...

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: Health Care

>Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:50:17 EDT

>

>In a message dated 10/27/04 2:26:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>heidis@... writes:

>

> > The reason for the shortage is this: Preventing a flu epidemic that

>could

> > kill thousands is not nearly as profitable as making pills for something

>like

> > erectile dysfunction, a decidedly non-fatal condition. Viagra, for

>example,

> > brings in more than $1 billion a year for its maker, Pfizer. The profits

>to be

> > made from selling flu vaccine are measly in comparison. If selling flu

> > vaccine were as lucrative as marketing Viagra, sports broadcasts and the

>nightly

> > news would be flooded with commercials warning that " winter is almost

>here;

> > ask your doctor about flu vaccine " - and it would be available to anyone

>who

> > wanted it. Instead, while many of those at risk of the flu go without

>the

> > vaccine, primetime programs are sponsored by the makers of Viagra ( " Get

>back to

> > mischief " ), Cialis ( " Will you be ready? " ) and Levitra ( " Stay in the

>game " ).

>

>____

>

>~~~~> I'd rather risk an unwanted 4-hour erection than alzheimers from

>mercury/aluminum toxicity.

>

>Chris

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

but the optimist in me says

> that someday people will wake up and stop seeing " free market " as the

> answer to every problem.

>

> -- Heidi Jean

Amen! From your mouth...

I've talked to folks in Canada, and basically you get treated for free

(or rather, taxes cover their national health program) but it takes a

loooong time to get certain tests and proceedures done. Rich

Canadians often come to the states to get things done faster. But

hell, at least they don't have to pay $350/month for crappy HMO

insurance that covers only one person! AND if you choose to take

drugs, they're WAAAAYYYYY cheaper.

My father has been urging me to move to Canada for years now.

[Guest guest]

I really AM more healthy than I ever have been, and I tend to think

that in our family, the bulk of the problems are probably food intolerance

related, so I'm hoping I'll skip those problems! It's silly to rely on anyone

else for YOUR health.

But both in my family and extended family and friends there have been a lot of

catastrophic problems that WOULD have bankrupted the family,

and I do know people who have lost their houses as a result. And so,

like you, I wouldn't risk it. But health premiums are sky high! I don't know

how unrealistic it is to hope for something better ... I have friends in

Canada and they aren't having near the issues ... I don't know that the

docs are any better about eating habits etc. but at least the system isn't

so controlled by the pharmacutical companies and if you do get hit

by a bus you won't go bankrupt. I don't know what will happen in this

country, maybe we'll end up moving North, but the optimist in me says

that someday people will wake up and stop seeing " free market " as the

answer to every problem.

-- Heidi Jean

>Heidi,

>

>I found the article more depressing than interesting. I'm just

>thankful that I don't plan on depending on drugs to cure my every

>ailment as I age (and if we WAPers are right, many of us won't have

>huge health problems). I'm a fringe allopathic heathcare user (obgyn

>once a year), HOWEVER, if I get run over by a bus and need emergency

>care, I don't want my family to go bankrupt because of it (the

>situation of one friend who was w/o insurance when she came down with

>meningitis). For this reason, I will never risk it and not carry

>health insurance.

[Guest guest]

Hear, Hear! Well said.

>From: ChrisMasterjohn@...

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: Health Care

>Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:35:59 EDT

>

>In a message dated 10/27/04 6:57:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>jturtlesmom@... writes:

>

> > Maybe I missed something... why would anyone take a flu vaccine (that

> > doesn't work, or will prevent a natural detox process), or Viagra,

>etc.?

>____

>

>~~~~~> If your question was directed at me, my point wasn't that I *would*

>take Viagra (or the flu vaccine), but that the author's credibility was

>clearly

>undermined when he/she/whatever lauded a toxic and useless vaccine, and

>diminished the safer and more useful Viagra for it's lack of " life-saving "

>potential

>to make his/her/whatever's point. Beyond that, the fact that Viagra is

>more

>profitable because more people will buy it and/or pay more money for it

>didn't

>seem to cross the author's mind.

>

>Apparently the author was suggesting that socialist health care can bring

>us

>a new dawn of mercury-poinsoned senility, leaving un-noted the bounty that

>would leave those who wish to tax us for a socialist nursing home system to

>take

>care of all the brain-dead elderly that were left to us by " not-for-profit "

>medicine.

>

>Chris

>

>____

>

> " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

>heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds,

>and

>animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

>them

>make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion,

>which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the

>sight of

>the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray

>ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and

>for those

>who do them wrong. "

>

>--Saint Isaac the Syrian

_________________________________________________________________

Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!

http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

[Guest guest]

Neil, that is so right on. I have friends in both Canada and GB and the waiting

lines are so long and the care is not that great. Those in GB have to fight

tooth and nail to get Armour and often have to do it themselves. The strangle

hold of the pharmaceutical companies is truly scary. I have had HMO's and

dislike them intensely, as do most doctors that have a real care for patients.

They are very limited and most do NOT pay their bills in a timely manner, and I

have experienced THAT first hand. I don't know the answer, but I do know that

universal health care on the order of Canada or GB is NOT the answer. The

Swedish have a pretty good system, but their taxes are sky high, and I would bet

that Armour would STILL he hard to get.

C.

http://catherineshypohelljourney.blogspot.com/

http://www.youngliving.com - essential oils for health

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

cccquilter53@...

Embroidery from the Heart

http://Embfromtheheart.etsy.com

[Guest guest]

to paraphrase from Sicko:

In the US ppl are afraid of their guvmint.

in France the guvmint is afraid of the ppl

LOL

we can have a functional health care system here too, instead of disease

maintenance.

Gracia

Neil, that is so right on. I have friends in both Canada and GB and the

waiting lines are so long and the care is not that great. Those in GB have to

fight tooth and nail to get Armour and often have to do it themselves. The

strangle hold of the pharmaceutical companies is truly scary. I have had HMO's

and dislike them intensely, as do most doctors that have a real care for

patients. They are very limited and most do NOT pay their bills in a timely

manner, and I have experienced THAT first hand. I don't know the answer, but I

do know that universal health care on the order of Canada or GB is NOT the

answer. The Swedish have a pretty good system, but their taxes are sky high, and

I would bet that Armour would STILL he hard to get.

C.

http://catherineshypohelljourney.blogspot.com/

http://www.youngliving.com - essential oils for health

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

cccquilter53@...

Embroidery from the Heart

http://Embfromtheheart.etsy.com

[Guest guest]

Good luck with your idealism. Perhaps you can cite other govt. programs that

work the way they should?

Neil

_____

From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ]

On Behalf Of Gracia

Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 10:12 AM

hypothyroidism

Subject: Re: Re: Health Care

to paraphrase from Sicko:

In the US ppl are afraid of their guvmint.

in France the guvmint is afraid of the ppl

LOL

we can have a functional health care system here too, instead of disease

maintenance.

Gracia

Neil, that is so right on. I have friends in both Canada and GB and the

waiting lines are so long and the care is not that great. Those in GB have

to fight tooth and nail to get Armour and often have to do it themselves.

The strangle hold of the pharmaceutical companies is truly scary. I have had

HMO's and dislike them intensely, as do most doctors that have a real care

for patients. They are very limited and most do NOT pay their bills in a

timely manner, and I have experienced THAT first hand. I don't know the

answer, but I do know that universal health care on the order of Canada or

GB is NOT the answer. The Swedish have a pretty good system, but their taxes

are sky high, and I would bet that Armour would STILL he hard to get.

C.

HYPERLINK

" http://catherineshypohelljourney.blogspot.com/ " http://catherineshy-pohelljo

urney.-blogspot.-com/

HYPERLINK " http://www.youngliving.com " http://www.youngliv-ing.com -

essential oils for health

HYPERLINK

" http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com " http://www.stopthet-hyroidmadness.-com

HYPERLINK " mailto:cccquilter53%40gmail.com " cccquilter53@-gmail.com

Embroidery from the Heart

HYPERLINK " http://Embfromtheheart.etsy.com " http://Embfromthehe-art.etsy.-com

[Guest guest]

The health coverage given to poor disabled folks around the USA is

basically 100% free and easy, no muss no fuss (except paperwork).

THAT, other than the crappy doctors that are in the program, is the

type of coverage the USA should have for everyone.

When I had first broken my back in 1987 and lost literally everything

from my bank account and house to my business and personal

possessions, my health insurance (high premium full coverage with

disability protection blue cross/blue shield) disappeared like a

runaway teen.

The state picked up my medical 100% which included absolutely

everything from Rx's, PT, and appliances to doc appts and hosp stays

and surgeries. That continued nicely until I went onto social

security disability and was switched to an even nicer program which

included dental " everything " .

So yes, that type of " idealististic " medical care is already in

place, just not applied to 100% of us.

Sam

(thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized)

k9gang@...

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-09/IOD_09.htm

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-02/IOD_02.htm

http://www.laurapower.com/iodinedeficiency.htm

http://www.vrp.com/art/1860.asp

http://www.quackcenter.com/ideficiency.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller20.html

http://www.iodine4health.com

http://www.jcrows.com/iodine.html

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/loadTest.htm

http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/loading.html

http://www.helpmythyroid.com/IOD4.htm

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FDL/is_1_13/ai_n17212623

http://www.altsupportthyroid.org/dt.php

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art40118.asp

http://www.type2hypothyroidism.com/Type1VsType2.html

BHRT

http://www.medaus.com/p/Three-Rules-for-Using-BHRT___200,965.html

http://www.thecompounder.com/saliva-vs-serum.pdf

>

> Good luck with your idealism. Perhaps you can cite other govt.

programs that

> work the way they should?

>

> Neil