Guest guest Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 If you believe you'll probably believe that guy. The views are so intensely political presenting the liberal viewpoint that we should probably not go there. .. .. > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@... > <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3AHealth%20Care> > matchermaam <matchermaam> > > > Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:52 am (PDT) > > > > > > http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html > <http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html> > > Roni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I have contacted mine too, for single payor. Sadly, my one Senator I voted for turned out to be a blue dog. Won't vote for her again :-) > > Just to let everyone know that I called my Congressman about this proposed > health care " reform " . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Absolutely this would be good for LPs. One major component of the plan is that insurance companies can no longer discriminate against people with dwarfism by claiming that they have a pre-existing condition. My brother passed away in February from a treatable condition, but he couldn't get health insurance and therefore the necessary treatment. He worked as a contractor, and not a permanent employee for the state, and therefore was not eligible for the state plan. He tried to apply for private insurance, but kept getting rejected because of his dwarfism. He tried to apply for Medicare, but was ineligible because he was working. A real Catch-22. One of the most frequent calls the LPA main office gets is from people wanting advice on how to get health insurance. Either they are adult LPs just out of college, or who have lost their job, and finding out they can't get coverage, or they are parents of newborn LPs who were suddenly dropped from their plan. In the current health care debate, the biggest concern is not the " Obama plan. " He really didn't set out guidelines, but objectives (everyone is eligible, costs are kept to a minimum, etc.). The problem is what the plan will look like after all the congressman and insurance company lobbyists have had a chance to muck it up. Will it meet the president's objectives? LPA's stand is pro-health care reform. The LPA Advocacy Committee is putting together a policy statement about removing dwarfism as a pre-existing condition. This is a form of legalized discrimination. Bill (LPA Sr. VP) On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Jim<jimcofpa@...> wrote: > > > Hello I have been thinking of President Obama's plan for health care. and > while I have been thinking does this help us LP's or hurt. I would like to > know what LPA's stand is so I can be better informed. > > Thanks, > > Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 I would agree with BJ on this one as well. While there is a huge resistance against any universal health care plan (whether it be under Obama's administration or not), I think middle-class America is in dire straits for a federally-funded health insurance. The number one reason for Americans filing bankruptcy these days is not being able to pay back huge hospital bills. Like Dave, my insurance agent of my previous employer was resistant with me in getting a MRI done b/c of my current spinal stenosis - and they were reluctant on covering me. I ended up not doing it because I did not want to pay a couple thousand dollars out-of-pocket. Instead, I would rather wait for my current employer's insurance to kick in - but that means waiting for another agnozing 2 months. Many Americans have been going overseas to Europe, Asia, Canada and Mexico just to buy generic prescription drugs since they're so much cheaper in those countries. That seems to be a dangerous trend. My own (AP) Dad has gone to Asia to have surgeries done b/c the insurance companies wouldn't cover them here... and I believe it was only 1/4 of the cost. Regardless, there are benefits for having privatized health plans - such as the benefits of having a PPO, seeing specialists and having that reassurance of top quality medical care. Privatized plans also means having the top branded prescription drugs (that would benefit companies like Merck, Pfizer and others) and possibly maintain quality control. I imagine that there may be a longer waiting period to see doctors if a Universal system is put in place and that is indeed a downside. However.. in many ways, America's health care system is a commercialized center in itself: the wealthiest or those who can afford health insurance can have the privilege. Those who can't, can resort to Medicare or Medicaid. But for others - like myself, who is a graphic designer (and many studios have lackluster to no medical plans for freelancers), do not often have the luxury to afford high-end insurance but do not qualify for Medicare. So it sucks, unless you're employed by a larger (or a sympathetic) company or by the government. Just my .02, Irene > > > > > > Hello I have been thinking of President Obama's plan for health care. and > > while I have been thinking does this help us LP's or hurt. I would like to > > know what LPA's stand is so I can be better informed. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 if you don't read or listen to anything else today, listen to this. Click here: Fred : Interviews From: & Tammy Crosbie <ezbiz4u_2000@...>Subject: Health careno-forced-vaccination Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 8:15 PM ok....here is the link to the House Health bill. You better read it. If you like it great. Otherwise we better get vocal now.http://www.facebook .com/l/;docs. house.gov/ edlabor/AAHCA- BillText- 071409.pdfA few tid-bits to look at (from the first 500 pages):• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.• Page 124: No company can sue the government for pr ice-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll• Page 167: Any individual who doesn't' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc. • Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.------------ --------To reply to this message, follow the link below:http://www.facebook .com/n/?inbox/ readmessage. php & t=1134927227 662 & mid=dac9aaG6 b151fb9Gfaef3G0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 if you don't read or listen to anything else today, listen to this. Click here: Fred : Interviews From: & Tammy Crosbie <ezbiz4u_2000@...>Subject: Health careno-forced-vaccination Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 8:15 PM ok....here is the link to the House Health bill. You better read it. If you like it great. Otherwise we better get vocal now.http://www.facebook .com/l/;docs. house.gov/ edlabor/AAHCA- BillText- 071409.pdfA few tid-bits to look at (from the first 500 pages):• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.• Page 124: No company can sue the government for pr ice-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll• Page 167: Any individual who doesn't' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc. • Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.------------ --------To reply to this message, follow the link below:http://www.facebook .com/n/?inbox/ readmessage. php & t=1134927227 662 & mid=dac9aaG6 b151fb9Gfaef3G0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 if you don't read or listen to anything else today, listen to this. Click here: Fred : Interviews From: & Tammy Crosbie <ezbiz4u_2000@...>Subject: Health careno-forced-vaccination Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 8:15 PM ok....here is the link to the House Health bill. You better read it. If you like it great. Otherwise we better get vocal now.http://www.facebook .com/l/;docs. house.gov/ edlabor/AAHCA- BillText- 071409.pdfA few tid-bits to look at (from the first 500 pages):• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.• Page 124: No company can sue the government for pr ice-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll• Page 167: Any individual who doesn't' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc. • Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.------------ --------To reply to this message, follow the link below:http://www.facebook .com/n/?inbox/ readmessage. php & t=1134927227 662 & mid=dac9aaG6 b151fb9Gfaef3G0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 if you don't read or listen to anything else today, listen to this. Click here: Fred : Interviews From: & Tammy Crosbie <ezbiz4u_2000@...>Subject: Health careno-forced-vaccination Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 8:15 PM ok....here is the link to the House Health bill. You better read it. If you like it great. Otherwise we better get vocal now.http://www.facebook .com/l/;docs. house.gov/ edlabor/AAHCA- BillText- 071409.pdfA few tid-bits to look at (from the first 500 pages):• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.• Page 124: No company can sue the government for pr ice-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll• Page 167: Any individual who doesn't' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc. • Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.------------ --------To reply to this message, follow the link below:http://www.facebook .com/n/?inbox/ readmessage. php & t=1134927227 662 & mid=dac9aaG6 b151fb9Gfaef3G0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 what your talking about and what is in the house bill are 2 entirely different things. tHATS FINE. bUT when people that know really nothing about this house plan say they want it, it didn't use to bother me. You get what you asked for. but when it affects my son and my wife and my family because some people's lack of knowledge or blind support for an idealistic plan. I HAVE TO FIGHT FOR THE DAMN UNIFORMED FOR MY OWN FREEDOM. THIS IS SERIOUS STUFF HERE. THE WORST PLAN OUT OF GOVERNMENT IN MY 53 YEARS OF LIFE. iT'S MARKIST AND HITLER ISH. AND I WANT NO PART OF IT. IF MY SON NEEDS A BRAIN OPERATION, I WANT MY WIFE AND ME AND OUR DOCTOR MAKING THAT DECISION, NOT A GROUP OF BEUROCRATS IN WASHINGTON. I DON'T WANT THEM TELLING MY ELDERLY MOTHER IN LAW THAT SHE DOESN'T GET A HIP BECAUSE SHE IS TOO OLD, AND SHE SHOULD GET ALONG WITH THE IDEA OF DYING. THOSE WORDS ARE IN THE PLAN. A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE LIKE SHEEP, FOLLOW THE LEADER RIGHT OVER THE CLIFF. I'M TRYING TO STOP IT FOR EVERYONES SAKE! KEITH > From: Tommy Harraghy <harraghy@...> > Subject: RE: health care > " 'keith kowalis' " <wescokk@...> > Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 6:06 PM > No need to be abusive. & no need > to shout. > I didn't comment on " THE DAMN HOUSE PLAN " - your words > > health care > > > you are very naive to say the least. How long have you been > in the u.s.? You > can count on 1 finger how many people in the us that leave > the us to get > better care elsewhere. look at cancer survival rates, > chronic heart disease > rates. > Anytime the government gets involved you lose a bit of your > freedom. You > mmay have had a good plan where you were from, and if you > like it, great, > but don't talk about this plan as it is in the house, being > a good plan. > It's over 1000 pages of how the government will tell you > how to die, and how > the elderly won't get that operation because they are too > old, and to get > along with dying. > LIKE I SAID BEFORE PEOPLE SPEAK READ THE DAMN HOUSE > BILL!!!!! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 can someone please show me where it says that the government will be making decisions and not doctors. i can't seem to find that part.give me the exact wording.cyndi On Jul 30, 2009, at 9:07 AM, keith kowalis wrote: what your talking about and what is in the house bill are 2 entirely different things. tHATS FINE. bUT when people that know really nothing about this house plan say they want it, it didn't use to bother me. You get what you asked for. but when it affects my son and my wife and my family because some people's lack of knowledge or blind support for an idealistic plan. I HAVE TO FIGHT FOR THE DAMN UNIFORMED FOR MY OWN FREEDOM. THIS IS SERIOUS STUFF HERE. THE WORST PLAN OUT OF GOVERNMENT IN MY 53 YEARS OF LIFE. iT'S MARKIST AND HITLER ISH. AND I WANT NO PART OF IT. IF MY SON NEEDS A BRAIN OPERATION, I WANT MY WIFE AND ME AND OUR DOCTOR MAKING THAT DECISION, NOT A GROUP OF BEUROCRATS IN WASHINGTON. I DON'T WANT THEM TELLING MY ELDERLY MOTHER IN LAW THAT SHE DOESN'T GET A HIP BECAUSE SHE IS TOO OLD, AND SHE SHOULD GET ALONG WITH THE IDEA OF DYING. THOSE WORDS ARE IN THE PLAN. A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE LIKE SHEEP, FOLLOW THE LEADER RIGHT OVER THE CLIFF. I'M TRYING TO STOP IT FOR EVERYONES SAKE! KEITH > From: Tommy Harraghy <harraghyutvinternet> > Subject: RE: health care > "'keith kowalis'" <wescokk > > Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 6:06 PM > No need to be abusive. & no need > to shout. > I didn't comment on "THE DAMN HOUSE PLAN" - your words > > health care > > > you are very naive to say the least. How long have you been > in the u.s.? You > can count on 1 finger how many people in the us that leave > the us to get > better care elsewhere. look at cancer survival rates, > chronic heart disease > rates. > Anytime the government gets involved you lose a bit of your > freedom. You > mmay have had a good plan where you were from, and if you > like it, great, > but don't talk about this plan as it is in the house, being > a good plan. > It's over 1000 pages of how the government will tell you > how to die, and how > the elderly won't get that operation because they are too > old, and to get > along with dying. > LIKE I SAID BEFORE PEOPLE SPEAK READ THE DAMN HOUSE > BILL!!!!! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Fred interview w/betsy mccaughey, is great,tells most of the story. From: & Tammy Crosbie <ezbiz4u_2000>Subject: [no-forced-vaccinat ion] Health careno-forced-vaccinati ongroups (DOT) comDate: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 8:15 PM ok....here is the link to the House Health bill. You better read it. If you like it great. Otherwise we better get vocal now.http://www.facebook .com/l/;docs. house.gov/ edlabor/AAHCA- BillText- 071409.pdfA few tid-bits to look at (from the first 500 pages):• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.• Page 124: No company can sue the government for pr ice-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll• Page 167: Any individual who doesn't' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc. • Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.------------ --------To reply to this message, follow the link below:http://www.facebook .com/n/?inbox/ readmessage. php & t=1134927227 662 & mid=dac9aaG6 b151fb9Gfaef3G0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Fred interview w/betsy mccaughey, is great,tells most of the story. From: & Tammy Crosbie <ezbiz4u_2000>Subject: [no-forced-vaccinat ion] Health careno-forced-vaccinati ongroups (DOT) comDate: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 8:15 PM ok....here is the link to the House Health bill. You better read it. If you like it great. Otherwise we better get vocal now.http://www.facebook .com/l/;docs. house.gov/ edlabor/AAHCA- BillText- 071409.pdfA few tid-bits to look at (from the first 500 pages):• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.• Page 124: No company can sue the government for pr ice-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll• Page 167: Any individual who doesn't' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc. • Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.------------ --------To reply to this message, follow the link below:http://www.facebook .com/n/?inbox/ readmessage. php & t=1134927227 662 & mid=dac9aaG6 b151fb9Gfaef3G0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Fred interview w/betsy mccaughey, is great,tells most of the story. From: & Tammy Crosbie <ezbiz4u_2000>Subject: [no-forced-vaccinat ion] Health careno-forced-vaccinati ongroups (DOT) comDate: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 8:15 PM ok....here is the link to the House Health bill. You better read it. If you like it great. Otherwise we better get vocal now.http://www.facebook .com/l/;docs. house.gov/ edlabor/AAHCA- BillText- 071409.pdfA few tid-bits to look at (from the first 500 pages):• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.• Page 124: No company can sue the government for pr ice-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll• Page 167: Any individual who doesn't' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc. • Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.------------ --------To reply to this message, follow the link below:http://www.facebook .com/n/?inbox/ readmessage. php & t=1134927227 662 & mid=dac9aaG6 b151fb9Gfaef3G0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Fred interview w/betsy mccaughey, is great,tells most of the story. From: & Tammy Crosbie <ezbiz4u_2000>Subject: [no-forced-vaccinat ion] Health careno-forced-vaccinati ongroups (DOT) comDate: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 8:15 PM ok....here is the link to the House Health bill. You better read it. If you like it great. Otherwise we better get vocal now.http://www.facebook .com/l/;docs. house.gov/ edlabor/AAHCA- BillText- 071409.pdfA few tid-bits to look at (from the first 500 pages):• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.• Page 124: No company can sue the government for pr ice-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll• Page 167: Any individual who doesn't' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc. • Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.------------ --------To reply to this message, follow the link below:http://www.facebook .com/n/?inbox/ readmessage. php & t=1134927227 662 & mid=dac9aaG6 b151fb9Gfaef3G0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Hi Angelo I too believe in cures and miracles. I also believe big Pharm is smart enough to know that they will ALWAYS make money, even if they cure folks. Why? Because people will always get sick, and diseases are not going to go away. If they fail to come up with cures, why should people give them support? They arent going to cut their own throats, businesswise. So Im betting my money that big Pharm 'will' come up with a cure for HCV, cancer, and all the other goodies people contend with. love don in ks From: Angelo <tommybad238@...>Subject: [ ] Health Care Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 11:10 PM I prefer a more upbeat positive approach, an approach that not only believes cures arepossible, but also believes in miracles. Not much money in that though is there andthat's one of the big problems with health care for profit. No money to be made frompeople once they are cured or well.<(o¿o)> You have to remember what it cost to put a new drug out there and what these clinical trials cost. Big pharma and your doctor are not your enemies. They have to make a profit to. Pharmacutical Co. employ tens of thousands of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Hi Angelo, Quite true. I'm a stockholder in several pharmaceutical companies and have also traded drug store stocks in the past and am a retired pharmacy technician. Let's not forget how much lobbying it takes to keep drugs like marijuana illegal so they can charge an arm and a leg for anti-nausea drugs that aren't as good as smoking a joint and we all know it. Look how much they make pushing anti-depressants while at the same time suppressing LSD, mushrooms, and the other psychedelics that would straighten some of these folks out real quick. Look how much they make pushing Vicodin laced with Tylenol which we know is toxic while at the same time keeping the beautiful poppy illegal and demonizing the divine opium which does no organic body damage. Sure big pharma is a real pal, just like the liquor industry and the tobacco industry, real pals they are for sure with a war on some drugs being waged for the better part of our lives and the concomitant demonizing of IV drug users and by association HCV patients. Real pals they are, when all they have is a cure that is quite possibly worse than the disease. A living they deserve to make but not a killing. Some of those execs take down a million a week and more. ymmv,‹(•¿•)› Ress Felton, CAlaw of abundancevisualize health only good lies before me From: Angelo <tommybad238@...>Subject: [ ] Health Care Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 9:10 PM I prefer a more upbeat positive approach, an approach that not only believes cures arepossible, but also believes in miracles. Not much money in that though is there andthat's one of the big problems with health care for profit. No money to be made frompeople once they are cured or well.<(o¿o)> You have to remember what it cost to put a new drug out there and what these clinical trials cost. Big pharma and your doctor are not your enemies. They have to make a profit to. Pharmacutical Co. employ tens of thousands of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Hi -prepare for my 'rant'. lol I dont think I am understanding you or your logic. 1 - On one hand you say you hold stock in Tobacco and Pharm, thus supporting them, and them, you. On the other hand you demonize both of them by making comments in this post about Pharm vs illegal drug use [and more], and your other posts about tobacco use. I dont get it. 2 - I also dont get how you can say LSD, mushrooms, etc, are better than anti-D's? I am an old old hippy, and have taken every drug known, BUNCHES of times. Legal and illegal. Psychedellics? Dont get me started. Ive got stories that will blow your mind. Opium? Ive been strung out on that one for over a decade. [You say it does no harm.] Alcohol? That one too. MJ? Yep, 50 years of that one. Tobacco? All my life, and still am. Coke, meth, downers, uppers, twisters, yep, yep, yep. Where is your proof and clinical studys to back your comments? Feed your sick kid opium or LSD instead of Tylenol or AD's. OMG !!!!! 3 - I put out the statement a few times that even SVR is not a 'cure' of HCV. Several folks reminded me that even tho its true, [backed up by labs and science], it destroys 'hope' by saying such a thing. I submit to you that your negative comments about big Pharm NOT finding a cure for HCV, has the same impact on those infected. Do you really believe this just because they havent been successful yet? Again, I submit to you that big Pharm, 'worldwide', is actively seeking understanding and 'cures'. http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/info/new is just one source [of many many] of the massive efforts being made by thousands of labs 'worldwide' in finding cures. Surely, they arent ALL worshipping the mighty dollar, or lobbying for power and control? Please dont get me wrong. I am not dismissing your viewpoints or trying to put them down. I am not disrespecting you, and hope you dont see my bringing up such points and questions as such. I just dont 'get it', [your viewpoints], and I hope to God your wrong. I do disagree with a bunch that you say. I want to be cured of my HCV, and I am holding strong for that cure. If big Pharm, [or you with your stock], makes a buck, cool. Again, answers and 'cures' are in the pipeline, and WILL be available one of these days. I believe this to be true. Ive experianced medical advances with my own eyes and life. Millions are alive today because......................... -'rant' fini...lol love don in ks From: Angelo <tommybad238@...>Subject: [ ] Health Care Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 9:10 PM I prefer a more upbeat positive approach, an approach that not only believes cures arepossible, but also believes in miracles. Not much money in that though is there andthat's one of the big problems with health care for profit. No money to be made frompeople once they are cured or well.<(o¿o)> You have to remember what it cost to put a new drug out there and what these clinical trials cost. Big pharma and your doctor are not your enemies. They have to make a profit to. Pharmacutical Co. employ tens of thousands of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Hi Don, Thanks for the inquiry. You had several questions but I'll address only one because yesterday I was shocked to find out there are 800? members in this group and only a handful are posting. To me this means that some of us are over posting or intimidating to the others. Speak up the rest of you. I'm going to sit back and post less. I won't monopolize the floor. Yes I'm a stockholder of Pfizer and as a voting stockholder I have more influence on the conduct of the company than as a non-stockholder so I can in my small way influence such things as executive compensation. I'm also a stockholder of Given Imaging which makes a camera pill a patient can swallow and get pictures from inside the body. I bought stock in that company because I believe in it. I'm also a stockholder of Vector tobacco. It makes one of the healthier cigarettes. Now I'm going to settle back into the reading mode and hope some of the hundreds of list members who aren't posting will take this opportunity to give a little. This list isn't just about taking, it is also about sharing, so come on share something. Best, A good cigar is like a beautiful chick with a great body who also knows the American League box scores. ~M*A*S*H, Klinger, "Bug-Out," 1976 Hi -prepare for my 'rant'. lol I dont think I am understanding you or your logic. 1 - On one hand you say you hold stock in Tobacco and Pharm, thus supporting them, and them, you. On the other hand you demonize both of them by making comments in this post about Pharm vs illegal drug use [and more], and your other posts about tobacco use. I dont get it. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 , you sound like such a hipocrit, while you bash the Pharms, you invest in them, you know Pfizer is the big dog so its about the almighty dollar, well i bet you just lost some of that with thier fradulant ways. The Pharms. run the stock market which in turn run the world, they are our only hope besides God himself for a cure or just a not so sickly life. You keep investing the almighty dollar because they need your money to help people like me. No i dont have stock in tobacco, the healthy kind as you say LOL, nor stock in anything nor anyone but God. So I hope whatever you do works for you. Sounds like the meds are affecting your thought process, or just a lot of anger there, Dont know, but u have made me not want to be a part of this sit at all. Good Luck with your negativity WWJD From: Christ <ludichrist2000@...> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 2:58:37 AMSubject: Re: [ ] Health Care Hi -prepare for my 'rant'. lol I dont think I am understanding you or your logic. 1 - On one hand you say you hold stock in Tobacco and Pharm, thus supporting them, and them, you. On the other hand you demonize both of them by making comments in this post about Pharm vs illegal drug use [and more], and your other posts about tobacco use. I dont get it. 2 - I also dont get how you can say LSD, mushrooms, etc, are better than anti-D's? I am an old old hippy, and have taken every drug known, BUNCHES of times. Legal and illegal. Psychedellics? Dont get me started. Ive got stories that will blow your mind. Opium? Ive been strung out on that one for over a decade. [You say it does no harm.] Alcohol? That one too. MJ? Yep, 50 years of that one. Tobacco? All my life, and still am. Coke, meth, downers, uppers, twisters, yep, yep, yep. Where is your proof and clinical studys to back your comments? Feed your sick kid opium or LSD instead of Tylenol or AD's. OMG !!!!! 3 - I put out the statement a few times that even SVR is not a 'cure' of HCV. Several folks reminded me that even tho its true, [backed up by labs and science], it destroys 'hope' by saying such a thing. I submit to you that your negative comments about big Pharm NOT finding a cure for HCV, has the same impact on those infected. Do you really believe this just because they havent been successful yet? Again, I submit to you that big Pharm, 'worldwide', is actively seeking understanding and 'cures'. http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/info/new is just one source [of many many] of the massive efforts being made by thousands of labs 'worldwide' in finding cures. Surely, they arent ALL worshipping the mighty dollar, or lobbying for power and control? Please dont get me wrong. I am not dismissing your viewpoints or trying to put them down. I am not disrespecting you, and hope you dont see my bringing up such points and questions as such. I just dont 'get it', [your viewpoints], and I hope to God your wrong. I do disagree with a bunch that you say. I want to be cured of my HCV, and I am holding strong for that cure. If big Pharm, [or you with your stock], makes a buck, cool. Again, answers and 'cures' are in the pipeline, and WILL be available one of these days. I believe this to be true. Ive experianced medical advances with my own eyes and life. Millions are alive today because..... ......... ......... .. -'rant' fini...lol love don in ks From: Angelo <tommybad238>Subject: [ ] Health Care Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 9:10 PM I prefer a more upbeat positive approach, an approach that not only believes cures arepossible, but also believes in miracles. Not much money in that though is there andthat's one of the big problems with health care for profit. No money to be made frompeople once they are cured or well.<(o¿o)> You have to remember what it cost to put a new drug out there and what these clinical trials cost. Big pharma and your doctor are not your enemies. They have to make a profit to. Pharmacutical Co. employ tens of thousands of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Many times I have been at odds with many people on this list.While I do not agree with all I respect their right to say it.I do not advocate, nor support some of the things some of our members do. Not legal drugs, commercial drugs, etc.As 1st a Born-Again believer, a Pastor I do not berate, condemn, or publicly rebuke anyone in the manner that was launched against Michele.WWJD is the sig. it means What Would Jesus Do.... Jesus would have spoken to the person which he had problem with...personallyWhile I do not agree and or approve of what she uses to combat and deal with her HCV. She has free will. We will not win her or anyone else to Christ buy blatant public criticism.I am sure Don and the owners would be sad to you leave the list, as they will be for anyone. However, you also have free will, I apologize for the ranting and condemnation by a person supposedly representing ChristFrom our home to your home, we pray and speak blessings, success and prosperity.Dr. Walter L. Scheu, Sr. - PastorRestoration Community Fellowship From: Angelo <tommybad238>Subject: [ ] Health Care Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 9:10 PM I prefer a more upbeat positive approach, an approach that not only believes cures arepossible, but also believes in miracles. Not much money in that though is there andthat's one of the big problems with health care for profit. No money to be made frompeople once they are cured or well.<(o¿o)> You have to remember what it cost to put a new drug out there and what these clinical trials cost. Big pharma and your doctor are not your enemies. They have to make a profit to. Pharmacutical Co. employ tens of thousands of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Thanks for that Walter. I too am a born again Christian. I wanted more people to post however I didn't expect to be attacked with that posting. I'm not angry. I write to facilitate the thinking of others and to share what I have to share. You'll never see me attack anyone or pity them over the Internet. I didn't know what WWJD meant so you taught me something and for that I thank you as well. best, *************************************************************************************************** , I apologize for the ranting and condemnation by a person supposedly representing Christ From our home to your home, we pray and speak blessings, success and prosperity.Dr. Walter L. Scheu, Sr. - PastorRestoration Community Fellowship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 I lean far more Don's way that I ever could in 's theories!!!, does it not dawn on you that those of us who have lived with addiction could possibly know just how unhealthy those street drugs are??? Personally, I don't care how much pot you want to smoke, I'll probably be there soon enough and I don't even like it.However, how can you compare LSD or mushrooms with an anti-D ??? Having done all three, I don't even understand your correlation there. When I need something to smooth the rough edges, I'm sure not going to be reaching for LSD or mushrooms. I could go on as well, but, Don pretty much wrapped it up in a neat package.By the way, how is telling people the TRUTH about there not being a cure yet for HepC so negative??? It's the truth!!! All they know after a little over 20 yrs of research is that it is possible for some to attain that almighty Sustained Viral Response.Gloria Hi -prepare for my 'rant'. lol I dont think I am understanding you or your logic. 1 - On one hand you say you hold stock in Tobacco and Pharm, thus supporting them, and them, you. On the other hand you demonize both of them by making comments in this post about Pharm vs illegal drug use [and more], and your other posts about tobacco use. I dont get it. 2 - I also dont get how you can say LSD, mushrooms, etc, are better than anti-D's? I am an old old hippy, and have taken every drug known, BUNCHES of times. Legal and illegal. Psychedellics? Dont get me started. Ive got stories that will blow your mind. Opium? Ive been strung out on that one for over a decade. [You say it does no harm.] Alcohol? That one too. MJ? Yep, 50 years of that one. Tobacco? All my life, and still am. Coke, meth, downers, uppers, twisters, yep, yep, yep. Where is your proof and clinical studys to back your comments? Feed your sick kid opium or LSD instead of Tylenol or AD's. OMG !!!!! 3 - I put out the statement a few times that even SVR is not a 'cure' of HCV. Several folks reminded me that even tho its true, [backed up by labs and science], it destroys 'hope' by saying such a thing. I submit to you that your negative comments about big Pharm NOT finding a cure for HCV, has the same impact on those infected. Do you really believe this just because they havent been successful yet? Again, I submit to you that big Pharm, 'worldwide', is actively seeking understanding and 'cures'. http://www.clinical trials.gov/ ct2/info/ new is just one source [of many many] of the massive efforts being made by thousands of labs 'worldwide' in finding cures. Surely, they arent ALL worshipping the mighty dollar, or lobbying for power and control? Please dont get me wrong. I am not dismissing your viewpoints or trying to put them down. I am not disrespecting you, and hope you dont see my bringing up such points and questions as such. I just dont 'get it', [your viewpoints], and I hope to God your wrong. I do disagree with a bunch that you say. I want to be cured of my HCV, and I am holding strong for that cure. If big Pharm, [or you with your stock], makes a buck, cool. Again, answers and 'cures' are in the pipeline, and WILL be available one of these days. I believe this to be true. Ive experianced medical advances with my own eyes and life. Millions are alive today because..... ......... .......... .. -'rant' fini...lol love don in ks From: Angelo <tommybad238>Subject: [ ] Health Care Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 9:10 PM I prefer a more upbeat positive approach, an approach that not only believes cures arepossible, but also believes in miracles. Not much money in that though is there andthat's one of the big problems with health care for profit. No money to be made frompeople once they are cured or well.<(o¿o)> You have to remember what it cost to put a new drug out there and what these clinical trials cost. Big pharma and your doctor are not your enemies. They have to make a profit to. Pharmacutical Co. employ tens of thousands of people.. Canada Toolbar : Search from anywhere on the web and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 BettyPlease do not think like that just because of !! We need your input big time!! just is the way she is and thinks the way she does. Good on you for standing up to your beliefs too.Personally, I really need someone like yourself, that seems to have a whole lot of compassion and a positive approach. I will be sharing with the group in a little while some new worrys that I have been handed this week and will likely need some hand holding until I get through this new phase.Gloria , you sound like such a hipocrit, while you bash the Pharms, you invest in them, you know Pfizer is the big dog so its about the almighty dollar, well i bet you just lost some of that with thier fradulant ways. The Pharms. run the stock market which in turn run the world, they are our only hope besides God himself for a cure or just a not so sickly life. You keep investing the almighty dollar because they need your money to help people like me. No i dont have stock in tobacco, the healthy kind as you say LOL, nor stock in anything nor anyone but God. So I hope whatever you do works for you. Sounds like the meds are affecting your thought process, or just a lot of anger there, Dont know, but u have made me not want to be a part of this sit at all. Good Luck with your negativity WWJD From: Christ <ludichrist2000> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 2:58:37 AMSubject: Re: [ ] Health Care Hi -prepare for my 'rant'. lol I dont think I am understanding you or your logic. 1 - On one hand you say you hold stock in Tobacco and Pharm, thus supporting them, and them, you.. On the other hand you demonize both of them by making comments in this post about Pharm vs illegal drug use [and more], and your other posts about tobacco use. I dont get it. 2 - I also dont get how you can say LSD, mushrooms, etc, are better than anti-D's? I am an old old hippy, and have taken every drug known, BUNCHES of times. Legal and illegal. Psychedellics? Dont get me started. Ive got stories that will blow your mind. Opium? Ive been strung out on that one for over a decade. [You say it does no harm.] Alcohol? That one too. MJ? Yep, 50 years of that one. Tobacco? All my life, and still am. Coke, meth, downers, uppers, twisters, yep, yep, yep. Where is your proof and clinical studys to back your comments? Feed your sick kid opium or LSD instead of Tylenol or AD's. OMG !!!!! 3 - I put out the statement a few times that even SVR is not a 'cure' of HCV. Several folks reminded me that even tho its true, [backed up by labs and science], it destroys 'hope' by saying such a thing. I submit to you that your negative comments about big Pharm NOT finding a cure for HCV, has the same impact on those infected. Do you really believe this just because they havent been successful yet? Again, I submit to you that big Pharm, 'worldwide', is actively seeking understanding and 'cures'. http://www.clinical trials.gov/ ct2/info/ new is just one source [of many many] of the massive efforts being made by thousands of labs 'worldwide' in finding cures. Surely, they arent ALL worshipping the mighty dollar, or lobbying for power and control? Please dont get me wrong. I am not dismissing your viewpoints or trying to put them down. I am not disrespecting you, and hope you dont see my bringing up such points and questions as such. I just dont 'get it', [your viewpoints], and I hope to God your wrong. I do disagree with a bunch that you say. I want to be cured of my HCV, and I am holding strong for that cure. If big Pharm, [or you with your stock], makes a buck, cool. Again, answers and 'cures' are in the pipeline, and WILL be available one of these days. I believe this to be true. Ive experianced medical advances with my own eyes and life. Millions are alive today because..... ......... ......... .. -'rant' fini...lol love don in ks From: Angelo <tommybad238>Subject: [ ] Health Care Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 9:10 PM I prefer a more upbeat positive approach, an approach that not only believes cures arepossible, but also believes in miracles. Not much money in that though is there andthat's one of the big problems with health care for profit. No money to be made frompeople once they are cured or well.<(o¿o)> You have to remember what it cost to put a new drug out there and what these clinical trials cost. Big pharma and your doctor are not your enemies.. They have to make a profit to. Pharmacutical Co. employ tens of thousands of people. Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 WalterPerhaps you should go back over a lot of posts and get the true idea !!! I am not a Born-Again anything but a recovering Alcoholic, I am not a Pastor nor do I care to follow any "religion" per se.. But, I know GOD and he walks with me always. I too believe that you, or anyone here has the absolute right to follow whatever course of medication they are led to.However, I also believe that you should not have condemned Betty in any way whatsoever. You have just done the very thing that you condemned her for and what gives you that right???Again, I suggest that you begin reading ALL of the posts and not just pick and choose, that way perhaps you would get a more honest read on people in here.Gloria Many times I have been at odds with many people on this list.While I do not agree with all I respect their right to say it.I do not advocate, nor support some of the things some of our members do. Not legal drugs, commercial drugs, etc.As 1st a Born-Again believer, a Pastor I do not berate, condemn, or publicly rebuke anyone in the manner that was launched against Michele.WWJD is the sig. it means What Would Jesus Do.... Jesus would have spoken to the person which he had problem with...personallyWhile I do not agree and or approve of what she uses to combat and deal with her HCV. She has free will. We will not win her or anyone else to Christ buy blatant public criticism.I am sure Don and the owners would be sad to you leave the list, as they will be for anyone. However, you also have free will, I apologize for the ranting and condemnation by a person supposedly representing ChristFrom our home to your home, we pray and speak blessings, success and prosperity.Dr. Walter L. Scheu, Sr. - PastorRestoration Community Fellowship From: Angelo <tommybad238>Subject: [ ] Health Care Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 9:10 PM I prefer a more upbeat positive approach, an approach that not only believes cures arepossible, but also believes in miracles. Not much money in that though is there andthat's one of the big problems with health care for profit. No money to be made frompeople once they are cured or well.<(o¿o)> You have to remember what it cost to put a new drug out there and what these clinical trials cost. Big pharma and your doctor are not your enemies. They have to make a profit to. Pharmacutical Co. employ tens of thousands of people. Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 You may be surprised to find more compassion than you think or care to admit is here in this group.Just do not think or try to believe that just because someone does not agree with you that they have no caring, compassion, etc.From our home to your home, we pray and speak blessings, success and prosperity.Dr. Walter L. Scheu, Sr. - PastorRestoration Community Fellowship From: Angelo <tommybad238>Subject: [ ] Health Care Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 9:10 PM I prefer a more upbeat positive approach, an approach that not only believes cures arepossible, but also believes in miracles. Not much money in that though is there andthat's one of the big problems with health care for profit. No money to be made frompeople once they are cured or well.<(o¿o)> You have to remember what it cost to put a new drug out there and what these clinical trials cost. Big pharma and your doctor are not your enemies.. They have to make a profit to. Pharmacutical Co. employ tens of thousands of people. Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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