Re: Methotrexate injections

[Guest guest]

Hello, Betty! Welcome back. Sorry you had some email setup chores to

contend with. Hope everything is in order and works well now.

Methotrexate was really designed to be taken by injection. The oral form

was developed to give patients more options and to increase compliance.

Unfortunately, as in your own case, oral methotrexate is more likely to

produce GI irritation.

It's also a question of bioavailability. If one takes MTX orally as

opposed to parenterally (by injection), less of the drug actually is

available to one's body since it has to pass through the digestive tract

instead of entering the bloodstream directly.

Here's a Medscape discussion entitled " Ask the Experts - Oral or

Parenteral Methotrexate? "

www.medscape.com/viewarticle/413974

(registration is free and relatively fast)

A little more about the bioavailability concept in a Q & A from Aventis:

http://www.aventis.com/main/0,1003,EN-XX-26100-42850--,FF.html

I believe injections are the way to go.

---- Original Message -----

From: " betty mcandrews " <bettyva690@...>

< >

Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 6:33 AM

Subject: [ ] Methotrexate Injections

> Hi All - I'm glad to be back. For several days, I was

> lost in the maze of trying to set up a new e-mail

> address and " get back to the group " . I'm so sorry some

> of you folks are having such a rough time right now

> and hope you all are feeling MUCH better by now! I

> have one question I'm sure one of you can answer. I

> had severe reactions to the methotrexate pills and

> switched to the liquid in orange juice at a low dosage

> of .2 cc/week. I don't have the problems on this.

> However, my doctor is now suggesting that I take it by

> injection and I wonder what the advantages are to this

> method. Putting a needle in myself doesn't sound like

> fun and I'm concerned that injections may cause more

> severe side effects. Does anyone know? I don't see the

> doctor till January but would like to know more about

> this before I talk to him again. My feeling is " why

> rock the boat " since the meds I'm taking now seem to

> be helping. My wrists which were swollen to twice

> their size are now normal and the hugh swelling on one

> elbow has disappeared completely. Does someone have

> any thoughts? Thanks alot.

> My Best Wishes to all of you!

> Betty

[Guest guest]

,

I am on injections with metho. I had to do this with all the stomach

problems. I agree I think it is better. The injections are no big deal and

I don't seem to have any problems.

Lynn (MeMom)

wrote:

> Hello, Betty! Welcome back. Sorry you had some email setup chores to

> contend with. Hope everything is in order and works well now.

>

> Methotrexate was really designed to be taken by injection. The oral form

> was developed to give patients more options and to increase compliance.

> Unfortunately, as in your own case, oral methotrexate is more likely to

> produce GI irritation.

>

> It's also a question of bioavailability. If one takes MTX orally as

> opposed to parenterally (by injection), less of the drug actually is

> available to one's body since it has to pass through the digestive tract

> instead of entering the bloodstream directly.

>

> Here's a Medscape discussion entitled " Ask the Experts - Oral or

> Parenteral Methotrexate? "

>

> www.medscape.com/viewarticle/413974

> (registration is free and relatively fast)

>

> A little more about the bioavailability concept in a Q & A from Aventis:

> http://www.aventis.com/main/0,1003,EN-XX-26100-42850--,FF.html

>

> I believe injections are the way to go.

>

>

>

> ---- Original Message -----

> From: " betty mcandrews " <bettyva690@...>

> < >

> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 6:33 AM

> Subject: [ ] Methotrexate Injections

>

> > Hi All - I'm glad to be back. For several days, I was

> > lost in the maze of trying to set up a new e-mail

> > address and " get back to the group " . I'm so sorry some

> > of you folks are having such a rough time right now

> > and hope you all are feeling MUCH better by now! I

> > have one question I'm sure one of you can answer. I

> > had severe reactions to the methotrexate pills and

> > switched to the liquid in orange juice at a low dosage

> > of .2 cc/week. I don't have the problems on this.

> > However, my doctor is now suggesting that I take it by

> > injection and I wonder what the advantages are to this

> > method. Putting a needle in myself doesn't sound like

> > fun and I'm concerned that injections may cause more

> > severe side effects. Does anyone know? I don't see the

> > doctor till January but would like to know more about

> > this before I talk to him again. My feeling is " why

> > rock the boat " since the meds I'm taking now seem to

> > be helping. My wrists which were swollen to twice

> > their size are now normal and the hugh swelling on one

> > elbow has disappeared completely. Does someone have

> > any thoughts? Thanks alot.

> > My Best Wishes to all of you!

> > Betty

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

My doctor is going to put me on Humira in early May. Why were you

taken off of them? I'm currently taking methotrexate in the pill

form (8/week). What's the difference in the injections (methotrexate

vs. Humira)?

> Hi Everyone,

>

> Without elaborating too much, I saw my rheumy today and she took me

> off of Humira and put me on Methotrexate Injections. I will start

> with 15 mgs and will increase to 20.

>

> Is anyone on it or used it that can give me some information? I

used

> to take the pills but ended up deathly ill from nausea.

> Please let me know.

>

> My love to all.

>

> Alan

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Welcome! Yes, many of us hear " but you look fine " all the time. In

fact, I just got back from lunch with an old friend that said he

would never guess what I go through by looking at me.

I was taken off Humira because of headaches, nausea and fatigue.

After 10 weeks I really wasn't reaping the benefits of the drug.

Also, by 6-7 days my RA symptoms were back in full swing. My Rheumy

said doctors have been prescribing it once a week now instead of

every two weeks but that can be extrememly expensive.

For me the biggest difference in the injection is the burning. Humira

burns going in. It usually subsides immediately but for me it was

like holding a lit cigarette to my skin. I am not trying to scare you

because everyone reacts differently.

I hope that you find relief and that Humira works for you.

All my best,

Alan

> Hi,

>

> My doctor is going to put me on Humira in early May. Why were you

> taken off of them? I'm currently taking methotrexate in the pill

> form (8/week). What's the difference in the injections

(methotrexate

> vs. Humira)?

>

> --- In , " Alan " <kb9vrq@y...>

wrote:

> > Hi Everyone,

> >

> > Without elaborating too much, I saw my rheumy today and she took

me

> > off of Humira and put me on Methotrexate Injections. I will start

> > with 15 mgs and will increase to 20.

> >

> > Is anyone on it or used it that can give me some information? I

> used

> > to take the pills but ended up deathly ill from nausea.

> > Please let me know.

> >

> > My love to all.

> >

> > Alan

[Guest guest]

Hi Alan,

I'm so sorry to hear that the Humira didn't work out for you. I've been

15 mg injectible MTX for a while now, and I'm doing pretty well with it.

I think the injectible form has less side effects, and it's supposed to

work better also. If you end up with problems with nausea, you might

want to ask your rheumy to give you something for the night you take it,

like phenergen. Mine did that for me when I first went on the tablets,

and I only needed it for a month or so. It seems after a time your body

adjusts to it.

Let us know how it goes.

Love you,

Carol

[ ] Methotrexate Injections

Hi Everyone,

Without elaborating too much, I saw my rheumy today and she took me

off of Humira and put me on Methotrexate Injections. I will start

with 15 mgs and will increase to 20.

Is anyone on it or used it that can give me some information? I used

to take the pills but ended up deathly ill from nausea.

Please let me know.

My love to all.

Alan

[Guest guest]

Hi Carol,

Thanks. Thanks also for letting me know how the MTX is going. How

long did it take for it to kick in? I have read anywhere from 3-14

weeks which is all over the board. As long as I don't have to take

Prednisone again...

If I end up feeling sick, I'll defintely bring up phenergen. Thanks

for the advice.

How have you been doing? I know you've had some real bad ups and

downs. I hope you are doing better.

I love you too Carol...

Alan

> Hi Alan,

>

> I'm so sorry to hear that the Humira didn't work out for you. I've

been

> 15 mg injectible MTX for a while now, and I'm doing pretty well

with it.

> I think the injectible form has less side effects, and it's

supposed to

> work better also. If you end up with problems with nausea, you

might

> want to ask your rheumy to give you something for the night you

take it,

> like phenergen. Mine did that for me when I first went on the

tablets,

> and I only needed it for a month or so. It seems after a time your

body

> adjusts to it.

>

> Let us know how it goes.

>

> Love you,

> Carol

>

> [ ] Methotrexate Injections

>

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> Without elaborating too much, I saw my rheumy today and she took me

> off of Humira and put me on Methotrexate Injections. I will start

> with 15 mgs and will increase to 20.

>

> Is anyone on it or used it that can give me some information? I

used

> to take the pills but ended up deathly ill from nausea.

> Please let me know.

>

> My love to all.

>

> Alan

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi again, Iam sorry for the last E-mail, as you read I had a brain

fart, I read it a little more closely like I should have done in the frist

place, you don't get sick from the mtx injections, just a little tired and a

sore rump after a while unless your putting it in your leg.

Jane

Alan <kb9vrq@...> wrote:Hi Everyone,

Without elaborating too much, I saw my rheumy today and she took me

off of Humira and put me on Methotrexate Injections. I will start

with 15 mgs and will increase to 20.

Is anyone on it or used it that can give me some information? I used

to take the pills but ended up deathly ill from nausea.

Please let me know.

My love to all.

Alan

[Guest guest]

Hi again,

Actually, that's what I though you meant... I inject myself in the

thigh. I didn't know it could make you tired.

Thanks again!!!

Hugs,

Alan

Hi Everyone,

>

> Without elaborating too much, I saw my rheumy today and she took me

> off of Humira and put me on Methotrexate Injections. I will start

> with 15 mgs and will increase to 20.

>

> Is anyone on it or used it that can give me some information? I

used

> to take the pills but ended up deathly ill from nausea.

> Please let me know.

>

> My love to all.

>

> Alan

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Alan, I am currently on Methotrexate injections, 27 mg, I have been

on the injections for 1 1/2 years. My rheumy in Wenatchee told me

more of the med gets where it needs to go with the injections, so is

supposed to be more affective. Also doesn't go through the stomach

so isn't so hard on it. That doesn't mean it won't cause nausea, not

sure about that. I have been on Mx for long enough now that it is

backing off so they are going to try Humira, wasn't excited about

someone saying it burns. This disease is the pits, I wish it would

just go away, I know Dream On!! I don't suppose anyone else feels

that way, hahaha.

Hope this helps! in Central Oregon

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks for getting back to me and for providing the information. Yes,

the Humira does unfortunately burn a bit going in. I guess none of us

are strangers to pain anyway.

So, did the MTX start to lose its effectiveness after 1 1/2 years or

were you on pills and now injections?

Do you recall how long it took for it to start working?

Any answers would be most appreciated.

Take care,

Hugs,

Alan

--- In , " grannyfellx6 " <grannyfellx6@y...>

wrote:

> Alan, I am currently on Methotrexate injections, 27 mg, I have been

> on the injections for 1 1/2 years. My rheumy in Wenatchee told me

> more of the med gets where it needs to go with the injections, so

is

> supposed to be more affective. Also doesn't go through the stomach

> so isn't so hard on it. That doesn't mean it won't cause nausea,

not

> sure about that. I have been on Mx for long enough now that it is

> backing off so they are going to try Humira, wasn't excited about

> someone saying it burns. This disease is the pits, I wish it would

> just go away, I know Dream On!! I don't suppose anyone else feels

> that way, hahaha.

>

> Hope this helps! in Central Oregon

[Guest guest]

hey alan she has me on it too. gotta tell you for me it was worse in the

beginning. i stuck it out through the 6 weeks and it has gotten me from

sitting at home to working part time for the first time in 2 years!!! hang in

there and try to stick it out. kathy in il

[Guest guest]

i got sick from the injections. first really bad, but it has really subsided.

i might get a little icky saturday after my friday injection. by sunday i am

back to normal. still worth it to me. kathy in il

[Guest guest]

Why not elaborate, Al, LOL? I usually want to hear the gory details.

Seriously, I'm very sorry that you have to discontinue the Humira.

Good luck with the MTX injections. I really think that MTX, especially

the injectable form, is always worth a try.

[ ] Methotrexate Injections

> Hi Everyone,

>

> Without elaborating too much, I saw my rheumy today and she took me

> off of Humira and put me on Methotrexate Injections. I will start

> with 15 mgs and will increase to 20.

>

> Is anyone on it or used it that can give me some information? I used

> to take the pills but ended up deathly ill from nausea.

> Please let me know.

>

> My love to all.

>

> Alan

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathy,

That is good to know. Thank you. I am currently feeling a bit funky

from it and my mouth bleeds when I brush my teeth, but it hasn't torn

up my stomach like the pills did.

I am going to stick it out. I am so glad it has worked for you like

it has.

Take care.

Love and hugs,

Alan

> hey alan she has me on it too. gotta tell you for me it was worse

in the

> beginning. i stuck it out through the 6 weeks and it has gotten me

from

> sitting at home to working part time for the first time in 2

years!!! hang in

> there and try to stick it out. kathy in il

[Guest guest]

Thanks again Kathy!!

Hugs,

Alan

> i got sick from the injections. first really bad, but it has really

subsided.

> i might get a little icky saturday after my friday injection. by

sunday i am

> back to normal. still worth it to me. kathy in il

[Guest guest]

Well, , they really weren't that gory to satisfy your morbid

curiosity...

The main reason she took me off Humira was because I kept getting bad

headaches, massive nausea, and my fatigue would come back every 5-6

days. No explosive bowels, profuse bleeding, or spontaneous

combustion, sorry..LOL!

Thanks for your good wishes.

Hugs,

Alan

> Why not elaborate, Al, LOL? I usually want to hear the gory details.

> Seriously, I'm very sorry that you have to discontinue the Humira.

>

> Good luck with the MTX injections. I really think that MTX,

especially

> the injectable form, is always worth a try.

>

>

>

>

>

> [ ] Methotrexate Injections

>

>

> > Hi Everyone,

> >

> > Without elaborating too much, I saw my rheumy today and she took

me

> > off of Humira and put me on Methotrexate Injections. I will start

> > with 15 mgs and will increase to 20.

> >

> > Is anyone on it or used it that can give me some information? I

used

> > to take the pills but ended up deathly ill from nausea.

> > Please let me know.

> >

> > My love to all.

> >

> > Alan

[Guest guest]

Darn it! I love a good horror story. Actually, what you've described

sounds pretty awful. I am so sorry, Al.

With any luck, the MTX will work this time.

If it doesn't, don't worry. Other things are coming.

[ ] Re: Methotrexate Injections

> Well, , they really weren't that gory to satisfy your morbid

> curiosity...

>

> The main reason she took me off Humira was because I kept getting bad

> headaches, massive nausea, and my fatigue would come back every 5-6

> days. No explosive bowels, profuse bleeding, or spontaneous

> combustion, sorry..LOL!

>

> Thanks for your good wishes.

>

> Hugs,

>

> Alan

[Guest guest]

me too, now if i could only get my back to cooperate!! i have spent over $100

at the chiro in 2 days. woke up again this morning and my back is still

wierd. i have a heat pack on it today and hoping to stay away from the

prednisone!! the pain is horrible and has brought me to tears at least 5

times in the past 2 days. makes it very hard to walk or bend. waaah!!!! kathy

in il

[Guest guest]

((((((((((((((((((((((((((Kathy)))))))))))))))))))))))))

I'm sorry you are in so much pain, dear friend. As I'm sure you will,

take the weekend to rest and be good to your body.

Love and hugs,

Carol

Re: [ ] Re: Methotrexate Injections

me too, now if i could only get my back to cooperate!! i have spent over

$100

at the chiro in 2 days. woke up again this morning and my back is still

wierd. i have a heat pack on it today and hoping to stay away from the

prednisone!! the pain is horrible and has brought me to tears at least 5

times in the past 2 days. makes it very hard to walk or bend. waaah!!!!

kathy

in il

[Guest guest]

Oh, I'm sure I'll be able to mention something one of these days that

will pike your interest. I almost cut my thumb off a couple of year's

ago and could tell you the morbid details. Grabbed a windshield wiper

in a major snowstorm and cut through nerve, tendon and nicked an

artery.

Thanks for your well wishes .

Hugs,

Alan

> Darn it! I love a good horror story. Actually, what you've described

> sounds pretty awful. I am so sorry, Al.

>

> With any luck, the MTX will work this time.

>

> If it doesn't, don't worry. Other things are coming.

>

>

>

>

> [ ] Re: Methotrexate Injections

>

>

> > Well, , they really weren't that gory to satisfy your morbid

> > curiosity...

> >

> > The main reason she took me off Humira was because I kept getting

bad

> > headaches, massive nausea, and my fatigue would come back every 5-

6

> > days. No explosive bowels, profuse bleeding, or spontaneous

> > combustion, sorry..LOL!

> >

> > Thanks for your good wishes.

> >

> > Hugs,

> >

> > Alan

[Guest guest]

I am so sorry Kathy. I hope you are doing better.

Love and hugs,

Alan

> me too, now if i could only get my back to cooperate!! i have spent

over $100

> at the chiro in 2 days. woke up again this morning and my back is

still

> wierd. i have a heat pack on it today and hoping to stay away from

the

> prednisone!! the pain is horrible and has brought me to tears at

least 5

> times in the past 2 days. makes it very hard to walk or bend.

waaah!!!! kathy

> in il

[Guest guest]

I've been trying to come down on prednisone for the last month - I went from 2 down to 1mg. Just this past week I started getting a really bad flare in my hand. I went back up to 2 mg and talked to my doctor. Right now I'm on 15 mg metho. She's thinking that instead of increasing the prednisone back up, that she might switch me to metho injections because it is more effective in that form.

Does anyone have this experience of going from pills to injections? I'd love to hear about it.

gloria

[Guest guest]

Gloria,

MTX injections are far easier than pills. I have been on injections now for about six months. I started on pills but got all the side effects in the book. I use insulin needles to injection they are very small and thin. I take my injection on the day of the week that is ,most convienent for me. You get less GI side effects with the injections. I still get vomiting and diarrhea, headache and nausea. I take more folic acid that is suppose to help..does nothing for me. I am currently on 15mg of MTX a week. I was on 17.5mg a week but it gave me mouth sores so he reduced it back to 15mg. I also take Enbrel so I take two injections of Enbrel a week plus one to two shots of MTX a week.

I got the OK to divide my MTX into two injections if I want as long as I take both within 24 hrs.

Injectable MTX is cheap also. It runs around $22 for a 3 month supply including the insulin needles. Of course your cost may vary due to dose. I pay basicly $6 and some change for 2ml bottle of MTX and $2.10 for a package of 10 insulin syringes.

I hope that helps.

Toni

Message: 7

Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 02:46:48 EST

From: gloriarex@...

Subject: Re: Methotrexate injections

I've been trying to come down on prednisone for the last month - I went from

2 down to 1mg. Just this past week I started getting a really bad flare in my

hand. I went back up to 2 mg and talked to my doctor. Right now I'm on 15 mg

metho. She's thinking that instead of increasing the prednisone back up, that

she might switch me to metho injections because it is more effective in that

form.

Does anyone have this experience of going from pills to injections? I'd love

to hear about it.

gloria

[Guest guest]

Gloria,

I went from the pills to the injections about 3 years ago (after

being on Enbrel for awhile and getting used to giving myself shots).

I'm at 20 mg per week, and it's made an amazing difference in the

side effects - particularly nausea. I do them Saturday night so that

I sleep off a lot of the brain fog, and do feel a little quesy at

times on Sunday, but Tums seems to keep it in check. My main 'side

effect' from the injections has been that I sometimes give myself

bruises from the injection. Since I do them in the abdomen, it made

one doctor ask if we needed to talk about domestic

violence........then she laughed when I explained the situation.

I don't think you'll be sorry if you make the switch. Best of luck

in getting things under control.

Beth

> I've been trying to come down on prednisone for the last month - I

went from

> 2 down to 1mg. Just this past week I started getting a really bad

flare in my

> hand. I went back up to 2 mg and talked to my doctor. Right now I'm

on 15 mg

> metho. She's thinking that instead of increasing the prednisone

back up, that

> she might switch me to metho injections because it is more

effective in that

> form.

>

> Does anyone have this experience of going from pills to injections?

I'd love

> to hear about it.

>

> gloria

[Guest guest]

Thanks to all for your replies about the metho injections. I guess my real question doesn't concern side-effects as much as it concerns it's effectiveness. Do you find that injecting metho is more effective in terms of controlling your symptoms than taking it in pill form?

gloria