Fasting

[Guest guest]

16 days with no nourishment sounds like a long time. Do they give you

vitamins? How long will this fast last?

I'm glad to hear that your pain is decreased and hope it continues when

you break the fast.

a

On Jul 29, 2005, at 8:15 PM, mamajudies@... wrote:

> Hi all today is my 16th. day of fasting. today is the first day that I

> have

> been almost pain free in 8 months theres  soreness in my hands and

> wrist but

> very livable. today is the first day that I have been able to dress

> myself since

> i have been here. can not believe there is no pain. as of today i

> have lost 

> 20 lbs. went outside today layed in the sun it was wonderful. We just

> do not

> realize what we have until we lose it. IM sure the pain will return

> the Dr.

> said that the detox works kind of like peeling an onion it works in

> layers it

> will attract an area then let the body rest then come back for a

> deeper clean.

> well that's it for today P.S. all prayers are welcome

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

16 days with no nourishment sounds like a long time. Do they give you

vitamins? How long will this fast last?

I'm glad to hear that your pain is decreased and hope it continues when

you break the fast.

a

On Jul 29, 2005, at 8:15 PM, mamajudies@... wrote:

> Hi all today is my 16th. day of fasting. today is the first day that I

> have

> been almost pain free in 8 months theres  soreness in my hands and

> wrist but

> very livable. today is the first day that I have been able to dress

> myself since

> i have been here. can not believe there is no pain. as of today i

> have lost 

> 20 lbs. went outside today layed in the sun it was wonderful. We just

> do not

> realize what we have until we lose it. IM sure the pain will return

> the Dr.

> said that the detox works kind of like peeling an onion it works in

> layers it

> will attract an area then let the body rest then come back for a

> deeper clean.

> well that's it for today P.S. all prayers are welcome

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Melina IM doing a water fast this is my 19th. day you take nothing in but d

[Guest guest]

Melina IM doing a water fast this is my 19th. day you take nothing in but d

[Guest guest]

On 8/4/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> Well, it's been four full days, moving into the fifth, and I haven't

> had a bowel movement since I started. Is that unusual? Normal?

It is normal.

> Should I be taking laxative herbs?

Yes. The stuff I sent you privately is designed to absorb toxins and

strengthen and move the bowels. I should have included an explanation

next to each item.

Admittedly there is a school of thought that you don't do anything,

that your bowels will move when ready. I think that is good on a

longer fast, but on a fast like yours you need to have your organs of

elimination working regularly.

> I was hoping to see my abs flatten out, but no luck there yet.

> Although I bet I have quite a bit of gas and junk in there. If I do

> the yoga move I described to JC a few weeks ago where I twist at the

> waist while laying down, I get some gas movement, and I also tried

> massaging my abdomen, which induces quite a bit of action, even higher

> up where I assume is my stomach. I wonder if (apparent) gas in the

> stomach indicates an h. pylori infection?

I don't know.

> On day one, I had a quart of coconut water, fermented, day two about a

> pint plus maybe a cup, day three I had lots, five or six coconuts

> worth, and day four I had only two coconuts worth, which is about

> three cups. I've probably drank at *least* a gallon of water a day,

> as I've been having enormous thirst. I can drink a pint of water, for

> example, and then go outside and have to come back in within 15 or 20

> minutes to drink some more.

Your body probably doesn't know what to do with itself. What is this

boy doing?? Give us water, we best take advantage of this situation,

LOL!

> My tongue continues to be white, and today I got a particularly bad

> taste in my mouth, later in the day, which I think may have been the

> distance from my morning coconut water... maybe relying more heavily

> on water is a greater detox.

No maybe about it - it most certainly is a greater detox.

> I haven't had any significant hunger, oddly,

Nothing odd about that.

> and sometimes feel full,

> and the weakness seems to be improving, even without coffee and having

> dumped the ginseng, although I'm definitely not up to normal par.

> Science research is more difficult.

I don't know if you will go long enough to experience the extreme

mental acuity and creativity that comes with a longer fast, but

nonetheless when you break the fast you should notice some gains

mentally.

> Then after the second week, I will continue this meal process only I

> will add a cup of bone broth, probably beef bones or ox tails. Within

> that week, after a few days, I will probably add rare-cooked steak,

> ghee, and raw sauerkraut. Ghee, since it's gut-healing, and rare

> steak is probably the best meat to tolerate, and raw sauerkraut is

> probably the easiest vegetable to tolerate. I'm thinking that meats

> should be added in before vegetables, because of the fiber in the

> veggies.

Only add *one* food a day. I would start with sauerkraut, then the

next day add steak, then the next day add ghee. You don't need much

food and you won't be very hungry unless the bone broth stimulates

things. You can pretty much break a fast with anything but there are

some things to be aware of. More tomorrow.

[Guest guest]

Hi well today is day 23 of fasting I have been doing really good had a small

flare up yesterday but its gone today the only place is my hands they still

have some stiffness in them. I have had some questions about what IM doing and

will try to answer them a you ask about taking vitamins no my only intake

is pure distilled water the body will draw from its reserve the only time you

have to worry about not having enough reserve is if you are really under weight

which is not the case with me they also do urine testing and blood work ever

5 days to make sure everything is O.K. got my blood work back yesterday my sed

rate was 30 that puts me in the normal range that's a first when I first got

here it was 59 my cholesterol has came down from 227 to 149 I feel great.

some one else ask about the diet its plant based plus for us the night shade

veg.are not to be eaten although the dr. said after being on this way of eating

for a month we can start reintroducing one thing at a time back into our diet

every 3 days if we can not tell a difference then we can add that back into our

diet there are a couple of cook books out they recomend.if interested let me

know I know this drastic change in my diet will be a big change but if it

leaves me pain free it will well be worth it did I mention I have not been on

any

medication since I have been here praise God. I think I have answered all

questions if not let me know I will be glad to do so.

[Guest guest]

Hi well today is day 23 of fasting I have been doing really good had a small

flare up yesterday but its gone today the only place is my hands they still

have some stiffness in them. I have had some questions about what IM doing and

will try to answer them a you ask about taking vitamins no my only intake

is pure distilled water the body will draw from its reserve the only time you

have to worry about not having enough reserve is if you are really under weight

which is not the case with me they also do urine testing and blood work ever

5 days to make sure everything is O.K. got my blood work back yesterday my sed

rate was 30 that puts me in the normal range that's a first when I first got

here it was 59 my cholesterol has came down from 227 to 149 I feel great.

some one else ask about the diet its plant based plus for us the night shade

veg.are not to be eaten although the dr. said after being on this way of eating

for a month we can start reintroducing one thing at a time back into our diet

every 3 days if we can not tell a difference then we can add that back into our

diet there are a couple of cook books out they recomend.if interested let me

know I know this drastic change in my diet will be a big change but if it

leaves me pain free it will well be worth it did I mention I have not been on

any

medication since I have been here praise God. I think I have answered all

questions if not let me know I will be glad to do so.

[Guest guest]

On 8/5/05, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> > Should I be taking laxative herbs?

> Yes. The stuff I sent you privately is designed to absorb toxins and

> strengthen and move the bowels. I should have included an explanation

> next to each item.

I should have ordered it then, but I think I forgot at first, and

decided it was too late anyway. Well, I did just order two of them,

but I didn't do rush deliver for price reasons. His website is

extremely non-user-friendly. Excessive use of graphics on every page,

long loading time.

If I had to pick up something retail to hold me over, is there

anything you'd recommend?

> Admittedly there is a school of thought that you don't do anything,

> that your bowels will move when ready. I think that is good on a

> longer fast, but on a fast like yours you need to have your organs of

> elimination working regularly.

I'm somewhat inclined to just fast until I'm " done. " I'm don't want

to go back to eating and find that its such a mixed bag. I want to

get to the point where at least meat and simple vegetables are

unambiguously benefiting me.

> I don't know if you will go long enough to experience the extreme

> mental acuity and creativity that comes with a longer fast, but

> nonetheless when you break the fast you should notice some gains

> mentally.

Interesting. Well I do seem to be experiencing a slow return of

mental acuity. That would certainly be interesting if it eventually

surpassed by typical acuity!

> Only add *one* food a day. I would start with sauerkraut, then the

> next day add steak, then the next day add ghee. You don't need much

> food and you won't be very hungry unless the bone broth stimulates

> things. You can pretty much break a fast with anything but there are

> some things to be aware of. More tomorrow.

Ok, thanks.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Oh, I should also mention that I seem to have a declining desire for

coconut water and an increasing desire to water fast.

I also have some ginger-lemon juice. I took a shot of it yesterday

and, whoo! That stuff is strong! But I think I will continue with

that as it seems to be soothing on the gut.

I'm hoping my kefir will come in today, so I can kefir coconut water

and keep it preserved longer, as well as benefit from the sugar

reduction. The coconut water is just too sweet.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> [chris]Well, it's been four full days, moving into the fifth, and I

haven't had a

> bowel movement since I started. Is that unusual? Normal? Should I be taking

> laxative herbs?

[robin]Constipation is quite natural and the herbs may help. I'm in

the colon hydrotherapy camp on this. That's what I've used on fasts. I

still use them from time to time and can do them all by myself. (I've

never understood why you need two people..) If you can afford to fork

out 70 bucks or so, it's worth it to get a professional colon

hydrotherapy..

When your body is in the detox mod (which it sounds like yours is)

it's much easier to eliminate the crud that has built up and lined the

walls of the guts. Some people call it mucoid plaque. It also

stimulates gut motilty -- gets those contractions going again..

If I were doing a fast I would take an enema every day. If you do it,

try to get a 4 quart bag and just use non-chlorinated water..

http://www.surgicalshop.com/hospital_medical_supplies/enema_products.html

I'd also do dry brushing before bathing in sea salt.

> [chris]By the way, when I said I lost 5 pounds in the first day, when I

weighed >myself on the third day, I'd actually only lost 2 or 3 pounds total.

Not sure how I >could have *gained* weight there, but that seemed to be the

case. I've lost some >more now, but haven't been paying too much attention to

it. I still look pretty >muscular, so I'm not really worried about it.

> I was hoping to see my abs flatten out, but no luck there yet.

> Although I bet I have quite a bit of gas and junk in there. If I do

> the yoga move I described to JC a few weeks ago where I twist at the

> waist while laying down, I get some gas movement, and I also tried

> massaging my abdomen, which induces quite a bit of action, even higher up

>where I assume is my stomach. I wonder if (apparent) gas in the stomach

i>ndicates an h. pylori infection?

[robin]I'm glad you're not worried about muscle loss. I think that is

so over-rated. I've been sick in bed for almost 2 years and my muscles

are coming back like you wouldn't believed. More carved too..

Yes, I think you have gas and junk in there and those yoga moves are

great. So is taking long meditative walks -- good for the head too.

But if you have the problems with gas up high in the small intestine I

think you might need help to eliminate that. That's a different sort

of gas in my experience and doesn't seem to come out the normal way.

Enemas saved me as I would empty almost 3 qts at a time in there and

when I'd discharge all the gunk, it wasn't until the very end that all

this air would come out. It was waay up there. Talk about relief.. I

figure that the potential loss of good-bacteria is out-weighed by

getting rid of the gas that is causing inflammation.

If you had an h. pylori bacteria problem in your stomach you would

feel a knawing pain right under your solar plexus, especially when you

were lying down. I had an h. pylori caused ulcer and can tell you more

if you're very concerned.

Are you burping at all? I think that might be more indicative of gas

in the stomach.. Does it sort of hurt under your ribs near your solar

plexus? Mine always did when I was the sickest and I'm thinking maybe

that was a congested liver. I read somewhere that you should be able

to get your fingers under your rib-cage in that area..

> [chris] On day one, I had a quart of coconut water, fermented, day two about a

>pint plus maybe a cup, day three I had lots, five or six coconuts orth, and day

four >I had only two coconuts worth, which is about three cups. I've probably

drank at >*least* a gallon of water a day, as I've been having enormous thirst.

I can drink a >pint of water, for example, and then go outside and have to come

back in within >15 or 20 minutes to drink some more.

[robin] That sounds normal to me. Keep flushing things out..

> [chris]My tongue continues to be white, and today I got a particularly bad

taste >in my mouth, later in the day, which I think may have been the distance

from my >morning coconut water... maybe relying more heavily on water is a

greater detox.

[robin] Sounds like you're really in it.. Good for you. There sure is

a lot of time in the day when you don't eat isn't there? :-) I think

that water is the best thing for the fast anyway. And the taste in

your mouth should pass.

The white tongue reminds me that you had all those fungal problems;

part of what may be involved for you is a candida fungal detox. You

might want to remember to focus on that aspect when you come out of

your fast -- you know, keep the sugars/starches way down to help

starve that fungus back a bit.

Which reminds me -- since science abhors a vacumn, you may want to

seriously consider probiotics at some point very soon here. Especially

when you start eating again.

I've recently learned that you have to take a LOT of probiotics to get

the desired health benefits. (I argued with a woman witha Ph.D. in

animal nutrition over on Microbial Nutrition who said that probiotics

in large concentrations were needed in addition to the fermented food

we were eating. I started conversing with her off-line and she mailed

me a quart of her probiotic formualtion for animals. I've been taking

about 4 tablespoons a day in water and since I started 3 weeks ago I

have just felt fabulous -- I have to attribute my great new state to

that as I changed nothing else. Her name is Lark Burnham and she's at

lark@.... Probiotics are so expensive and so you we never

can take enough to make a difference. A lot of the freeze-dried ones

have dead organisms but Lark's MSE stuff is very fresh and alive and

19 bucks for a quart which lasts awhile even when you're drinking it

throughout the day. It's called the MSE concentrate and is for pets..)

> [chris] I haven't had any significant hunger, oddly, and sometimes feel full,

and >the weakness seems to be improving, even without coffee and having dumped

the >ginseng, although I'm definitely not up to normal par. Science research is

more >difficult.

> I'm thinking that I will go a day or two more with just water and some coconut

>water, and then I will add in some VCO and a free amino acid supplement. My

>thought is that for the second week I will have two " meals " of two Tbsp VCO, a

>serving of the amino acid supplement, and a glass of coconut water-- hopefully

>kefired, if I get my kefir packets in.

[robin] You need kefir water grains! I'll send you some but somebody

back east has some to mail so they'll last better...

> [chris] Then after the second week, I will continue this meal process only I

will >add a cup of bone broth, probably beef bones or ox tails. Within that

week, after >a few days, I will probably add rare-cooked steak, ghee, and raw

sauerkraut. >Ghee, since it's gut-healing, and rare steak is probably the best

meat to tolerate, >and raw sauerkraut is probably the easiest vegetable to

tolerate. I'm thinking that >meats should be added in before vegetables,

because of the fiber in the veggies.

[robin] Rather than the steak, have you considered using liver as

close to raw as you can handle? The two things I've always been able

to handle when times were the toughest were liver and bone/root

potassium broth. I'd add some miso to the broth for the salt and

enzymes... really grounding!

~Robin Ann

[Guest guest]

On 8/5/05, Robin Ann <grainwreck@...> wrote:

> [robin]Constipation is quite natural and the herbs may help. I'm in

> the colon hydrotherapy camp on this. That's what I've used on fasts. I

> still use them from time to time and can do them all by myself. (I've

> never understood why you need two people..) If you can afford to fork

> out 70 bucks or so, it's worth it to get a professional colon

> hydrotherapy..

No, I'm not really ready to fork over that kind of money unless I am

really convinced it's an absolute necessity. I'm in a position where

I need to be rather conservative with spending right now.

> When your body is in the detox mod (which it sounds like yours is)

> it's much easier to eliminate the crud that has built up and lined the

> walls of the guts. Some people call it mucoid plaque. It also

> stimulates gut motilty -- gets those contractions going again..

> If I were doing a fast I would take an enema every day. If you do it,

> try to get a 4 quart bag and just use non-chlorinated water..

> http://www.surgicalshop.com/hospital_medical_supplies/enema_products.html

Thanks, I'll check out the link. I'm not sure I like this idea, but

if it will be beneficial...

> I'd also do dry brushing before bathing in sea salt.

Dry brushing?

> If you had an h. pylori bacteria problem in your stomach you would

> feel a knawing pain right under your solar plexus, especially when you

> were lying down. I had an h. pylori caused ulcer and can tell you more

> if you're very concerned.

Hmm, well I have no pain at all. A couple years ago I used to feel

this pain in my lower left abdomen that I thought might have been

appendicitis or something but seemed to be gas-related. I found that

eating a lot of fermented foods helped it, and in the more immediate,

putting pressure or doing yoga would help relieve it. Nowadays I have

no such gas pain. Although last night when I was massaging my abdomen

to try to stimulate gas movement, I did have a little bit of moderate

pain when the gas sort of moved into a particular position.

> Are you burping at all? I think that might be more indicative of gas

> in the stomach.. Does it sort of hurt under your ribs near your solar

> plexus? Mine always did when I was the sickest and I'm thinking maybe

> that was a congested liver. I read somewhere that you should be able

> to get your fingers under your rib-cage in that area..

I'm not burping, so I guess that would indicate I *don't* have gas in

my stomach. I must be misinterpreting the upper intestines as

stomach.

> [robin] Sounds like you're really in it.. Good for you. There sure is

> a lot of time in the day when you don't eat isn't there? :-) I think

> that water is the best thing for the fast anyway. And the taste in

> your mouth should pass.

Not really, because I sleep more. Also, devoting time specifically to

eating would be productivity suicide for me, so I've always eaten

while I was doing something else.

> The white tongue reminds me that you had all those fungal problems;

> part of what may be involved for you is a candida fungal detox.

That would seem to be supported by my toe fungus too. I used to treat

this topically with GOL's tooth and gum solution, but I found that it

rapidly got better when I did my VCO fast, without treating it

topically. It receded about 70 or 80% during those 7 days, and then

stayed stagnant. It also appears to be finishing going away now,

although I will have to wait and see.

This started when I was at the concrete job, and I think it may have

been partly caused by wearing work boots all day, which probably

messed up the form of my toe nails. However, it appears to be a

reflection of a systemic fungal problem.

You

> might want to remember to focus on that aspect when you come out of

> your fast -- you know, keep the sugars/starches way down to help

> starve that fungus back a bit.

Oh, I intend to.

> Which reminds me -- since science abhors a vacumn, you may want to

> seriously consider probiotics at some point very soon here. Especially

> when you start eating again.

I'm using Primal Defense right now, which has always been the most

effective probiotic for me.

> [robin] Rather than the steak, have you considered using liver as

> close to raw as you can handle? The two things I've always been able

> to handle when times were the toughest were liver and bone/root

> potassium broth. I'd add some miso to the broth for the salt and

> enzymes... really grounding!

I used to eat raw liver all the time. I think started that on

this list, but I hopped on in the beginning. However, I think that my

digestion of raw liver was poorer than average for meat. Liver is

heavier, so I'm wondering if that should wait a bit.

Also, I was thinking that vitamin A might be stress on the liver to

store and assimilate so should be the first thing high-dose coming out

of a fast.

Chris

[Guest guest]

On 8/5/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> On 8/5/05, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

>

> > > Should I be taking laxative herbs?

>

> > Yes. The stuff I sent you privately is designed to absorb toxins and

> > strengthen and move the bowels. I should have included an explanation

> > next to each item.

>

> I should have ordered it then, but I think I forgot at first, and

> decided it was too late anyway. Well, I did just order two of them,

> but I didn't do rush deliver for price reasons. His website is

> extremely non-user-friendly. Excessive use of graphics on every page,

> long loading time.

>

> If I had to pick up something retail to hold me over, is there

> anything you'd recommend?

Nope. In these instances I would recommend a quart of apple juice and

quart of water from soaked prunes. Does the job QUITE nicely,

thankyouverymuch. But as you are trying to keep the sugar down

probably not a good idea. But I have been told via the backchannels

that you are being taken care of on this point, so enuff said.

Colonics are good, as are high enemas, and they are especially good

when coupled with the herbs I recommended. You can do some nice

implants with a high enema plus you get what is known as a " ceacal or

cecum flush " which is a great way to cleanse out your GI tract. If you

have someone in your area who does inexpensive colon therapy it might

be worth checking them out.

> > Admittedly there is a school of thought that you don't do anything,

> > that your bowels will move when ready. I think that is good on a

> > longer fast, but on a fast like yours you need to have your organs of

> > elimination working regularly.

>

> I'm somewhat inclined to just fast until I'm " done. " I'm don't want

> to go back to eating and find that its such a mixed bag. I want to

> get to the point where at least meat and simple vegetables are

> unambiguously benefiting me.

That is a very good inclination.

> > Only add *one* food a day. I would start with sauerkraut, then the

> > next day add steak, then the next day add ghee. You don't need much

> > food and you won't be very hungry unless the bone broth stimulates

> > things. You can pretty much break a fast with anything but there are

> > some things to be aware of. More tomorrow.

>

> Ok, thanks.

When breaking the fast you continue with your normal liquid

consumption only adding whatever it is you are going to eat to break

the fast. You should not be hungry and so you should eat a very small

amount of whatever it is AND you should have a bowel movement that

day.

The next day same regarding the liquids and then add another food

item, eating it very slowly and not a lot, and then make sure you have

a bowel movement. The third day another food item following the same

mode (liquids - eat slowly, not a big amount) and then a bowel

movement.

On the fourth day you should be ready to eat your regular meals given

the length of your fast and I'm probably being conservative. I would

continue with the herbs I suggested until everything normalizes, which

shouldn't take very long (if any). You might want to add Heidi's kefir

beer to your regular menu as well.

[Guest guest]

On 8/5/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> Oh, I should also mention that I seem to have a declining desire for

> coconut water and an increasing desire to water fast.

Then follow your desire.

> I also have some ginger-lemon juice. I took a shot of it yesterday

> and, whoo! That stuff is strong! But I think I will continue with

> that as it seems to be soothing on the gut.

Are you taking it straight or mixed with water?

> I'm hoping my kefir will come in today, so I can kefir coconut water

> and keep it preserved longer, as well as benefit from the sugar

> reduction. The coconut water is just too sweet.

Sounds good.

[Guest guest]

> >[robin] I'd also do dry brushing before bathing in sea salt.

>

> [chris] Dry brushing?

Hi

" Dry brushing is a very important modality that should be included in

everyone's daily regimen and especially those with health concerns.

It is a cleansing and detoxifying procedure using a natural fiber

bristled brush.

Our skin is known as the third lung, which needs to breathe and be

allowed oxygenation. Removing the dead skin cells allows the body to

emit toxic waste.

Dry brushing also stimulates electrical nerve impulses and also aids

the flow of lymph fluid, which is extremely important, as it is a

vital part of the eliminating, and disposal system, which rids debris

from the body. One of the lymph functions is to carry toxins to the

bloodstream, cycling to the liver and kidneys where it can then be

excreted from the body.

Dry brushing will also break down cellulite deposits and improves

blood circulation, which in turn improves oxygenation of the tissues,

organs and cells.

When utilizing dry brush massage always use several circular strokes

at each area and start at the extremities working towards the heart

since near the upper chest area on both sides of the sternum is where

the lymph system drains into the circulatory system.

Use dry brushing on a daily basis before showering or bathing. The

brush and skin must always be dry. Do not brush before bedtime, as

this may be stimulating to the system and hinder sleep. Wash your

brush gently with mild soap at least once every two weeks. "

http://discoveringwellness.hdmenterprises.com/drybrush.htm

It's a *very* light brushy thing you do all over. I start with

my feet, just lightly using up-sweeping strokes toward my armpits and

then I do the same from tips of fingers to armpits. The brush is

always dry. The lymph system is just below the skin and so it's more

of a light swishing than a massaging motion..

~Robin

[Guest guest]

> [michael] Nope. In these instances I would recommend a quart of apple juice

and

> quart of water from soaked prunes. Does the job QUITE nicely,

> thankyouverymuch. But as you are trying to keep the sugar down

> probably not a good idea.

, Something that also works really well along those same lines

is fermented watermelon juice. (I just cut a seedless watermelon in

half and dice the meat up inside the cavity which becomes the bowl.

Then I add my kefir grains and in a couple days have a lot of juice

and floating pieces of watermelon. I then blend it all to make a

juice. Cheap and very effective.)

If I were to do a fast now I would seriously consider starting out and

ending with fermented fresh watermelon juice. Wow. ~Robin

[Guest guest]

On 8/5/05, Robin Ann <grainwreck@...> wrote:

> [robin]Constipation is quite natural and the herbs may help. I'm in

> the colon hydrotherapy camp on this. That's what I've used on fasts. I

> still use them from time to time and can do them all by myself. (I've

> never understood why you need two people..) If you can afford to fork

> out 70 bucks or so, it's worth it to get a professional colon

> hydrotherapy.

Well that is the *one* good thing about the Bastyr University folks

around here, they do colonics on the cheap ($25), or at least used to

do them inexpensively.

> When your body is in the detox mod (which it sounds like yours is)

> it's much easier to eliminate the crud that has built up and lined the

> walls of the guts. Some people call it mucoid plaque. It also

> stimulates gut motilty -- gets those contractions going again..

> If I were doing a fast I would take an enema every day. If you do it,

> try to get a 4 quart bag and just use non-chlorinated water..

> http://www.surgicalshop.com/hospital_medical_supplies/enema_products.html

Hmmm..not sure I would do an enema (high) every day, at least not

given the herbal formulas I recommended to but I do think once

a week is a very good idea, but that is just my experience.

A 4 quart bag is great especially the ones that have a hook on them

(so you can hang them) and an opening at the top. In my experience the

reason you have two people is that it takes some patience and a little

guidance to get 4 quarts of water inside, and somewhat difficult given

the position the person is in when doing it.

But if you can do it on your own that is great!

> I'd also do dry brushing before bathing in sea salt.

Whoa, haven't heard that recommendation in awhile.

> But if you have the problems with gas up high in the small intestine I

> think you might need help to eliminate that. That's a different sort

> of gas in my experience and doesn't seem to come out the normal way.

> Enemas saved me as I would empty almost 3 qts at a time in there and

> when I'd discharge all the gunk, it wasn't until the very end that all

> this air would come out. It was waay up there. Talk about relief.. I

> figure that the potential loss of good-bacteria is out-weighed by

> getting rid of the gas that is causing inflammation.

I agree but I don't necessarily think this will be an issue for Chris

unless he does this everyday.

> I've recently learned that you have to take a LOT of probiotics to get

> the desired health benefits. (I argued with a woman witha Ph.D. in

> animal nutrition over on Microbial Nutrition who said that probiotics

> in large concentrations were needed in addition to the fermented food

> we were eating.

I think the glutenator, who was originally the fermenator, might have

a different take on this, although maybe I misread her. But I do seem

to recall her saying that some foods have a LOT more effective

probiotics than ANYprobiotic supplement, like kefir beer. But like I

said, my recall may be faulty here.

[Guest guest]

On 8/5/05, Robin Ann <grainwreck@...> wrote:

> > [michael] Nope. In these instances I would recommend a quart of apple juice

and

> > quart of water from soaked prunes. Does the job QUITE nicely,

> > thankyouverymuch. But as you are trying to keep the sugar down

> > probably not a good idea.

>

> , Something that also works really well along those same lines

> is fermented watermelon juice. (I just cut a seedless watermelon in

> half and dice the meat up inside the cavity which becomes the bowl.

> Then I add my kefir grains and in a couple days have a lot of juice

> and floating pieces of watermelon. I then blend it all to make a

> juice. Cheap and very effective.)

>

> If I were to do a fast now I would seriously consider starting out and

> ending with fermented fresh watermelon juice. Wow. ~Robin

Except...except...except...except...except...I hope they wouldn't be

seedless, LOL!

(any guy reading this who has urinary tract problems and tries the

above BEWARE, LOL!. That is a good " beware " by the way but just a

warning that you may think you are urinating fire the first time or

two.)

[Guest guest]

> [michael] Hmmm..not sure I would do an enema (high) every day, at

> least not given the herbal formulas I recommended to but

> I do think once a week is a very good idea, but that is just my

> experience.

[robin] yes, once a day does sound extreme. ly, when I did

longish fasts (it was for spiritual/focus reasons) I didn't even

know about enemas and was fine (i guess) without them. But they

helped me so much when I was absolutely despartae with a bacterial

infection that I became comfortable with the practice and would use

them again if I were to fast. Some fasting retreats say to do a

light enema each day but I would think it should be on a case by

case basis. You get to *know* when it would be appropraite. And yes,

the 4 qt. idea is too much once a day! I always " implant " with good

probiotics afterward too...

> [michael]But if you can do it on your own that is great!

[robin]For one person you need to have a long shower flower (or be

VERY short :-) and you hang the big heavy thing bag of water from

the shower handle. You get comfortable, grab a book and relax as

best you can and let the colon soak up the hydration. Take your

time... that's the key. Then when you've taken all you can, you walk

to the toilet. If there's an accident, the shower drain is a waste

line just like the toilet and so there's no harm done. BTW, it's

great for learning to control the kegels and whatever the butt

muscles are called inside. Very good for sexual health and becoming

comfortable with *every* part of your body...

> > I'd also do dry brushing before bathing in sea salt.

>

> Whoa, haven't heard that recommendation in awhile.

>

> > But if you have the problems with gas up high in the small

> > intestine I think you might need help to eliminate that.

> > That's a different sort

> > of gas in my experience and doesn't seem to come out the normal

> > way.

> > Enemas saved me as I would empty almost 3 qts at a time in there

> > and when I'd discharge all the gunk, it wasn't until the very

> > end that all

> > this air would come out. It was waay up there. Talk about

> > relief.. I

> > figure that the potential loss of good-bacteria is out-weighed by

> > getting rid of the gas that is causing inflammation.

>

> I agree but I don't necessarily think this will be an issue for

> unless he does this everyday.

Well, even every couple days it might help a bit. I think he's

probably got soem gas up there that's been hanging around awhile. No

escape route. That's why at least one colon hydrotherapy session

might be very helpful. I doubt with the fasting that he's producing

much gas -- I'd imagine this is leftoover but obviously don't know.

Talking about :natural " something just occured to me: when I had to

have a colonoscopy for insurance reasons the gastroenterologist told

me that I had one of the crooked colons he's ever seen. I wonder, in

all out discussions about genetics and nutrition and things like

physical deformities (for lack of a better word,) if a genetic ultra

curvy colon might be another one of those " defects " we focus on

here.

mentioned growing up on an apple juice diet and I grew up on a

Cranation Instant Lowfat Milk diet with absolutley no real food in

site. Boxed amcaroni and cheese (for a celiac!) was as close to what

got to " home-cooking " .

Anyay, I'd like to suggest that a too-curved colon might be at the

root of many of our digestive problems here. We always assume that

proper nutrition will cure what ails us but maybe sometimes what's

also needed are supplementary measures such as colon cleansing

because our colons just aren't constructed very well to begin with.

I credit an awful lot of my recovery (which is toltally happening by

the way!!) to the proper use of colon hydrotherapy and getting my

guts into the best possible shape. Not to mention the 3+ inches I

lost from my waist when every other measurement is back to the same..

> [michael] I think the glutenator, who was originally the

> fermenator, might have

> a different take on this, although maybe I misread her. But I do

> seem

> to recall her saying that some foods have a LOT more effective

> probiotics than ANYprobiotic supplement, like kefir beer. But like

>I

> said, my recall may be faulty here.

{robin] that's why I was arguing with this person; no one else was

around and, granted, I am not the scientist in the crowd but I gave

it a shot. Go to Microbial Nutrition and look up Lark her id is

londislandsunshine... see her posts and tell me what you think.

Maybe now that Heidi's back, she'll weigh in.

Long story short (and this is VERY long I apologize) I ended up

trying out the pet probiotics and, wow, night and day. I really feel

great. My digestion is better than it's been in 2 years so I'm going

to stay with them and keep taking enzymes and HCl and work on

getting my adrenals back up to snuff...

~Robin Ann

Ps. i;m not checking this gotta run hope there aren't too many

typos... :-)

[Guest guest]

,

I took the ginger/lemon juice straight and chased it with water.

There is much more lemon juice than ginger, but the ginger juice is

definitely overpowering the taste.

Why?

Chris

[Guest guest]

> ,

>

> I took the ginger/lemon juice straight and chased it with water.

> There is much more lemon juice than ginger, but the ginger juice is

> definitely overpowering the taste.

>

> Why?

>

>

Why do you do these crazy things?

I vote we fly you out to Seattle to fast under supervision...

B.

[Guest guest]

On 8/5/05, downwardog7 <illneverbecool@...> wrote:

> > I took the ginger/lemon juice straight and chased it with water.

> > There is much more lemon juice than ginger, but the ginger juice is

> > definitely overpowering the taste.

> Why do you do these crazy things?

> I vote we fly you out to Seattle to fast under supervision...

What do you mean? suggested adding some ginger juice to the

coconut water, but I figured, why ruin the taste of a whole pint

glass? That's like adding CLO to orange juice. If you really can't

stand the taste, take it straight and chase it with OJ instead of

ruining the whole glass of OJ.

This is like the smoking thread all over again. Why is my shot of

ginger-lemon juice drawing such pity? I didn't mind it! :-)

Chris

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>This is like the smoking thread all over again. Why is my shot of

>ginger-lemon juice drawing such pity? I didn't mind it! :-)

Heck if I know. I'm not sure I see the point of all that lemon juice, but

ginger juice can be an outstanding digestive aid.

-

[Guest guest]

Hi

>This is like the smoking thread all over again. Why is my shot of

>ginger-lemon juice drawing such pity? I didn't mind it! :-)

>

Since you bring it up, are you smoking during your fast? I wish you

well on this journey.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

This sounds really yummy. I don't have any kefir grains but I do have

some good organic plain yogurt - would that work? Also, do you stick

the watermelon half back in the fridge to ferment or do you leave it

out, if you leave it out, about how hot does your kitchen get? (I live

in the desert). Any tips welcome. You guys are convincing me to

consider making my own Kefir and yogurts - I spend $300 every other

day to buy Kefir as it is. And, where do I get kefir grains? Would

they survive relocation to sunny hot AZ? Maybe I should wait till fall

and cooler temps. Often when I get delivery (UPS, FED EX and certainly

USPS), packages all come to my door hot to the touch.

Thanks,

*S*

--- In , Robin Ann <grainwreck@g...>

wrote:

> > [michael] Nope. In these instances I would recommend a quart of

apple juice and

> > quart of water from soaked prunes. Does the job QUITE nicely,

> > thankyouverymuch. But as you are trying to keep the sugar down

> > probably not a good idea.

>

> , Something that also works really well along those same lines

> is fermented watermelon juice. (I just cut a seedless watermelon in

> half and dice the meat up inside the cavity which becomes the bowl.

> Then I add my kefir grains and in a couple days have a lot of juice

> and floating pieces of watermelon. I then blend it all to make a

> juice. Cheap and very effective.)

>

> If I were to do a fast now I would seriously consider starting out

and

> ending with fermented fresh watermelon juice. Wow. ~Robin

[Guest guest]

whoopsie - missed a decimal. Anyway, I buy a quart of kefir

(organic) every day.

*S*

> > > [michael] Nope. In these instances I would recommend a quart

of

> apple juice and

> > > quart of water from soaked prunes. Does the job QUITE nicely,

> > > thankyouverymuch. But as you are trying to keep the sugar down

> > > probably not a good idea.

> >

> > , Something that also works really well along those same

lines

> > is fermented watermelon juice. (I just cut a seedless watermelon

in

> > half and dice the meat up inside the cavity which becomes the

bowl.

> > Then I add my kefir grains and in a couple days have a lot of

juice

> > and floating pieces of watermelon. I then blend it all to make a

> > juice. Cheap and very effective.)

> >

> > If I were to do a fast now I would seriously consider starting

out

> and

> > ending with fermented fresh watermelon juice. Wow. ~Robin