Re: What is the Matter With People?

[Guest guest]

Its the law and police procedure. Sounds really bizarre, but because of police brutality complaints and all kinds of other nonsense, police have to cuff everyone they arrest. I used to think about being a police officer, but you couldn't pay me enough to do it these days, not with all that is arrayed against them.

See what's free at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

Ok. I was excited when I signed on and saw all these posts and after reading the first one or two I was going to respond with some of the things that have happened at my mother's school.

However, this has gotten far too heated, so this thread is closed.

See what's free at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/18/2007 1:48:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, TxArt@... writes:

Thanks .. I agree

Certainly. It happens on here sometimes when people have strong feelings one way or the other on something.

See what's free at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/18/2007 1:48:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, TxArt@... writes:

Thanks .. I agree

Certainly. It happens on here sometimes when people have strong feelings one way or the other on something.

See what's free at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

Nothing is wrong with them. I feel the police handled the situation

fine. The last time I saw this happening with a child on tv... It

was videoed. the girl was out of control because the mother lacked

parenting skills and encouraged such behavior.... Nothing wrong with

handcuffs if the child is kicking and scratching out of a tantrum..

If the child was scared of handcuffs because of her behavior.. then

she learned.. you cannot act like that . I suspect the mother is not

a very good mother IMHO and the mother needs some parenting classes.

>

>

> Although there is no mention of a disability, I really have to

wonder

> about a group of adults who can't deal with a child any better than

> evidenced in this recent story.

>

> http://www.wftv.com/news/11455199/detail.html?taf=orlc

> <http://www.wftv.com/news/11455199/detail.html?taf=orlc>

> Kindergarten Girl Handcuffed, Arrested At Fla. School

> POSTED: 11:44 am EDT March 30, 2007 UPDATED: 1:08 pm EDT March 30,

2007

>

> AVON PARK, Fla. -- Police arrested a 6-year-old Florida girl and

even

> handcuffed her when she acted out in class. Police officers said

Desre'e

> , a kindergarten student at Avon Elementary School in

Highlands

> County, had a violent run-in with a teacher on Thursday.

>

> " I was scared, " the little girl said.

>

> Police claim the little girl got angry and began kicking and

scratching.

> She even hit a teacher attempting to intervene in the disturbance.

>

> However, the girl's mother doesn't believe the story.

>

> " She never fell out. She is very respectful. If I tell her to do

> anything, she will do it, " Lateshia said. School officials

> said they were forced to call the local police department, who

cuffed

> the child and put her in a police cruiser. The little girl's mother

is

> angry and said her daughter is usually very respectful.

>

> " I was very upset about that and I feel like they violated my baby's

> rights, " said.

>

> The chief of police said his officers did the right thing.

>

> " When there is an outburst of violence, we have a duty to protect

and

> make that school a safe environment for the students, staff and

faculty.

> That's why, at this point, the person was arrested regardless what

the

> age, " said Chief Mercurio, Avon Park Police Department.

>

> The kindergartner was booked in the Highland County jail and was

charged

> with a felony and two misdemeanors.

> Copyright 2007 by wftv.com. All rights reserved.

>

[Guest guest]

I agree. As a mother of a grown child.. I saw parents like

that often.... looking into their homelife... Its like a little shop

of horrors , and they are in denial when their children get caught

acting out the morality taught at home. Never MY little baby, don't

you know?

>

>

> Its the law and police procedure. Sounds really bizarre, but

because of

> police brutality complaints and all kinds of other nonsense, police

have to cuff

> everyone they arrest. I used to think about being a police officer,

but you

> couldn't pay me enough to do it these days, not with all that is

arrayed

> against them.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ************************************** See what's free at

http://www.aol.com.

>

[Guest guest]

wrote: "Nothing is wrong with them. I feel the police handled the situation fine. The last time I saw this happening with a child on tv... It was videoed. the girl was out of control because the mother lacked parenting skills and encouraged such behavior.... Nothing wrong with handcuffs if the child is kicking and scratching out of a tantrum.. If the child was scared of handcuffs because of her behavior.. then she learned.. you cannot act like that . I suspect the mother is not a very good mother IMHO and the mother needs some parenting classes."

Really? Perhaps you'll change your mind when you read the POLICE REPORT and see the CHARGES that were laid against this child. Here's how SCARY DANGEROUS this little 6 year old was according to witnesses and the police. I have taken the time to type out the police report (I have a jpg of the report and transcribed it directly). The bolding and colouring are mine.

POLICE REPORT

On the above date and time I responded to the Avon Elementary School at 705 W Winthrop Street, Avon Park, 33625 for a disruptive student, Desre's . was upset and crying and wailing and would not leave the classroom to let them study causing a disruption of the normal class activities.

Ms. Elder was called to remove her from the classroom, at which she began to hit and kick Ms. Elder. She had to be carried to the front office at which time she continued to wail and cry and refused to communicate in anyway or to calm down.

When I arrived was still carrying on and would not calm down. When I approached her she crawled under the table, at which I had to crawl and get her and she began to try to pull her legs away to try to get away from me.

When I finally got her clear she began to pull and try to run away from me. I tried several times to get her to calm down and she began to wail louder. I placed her in handcuffs to keep her from hitting and she still kept trying to get away.

Upon placing her into the back of the police vehicle she kept unbuckling and trying to get out by placing her foot in the doorway to prevent it from closing.

I had to have Officer ride in the back with her to the police department. The parent was still unreachable. She was transported to the Highlands County Jail.

Hmmmmm, sounds like a normal reaction from a very scared little girl. It certainly doesn't sound like anything that warrants police involvement at all.

And what are the charges against this SCARY DANGEROUS child? Let me tell you, they certainly threw the book at her.

THE CHARGES

1. Disruption of School Function 877.13(1a) Misdemeanor 22. Battery on School Employee 784.081 Felony 33. Resisting without Violence 843-02 Misdemeanor 1

Holy moley! She was charged for Resisting without Violence because she reacted like any 6 year old scared out of her wits? Come on! And charged with Disruption of School Function because she was acting out in class like any 6 year old does from time to time? Battery on a School Employee because she wanted to be heard instead of treated like a lesser being?Did this Ms. Elder get charged with Forcible Confinement? How about Assault on a Minor?

And you know those witnesses (because every Police Report needs witnesses for charges to be laid) who gave their names so the Prosecuting Attorney has people to call on to recount the events of that day at school when the SCARY DANGEROUS 6 year old attacked? They are 28 years old, 38 years old and 44 years old. We're not talking about people who are near retirement age; we're talking adults who are in their prime for the most part ... people who could certainly take care of a 6 year old in an appropriate fashion rather than resorting to this sort of emotional and psychological abuse.

Does anyone really think that this little girl will ever be able to attend school without being terrified that someone will have her charged for reacting in a way that is age appropriate? No. She will most likely be afraid to be herself for the rest of her life because things this big that happen early in life tend to stay with the child the rest of his/her life and to shape how the child interacts with the world as a child, as a teen and as an adult.Nice work there, Avon Elementary School in Highlands County, Florida! <extreme sarcasm>

RavenCo-Administrator

[Guest guest]

wrote: " ... <snip> ... As a mother of a grown child.. I saw

parents like that often.... looking into their homelife... Its like a

little shop of horrors , and they are in denial when their children

get caught acting out the morality taught at home. Never MY little

baby, don't you know? ... <snip> ... "

Well, , as the mother of an 11-year-old child who has been

psychologically and emotionally abused by adults in the school system

and who helped push him so far over the edge that they endangered HIS

life, I have to say that there are always three sides to every

story ... the accused's side, the accuser's side and the facts.

There are parents who are teaching their children to live ethical,

moral lives but it's the unethical and immoral adults that can be

found in the school system that corrupt and harm and endanger our

children and then cry " wolf " when the child is no longer able to cope

with the abuse.

So before you look down your nose at those of us who understand that

the school environment is not always as picture perfect as you would

like it to be and who have children (and there are quite a few of us

in this situation over in the FAMILY FORUM) who are constantly being

railroaded and bullied by adults and peers at school, thank your

lucky stars that your child got through just fine.

People who judge harshly are usually people who do not have a

complete understanding of the situation at hand.

Raven

(acting as a member of SS and not as a Co-Admin)

[Guest guest]

No.. does not change my mind. Policeofficers are also peace

officers. The child was uncontrollable.. They tried to contact the

mother (no telling where she was) and they took her into safe custody

so she would not harm herself or others.. Police officers are nice

people. They are NOT Darth Vador... The child's welfare was also a

concern. Why would anyone be afraid of their child being in a police

car or with the police? If my child were acting that way at 6, and

they could not find me... I would go to the police station and find

out what happened. No big thing.. If my child was upset because she

got into trouble for her actions... then she learned... especially

after we had a long talk about it.

That was NOT repeat NOT a normal reaction from a very scared little

girl. That was a reaction from an out of control child who grew up in

a home thinking this is how to behave. I think the need to have

social services to check into the child's homelife.

" Nothing is wrong with them. I feel the police

handled

> the situation fine. The last time I saw this happening with a child

on

> tv... It was videoed. the girl was out of control because the mother

> lacked parenting skills and encouraged such behavior.... Nothing

wrong

> with handcuffs if the child is kicking and scratching out of a

tantrum..

> If the child was scared of handcuffs because of her behavior.. then

she

> learned.. you cannot act like that . I suspect the mother is not a

very

> good mother IMHO and the mother needs some parenting classes. "

>

> Really? Perhaps you'll change your mind when you read the POLICE

REPORT

> and see the CHARGES that were laid against this child.

>

> Here's how SCARY DANGEROUS this little 6 year old was according to

> witnesses and the police. I have taken the time to type out the

police

> report (I have a jpg of the report and transcribed it directly).

The

> bolding and colouring are mine.

>

> POLICE REPORT

>

> On the above date and time I responded to the Avon Elementary

School at

> 705 W Winthrop Street, Avon Park, 33625 for a disruptive student,

> Desre's . was upset and crying and wailing and would

not

> leave the classroom to let them study causing a disruption of the

normal

> class activities.

>

> Ms. Elder was called to remove her from the classroom, at which she

> began to hit and kick Ms. Elder. She had to be carried to the front

> office at which time she continued to wail and cry and refused to

> communicate in anyway or to calm down.

>

> When I arrived was still carrying on and would not calm down.

> When I approached her she crawled under the table, at which I had to

> crawl and get her and she began to try to pull her legs away to try

to

> get away from me.

>

> When I finally got her clear she began to pull and try to run away

from

> me. I tried several times to get her to calm down and she began to

wail

> louder. I placed her in handcuffs to keep her from hitting and she

still

> kept trying to get away.

>

> Upon placing her into the back of the police vehicle she kept

unbuckling

> and trying to get out by placing her foot in the doorway to prevent

it

> from closing.

>

> I had to have Officer ride in the back with her to the

> police department. The parent was still unreachable. She was

transported

> to the Highlands County Jail.

>

> Hmmmmm, sounds like a normal reaction from a very scared little

girl.

> It certainly doesn't sound like anything that warrants police

> involvement at all.

>

> And what are the charges against this SCARY DANGEROUS child? Let me

> tell you, they certainly threw the book at her.

>

> THE CHARGES

>

> 1. Disruption of School Function 877.13(1a) Misdemeanor 2

> 2. Battery on School Employee 784.081 Felony 3

> 3. Resisting without Violence 843-02 Misdemeanor 1

>

> Holy moley! She was charged for Resisting without Violence because

she

> reacted like any 6 year old scared out of her wits? Come on! And

> charged with Disruption of School Function because she was acting

out in

> class like any 6 year old does from time to time? Battery on a

School

> Employee because she wanted to be heard instead of treated like a

lesser

> being?

>

> Did this Ms. Elder get charged with Forcible Confinement? How about

> Assault on a Minor?

>

> And you know those witnesses (because every Police Report needs

> witnesses for charges to be laid) who gave their names so the

> Prosecuting Attorney has people to call on to recount the events of

that

> day at school when the SCARY DANGEROUS 6 year old attacked? They

are 28

> years old, 38 years old and 44 years old. We're not talking about

> people who are near retirement age; we're talking adults who are in

> their prime for the most part ... people who could certainly take

care

> of a 6 year old in an appropriate fashion rather than resorting to

this

> sort of emotional and psychological abuse.

>

> Does anyone really think that this little girl will ever be able to

> attend school without being terrified that someone will have her

charged

> for reacting in a way that is age appropriate? No. She will most

> likely be afraid to be herself for the rest of her life because

things

> this big that happen early in life tend to stay with the child the

rest

> of his/her life and to shape how the child interacts with the world

as a

> child, as a teen and as an adult.

>

> Nice work there, Avon Elementary School in Highlands County,

Florida!

> <extreme sarcasm>

>

> Raven

> Co-Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

Great work Avon Elementary and no sarcasm here.

More parents need to learn how to be parents and teach manners,

cooperation, and behavior with their children. Perhaps we should have

arrested the parents as well for poor parenting. I would like to see

more of that.. .In UK, teachers now ticket parents whose children do

not come to school. Michigan also filed criminal charges on parents

whose child was out of control and breaking the law. Its starts at

home! The reason we don't have children with manners is because

their parents don't have manners.

" When I die, I want to die healthy "

" Nothing is wrong with them. I feel the police

handled

> the situation fine. The last time I saw this happening with a child

on

> tv... It was videoed. the girl was out of control because the mother

> lacked parenting skills and encouraged such behavior.... Nothing

wrong

> with handcuffs if the child is kicking and scratching out of a

tantrum..

> If the child was scared of handcuffs because of her behavior.. then

she

> learned.. you cannot act like that . I suspect the mother is not a

very

> good mother IMHO and the mother needs some parenting classes. "

>

> Really? Perhaps you'll change your mind when you read the POLICE

REPORT

> and see the CHARGES that were laid against this child.

>

> Here's how SCARY DANGEROUS this little 6 year old was according to

> witnesses and the police. I have taken the time to type out the

police

> report (I have a jpg of the report and transcribed it directly).

The

> bolding and colouring are mine.

>

> POLICE REPORT

>

> On the above date and time I responded to the Avon Elementary

School at

> 705 W Winthrop Street, Avon Park, 33625 for a disruptive student,

> Desre's . was upset and crying and wailing and would

not

> leave the classroom to let them study causing a disruption of the

normal

> class activities.

>

> Ms. Elder was called to remove her from the classroom, at which she

> began to hit and kick Ms. Elder. She had to be carried to the front

> office at which time she continued to wail and cry and refused to

> communicate in anyway or to calm down.

>

> When I arrived was still carrying on and would not calm down.

> When I approached her she crawled under the table, at which I had to

> crawl and get her and she began to try to pull her legs away to try

to

> get away from me.

>

> When I finally got her clear she began to pull and try to run away

from

> me. I tried several times to get her to calm down and she began to

wail

> louder. I placed her in handcuffs to keep her from hitting and she

still

> kept trying to get away.

>

> Upon placing her into the back of the police vehicle she kept

unbuckling

> and trying to get out by placing her foot in the doorway to prevent

it

> from closing.

>

> I had to have Officer ride in the back with her to the

> police department. The parent was still unreachable. She was

transported

> to the Highlands County Jail.

>

> Hmmmmm, sounds like a normal reaction from a very scared little

girl.

> It certainly doesn't sound like anything that warrants police

> involvement at all.

>

> And what are the charges against this SCARY DANGEROUS child? Let me

> tell you, they certainly threw the book at her.

>

> THE CHARGES

>

> 1. Disruption of School Function 877.13(1a) Misdemeanor 2

> 2. Battery on School Employee 784.081 Felony 3

> 3. Resisting without Violence 843-02 Misdemeanor 1

>

> Holy moley! She was charged for Resisting without Violence because

she

> reacted like any 6 year old scared out of her wits? Come on! And

> charged with Disruption of School Function because she was acting

out in

> class like any 6 year old does from time to time? Battery on a

School

> Employee because she wanted to be heard instead of treated like a

lesser

> being?

>

> Did this Ms. Elder get charged with Forcible Confinement? How about

> Assault on a Minor?

>

> And you know those witnesses (because every Police Report needs

> witnesses for charges to be laid) who gave their names so the

> Prosecuting Attorney has people to call on to recount the events of

that

> day at school when the SCARY DANGEROUS 6 year old attacked? They

are 28

> years old, 38 years old and 44 years old. We're not talking about

> people who are near retirement age; we're talking adults who are in

> their prime for the most part ... people who could certainly take

care

> of a 6 year old in an appropriate fashion rather than resorting to

this

> sort of emotional and psychological abuse.

>

> Does anyone really think that this little girl will ever be able to

> attend school without being terrified that someone will have her

charged

> for reacting in a way that is age appropriate? No. She will most

> likely be afraid to be herself for the rest of her life because

things

> this big that happen early in life tend to stay with the child the

rest

> of his/her life and to shape how the child interacts with the world

as a

> child, as a teen and as an adult.

>

> Nice work there, Avon Elementary School in Highlands County,

Florida!

> <extreme sarcasm>

>

> Raven

> Co-Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

We don't know what provoked the situation though. It could be that the

child herself was bullied and tormented before she flew off the handle.

I'm researching information on bullying right now and it turns out that

the biggest problem related to bullying in the educational setting is

teachers deliberately and willfully ignoring it because it is a social

problem instead of an educational one. Thus kids get tormented under

the noses of teachers to the point where they go crazy, and THEN they

are disciplined for " over-reacting " instead of responding in kind.

This incites the person who is picked on to further outbursts. It is

quite possible that this is what happened to the child in this story.

Tom

Administrator

Nothing is wrong with them. I feel the police handled the situation

fine. The last time I saw this happening with a child on tv... It

was videoed. the girl was out of control because the mother lacked

parenting skills and encouraged such behavior.... Nothing wrong with

handcuffs if the child is kicking and scratching out of a tantrum..

If the child was scared of handcuffs because of her behavior.. then

she learned.. you cannot act like that . I suspect the mother is not

a very good mother IMHO and the mother needs some parenting classes.

[Guest guest]

wrote: " No.. does not change my mind. Policeofficers are also

peace officers. The child was uncontrollable ... <snip> ... "

So were the adults but none of the adults were charged.

wrote: " ... <snip> ... They tried to contact the mother (no

telling where she was) ... <snip> ... "

You're right. She may have been busy holding down a full time job, in

an important meeting with an important client, running her own business

so she doesn't have to rely on Welfare to cover her and her child or

children. In some cases, the school only takes the time to call the

home phone number and doesn't bother with the office number of the cell

number (for parents who are on the road as part of their employment).

But most people want to believe that mothers who can't be contacted

immediately must be lazy lay-abouts who are busy drinking beers at the

local saloon or yukking up with their other lazy lay-about friends at

some bingo hall.

wrote: " ... <snip> ... Police officers are nice people. They are

NOT Darth Vador... <snip> ... "

I've seen some very not nice people in all walks of life. I've seen

some really rotten people in all walks of life, including law

enforcement. I've seen some law enforcement officers who had no concept

of right or wrong and who broke the law themselves because they could.

I've also seen some excellent people in all walks of life. One is not

automatically a nice person by virtue of one's profession, even if it is

law enforcement.

wrote: " ... <snip> ... Why would anyone be afraid of their

child being in a police car or with the police? ... <snip> ... "

The child was afraid. And from the Police Report, no one prior to

calling the police had tried to understand what the problem was.

wrote: " ... <snip> ... If my child were acting that way at 6,

and they could not find me... I would go to the police station and find

out what happened. No big thing.. If my child was upset because she got

into trouble for her actions... then she learned... especially after we

had a long talk about it ... <snip> ... "

You would be ok with having your child abused by adults in the school

system? You would be ok with adults NOT being charged for having broken

the law? <Raven shakes her head> That completely floors me! The child

wasn't just upset. The child was terrorized long before the police

arrived on the scene. And no wonder.

wrote: " ... <snip> ... That was NOT repeat NOT a normal

reaction from a very scared little girl. ... <snip> ... "

Really? How many special needs children do you know with developmental

delays who appear to be 'normal'? I've known more than a few. AS is

not usually diagnosed in children until they are, on average 10 years

old. That's because most people who do not have AS do not recognize the

signs of AS in children but those adults with AS most assuredly do.

This girl's reaction is very much in keeping with the reactions of a

very scared child with development delays on the autism spectrum.

wrote: " ... <snip> ... That was a reaction from an out of

control child who grew up in a home thinking this is how to behave. I

think the need to have social services to check into the child's

homelife. "

And that statement is uncalled for, , since you are making an

inappropriate judgment on the child and the child's homelife without

considering any other possibilities like the possibility that the child

has an undiagnosed autism spectrum disorder.

Your comments are very much like the comments I have heard from teachers

and support staff in school settings who, even knowing that a child has

an autism spectrum diagnosis, insist that the child must be growing up

in a terrible home with terrible role models and no discipline

whatsoever.

Raven

[Guest guest]

Tom exactly! We don't know! The biggest problem I see in bullying is

a combination of things... Parents, schools, community. My daughter

has dealt with bullies as many of my cousins.. in fact my cousin who

has aspergers and oCD and I spent the night at my ranch... we talked

about being bullied... He was bullied by his siblings and kids at

school.... it has affect him greatly and he is now 52. He was

bullied at home by his siblings who also have OCD and aspergers.. and

that lead the way to it happening in school.

>

> Nothing is wrong with them. I feel the police handled the situation

> fine. The last time I saw this happening with a child on tv... It

> was videoed. the girl was out of control because the mother lacked

> parenting skills and encouraged such behavior.... Nothing wrong

with

> handcuffs if the child is kicking and scratching out of a tantrum..

> If the child was scared of handcuffs because of her behavior.. then

> she learned.. you cannot act like that . I suspect the mother is

not

> a very good mother IMHO and the mother needs some parenting classes.

>

[Guest guest]

Again, I disagree. As an AS advocate, I once witnessed an Educational

Assistant provoke a well-mannered earnest AS boy to the point where he

threw a tantrum. My interventions and the interventions of the mother

were all that diffused the situation.

Having been trained to be a teacher, I can tell you that many of my

fellow trainees were into smoking pot, group sex, Satan worship,

getting drunk, and cheating on their exams, not to mention their

partners and spouses.

I dropped out of the profession when I witnessed school administrators

covering the rear ends of the teachers at the expense of students to

save their jobs.

This sort of thing was commonplace in the four separate school

districts I worked at in four separate counties across my home state.

While parents of bullies can much of the time be blamed for kids acting

up at school, the teachers can be blamed directly when they, for

example, make sexual comments to their students about their bodies and

have other teachers back them up when confronted by angry parents.

Teachers are guilt of allowing bullies to beat up other kids, and even

of assisting bullies in harassing the bullied.

Ever seen a male gym instructor comment on a high school girl's

developing breasts in a coed swimming class? I have. The girl narking

on him did no good. Even the female instructors took his side because

they thought she was a " prom queen. "

Tom

Administrator

Great work Avon Elementary and no sarcasm here.

More parents need to learn how to be parents and teach manners,

cooperation, and behavior with their children. Perhaps we should have

arrested the parents as well for poor parenting. I would like to see

more of that.. .In UK, teachers now ticket parents whose children do

not come to school. Michigan also filed criminal charges on parents

whose child was out of control and breaking the law. Its starts at

home! The reason we don't have children with manners is because

their parents don't have manners.

" When I die, I want to die healthy "

[Guest guest]

" ... <snip> ... That was a reaction from an out of

> control child who grew up in a home thinking this is how to behave.

I

> think the need to have social services to check into the child's

> homelife. "

>

> And that statement is uncalled for, , since you are making an

> inappropriate judgment on the child and the child's homelife without

> considering any other possibilities like the possibility that the

child

> has an undiagnosed autism spectrum disorder.

>

> Your comments are very much like the comments I have heard from

teachers

> and support staff in school settings who, even knowing that a child

has

> an autism spectrum diagnosis, insist that the child must be growing

up

> in a terrible home with terrible role models and no discipline

> whatsoever.

>

My statement was called for and needs to be called for more often.

Hysterical violent parents and guardians often encourage such

behavior in their children. if one can't right , then be wrong in a

loud voice. Perhaps the teachers and support staff are right.. I

only volunteered and saw all this as a volunteer mom, and as student

myself. I don't like violent bullies from staff , students or parents

and will call them on it...No matter who they are. I am not nor will

ever be afraid of bullies nor have my opinions changed by bullies.

Bullying begins in the home, spreads to the neighborhood, and then to

the school. I have seen the cycle.

> Raven

>

[Guest guest]

So? there are abusive people in all walks of life. I judge people by

their character not their occupation, race, colour, religion, sex,

etc etc... I have worked in the criminal justice system, the

university system, been a parent of and a student of private and

public schools. I have seen abuse in many places by many people.. by

the same token I have seen parents who do not take responsibility for

their roles as parents, sometimes encourage bad behavior by overtly

teaching such or through example or both, and the parents came from

all socio/economic backgrounds. Its about individual character.

>

> " Police officers are nice people. They are NOT Darth Vador... The

> child's welfare was also a concern. "

>

> Knowing many police officers personally due to one of my friends

> being a fireman, I know that police, more than those in other

> professions, are prone to smoking the dope they confiscate, beating

> their wives and using each other as allibis, and pulling over

pretty

> women to get sex out of them in exchange for dropping tickets.

>

> They also beat their kids.

>

> I've seen cops koking about these things in my presence, and I've

> seen others talk about other cops who have been disciplined for

> doing the same.

>

> From a psychological point of view, you have to be able to think

> like a criminal to catch a criminal.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

So? there are abusive people in all walks of life. I judge people by

their character not their occupation, race, colour, religion, sex,

etc etc... I have worked in the criminal justice system, the

university system, been a parent of and a student of private and

public schools. I have seen abuse in many places by many people.. by

the same token I have seen parents who do not take responsibility for

their roles as parents, sometimes encourage bad behavior by overtly

teaching such or through example or both, and the parents came from

all socio/economic backgrounds. Its about individual character.

>

> " Police officers are nice people. They are NOT Darth Vador... The

> child's welfare was also a concern. "

>

> Knowing many police officers personally due to one of my friends

> being a fireman, I know that police, more than those in other

> professions, are prone to smoking the dope they confiscate, beating

> their wives and using each other as allibis, and pulling over

pretty

> women to get sex out of them in exchange for dropping tickets.

>

> They also beat their kids.

>

> I've seen cops koking about these things in my presence, and I've

> seen others talk about other cops who have been disciplined for

> doing the same.

>

> From a psychological point of view, you have to be able to think

> like a criminal to catch a criminal.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

, there's no talking with you. You want me to believe that you

know everything and that it's obvious the child in question is being

poorly parented. You are comparing schooling from 50 years ago to

schooling nowadays. You are comparing being a parent of a school aged

child (in the 70s and 80s perhaps) to schooling now (20 to 30 years

later). You are making the same sorts of rude assumptions that I have

seen made often over the years and thinking that you are right and all

children should just suck it up when they are abused.

So, since there's no talking with you, I won't talk with you. I will

no longer respond to your inappropriate, generalized posts that have no

foundation in fact but plenty of discriminatory conjecture.

Raven

[Guest guest]

, there's no talking with you. You want me to believe that you

know everything and that it's obvious the child in question is being

poorly parented. You are comparing schooling from 50 years ago to

schooling nowadays. You are comparing being a parent of a school aged

child (in the 70s and 80s perhaps) to schooling now (20 to 30 years

later). You are making the same sorts of rude assumptions that I have

seen made often over the years and thinking that you are right and all

children should just suck it up when they are abused.

So, since there's no talking with you, I won't talk with you. I will

no longer respond to your inappropriate, generalized posts that have no

foundation in fact but plenty of discriminatory conjecture.

Raven

[Guest guest]

" ... <snip> ... Its starts at home! The reason we

> don't have children with manners is because their parents don't

have

> manners ... <snip> ... "

>

> In many cases, it's because outside influences have no manners and

no

> compassion and they insist on abusing our children on the autism

> spectrum rather than work with the parents and work with the

children.

>

> It's amazing how much success people can have when they actually

come

> from compassion and understanding and good hearts rather than

coming

> from judgment and callousness and discrimination.

>

> Raven

>

I did not see that in the report.. this is your novel which you added

to the report... Perhaps you can show the world how to do it right,

since you have the answers to every situation even though the facts

in the report do not match with your posts.

[Guest guest]

" My statement was called for and needs to be called for more often.

Hysterical violent parents and guardians often encourage such

behavior in their children. if one can't right , then be wrong in a

loud voice. Perhaps the teachers and support staff are right.. I

only volunteered and saw all this as a volunteer mom, and as student

myself. I don't like violent bullies from staff , students or parents

and will call them on it...No matter who they are. I am not nor will

ever be afraid of bullies nor have my opinions changed by bullies.

Bullying begins in the home, spreads to the neighborhood, and then to

the school. I have seen the cycle. "

Yes, but the question is, are you mis-identifying the bully?

Sometimes we judge a situation by what we see, not by what hasn't

been seen.

I was personally bullied as a kid, and rarely fought back because my

mom told me that Christian boys shouldn't fight, even if provoked.

But one day I hit a bully back.

Wouldn't you know it? The Vice Principal had glanced casually out

the window at me and saw me hit the fellow who had just hit me in

the stomach more than a dozen times.

I got three detentions from that. The bully got nothing, and after

each detention the bully and his friends caught me and beat me up.

It wasn't until a gym teacher cottoned on to this and gave me free

license to fight back that I was able to get them off my back.

So in this case, the Vice Principal was wrong in his perceptions

that I was the bully, and the gym teacher rightly identified the

bully and allowed me to defend myself.

Personally, I feel that the gym teacher's approach is the correct

way to handle the problem.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

" ... <snip> ... By the same token I would go after

> any teacher who truly abused a child, as well as go after any other

> child and their parents if they abused another child or encouraged

> their bully children by ommision or commision to act up against

> students and teachers ... <snip> ... "

>

> And who is going to come forward and rat out a colleague? Recently

> in the news there was a report about a principal and a teacher

having

> sex on the principal's desk while being videotaped by another

> teacher. Nothing was said until the videotape accidentally found

its

> way into the wrong hands and then to the media and only THEN was

> something done.

>

> Recently in the news, a teacher in a small town in British Columbia

> was found guilty of having sexual relations with a number of his

> minor aged students and it had been going on with the knowledge of

> many of his colleagues over a period of 10 years. None of the

adults

> said a word and no one believed the victims because they were

minors.

>

> And in yet another story, a principal in Toronto was returned to a

> principalship in a 'different' school after she was found guilty of

> assaulting two children -- 10 and 11 -- because she was overworked

> and overtired. The court case proved that she was angry for other

> reasons and that these two boys were in the wrong place at the

wrong

> time ... and she let them both have it just because she thought she

> could get away with it.

>

> Lately there have been a lot of teachers -- male and female -- in

the

> news who have been abusing their minor students just because they

> can.

>

> It happens and it happens a lot more often to our children who are

> special needs because who is going to listen to a ... to a ....

> weirdo?

>

> Raven

>

Raven I have seen dishonorable people in all areas, parents,

teachers, police and children themselves.

Why do you feel you are talking to someone who knows nothing about

raising a child with aspergers? I have it myself. Almost my entire

family has it along with OCD ..some bi polar. .etc...

I have mentioned that I have experienced as well as my child abuse

from teachers, other students, parents..etc..

Nothing in that report talkes about half of what you are claiming its

talking about. Where was the girl shown to have aspergers or OCD?

Now we are getting into the politics of single parents. Amazing..

what next will be pulled from the rabbits hat and added to the report

given.

My cousin told me last night that he has not married because he

feared that he could not make a wife happy nor raise his child

wihtout being well himself. He chose a single life without being

parent.. You know... that decision alone make me think he would be a

better parent than most I read about. He is so responsible he did not

bring a life into a world that he felt he could not care for. What a

guy!

I feel if one needs to change the facts of a newspaper story to fit

their own life, it does nothing.... facts are changed to suite ones

own wishes of justice.. or injustice.

[Guest guest]

" ... <snip> ... By the same token I would go after

> any teacher who truly abused a child, as well as go after any other

> child and their parents if they abused another child or encouraged

> their bully children by ommision or commision to act up against

> students and teachers ... <snip> ... "

>

> And who is going to come forward and rat out a colleague? Recently

> in the news there was a report about a principal and a teacher

having

> sex on the principal's desk while being videotaped by another

> teacher. Nothing was said until the videotape accidentally found

its

> way into the wrong hands and then to the media and only THEN was

> something done.

>

> Recently in the news, a teacher in a small town in British Columbia

> was found guilty of having sexual relations with a number of his

> minor aged students and it had been going on with the knowledge of

> many of his colleagues over a period of 10 years. None of the

adults

> said a word and no one believed the victims because they were

minors.

>

> And in yet another story, a principal in Toronto was returned to a

> principalship in a 'different' school after she was found guilty of

> assaulting two children -- 10 and 11 -- because she was overworked

> and overtired. The court case proved that she was angry for other

> reasons and that these two boys were in the wrong place at the

wrong

> time ... and she let them both have it just because she thought she

> could get away with it.

>

> Lately there have been a lot of teachers -- male and female -- in

the

> news who have been abusing their minor students just because they

> can.

>

> It happens and it happens a lot more often to our children who are

> special needs because who is going to listen to a ... to a ....

> weirdo?

>

> Raven

>

Raven I have seen dishonorable people in all areas, parents,

teachers, police and children themselves.

Why do you feel you are talking to someone who knows nothing about

raising a child with aspergers? I have it myself. Almost my entire

family has it along with OCD ..some bi polar. .etc...

I have mentioned that I have experienced as well as my child abuse

from teachers, other students, parents..etc..

Nothing in that report talkes about half of what you are claiming its

talking about. Where was the girl shown to have aspergers or OCD?

Now we are getting into the politics of single parents. Amazing..

what next will be pulled from the rabbits hat and added to the report

given.

My cousin told me last night that he has not married because he

feared that he could not make a wife happy nor raise his child

wihtout being well himself. He chose a single life without being

parent.. You know... that decision alone make me think he would be a

better parent than most I read about. He is so responsible he did not

bring a life into a world that he felt he could not care for. What a

guy!

I feel if one needs to change the facts of a newspaper story to fit

their own life, it does nothing.... facts are changed to suite ones

own wishes of justice.. or injustice.

[Guest guest]

Seems like you want people to read the report the way you do...I read

the report and don't see half of what you are claiming., and IF we

disagree, you claim there is no talking with a person. No I dont want

you believe I know everything.. I am a genius but I don't know

everything .but if you can't discuss, then please don't call me

names TY. Now where did I say " Suck it up " Please show me. Oh so now

you assume (never assume) that my child was in school in the 70s and

80s...where did you get that so called fact... Tell me when my

daughter graduated from HS. Take a deep breath.. Yoga is good

too... I am easy to talk with when facts are not changed for

convenience. SHould I HAVE to agree the emperor is really wearing

clothes when I see nothing?

>

> , there's no talking with you. You want me to believe that

you

> know everything and that it's obvious the child in question is

being

> poorly parented. You are comparing schooling from 50 years ago to

> schooling nowadays. You are comparing being a parent of a school

aged

> child (in the 70s and 80s perhaps) to schooling now (20 to 30 years

> later). You are making the same sorts of rude assumptions that I

have

> seen made often over the years and thinking that you are right and

all

> children should just suck it up when they are abused.

>

> So, since there's no talking with you, I won't talk with you. I

will

> no longer respond to your inappropriate, generalized posts that

have no

> foundation in fact but plenty of discriminatory conjecture.

>

> Raven

>

[Guest guest]

Seems like you want people to read the report the way you do...I read

the report and don't see half of what you are claiming., and IF we

disagree, you claim there is no talking with a person. No I dont want

you believe I know everything.. I am a genius but I don't know

everything .but if you can't discuss, then please don't call me

names TY. Now where did I say " Suck it up " Please show me. Oh so now

you assume (never assume) that my child was in school in the 70s and

80s...where did you get that so called fact... Tell me when my

daughter graduated from HS. Take a deep breath.. Yoga is good

too... I am easy to talk with when facts are not changed for

convenience. SHould I HAVE to agree the emperor is really wearing

clothes when I see nothing?

>

> , there's no talking with you. You want me to believe that

you

> know everything and that it's obvious the child in question is

being

> poorly parented. You are comparing schooling from 50 years ago to

> schooling nowadays. You are comparing being a parent of a school

aged

> child (in the 70s and 80s perhaps) to schooling now (20 to 30 years

> later). You are making the same sorts of rude assumptions that I

have

> seen made often over the years and thinking that you are right and

all

> children should just suck it up when they are abused.

>

> So, since there's no talking with you, I won't talk with you. I

will

> no longer respond to your inappropriate, generalized posts that

have no

> foundation in fact but plenty of discriminatory conjecture.

>

> Raven

>