Re: medicine tomorrow?

[Guest guest]

Biotech has some pretty interesting implications. One is hardiness. Alot of celiacs have died out and they're still dying undiagnosed. It's an interesting book: Dangerous Grains. It's about the impact of peptides in the bloodstream. Many Northern Europeans' countries didn't have wheat 10,000 years ago and there's a high percentage of Celiac among these. Iv'e always had a side of me that's interested in the biotech though. It seems that if people can have their brains working more efficiently and more mathematically there may be hope for life on Mars or somewhere else. Maybe the comp generation is only the beginning of a math renaissance. miminm <mnmimi@...> wrote: AbstractThe present invention provides methods for synthesis, and therapeutic use of DNA and RNA oligonucleotides and analogs. RNA oligonucleotides arc synthesized using a small, circular DNA template which lacks an RNA polymerase promoter sequence. The RNA synthesis is performed by combining a circular single-stranded oligonucleotide template with an effective RNA polymerase and at least two types of ribonucleotide triphosphate to form an RNA oligonucleotide multimer comprising multiple copies of the desired RNA oligonucleotide sequence. Preferably, the RNA oligonucleotide multimer is cleaved to produce RNA oligonucleotides having well-defined ends. Preferred RNA oligonucleotide

multimers contain ribozymes capable of both cis (autolytic) and trans cleavage. This abstract is for a patent, I found this in a search for Mr. Sebat (corrected spelling) This is genetic plastic surgery, either way saying ASD is inhereited genetically or spontanious mutation, the medical answer is the same human alteration. From the discussion mutated genes can effect anxiety level, agressive behavior, as well as digestion issues. (the mechanics of humanity as seen through genetic hot spots) The question is still the same, trust in the ability of nature to mitigate malladies (depression, anxiety etc.) Or submit to consented mutilation of the human genome??!!!!In essense this is my feeling. We evolved over time with our environment (plants animals, minerals,elements, etc) Why not trust what was given to use to mitigate our circumstance. What we consume and are exposed to can alter us; I also believe it can

return us to what we are meant to be. Unaltered beings, original equipment.I had participated in research studies in order to pass this view along. i thought if I said it enough someone would hear me. I did not know that the same groups were simply looking to operate on our humanity to cut out defect(as they see it) I am reminded of a star trek Next Generation in which a planet has genetically erased any and all disease, problem etc. Jordy whom is blind saves the planet because the technology in his visor(to correct his blindness) solves the problem of the planets demise. I am truly saddened by the cut and paste of what it is to be unique and human. Couldn't sleep last night, started college classes again.I feel a bit lost. I want to help change things for the better through,love and understanding(kinda the same things) and supporting not through scalpels and butchery (gee how vegan of me) I am not

intrested in being the genetically modifyied chicken that has less fat and more protein. Medicine even sees humans this way. Not sure if I am getting my point across. With all of it's big words medicine is still so base.

Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Answers - Check it out.

[Guest guest]

Biotech has some pretty interesting implications. One is hardiness. Alot of celiacs have died out and they're still dying undiagnosed. It's an interesting book: Dangerous Grains. It's about the impact of peptides in the bloodstream. Many Northern Europeans' countries didn't have wheat 10,000 years ago and there's a high percentage of Celiac among these. Iv'e always had a side of me that's interested in the biotech though. It seems that if people can have their brains working more efficiently and more mathematically there may be hope for life on Mars or somewhere else. Maybe the comp generation is only the beginning of a math renaissance. miminm <mnmimi@...> wrote: AbstractThe present invention provides methods for synthesis, and therapeutic use of DNA and RNA oligonucleotides and analogs. RNA oligonucleotides arc synthesized using a small, circular DNA template which lacks an RNA polymerase promoter sequence. The RNA synthesis is performed by combining a circular single-stranded oligonucleotide template with an effective RNA polymerase and at least two types of ribonucleotide triphosphate to form an RNA oligonucleotide multimer comprising multiple copies of the desired RNA oligonucleotide sequence. Preferably, the RNA oligonucleotide multimer is cleaved to produce RNA oligonucleotides having well-defined ends. Preferred RNA oligonucleotide

multimers contain ribozymes capable of both cis (autolytic) and trans cleavage. This abstract is for a patent, I found this in a search for Mr. Sebat (corrected spelling) This is genetic plastic surgery, either way saying ASD is inhereited genetically or spontanious mutation, the medical answer is the same human alteration. From the discussion mutated genes can effect anxiety level, agressive behavior, as well as digestion issues. (the mechanics of humanity as seen through genetic hot spots) The question is still the same, trust in the ability of nature to mitigate malladies (depression, anxiety etc.) Or submit to consented mutilation of the human genome??!!!!In essense this is my feeling. We evolved over time with our environment (plants animals, minerals,elements, etc) Why not trust what was given to use to mitigate our circumstance. What we consume and are exposed to can alter us; I also believe it can

return us to what we are meant to be. Unaltered beings, original equipment.I had participated in research studies in order to pass this view along. i thought if I said it enough someone would hear me. I did not know that the same groups were simply looking to operate on our humanity to cut out defect(as they see it) I am reminded of a star trek Next Generation in which a planet has genetically erased any and all disease, problem etc. Jordy whom is blind saves the planet because the technology in his visor(to correct his blindness) solves the problem of the planets demise. I am truly saddened by the cut and paste of what it is to be unique and human. Couldn't sleep last night, started college classes again.I feel a bit lost. I want to help change things for the better through,love and understanding(kinda the same things) and supporting not through scalpels and butchery (gee how vegan of me) I am not

intrested in being the genetically modifyied chicken that has less fat and more protein. Medicine even sees humans this way. Not sure if I am getting my point across. With all of it's big words medicine is still so base.

Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Answers - Check it out.

[Guest guest]

>

> Biotech has some pretty interesting implications. One is hardiness.

Alot of celiacs have died out and they're still dying undiagnosed.

It's an interesting book: Dangerous Grains. It's about the impact of

peptides in the bloodstream. Many Northern Europeans' countries

didn't have wheat 10,000 years ago and there's a high percentage of

Celiac among these. Iv'e always had a side of me that's interested in

the biotech though. It seems that if people can have their brains

working more efficiently and more mathematically there may be hope

for life on Mars or somewhere else. Maybe the comp generation is only

the beginning of a math renaissance.

>

>

I have actually been depressed about this for days. What is the

allowable condition for altering a human. Can we control those

alterations to be discreet or are we changing whom that person is by

altering their DNA. Are we correcting to save a life or for

convience.

I am in courses at college to be a Speech and Language pathologist.

I want to do this for my son, but I also want to do it for other

children who think and process in a different way. (similar to mine)

This last week I have been increasingly anxious, feeling more alien

and outcast " because I have to fit into a student setting " I can be

overly technical in a group especially if they are moving too slow

for me. So I feel " left out " angry and frustrated, I have

considered the disability office because I could take tests in a room

alone nad away from others. I feel that is impractical, because I

woun't be able to do that if I work in a school. I have to find a

way to cope; in order to teach effective coping to smaller people.

So what if I could wipe the anxiousness out of my system by

getting " recoded " would I want that? Who would I be afterward, would

I think or process differently or would I just be numb in certain

areas? Would I cease to have the Mimi " experience " that I am having.

I feel the misuse of this technology is far weighter than it's

usefulness. Could we recode for any annoyance. Why can't we choose

to help ourselves and find effective ways of coping. Do I believe

life should be preserved: Yes! but should we recode for big boobs or

a better laugh: no! We are our experience, there are social ills

that add or detract from that experience, we come close to mapping

humanity and choosing for others? I don't want you to choose for me

and I do not want to rob you of your ability to choose. There are

consequences for choice. I believe it would be an end to meaningful

experience and learning. I am frightened and dissipointed by the

prospect. It seems to insult human exsistance, there has to be a

more natural approach to healing and helping those in need.

Maybe it is just me

[Guest guest]

>

> Biotech has some pretty interesting implications. One is hardiness.

Alot of celiacs have died out and they're still dying undiagnosed.

It's an interesting book: Dangerous Grains. It's about the impact of

peptides in the bloodstream. Many Northern Europeans' countries

didn't have wheat 10,000 years ago and there's a high percentage of

Celiac among these. Iv'e always had a side of me that's interested in

the biotech though. It seems that if people can have their brains

working more efficiently and more mathematically there may be hope

for life on Mars or somewhere else. Maybe the comp generation is only

the beginning of a math renaissance.

>

>

I have actually been depressed about this for days. What is the

allowable condition for altering a human. Can we control those

alterations to be discreet or are we changing whom that person is by

altering their DNA. Are we correcting to save a life or for

convience.

I am in courses at college to be a Speech and Language pathologist.

I want to do this for my son, but I also want to do it for other

children who think and process in a different way. (similar to mine)

This last week I have been increasingly anxious, feeling more alien

and outcast " because I have to fit into a student setting " I can be

overly technical in a group especially if they are moving too slow

for me. So I feel " left out " angry and frustrated, I have

considered the disability office because I could take tests in a room

alone nad away from others. I feel that is impractical, because I

woun't be able to do that if I work in a school. I have to find a

way to cope; in order to teach effective coping to smaller people.

So what if I could wipe the anxiousness out of my system by

getting " recoded " would I want that? Who would I be afterward, would

I think or process differently or would I just be numb in certain

areas? Would I cease to have the Mimi " experience " that I am having.

I feel the misuse of this technology is far weighter than it's

usefulness. Could we recode for any annoyance. Why can't we choose

to help ourselves and find effective ways of coping. Do I believe

life should be preserved: Yes! but should we recode for big boobs or

a better laugh: no! We are our experience, there are social ills

that add or detract from that experience, we come close to mapping

humanity and choosing for others? I don't want you to choose for me

and I do not want to rob you of your ability to choose. There are

consequences for choice. I believe it would be an end to meaningful

experience and learning. I am frightened and dissipointed by the

prospect. It seems to insult human exsistance, there has to be a

more natural approach to healing and helping those in need.

Maybe it is just me

[Guest guest]

> I am truly saddened by the cut and paste of what it is to be unique

> and human. Couldn't sleep last night, started college classes again.

>

> I feel a bit lost. I want to help change things for the better

> through,love and understanding(kinda the same things) and supporting

> not through scalpels and butchery (gee how vegan of me) I am not

> intrested in being the genetically modifyied chicken that has less

> fat and more protein. Medicine even sees humans this way. Not sure

> if I am getting my point across. With all of it's big words medicine

> is still so base.

>

In the novel I'm writing this is the norm, and DNA modification is

seen as much as an artform and/or seeking your 'true' self as it is a

useful improvement for functioning.

The controversies raised are similar to the typical conspiracy stories

in science fiction - where the 'all naturals' believe there is a move

to force people into genetic alteration for perfection and think

everyone should be as nature/God intended - where as those who

want/need to change believe in having a right to decide what they do

to their own bodies without anyones moral judgment on the procedures.

I don't answer the questions in my novel, this setting is just a

convenient one in which to tell the story of my main characters'

self-discovery and freedom from the limitations put on them through

the perceptions of others.

I started with this concept about 2 years ago and every time I start

reading about something like this article I realize my time line for

this story taking place 40 years in the future is probably too long!

As is said many times about 'science' - it does what it can without

asking if it 'should'.... that is for the philosophers and politicians.

[Guest guest]

> I am truly saddened by the cut and paste of what it is to be unique

> and human. Couldn't sleep last night, started college classes again.

>

> I feel a bit lost. I want to help change things for the better

> through,love and understanding(kinda the same things) and supporting

> not through scalpels and butchery (gee how vegan of me) I am not

> intrested in being the genetically modifyied chicken that has less

> fat and more protein. Medicine even sees humans this way. Not sure

> if I am getting my point across. With all of it's big words medicine

> is still so base.

>

In the novel I'm writing this is the norm, and DNA modification is

seen as much as an artform and/or seeking your 'true' self as it is a

useful improvement for functioning.

The controversies raised are similar to the typical conspiracy stories

in science fiction - where the 'all naturals' believe there is a move

to force people into genetic alteration for perfection and think

everyone should be as nature/God intended - where as those who

want/need to change believe in having a right to decide what they do

to their own bodies without anyones moral judgment on the procedures.

I don't answer the questions in my novel, this setting is just a

convenient one in which to tell the story of my main characters'

self-discovery and freedom from the limitations put on them through

the perceptions of others.

I started with this concept about 2 years ago and every time I start

reading about something like this article I realize my time line for

this story taking place 40 years in the future is probably too long!

As is said many times about 'science' - it does what it can without

asking if it 'should'.... that is for the philosophers and politicians.

[Guest guest]

>

>> In the novel I'm writing this is the norm, and DNA modification is

> seen as much as an artform and/or seeking your 'true' self as it is

a useful improvement for functioning.

>

> The controversies raised are similar to the typical conspiracy

stories in science fiction - where the 'all naturals' believe there

is a move

> to force people into genetic alteration for perfection and think

> everyone should be as nature/God intended - where as those who

> want/need to change believe in having a right to decide what they do

> to their own bodies without anyones moral judgment on the

procedures.

>

> I don't answer the questions in my novel, this setting is just a

> convenient one in which to tell the story of my main characters'

> self-discovery and freedom from the limitations put on them through

> the perceptions of others.

>

> I started with this concept about 2 years ago and every time I start

> reading about something like this article I realize my time line for

> this story taking place 40 years in the future is probably too long!

>

> As is said many times about 'science' - it does what it can without

> asking if it 'should'.... that is for the philosophers and

politicians.

>

40 years may be enough time for this to be accepted and commonplace.

My sadness is in what will/and is being determined as dimissable. I

think of my son. I want his health, but not him submission. I don't

want to limit choice but making a decision for a fetus denies

choice. Altering a child denies choice. My daughter has a belly

ring (much to my dismay) that is her choice and responsibility. If I

choose her belly ring I would be violating her) I give her the tools

to choose, but the choice is hers. I supprt Ravi who is 6 and not 16

and with regard to his functioning cognitive level. He cannot get a

Tatto today, but when he is 18 Pdd or not he can. That will be a

choice. It is my hope I have done what is necessary to support him

and guide him. So the sadness stems from the medical community

making the choice, the possibility that insurance companies, or the

gov's choosing or forcing that alteration be made. Who will be

allowed to choose will a child's best interests really be considered

or will it be convience or fiancial. Maybe this is fodder for your

tale

[Guest guest]

>

>> In the novel I'm writing this is the norm, and DNA modification is

> seen as much as an artform and/or seeking your 'true' self as it is

a useful improvement for functioning.

>

> The controversies raised are similar to the typical conspiracy

stories in science fiction - where the 'all naturals' believe there

is a move

> to force people into genetic alteration for perfection and think

> everyone should be as nature/God intended - where as those who

> want/need to change believe in having a right to decide what they do

> to their own bodies without anyones moral judgment on the

procedures.

>

> I don't answer the questions in my novel, this setting is just a

> convenient one in which to tell the story of my main characters'

> self-discovery and freedom from the limitations put on them through

> the perceptions of others.

>

> I started with this concept about 2 years ago and every time I start

> reading about something like this article I realize my time line for

> this story taking place 40 years in the future is probably too long!

>

> As is said many times about 'science' - it does what it can without

> asking if it 'should'.... that is for the philosophers and

politicians.

>

40 years may be enough time for this to be accepted and commonplace.

My sadness is in what will/and is being determined as dimissable. I

think of my son. I want his health, but not him submission. I don't

want to limit choice but making a decision for a fetus denies

choice. Altering a child denies choice. My daughter has a belly

ring (much to my dismay) that is her choice and responsibility. If I

choose her belly ring I would be violating her) I give her the tools

to choose, but the choice is hers. I supprt Ravi who is 6 and not 16

and with regard to his functioning cognitive level. He cannot get a

Tatto today, but when he is 18 Pdd or not he can. That will be a

choice. It is my hope I have done what is necessary to support him

and guide him. So the sadness stems from the medical community

making the choice, the possibility that insurance companies, or the

gov's choosing or forcing that alteration be made. Who will be

allowed to choose will a child's best interests really be considered

or will it be convience or fiancial. Maybe this is fodder for your

tale

[Guest guest]

So the sadness stems from the medical community

> making the choice, the possibility that insurance companies, or the

> gov's choosing or forcing that alteration be made. Who will be

> allowed to choose will a child's best interests really be considered

> or will it be convience or fiancial. Maybe this is fodder for your

> tale

>

Yes! Financial incentive is used by corporations in the novel for

fetal termination when an employees child's care will be costly. I

will spare you the details, but basically it requires sacrifice to

keep an imperfect baby.

One of the points of the novel is to challenge what we understand as

'freedom'. It's not just about doing what you want with no

consequences, it's about being willing to make sacrifices to do what

you think is right.

For instance, going without some luxuries so that you can afford

organic food on a daily basis.

[Guest guest]

So the sadness stems from the medical community

> making the choice, the possibility that insurance companies, or the

> gov's choosing or forcing that alteration be made. Who will be

> allowed to choose will a child's best interests really be considered

> or will it be convience or fiancial. Maybe this is fodder for your

> tale

>

Yes! Financial incentive is used by corporations in the novel for

fetal termination when an employees child's care will be costly. I

will spare you the details, but basically it requires sacrifice to

keep an imperfect baby.

One of the points of the novel is to challenge what we understand as

'freedom'. It's not just about doing what you want with no

consequences, it's about being willing to make sacrifices to do what

you think is right.

For instance, going without some luxuries so that you can afford

organic food on a daily basis.

[Guest guest]

> Yes! Financial incentive is used by corporations in the novel for

> fetal termination when an employees child's care will be costly. I

> will spare you the details, but basically it requires sacrifice to

> keep an imperfect baby.

>

> One of the points of the novel is to challenge what we understand as

> 'freedom'. It's not just about doing what you want with no

> consequences, it's about being willing to make sacrifices to do what

> you think is right.

>

> For instance, going without some luxuries so that you can afford

> organic food on a daily basis.

>

LOL, if that is in there then maybe 40 years out is too long because

keeping an unaccepted human child, necessitates sacrifice at the

hands of Govt and insurance companies.

Of course they determine the definition of perfect.

Which in today's society is a child that is brillant, socially

accepted, beautiful/handsome, is never ill (even with a cold) makes

money from birth (that can be taxed) and pays for services that they

will never need or use, oh and can pay for an education out of

pocket. Based on that, no one is NT or even near perfect, but that

never seems to bother the people that expect it. Good luck with the

book.

[Guest guest]

I agree that natural healing ought to be tried first, provided it is

safe. It's what we all had to begin with and jumanity survived.

However, the advantage to drugs and the like is that, with the ones

that work, potency, and therefore effectiveness, has been increased,

which I think has contributed much to our longer life spans.

Tom

Administrator

It seems to insult human exsistance, there has to be a

more natural approach to healing and helping those in need.

Maybe it is just me

[Guest guest]

>

> I agree that natural healing ought to be tried first, provided it is

> safe. It's what we all had to begin with and jumanity survived.

> However, the advantage to drugs and the like is that, with the ones

> that work, potency, and therefore effectiveness, has been increased,

> which I think has contributed much to our longer life spans.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

Maybe I did not explain myself. The " disease " they are working on

recoding: Number #1 on the list, is Autism. This is being developed

to cure Autism by recoding the brain. They picked Autism because there

were known genes plus mutated genes that cluster in hot spots. That is

what is happening now. They are trying to cut all these therapy costs

by NTing the whole crop of ASD's

[Guest guest]

" Maybe I did not explain myself. The " disease " they are working on

recoding: Number #1 on the list, is Autism. This is being developed

to cure Autism by recoding the brain. They picked Autism because there

were known genes plus mutated genes that cluster in hot spots. That is

what is happening now. They are trying to cut all these therapy costs

by NTing the whole crop of ASD's "

Yep. Now you are experiencing the indignation Raven and I were feeling

a long time ago when we set out to combat all this.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

I think the nature of medicine is at a real crossroads. Currently, we are using drugs to treat disease and those can work but often have bad side effects. There is also a lot of money to be made with these medicines.

I see this as largely changing once the stem cell issue is sorted out. The current push is to use fetal stem cells, but more and more research is going into using one's own stems cells, such as from skin and other places. Those latter studies are showing promise.

In the future, it will very likely be a case of having diseased organs replaced with a cloned copy rather than treated by drugs. Since it is a clone, there would not be rejection issues and all the medicine needed for that. There is also the possibility of "Type O" universal implants. These would be disease free tissues in an organ like matrix with a blood tissue barrier to protect it from the host's immune system. Such "cybernetic" replacements could be factory made in a number of sizes and ready for implant, even as a temporary measure while cloned organs are grown. Complex organs like eyes will take longer, though there is some research on using stem cells to repair retina damage that shows promise.

If this happens, a great many medicines and treatments will no longer be necessary. If someone has liver disease, rather than drugs or waiting for a donor, they can get a new one within months or weeks. The surgery and cloning would be expensive, but overall, the quality of life for the patient would be better in the long run compared to traditional transplants or medicines.

Sadly, the distraction seems to be over fetal stem cells and whole body cloning. For fetal stem cells, while I'm not keen on the idea, I can see it as a temporary measure until adult stem cells can be used for treatment. However, as soon as the adult stem cell issues are solved, fetal stem cell research could be banned. Whole body cloning, on the other hand, is completely pointless. Just because a clone is made, it will not be the same person. There might be some tendencies, etc., but without the life experience and such, it won't be that person. It is a waste of time to bother with that when if all that research went into making organs we would be better off.

See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

[Guest guest]

This is how I see these things. What is being admitted is that

environmental agents are catayls for the mutation of genes when other

genes are found in suseptible people. the mutagens effect all manner

of development and effect behavior and anxiety, outside of the known

inherited genes. The scientific community instead of stopping the

production of environmental catalyst. (let's for a moment call this

an environmental pollution, seek instead to alter the human. thus

changing humanity as a canabalized set of desired genetics.

Instead of stopping industry from polluting our world and our persons

we will be changed to allow the generation of money to continue.

Organic food is not a conspiracy to increase the cost of food it is a

weapon in the flow of artifical humans.

This sounds more sci-fi all the time. That is what makes me sad that

humankind as a whole will be sacrificed to keep an economic sysem in

place and that the way for this is being peddaled by pharmicudical

companies.

I wanted false imposed mutagenic conditions to be brought back to

original through the means of what G'd had provided in this planet.

We choose to treat ourselves and our planet well. I do not want to

be forced to rely on people whom would alter those creations in a

synthetic way as to keep me a captive and imprision my offspring.

That is my indignation

[Guest guest]

This is how I see these things. What is being admitted is that

environmental agents are catayls for the mutation of genes when other

genes are found in suseptible people. the mutagens effect all manner

of development and effect behavior and anxiety, outside of the known

inherited genes. The scientific community instead of stopping the

production of environmental catalyst. (let's for a moment call this

an environmental pollution, seek instead to alter the human. thus

changing humanity as a canabalized set of desired genetics.

Instead of stopping industry from polluting our world and our persons

we will be changed to allow the generation of money to continue.

Organic food is not a conspiracy to increase the cost of food it is a

weapon in the flow of artifical humans.

This sounds more sci-fi all the time. That is what makes me sad that

humankind as a whole will be sacrificed to keep an economic sysem in

place and that the way for this is being peddaled by pharmicudical

companies.

I wanted false imposed mutagenic conditions to be brought back to

original through the means of what G'd had provided in this planet.

We choose to treat ourselves and our planet well. I do not want to

be forced to rely on people whom would alter those creations in a

synthetic way as to keep me a captive and imprision my offspring.

That is my indignation

[Guest guest]

Regarding animals:

Humans have been modifying animals genetically for thousands of years. The process was called selective breeding. Very simply, humans would save for breeding those animals with the most desirable traits. For sheep, the animals were selected for quality and quantity of wool rather than particularly size of the animal. Chickens have also been selected. Certain breeds are designed for meat purposes while others are good egg layers. A few are middle of the road and can be used for either purpose. Cow, pigs, dogs, even cats have been through this process and it continues today.

The problem we face today isn't how much we have modified the animals or even that we are doing directly to the genes in one go what might have taken centuries in the past. The problem is the genetic similarity. This problem has actually been building up through the centuries. The tighter the selection, the less diverse the genes in the population. This leaves them potentially more vulnerable to disease. The Mad Cow outbreaks in England could be related to this. As the herds are less diverse, it is easier for a disease to spread through them.

Not widely known is that many cows these days are artificially inseminated. In western Virginia, a major industry existed and probably still does. Certain families had very prized bulls and they made their fortunes selling the bull's seed. I kid you not when I say they made fortunes: certain bulls seed sold for $50,000 per straw! Some people even made money selling long after the bull itself was dead, drawing from frozen stock. Other farms have a prize bull that does most of the work. Still other rent a bull from a neighbor or a professional breeder. The effect is still the same. Many cows but few fathers, thus limiting genetic diversity.

This bottleneck has been building for a long time. Modern genetic manipulation is only different because it is faster. The animals are never intended to go back to the wild. They haven't been for millennia. If humans die out, so will most of those animals. That's just the way it is. Some, like dogs, cats and pigs, stand a good chance of surviving. Beef cattle also have a good chance, but milk cows not so much. Sheep, probably not either. Then again, if we manage to destroy ourselves, odds are that not much will be left anyway, so worrying about these couple of species is secondary.

See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

[Guest guest]

Have you also heard of the concern some have that the wild animals

from which domesticated farm animals are bred are going extinct

because of the wide distribution of a narrow line of genes. Therefore

those genes which allow heartiness to deal with climate changes have

been bred and altered out of animals in favor of those with high

production rates.

For instance, a breed of cattle that was selected for it's production

rate was entirely wiped out when a drought hit because they did not

have the heartiness to make it to a water source further away.

This goes back to the original concern of getting rid of humans that

don't 'fit' the typical set of genes... There's a reason we need to

have a variety of genes in the mix.

>

> This is how I see these things. What is being admitted is that

> environmental agents are catayls for the mutation of genes when other

> genes are found in suseptible people. the mutagens effect all manner

> of development and effect behavior and anxiety, outside of the known

> inherited genes. The scientific community instead of stopping the

> production of environmental catalyst. (let's for a moment call this

> an environmental pollution, seek instead to alter the human. thus

> changing humanity as a canabalized set of desired genetics.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Have you also heard of the concern some have that the wild animals

> from which domesticated farm animals are bred are going extinct

> because of the wide distribution of a narrow line of genes.

Therefore

> those genes which allow heartiness to deal with climate changes have

> been bred and altered out of animals in favor of those with high

> production rates.

>

I don't actually know of all the individual cases of human abuses but

I am aware that what is said in the bible that we are the caregivers

of this world is not what we are practing. I have to imagine that

there is a way to meet our own needs nad not kill and destroy

everything in our path including our fellow man. Our treatment of

animals is just as bad as our treatment of each other the two are

intertwined.

I am a vegan, however it is not that I do not care for animals, it is

simply that if man cannot care for himself surely he cannot aid any

other being, regardless of the words said. Acion even in the case of

avoidance and keeping to your standards is worthwhile.

I try to be mindful of my impact (i am not saying I succeed in every

case) nor do I feel my efforts are the greatest. I know others are

more mindful than myself but I do keep trying.

I am sorry that I cannot seem to escape this depression and I am not

arquing just a bit sad and lost.

[Guest guest]

" I wanted false imposed mutagenic conditions to be brought back to

original through the means of what G'd had provided in this planet. "

God will do it himself....or else he will wipe us all out. Most

prophesies in established religions say so.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

" Have you also heard of the concern some have that the wild animals

from which domesticated farm animals are bred are going extinct

because of the wide distribution of a narrow line of genes. "

Most people are not aware that today's sheep are raised to have more

hair per square inch than their natural counterparts, and unlike

natural sheep, they cannot shed their wool. There was the case of a

runaway sheep not too long ago that was found after an absence of

years. It had such a layer of wool on it that it could barely walk

and its face was almost completely obscured.

If humanity died off, sheep like this would die off with them

eventually, and probably after a heat wave if they had not been

sheared for a couple years.

See this article:

http://www.nbc4.com/news/3245869/detail.html

Super Shaggy Sheep Gets Sheared

'Shrek' Was On The Lamb

POSTED: 10:44 am EDT April 28, 2004

Shrek, a New Zealand Merino sheep, was sheared for the first time in

six years Wednesday.

The 9-year-old wooly wanderer had avoided shepherds and shearers.

For six years, he roamed before he was spotted in central Otago in

the heartland of the south island.

Barely recognizable under nearly a foot long fleece, it took the

skills of a well-known shepherd, Devine, to capture the

elusive beast.

Shearers said his coat would yield enough of highly prized merino

wool to make more than 20-large men suits.

World-famous shearing champion Fagan had the honor of cutting

the fleece, which is up for auction in New Zealand.

Proceeds from the sale of the wool will benefit the cancer fighting

children's charity, Cure Kids.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

" I am sorry that I cannot seem to escape this depression and I am not

arquing just a bit sad and lost. "

Sorry to hear that Mimi. We are here for you. (Although if Raven does

not reply, she is in Montreal on business.)

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

" I am sorry that I cannot seem to escape this depression and I am not

arquing just a bit sad and lost. "

Sorry to hear that Mimi. We are here for you. (Although if Raven does

not reply, she is in Montreal on business.)

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

> I don't actually know of all the individual cases of human abuses but

> I am aware that what is said in the bible that we are the caregivers

> of this world is not what we are practing. I have to imagine that

> there is a way to meet our own needs nad not kill and destroy

> everything in our path including our fellow man. Our treatment of

> animals is just as bad as our treatment of each other the two are

> intertwined.

**** snip ****

>

> I am sorry that I cannot seem to escape this depression and I am not

> arquing just a bit sad and lost.

I agree, I don't feel like I can do anything meaningful or powerful

enough to make change outside of my own decisions about what my family

eats and pass on the information I gather to those who will listen.

This is exactly why I am writing the book that I am - it gives me a

place to channel these emotions and thoughts.

My book deals with chimera, the combination of animals and humans and

the ethical system that was created to treat these creatures rightly.

At the Delphi Center where they are created and live the chimera are

taught that they are below humans and above animals. They go through

tests to discover where on this spectrum they fall in regards to

intelligence (Sapience) emotions/senses (Sentience) and morality

(Conscience). Each are endowed with rights in accordance to their

scores and their DNA combination.

It works well and they are happy, until they get a glimpse out of

their small protected world of the Delphi Center and discover that

many humans treat each other far worse than the donor animals at

Center... and the animals are no more better off than plants or

inanimate objects.

The horror I feel is almost unbearable when I read about sex

trafficking, child labor, torture, genocide and the state of the food

and agriculture system that does much worse to animals that we then

are expected to feed to our children! So I poor that passion into my

writing.

I don't know if my book will do well or make a difference, but at

least it's therapeutic. Though the research has opened my eyes wider

and given me even more inspiration to go organic and buy our eggs,

poultry and dairy from free range farms. We are also experimenting

with more bean dishes, but with 2 kids under 10 it's a struggle...