Jump to content
RemedySpot.com

Ibuprofen

Rate this topic


Guest guest

Recommended Posts

Guest guest

interesting. i did that search just to see. some say its probably ok in normal

doses but has not been tested!!! who would take that risk with a baby. some

say no. sheesh.

sltldab1@... wrote:

>Subject: Ibuprofen

>Click on URL. Also you can go to http://www.google.com type in ibuprofen,

>and then ANY condition that you wish after it. Such as ibuprofen

>breastfeeding, or ibuprofen pregnant, and so on. I wonder how asprin

>breastfeeding would come out on a search also? ltldab1@ juno.com

>

>http://www.nursespdr.com/members/database/ndrhtml/ibuprofen.html

>

>

>=======================================================

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Dear Char and Pharmacytechgirl,

Basically the mucosal lining is thinned out by ibuprofen. This causes

stomach acid to eat through the lining which is the start of a

gastric ulcer. An ulcer causes gastrointestinal bleeding which can

lead to death. Food will help absorb the ACID, NOT the ibuprofen.

Further if the food absorbed the ibuprofen, then there would be a

reduced therapeutic effect of the drug (ibuprofen). Absorption of

the ibuprofen is dependent upon the size and medium that it

breaksdown into. The villi and microvilli can only accept (absorb) a

particle size of approximately less than 50 micron. Food does not

allow for better absorption of ibuprofen. It would be absorbed with

or with out food. The reason Food is given with ibuprofen is to help

absorb or utilize the acid, so that it will not lay on the flesh of

the stomach. Simply put ibuprofen causes both a decrease in

swelling/inflammation and an increase in the penetration the lining

by acid, which leads to ulcers (GI upset or GI bleeding). The above

is a more layman's approach to the understanding, what follows is

more technical.

1)We need to begin with what condition Ibuprofin is used for.

Ibuprofin is used for inflammation, usually due to injury.

2)The process of Inflammation is that it causes arachidonic acid to

be made which causes I and II to be made (cyclooxygenase)

which leads to pain, vasoconstriction

3) I and II leads to the manufacturing of prostaglandins,

hormones which I will call PG I and PG II.

4) PGII leads to edema, redness, pain, warmth etc.

5) This leades to more inflammation.

6) More inflammed areas affect the nerves which inervate and get more

injury from the inflammation itself. If inflammation is not stopped

it becomes a disease in itself.

7) The cycle will continue, inflammation causes more arachidonic acid

> I andII >> pain/VC>>>PGI and II>>>>edema,redness,warmth>>>>>more

inflammation>>>>>more injury and/or nerve damage >>>arachidonic acid

cycle continues......

I causes Prostaglandin I to be made. Prostaglandin I causes

lining of the stomach to be thickened (or the viscosity increased.)

A thick mucosal lining helps to prevent acid longer and more

effectively. This is a good thing.

II causes Prostaglandin II to be made. Prostaglandin II increases

inflamation. This is a bad thing.

Ibuprofen inhibits or blocks BOTH I and II.

Now let us back up a bit. If Ibuprofen blocks or inhibits II then

no PG II, which means NO swelling and NO inflammation. And that means

no more arachidonic acid, no cycle. . It will stop the cycle of

inflammation. That is a good thing

Unfortunately inhibiting or blocking I blocks PGI, blocks the

ability of the prostaglandin I to thicken the mucosal lining, but the

lining will instead thin out or the viscosity of the stomach lining

will become reduced. By thinning out this lining, the acid that is

produced by digesting protein in the stomach will be able to 'eat'

through the mucosal lining faster and easier (because it is a thinner

lining). This will cause the acid to 'lay' upon the actual flesh of

the stomach. This acid will eat its way through the flesh of the

stomach and this is what is known as a gastric ulcer. This blocking

of the I and PGI is a bad thing.

So by taking Ibuprofen, blocking II/PGII one stops inflammation,

at the risk of getting gastric ulcers, by also blocking I and PGI.

About COX II Inhibitors, known as Celebrex and Viiox:

They do NOT inhibit BOTH I and II . They only inhibit II.

Therefore they only block PG II and there for reduce inflammation.

Because I and PGI are not blocked or inhibited, they exist to do

their job of keeping the viscosity or thickness of the mucosal lining

to protect the stomach from acid, thus preventing ulcers, which

prevents gastrointestinal bleeding.

I hope that this helps you to know why food should be given with

Ibuprofen. If you still have have any questions please feel free to

let me know.

Respectfully,

Jeanetta Mastron CPhT BS Chemistry

Pharmacy Program Director/Educator

Founder/Owner

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear All,

allow me to add and to clarify:

I would like to add that while food will help absorb the acid, the

food also will change the rate of absorption (slow it down) so it is

possible that thisis what Char from Washington was refering to.

Thanks Char,

Jeanetta

> Dear Char and Pharmacytechgirl,

>

> Basically the mucosal lining is thinned out by ibuprofen. This

causes

> stomach acid to eat through the lining which is the start of a

> gastric ulcer. An ulcer causes gastrointestinal bleeding which can

> lead to death. Food will help absorb the ACID, NOT the ibuprofen.

> Further if the food absorbed the ibuprofen, then there would be a

> reduced therapeutic effect of the drug (ibuprofen). Absorption of

> the ibuprofen is dependent upon the size and medium that it

> breaksdown into. The villi and microvilli can only accept (absorb)

a

> particle size of approximately less than 50 micron. Food does not

> allow for better absorption of ibuprofen. It would be absorbed with

> or with out food. The reason Food is given with ibuprofen is to

help

> absorb or utilize the acid, so that it will not lay on the flesh of

> the stomach. Simply put ibuprofen causes both a decrease in

> swelling/inflammation and an increase in the penetration the lining

> by acid, which leads to ulcers (GI upset or GI bleeding). The above

> is a more layman's approach to the understanding, what follows is

> more technical.

>

> 1)We need to begin with what condition Ibuprofin is used for.

> Ibuprofin is used for inflammation, usually due to injury.

> 2)The process of Inflammation is that it causes arachidonic acid to

> be made which causes I and II to be made (cyclooxygenase)

> which leads to pain, vasoconstriction

> 3) I and II leads to the manufacturing of prostaglandins,

> hormones which I will call PG I and PG II.

> 4) PGII leads to edema, redness, pain, warmth etc.

> 5) This leades to more inflammation.

> 6) More inflammed areas affect the nerves which inervate and get

more

> injury from the inflammation itself. If inflammation is not stopped

> it becomes a disease in itself.

> 7) The cycle will continue, inflammation causes more arachidonic

acid

> > I andII >> pain/VC>>>PGI and

II>>>>edema,redness,warmth>>>>>more

> inflammation>>>>>more injury and/or nerve damage >>>arachidonic

acid

> cycle continues......

>

> I causes Prostaglandin I to be made. Prostaglandin I causes

> lining of the stomach to be thickened (or the viscosity increased.)

> A thick mucosal lining helps to prevent acid longer and more

> effectively. This is a good thing.

> II causes Prostaglandin II to be made. Prostaglandin II

increases

> inflamation. This is a bad thing.

>

>

> Ibuprofen inhibits or blocks BOTH I and II.

> Now let us back up a bit. If Ibuprofen blocks or inhibits II

then

> no PG II, which means NO swelling and NO inflammation. And that

means

> no more arachidonic acid, no cycle. . It will stop the cycle of

> inflammation. That is a good thing

>

> Unfortunately inhibiting or blocking I blocks PGI, blocks the

> ability of the prostaglandin I to thicken the mucosal lining, but

the

> lining will instead thin out or the viscosity of the stomach lining

> will become reduced. By thinning out this lining, the acid that is

> produced by digesting protein in the stomach will be able to 'eat'

> through the mucosal lining faster and easier (because it is a

thinner

> lining). This will cause the acid to 'lay' upon the actual flesh of

> the stomach. This acid will eat its way through the flesh of the

> stomach and this is what is known as a gastric ulcer. This blocking

> of the I and PGI is a bad thing.

>

> So by taking Ibuprofen, blocking II/PGII one stops

inflammation,

> at the risk of getting gastric ulcers, by also blocking I and

PGI.

>

>

> About COX II Inhibitors, known as Celebrex and Viiox:

>

> They do NOT inhibit BOTH I and II . They only inhibit

II.

> Therefore they only block PG II and there for reduce inflammation.

> Because I and PGI are not blocked or inhibited, they exist to

do

> their job of keeping the viscosity or thickness of the mucosal

lining

> to protect the stomach from acid, thus preventing ulcers, which

> prevents gastrointestinal bleeding.

>

> I hope that this helps you to know why food should be given with

> Ibuprofen. If you still have have any questions please feel free to

> let me know.

>

> Respectfully,

>

> Jeanetta Mastron CPhT BS Chemistry

> Pharmacy Program Director/Educator

> Founder/Owner

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 years later...
Guest guest

I don't know all the dangers, but too much ibuprofen can put a strain on the

kidneys and digestive system. Personally, I've always avoided it because even

when I didn't know much about the dangers of conventional drugs, it never had a

beneficial effect and I'd always heard not to take too much.

I treat muscle aches with LOTS of heat and massage, and rest.

-Amy

ibuprofen

Guys what is the danger of Advil or other ibuprofen ? And what is a natural

substitute?

jen c

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

It's a drug. All drugs have side effects and risks. What are you wanting to

suppress with ibuprofen? Homeopathy works nicely on just 'bout anything! :)

Kay

ibuprofen

Guys what is the danger of Advil or other ibuprofen ? And what is a natural

substitute?

jen c

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

At 02:42 PM 5/16/2006 -0400, you wrote:

>Guys what is the danger of Advil or other ibuprofen ? And what is a natural

>substitute?

>

>jen c

Those drugs are very toxic to the liver

When you are ill your liver is working overtime to detox

Many articles in the archives

I will resend some

The right remedy will relive pain.

What specifically are you talking about?

Sheri

>

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

earthmysteriestours@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

Vaccine Dangers On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm

Reality of the Diseases & Treatment -

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm

Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 8 months later...

Hi Sara

Sorry to hear Tom not well. They sure know when to time these

things... is having another attack of bad bugs and yeast

AGAIN so feeling guilty about leaving him BUT its all in our kids

interests!!

We use Nurofen for Children which has ibuprofen in it. Comes with

syringe and v palitable. I know some use ibuprofen sachets from

Sainsburys. Cant get them in our local one but you may be lucky?

Good luck and see you soon!

Helen x

> Hello all

>

> There was a discussion on here recently about ibuprofen being good

for our

> kids. Tom's REALLY ill with a bad cough and cold (the day before

the

> conference!!!) and I wondered which brand people recommend as I

feel I

> should leave something for my mum to give him if need be.

>

> SARA

>

>

>

> Re: wow u guys u were

brilliant on

> meridian news!!!!

>

>

>

> Well done Mandi and Mel..absolutely fantastic..

>

> Hopefully they will come back and film you next year when archie

is

> much better.

>

> You all need to watch Tina and on Friday.

> That boy is going to recover.

>

> Joanne

>

> >

> > GREAT STUFF, HAVN'T SEEN THE WHOLE FEATURE YET ONLY A TRAILER ON

> LINE.

> >

> > THIS IS THE LINK HYPERLINK

> " http://www.meridiantv.com/news/ " http://www.meridian-tv.com/news/

> >

> > When it has been up loaded you have to click on tonights news on

> the

> > right hand side.

> >

> > The trailer is on lunchtime news, after the weather.

> >

> > I didn't find this it was DH, so I cant take any credit !

> >

> > See you tommorow ( Can't wait now!)

> >

> > Lara x

> >

>

>

>

>

> --

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.29/673 - Release Date:

06/02/2007

> 17:52

>

>

>

> --

> No virus found in this outgoing message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.29/673 - Release Date:

06/02/2007

> 17:52

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Helen,

thanks EVER so much for that, I really appreciate it. You know what I’ll

be racing around doing tomorrow morning before leaving for Bournemouth. SARA x

Re: wow u guys u were

brilliant on

> meridian news!!!!

>

>

>

> Well done Mandi and Mel..absolutely fantastic..

>

> Hopefully they will come back and film you next year when archie

is

> much better.

>

> You all need to watch Tina and on Friday.

> That boy is going to recover.

>

> Joanne

>

> >

> > GREAT STUFF, HAVN'T SEEN THE WHOLE FEATURE YET ONLY A TRAILER ON

> LINE.

> >

> > THIS IS THE LINK HYPERLINK

> " http://www.meridiantv.com/news/ " http://www.meridian-tv.com/news/

> >

> > When it has been up loaded you have to click on tonights news on

> the

> > right hand side.

> >

> > The trailer is on lunchtime news, after the weather.

> >

> > I didn't find this it was DH, so I cant take any credit !

> >

> > See you tommorow ( Can't wait now!)

> >

> > Lara x

> >

>

>

>

>

> --

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.29/673 - Release Date:

06/02/2007

> 17:52

>

>

>

> --

> No virus found in this outgoing message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.29/673 - Release Date:

06/02/2007

> 17:52

>

--

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.29/673 - Release Date: 06/02/2007 17:52

--

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.29/673 - Release Date: 06/02/2007 17:52

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Cheri:

I think there was some discussion on this topic a few months ago. You could try

searching the archives on the list for this. Hannah is 10 and she takes the

adult strength and we cut them in half so they are not so big. She can take up

to 300mg at a time and has no problem swallowing pills.

Beth (Hannah, 10, unspecified arthritis; asthma; gerd; migraines)

Sending prayers & happy thoughts,

Beth :-)

Ibuprofen

Where does everyone buy the Ibuprofen? Is there somewhere to buy it in bulk?

I've been buying the 8oz liquid bottles and they last about 9 or 10 days. Do you

think it's cheaper to buy the chewables for children?

Thanks,

Cheri

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Cheri,

I do not buy Ibuprofen as most in my house is allergic to it. But I do

know Walmart has the program for $4.00 per prescription. The choice of liquid

to chewables depends on if the child likes one better than the other. Or you

could switch it around.

Robbin

<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free

email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at

http://www.aol.com.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cheri - I don't know anything about the cost or dosage - as our daughter

takes naproxen. She gets a months supply and our insurance pays all but

$15.00. Since both drugs are in the same family - did your doctor advise you

about the possibility of stomach upset. It really helps to give the tummy

food

or milk when giving the anti-inflammatory. Our daughter ended up taking

Zantac and then when that didn't work we had to go Prevacid. We also started

watching the sodium intake that our daughter takes so as to avoid

complications with the kidneys and the anti-inflammatory. With methotrexate

and the

anti-inflammatory it is so important to gets fluids through out the day. Our

daughterr is allowed to have a bottle of water with her at school (specified in

her 504 plan). We really don't want her using water fountains at school -

while she is taking the methotrexate. A lot to learn but your life will get

back to normal - hope the meds help really soon and she is painfree. Sandi

Ken Hunter (Systemic 8 years old)

<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free

email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at

http://www.aol.com.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
Guest guest

Or my other thought as " Dr. Mom " is to have her up her steroids for a few days.

Hmmm, maybe I will call her and tell her to do that. As you can tell, I play

" doctor " much of the time. Our doc is used to it.

e

bound for london <boundforlondon@...> wrote:

Okay, I know my daughter is only supposed to take Tylenol, not

Ibuprofen because she takes MTX and Celebrex-along with all the others. But does

anyone know if it would be truly harmful to take for 3 days? She is struggling

these past few days-yesterday it was the wrist and elbow and today the neck. She

has used arm packs and tried massage etc (they are stiff etc). She has a

symphony concert Monday night and has been unable to play the past few days and

really wants to play on Monday-it could be her last concert. She is at 4 weeks

out from Remicade and this is when things raise their ugly head all the time.

So, I told her to continue with the heat and massage and to take the Ibuprofen

until after the concert. What do you think? Am I putting her at risk for

complications? The mom in me that wants her to have a successful concert told

her to do this, but the mom in me that worries is scared about what may happen.

She deserves to be able to have an awesome concert, to

be able

to play her instrument, she has worked hard all quarter to have this concert but

I also don't want her to have complications. So, help! (I know we aren't doctors

but I also know that we all have learned from the trenches)

e, mom to " joe " 20 poly + lupus (who really wants to play in her concert

but can't play right now because of this stinking disease!!!!)

---------------------------------

Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.

Try the free Beta.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Hi, e. That is a tough one. What did you end up deciding on - the

ibuprofen or the extra steroids? I think I might have upped the steroids

or Celebrex myself, just for the couple of days. How much steroids is

she on? The Celebrex should do the same as the ibuprofen so I might have

gone with that. I know what you mean about playing dr sometimes, we have

read so much about all of this that we do know quite a bit about some

things. I hope she is able to play tonight, Michele ( 19, spondy)

________________________________

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of bound for london

Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 10:24 PM

Subject: Ibuprofen

Okay, I know my daughter is only supposed to take Tylenol, not Ibuprofen

because she takes MTX and Celebrex-along with all the others. But does

anyone know if it would be truly harmful to take for 3 days? She is

struggling these past few days-yesterday it was the wrist and elbow and

today the neck. She has used arm packs and tried massage etc (they are

stiff etc). She has a symphony concert Monday night and has been unable

to play the past few days and really wants to play on Monday-it could be

her last concert. She is at 4 weeks out from Remicade and this is when

things raise their ugly head all the time. So, I told her to continue

with the heat and massage and to take the Ibuprofen until after the

concert. What do you think? Am I putting her at risk for complications?

The mom in me that wants her to have a successful concert told her to do

this, but the mom in me that worries is scared about what may happen.

She deserves to be able to have an awesome concert, to be able

to play her instrument, she has worked hard all quarter to have this

concert but I also don't want her to have complications. So, help! (I

know we aren't doctors but I also know that we all have learned from the

trenches)

e, mom to " joe " 20 poly + lupus (who really wants to play in her

concert but can't play right now because of this stinking disease!!!!)

---------------------------------

Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.

Try the free Beta.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

,

She decided to do the Ibuprofen, continue with heat and increase her sleep

(take a few naps). It worked. She has had such a hard time getting off the

steroids that she decided against that one (and she had already taken the

Ibuprofen when I called her back). She is down to 5mg of Prednisone and it took

so long to get her there she didn't want to go back up if there was another way

to help. She takes Celebrex 200mg twice a day which I think is the top dosage so

that is why I thought of the Ibuprofen. She really could use the Remicade every

4 weeks but can't do it with her current schedule and next quarter will be no

better. She has an appointment in a week and we are going to talk with her about

something else she may be able to do for those 2-3 weeks when the arthritis

regularly gets worse with this dosing schedule.

The good news is that she played. It still was not as easy as it should be but

the Ibuprofen gave her enough relief to move enough to be able to play. !!

It was a wonderful concert--beautiful selections and beautiful musicians. All in

all, a great night for those who were able to listen and watch.

It is hard to know what to do sometimes, especially when you just want to get

them over a hump, to let them do this certain thing. I'm just not certain if

there is anything else they can really add. She is currently taking MTX,

Celebrex, Remicade, Prednisone, Tylenol pretty regularly, Ultram plus a slew of

other things for the side effects etc. Plaquenil did not help and actually made

her worse. So many others did nothing or the side effects were awful.

e, mom to joe 20 poly + lupus (who got to play in her concert last

night--wahhoooo!!!)

" Tepper, Michele " <MTepper@...> wrote:

Hi, e. That is a tough one. What did you end up deciding on -

the

ibuprofen or the extra steroids? I think I might have upped the steroids

or Celebrex myself, just for the couple of days. How much steroids is

she on? The Celebrex should do the same as the ibuprofen so I might have

gone with that. I know what you mean about playing dr sometimes, we have

read so much about all of this that we do know quite a bit about some

things. I hope she is able to play tonight, Michele ( 19, spondy)

________________________________

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of bound for london

Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 10:24 PM

Subject: Ibuprofen

Okay, I know my daughter is only supposed to take Tylenol, not Ibuprofen

because she takes MTX and Celebrex-along with all the others. But does

anyone know if it would be truly harmful to take for 3 days? She is

struggling these past few days-yesterday it was the wrist and elbow and

today the neck. She has used arm packs and tried massage etc (they are

stiff etc). She has a symphony concert Monday night and has been unable

to play the past few days and really wants to play on Monday-it could be

her last concert. She is at 4 weeks out from Remicade and this is when

things raise their ugly head all the time. So, I told her to continue

with the heat and massage and to take the Ibuprofen until after the

concert. What do you think? Am I putting her at risk for complications?

The mom in me that wants her to have a successful concert told her to do

this, but the mom in me that worries is scared about what may happen.

She deserves to be able to have an awesome concert, to be able

to play her instrument, she has worked hard all quarter to have this

concert but I also don't want her to have complications. So, help! (I

know we aren't doctors but I also know that we all have learned from the

trenches)

e, mom to " joe " 20 poly + lupus (who really wants to play in her

concert but can't play right now because of this stinking disease!!!!)

---------------------------------

Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.

Try the free Beta.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Just curious, but my daughter takes MTX and Ibuprofen, and the doctor

seems to be fine with that. Is the disagreement between medications

in the Ibuprofen and the Celebrex, maybe? Or has anyone else been

told not to use Ibuprofen with MTX?

(Isabel, 3, pauci JRA)

> Hi, e. That is a tough one. What did you end up

deciding on - the

> ibuprofen or the extra steroids? I think I might have upped the

steroids

> or Celebrex myself, just for the couple of days. How much steroids

is

> she on? The Celebrex should do the same as the ibuprofen so I might

have

> gone with that. I know what you mean about playing dr sometimes, we

have

> read so much about all of this that we do know quite a bit about

some

> things. I hope she is able to play tonight, Michele ( 19,

spondy)

>

> ________________________________

>

> From: [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of bound for london

> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 10:24 PM

>

> Subject: Ibuprofen

>

> Okay, I know my daughter is only supposed to take Tylenol, not

Ibuprofen

> because she takes MTX and Celebrex-along with all the others. But

does

> anyone know if it would be truly harmful to take for 3 days? She is

> struggling these past few days-yesterday it was the wrist and elbow

and

> today the neck. She has used arm packs and tried massage etc (they

are

> stiff etc). She has a symphony concert Monday night and has been

unable

> to play the past few days and really wants to play on Monday-it

could be

> her last concert. She is at 4 weeks out from Remicade and this is

when

> things raise their ugly head all the time. So, I told her to

continue

> with the heat and massage and to take the Ibuprofen until after the

> concert. What do you think? Am I putting her at risk for

complications?

> The mom in me that wants her to have a successful concert told her

to do

> this, but the mom in me that worries is scared about what may

happen.

> She deserves to be able to have an awesome concert, to be able

> to play her instrument, she has worked hard all quarter to have this

> concert but I also don't want her to have complications. So, help!

(I

> know we aren't doctors but I also know that we all have learned

from the

> trenches)

>

> e, mom to " joe " 20 poly + lupus (who really wants to play in

her

> concert but can't play right now because of this stinking

disease!!!!)

>

> ---------------------------------

> Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.

> Try the free Beta.

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

The Ibuprofen and the MTX are fine. I probably misstated that somewhere. Sorry

for the confusion. Celebrex is a COX-2 type of NSAID while Ibuprofen is a

non-specific NSAID. She is at the max doseage for the Celebrex so adding

Ibuprofen is not a good idea with the risk of increased liver enzymes, stomach

bleed etc. So, the MTX is one that has the potential for liver problems, the

Celebrex does too, adding the third is not a wise idea. So, yes your daughter is

fine with MTX and Ibruprofen, just not adding another one. That is why they tell

you to take Tylenol for fever, aches etc not adding another NSAID. Hope that

makes sense.

e, mom to " joe " 20 poly + lupus

laurafinlinson <finnyla@...> wrote:

Just curious, but my daughter takes MTX and Ibuprofen, and the doctor

seems to be fine with that. Is the disagreement between medications

in the Ibuprofen and the Celebrex, maybe? Or has anyone else been

told not to use Ibuprofen with MTX?

(Isabel, 3, pauci JRA)

> Hi, e. That is a tough one. What did you end up

deciding on - the

> ibuprofen or the extra steroids? I think I might have upped the

steroids

> or Celebrex myself, just for the couple of days. How much steroids

is

> she on? The Celebrex should do the same as the ibuprofen so I might

have

> gone with that. I know what you mean about playing dr sometimes, we

have

> read so much about all of this that we do know quite a bit about

some

> things. I hope she is able to play tonight, Michele ( 19,

spondy)

>

> ________________________________

>

> From: [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of bound for london

> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 10:24 PM

>

> Subject: Ibuprofen

>

> Okay, I know my daughter is only supposed to take Tylenol, not

Ibuprofen

> because she takes MTX and Celebrex-along with all the others. But

does

> anyone know if it would be truly harmful to take for 3 days? She is

> struggling these past few days-yesterday it was the wrist and elbow

and

> today the neck. She has used arm packs and tried massage etc (they

are

> stiff etc). She has a symphony concert Monday night and has been

unable

> to play the past few days and really wants to play on Monday-it

could be

> her last concert. She is at 4 weeks out from Remicade and this is

when

> things raise their ugly head all the time. So, I told her to

continue

> with the heat and massage and to take the Ibuprofen until after the

> concert. What do you think? Am I putting her at risk for

complications?

> The mom in me that wants her to have a successful concert told her

to do

> this, but the mom in me that worries is scared about what may

happen.

> She deserves to be able to have an awesome concert, to be able

> to play her instrument, she has worked hard all quarter to have this

> concert but I also don't want her to have complications. So, help!

(I

> know we aren't doctors but I also know that we all have learned

from the

> trenches)

>

> e, mom to " joe " 20 poly + lupus (who really wants to play in

her

> concert but can't play right now because of this stinking

disease!!!!)

>

> ---------------------------------

> Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.

> Try the free Beta.

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

So glad she was able to play!! That is really wonderful. I can

understand her not wanting to go up on the prednisone.

FYI - was on 800 mgs of Celebrex a day before he went on the MTX.

He was about 14 and weighed around 165 pounds. I am not sure of joe's

size, perhaps she is smaller than that and taking more Celebrex might

not be possible. Luckily with the mtx, he was able to gradually go off

of the Celebrex at the time. Michele ( 19, spondy)

________________________________

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of bound for london

Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 2:36 PM

Subject: RE: Ibuprofen

,

She decided to do the Ibuprofen, continue with heat and increase her

sleep (take a few naps). It worked. She has had such a hard time getting

off the steroids that she decided against that one (and she had already

taken the Ibuprofen when I called her back). She is down to 5mg of

Prednisone and it took so long to get her there she didn't want to go

back up if there was another way to help. She takes Celebrex 200mg twice

a day which I think is the top dosage so that is why I thought of the

Ibuprofen. She really could use the Remicade every 4 weeks but can't do

it with her current schedule and next quarter will be no better. She has

an appointment in a week and we are going to talk with her about

something else she may be able to do for those 2-3 weeks when the

arthritis regularly gets worse with this dosing schedule.

The good news is that she played. It still was not as easy as it should

be but the Ibuprofen gave her enough relief to move enough to be able to

play. !! It was a wonderful concert--beautiful selections and

beautiful musicians. All in all, a great night for those who were able

to listen and watch.

It is hard to know what to do sometimes, especially when you just want

to get them over a hump, to let them do this certain thing. I'm just not

certain if there is anything else they can really add. She is currently

taking MTX, Celebrex, Remicade, Prednisone, Tylenol pretty regularly,

Ultram plus a slew of other things for the side effects etc. Plaquenil

did not help and actually made her worse. So many others did nothing or

the side effects were awful.

e, mom to joe 20 poly + lupus (who got to play in her concert

last night--wahhoooo!!!)

" Tepper, Michele " <MTepper@...

<mailto:MTepper%40ftportfolios.com> > wrote:

Hi, e. That is a tough one. What did you end up deciding on - the

ibuprofen or the extra steroids? I think I might have upped the steroids

or Celebrex myself, just for the couple of days. How much steroids is

she on? The Celebrex should do the same as the ibuprofen so I might have

gone with that. I know what you mean about playing dr sometimes, we have

read so much about all of this that we do know quite a bit about some

things. I hope she is able to play tonight, Michele ( 19, spondy)

________________________________

From: <mailto: %40>

[mailto: <mailto: %40> ]

On

Behalf Of bound for london

Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 10:24 PM

<mailto: %40>

Subject: Ibuprofen

Okay, I know my daughter is only supposed to take Tylenol, not Ibuprofen

because she takes MTX and Celebrex-along with all the others. But does

anyone know if it would be truly harmful to take for 3 days? She is

struggling these past few days-yesterday it was the wrist and elbow and

today the neck. She has used arm packs and tried massage etc (they are

stiff etc). She has a symphony concert Monday night and has been unable

to play the past few days and really wants to play on Monday-it could be

her last concert. She is at 4 weeks out from Remicade and this is when

things raise their ugly head all the time. So, I told her to continue

with the heat and massage and to take the Ibuprofen until after the

concert. What do you think? Am I putting her at risk for complications?

The mom in me that wants her to have a successful concert told her to do

this, but the mom in me that worries is scared about what may happen.

She deserves to be able to have an awesome concert, to be able

to play her instrument, she has worked hard all quarter to have this

concert but I also don't want her to have complications. So, help! (I

know we aren't doctors but I also know that we all have learned from the

trenches)

e, mom to " joe " 20 poly + lupus (who really wants to play in her

concert but can't play right now because of this stinking disease!!!!)

---------------------------------

Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.

Try the free Beta.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
Guest guest

We just got home from the rheumy and I asked her what to do in the we event of

the need something to get her over the hump when things just aren't right like

we had the issue with a couple weeks ago. She told us not to increase the

Celebrex because 200mg twice daily is the maximum dose. To continue with the

Ultram and the Tylenol as she has been doing but to up her Prednisone for a few

days to get her through. She has a hard time once Remicade hits 4-5 weeks

(currently at 6 wk cycle because of school/travel). So, she wants her to up the

pred until infusion and then back down. We are switching to a 5 wk cycle to see

if that will help. She doesn't want to increase the amount of Remicade because

it can put her in a Lupus flare. So, we will try that. If this does not work we

will add Sulfasalazine to the mix since Plaquenil caused a funky rash. But no on

the Ibuprofen (which I knew but didn't know what else to do)--puts her at too

high of risk for complications. Just thought I

would let you know our rheumys opinion. Thanks for the support. And hope

everyone is having a wonderful pain free day!

e, mom to joe 20 Poly + lupus

---------------------------------

We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love

(and love to hate): TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

--kristine,

i dont know if this is even possible, but could you go to remicade

every 4 weeks?? It really has made a huge difference with .

Even leaving it 5 weeks like i did the time before last was not good

for him. We have to stick to every 4 weeks.

How much remicade is she getting?? Are you doing MTX with the

remicade too?? Sorry about the prednisone uppage :o(

hugs Helen and (9,systemic)

- In , bound for london <boundforlondon@...>

wrote:

>

> We just got home from the rheumy and I asked her what to do in the

we event of the need something to get her over the hump when things

just aren't right like we had the issue with a couple weeks ago. She

told us not to increase the Celebrex because 200mg twice daily is the

maximum dose. To continue with the Ultram and the Tylenol as she has

been doing but to up her Prednisone for a few days to get her

through. She has a hard time once Remicade hits 4-5 weeks (currently

at 6 wk cycle because of school/travel). So, she wants her to up the

pred until infusion and then back down. We are switching to a 5 wk

cycle to see if that will help. She doesn't want to increase the

amount of Remicade because it can put her in a Lupus flare. So, we

will try that. If this does not work we will add Sulfasalazine to the

mix since Plaquenil caused a funky rash. But no on the Ibuprofen

(which I knew but didn't know what else to do)--puts her at too high

of risk for complications. Just thought I

> would let you know our rheumys opinion. Thanks for the support.

And hope everyone is having a wonderful pain free day!

>

> e, mom to joe 20 Poly + lupus

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love

> (and love to hate): TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Helen,

4 weeks would be just too hard. She is up at school which is 2.5 to 3.5 hours

for me to drive to pick her up. Then I drive her back down to Seattle, which is

at least 2 hours depending on time of day/traffic to hospital. She has her

infusion over several hours and then I drive the 2+ hours to take her to school.

Then I drive home, another 2.5+ hours. We have to work around her school

schedule, so we are switching from Fridays to Thursdays this quarter. And then

she generally is wiped out and sleeps for a day or more but this quarter she has

to go to class the next day from 8-4, so I will be saying lots of prayers for

her to have the energy to go to class. We can't move it closer to her because of

insurance and nowhere to have it done at.

I can't remember right now what her dosage is, but because of her Lupus with

the JRA they don't want to increase the amount of medicine. I need to do some

research there. She has never been off the Pred since she started in 2001 so for

her the pred is a regular part of life. She will just increase to daily and then

drop back to every other day after infusion. We're hoping it works. Of course,

she looked good today, felt good in clinic --been home relaxing all week--then

by about dinner her pain was horrid and she used every resource she had so that

she could go out on a date. (the weather turned cold and wet and the more it

changed the more she hurt). Oh and yes she does max dose MTX too.

e

hburger64 <hburger64@...> wrote:

--kristine,

i dont know if this is even possible, but could you go to remicade

every 4 weeks?? It really has made a huge difference with .

Even leaving it 5 weeks like i did the time before last was not good

for him. We have to stick to every 4 weeks.

How much remicade is she getting?? Are you doing MTX with the

remicade too?? Sorry about the prednisone uppage :o(

hugs Helen and (9,systemic)

- In , bound for london <boundforlondon@...>

wrote:

>

> We just got home from the rheumy and I asked her what to do in the

we event of the need something to get her over the hump when things

just aren't right like we had the issue with a couple weeks ago. She

told us not to increase the Celebrex because 200mg twice daily is the

maximum dose. To continue with the Ultram and the Tylenol as she has

been doing but to up her Prednisone for a few days to get her

through. She has a hard time once Remicade hits 4-5 weeks (currently

at 6 wk cycle because of school/travel). So, she wants her to up the

pred until infusion and then back down. We are switching to a 5 wk

cycle to see if that will help. She doesn't want to increase the

amount of Remicade because it can put her in a Lupus flare. So, we

will try that. If this does not work we will add Sulfasalazine to the

mix since Plaquenil caused a funky rash. But no on the Ibuprofen

(which I knew but didn't know what else to do)--puts her at too high

of risk for complications. Just thought I

> would let you know our rheumys opinion. Thanks for the support.

And hope everyone is having a wonderful pain free day!

>

> e, mom to joe 20 Poly + lupus

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love

> (and love to hate): TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

--e,

Im sorry that its so hard to get to joes infusions. That makes for

such a LONG for you. Its so hard trying to get the right combo that

also fits in with everyday life too. Any chance of doing the

infusions on a saturday?? Nick has had a few on a saturday at the

Childrens Hosptial here, the only problem was that it was taking 2

hours plus for the remicade to come up from the pharmacy, so we

switched back to fridays.

Good luck finding a senerio that works for you all....

hugs Helen and

P.s Ill be interested to know why higher doses of remicade could

flare her lupus. let us know what you find out.

- In , bound for london <boundforlondon@...>

wrote:

>

> Helen,

>

> 4 weeks would be just too hard. She is up at school which is 2.5

to 3.5 hours for me to drive to pick her up. Then I drive her back

down to Seattle, which is at least 2 hours depending on time of

day/traffic to hospital. She has her infusion over several hours and

then I drive the 2+ hours to take her to school. Then I drive home,

another 2.5+ hours. We have to work around her school schedule, so we

are switching from Fridays to Thursdays this quarter. And then she

generally is wiped out and sleeps for a day or more but this quarter

she has to go to class the next day from 8-4, so I will be saying

lots of prayers for her to have the energy to go to class. We can't

move it closer to her because of insurance and nowhere to have it

done at.

>

> I can't remember right now what her dosage is, but because of her

Lupus with the JRA they don't want to increase the amount of

medicine. I need to do some research there. She has never been off

the Pred since she started in 2001 so for her the pred is a regular

part of life. She will just increase to daily and then drop back to

every other day after infusion. We're hoping it works. Of course, she

looked good today, felt good in clinic --been home relaxing all week--

then by about dinner her pain was horrid and she used every resource

she had so that she could go out on a date. (the weather turned cold

and wet and the more it changed the more she hurt). Oh and yes she

does max dose MTX too.

>

> e

>

> hburger64 <hburger64@...> wrote:

> --kristine,

>

> i dont know if this is even possible, but could you go to remicade

> every 4 weeks?? It really has made a huge difference with .

> Even leaving it 5 weeks like i did the time before last was not

good

> for him. We have to stick to every 4 weeks.

>

> How much remicade is she getting?? Are you doing MTX with the

> remicade too?? Sorry about the prednisone uppage :o(

>

> hugs Helen and (9,systemic)

>

> - In , bound for london <boundforlondon@>

> wrote:

> >

> > We just got home from the rheumy and I asked her what to do in

the

> we event of the need something to get her over the hump when things

> just aren't right like we had the issue with a couple weeks ago.

She

> told us not to increase the Celebrex because 200mg twice daily is

the

> maximum dose. To continue with the Ultram and the Tylenol as she

has

> been doing but to up her Prednisone for a few days to get her

> through. She has a hard time once Remicade hits 4-5 weeks

(currently

> at 6 wk cycle because of school/travel). So, she wants her to up

the

> pred until infusion and then back down. We are switching to a 5 wk

> cycle to see if that will help. She doesn't want to increase the

> amount of Remicade because it can put her in a Lupus flare. So, we

> will try that. If this does not work we will add Sulfasalazine to

the

> mix since Plaquenil caused a funky rash. But no on the Ibuprofen

> (which I knew but didn't know what else to do)--puts her at too

high

> of risk for complications. Just thought I

> > would let you know our rheumys opinion. Thanks for the support.

> And hope everyone is having a wonderful pain free day!

> >

> > e, mom to joe 20 Poly + lupus

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love

> > (and love to hate): TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

> >

> >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

e - Have you looked into getting a home infusion service give Jo the

Remicade. We are looking into doing that for Caroline, although I don't know if

her rheumy will agree... It's an option if you can find one...

Is she still on Cyclosporine? Caroline is on the max dose of Cyclosporine and we

did see a slight improvement when we went up to the max. Caroline is also on

300mg of Remicade every four weeks and I see a major difference.

Alia and Caroline, age 5, poly and uveitis

Re: Ibuprofen

Helen,

4 weeks would be just too hard. She is up at school which is 2.5 to 3.5 hours

for me to drive to pick her up. Then I drive her back down to Seattle, which is

at least 2 hours depending on time of day/traffic to hospital. She has her

infusion over several hours and then I drive the 2+ hours to take her to school.

Then I drive home, another 2.5+ hours. We have to work around her school

schedule, so we are switching from Fridays to Thursdays this quarter. And then

she generally is wiped out and sleeps for a day or more but this quarter she has

to go to class the next day from 8-4, so I will be saying lots of prayers for

her to have the energy to go to class. We can't move it closer to her because of

insurance and nowhere to have it done at.

I can't remember right now what her dosage is, but because of her Lupus with the

JRA they don't want to increase the amount of medicine. I need to do some

research there. She has never been off the Pred since she started in 2001 so for

her the pred is a regular part of life. She will just increase to daily and then

drop back to every other day after infusion. We're hoping it works. Of course,

she looked good today, felt good in clinic --been home relaxing all week--then

by about dinner her pain was horrid and she used every resource she had so that

she could go out on a date. (the weather turned cold and wet and the more it

changed the more she hurt). Oh and yes she does max dose MTX too.

e

hburger64 <hburger64@...> wrote:

--kristine,

i dont know if this is even possible, but could you go to remicade

every 4 weeks?? It really has made a huge difference with .

Even leaving it 5 weeks like i did the time before last was not good

for him. We have to stick to every 4 weeks.

How much remicade is she getting?? Are you doing MTX with the

remicade too?? Sorry about the prednisone uppage :o(

hugs Helen and (9,systemic)

- In , bound for london <boundforlondon@...>

wrote:

>

> We just got home from the rheumy and I asked her what to do in the

we event of the need something to get her over the hump when things

just aren't right like we had the issue with a couple weeks ago. She

told us not to increase the Celebrex because 200mg twice daily is the

maximum dose. To continue with the Ultram and the Tylenol as she has

been doing but to up her Prednisone for a few days to get her

through. She has a hard time once Remicade hits 4-5 weeks (currently

at 6 wk cycle because of school/travel). So, she wants her to up the

pred until infusion and then back down. We are switching to a 5 wk

cycle to see if that will help. She doesn't want to increase the

amount of Remicade because it can put her in a Lupus flare. So, we

will try that. If this does not work we will add Sulfasalazine to the

mix since Plaquenil caused a funky rash. But no on the Ibuprofen

(which I knew but didn't know what else to do)--puts her at too high

of risk for complications. Just thought I

> would let you know our rheumys opinion. Thanks for the support.

And hope everyone is having a wonderful pain free day!

>

> e, mom to joe 20 Poly + lupus

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love

> (and love to hate): TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Alia,

That is a good idea but I am sure they won't do that. I asked about getting

her infusion on a Saturday but was told that they don't do them on Saturday

because if she has a reaction then there will be nobody around to help since the

docs aren't in clinic on Saturday.

She does not take Cyclosporine. I don't think she has tried that one. Glad to

hear Caroline is doing better. They may add sulsasalazine to her regimen in 10

weeks. It depends on how she does with the 5 week cycle.

e, mom to " joe " 20 poly + lupus

aliaalan@... wrote:

e - Have you looked into getting a home infusion service give

Jo the Remicade. We are looking into doing that for Caroline, although I don't

know if her rheumy will agree... It's an option if you can find one...

Is she still on Cyclosporine? Caroline is on the max dose of Cyclosporine and we

did see a slight improvement when we went up to the max. Caroline is also on

300mg of Remicade every four weeks and I see a major difference.

Alia and Caroline, age 5, poly and uveitis

Re: Ibuprofen

Helen,

4 weeks would be just too hard. She is up at school which is 2.5 to 3.5 hours

for me to drive to pick her up. Then I drive her back down to Seattle, which is

at least 2 hours depending on time of day/traffic to hospital. She has her

infusion over several hours and then I drive the 2+ hours to take her to school.

Then I drive home, another 2.5+ hours. We have to work around her school

schedule, so we are switching from Fridays to Thursdays this quarter. And then

she generally is wiped out and sleeps for a day or more but this quarter she has

to go to class the next day from 8-4, so I will be saying lots of prayers for

her to have the energy to go to class. We can't move it closer to her because of

insurance and nowhere to have it done at.

I can't remember right now what her dosage is, but because of her Lupus with the

JRA they don't want to increase the amount of medicine. I need to do some

research there. She has never been off the Pred since she started in 2001 so for

her the pred is a regular part of life. She will just increase to daily and then

drop back to every other day after infusion. We're hoping it works. Of course,

she looked good today, felt good in clinic --been home relaxing all week--then

by about dinner her pain was horrid and she used every resource she had so that

she could go out on a date. (the weather turned cold and wet and the more it

changed the more she hurt). Oh and yes she does max dose MTX too.

e

hburger64 <hburger64@...> wrote:

--kristine,

i dont know if this is even possible, but could you go to remicade

every 4 weeks?? It really has made a huge difference with .

Even leaving it 5 weeks like i did the time before last was not good

for him. We have to stick to every 4 weeks.

How much remicade is she getting?? Are you doing MTX with the

remicade too?? Sorry about the prednisone uppage :o(

hugs Helen and (9,systemic)

- In , bound for london <boundforlondon@...>

wrote:

>

> We just got home from the rheumy and I asked her what to do in the

we event of the need something to get her over the hump when things

just aren't right like we had the issue with a couple weeks ago. She

told us not to increase the Celebrex because 200mg twice daily is the

maximum dose. To continue with the Ultram and the Tylenol as she has

been doing but to up her Prednisone for a few days to get her

through. She has a hard time once Remicade hits 4-5 weeks (currently

at 6 wk cycle because of school/travel). So, she wants her to up the

pred until infusion and then back down. We are switching to a 5 wk

cycle to see if that will help. She doesn't want to increase the

amount of Remicade because it can put her in a Lupus flare. So, we

will try that. If this does not work we will add Sulfasalazine to the

mix since Plaquenil caused a funky rash. But no on the Ibuprofen

(which I knew but didn't know what else to do)--puts her at too high

of risk for complications. Just thought I

> would let you know our rheumys opinion. Thanks for the support.

And hope everyone is having a wonderful pain free day!

>

> e, mom to joe 20 Poly + lupus

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love

> (and love to hate): TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

> > >

> > > We just got home from the rheumy and I asked her what to do in

> the

> > we event of the need something to get her over the hump when

things

> > just aren't right like we had the issue with a couple weeks ago.

> She

> > told us not to increase the Celebrex because 200mg twice daily

is

> the

> > maximum dose. To continue with the Ultram and the Tylenol as she

> has

> > been doing but to up her Prednisone for a few days to get her

> > through. She has a hard time once Remicade hits 4-5 weeks

> (currently

> > at 6 wk cycle because of school/travel). So, she wants her to up

> the

> > pred until infusion and then back down. We are switching to a 5

wk

> > cycle to see if that will help. She doesn't want to increase the

> > amount of Remicade because it can put her in a Lupus flare. So,

we

> > will try that. If this does not work we will add Sulfasalazine

to

> the

> > mix since Plaquenil caused a funky rash. But no on the Ibuprofen

> > (which I knew but didn't know what else to do)--puts her at too

> high

> > of risk for complications. Just thought I

> > > would let you know our rheumys opinion. Thanks for the

support.

> > And hope everyone is having a wonderful pain free day!

> > >

> > > e, mom to joe 20 Poly + lupus

> > >

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love

> > > (and love to hate): TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

> > >

> > >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...