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Re scrupe: my son's OCD is scrupe, falls in the severe range. I've

gone thru a bit of it myself (from teen years) but not anywhere near

what OCD can cause.

For me: I didn't grow up going to church. But avoiding things like

reading the Bible or going in a church, etc., helped me. Now - my

son, , began going to church and I went with him (to the

church service, not the Sunday school part) and since 's

scrupe began - and so many thoughts about it//scrupe, talking

about it, etc. - mine popped back up some. And due partly to

my " avoidance " I've always shrugged it off pretty easily, though I

can " cringe " at some thoughts.

: He didn't grow up going to church either (since I didn't

go) but did attend some things; like his AWANAS (if I recall the name

right) was through a church, he very occasionally went to a church

event maybe (my oldest son went to church until maybe end of 6th

grade, he quit on his own). Anyway, 's scrupulosity began

BEFORE attending church. He began reading the Bible before bed early

in high school. Fine with me. But I did worry about OCD (which he'd

had since 6th grade) taking hold of this, causing scrupe to pop up.

And in 11th grade it did.

We actually talked 2 or 3 times to a coworker's husband who was a

minister after 's scrupe began. was taking some

things a bit too literally, not all, some. Anyway that helped. But

he wanted to begin to attend church, I thought it might help

straighten some " misconceptions " (? good word?) out. Plus with his

Aspergers Syndrome, he's never really had a social life at all. And

some nice teens (I knew from his high school band and other) attended

the church he now goes too. It was great for opening things up for

him, giving him somewhat of a social life, the youth group there and

all.

His scrupulosity is better in areas, some things eased up. But the

constant " bad thoughts " (cursing God or whatever; he won't talk about

it much) are still there; sure he's committed the unpardonable sin,

whatever, no chance of Heaven, etc. But he still attends EVERYthing

at church, won't miss a day, goes to youth group things, etc. He

seems anxious if I mention missing anything and I don't know if

that's an OCD thing, he says it's because he enjoys going, which he

does (still no social life outside church or college). I, on the

other hand, have eased up on attending myself. I try to go about

once a month now. It's not because of scrupulosity that I've

lessened it, I was never enthused about going or whatever (having

grown up not going) but I do think it has helped my own bit of re-

emerging thoughts to ease up by not sitting in church.

I think if stopped -- well, he'd torture himself, probably

think it's adding to his sins. The other side being, everyone there

loves , is great to him, he enjoys *that* side of it, not just

going because he feels he should.

I guess it differs with people. Reading the Bible or sitting in a

church or my thinking so much about " wonder what 's

thinking? " , LOL, can trigger mine. Not reading the actual Bible or

sitting in a church or sitting in a sermon helps mine not be

triggered. I can read Bible stuff online, it won't bother me so much

as a Bible in my hands. I think 's scrupe isn't triggered

like mine (holding Bible, being in a church...) and he will have

thoughts - and does - ANYwhere, 24/7. And I've always realized that

my thoughts are just that - thoughts - and still can't grasp

that concept as to his own problems.

Okay I rambled, jumped around, LOL, sorry. You can argue going to

church is good exposure (ERP), that's what I tell myself when I'm

there sometimes. :)

Well I hope Leigh Anne and all can slowly move towards going back to

church. With OCD, I think once you make progress in some

behaviors/thoughts, a lot of the other behaviors (not all) can be

more easily handled/overcome. Can some of you do church events or

read Bible or stories at home but not attend? You might work on a

bit of exposure at home with Bible stories or something, maybe just

talking/telling one?

>

> Hey and everyone,

> Somehow I missed out on the whole conversation, but I got bits and

pieces of some of you talking about your diagnosed child having to

quit going to church. We are in the middle of this one right now

with our seven year old son. We haven't made him go in months

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Of my 3 kids with ocd, one cannot attend church at all, and two have

difficulty off and on. Though my son primarily had trouble with the

crowds and contamination aspect (he also cannot do anything in

proximity to his brother who is " contaminated " so cannot sit near him

in van or pew) it then turns into a feeling of unworthiness b/c of

missed attendance, which then compounds the obsessiog and avoidance.

This is similar for my two daughters as well (not attending for

various ocd reasons-but then some scrupulosity sets in over missing

mass) but not as severe/consistent.

My kids without ocd do not have these problems with church, so I can

say it is not church/religion that causes it (as some might suggest

and pointing to guilt that thinking about sin might initiate and how

that is a " bad " thing about religion for kids). It is the ocd not the

religion.

We also have had the struggles on Sunday, it turning into a day of

heightened ocd behaviors and heightened stress for everyone, so that

we don't have that family togetherness any more (finally just gave up

on enforcing everyone to attend b/c the absence is not for discipline

or defiance reasons- though my husband tends to see it this way and

that causes alot of strain-he thinks I caved in, but I just cannot do

mass that way). It affects you in the community as well, how other

parishioners who know you wonder why your kids are now missing, maybe

thinking it is a teen rebellion thing or something...

I figure if the ocd gets properly treated eventually, then some of

these things will fall back into place. I just cannot control all the

ways it affects us.

nancy grace

> > >

> > > I am meeting with my sons' psychiatrist on Thursday to discuss

next

> > > moves with his medications. So far, he appears to be med

resistant

> > > and has tried 3 different SSRI's, over a 2 year period, with no

> > > notable difference. He is currently on Celexa (and yes, appears

to

> > > have gained weight... probably about 10 lbs.) and she wants to

> > > introduce the tranquilizer Buspiron to augment the Celexa. She

says

> > > it is a non-addicting, low side effect tranquilizer.

> > >

> > > The idea of giving him this has been hard for me to take. I

have just

> > > read in an old post that there is an OTC B Vitamin called

Inositol

> > > that has been used in augmentation as well, but the post was

written 3

> > > years ago, and I would like to find someone who has gone this

route

> > > more recently.

> > >

> > > I am currently reading Dr. March's book on pediatric OCD. It was

> > > written in 2007, and appears to be very current. If I am

reading it

> > > correctly, he thinks that there should be no other med category

for

> > > OCD treatment other than an SSRI. I have read in other places

that

> > > Buspiron should only be used for Generalized Anxiety Disorder

> > > treatment and not OCD. I am completely overwhelmed with making

these

> > > decisions and thought I would reach out to the group for help.

> > >

> > > Thanks in advance.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> > Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> > http://www.. com/r/hs

> >

> >

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Sorry Leigh - it's late and I'm tired and I am stuck on your " prisoner of OCD "

line and having a little giggle. I am having visions of all these OCD moms

behind bars - do you think we would look better in the orange jump suits or the

traditional stripes??

Joyce in Seattle

--------- Re: Anyone tried to augment their SSRI with

Buspiron?

> or Inositol?

>

> lol,

>

> good one

>

>

> > >

> > > I am meeting with my sons' psychiatrist on Thursday to discuss next

> > > moves with his medications. So far, he appears to be med resistant

> > > and has tried 3 different SSRI's, over a 2 year period, with no

> > > notable difference. He is currently on Celexa (and yes, appears to

> > > have gained weight... probably about 10 lbs.) and she wants to

> > > introduce the tranquilizer Buspiron to augment the Celexa. She says

> > > it is a non-addicting, low side effect tranquilizer.

> > >

> > > The idea of giving him this has been hard for me to take. I have just

> > > read in an old post that there is an OTC B Vitamin called Inositol

> > > that has been used in augmentation as well, but the post was written 3

> > > years ago, and I would like to find someone who has gone this route

> > > more recently.

> > >

> > > I am currently reading Dr. March's book on pediatric OCD. It was

> > > written in 2007, and appears to be very current. If I am reading it

> > > correctly, he thinks that there should be no other med category for

> > > OCD treatment other than an SSRI. I have read in other places that

> > > Buspiron should only be used for Generalized Anxiety Disorder

> > > treatment and not OCD. I am completely overwhelmed with making these

> > > decisions and thought I would reach out to the group for help.

> > >

> > > Thanks in advance.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> > Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> > http://www.. com/r/hs

> >

> >

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I vote vertical stripes. They are more slimming :-D

BJ

> > > >

> > > > I am meeting with my sons' psychiatrist on Thursday to discuss

next

> > > > moves with his medications. So far, he appears to be med resistant

> > > > and has tried 3 different SSRI's, over a 2 year period, with no

> > > > notable difference. He is currently on Celexa (and yes, appears to

> > > > have gained weight... probably about 10 lbs.) and she wants to

> > > > introduce the tranquilizer Buspiron to augment the Celexa. She

says

> > > > it is a non-addicting, low side effect tranquilizer.

> > > >

> > > > The idea of giving him this has been hard for me to take. I

have just

> > > > read in an old post that there is an OTC B Vitamin called Inositol

> > > > that has been used in augmentation as well, but the post was

written 3

> > > > years ago, and I would like to find someone who has gone this

route

> > > > more recently.

> > > >

> > > > I am currently reading Dr. March's book on pediatric OCD. It was

> > > > written in 2007, and appears to be very current. If I am

reading it

> > > > correctly, he thinks that there should be no other med

category for

> > > > OCD treatment other than an SSRI. I have read in other places that

> > > > Buspiron should only be used for Generalized Anxiety Disorder

> > > > treatment and not OCD. I am completely overwhelmed with making

these

> > > > decisions and thought I would reach out to the group for help.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks in advance.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> > > Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> > > http://www.. com/r/hs

> > >

> > >

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I wish I had some answers or advice to share, Leigh Anne, but I don't.

I will say, I'm sorry for what you are going through, and I understand.

Our son started melting down about God when he was 5. I had no idea he

even had OCD (at that time) and had never heard of scrupulosity. I

just knew that reading from the Bible freaked him out, and going to

church became impossible.

As we've progressed through the years and found out what we were

dealing with (OCD), I've been afraid to take him to church. I worry

all of that old stuff will just flare right back up. So, I've opted

to avoid. I'm not sure if that's the best thing to do, but it kept

the peace.

Then, to make matters worse, you run into people from church who have

no idea what you are dealing with and as you try to share, they decide

your child is possessed, and psychology and medication is evil.

<sigh> I'm not saying all have been that way, but there always seems

to be a few in the crowd. If they only knew. If they could walk in

our shoes for one day, I'm sure they would change their minds. I

assure you they've never seen their child suffer the way most of us

have. So, instead of sharing, you end up feeling ashamed of something

you shouldn't have to feel ashamed of, and you hide it so you and your

child will not be judged harshly. Nobody would make you feel that way

if your child had diabetes. Okay. . .Just venting a little here, but

I'd bet some of you know exactly what I'm talking about because you've

experienced it too.

I just hope that someday our son can have a relationship with God,

without fear.

BJ

> > >

> > > I am meeting with my sons' psychiatrist on Thursday to discuss next

> > > moves with his medications. So far, he appears to be med resistant

> > > and has tried 3 different SSRI's, over a 2 year period, with no

> > > notable difference. He is currently on Celexa (and yes, appears to

> > > have gained weight... probably about 10 lbs.) and she wants to

> > > introduce the tranquilizer Buspiron to augment the Celexa. She says

> > > it is a non-addicting, low side effect tranquilizer.

> > >

> > > The idea of giving him this has been hard for me to take. I have

just

> > > read in an old post that there is an OTC B Vitamin called Inositol

> > > that has been used in augmentation as well, but the post was

written 3

> > > years ago, and I would like to find someone who has gone this route

> > > more recently.

> > >

> > > I am currently reading Dr. March's book on pediatric OCD. It was

> > > written in 2007, and appears to be very current. If I am reading it

> > > correctly, he thinks that there should be no other med category for

> > > OCD treatment other than an SSRI. I have read in other places that

> > > Buspiron should only be used for Generalized Anxiety Disorder

> > > treatment and not OCD. I am completely overwhelmed with making these

> > > decisions and thought I would reach out to the group for help.

> > >

> > > Thanks in advance.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> > Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> > http://www.. com/r/hs

> >

> >

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Hi Leigh Ann:

We had a short bout of church refusal. I resolved it by making him

go to church with me and we would sit in the parking lot. For the

whole service. Then we would go in to the foyer. Fortunately, at

our church, the foyer is a cafe with tvs that show the service. So

we would sit there together at a table and I would watch the

service. On the second trip to the foyer, a friend of his came by

and he was so bored that he went off to kids area. The only time

this returns now is if we miss a few weeks. Hope it helps.

mm

> > >

> > > I am meeting with my sons' psychiatrist on Thursday to discuss

next

> > > moves with his medications. So far, he appears to be med

resistant

> > > and has tried 3 different SSRI's, over a 2 year period, with no

> > > notable difference. He is currently on Celexa (and yes, appears

to

> > > have gained weight... probably about 10 lbs.) and she wants to

> > > introduce the tranquilizer Buspiron to augment the Celexa. She

says

> > > it is a non-addicting, low side effect tranquilizer.

> > >

> > > The idea of giving him this has been hard for me to take. I

have just

> > > read in an old post that there is an OTC B Vitamin called

Inositol

> > > that has been used in augmentation as well, but the post was

written 3

> > > years ago, and I would like to find someone who has gone this

route

> > > more recently.

> > >

> > > I am currently reading Dr. March's book on pediatric OCD. It was

> > > written in 2007, and appears to be very current. If I am

reading it

> > > correctly, he thinks that there should be no other med category

for

> > > OCD treatment other than an SSRI. I have read in other places

that

> > > Buspiron should only be used for Generalized Anxiety Disorder

> > > treatment and not OCD. I am completely overwhelmed with making

these

> > > decisions and thought I would reach out to the group for help.

> > >

> > > Thanks in advance.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> > Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> > http://www.. com/r/hs

> >

> >

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Share on other sites

Hi Leigh Ann:

We had a short bout of church refusal. I resolved it by making him

go to church with me and we would sit in the parking lot. For the

whole service. Then we would go in to the foyer. Fortunately, at

our church, the foyer is a cafe with tvs that show the service. So

we would sit there together at a table and I would watch the

service. On the second trip to the foyer, a friend of his came by

and he was so bored that he went off to kids area. The only time

this returns now is if we miss a few weeks. Hope it helps.

mm

> > >

> > > I am meeting with my sons' psychiatrist on Thursday to discuss

next

> > > moves with his medications. So far, he appears to be med

resistant

> > > and has tried 3 different SSRI's, over a 2 year period, with no

> > > notable difference. He is currently on Celexa (and yes, appears

to

> > > have gained weight... probably about 10 lbs.) and she wants to

> > > introduce the tranquilizer Buspiron to augment the Celexa. She

says

> > > it is a non-addicting, low side effect tranquilizer.

> > >

> > > The idea of giving him this has been hard for me to take. I

have just

> > > read in an old post that there is an OTC B Vitamin called

Inositol

> > > that has been used in augmentation as well, but the post was

written 3

> > > years ago, and I would like to find someone who has gone this

route

> > > more recently.

> > >

> > > I am currently reading Dr. March's book on pediatric OCD. It was

> > > written in 2007, and appears to be very current. If I am

reading it

> > > correctly, he thinks that there should be no other med category

for

> > > OCD treatment other than an SSRI. I have read in other places

that

> > > Buspiron should only be used for Generalized Anxiety Disorder

> > > treatment and not OCD. I am completely overwhelmed with making

these

> > > decisions and thought I would reach out to the group for help.

> > >

> > > Thanks in advance.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> > Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> > http://www.. com/r/hs

> >

> >

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Welcome, Joan! You say it very well: These children are

intelligent, creative, and sensitive to the feelings of everything

and everyone around them. I'd have some words for that nun.

>

> Hi all,

> I am new to your group - and I am glad I found you! I have a

> beautiful 9 year old daughter who is highly gifted, highly

> perfectionistic and has OCD. I also have a 5 year old son with

> autism. I had to stop taking my daughter to church after her First

> Communion last year. We are Catholic, and when the children are

> preparing to receive Communion that try " practice hosts " . Well, my

> daughter practically threw up on the altar. This blew up into a big

> issue - with her teacher telling the nun and telling my daughter

that

> she HAD to take the host or she would not be making her First

> Communion, blah blah blah. I think that initially her reaction was

a

> sensory one, as she does have sensory issues. Then it turned into

an

> OCD thing. The last time I took her to church she sat in the pew

> crying with me holding her and trying to console her. Needless to

> say, we just don't even try anymore.

>

> I am a person who has no problem explaining my thoughts and feelings

> about my children, religion, or any other topic, and I refuse to be

> made to feel ashamed by some " less enlightened " individuals! Our

kids

> are wonderful - they don't need to go to church to be good people,

> they are perfect as they were created.

> Joan in Chicago

>

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Not sure I understand-someone who cannot receive and swallow the host

cannot receive Communion (one of my daughter's went through a spell

of this, and my son currently-but they can still attend mass-if

attendance not blocked by ocd as well).

Also, if someone cannot receive the host, they can receive it under

the form of wine (has this been checked into?). So I don't quite get

the concern? Unless someone was unecessarily harsh or rude-which may

be the case.

If your daughter can continue to practice to take the host (which is

not consecrated so no concern over desecration) then why can't she be

prepared to receive her First Communion?

My son was not able to attend instruction for First Communion last

year-because of how his siblings' ocd was taking over our lives-so he

is in the class a year late.

It is necessary, imo, for the individual to be well instructed to

know what they are receiving, before making Communion, so I am ok

with the parish postponing his reception, and, in an indirect way, it

was, unfortunately, due to ocd (just not his ocd). Anyway, sorry this

is happening with your daughter. OCD does not suspend for religious

observances ( I would have hoped otherwise) but surely God knows this

and there should be no guilt or blame associated with it.

nancy grace

> >

> > Hi all,

> > I am new to your group - and I am glad I found you! I have a

> > beautiful 9 year old daughter who is highly gifted, highly

> > perfectionistic and has OCD. I also have a 5 year old son with

> > autism. I had to stop taking my daughter to church after her

First

> > Communion last year. We are Catholic, and when the children are

> > preparing to receive Communion that try " practice hosts " . Well,

my

> > daughter practically threw up on the altar. This blew up into a

big

> > issue - with her teacher telling the nun and telling my daughter

> that

> > she HAD to take the host or she would not be making her First

> > Communion, blah blah blah. I think that initially her reaction

was

> a

> > sensory one, as she does have sensory issues. Then it turned

into

> an

> > OCD thing. The last time I took her to church she sat in the pew

> > crying with me holding her and trying to console her. Needless to

> > say, we just don't even try anymore.

> >

> > I am a person who has no problem explaining my thoughts and

feelings

> > about my children, religion, or any other topic, and I refuse to

be

> > made to feel ashamed by some " less enlightened " individuals! Our

> kids

> > are wonderful - they don't need to go to church to be good people,

> > they are perfect as they were created.

> > Joan in Chicago

> >

>

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Joan,

When you say that it turned into an " OCD thing " , I wonder what kind of

OCD? My daughter (13) has the scrupulosity variant of OCD and for a

long time we didn't attend church because she was plagued by thoughts

of going to hell if she didn't do what the OCD told her to do. Church

attendance was excruciating for her. During CBT the therapist actually

took her (I was along, too) to a church nearby and we worked on the

specific things that she found really difficult, like holding the Bible

a certain way, or reading from the Bible.

In fact, for many exposures before that one she and I would simply

drive to nearby churches and sit there in the car until her anxiety

lessened. Then we went to our church (in off hours) and stood in the

lobby. When she was ready we sat in a pew. I'm happy to say that now

we're able to go and her OCD has diminished. I don't know for sure how

much of the improvement is due to CBT and how much is meds, but I'm

just glad that there's an improvement.

I agree with you that the rituals of the church are nice but not

necessary for salvation. You have to do what you think best as a

parent. Maybe you could develop your own exposures which walk her

slowly up the scale since sitting in church seems very difficult for

her. Our psychologists emphasized that we should not avoid situations

because of OCD - avoiding gives it more power. But starting out slow

will give her more of a feeling of accomplishment and confidence.

Good luck! I hope all goes well for you.

Marilee

.....I think that initially her reaction was a

> sensory one, as she does have sensory issues. Then it turned into an

> OCD thing. The last time I took her to church she sat in the pew

> crying with me holding her and trying to console her. Needless to

> say, we just don't even try anymore.

>

> I am a person who has no problem explaining my thoughts and feelings

> about my children, religion, or any other topic, and I refuse to be

> made to feel ashamed by some " less enlightened " individuals! Our kids

> are wonderful - they don't need to go to church to be good people,

> they are perfect as they were created.

> Joan in Chicago

>

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BJ,

thanks for the encouragement and just plain old empathy/ understanding. I will

vent right along with you that my biggest struggle is that unless a person has

walked in our shoes, it is just plain old impossible to understand. I get the

feeling from some - not all - people in our church that we should just

'crack down' on our son and get his behavior in line. ha. been there done

that. For a long time before I knew he had ocd. Didn't help a thing. Probably

made it worse. My son has also been upset up and down about God since he was

five. So tough to watch a child walk through. his fears have lessened, and he

enjoys some Bible reading.

anyway, thanks again for writing. The day will come when fear will be conquered

for our guys.

hugs,

Leigh Anne

Re: avoiding church

I wish I had some answers or advice to share, Leigh Anne, but I don't.

I will say, I'm sorry for what you are going through, and I understand.

Our son started melting down about God when he was 5. I had no idea he

even had OCD (at that time) and had never heard of scrupulosity. I

just knew that reading from the Bible freaked him out, and going to

church became impossible.

As we've progressed through the years and found out what we were

dealing with (OCD), I've been afraid to take him to church. I worry

all of that old stuff will just flare right back up. So, I've opted

to avoid. I'm not sure if that's the best thing to do, but it kept

the peace.

Then, to make matters worse, you run into people from church who have

no idea what you are dealing with and as you try to share, they decide

your child is possessed, and psychology and medication is evil.

<sigh> I'm not saying all have been that way, but there always seems

to be a few in the crowd. If they only knew. If they could walk in

our shoes for one day, I'm sure they would change their minds. I

assure you they've never seen their child suffer the way most of us

have. So, instead of sharing, you end up feeling ashamed of something

you shouldn't have to feel ashamed of, and you hide it so you and your

child will not be judged harshly. Nobody would make you feel that way

if your child had diabetes. Okay. . .Just venting a little here, but

I'd bet some of you know exactly what I'm talking about because you've

experienced it too.

I just hope that someday our son can have a relationship with God,

without fear.

BJ

> > >

> > > I am meeting with my sons' psychiatrist on Thursday to discuss next

> > > moves with his medications. So far, he appears to be med resistant

> > > and has tried 3 different SSRI's, over a 2 year period, with no

> > > notable difference. He is currently on Celexa (and yes, appears to

> > > have gained weight... probably about 10 lbs.) and she wants to

> > > introduce the tranquilizer Buspiron to augment the Celexa. She says

> > > it is a non-addicting, low side effect tranquilizer.

> > >

> > > The idea of giving him this has been hard for me to take. I have

just

> > > read in an old post that there is an OTC B Vitamin called Inositol

> > > that has been used in augmentation as well, but the post was

written 3

> > > years ago, and I would like to find someone who has gone this route

> > > more recently.

> > >

> > > I am currently reading Dr. March's book on pediatric OCD. It was

> > > written in 2007, and appears to be very current. If I am reading it

> > > correctly, he thinks that there should be no other med category for

> > > OCD treatment other than an SSRI. I have read in other places that

> > > Buspiron should only be used for Generalized Anxiety Disorder

> > > treatment and not OCD. I am completely overwhelmed with making these

> > > decisions and thought I would reach out to the group for help.

> > >

> > > Thanks in advance.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> > Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> > http://www.. com/r/hs

> >

> >

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Share on other sites

BJ,

thanks for the encouragement and just plain old empathy/ understanding. I will

vent right along with you that my biggest struggle is that unless a person has

walked in our shoes, it is just plain old impossible to understand. I get the

feeling from some - not all - people in our church that we should just

'crack down' on our son and get his behavior in line. ha. been there done

that. For a long time before I knew he had ocd. Didn't help a thing. Probably

made it worse. My son has also been upset up and down about God since he was

five. So tough to watch a child walk through. his fears have lessened, and he

enjoys some Bible reading.

anyway, thanks again for writing. The day will come when fear will be conquered

for our guys.

hugs,

Leigh Anne

Re: avoiding church

I wish I had some answers or advice to share, Leigh Anne, but I don't.

I will say, I'm sorry for what you are going through, and I understand.

Our son started melting down about God when he was 5. I had no idea he

even had OCD (at that time) and had never heard of scrupulosity. I

just knew that reading from the Bible freaked him out, and going to

church became impossible.

As we've progressed through the years and found out what we were

dealing with (OCD), I've been afraid to take him to church. I worry

all of that old stuff will just flare right back up. So, I've opted

to avoid. I'm not sure if that's the best thing to do, but it kept

the peace.

Then, to make matters worse, you run into people from church who have

no idea what you are dealing with and as you try to share, they decide

your child is possessed, and psychology and medication is evil.

<sigh> I'm not saying all have been that way, but there always seems

to be a few in the crowd. If they only knew. If they could walk in

our shoes for one day, I'm sure they would change their minds. I

assure you they've never seen their child suffer the way most of us

have. So, instead of sharing, you end up feeling ashamed of something

you shouldn't have to feel ashamed of, and you hide it so you and your

child will not be judged harshly. Nobody would make you feel that way

if your child had diabetes. Okay. . .Just venting a little here, but

I'd bet some of you know exactly what I'm talking about because you've

experienced it too.

I just hope that someday our son can have a relationship with God,

without fear.

BJ

> > >

> > > I am meeting with my sons' psychiatrist on Thursday to discuss next

> > > moves with his medications. So far, he appears to be med resistant

> > > and has tried 3 different SSRI's, over a 2 year period, with no

> > > notable difference. He is currently on Celexa (and yes, appears to

> > > have gained weight... probably about 10 lbs.) and she wants to

> > > introduce the tranquilizer Buspiron to augment the Celexa. She says

> > > it is a non-addicting, low side effect tranquilizer.

> > >

> > > The idea of giving him this has been hard for me to take. I have

just

> > > read in an old post that there is an OTC B Vitamin called Inositol

> > > that has been used in augmentation as well, but the post was

written 3

> > > years ago, and I would like to find someone who has gone this route

> > > more recently.

> > >

> > > I am currently reading Dr. March's book on pediatric OCD. It was

> > > written in 2007, and appears to be very current. If I am reading it

> > > correctly, he thinks that there should be no other med category for

> > > OCD treatment other than an SSRI. I have read in other places that

> > > Buspiron should only be used for Generalized Anxiety Disorder

> > > treatment and not OCD. I am completely overwhelmed with making these

> > > decisions and thought I would reach out to the group for help.

> > >

> > > Thanks in advance.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> > Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> > http://www.. com/r/hs

> >

> >

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Share on other sites

,

How many kids do you have? three with ocd? wow. I have three kids, and my

oldest has ocd. my youngest (age 3) is showing signs, and I'm scared to death.

We've been through so much, just can't imagine going through it all again with

her. . .

Anyway, I totally understand what you're saying about not being able to control

all the ways it affects your family. Not worth it to try to 'make' it happen/

going to church and all. My husband also tends to see it that i've caved in,

and that it is a defiance issue, though it clearly isn't. That can be so tough/

being on different pages with your spouse. We're slowly working it all through.

I think you're right - the important things will hopefully fall back into place

as the ocd is treated!

Good luck with all!

Leigh Anne

Re: avoiding church

Of my 3 kids with ocd, one cannot attend church at all, and two have

difficulty off and on. Though my son primarily had trouble with the

crowds and contamination aspect (he also cannot do anything in

proximity to his brother who is " contaminated " so cannot sit near him

in van or pew) it then turns into a feeling of unworthiness b/c of

missed attendance, which then compounds the obsessiog and avoidance.

This is similar for my two daughters as well (not attending for

various ocd reasons-but then some scrupulosity sets in over missing

mass) but not as severe/consistent.

My kids without ocd do not have these problems with church, so I can

say it is not church/religion that causes it (as some might suggest

and pointing to guilt that thinking about sin might initiate and how

that is a " bad " thing about religion for kids). It is the ocd not the

religion.

We also have had the struggles on Sunday, it turning into a day of

heightened ocd behaviors and heightened stress for everyone, so that

we don't have that family togetherness any more (finally just gave up

on enforcing everyone to attend b/c the absence is not for discipline

or defiance reasons- though my husband tends to see it this way and

that causes alot of strain-he thinks I caved in, but I just cannot do

mass that way). It affects you in the community as well, how other

parishioners who know you wonder why your kids are now missing, maybe

thinking it is a teen rebellion thing or something...

I figure if the ocd gets properly treated eventually, then some of

these things will fall back into place. I just cannot control all the

ways it affects us.

nancy grace

> > >

> > > I am meeting with my sons' psychiatrist on Thursday to discuss

next

> > > moves with his medications. So far, he appears to be med

resistant

> > > and has tried 3 different SSRI's, over a 2 year period, with no

> > > notable difference. He is currently on Celexa (and yes, appears

to

> > > have gained weight... probably about 10 lbs.) and she wants to

> > > introduce the tranquilizer Buspiron to augment the Celexa. She

says

> > > it is a non-addicting, low side effect tranquilizer.

> > >

> > > The idea of giving him this has been hard for me to take. I

have just

> > > read in an old post that there is an OTC B Vitamin called

Inositol

> > > that has been used in augmentation as well, but the post was

written 3

> > > years ago, and I would like to find someone who has gone this

route

> > > more recently.

> > >

> > > I am currently reading Dr. March's book on pediatric OCD. It was

> > > written in 2007, and appears to be very current. If I am

reading it

> > > correctly, he thinks that there should be no other med category

for

> > > OCD treatment other than an SSRI. I have read in other places

that

> > > Buspiron should only be used for Generalized Anxiety Disorder

> > > treatment and not OCD. I am completely overwhelmed with making

these

> > > decisions and thought I would reach out to the group for help.

> > >

> > > Thanks in advance.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> > Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> > http://www.. com/r/hs

> >

> >

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Share on other sites

Thanks for 'rambling' and sharing some of your story. I also had a bout with

scrupulosity myself after college. Mine was extremely severe for a few months,

but hasn't really come back since it was tackled. I do have to also be very

careful what preachers/teachers I listen to, but reading the Bible doesn't

bother me. Though it did used to, and I am no longer under the felt obligation

to read it every day or something. Scrupe does seem very individual, but some

similarities. It's wonderful that your son loves his church and is loved very

much there. That is hopeful to me. It is so cool to have the freedom to do

what works for each of us, huh? is doing well being active in church.

You're slowing down with it. I'm avoiding our old church like the plague, but

that's another story. . .

Smiles,

Leigh Anne

Re: avoiding church

Re scrupe: my son's OCD is scrupe, falls in the severe range. I've

gone thru a bit of it myself (from teen years) but not anywhere near

what OCD can cause.

For me: I didn't grow up going to church. But avoiding things like

reading the Bible or going in a church, etc., helped me. Now - my

son, , began going to church and I went with him (to the

church service, not the Sunday school part) and since 's

scrupe began - and so many thoughts about it//scrupe, talking

about it, etc. - mine popped back up some. And due partly to

my " avoidance " I've always shrugged it off pretty easily, though I

can " cringe " at some thoughts.

: He didn't grow up going to church either (since I didn't

go) but did attend some things; like his AWANAS (if I recall the name

right) was through a church, he very occasionally went to a church

event maybe (my oldest son went to church until maybe end of 6th

grade, he quit on his own). Anyway, 's scrupulosity began

BEFORE attending church. He began reading the Bible before bed early

in high school. Fine with me. But I did worry about OCD (which he'd

had since 6th grade) taking hold of this, causing scrupe to pop up.

And in 11th grade it did.

We actually talked 2 or 3 times to a coworker's husband who was a

minister after 's scrupe began. was taking some

things a bit too literally, not all, some. Anyway that helped. But

he wanted to begin to attend church, I thought it might help

straighten some " misconceptions " (? good word?) out. Plus with his

Aspergers Syndrome, he's never really had a social life at all. And

some nice teens (I knew from his high school band and other) attended

the church he now goes too. It was great for opening things up for

him, giving him somewhat of a social life, the youth group there and

all.

His scrupulosity is better in areas, some things eased up. But the

constant " bad thoughts " (cursing God or whatever; he won't talk about

it much) are still there; sure he's committed the unpardonable sin,

whatever, no chance of Heaven, etc. But he still attends EVERYthing

at church, won't miss a day, goes to youth group things, etc. He

seems anxious if I mention missing anything and I don't know if

that's an OCD thing, he says it's because he enjoys going, which he

does (still no social life outside church or college). I, on the

other hand, have eased up on attending myself. I try to go about

once a month now. It's not because of scrupulosity that I've

lessened it, I was never enthused about going or whatever (having

grown up not going) but I do think it has helped my own bit of re-

emerging thoughts to ease up by not sitting in church.

I think if stopped -- well, he'd torture himself, probably

think it's adding to his sins. The other side being, everyone there

loves , is great to him, he enjoys *that* side of it, not just

going because he feels he should.

I guess it differs with people. Reading the Bible or sitting in a

church or my thinking so much about " wonder what 's

thinking? " , LOL, can trigger mine. Not reading the actual Bible or

sitting in a church or sitting in a sermon helps mine not be

triggered. I can read Bible stuff online, it won't bother me so much

as a Bible in my hands. I think 's scrupe isn't triggered

like mine (holding Bible, being in a church...) and he will have

thoughts - and does - ANYwhere, 24/7. And I've always realized that

my thoughts are just that - thoughts - and still can't grasp

that concept as to his own problems.

Okay I rambled, jumped around, LOL, sorry. You can argue going to

church is good exposure (ERP), that's what I tell myself when I'm

there sometimes. :)

Well I hope Leigh Anne and all can slowly move towards going back to

church. With OCD, I think once you make progress in some

behaviors/thoughts, a lot of the other behaviors (not all) can be

more easily handled/overcome. Can some of you do church events or

read Bible or stories at home but not attend? You might work on a

bit of exposure at home with Bible stories or something, maybe just

talking/telling one?

>

> Hey and everyone,

> Somehow I missed out on the whole conversation, but I got bits and

pieces of some of you talking about your diagnosed child having to

quit going to church. We are in the middle of this one right now

with our seven year old son. We haven't made him go in months

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

http://www./r/hs

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Hi Leigh Anne,

Thanks for your understanding (re spouses). My 19, 15, and 10 yr olds

have OCD diagnoses, not to say plenty other neuro-stuff

does not go on too. My 19 and 15 yr old girls have been hospitalized

due to OCD, one at UCLA, other at Menninger (our insurance pretty

generous, but after years of haggling to realize non-specialty

treatment a waste of money). They both still struggle, have their own

ways and timetable, but are better. It is the comorbidities (one

mood disorder spectrum, the other aspie spectrum) that complicate

treatment. My 10 yr old son is on homebound tutoring now, as his ocd

kicked in severe just this year. My 13, 8, and 5 yr olds seem fine.

We had a normal period of family life before my oldest started having

symptoms (did not know it was ocd and I was vacuuming her room

washing her bedding etc) around 7th grade when she started school

after homeschooling. The next 4 children already here at that point

and 2nd daughter had begun homeschooling. I assumed all was well,

though my 2nd daughter (placid and exceedingly shy as baby/toddler)

was seeming more odd with screaming spells and sensory defensiveness.

Her pediatrician suggested autism-but did not quite fit since she had

normal if not precocious speech early on. My 6th(little surprise

blessing) was not born yet.

This is what I try to explain about our large family-we assumed all

was well or would be well (b/c I infer at times a sense of blame or

irresponsibility attributed to us for having 3 kids with ocd-maybe

just among counselors or " dud " therapists we stumbled upon

initially).

When I learned OCD was genetic to a degree, I got us and extended

family enrolled in a university research study (I also have identical

twin who functions poorly w/preference to be alone and dh has brother

similar) blood draws and interviews. I also thought it might help my

dh get it. Kept trying to find right therapy within driving distance

and covered by insurance. Our p-doc is out of pocket. It is easier to

get customized help with practitioner not in managed care.

It was kind of a blow to me when my son started having such classic

symptoms, he'd had some transient symptoms in past that I hoped were

extent of it. I was on his case too, " how can you let OCD do

this when you have seen what your sister's have gone through? " But

OCD does not reason that way.

I'm always running to appointments. Have two 504/potentially IEP's

(for 10 and 15 yr old) in development. My oldest (19) cannot attend

away college-though conditionally accepted, so trying to fit one or

two community college courses (starting slow) into her schedule (she

does not drive yet and was literally homebound if not room-bound

before Menninger) plus her therapy. Therapy for my son. Therapy for

my 15 yr old. All three see a psychiatrist as well. I actually

discontinued therapy apptments for my 15 yr old in Oct (my

own health crisis) and she seems better mood-wise due to reduced

stress!

I don't know where to focus sometimes, but fortunately my other 3 do

just fine.

The hardest has been not being on same page with my husband, I know

this has been hard for our affected kids. So I can't say, as I'd wish

to, " it is just the ocd, not family dynamics " . My husband trys but

repeatedly lapses into frustration, blaming (often me) or temper over

some of the behaviors and/or limitations. Sometimes I think is more

frustration than true sentiments that come out, but my kids cannot be

expected to see that. So the affected kids avoid him. (And the other

siblings wary). They are less inclined to see OCD as the culprit at

times b/c angry or hurt over dad. We've done the family therapy, but

still he has these lapses. It so happens that he needs a strict

routine and planned expectations to function well himself so all the

disruptions stressful. He took up running which helps, I do see a

change it is like medication for him. Yet with a recent injury the

mood/temper flared again. Not to say I have no part in passing on

some ocd or neuro-dysfunction. My dh and I both fit into shadow

syndrome category I think.

nancy grace

>

> ,

> How many kids do you have? three with ocd? wow. I have three

kids, and my oldest has ocd. my youngest (age 3) is showing signs,

and I'm scared to death. We've been through so much, just can't

imagine going through it all again with her. . .

> Anyway, I totally understand what you're saying about not being

able to control all the ways it affects your family. Not worth it to

try to 'make' it happen/ going to church and all. My husband also

tends to see it that i've caved in, and that it is a defiance issue,

though it clearly isn't. That can be so tough/ being on different

pages with your spouse. We're slowly working it all through.

> I think you're right - the important things will hopefully fall

back into place as the ocd is treated!

> Good luck with all!

> Leigh Anne

>

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

Hi Leigh Anne,

Thanks for your understanding (re spouses). My 19, 15, and 10 yr olds

have OCD diagnoses, not to say plenty other neuro-stuff

does not go on too. My 19 and 15 yr old girls have been hospitalized

due to OCD, one at UCLA, other at Menninger (our insurance pretty

generous, but after years of haggling to realize non-specialty

treatment a waste of money). They both still struggle, have their own

ways and timetable, but are better. It is the comorbidities (one

mood disorder spectrum, the other aspie spectrum) that complicate

treatment. My 10 yr old son is on homebound tutoring now, as his ocd

kicked in severe just this year. My 13, 8, and 5 yr olds seem fine.

We had a normal period of family life before my oldest started having

symptoms (did not know it was ocd and I was vacuuming her room

washing her bedding etc) around 7th grade when she started school

after homeschooling. The next 4 children already here at that point

and 2nd daughter had begun homeschooling. I assumed all was well,

though my 2nd daughter (placid and exceedingly shy as baby/toddler)

was seeming more odd with screaming spells and sensory defensiveness.

Her pediatrician suggested autism-but did not quite fit since she had

normal if not precocious speech early on. My 6th(little surprise

blessing) was not born yet.

This is what I try to explain about our large family-we assumed all

was well or would be well (b/c I infer at times a sense of blame or

irresponsibility attributed to us for having 3 kids with ocd-maybe

just among counselors or " dud " therapists we stumbled upon

initially).

When I learned OCD was genetic to a degree, I got us and extended

family enrolled in a university research study (I also have identical

twin who functions poorly w/preference to be alone and dh has brother

similar) blood draws and interviews. I also thought it might help my

dh get it. Kept trying to find right therapy within driving distance

and covered by insurance. Our p-doc is out of pocket. It is easier to

get customized help with practitioner not in managed care.

It was kind of a blow to me when my son started having such classic

symptoms, he'd had some transient symptoms in past that I hoped were

extent of it. I was on his case too, " how can you let OCD do

this when you have seen what your sister's have gone through? " But

OCD does not reason that way.

I'm always running to appointments. Have two 504/potentially IEP's

(for 10 and 15 yr old) in development. My oldest (19) cannot attend

away college-though conditionally accepted, so trying to fit one or

two community college courses (starting slow) into her schedule (she

does not drive yet and was literally homebound if not room-bound

before Menninger) plus her therapy. Therapy for my son. Therapy for

my 15 yr old. All three see a psychiatrist as well. I actually

discontinued therapy apptments for my 15 yr old in Oct (my

own health crisis) and she seems better mood-wise due to reduced

stress!

I don't know where to focus sometimes, but fortunately my other 3 do

just fine.

The hardest has been not being on same page with my husband, I know

this has been hard for our affected kids. So I can't say, as I'd wish

to, " it is just the ocd, not family dynamics " . My husband trys but

repeatedly lapses into frustration, blaming (often me) or temper over

some of the behaviors and/or limitations. Sometimes I think is more

frustration than true sentiments that come out, but my kids cannot be

expected to see that. So the affected kids avoid him. (And the other

siblings wary). They are less inclined to see OCD as the culprit at

times b/c angry or hurt over dad. We've done the family therapy, but

still he has these lapses. It so happens that he needs a strict

routine and planned expectations to function well himself so all the

disruptions stressful. He took up running which helps, I do see a

change it is like medication for him. Yet with a recent injury the

mood/temper flared again. Not to say I have no part in passing on

some ocd or neuro-dysfunction. My dh and I both fit into shadow

syndrome category I think.

nancy grace

>

> ,

> How many kids do you have? three with ocd? wow. I have three

kids, and my oldest has ocd. my youngest (age 3) is showing signs,

and I'm scared to death. We've been through so much, just can't

imagine going through it all again with her. . .

> Anyway, I totally understand what you're saying about not being

able to control all the ways it affects your family. Not worth it to

try to 'make' it happen/ going to church and all. My husband also

tends to see it that i've caved in, and that it is a defiance issue,

though it clearly isn't. That can be so tough/ being on different

pages with your spouse. We're slowly working it all through.

> I think you're right - the important things will hopefully fall

back into place as the ocd is treated!

> Good luck with all!

> Leigh Anne

>

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

Hi, Grace,

I am really new to all this and am still trying to understand terms. What is

a shadow symptom?

Bren

nancy grace <nmlinnen@...> wrote:

Hi Leigh Anne,

Thanks for your understanding (re spouses). My 19, 15, and 10 yr olds

have OCD diagnoses, not to say plenty other neuro-stuff

does not go on too. My 19 and 15 yr old girls have been hospitalized

due to OCD, one at UCLA, other at Menninger (our insurance pretty

generous, but after years of haggling to realize non-specialty

treatment a waste of money). They both still struggle, have their own

ways and timetable, but are better. It is the comorbidities (one

mood disorder spectrum, the other aspie spectrum) that complicate

treatment. My 10 yr old son is on homebound tutoring now, as his ocd

kicked in severe just this year. My 13, 8, and 5 yr olds seem fine.

We had a normal period of family life before my oldest started having

symptoms (did not know it was ocd and I was vacuuming her room

washing her bedding etc) around 7th grade when she started school

after homeschooling. The next 4 children already here at that point

and 2nd daughter had begun homeschooling. I assumed all was well,

though my 2nd daughter (placid and exceedingly shy as baby/toddler)

was seeming more odd with screaming spells and sensory defensiveness.

Her pediatrician suggested autism-but did not quite fit since she had

normal if not precocious speech early on. My 6th(little surprise

blessing) was not born yet.

This is what I try to explain about our large family-we assumed all

was well or would be well (b/c I infer at times a sense of blame or

irresponsibility attributed to us for having 3 kids with ocd-maybe

just among counselors or " dud " therapists we stumbled upon

initially).

When I learned OCD was genetic to a degree, I got us and extended

family enrolled in a university research study (I also have identical

twin who functions poorly w/preference to be alone and dh has brother

similar) blood draws and interviews. I also thought it might help my

dh get it. Kept trying to find right therapy within driving distance

and covered by insurance. Our p-doc is out of pocket. It is easier to

get customized help with practitioner not in managed care.

It was kind of a blow to me when my son started having such classic

symptoms, he'd had some transient symptoms in past that I hoped were

extent of it. I was on his case too, " how can you let OCD do

this when you have seen what your sister's have gone through? " But

OCD does not reason that way.

I'm always running to appointments. Have two 504/potentially IEP's

(for 10 and 15 yr old) in development. My oldest (19) cannot attend

away college-though conditionally accepted, so trying to fit one or

two community college courses (starting slow) into her schedule (she

does not drive yet and was literally homebound if not room-bound

before Menninger) plus her therapy. Therapy for my son. Therapy for

my 15 yr old. All three see a psychiatrist as well. I actually

discontinued therapy apptments for my 15 yr old in Oct (my

own health crisis) and she seems better mood-wise due to reduced

stress!

I don't know where to focus sometimes, but fortunately my other 3 do

just fine.

The hardest has been not being on same page with my husband, I know

this has been hard for our affected kids. So I can't say, as I'd wish

to, " it is just the ocd, not family dynamics " . My husband trys but

repeatedly lapses into frustration, blaming (often me) or temper over

some of the behaviors and/or limitations. Sometimes I think is more

frustration than true sentiments that come out, but my kids cannot be

expected to see that. So the affected kids avoid him. (And the other

siblings wary). They are less inclined to see OCD as the culprit at

times b/c angry or hurt over dad. We've done the family therapy, but

still he has these lapses. It so happens that he needs a strict

routine and planned expectations to function well himself so all the

disruptions stressful. He took up running which helps, I do see a

change it is like medication for him. Yet with a recent injury the

mood/temper flared again. Not to say I have no part in passing on

some ocd or neuro-dysfunction. My dh and I both fit into shadow

syndrome category I think.

nancy grace

>

> ,

> How many kids do you have? three with ocd? wow. I have three

kids, and my oldest has ocd. my youngest (age 3) is showing signs,

and I'm scared to death. We've been through so much, just can't

imagine going through it all again with her. . .

> Anyway, I totally understand what you're saying about not being

able to control all the ways it affects your family. Not worth it to

try to 'make' it happen/ going to church and all. My husband also

tends to see it that i've caved in, and that it is a defiance issue,

though it clearly isn't. That can be so tough/ being on different

pages with your spouse. We're slowly working it all through.

> I think you're right - the important things will hopefully fall

back into place as the ocd is treated!

> Good luck with all!

> Leigh Anne

>

>

>

>

---------------------------------

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Hi, Grace,

I am really new to all this and am still trying to understand terms. What is

a shadow symptom?

Bren

nancy grace <nmlinnen@...> wrote:

Hi Leigh Anne,

Thanks for your understanding (re spouses). My 19, 15, and 10 yr olds

have OCD diagnoses, not to say plenty other neuro-stuff

does not go on too. My 19 and 15 yr old girls have been hospitalized

due to OCD, one at UCLA, other at Menninger (our insurance pretty

generous, but after years of haggling to realize non-specialty

treatment a waste of money). They both still struggle, have their own

ways and timetable, but are better. It is the comorbidities (one

mood disorder spectrum, the other aspie spectrum) that complicate

treatment. My 10 yr old son is on homebound tutoring now, as his ocd

kicked in severe just this year. My 13, 8, and 5 yr olds seem fine.

We had a normal period of family life before my oldest started having

symptoms (did not know it was ocd and I was vacuuming her room

washing her bedding etc) around 7th grade when she started school

after homeschooling. The next 4 children already here at that point

and 2nd daughter had begun homeschooling. I assumed all was well,

though my 2nd daughter (placid and exceedingly shy as baby/toddler)

was seeming more odd with screaming spells and sensory defensiveness.

Her pediatrician suggested autism-but did not quite fit since she had

normal if not precocious speech early on. My 6th(little surprise

blessing) was not born yet.

This is what I try to explain about our large family-we assumed all

was well or would be well (b/c I infer at times a sense of blame or

irresponsibility attributed to us for having 3 kids with ocd-maybe

just among counselors or " dud " therapists we stumbled upon

initially).

When I learned OCD was genetic to a degree, I got us and extended

family enrolled in a university research study (I also have identical

twin who functions poorly w/preference to be alone and dh has brother

similar) blood draws and interviews. I also thought it might help my

dh get it. Kept trying to find right therapy within driving distance

and covered by insurance. Our p-doc is out of pocket. It is easier to

get customized help with practitioner not in managed care.

It was kind of a blow to me when my son started having such classic

symptoms, he'd had some transient symptoms in past that I hoped were

extent of it. I was on his case too, " how can you let OCD do

this when you have seen what your sister's have gone through? " But

OCD does not reason that way.

I'm always running to appointments. Have two 504/potentially IEP's

(for 10 and 15 yr old) in development. My oldest (19) cannot attend

away college-though conditionally accepted, so trying to fit one or

two community college courses (starting slow) into her schedule (she

does not drive yet and was literally homebound if not room-bound

before Menninger) plus her therapy. Therapy for my son. Therapy for

my 15 yr old. All three see a psychiatrist as well. I actually

discontinued therapy apptments for my 15 yr old in Oct (my

own health crisis) and she seems better mood-wise due to reduced

stress!

I don't know where to focus sometimes, but fortunately my other 3 do

just fine.

The hardest has been not being on same page with my husband, I know

this has been hard for our affected kids. So I can't say, as I'd wish

to, " it is just the ocd, not family dynamics " . My husband trys but

repeatedly lapses into frustration, blaming (often me) or temper over

some of the behaviors and/or limitations. Sometimes I think is more

frustration than true sentiments that come out, but my kids cannot be

expected to see that. So the affected kids avoid him. (And the other

siblings wary). They are less inclined to see OCD as the culprit at

times b/c angry or hurt over dad. We've done the family therapy, but

still he has these lapses. It so happens that he needs a strict

routine and planned expectations to function well himself so all the

disruptions stressful. He took up running which helps, I do see a

change it is like medication for him. Yet with a recent injury the

mood/temper flared again. Not to say I have no part in passing on

some ocd or neuro-dysfunction. My dh and I both fit into shadow

syndrome category I think.

nancy grace

>

> ,

> How many kids do you have? three with ocd? wow. I have three

kids, and my oldest has ocd. my youngest (age 3) is showing signs,

and I'm scared to death. We've been through so much, just can't

imagine going through it all again with her. . .

> Anyway, I totally understand what you're saying about not being

able to control all the ways it affects your family. Not worth it to

try to 'make' it happen/ going to church and all. My husband also

tends to see it that i've caved in, and that it is a defiance issue,

though it clearly isn't. That can be so tough/ being on different

pages with your spouse. We're slowly working it all through.

> I think you're right - the important things will hopefully fall

back into place as the ocd is treated!

> Good luck with all!

> Leigh Anne

>

>

>

>

---------------------------------

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Grace: Your story is amazing. You must be a very strong woman

to deal with the many facets of OCD you face each day. Really gives

me some perspective.

> >

> > ,

> > How many kids do you have? three with ocd? wow. I have three

> kids, and my oldest has ocd. my youngest (age 3) is showing signs,

> and I'm scared to death. We've been through so much, just can't

> imagine going through it all again with her. . .

> > Anyway, I totally understand what you're saying about not being

> able to control all the ways it affects your family. Not worth it

to

> try to 'make' it happen/ going to church and all. My husband also

> tends to see it that i've caved in, and that it is a defiance

issue,

> though it clearly isn't. That can be so tough/ being on different

> pages with your spouse. We're slowly working it all through.

> > I think you're right - the important things will hopefully fall

> back into place as the ocd is treated!

> > Good luck with all!

> > Leigh Anne

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with

Search.

>

>

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Hi Bren,

" Shadow syndrome " is a term to describe sub-clinical symptoms of a

psychiatric disorder. In other words symptoms do not interfere with

normal life but may cause some distress. For example in realm of

OCD, one can have mild degree of germ/washing type concerns, or

symmetry/order concerns, or checking so on. I think a book on the

subject coined the term.

nancy grace

-- In , Pailes

<swordovfire@...> wrote:

>

> Hi, Grace,

> I am really new to all this and am still trying to understand

terms. What is a shadow symptom?

> Bren

>

> nancy grace <nmlinnen@...> wrote:

> Hi Leigh Anne,

> Thanks for your understanding (re spouses). My 19, 15, and 10 yr

olds

> have OCD diagnoses, not to say plenty other neuro-stuff

> does not go on too. My 19 and 15 yr old girls have been

hospitalized

> due to OCD, one at UCLA, other at Menninger (our insurance pretty

> generous, but after years of haggling to realize non-specialty

> treatment a waste of money). They both still struggle, have their

own

> ways and timetable, but are better. It is the comorbidities (one

> mood disorder spectrum, the other aspie spectrum) that complicate

> treatment. My 10 yr old son is on homebound tutoring now, as his

ocd

> kicked in severe just this year. My 13, 8, and 5 yr olds seem fine.

>

>

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Hi Grace,

Thanks for the info. I'm still trying to figure out what's going on with my

daughter as most of the trouble goes on inside her head (obsessing over a

particular thought). One of the big things that upsets her is if she thinks I

am the least bit upset or frustrated. Frequently, it's all her ocd stuff and

not us being upset. It's like I'm constantly walking on eggshells because if I

do the least little thing she refuses to go on with anything until she says

" It's settled " . Since we are homeschooling, we just lose more school time.

She is already a year behind but she will not accept that. Any suggestions?

Bren

nancy grace <nmlinnen@...> wrote:

Hi Bren,

" Shadow syndrome " is a term to describe sub-clinical symptoms of a

psychiatric disorder. In other words symptoms do not interfere with

normal life but may cause some distress. For example in realm of

OCD, one can have mild degree of germ/washing type concerns, or

symmetry/order concerns, or checking so on. I think a book on the

subject coined the term.

nancy grace

-- In , Pailes

<swordovfire@...> wrote:

>

> Hi, Grace,

> I am really new to all this and am still trying to understand

terms. What is a shadow symptom?

> Bren

>

> nancy grace <nmlinnen@...> wrote:

> Hi Leigh Anne,

> Thanks for your understanding (re spouses). My 19, 15, and 10 yr

olds

> have OCD diagnoses, not to say plenty other neuro-stuff

> does not go on too. My 19 and 15 yr old girls have been

hospitalized

> due to OCD, one at UCLA, other at Menninger (our insurance pretty

> generous, but after years of haggling to realize non-specialty

> treatment a waste of money). They both still struggle, have their

own

> ways and timetable, but are better. It is the comorbidities (one

> mood disorder spectrum, the other aspie spectrum) that complicate

> treatment. My 10 yr old son is on homebound tutoring now, as his

ocd

> kicked in severe just this year. My 13, 8, and 5 yr olds seem fine.

>

>

---------------------------------

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((((hugs back)))) Leigh Anne

BJ

> > > >

> > > > I am meeting with my sons' psychiatrist on Thursday to discuss

next

> > > > moves with his medications. So far, he appears to be med resistant

> > > > and has tried 3 different SSRI's, over a 2 year period, with no

> > > > notable difference. He is currently on Celexa (and yes, appears to

> > > > have gained weight... probably about 10 lbs.) and she wants to

> > > > introduce the tranquilizer Buspiron to augment the Celexa. She

says

> > > > it is a non-addicting, low side effect tranquilizer.

> > > >

> > > > The idea of giving him this has been hard for me to take. I have

> just

> > > > read in an old post that there is an OTC B Vitamin called Inositol

> > > > that has been used in augmentation as well, but the post was

> written 3

> > > > years ago, and I would like to find someone who has gone this

route

> > > > more recently.

> > > >

> > > > I am currently reading Dr. March's book on pediatric OCD. It was

> > > > written in 2007, and appears to be very current. If I am

reading it

> > > > correctly, he thinks that there should be no other med

category for

> > > > OCD treatment other than an SSRI. I have read in other places that

> > > > Buspiron should only be used for Generalized Anxiety Disorder

> > > > treatment and not OCD. I am completely overwhelmed with making

these

> > > > decisions and thought I would reach out to the group for help.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks in advance.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> > > Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> > > http://www.. com/r/hs

> > >

> > >

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Hi Bren, If your daughter seeing a therapist? (if not go to files to

see how to locate therapist and what to look for). I don't think

most kids with ocd are willing to give up obsessions and inner or

outer rituals without therapy-too much anxiety and doubt.

The family and individual has to be primed for undergoing therapy, by

a professional naming the OCD, so the child knows it is " real " and

that a doctor says so (but that rituals are not valid for conquering

fears), and learning it is not their fault, nor anyone's. Then

getting information about it, learning how therapy works (bossing

back the OCD by messing up rituals, or delaying them, or not doing

them) and getting motivated to try.

On a day to day basis, without active participation in therapy

established (either because not in therapy yet, or or the child

refuses to partcipate) you can try not to accommodate rituals by

telling your daughter you do not have to to do what OCD says,and she

should try not to do what it says as well. It can seems to help by

calling the irrational behavior " OCD " (or a name the child chooses),

that you won't cooperate with, so she'll know that the reasonable

person you can help and cooperate with is your daughter-not her OCD.

nancy grace

> > Hi Leigh Anne,

> > Thanks for your understanding (re spouses). My 19, 15, and 10 yr

> olds

> > have OCD diagnoses, not to say plenty other neuro-stuff

> > does not go on too. My 19 and 15 yr old girls have been

> hospitalized

> > due to OCD, one at UCLA, other at Menninger (our insurance pretty

> > generous, but after years of haggling to realize non-specialty

> > treatment a waste of money). They both still struggle, have their

> own

> > ways and timetable, but are better. It is the comorbidities (one

> > mood disorder spectrum, the other aspie spectrum) that complicate

> > treatment. My 10 yr old son is on homebound tutoring now, as his

> ocd

> > kicked in severe just this year. My 13, 8, and 5 yr olds seem

fine.

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with

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>

>

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Hi Grace,

Yes, she just started seeing a therapist from our church. She is

professionally trained but is not a specialist in ocd. She told her to make

cards with scriptures on them and every time she had one of these thoughts to

read the cards until she felt better. She didn't reread at all for about 4 days

and then started getting upset about thinking we're mad. We couldn't see her

this week because our church is having an international missionary conference

and she (our therapist) had to work there. In fact, Lacey has to dance in it

tonight and I've tried to be so careful today so she wouldn't go off on a

tangent. There are going to be thousands of people there (literally). She and

four college students are opening the conference. We got off to a rocky start

this morning, but I told her she was obsessing and finally got her out of it.

Thanks for the advice. My husband is not really on board with understanding

this and has not been willing to look for an ocd specialist.

Bren

nancy grace <nmlinnen@...> wrote:

Hi Bren, If your daughter seeing a therapist? (if not go to files to

see how to locate therapist and what to look for). I don't think

most kids with ocd are willing to give up obsessions and inner or

outer rituals without therapy-too much anxiety and doubt.

The family and individual has to be primed for undergoing therapy, by

a professional naming the OCD, so the child knows it is " real " and

that a doctor says so (but that rituals are not valid for conquering

fears), and learning it is not their fault, nor anyone's. Then

getting information about it, learning how therapy works (bossing

back the OCD by messing up rituals, or delaying them, or not doing

them) and getting motivated to try.

On a day to day basis, without active participation in therapy

established (either because not in therapy yet, or or the child

refuses to partcipate) you can try not to accommodate rituals by

telling your daughter you do not have to to do what OCD says,and she

should try not to do what it says as well. It can seems to help by

calling the irrational behavior " OCD " (or a name the child chooses),

that you won't cooperate with, so she'll know that the reasonable

person you can help and cooperate with is your daughter-not her OCD.

nancy grace

> > Hi Leigh Anne,

> > Thanks for your understanding (re spouses). My 19, 15, and 10 yr

> olds

> > have OCD diagnoses, not to say plenty other neuro-stuff

> > does not go on too. My 19 and 15 yr old girls have been

> hospitalized

> > due to OCD, one at UCLA, other at Menninger (our insurance pretty

> > generous, but after years of haggling to realize non-specialty

> > treatment a waste of money). They both still struggle, have their

> own

> > ways and timetable, but are better. It is the comorbidities (one

> > mood disorder spectrum, the other aspie spectrum) that complicate

> > treatment. My 10 yr old son is on homebound tutoring now, as his

> ocd

> > kicked in severe just this year. My 13, 8, and 5 yr olds seem

fine.

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with

Search.

>

>

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Hi Bren, Would it be possible to at least consult with someone who

specifically treats OCD? They would state they use CBT and exposure

and response prevention(ERP).

Some practitioners give a free initial consult. Try for referral

from a research/teaching hospital or university based psychiatric

dept. I think it is very important to rule out OCD (or rule it in)

before choosing a therapist, b/c your daughter's behaviors do sound

like OCD. Try looking at the files (to left of this board) for more

info.

The scripture reading assignment suggests to me someone who has

little experience with clinical (more severe, biologically based)

anxiety-much less OCD. Though the therapist probably wants to help a

fellow parishioner,if you are dealing with OCD, possibly she could be

either wasting your time/money, or could even make the anxiety

worse....

nancy grace

, Pailes <swordovfire@...>

wrote:

>

> Hi Grace,

> Yes, she just started seeing a therapist from our church. She is

professionally trained but is not a specialist in ocd. She told her

to make cards with scriptures on them and every time she had one of

these thoughts to read the cards until she felt better. She didn't

reread at all for about 4 days and then started getting upset about

thinking we're mad. We couldn't see her this week because our church

is having an international missionary conference and she (our

therapist) had to work there. In fact, Lacey has to dance in it

tonight and I've tried to be so careful today so she wouldn't go off

on a tangent. There are going to be thousands of people there

(literally). She and four college students are opening the

conference. We got off to a rocky start this morning, but I told her

she was obsessing and finally got her out of it. Thanks for the

advice. My husband is not really on board with understanding this

and has not been willing to look for an ocd specialist.

>

> Bren

>

> nancy grace <nmlinnen@...> wrote:

> Hi Bren, If your daughter seeing a therapist? (if not go

to files to

> see how to locate therapist and what to look for). I don't think

> most kids with ocd are willing to give up obsessions and inner or

> outer rituals without therapy-too much anxiety and doubt.

>

> The family and individual has to be primed for undergoing therapy,

by

> a professional naming the OCD, so the child knows it is " real " and

> that a doctor says so (but that rituals are not valid for

conquering

> fears), and learning it is not their fault, nor anyone's. Then

> getting information about it, learning how therapy works (bossing

> back the OCD by messing up rituals, or delaying them, or not doing

> them) and getting motivated to try.

>

> On a day to day basis, without active participation in therapy

> established (either because not in therapy yet, or or the child

> refuses to partcipate) you can try not to accommodate rituals by

> telling your daughter you do not have to to do what OCD says,and

she

> should try not to do what it says as well. It can seems to help by

> calling the irrational behavior " OCD " (or a name the child

chooses),

> that you won't cooperate with, so she'll know that the reasonable

> person you can help and cooperate with is your daughter-not her

OCD.

> nancy grace

>

>

> > > Hi Leigh Anne,

> > > Thanks for your understanding (re spouses). My 19, 15, and 10

yr

> > olds

> > > have OCD diagnoses, not to say plenty other neuro-stuff

> > > does not go on too. My 19 and 15 yr old girls have been

> > hospitalized

> > > due to OCD, one at UCLA, other at Menninger (our insurance

pretty

> > > generous, but after years of haggling to realize non-specialty

> > > treatment a waste of money). They both still struggle, have

their

> > own

> > > ways and timetable, but are better. It is the comorbidities

(one

> > > mood disorder spectrum, the other aspie spectrum) that

complicate

> > > treatment. My 10 yr old son is on homebound tutoring now, as

his

> > ocd

> > > kicked in severe just this year. My 13, 8, and 5 yr olds seem

> fine.

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with

> Search.

> >

> >

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