pain

[Guest guest]

Just a quick reminder. Only about 70% of the patients on Minocin will

herx. Since I was one who did not feel any pain at all on Minocin as far as

herxing goes, I was very much afraid it was not working for me. I definitely

have RA as the fingers of my right hand slant to the side and my bloodwork

was positive for RA. I was just extraordinarily lucky that it worked like a

charm and I went into full remission. The only pain I ever had was the

ususual RA pain and aches that just slowly went away as the months passed.

It is truly a miracle for me!!! Martha

[Guest guest]

I have a friend whose son (younger than yours ) had kidney stones (also had

hypospadia surgery). The stones were apparently a result of chelation therapy -

I dont know much more than that. They gave up on chelation after the stones..

But... your son could have a urinary tract infection or something else causing

the pain.

lambschiari <sheilamsdlf@...> wrote:Hello group.

I'll try to keep this short, as if I get long, I don't get posted.

My 10yr old asd son has started wetting the bed again. Been having

periods of pain at the tip of his penis. At times burning while

urinating. He had hypospadias surgery at about 2 yrs old. I took

morning urine to dr's office. Was negative, they want to see him

tonight at 6:15. I thought for sure he had an infection??!! Can a 10

year old have stones?? He is on Houston enzymes, Mag. citrate, B6,

Eye Q.

Also, I have something called Proflvanol, from USANA. It has:

VITAMIN C (as calcium, potassium, magnesium and zinc ascorbates)

100 MG 167%

GRAPE SEED EXTRACT 30 MG

ASCORBYL PALMITATE 12 MG

other ingredients: MICROCRYSTALLINE CELLULOSE, CROSCARMELLOSE

SODIUM, PREGELATINIZED STARCH, HYDROXPROPYL METHYLCELLULOSE,

COLLOIDAL SILICON DIOXIDE.

Is this okay to give him IYO?

Next haircut, he is getting the hair elements test done FOR SURE!!

Husband finally agreed.

Thanks, any ideas? Sheila D

[Guest guest]

Long overdue thanks to Robin, Dana, Liz, and any other who responded to

my pain posts!

I am CONVINCED it's hormonally related, despite my idiot doctor's

ideas...

Several years ago I underwent treatment for endometriosis that

temporarily left my estrogen at menopause levels, though I was under 30

at the time. My guess is that breastfeeding left me similarly out of

whack.

I nixed the flaxseed oil -- just in case -- and started natural

progesterone cream, and for several days my pain was completely

gone...still needing to tweak the dose, because too much gives me

teenage acne, and I am gaining weight! But oh, to be pain-free...

I DO need omega 3s and/or 6s, though...what are good for us

autoimmune-challenged adults?

BTW, Robin, my sister has lupus and my mom has fibromyalgia, and my

son...well, he's unique! I am a great whining soundboard for whatever

ails ya!

Thanks again, everyone!

[Guest guest]

,

I am so glad you found something so helpful.

I am going to try it myself.

Thanks,

Robin

[Guest guest]

,

If your still fighting high estrogen I would suggest Cod Liver Oil

for your omega 3. I found a product that works better than the Cod

Liver Oil capsules. It is called Neuromins DHA plant source. This

product improved my mind when I was having such a bad problem with

the bath products. And It hasn't knocked my hormone levels around

any. Watch out about adding the other omega oils because many of

them we get too much of in our diet. Read up on this, it is

interesting. Seems that when we eat many fried foods, this high

omega 6 or 9 content puts the omega 3's out of commision. So we need

to supplement more of the 3's.

I think evening of primrose oil is an omega 3, double check. But it

increased estrogen with me. Some people can take it. I swear by the

fish oil.

About pain, did you catch my complaints about bath products? My

inflammation is gone now.

Do you have an idea when you need to supplement with your hormonal

cream? Like only a few weeks and which weeks, or every day like me?

I had an imbalance I corrected myself because doctors wouldn't even

look into it. I saw something on a talk show that sounded like me.

I didn't know about the cream at that time.

After my period would end, the next 3 days I would get the shakes in

my hands and feel badly jittery. The talk show mentioned that the

jitteriness was due to low estrogen. So I thought I would have to

find something to give me the hormone without the doctors. I found

liquorice root to be the source. I took it for those 3 days for

about 3 months. It actually made my symptoms go away and they didn't

come back. So this reinforced my belief that my hormones still

needed work on the rest of the month.

I got imbalanced after a 6 month try on birth control pills. Nothing

worked after that and I sunk in general health. No doctor would even

run a test, told me to go home and relax. I lost friends too over

the years. This happened to me when I was 19 and it took me until

38 to find about hormonal cream. To let you know that my hand shake

was so bad that the food on my fork wouldn't stay. It was

embarrassing eating out. My last recollection was seeing a young

girl at another table pointing to her friend to look at me eat.

Right after that I saw that program talking about womens issues and

giving me a little incite.

There is hope for your family too.

Liz D.

[Guest guest]

<<I am so glad you found something so helpful.

I am going to try it myself.

Thanks,

Robin>>

I can't find the books right now to give you the names of the authors,

but one is called " The Wisdom of Menopause " ...now I'll tell you right

now, this is written by an MD but she gets kind of wacky new-age

spiritual in it, connects symptoms to a whole bunch of life events, but

it's interesting and she's got good info in the other sections. She has

3 progesterone creams listed that she uses in her practice.

The other is called " What Your Doctor May NOT Tell You About Menopause, "

and this guy is really the pioneer in the field...he thinks progesterone

cream cures EVERYTHING! One thing he suggested was to use the cream on

parts of the body that hurt...he doesn't know why (don't you love

doctors who admit they don't know something???) but it helps the pain.

Definitely works for me! There is a list in the back of ones that have

been tested and confirmed.

Both books are not solely about menopause, they cover a wide range of

symptoms, and both stress diet and supplements and other changes also.

Pretty much goes along with what we learn/do here.

The cream I have been using is Pro-Gest Body Cream by Emerita. My hfs

said it was their best seller, and it's in both books. I am not

financially connected with them in any way! ; )

Good luck, and hope this helps!

M

[Guest guest]

Liz...

<<,

If your still fighting high estrogen I would suggest Cod Liver Oil

for your omega 3. I found a product that works better than the Cod

Liver Oil capsules. It is called Neuromins DHA plant source. This

product improved my mind when I was having such a bad problem with

the bath products.>>

Where do you get this? I will certainly look into it because that's the

next thing I have to work on, I have all the symptoms of ADD, which get

worse each time I a-d-d another kid! ; )

<<About pain, did you catch my complaints about bath products? My

inflammation is gone now.>>

Yes! I did, and found one of my bubble baths contains it, so I didn't

use it...but I rarely do anyway. Usually just the epsom salts.

<<Do you have an idea when you need to supplement with your hormonal

cream? Like only a few weeks and which weeks, or every day like me?>>

Well...I misread the box and thought I had to start on Day 2 of my

period, so I suffered through the whole week before and didn't use

it...by the time I figured out my mistake I didn't care about the

directions on the box! So for now I'm using it every day. If I use

half the recommended dose, the pain comes back, so I'm sticking to the

higher dose for now.

<<I had an imbalance I corrected myself because doctors wouldn't even

look into it.>>

My doctor wouldn't even TEST my estrogen levels, even when I told him I

thought it was related to my cycle, and my levels had been low in the

past. Damned insurance companies. I am doing this TOTALLY on my

own...though what else is new!

<<I saw something on a talk show that sounded like me.

I didn't know about the cream at that time. >>

I actually bought these books years ago because I saw something on Oprah

and was trying to help my best friend and my mother-in-law.

<<There is hope for your family too.>>

Thanks! I'm glad you found something, too. There is so much

information OUT there, I am convinced I can fix everything around here,

if I can just absorb it all...hopefully before I die! Take care!

M ; )

______________________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

,

The one I bought is from Nature's Way. Most health food stores carry

Nature's Way products. I bought mine from vitacost.com they are very

reasonable if you have a number of things to shop for and they sell

Progest very cheap there too.

Liz D.

> Liz...

>

> <<,

It is called Neuromins DHA plant source

> Where do you get this?

[Guest guest]

Thanks, .

I think we should own stock in some of these companies

Robin

[Guest guest]

What are NK cells?

Thanks,

Robin

[Guest guest]

To jump on this thread of topic. I thought I would mention, Dr. Megson suggested

another fish oil supplement labeled DHA, I researched it, and found the added

EPA over time has been shown to lower NK cells. Not what we need for our son who

is already immune compromised. So I called her office to ask for a source of DHA

without the added EPA. They were very accommodating and the neuromins came up.

It is a DHA supplement only, and they get their source of fish oil from Martek,

hope I'm spelling that right. Anyhow, Martek is supposedly screening every batch

of fish for mercury, but their fish is also raised separately. I'm going to call

and ask for their Assays. I was told this often gets companies to " come clean "

on their product and possible mercury contamination. If they do end up sending

me the assays, I'm supposed to look for PCB's and mercury. I'll let you know

what I find. My eyes are going out on me fast, usually my peripheral vision goes

first in the evening, and I've begun to experience that dry scalp flaking thing.

Sleeping every night with a heating pad was not great, but acceptable. I've been

experiencing too many little issues though for this to remain " acceptable " . Good

luck to you guys, I too believe the answers are out there, just have to find

them.

RE:pain

Liz...

<<,

If your still fighting high estrogen I would suggest Cod Liver Oil

for your omega 3. I found a product that works better than the Cod

Liver Oil capsules. It is called Neuromins DHA plant source. This

product improved my mind when I was having such a bad problem with

the bath products.>>

Where do you get this? I will certainly look into it because that's the

next thing I have to work on, I have all the symptoms of ADD, which get

worse each time I a-d-d another kid! ; )

<<About pain, did you catch my complaints about bath products? My

inflammation is gone now.>>

Yes! I did, and found one of my bubble baths contains it, so I didn't

use it...but I rarely do anyway. Usually just the epsom salts.

<<Do you have an idea when you need to supplement with your hormonal

cream? Like only a few weeks and which weeks, or every day like me?>>

Well...I misread the box and thought I had to start on Day 2 of my

period, so I suffered through the whole week before and didn't use

it...by the time I figured out my mistake I didn't care about the

directions on the box! So for now I'm using it every day. If I use

half the recommended dose, the pain comes back, so I'm sticking to the

higher dose for now.

<<I had an imbalance I corrected myself because doctors wouldn't even

look into it.>>

My doctor wouldn't even TEST my estrogen levels, even when I told him I

thought it was related to my cycle, and my levels had been low in the

past. Damned insurance companies. I am doing this TOTALLY on my

own...though what else is new!

<<I saw something on a talk show that sounded like me.

I didn't know about the cream at that time. >>

I actually bought these books years ago because I saw something on Oprah

and was trying to help my best friend and my mother-in-law.

<<There is hope for your family too.>>

Thanks! I'm glad you found something, too. There is so much

information OUT there, I am convinced I can fix everything around here,

if I can just absorb it all...hopefully before I die! Take care!

M ; )

______________________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Have you tried taking the herb eyebright for your eyes too? I began taking

this and the pressure behind my eyes went away. Please look into that if

you haddn't tried it. Not very expensive either. Good antioxidant.

Also I liked this eye formula I bought at Vitamin World called Ocuplex.

It has eye nutrition along with some suportive vitamins and amino acids.

Liz D.

Re: RE:pain

My eyes are going out on me fast, usually my peripheral vision goes first in

the evening, and I've begun to experience that dry scalp flaking thing. Sleeping

every night with a heating pad was not great, but acceptable. I've been

experiencing too many little issues though for this to remain " acceptable " . Good

luck to you guys, I too believe the answers are out there, just have to find

them.

----- Original Message -----

[Guest guest]

Thank You. I appreciate the info., especially since I am just now delving into

my own issues.

-----

[Guest guest]

Natural Killer cells. Very important, but most important to those that have some

sort of immune dysfunction. The internet actually has some decent stuff, easy to

understand breakdown of the immune system, and specifically natural killer

cells.

Re: RE:pain

What are NK cells?

Thanks,

Robin

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone:

I am mostly a lurker but learning more and more every day. Sure glad I am

not the only one with pain. Some days are better than others and then I think

WOW, it's going away and whammy, it's back!!!

I definitely over did for Christmas and now happy to get back to a " normal "

life.

I am still only on antiinflammatories, muscle relaxers, and Darvocet N 100.

It looks like I have torn the meniscus for the third time in my knee. Wearing

a brace and keep plugging along. I have a fantastic ortho and rheumy that

keep me going.

Thanks for listening and a Happy New Year to all.

[Guest guest]

Way to go lady.Your an inspiration and I feel blessed to have you in

my life.Gentleness,Boo.

[Guest guest]

Judi,....You are stong minded woman, and that is so great. I wish

that I could be like that, I try but sometimes fail. You keep kickin

butt, take care Tawny

> Hi guys,

>

> Watch out when I start writing--usually means I've had a rough

time.

> I'm feeling better, the fever finally broke and less pain. My arm

> bled a lot last night, but fine today. Anyway, I wrote this and

it's

> what usually gets me off my rear:

>

> I have the reputation for being rather stubborn. I guess it's a

> combination of my Irish and my Norwegian background. Could just be

> I'm plain stubborn. Sometimes it's a good thing, and sometimes

it's

> not, but I'm beginning to think at this stage of life it's going to

> be a good thing. This disease I have, Dercum's Disease, (Does it

> deserve to be capitalized? Let me think about that one!) has

> necessitated five surgeries, and if I become any more ventilated

I'll

> whistle as I walk.

>

> I've met some doctors who have definitely earned their halos and

> wings already, and some others who, in my opinion, had better learn

> to appreciate flames. I've met people who are so amazing in how

they

> deal with their pain and disability that you would think that God

had

> given them the most wonderful gift. They support others, and give

of

> themselves tirelessly. So this is where this stubbornness is going

> to come in. I'm not going to give in, and I'm not going to give

> up!!! Yes, three (count `em, three!!!) exclamation points. This

> must be a gift from God, because He wouldn't do anything to hurt

> me.

>

> I'm going to keep having fun, keep living, keep worshiping, keep

> doing the things I like doing. I'm not going to dig myself into a

> hole and pull the hole in after myself. I'm going to try to help

> other people know that pain is just an attitude with an attitude.

> Sure, sometimes it's the body's way of saying you need to rest and

> recover a little, but only enough so I can be on my path again. So

> there, Mr. Pain, don't even think about standing in my way, because

> this stubborn woman is going to kick some serious butt!

>

>

> Peace,

> Judi

[Guest guest]

Tawny,

I am so sorry you are having trouble sleeping. Can you get anything

to help you sleep? I spent the better part of yesterday sleeping only

because I took a Skelaxin. Didn't do much for the pain but I slept

well all day. It's rotton when you can't even get a good night's

sleep. I pray you can catch some zzzzz's today somehow. Take care.

Chris

> I am having a terrible time sleeping now. It seems anyway I try to

> lay, is painful and almost disturbing, can't really explain it.

It's

> the upper part of my body that is giving me all the troubles. I

> can't lay on either side, because my arms start getting numb, but

so

> painful, it's like I just can't stand it.

> Please, everyone keep my in your prayers, take care Tawny

[Guest guest]

Try Germanium.

---------------------------------

Messenger - Fale com seus amigos online. Instale agora!

[Guest guest]

Hi

Hopefully, I can get some sleep tonight. I doubt if I can get

anything for sleeping until my next appointment, which will be June.

How are you doing today? Did you get to the rheumy today? Let me

know how it went, you take care Tawny

> > I am having a terrible time sleeping now. It seems anyway I try

to

> > lay, is painful and almost disturbing, can't really explain it.

> It's

> > the upper part of my body that is giving me all the troubles. I

> > can't lay on either side, because my arms start getting numb, but

> so

> > painful, it's like I just can't stand it.

> > Please, everyone keep my in your prayers, take care Tawny

[Guest guest]

I read good things about pau d'arco tea – they say it's very

efficient in treating cancer and esp. in reducing pain. Should be

from a good source and correctly prepared (capsules are pretty much

useless). See http://www.pau-d-arco.com, the owner of the site is

said to be the best pau d'arco expert in the world and he always very

promptly responds to emails. I don't know, though, if it can be

taken in conjunction with cesium since according to some the tea has

a somewhat acidic effect on the body and it's probably counter-

productive to the goal of cesium therapy. Still, since you are not

going to start your father on cesium right away you can try and give

him the tea and see if it has any positive effect.

> Hi, everyone!

>

> My father is in great pain. He is taking fentanyl and 2 to 3

injections of other opioids and 20 mg of morphine, but he feels still

some pain. All of this medication make him quite confuse, lost, with

memory problems and so on ... I am thinking about giving him some

coridalys (yanhusuo) and also Ganoderma. If this doesn't work I will

start with cesium chloride.

>

> Does anybody already tried one of those?

>

> Have you any other suggestions about pain management?

>

> Thank you!

>

> Good health for you all!

>

> Antunes

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Messenger - Communicate instantly... " Ping " your friends

today! Download Messenger Now

>

>

[Guest guest]

I would use enzymes for this purpose. They also probably

help fight cancer, but plain pancreatin or bromelain capsule

products can be taken in high doses to relieve pain, too.

I would start with 2 or 3 capsules with every meal and

2 or 3 between meals, and build up as necessary.

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1

Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 14:16:00 +0100 (BST)

From: Antunes <ps_antunes@...>

Subject: pain

Hi, everyone!

My father is in great pain. He is taking fentanyl and 2 to 3 injections of other

opioids and 20 mg of morphine, but he

feels still some pain. All of this medication make him quite confuse, lost, with

memory problems and so on ... I am

thinking about giving him some coridalys (yanhusuo) and also Ganoderma. If this

doesn't work I will start with cesium

chloride.

[Guest guest]

I get sore joints and muscles plus I have 2 bad disks in my lower back. Doing

the gels or the patch does not help with the pain. So my Dr. would add a shot

to the mix it helped get rid of the pain but drove up my E2 Estradiol it had to

be to high for over 15 yrs.

I am now just doing shots 100 mgs. every week and had my 3rd. shot yesterday I

have to say so far this is the best I have felt ever. And my E2 is not going

nuts. I had some painting done in my kitchen they got done last night and this

morning I could not wait to get in there and clean up and put things back. This

is my old self.

Phil

steve5452 <steve5452@...> wrote:

I see a lot of people mentioning pain, do many people with primary H

suffer pain and if so what sort of pain?

Sorry if this is a silly question.

Steve

[Guest guest]

Hey Phil-

As a " new guy " still waiting for diagnosis, etc, that's great news. I'm glad

you're feeling well!

-Todd

philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

I get sore joints and muscles plus I have 2 bad disks in my lower back. Doing

the gels or the patch does not help with the pain. So my Dr. would add a shot

to the mix it helped get rid of the pain but drove up my E2 Estradiol it had to

be to high for over 15 yrs.

I am now just doing shots 100 mgs. every week and had my 3rd. shot yesterday I

have to say so far this is the best I have felt ever. And my E2 is not going

nuts. I had some painting done in my kitchen they got done last night and this

morning I could not wait to get in there and clean up and put things back. This

is my old self.

Phil

steve5452 <steve5452@...> wrote:

I see a lot of people mentioning pain, do many people with primary H

suffer pain and if so what sort of pain?

Sorry if this is a silly question.

Steve

[Guest guest]

Hi Todd I think after 21 yrs. I am finely there I have to admit that the day or

2 before the shot is due I feel a little off but I am trying to get my Dr. to

let me do Hcg with the shots Dr. thinks it will help even though I am

primary he says that there are cells all over the body and in the brain that he

feels it works on. So I will give myself a 250 IU shot the 2 days before the T

shot. It does not cost that much so just give it a try can't hurt.

Here is a cut & paste.

Phil

An Update To The Crisler HCG Protocol

by Crisler, DO of www.AllThingsMale.com

(For more information on Crisler, DO and AllThingsMale.com, please click on

the above banner.)

In my paper “My Current Best Thoughts on How to Administer TRT for Men”,

published in A4M’s 2004/5 Anti-Aging Clinical Protocols, I introduced a new

protocol where small doses of Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin (HCG) are regularly

added to traditional TRT (either weekly IM testosterone cypionate or daily

cream/gel). The reasons and benefits of this protocol are as follows, along with

a new improvement I wish to share:

Any physician who administers TRT will, within the first few months of doing so,

field complaints from their patients because they are now experiencing troubling

testicular atrophy. Irrespective of the numerous and abundant benefits of TRT,

men never enjoy seeing their genitals shrinking! Testicular atrophy occurs

because the depressed LH level, secondary to the HPTA suppression TRT induces,

no longer supports them. It is well known that HCG—a Luteinizing Hormone (LH)

analog—will effectively, and dramatically, restore the testicles to previous

form and function. It accomplishes this due to shared moiety between the alpha

subunits of both hormones.

So, that satisfies an aesthetic consideration which should not be ignored. Now

let’s delve into the pharmacodynamics of the TRT medications. For those

employing injectable testosterone cypionate, the cypionate ester provides a 5-8

day half-life, depending upon the specific metabolism, activity level, and

overall health of the patient. It is now well-established that appropriate TRT

using IM injections must be dosed at weekly intervals, in order to avoid seating

the patient on a hormonal, and emotional, roller coaster. Adding in some HCG

toward the end of the weekly “cycle” compensates for the drop in serum androgen

levels by the half-life of the cypionate ester. Certainly the body thrives on

regularity, and supplementing the TRT with endogenous testosterone production at

just the right time—without inappropriately raising androgen OR estrogen (more

on that later)—approximates the excellent performance stability of transdermal

testosterone delivery systems for those who, for whatever

reason or reasons, prefer test cyp.

But there’s another metabolic reason to employ this protocol. The P450 Side

Chain Cleavage enzyme, which converts CHOL into pregnenolone at the initiation

of all three metabolic pathways CHOL serves as precursor (the sex hormones,

glucocorticoids and mineralcorticoids), is actively stimulated, or depressed, by

LH concentrations. It is intuitively consistent that during conditions of

lowered testosterone levels, commensurate increases in LH production would serve

to stimulate this conversion from CHOL into these pathways, thereby feeding more

raw material for increased hormone production. And vice versa. Thus the addition

of HCG (which also stimulates the P450scc enzyme) helps restore a more natural

balance of the hormones within this pathway in patients who are entirely, or

even partially, HPTA-suppressed.

It is important that no more than 500IU of HCG be administered on any given day.

There is only just so much stimulation possible, and exceeding that not only is

wasteful, doing so has important negative consequences. Higher doses overly

stimulate testicular aromatase, which inappropriately raises estrogen levels,

and brings on the detrimental effects of same. It also causes Leydig cell

desentization to LH, and we are therefore inducing primary hypogonadism while

perhaps treating secondary hypogonadism. 250IU QD is an effective, and safe,

dose. After all, we are merely replacing that which is lost to inhibition.

In my previous report I recommended 250IU of HCG twice per week for all TRT

patients, taken the day of, along with the day before, the weekly test cyp

injection. After looking at countless lab printouts, listening to subjective

reports from patients, and learning more about HCG, I am now shifting that

regimen forward one day. In other words, my test cyp TRT patients now take their

HCG at 250IU two days before, as well as the day immediately previous to, their

IM shot. All administer their HCG subcutaneously, and dosage may be adjusted as

necessary (I have yet to see more than 350IU per dose required).

I made this change after realizing that the previous HCG protocol was boosting

serum testosterone levels too much, as the test cyp serum concentrations rise,

approaching its peak at roughly the 72 hour mark. The original goal of

supporting serum androgen levels with HCG had overshot its mark.

Those TRT patients who prefer a transdermal testosterone, or even testosterone

pellets (although I am not in favor of same), take their HCG every third day.

They needn’t concern themselves with diminishing serum androgen levels from

their testosterone delivery system. These patients will, of course, notice an

increase in serum androgen levels above baseline.

While HCG, as sole TRT, is still considered treatment of choice for

hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism by many , my experience is that it just does not

bring the same subjective benefits as pure testosterone delivery systems do—even

when similar serum androgen levels are produced from comparable baseline values.

However, supplementing the more “traditional” TRT of transdermal, or injected,

testosterone with HCG stabilizes serum levels, prevents testicular atrophy,

helps rebalance expression of other hormones, and brings reports of greatly

increased sense of well-being and libido. My patients absolutely love it. As

time goes on, we are coming to appreciate HCG as a much more powerful--and

wonderful--hormone than previously given credit.

*Copyright Crisler, DO 2004. This article may, in its entirety or in part,

be reprinted and republished without permission, provided that credit be given

to its author, with copyright notice and www.AllThingsMale.com clearly displayed

as source. Written permission from Dr. Crisler is required for all other uses.

Dr. Crisler may be reached at:

Doctor@...

* Article by Crisler, DO of www.AllThingsMale.com .

Todd Coppernoll <aliveagain67@...> wrote:Hey Phil-

As a " new guy " still waiting for diagnosis, etc, that's great news. I'm glad

you're feeling well!

-Todd

philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

I get sore joints and muscles plus I have 2 bad disks in my lower back. Doing

the gels or the patch does not help with the pain. So my Dr. would add a shot

to the mix it helped get rid of the pain but drove up my E2 Estradiol it had to

be to high for over 15 yrs.

I am now just doing shots 100 mgs. every week and had my 3rd. shot yesterday I

have to say so far this is the best I have felt ever. And my E2 is not going

nuts. I had some painting done in my kitchen they got done last night and this

morning I could not wait to get in there and clean up and put things back. This

is my old self.

Phil

steve5452 <steve5452@...> wrote:

I see a lot of people mentioning pain, do many people with primary H

suffer pain and if so what sort of pain?

Sorry if this is a silly question.

Steve