Flu-like symptoms

[Guest guest]

Rhonda,

I had the flu like symptoms most of the summer and fall and they just left.

Just felt crappy with on and off fever like feeling, no energy, burning eyes

and stuffy nose. The whole time I took Methotrexate I had diaharrea and

thought it was just a symptom of RA but three months after I quit the Metho

I stopped having the diaharrea so I have come to the conclusion it was from

the Metho. I haven't had a problem since.

My RD also dismissed the flu like symptoms and said I must have something

else going on. He wanted me to take more metho and add sulphasalazine, so

I stopped seeing him. My gp understands my symptoms and has said a third

of us will stay like this, a third, will go into remission, and a third will

get worse. A lot of his RA patients just feel crappy all the time.

Since I have gone back on the anti inflams I have lost a lot of the

stiffness so I think we have to just experiment to see what works for us,

hopefully with guidance from our doctors.

I hope you feel better soon. I just hated feeling so crummy all the time.

The flare will end eventually and get some relief.

Hugs

Bev

rheumatic flu-like symptoms

> From: rhonda@...

>

> Hello group:

> I know that many people with RA say they have flu-like symptoms, and I am

> wondering whether anyone else suffers with vomiting and diarrhea.

> After six months I've figured out that a bad flare, for me, always starts

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 01/03/2000 2:40:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,

briarwood@... writes:

> Just felt crappy with on and off fever like feeling, no energy, burning eyes

> and stuffy nose.

sounds like your immune system is crying out for something

[Guest guest]

I'm suprised the rheumy was surprised at your symptoms Bev. I thought it

was a pretty common symptom of RA to have fever like feeling, flu symptoms,

be fatigued,etc. (although strangely enough, I have never had any of those

symptoms - just stiffness and pain). I still think there is a connection

somewhere with the stuffy nose symptoms and this disease. I first had this

stuffy congested thing happen to me back in '95 and it never left. . I will

bet you anything it was the precursor to my RA which surfaced about 2 years

later. Yet every doc I mention this to just looks at me like I'm nuts.

Well if that's the case, how come so many of us suffer from this problem?

Did anyone else out here have these congested symptoms prior to getting the

standard RA symptoms? Curious.

Mark

rheumatic flu-like symptoms

>

>

> > From: rhonda@...

> >

> > Hello group:

> > I know that many people with RA say they have flu-like symptoms, and I

am

> > wondering whether anyone else suffers with vomiting and diarrhea.

> > After six months I've figured out that a bad flare, for me, always

starts

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mark,

I rarely ever had a cold or any kind of congestion problem before RA. It

is definitely part of my RA. My former RD gave me that same " you don't

know what you're talking about " look when I said I felt fluey. At the

time, I didn't know you guys and thought I did have a lot of other problems.

Also I took Prozac previously to getting RA and have heard you can develop

RA after taking it. My hubby is lately showing signs of RA and doesn't

want to get checked. He has trigger fingers which hurt like heck when he

tries to unbend them. The RD gave him cortisone shots. His knees are worse

than mine. It could be OA which his mom had really badly. I really

believe RA is infectious.

Bev

Re: rheumatic flu-like symptoms

> From: MHOLMES@... (HOLMES, MARK T.)

> later. Yet every doc I mention this to just looks at me like I'm nuts.

> Well if that's the case, how come so many of us suffer from this problem?

> Did anyone else out here have these congested symptoms prior to getting

the

> standard RA symptoms? Curious.

>

> Mark

>

[Guest guest]

Mark, I have dermatomyositis and had bronchitis prior to my diagnosis. I

have had sinus/post nasal drip off and on all of my life. (MY dad had

allergic rhinutis). Since going on the AP it is back and does not go away.

Some days are worse than others.

I would like to ask whoever sent the url's for DHEA information, could you

please post it to me again? I thought I had saved them on my bookmarks but

cannot find them (brain fog). Thanks. Carol/Piney

bzarn@...

[Guest guest]

This post interested me because I have had a constant sinus problem since

coming down with CFS and I am positive for mycoplasma. My doctor says the

mycoplasma is harbored in the sinuses and really hard to get rid of there.

a Carnes

> From: MHOLMES@... (HOLMES, MARK T.)

>

> I'm suprised the rheumy was surprised at your symptoms Bev. I thought it

> was a pretty common symptom of RA to have fever like feeling, flu

symptoms,

> be fatigued,etc. (although strangely enough, I have never had any of

those

> symptoms - just stiffness and pain). I still think there is a connection

> somewhere with the stuffy nose symptoms and this disease. I first had

this

> stuffy congested thing happen to me back in '95 and it never left. . I

will

> bet you anything it was the precursor to my RA which surfaced about 2

years

> later. Yet every doc I mention this to just looks at me like I'm nuts.

> Well if that's the case, how come so many of us suffer from this problem?

> Did anyone else out here have these congested symptoms prior to getting

the

> standard RA symptoms? Curious.

>

> Mark

>

>

> rheumatic flu-like symptoms

> >

> >

> > > From: rhonda@...

> > >

> > > Hello group:

> > > I know that many people with RA say they have flu-like symptoms, and I

> am

> > > wondering whether anyone else suffers with vomiting and diarrhea.

> > > After six months I've figured out that a bad flare, for me, always

> starts

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

I use to get a sinus infection every year and since I started AP my

sinuses haven't bothered me.

a Carnes wrote:

>

> From: a Carnes <paulajeanne@...>

>

> This post interested me because I have had a constant sinus problem since

> coming down with CFS and I am positive for mycoplasma. My doctor says the

> mycoplasma is harbored in the sinuses and really hard to get rid of there.

> a Carnes

>

> > From: MHOLMES@... (HOLMES, MARK T.)

> >

> > I'm suprised the rheumy was surprised at your symptoms Bev. I thought it

> > was a pretty common symptom of RA to have fever like feeling, flu

> symptoms,

> > be fatigued,etc. (although strangely enough, I have never had any of

> those

> > symptoms - just stiffness and pain). I still think there is a connection

> > somewhere with the stuffy nose symptoms and this disease. I first had

> this

> > stuffy congested thing happen to me back in '95 and it never left. . I

> will

> > bet you anything it was the precursor to my RA which surfaced about 2

> years

> > later. Yet every doc I mention this to just looks at me like I'm nuts.

> > Well if that's the case, how come so many of us suffer from this problem?

> > Did anyone else out here have these congested symptoms prior to getting

> the

> > standard RA symptoms? Curious.

> >

> > Mark

> >

> >

> > rheumatic flu-like symptoms

> > >

> > >

> > > > From: rhonda@...

> > > >

> > > > Hello group:

> > > > I know that many people with RA say they have flu-like symptoms, and I

> > am

> > > > wondering whether anyone else suffers with vomiting and diarrhea.

> > > > After six months I've figured out that a bad flare, for me, always

> > starts

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

[This message contained attachments]

[Guest guest]

Janene had a flu attack which she couldn't get rid of a couple of months

before the scleroderma started. She had never been sick with colds or flu

in her life before.

Chris.

On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, HOLMES, MARK T. wrote:

> From: MHOLMES@... (HOLMES, MARK T.)

>

> I'm suprised the rheumy was surprised at your symptoms Bev. I thought it

> was a pretty common symptom of RA to have fever like feeling, flu symptoms,

> be fatigued,etc. (although strangely enough, I have never had any of those

> symptoms - just stiffness and pain). I still think there is a connection

> somewhere with the stuffy nose symptoms and this disease. I first had this

> stuffy congested thing happen to me back in '95 and it never left. . I will

> bet you anything it was the precursor to my RA which surfaced about 2 years

> later. Yet every doc I mention this to just looks at me like I'm nuts.

> Well if that's the case, how come so many of us suffer from this problem?

> Did anyone else out here have these congested symptoms prior to getting the

> standard RA symptoms? Curious.

>

> Mark

>

>

> rheumatic flu-like symptoms

> >

> >

> > > From: rhonda@...

> > >

> > > Hello group:

> > > I know that many people with RA say they have flu-like symptoms, and I

> am

> > > wondering whether anyone else suffers with vomiting and diarrhea.

> > > After six months I've figured out that a bad flare, for me, always

> starts

> >

> >

>

> >

[Guest guest]

My husband has also been complaining about stiff hands and knees. I've been

bugging him to get checked for RA too but he has not conceded to that yet.

Bev, I strongly suspect this is infectious.

Re: flu-like symptoms - I definitely get severe chills, nausea, fatigue when

flaring. Thankfully, I have not had that in quite some time. Went to see

Dr. Trentham today and he has once again lowered methotrexate so now I will

be on 2.5 mg. week along with the continued Minocin at 200 mg. day. My knees

haven't bothered me much in weeks and I'm opening jars again, holding coffee

cup with one hand. Hands still slightly sore when making fist, and I still

get fits of fatigue but then again, I push myself without enough sleep (bad

habit). Compared to 3-4 months ago when I could barely get out of bed, I am

a miracle and I thank God for the AP!!!!

Babs

[Guest guest]

Hi Babs,

Do you take anti inflamatories? I find I have good days and bad days.

When my flu-like symptoms stopped, I traded it for fatigue which comes and

goes. I find I haven't the stamina I had which could also be because I've

been a lot less active than usual because of feeling so crummy. The stuffy

nose is still with me but less than before. I am trying to work up

strength by going on my exercise bike, starting with one minute a day.

Gabe Mirkin has said exercise bikes are better than tread mills for building

up the knees and 5 minutes a day will build up your thigh muscles to protect

your knees. I am starting out at one minute a day and that is hard for me.

Bev

>

> Re: flu-like symptoms - I definitely get severe chills, nausea, fatigue

when

> flaring. Thankfully, I have not had that in quite some time. Went to see

> Dr. Trentham today and he has once again lowered methotrexate so now I

will

> be on 2.5 mg. week along with the continued Minocin at 200 mg. day. My

knees

> haven't bothered me much in weeks and I'm opening jars again, holding

coffee

> cup with one hand. Hands still slightly sore when making fist, and I

still

> get fits of fatigue but then again, I push myself without enough sleep

(bad

> habit). Compared to 3-4 months ago when I could barely get out of bed, I

am

> a miracle and I thank God for the AP!!!!

>

> Babs

>

[Guest guest]

> I really think this is infectious too, hence running in families where

> one is likely to be most exposed to the disease.

>

> However this brings up a moral question. How do we deal with not loosing

> our friends who DO believe our ideas about the infectious theory? Do we

> just avoid them when they might be run down from something or what?

> This has been bothering me lately wondering about this. And are we

> likely to get extra doses of mycos from others who have the disease? I

> suppose considering how many people around me have it I might as well

> not worry bout exposing others.....

>

>

>

HI ,

I was diagnosed with mycoplasma incognitus. I believe it is contagious at a

low level and is airborne as well as sexually transmitted. I doubt that

people I see from day to day would be exposed to it enough to catch it, but

I have taken precautions with my family. I always use very careful

sanitation while cooking. Of course, as far as my husband was concerned he

was already exposed! We had his blood tested by PCR and he remains healthy

and negative. My guess is that you have to have a weakened immune system or

maybe a genetic predisposition to become infected. But I think the concern

is real.

a Carnes

[Guest guest]

Bev: No, I no longer take any anti-inflamatories, just Tylenol Arthritis

when I need to take the edge off. Before, I was on Motrin, then Naprosyn,

then Arthrotec - all of which did nothing to help. Then it was prednisone

which I finally weaned off of while starting methotrexate.

I know you are so right in that exercise would help a lot with the fatigue -

I have not been doing much of that for so long because of the RA but now I

really need to get going, esp. to lose these extra prednisone pounds I put

on! Now that the holidays are over, I feel even more disgusted with my

weight. And just yesterday, Dr. Trentham said to make the attempt to lose at

least 5 pounds to lessen load on joints. (He's too kind - I think I should

lose 50!!)

Blimping along but will get there...

Babs

[Guest guest]

a,

That's a rather alarming quote below. Do you have some sources for that

info?

Mark

Re: rheumatic flu-like symptoms

> I was diagnosed with mycoplasma incognitus. I believe it is contagious at

a

> low level and is airborne as well as sexually transmitted

[Guest guest]

Hi Mark,

There is no doubt at all that the mycoplasmas are contagious and airborne.

For instance mycoplasmal pneumonia is common. But there seems to be a

difference between healthy people who have mycoplasma in their saliva or

urinary tract and those of us who develop mycplasma inside our white blood

cells, in bone marrow and in joint fluid. So when I say it is contagious,

there is still some difference between healthy people like my husband and

someone like me who has developed CFS and autoimmune thyroid problems.

I am sorry I don't have time to look up the actual quotes, but if you read

Hylak's website you will find plenty of information. One of the more

scary pieces of information was an outbreak of illness in a Huntsville, TX

prison where it looks like the government experimented on prisoners using

contaminated vaccines. This community in Texas now has an epidemic of

diseases like MS, ALS and CFS.

Here is an email I received from a woman named Sharon Briggs. She gives much

of the history of mycoplasma including the Huntsville Prison story. (about

2/3 down the page) If you have the time and want to read more on this her

letter is fascinating. She has used Nicolson's protocol along with several

people in her northern Cal support group for CFS. BTW many who develop CFS

are doctors, nurses, and school teachers - again a hint that this might be

contagious - whatever it is.

a Carnes

> SHASTA CFIDS

> 1780 Avenue

> Redding, CA 96002

> Tel/Fax: (530) 221-3538

> E-mail: bandb@...

>

> PUTTING THINGS INTO PERSPECTIVE

>

> Being ill since 1981 with CFIDS affords one a unique

> perspective. I have a been able to watch the chronology of CFIDS unfold

> firsthand. I have met many of the top researchers and my own blood has

> been sent to numerous research labs all over the world. My personal

> specialist is Dan , MD of Incline Village, NV. I have researched

> books and journal articles. I have attended medical conferences. I have

> talked with others who have the disease and are also support group

> leaders in a network that extends around the world. My research has not

> been limited to CFS, but includes Fibromyalgia, Multiple Chemical

> Sensitivities, Gulf War Illness, Lyme Disease, Lupus, Multiple

> Sclerosis, and others. I have viewed my illness as a unique opportunity

> to expand my knowledge base in an area of which I have extreme interest.

> I, now will attempt to give you an account of my understanding of major

> events in hopes that you will also have a better perspective.

> Editor

>

> HISTORICAL ASPECTS

> The first I knew of CFIDS was a reported epidemic, in 1975,

> involving health care workers at the Mercy San Hospital in

> Carmichael, CA. Most of those cases are still being treated by Dr.

> h Ryll of Sacramento, CA. The second, third and fourth epidemics

> occurred in the same year, 1984, the first in teachers and students at

> Truckee High School (near Incline Village, Nevada); the second at an

> elementary school in Lyndonville, New York; and the third in New

> Zealand. Three of the physicians who were involved in those outbreaks

> are still very much involved with research and treatment today (Dr's

> Dan and Cheney from NV and Dr. Bell from NY)

> In the three USA epidemics, the CDC became involved in the

> investigation. Blood studies were done on the victims. Cultures were

> taken for all known viruses, bacteria, mycoplasmas and rickettsiae, and

> all were reported to be negative. From the outset, the new disease was

> discounted by the government agencies.

> Most of the children from the NY outbreak were treated with

> antibiotics. It was not prescribed for the new disease, but rather for

> infections that occurred because of their deficient immune systems; (

> i.e., the usual things that children experience-strep throat, ear

> infections, etc.-occurred more frequently and with more serious

> complications). Perhaps, as a result, a majority of the children in the

> NY outbreak have recovered. Most of the adults from the NV and NZ

> outbreaks did not receive antibiotic treatment as a routine, however,

> and most are still very ill.

> In 1985, the physicians in NV began to see a change in the

> antibody response to the Epstein Barr Virus (EBV) in their patients. The

> test (called a titer) indicated that they had a reactivation of an old

> infection. At first, they thought they had found the cause of their new

> disease and called it Chronic EBV. But, they witnessed the EBV come and

> go, and the disease remains. It was soon evident that the Epstein Barr

> infection was only one of many viruses and fungi that would occur in

> their severely immune deficient patients.

> In 1986, the National Cancer Institute of the NIH discovered a

> new human virus that they first named HBLV, and then renamed HHV6 for

> Human Herpes Virus number 6. Most recently, this virus has been split

> into variants type A and B. There was another flurry of activity and

> claims that this virus was the cause of our disease. But, this has not

> proved to be the case, however, studies still continue.

> In 1988, the Center for Disease Control (CDC) convened a

> symposium featuring many prominent researchers of this disease from

> across the country. The name Chronic Fatigue Syndrome was officially

> coined and criteria for diagnosis were formulated.

> In 1994, CFS and Fibromyalgia support groups were merging, and

> research was indicating that the two diseases had similar laboratory

> results.

> In 1995, the CDC announced that CFS had been added to their list

> of Priority-1 New and Emerging Infectious Diseases.

> In 1996, many troops who came home sick from the Gulf War, were

> said to also exhibit the same (but, more severe) symptoms of CFIDS.

> Since the war, approximately 70,000 veterans have become ill and 8,000

> have died!

> In 1998, ten years after the first case definition was published

> and accepted by the CDC, there has been little change in the

> government's approach to the disease. In the ten years since the

> official designation of CFS, most of the research regarding our disease

> has been funded with private money. If any government funding was done,

> it was allocated for study of the epidemiology, immunology of CFS,

> and/or the psychological aspects the disease. But, virtually no federal

> funds have been granted to independent researchers for the etiology of

> the disease.

> Even though funding for the cause and cure has been absent, the

> CDC still maintains that CFIDS is a severe and life-altering disease.

> It has recently been revealed that money appropriated by congress,

> specifically earmarked for CFIDS research, was diverted into other

> programs. Dr. Reeves, in charge of CFIDS research at the CDC

> (and, at one time, thought to be part of the problem), invoked the

> protection of the Whistle-Blower's Act. This scandal exposes the

> knowledge that the CDC has intentionally misrepresented monies allocated

> to CFS research. The misrepresentations involve systematically diverting

> between $1-2 million between 1995-97. Now, the task begins to restore

> the lost funding, allocate new funding-for appropriate etiology

> studies-and help the government recognize the seriousness of this

> disease and their obligation to more than a half a million Americans who

> suffer with it every day.

>

> REVELATIONS OF PERSONAL RESEARCH

>

> Since I had a positive test for a new stealth pathogen named

> Mycoplasma fermentans incognitus three years ago, I have been curious as

> to how, why, and when I contracted it. Having been on antibiotics for

> three years, I am nearly well!!! Could this pathogen have been the

> cause for CFIDS in my case? I believe so. My research into this new

> pathogen has led me to some interesting revelations.

> Recent research has lead me to conclude that our disease is

> relatively new and emerging along with many others like Lupus, Multiple

> Sclerosis, Reactive Arthritis, Post Viral Syndrome, Lyme Disease, etc.

> My research has led me to the term " Stealth Pathogen " . A stealth

> pathogen is one that can cause infection by invading the cells, thus

> hiding from the body's immune system. Since the organism hides inside

> the cells, laboratory tests to determine their presence is difficult.

> Usual antibody tests are worthless. The only way to diagnose the problem

> is by culture and/or PCR. Often special body fluids or tissue samples

> are necessary (i.e., cerebral spinal fluid, synovial or joint fluid,

> bone marrow, glandular biopsies, muscle biopsies, etc.) The disease

> process develops slowly and the progress is marked with remissions and

> exacerbations. Along with Mycoplasma, other pathogens may fall into this

> group. Most of these are the cell wall deficient forms (also called

> L-forms or spheroblasts) of common bacteria that can cause a serious

> disease state. Lida Mattman, Ph.D. of Wayne State University, writes

> about these pathogens in her book entitled Cell Wall Deficient Forms:

> Stealth Pathogens. She explains that ordinary bacteria and fungi are

> capable of mutating to a form that lacks a cell wall. When mutated to

> this state, they are more invasive (entering cells) and more pathogenic.

> She explains that the majority of unexplained negative lab cultures

> concern infection with these cell wall deficient variants of common

> bacteria.

> In my research, I have also been interested in the autoimmune

> aspect of our disease (and others). This is easily explained if one

> understands how cell wall deficient organisms operate. Once they enter a

> cell they incorporate the cells energy source and food as their own.

> They are hidden from the body's immune system at this time. While in the

> cell, they then multiply. They leave the dead cell in search of

> another. In leaving they take a piece of the cells membrane with it.

> During the brief time out of the cell, the immune system recognizes both

> the pathogen and the body's own cell membrane and sets up a defense

> against them both. After the pathogen enters another cell, it is not

> affected by the immune system, but the reaction against the cell

> membrane sets into motion an attack on other cells of that type. Hence,

> we often have auto antibodies against our own tissues like thyroid,

> heart, muscles, joints, etc, which complicates the clinical course of

> the disease.

> In comparing the diseases caused by these " stealth pathogens " , I

> found many correlation's with CFS. There are many overlapping symptoms,

> many of he same abnormal laboratory tests, and if they are treated with

> the appropriate antibiotic-the same recovery rate. Another comparison is

> that they all " emerged " into the medical world at about the same time

> period-the past 20 years (i.e., Lupus, Multiple Sclerosis, Lyme,

> Fibromyalgia, Gulf War Syndrome).

>

> DISTURBING THOUGHTS

>

> Suspicion by a noted researcher Garth Nicolson, Ph.D. (originally of the

> M D Cancer Research Center in Texas and lately of the Institute

> for Molecular Medicine in Huntington Beach, CA) that the Mycoplasma

> fermentans incognitus was bioengineered in order to make it more

> virulent and useful for germ warfare was another revelation I was unable

> to handle, at first. While germ warfare is certainly not a subject that

> is pleasant or easy to think about, we cannot afford to bury our heads

> in the sand, either.

>

> There are several books/sources that helped to shed light on this global

> problem:

> Emerging Viruses: Aides & Ebola--Nature, Accident, or

> Intentional? By Leonard Horowitz (Can be found in the Shasta CFIDS

> library)

> The Extremely Unfortunate Skull Valley Incident, by &

> (1996) Chelmsford Pub, ISBN # 0-9692622-1-3 (705)

> 670-0180.

> The Eleventh Plague: Politics of Biological Warfare, by Leonard

> Cole. ISBN #E 0-7167-2950-4

>

> Now that Dr. Reeves has openly admitted that funds,

> earmarked by Congress for the study of CFIDS, were misappropriated by

> the CDC, the next question is WHY? Why has the CDC and NIH not funded

> any studies of suspected pathogens? Why was the diversion of funds used

> for psychological studies as the only explanation of CFIDS? Is there a

> hidden agenda? Could the diversion of CFIDS research funds be part of a

> larger governmental " cover-up " pertaining to germs engineered for war?

> Is there a connection between the testing of potential wargerms (such as

> Mycoplasmas & /or other intracellular " stealth pathogens " ) on civilian

> populations and CFIDS?

> Consider the following information supplied by Naugle of the

> Candida & Dysbiosis Information Foundation:

> * It has been legal for the last two decades for the Department of

> Defense (DOD) to test chemical and biological warfare agents on civilian

> populations without their knowledge. [united States Code Annotated,

> Title 50, War and National Defense, Chapter 32, Section 1520. Passed

> into public law on July 30, 1977; quietly repealed on Nov. 18, 1997 as

> part of the DOD 1998-99 appropriations bill, after outrage voiced by

> Gulf War Vets.]

> * Prior to 1977, the University of land conducted mycoplasma vaccine

> testing on prison inmates. [JAMA 199:353-58, Feb. 6, 1967]

> * In the early 1970's, Mycoplasma vaccines and many viral agents were

> tested on inmates of the Texas prison system by doctors affiliated with

> the University of Texas, in Houston. [Ref: " Medical Research,

> Experimentation and Pharmaceutical Testing in the Texas Department of

> Corrections " by Bozzelli, 1974 Master's Thesis, Sam

> Houston State University.]

>

> My own research into the connection between Mycoplasma and CFIDS

> has led me to a researcher by the name of Shyh-Ching Lo. His laboratory

> research has taken him to Texas and to land. In 1986, he originally

> filed a patent on Mycoplasma, with the US Patent Office. Studies

> continued until 1996 when four patents were finally granted. The patents

> involved discovery of two Mycoplasmas with unique morphological and

> pathobiological properties. It explained that these Mycoplasmas did not

> appear to be related to any other species of human or animal Mycoplasma.

> These novel Mycoplasmas were called M. penetrans and M. fermentans

> incognitus. On closer scrutiny, the patents explained that an alteration

> in their molecular structure was identified. They have had an envelope

> gene from an HIV organism inserted into its nucleus (GP 120). This would

> make the organism more invasive and harder to treat. This insertion does

> not occur naturally, but can be " forced " using specialized laboratory

> techniques.

>

> The patents further explain that:

> " These extraordinary pathogens are capable of causing chronic

> debilitating diseases and producing a variety of clinical manifestations

> and suppressing host immune defense mechanisms. "

> " Some patients who are infected with M. penetrans or M.

> fermentans incognitus can possibly be patients who have been diagnosed

> as having HIV infection, AIDS AIDS Related Complex, Chronic Fatigue

> Syndrome, Wegener's Disease, Sarcoidosis, respiratory distress syndrome,

> Kibuchi's Disease, and autoimmune diseases such as collagen vascular

> disease and Lupus and chronic debilitating diseases such as Alzheimer's

> Disease. "

>

> HOW DID SHYH-CHING LO KNOW THIS IN 1986??????? Especially since the name

> Chronic Fatigue Syndrome had not even been coined until 1988!!!

>

> These Unique Mycoplasmas were deposited with the American Type Culture

> Collection in Rockville, MD (Otherwise known as the DOD depository for

> biological warfare.)

>

> In addition I think that it is very interesting that Dr. Lo used

> one main method-the Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) to detect the

> organisms studied in his patents. He did not utilize antibody tests.

> His patents explain the pathogen's ability to reside within human tissue

> cells and evade the detection of the immune system. However, when he

> corroborated in a CFIDS study with Komaroff, MD, Bell, MD

> and Cheney, MD (three noted CFIDS researchers), it was concluded

> that CFIDS patients DID NOT have Mycoplasmal infections based on an

> antibody test. [Absence of Antibody to Mycoplasma fermentans in patients

> with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Clinical Infectious Disease,

> 17(6):1074-75 Dec, 1993.] Were the CFIDS doctors bamboozled? Those

> three independent labs that are reporting high positive results know

> that antibody tests are worthless on these strains of Mycoplasma because

> they are intracellular. Perhaps that is precisely why Lo corroborated

> with the CFIDS researchers--to falsely confirm that Mycoplasmas were not

> present in CFS patients so they would look elsewhere for a cause.

> Consequently, the results of the CFIDS/Lo corroborated study have left

> it difficult to convince the CFIDS researchers to look for Mycoplasmas

> in their patients. They refuse to believe, as valid, the high percentage

> of positives (by PCR) that those three different independent labs are

> reporting. (Reported: Institute for Molecular Medicine=75%, University

> of California-Irvine=70%, Immunosciences Lab=55%.)

>

> CONCLUSION

>

> How can we be so sure that CFIDS is not infectious if the

> government does not fund independent researchers to investigate any

> pathogenic organisms that might be present?

> Many of us with CFIDS, especially after reading the historical chronicle

> Osler's Web by Hillary (currently in the Shasta CFIDS library),

> are beginning to suspect a " cover-up " by the CDC, DOD and NIH regarding

> the CFS epidemic.

> After 23 years since the first reported epidemic, we still don't

> know much about CFIDS. Questions remain. What causes it? How is it

> transmitted? What tests can diagnose it? Who is at risk? How can it be

> treated? How can it be cured? How can it be prevented? How many people

> have it? How large is the public health threat it poses. Why does it

> continue to spread? How can it be stopped? Why does it occur in clusters

> within households and workplaces? Can the disease be passed from a woman

> to her unborn child? Can it be transmitted through breast milk? Can it

> be transmitted to or from household pets? Should persons with CFIDS

> avoid donating blood, blood products, or organs? These are just some of

> the questions we should demand an answer from our government.

>

> There is a growing network of support groups who are combining

> information and forces to try to unravel the origin of our diseases. The

> one's who are most active are:

>

> * The Mycoplasma Registry, 303 47th Street, No. J-10, San Diego, CA

> 92102-4801, (619)266-1116

> * Candida & Dysbiosis Information Foundation, PO Drawer JF, College

> Station, TX, 77841-5146, (409) 694-8687

> * The Road Back Foundation, 4985 N. Lake Hill Road, Delaware, OH,

> 43015-9249, www.roadback.org

> * Keep Hope Alive, PO Box 27041, West Allis, WI 53227

>

> I would hope that my " Perspectives " column has, at least, piqued

> your interest. I would also hope that you begin to do your own research,

> keep your mind open to new ideas and theories, and think for yourself.

> I encourage you to subscribe to several journals from national support

> groups and keep abreast of changes regarding your disease. I would also

> encourage you to develop your own network of knowledgeable CFIDS

> advocates. Do not rely upon your personal physician to answer all your

> questions. S/he cannot possibly know the answers if it is not common

> knowledge in the medical community. Do not play ostrich by sticking

> your head in the sand. If I had done that, I wouldn't be as well as I am

> today!

>

> Written by Your Editor: Sharon Briggs

> a,

> That's a rather alarming quote below. Do you have some sources for that

> info?

> Mark

>

> Re: rheumatic flu-like symptoms

>

>

> > I was diagnosed with mycoplasma incognitus. I believe it is contagious

at

> a

> > low level and is airborne as well as sexually transmitted

>

[Guest guest]

Babs,

I will check out the Tylenol Arthritis' ingredients. I would rather take

it if I can as it is one less RX at the pharmacy.

I need to lost about 50 lbs too. I know my weight gain is because I am

less active due to stiffness and fatigue. I don't get on the scale because

it is too depressing. I can tell by my clothes. I had to put a key ring

through the zipper on my jeans so I could get them up that last 1 inch. LOL

Bev

Re: rheumatic flu-like symptoms

> Bev: No, I no longer take any anti-inflamatories, just Tylenol Arthritis

> when I need to take the edge off. Before, I was on Motrin, then Naprosyn,

> then Arthrotec - all of which did nothing to help. Then it was prednisone

> which I finally weaned off of while starting methotrexate.

[Guest guest]

Briarwood wrote:

>

> Babs,

> I will check out the Tylenol Arthritis' ingredients.

I am pretty sure that Tylenol Arthritis is nothing more than tylenol in

a time released pill. If memory serves it contains like 650 mg per

tablet and it releases over an 8 hour period instead of the regular 4 to

5 hours. I don't think there is any other " medicine " other than

acetaminophen in there....

j.

------------------------------------

ph A. Graff

Director of Digital Prepress

Graphic Communications, Inc.

(301) 599-2020

" The truth will set you free, but

first it will make you miserable "

[Guest guest]

Bev: Tylenol Arthritis is a time-released acetominophen which helps me a lot

because I can take it and forget about taking them every 4 hours. Plus I do

not have to worry about decreasing effectiveness as that 4th hour comes

around. In addition, I do not get the ankle swelling/water retention

associated with anti-inflammatories such as Naprosyn or Motrin (that was a

real problem for me).

Babs

[Guest guest]

Babs,

I find the Mobiflex I take eases the pain in my feet and hands, so it must

be decreasing the inflammation, but to look at my hands and feet, they don't

look any different. I am going to give it another month and try Tylenol

Arthritis, or another anti inflammatory. I couldn't take Naprosyn, or

Naprosyn E.

Bev

[Guest guest]

Hi Rhonda,

BTW, do you live in Humboldt County, CA? Just wondering. I have lots

of family there. And that is where I was " diagnosed with Lyme Disease

in May 1999. "

I began some horrible symptoms on December 1998. For 10 days I drove

the porcelain bus in both directions. I was so sick. That began my

worst symptoms ever. After that I had a equally horrible bout with

photophobia, eye pain, eye redness, headaches and numbness from the

tip of my nose, over my entire head down to my shoulder blades. I had

severe chills -- couldn't get warm even under a blanket and down

comforter with it 80 degrees in the house [wood stove cranked up].

Then extreme fatigue and muscle aches and cramps.

--

Kiana Rossi

bornfree@...

rhonda@... wrote:

>

> From: rhonda@...

>

> Hello group:

> I know that many people with RA say they have flu-like symptoms, and I am

> wondering whether anyone else suffers with vomiting and diarrhea.

> After six months I've figured out that a bad flare, for me, always starts

> with chills and nausea. Sometimes the nausea becomes so severe I throw up.

> And I almost always have mild to severe diarrhea. After a day or two of this

> the joint pain and joint heat kick in. Oh, and of course fatigue and muscle

> weakness.

> When I've told my rheumatologist that a flare to me is being " sick, " he

> looks at me like I am strange.

> Am I? Thanks for any feedback.

> Rhonda

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Are you taking the companion nutrients and the salt loading listed on this site?

www.breastcancerchoices.org/iprotocol

Chin up! We'll figure out something.

Lynne

In a message dated 9/25/2007 6:47:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kattie1jw@... writes:

I am currently on 30 mg of Cortef for adrenal fatigue, 3 grains of armour for my thyroid and 12.5 of Iodoral but I keep having flu like symptoms. I am having a very hard time adjusting to any of it

See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

[Guest guest]

Hi Pat,

I had that the other day. 6 hours of good, sound sleep. When I woke up, my

left hand was all cramped and stuck, my fingers were swollen, the rest of my

body needed to " uncoil " . It took forever just to get out of bed, then I

needed to go back to bed because I was just so tired, I had no idea what hit

me.

It got better as the day progressed, but it took hours......I managed to go

to my little part-time job of 3 to 5 pm.....but even then when I got home, I

had to lay down, I was freezing cold, that stuck with me all day! In spite

of a long hot shower. I was more concerned about being unable to get warm.

I had the chills so bad I was shaking by the time I went to bed. My cat

actually came and slept on top of me.

Heidi in Mass.

_

In a message dated 12/11/2008 8:31:26 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

pmandell@... writes:

Does anyone have flu-like symptoms with their RA? I keep having

chills, general aches and exhaustion. I felt like this when I was

first diagnosed but it got better with Enbrel. I have found that

doctor's seem to dismiss these symptoms and so I try to down play

them. It certainly can ruin a day, though.

Sometimes I wonder if something else is going on. It would help if I

knew that others dealt with the same thing.

Thanks!

Pat

**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and

favorite sites in one place. Try it now.

(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp & icid=aolcom40vanity & ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)

[Guest guest]

Pat,

I also forgot to mention....I take Enbrel as well, and the dose this week,

caused me muscle pain, odd for me. Usually I have no reaction.

Heidi in Mass.

_

In a message dated 12/11/2008 8:31:26 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

pmandell@... writes:

Does anyone have flu-like symptoms with their RA? I keep having

chills, general aches and exhaustion. I felt like this when I was

first diagnosed but it got better with Enbrel. I have found that

doctor's seem to dismiss these symptoms and so I try to down play

them. It certainly can ruin a day, though.

Sometimes I wonder if something else is going on. It would help if I

knew that others dealt with the same thing.

Thanks!

Pat

**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and

favorite sites in one place. Try it now.

(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp & icid=aolcom40vanity & ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

Thanks for the quick reply. I am so sorry that you have felt so badly

but I am relieved to hear that I am not alone.

Take care of yourself,

Pat

>

>

> Pat,

>

> I also forgot to mention....I take Enbrel as well, and the dose

this week,

> caused me muscle pain, odd for me. Usually I have no reaction.

>

> Heidi in Mass.

> _

>

>

> In a message dated 12/11/2008 8:31:26 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> pmandell@... writes:

>

>

>

>

> Does anyone have flu-like symptoms with their RA? I keep having

> chills, general aches and exhaustion. I felt like this when I was

> first diagnosed but it got better with Enbrel. I have found that

> doctor's seem to dismiss these symptoms and so I try to down play

> them. It certainly can ruin a day, though.

>

> Sometimes I wonder if something else is going on. It would help if I

> knew that others dealt with the same thing.

>

> Thanks!

> Pat

>

>

>

> **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and

> favorite sites in one place. Try it now.

>

(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp & icid=aolcom40vanity & ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It happens to me that way.   At least in the summer I know it's the RA, but in

the winter I wonder which is it.  Often I will feel awful for the entire day and

then it will dawn on me it's the RA.

 

Joyce