Relapse

[Guest guest]

Hello Heidi

I do not know this as absolute fact but logic and picking up bits and pieces

of info over the years tells me that I think the answer must be yes, each

relapse will cause more damage because a relapse is when the antibodies

attack the liver again intending to kill it off as 'enemy'. The medication

damps down the antibodies so they do not attack but when the medication is

reduced a little too much the attack starts again.

Janet

UK

[ ] New Member

> >

> >

> >> I am an individual who has had autoimmune hepatitis for about 12

> >> years. I have been very fortunate in that most of my liver tests

> >> have been nearly normal. I was on Imuran and prednisone for a few

> >> years. Currently, I am on 5mg. of prednisone and feel I am doing

> >> very well. One attempt was made to take away meds, but that lasted

> >> all of 3 weeks when I went back to pre-treatment levels. I do feel

> >> that prednisone has affected me especially emotionally, although I'm

> >> not sure my doctor believes me.

> >> Currently, I am employed as a speech pathologist, but I need to

> >> get out of that field. I'm haveing a hard time coping with all of

> >> the illness and chronic disability I face every day.

> >> I would appreciate being in contact with others who have had the

> >> disease for long periods of time and see what some of their struggles

> >> have been. I've had my ups and downs and would like to relate to

> >> others who may have had similar issues.

> >> I look forward to participating.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

[Guest guest]

Hey everyone! I'm so depressed. I was doing so well on my new Dr.'s protocol

(energy like I haven't had in ages!) that I got cocky. Now, all of a sudden I

feel AWFUL! It seems like everything I eat has a negative effect.

Does anyone else experience like a flush that starts in the mouth and takes over

the whole body? I can't explain it but if you have it, you'll know. I think it

might be some kind of allergy. Plus, I have so much phlem!

Please let me know if ANYONE else experiences this.

Thanks.

Lynne

_____________________________________________________________

Help save rainforest or feed orphaned chimpanzees with Redjellyfish Long

Distance!

http://www.redjellyfish.com/longdistance

[Guest guest]

Lynn,

You could be experiencing what they call a " healing crisis " rather than a

relapse. The healing crisis differs from die-off, in that you are cleaning

something deeper in your body that needs to be released.

They can last up to 10 days, but getting through them by sticking to your

program and getting whatever was stuck in your body out is the best way to go.

Good luck.

Re: Relapse

Hey everyone! I'm so depressed. I was doing so well on my new Dr.'s protocol

(energy like I haven't had in ages!) that I got cocky. Now, all of a sudden I

feel AWFUL! It seems like everything I eat has a negative effect.

Does anyone else experience like a flush that starts in the mouth and takes

over the whole body? I can't explain it but if you have it, you'll know. I think

it might be some kind of allergy. Plus, I have so much phlem!

Please let me know if ANYONE else experiences this.

Thanks.

Lynne

_____________________________________________________________

Help save rainforest or feed orphaned chimpanzees with Redjellyfish Long

Distance!

http://www.redjellyfish.com/longdistance

[Guest guest]

Thanks. I hope that's it.

>Lynn,

>

>You could be experiencing what they call a " healing crisis " rather than a

relapse. The healing crisis differs from die-off, in that you are cleaning

something deeper in your body that needs to be released.

>

>They can last up to 10 days, but getting through them by sticking to your

program and getting whatever was stuck in your body out is the best way to go.

>

>Good luck.

>

>

> Re: Relapse

>

>

>

> Hey everyone! I'm so depressed. I was doing so well on my new Dr.'s protocol

(energy like I haven't had in ages!) that I got cocky. Now, all of a sudden I

feel AWFUL! It seems like everything I eat has a negative effect.

>

> Does anyone else experience like a flush that starts in the mouth and takes

over the whole body? I can't explain it but if you have it, you'll know. I think

it might be some kind of allergy. Plus, I have so much phlem!

>

> Please let me know if ANYONE else experiences this.

>

> Thanks.

>

> Lynne

>

> _____________________________________________________________

> Help save rainforest or feed orphaned chimpanzees with Redjellyfish Long

Distance!

> http://www.redjellyfish.com/longdistance

>

>

[Guest guest]

Aye, , upleasant it is. I seem to be heading for therapy again but in my

case, each time therapy was required I presented with somewhat differing sets

symptoms. Here's a brief listing:

2000. WBC: 70; abdominal lymphs nodes to 3cm; frequent minor infections and

occasional periods of fatigue.

2002. WBC: 44; general malaise; crashing platelets; abdominal nodes to 2cm.

2004: WBC:24; rapidly growing and hardening lymph nodes in neck and face;

lengthy periods of quite heavy fatigue. (Platelets OK and no CT scan as yet to

assess abdominal nodes.)

I find the current rapid rate of growth of the nodes above my shoulders to be

astonishing. Prior node growth had always seemed to be slow and steady. Make of

this what you will. I see the hem/onc on the 15th and will learn then about type

and timing of therapy.

Fred Hummel, 77, Arcata, CA;

CLL/SLL dx 1.98; Fludara 2000;

Rituxan, Fludara, Novantrone,

& Decadron, April-August 2002.

[Guest guest]

Do you know, Leela, that it has taken me a year and a half to adjust

to my new apartment ??? My worst fights with my former significant

other were when big changes occurred:) When things happen to us, we

sometimes are triggered to remember unhappy and negative events in

our lives and this is very normal too (((hugs)))

Stress goes out of the roof when any change occurs to anyone, this is

a normal reaction. You need to do things to be very good to yourself

right now and give yourself time to adjust.

LOL, I think I stopped moving my rooms around, hahhahahaha. I have a

friend who remarks every time she stops by to visit, she can always

expect that I have moved the rooms around, hahahaha.

Dana Rose

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving. I was doing well--no

anxiety

> and depression--but this weekend I moved to a new apt. and it's

come

> back. My problem with obsessing about past events has been really

bad

> for the past couple of days, and had a huge fight with my boyfriend

> because I was so depressed. Sigh.

>

> Leela

[Guest guest]

> Not good news - my AIHA has been acting up, funny numbers,

increasing lymph% counts, retic counts, all the AIHA indications - " "

,

I was sorry to read your post. Please note that I and many other

folks on this list are hoping everything will be ok for you.

I also want to thank you for ALL that you do for the CLL-SLL

community. You are one person who is making a big difference.

Sincerely,

JH Seeley

[Guest guest]

:

Sorry to hear of your problerm. I have not had the problem, but my wife and I

are finally getting over a very bad case of flu.

Regards

Gordon

jb50192@... wrote:

Not good news - my AIHA has been acting up, funny numbers, increasing lymph%

counts, retic counts, all the AIHA indications - Tonight found two big new

lumps, which would explain the resurgence of the AIHA, the CLL itself has become

active again - I plan to go back on Rituxan next week - Anyone had such

experiences before? -

[Guest guest]

Hi, I was wondering what the AIHA indications are? Can anyone explain it to me.

Thanks, Lori

Re: Relapse

> Not good news - my AIHA has been acting up, funny numbers,

increasing lymph% counts, retic counts, all the AIHA indications - " "

,

I was sorry to read your post. Please note that I and many other

folks on this list are hoping everything will be ok for you.

I also want to thank you for ALL that you do for the CLL-SLL

community. You are one person who is making a big difference.

Sincerely,

JH Seeley

[Guest guest]

Hi, ,

We're all different, and this may backfire, but for me, heat helps a

great deal. I have a hot tub now, but before that, I just used my

bath tub. Fill it with water as hot as you can stand, and soak in it.

I would drink something hot before getting in, and make sure to

continue to drink something hot/warm while I was in there so I'd stay

hydrated while I sweated.

Raising your temperature like this can help to kill off some of those

other pathogens, and can weaken the spirochetes so they too are more

easily killed.

I use a thermometer when I do it now, partly to make sure I raise my

core enough, partly to make sure I don't over-do it. I generally

raise it to 102, occasionally a bit higher. If you do try it, make

sure you have someone available to help you the first time you try it,

in case you get dizzy or faint.

Hope you feel better soon,

D.

" ashleygait " <ashleypichon@...> wrote:

>

> Hi everyone---I haven't written much of anything on this board, but

I've been doing the

> core protocol for three and a half months. I was doing really well

on it too--I went from

> functioning at 40% to 75% in just two months. i really started to

feel as if I was getting my

> life back...

>

> Unfortunately I got a terrible flu five weeks ago and whatever

semblance of health I had

> came crashing down like a house of cards. Just about every lyme

symptom I had has come

> back--muscle, neck, jaw, and back pain, clogged ears, congestion,

cognitive problems,

> fatigue, rather severe depression, an extremely compromised

immunity--I feel like I'm

> back at square one and I don 't know what to do. This is not a

herx, it's my body being

> overloaded by various infections --viral, fungal, bacterial, and

most probably parasitic! I

> feel like my entire body is overcome at the moment and I'm just

desperate.

>

> I just need to know that I'll get past this point, that this one flu

didn't kill off all my body's

> defenses forever. Has this happened to anyone else? Did you

improve after you got rid of

> the other infections? Is is possible this is a herx--I haven't

herxed once from any of the

> core herbs...seems strange that it would hit me now.

>

> Any thoughts/advice is welcome--I'm a bit of a mess lately.

>

> Thank you,

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am feeling the same but that means that your system is killing them before

your lymphatic system is draining them out...I have clogged ears and I had

stuffy nose 1 week ago( I could not breath at night ) , I felt like I was hit

by a truck , could not sleep , pain all over my body , brain fog ,jaw pain

,liver pain ( back pain is the liver overloaded )etc...But I was taking herbs

and detox and they are working.Just help yourself detox....a little ...as

mentioned...I have done hot bath tub with 1 glass apple cider vinegar to make

the body alkaline( check your ph make sure is 7 otherwise change your diet), and

the next day rotate with 1 glass Epsom salt( Walgreen start having them in blue

pack).Be careful in Epsom salt because you should not stay more than 20 minutes

..I could not stay even 5 .I almost fainted.My situation was that I had my blood

cells WBC and RBC low...so I was very very week.I just came from my

chiropractic..he uses muscle testing...he said my lymph

system is trying to get them out ( do not stop the herbs ...)....I will try the

brush ....( I am going to buy one at Whole food ) to help the lymph system

before I get to the bath tub.A sauna is going to be good for it....DRINK A lot

of water /tea...

From my understanding once you have Lyme ....our thyroid is very compromised

that makes our immune system very compromised...and every dormant bacteria that

was there will come up ..read Hulda`s book and you will understand that

when we kill some parasites there are bacteria released ( actually you did not

got the flu) you have it in your body and they are released after you killed the

adults/parasites.

We all have them 80% are invisible ...check parasites and the flu symptoms

.....below..

http://curezone.com/clark/ascaris.asp

The herbs were accumulated in the body and start killing them ...after 21 days

of full dosage they start working ...killing .You just need to detox...and slow

a little so the body can handle it.

VJ:)

DeMarco <@...> wrote:

Hi, ,

We're all different, and this may backfire, but for me, heat helps a

great deal. I have a hot tub now, but before that, I just used my

bath tub. Fill it with water as hot as you can stand, and soak in it.

I would drink something hot before getting in, and make sure to

continue to drink something hot/warm while I was in there so I'd stay

hydrated while I sweated.

Raising your temperature like this can help to kill off some of those

other pathogens, and can weaken the spirochetes so they too are more

easily killed.

I use a thermometer when I do it now, partly to make sure I raise my

core enough, partly to make sure I don't over-do it. I generally

raise it to 102, occasionally a bit higher. If you do try it, make

sure you have someone available to help you the first time you try it,

in case you get dizzy or faint.

Hope you feel better soon,

D.

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

I don't know the answer to your question but I want to offer you

encouragement and support. Terrible to feel so bad after feeling well.

I don't know much about herx's cuz I never got one.

Actually I have the flu now too and feel rotten!

But I think that even tho we have Lyme, we can get other illnesses

too. So in my case, I'm assuming I have the flu.

But I understand that you got all your symptoms back. It must be so

discouraging.

I wanted to mention because you say parasites might be a problem, that

you might do a search of our archives on parasites, because there was

a discussion of that a while back.

Best to you for fully restored state of health,

ellen

>

> Hi everyone---I haven't written much of anything on this board, but

I've been doing the

> core protocol for three and a half months. I was doing really well

on it too--I went from

> functioning at 40% to 75% in just two months. i really started to

feel as if I was getting my

> life back...

>

> Unfortunately I got a terrible flu five weeks ago and whatever

semblance of health I had

> came crashing down like a house of cards. Just about every lyme

symptom I had has come

> back--muscle, neck, jaw, and back pain, clogged ears, congestion,

cognitive problems,

> fatigue, rather severe depression, an extremely compromised

immunity--I feel like I'm

> back at square one and I don 't know what to do. This is not a

herx, it's my body being

> overloaded by various infections --viral, fungal, bacterial, and

most probably parasitic! I

> feel like my entire body is overcome at the moment and I'm just

desperate.

>

> I just need to know that I'll get past this point, that this one flu

didn't kill off all my body's

> defenses forever. Has this happened to anyone else? Did you

improve after you got rid of

> the other infections? Is is possible this is a herx--I haven't

herxed once from any of the

> core herbs...seems strange that it would hit me now.

>

> Any thoughts/advice is welcome--I'm a bit of a mess lately.

>

> Thank you,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Everyone I know who has Lyme also has a terrible time when they pick up a cold

or flu bug. A mere cold can last for weeks, in terms of recovery time.

I got the stomach flu in January and whatever was in that bug hit 3 of us with

Lyme very harshly & we have all had a sense of relapsing Lyme symptoms as well

as yo-yoing with our health: feeling better then feeling worse. We all have Lyme

& we do not live together & are not related, we are all treating our lyme

differently, but we are all having the same long-lasting 'relapse'

challenges/feelings.

Any ailment combined with already having Lyme turns into an ordeal for us.

So, don't give up - just realize it akes time, a lot more time than it does

for other people.

Edith

---------------------------------

Don't pick lemons.

See all the new 2007 cars at Autos.

[Guest guest]

,

I'm sorry you're feeling so much worse; I know how frustrating that can be to

relapse after you have started feeling well again (I tend to get overly excited

when I feel good, do too much, and end up sicker than before).

The same thing happened to me a while back; I had been starting to feel a little

better and then I caught a cold. After a couple weeks with that, I got the flu.

After the flu, it was one cold after another, so that I ended up being sick

non-stop for approximately 3 months. During the time that I had all these colds,

my Lyme symptoms really flared up on me. I spent even *more* time resting, and

took extra immune boosters (mega-doses of vitamin C, Elderberry, ProBoost, etc)

and eventually I got over it. Now my Lyme symptoms are calming down again, to

the point where I can honestly say I feel good sometimes!

Hope that at least offers you some encouragement!

-Meg

ashleygait <ashleypichon@...> wrote: Hi

everyone---I haven't written much of anything on this board, but I've been doing

the

core protocol for three and a half months. I was doing really well on it

too--I went from

functioning at 40% to 75% in just two months. i really started to feel as if I

was getting my

life back...

Unfortunately I got a terrible flu five weeks ago and whatever semblance of

health I had

came crashing down like a house of cards. Just about every lyme symptom I had

has come

back--muscle, neck, jaw, and back pain, clogged ears, congestion, cognitive

problems,

fatigue, rather severe depression, an extremely compromised immunity--I feel

like I'm

back at square one and I don 't know what to do. This is not a herx, it's my

body being

overloaded by various infections --viral, fungal, bacterial, and most probably

parasitic! I

feel like my entire body is overcome at the moment and I'm just desperate.

I just need to know that I'll get past this point, that this one flu didn't

kill off all my body's

defenses forever. Has this happened to anyone else? Did you improve after you

got rid of

the other infections? Is is possible this is a herx--I haven't herxed once

from any of the

core herbs...seems strange that it would hit me now.

Any thoughts/advice is welcome--I'm a bit of a mess lately.

Thank you,

[Guest guest]

Sorry to hear you're in trouble.

It could be excess of toxins. It was very common for me to have most

lyme symptoms back if I was loaded with toxins, my body couldn't kill

nor cleanse anymore, got literally stuck (and backward) no matter how

many herbs/ supplements I added. A body full of heavy metals/ die off

toxins is useless.

Or it could be ecossystem change.

You kill one bug, another will come up and dominate the 'emptied'

territory. You have to change killers, change protocol, kill

this 'new' dominant bug, then continue going on. For that, muscle

test was always so helpful for me. You can't just shoot all

directions at once. Impossible, because the so many herbs you take

simultaneously will 'anihilate' themselves, some herbs can block

healing (in a specific moment, while in other moments, it can help).

Sometimes, only a thorough cleansing did the job. Once body got

clean, it re-started killing by itself again.

Just guesses, of course. Is there any chance you do muscle test? The

answer can come easier than trial/ error.

Good luck,

Selma

[Guest guest]

I have been doing Buhner's Core PLUS for almost 16 months now. I had what I

think was a flu, but only bad for about 3 days last month I have had a sort of

a relapse also. I had gone from about 30 to 40% to from 80 to 95%, depending on

the days, to back to about 60% lately. I also have had those flu symptoms today

some and real tired too. Course I don't get much sleep.

I had a bad problem with mixing herbs last July and it really set me back for

several weeks. BUT I DID get better. So yes, there is hope. Keep on keeping

on.

One thing is for sure, and that is that I AM better than before I started the

herbs.

This is the first winter in about 11 years that I haven't gotten the flu shot,

so am a little concerned about it.

Jim.

###

ashleygait <ashleypichon@...> wrote:

Hi everyone---I haven't written much of anything on this board, but

I've been doing the

core protocol for three and a half months. I was doing really well on it too--I

went from

functioning at 40% to 75% in just two months. i really started to feel as if I

was getting my

life back...

Unfortunately I got a terrible flu five weeks ago and whatever semblance of

health I had

came crashing down like a house of cards. Just about every lyme symptom I had

has come

back--muscle, neck, jaw, and back pain, clogged ears, congestion, cognitive

problems,

fatigue, rather severe depression, an extremely compromised immunity--I feel

like I'm

back at square one and I don 't know what to do. This is not a herx, it's my

body being

overloaded by various infections --viral, fungal, bacterial, and most probably

parasitic! I

feel like my entire body is overcome at the moment and I'm just desperate.

I just need to know that I'll get past this point, that this one flu didn't kill

off all my body's

defenses forever. Has this happened to anyone else? Did you improve after you

got rid of

the other infections? Is is possible this is a herx--I haven't herxed once from

any of the

core herbs...seems strange that it would hit me now.

Any thoughts/advice is welcome--I'm a bit of a mess lately.

Thank you,

---------------------------------

We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love

(and love to hate): TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

[Guest guest]

Jim and , When you both first posted this I went right by it - I was

having some good days. But today I am glad this is here. The last three days I

have been feeling awful. Today is the worst. Flu-like stuff, depressed. All I

can figure is I started the Oxygen Elements with the Threelac (1 drop). The

only other new thing I was taking was the Red Root. I moved a piece of

furniture which can sometimes send my spiraling too. Go figure. I am beside

myself. Sad and a little scared. I hate these backslides. a

" R. Bayliss " <jbbigrod@...> wrote:

I have been doing Buhner's Core PLUS for almost 16 months now. I had what I

think was a flu, but only bad for about 3 days last month I have had a sort of

a relapse also. I had gone from about 30 to 40% to from 80 to 95%, depending on

the days, to back to about 60% lately. I also have had those flu symptoms today

some and real tired too. Course I don't get much sleep.

I had a bad problem with mixing herbs last July and it really set me back for

several weeks. BUT I DID get better. So yes, there is hope. Keep on keeping

on.

One thing is for sure, and that is that I AM better than before I started the

herbs.

This is the first winter in about 11 years that I haven't gotten the flu

shot, so am a little concerned about it.

Jim.

###

[Guest guest]

Thank you guys so much for taking the time to reply to this...I can't say my

symptoms are

any better, but it feels good to know I'm not the only one dealing with this--so

thank you

all...

I've started taking olive leaf extract to try to combat these bugs in me for a

while--it's

always helped me in the past when I've gotten stuck health-wise so I'm giving it

another

go. As far as muscle testing, I wonder who might do that around by me--is there

a

technical term for it so I can google and see? Also, when you say to do a

change of

protocol, do you basically not follow Burner's 100% and do what you feel your

individual

body needs at a particular point in time?

I " ve been wary of going off the protocol, becuase I know he suggests at least a

year if not

longer. However, I've always been told that using any herb for that length of

time isn't a

good idea as your body gets used to it and it's not as effective--has anyone

found this to

be the case? I did really well with andro, cats claw, etc but now it seems as

if they're

useless in the face of whatever's breeding inside me...

If anyone has any experiences/ insight I'd love to hear it--and again, thank you

all very

much for making me feel that this is normal...

Take very good care and enjoy your weekends,

[Guest guest]

,

I didn't catch the beginning of this thread, but I wanted to offer you

my insights based on what you wrote below.

I think that it is possible for organisms to adapt to substances you

have been taking for a long time. A way to avoid this might be to vary

the dose on the herb or to take a short break from it. Some herbs you

can take extended breaks from (such as ginseng), while others, such as

andrographis, you may just want to stop for a few days or a week or

so. Buhner doesn't advocate pulsing--that is, going on and then off

herbs and back on again-- but I've found it helpful for " surprising "

the bugs, as long as the " off " period isn't for too long.

I haven't done his protocol 100% because I've felt that there were

other therapies that would help me as well so I've combined these with

his herbs. Also, some of his herbs I feel are more effective for me

than others. For instance, cat's claw didn't have any effect on me,

but andrographis produced some results.

I also feel that emotional trauma has played a large role in my

symptom picture so it has been important for me to find healing

modalities outside of herbal medicine to treat this component of my

health.

In addition, I have done Rifing, the salt/C protocol on the Lyme

Strategies group, and a couple of other herbs not mentioned in

Buhner's book (although if you add adjunct therapies to Buhner's

protocol, take care to ensure that these don't add too much burden to

your body and are harmonious with B's herbs.

I also do a type of therapy that trains the immune system to find

" bugs " , and which is called Immune Response Therapy.

Finally, a year isn't a long time to be on any Lyme protocol, if you

are chronically ill. Most people need at least a couple of years of

doing all the right stuff, to attain health. And those who have done

Buhner's protocol have been on it for that long, even much longer, and

still received good benefits from it.

Where do you live? I know of a good ART practitioner in Seattle. Let

me know if you would like her info.

Best wishes for your healing,

Connie

www.lymebytes.blogspot.com

> Thank you guys so much for taking the time to reply to this...I

can't say my symptoms are

> any better, but it feels good to know I'm not the only one dealing

with this--so thank you

> all...

>

> I've started taking olive leaf extract to try to combat these bugs

in me for a while--it's

> always helped me in the past when I've gotten stuck health-wise so

I'm giving it another

> go. As far as muscle testing, I wonder who might do that around by

me--is there a

> technical term for it so I can google and see? Also, when you say

to do a change of

> protocol, do you basically not follow Burner's 100% and do what you

feel your individual

> body needs at a particular point in time?

>

> I " ve been wary of going off the protocol, becuase I know he suggests

at least a year if not

> longer. However, I've always been told that using any herb for that

length of time isn't a

> good idea as your body gets used to it and it's not as

effective--has anyone found this to

> be the case? I did really well with andro, cats claw, etc but now

it seems as if they're

> useless in the face of whatever's breeding inside me...

>

> If anyone has any experiences/ insight I'd love to hear it--and

again, thank you all very

> much for making me feel that this is normal...

>

> Take very good care and enjoy your weekends,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Connie--I really appreciate your thoughts on this...I had a long

battle with

systemic candida years ago and am familiar with the different layers of healing

thankfully--I

guess i just didn't expect it from Lyme, don't ask me why--wishful thinking

maybe?

I actually went off of the ginseng for two weeks and have just added it back,

and I feel that

going on and off some of these other herbs will probably benefit me in some way,

as this is

always how I have used herbal protocols with success. Right now I'm going to

give the olive

leaf extract a go and see if that, in conjuction with Buhner's, will help. I

also know I need to

find an ND in NY who will work through this with me...

Thanks again for all your thoughts everyone--this is a great place to be when

you're unsure

of what the future may bring. Cheers to all of you,

[Guest guest]

>

Hi ,

You are welcome.

I wish you well in finding a ND in NY. I don't know of an ND there but

Dr. Zhang, MD, who uses modern chinese medicine to heal Lyme is in NY,

in case you want to look him up. He doesn't do Buhner's protocol (he

has his own herbal protocol) but he might be able to offer you some

helpful insights for healing in any case.

Take care, Connie

> Thank you Connie--I really appreciate your thoughts on this...I had

a long battle with

> systemic candida years ago and am familiar with the different layers

of healing thankfully--I

> guess i just didn't expect it from Lyme, don't ask me why--wishful

thinking maybe?

>

> I actually went off of the ginseng for two weeks and have just added

it back, and I feel that

> going on and off some of these other herbs will probably benefit me

in some way, as this is

> always how I have used herbal protocols with success. Right now I'm

going to give the olive

> leaf extract a go and see if that, in conjuction with Buhner's, will

help. I also know I need to

> find an ND in NY who will work through this with me...

>

> Thanks again for all your thoughts everyone--this is a great place

to be when you're unsure

> of what the future may bring. Cheers to all of you,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Be careful!

I started the same thing on November 2005 and felt the same.I could not even

take 1/10 of Threlac.Based on Hulda`s book she was so surprised that she can

find not only metals but even the elements that are on the list of Oxygen

Elements ...and that surprised how people take these supplemetns that are

dangerous ( that are listed in Oxygen elements ) and my thought ...I stopped it

because this is not a GOOD SEND thing , this is a man made ..thing.

I would be careful about the Oxygen element.I questioned almost 1 1/2 ago the

person that was selling it and she did not know more about the safety of the

elements she refered me to the company that was producing it. I linked the fact

and did some search back than I stopped using it.I still have it in my shelf but

I did not used it except Three-lax and I did not purchased Three-lax because of

some controversy that I found at CUREZONE ...largest forum.Go there and read

about it.Google...Curezone and read ,there is so much info....

That is my suggestion.But you feel free to make your own decision.

Good LUCK!

VJ:)

a Sistare <healed_14@...> wrote:

Jim and , When you both first posted this I went right by it - I

was having some good days. But today I am glad this is here. The last three days

I have been feeling awful. Today is the worst. Flu-like stuff, depressed. All I

can figure is I started the Oxygen Elements with the Threelac (1 drop). The only

other new thing I was taking was the Red Root. I moved a piece of furniture

which can sometimes send my spiraling too. Go figure. I am beside myself. Sad

and a little scared. I hate these backslides. a

" R. Bayliss " <jbbigrod@...> wrote: I have been doing Buhner's Core

PLUS for almost 16 months now. I had what I think was a flu, but only bad for

about 3 days last month I have had a sort of a relapse also. I had gone from

about 30 to 40% to from 80 to 95%, depending on the days, to back to about 60%

lately. I also have had those flu symptoms today some and real tired too. Course

I don't get much sleep.

I had a bad problem with mixing herbs last July and it really set me back for

several weeks. BUT I DID get better. So yes, there is hope. Keep on keeping on.

One thing is for sure, and that is that I AM better than before I started the

herbs.

This is the first winter in about 11 years that I haven't gotten the flu shot,

so am a little concerned about it.

Jim.

###

[Guest guest]

Hi a--boy do I know what you mean about feeling depressed when this

hits--it's not

even the emotional part that gets me so down, it's the physical effect that germ

overload has

on my system and it's just enough to make me stay in bed for weeks on end--Good

thing I

have to work or I swear some days...

In any case, I am happy to report I'm actually feeling a little better--I

started OLE about a

week ago and it seems to be helping a bit--as for starting threelac or any

antifungal--you

will likely have some die off from that too--maybe lessen your dosage until

you're feeling a

little better. It's such a roller coaster this business isn't it?

I wish you health and good, positive thoughts,

[Guest guest]

Yes, it takes 1 month for every year you've been sick

to cure this, and you may have to continue longer than

that to some extent to keep the problem from coming

back.

For me I learned to make this a lifestyle change and

not just a diet, and so because of that I'm not

rushing to get to a particular goal, because being at

goal for me won't be much more different than how

things are for me now.

Luv,

Debby

San , CA

--- Jeanne Finn <uncletomsgarden@...> wrote:

> Well, after being on the diet for 4 weeks, I was

> feeling back to

> good health. I actually had my energy back, and

> resumed my water

> aerobics class, followed by 1 hour of laps. For the

> past 4 weeks, I

> was barely able to drag myself out of bed, to the

> pool, at the most

> every other day, and put on a floation belt and kick

> around in the

> deep water. So I was so happy to be feeling up to

> it again.

-------------

Most people won't change until the pain of where they are exceeds the pain of

change. Being willing to delay pleasure for a greater result is a sign of

maturity. -- Dave Ramsey

My son Hunter Hudson (10/11/04) http://debbypadilla.0catch.com/hunter/

Heal yourself with nutrition: http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com

[Guest guest]

>

> Did anyone experienced a relapse after going through full treatment?

>

> Thanks.

>

my husband relapsed. We do believe that the treatment at least slowed down the

progression of cirrhosis, but he is detectable. It's discouraging isn't it?