Lab results

[Guest guest]

rheumatic lab results

>From: arjay <arjay@...>

>

>Hi All

>

>I got my labs back yesterday and they were quite abit worse---RATS!!! I

>have been feeling pretty good and had expected them to improve. My RF

>was 301, I'm not sure exactly how that compares to my first one because

>it was 1:20, but the first one was just barely positive and this is alot

>more. My ANA was 1:80 up from 1:40, they didn't do my sed rate so the

>dr did it in his office and I don't know what it is yet probably should

>have called today and asked. I do know labs can go up while you feel

>better, but it's still scarey when they do. Besides those being up I

>have the beginnings of a yeast problem and my " droppings " didn't show

>any acidophilis so maybe my brand isn't working. The dr said to wait

>more than 2 hours after the minocin to take it. Both my stool test and

>blood test showed too much yeast so I ordered a case of oliveleaf from

>East Park today.I really like Dr Correl and recommend him to anyone in

>the Spokane, WA area. He's about 90 minutes from me. He has used

>hydrogen peroxide IV's on RA patients with good results he recommends 10

>treatments once a week to start to see how it works. Each treatment

>costs $55 and isn't covered by insurance. If my yeast problem gets bad

>it will be something to try. It's suppose to help the RA and kill off

>the yeast. One problem is they are done in his office so it would be a

>long drive every week, wish a home nurse could do them.

>

>Dr Correl also talked me into estrogen again he did a urine test that

>showed I was breaking down bone faster than I should. He prescribed a

>liquid estrogen 4-10 drops twice aday he gave me a sheet to tell by my

>reaction how much I want to take--that's pretty cool. He also gave me a

>form of prescription progesterone it's a lozenger again I can adjust the

>dose. Oh LizG you were right I don't need extra testoterone. In a

>month he wants me to see their hormone person about how I'm doing. Next

>week I was suppose to get an appt with their dietition, but I don't want

>to run in every week. I thought I'd try the diet for awhile. He

>recommends the book Protein Power and that diet, I'm trying it, but

>missing fruit.

>

>Anyone know how bad a RF of 301 is?

>

>

Hi - re. your 1st and last questions.

When I started the AP Oct 98, my RF was 727. A few months into therapy I was

feeling a lot better, and blood work done Jan 99 showed RF dropped to 600, and

SED was 60. I was floating on a cloud! Then I started feeling really

shitty...worse than when I started AP. Blood work April 99 showed RF up to 895,

and SED 81. Big Herx!

Continued feeling really bad, and it seemed everyday something was getting

worse. But eventually I felt like I had reached a plateau - I wasn't getting any

better, but I was not getting any worse either, or so it seemed. Latest blood

work July 99 showed RF at 799 and SED at 55!!!

Well, I don't know how bad RF 301 is - I don't know what condition someone else

with my numbers is in; sometimes it seems that I'm no worse off than those with

much lower numbers - sometimes I think no one can possibly be as bad as I am

(but that's when I'm kinda feeling sorry for myself!) HAVE FAITH!

Be well,

>ONElist: your connection to online communities.

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/6/99 6:33:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

arjay@... writes:

<< Anyone know how bad a RF of 301 is? >>

Hi ,

301 is bad bad. Mine last month was 365 but a year ago it was over 700 so go

figure. I can't remember unless I go in and look at my diary to see how bad

I was the day I had my last labs. My ESR was only 21 which is in the normal

range. Feeling so lousy I'm beginning to think maybe they got my blood mixed

up with someone elses. LOL

The report also said that rates after more than 8 hours after blood is drawn

are not reflecting the true value of the patient. Have never had that

disclaimer on my lab reports before either.

Good luck kiddo, Anita

[Guest guest]

,

Congrats from another Canuck, I'm always to glad to hear of someone's

success. Keep up the good work and I hope you just keep getting better

every day.

Hugs,

a Peden

[Guest guest]

Hi - Glad to hear of your improvement. If I understand your email -

your doctor wasn't sure if the ANA change from 1:160 to 1:80 is an

improvement???? Did I interpret you right? If that's what you asked.

Yes....definitely it is an improvement. A normal ANA is anything *less*

than 1:40. The ANA results

increase in doubles. So it goes like this 1:40, 1:80, 1:160, 1:320, 1:640,

1:1280, 1:2560, 1:5120,

1:10,240, 1:20,480,1:40,960......(hope I got the math right!) Most labs

quit counting when they reach 40,960

.. BTW my ANA score was 1:40.960....(off the chart) and after 3 years of AP

it has decreased to

1:1280. I am very happy.....but I'm looking forward to 160 and 80 and

finally normal!!!!

Hope you keep on with improvement. Love Judy (scleroderma 10+ yrs. Ap 3

yrs)

[Guest guest]

Are you in Ontario?

rheumatic lab results

From: Eugene Rizun <eugene.rizun@...>

Hi everyone. I'm a Canadian, but Thursday (Thanksgiving Day) I had a

lot to be thankful for. I started the ap Nov/98 and had the necessary

blood tests done then and again one week ago to see if any improvement.

Physically I have tremendous improvement. I can do things now that were

impossible a year ago. Anyway, back to the blood tests. My family dr.

was reluctant to give me the scripts for the minocyclin and clindamycin

(oral) but she did after I showed her all the info from the website. My

sed rate last year was 28 and it's now down to 25, and the ana was 1.160

and is now 1.80. My dr. does not know if the ana is better (is it).

You know she was pretty anxious to see the results of the sed rate, and

she was so excited she called me herself when she got the results. So

am I, and she even gave me another script for a years supply for both

meds. Mado if you read this, please send me your email address. Thanks

to Ethel, Donna and all you wonderful people in this group for

your kind support and information. You really boose everyone's morale.

This is another success story for the ap. Yeah.

[Guest guest]

YAY! HEre's to you.

Glad you're doing great.We all like the encouragement.

ENjoy your good health.

[Guest guest]

Hi Marilyn,

It looks to me like when you were diagnosed you were in the early stages of

Graves' disease. That's why your levels in June and July seem odd. It takes

about 6 weeks for TSH to reflect the changes in thyroid hormone and T3 may

also lag a bit behind T4 since most T3 is made from T4 in the body. GD is

marked by periods of variable severity and remission. Your symptoms were

probably waxing and waning and this can be seen by your T3 dropping in July

and your TSH rising. Diet, stress, hormones, even the phase in your menstrual

cycle could have effected your thyroid status and thyroid levels here.

As for your recent test, your carbimazole is definitely working and the

change alone in T4 can cause you to have hypo symptoms. Usually here,

depending on the doc, your Carb dose is reduced to prevent your from becoming

hypo. The fact that you were already off of it a week implies that your T4

was probably lower from the carb.

Likely, before you started on Carb in September, your thyroid hormone levels

rose and your TSH dropped to non-detectable levels. Without any test results

though, this is just supposition. And I'm supposing you probably had worse

symptoms then (most GD cases emerge in August, probably due to allergy

season) and that's why you were put on the Carbimazole. Anyway, your T4

levels probably started to drop about 2-4 weeks after you started the

Carbimazole, and there hasn't been enough time for these changes to show up

in your TSH level. Although it's a minimum of 6 weeks for TSH to start

reflecting the thyroid hormone level changes, for many people it takes many

weeks to many months for TSH to start rising again.

As for your CBC, you're bordering on being anemic, but that's not unusual in

GD patients. Proper diet and normal thyroid function will help edge those

numbers up. Your white blood cell count is normal, showing that your not

developing neutropenia from the Carbimazole. The lowered segs, higher lymphs

and higher eos show that you're likely having allergic reactions to

something. Eos, in particular, are associated with an allergic response.

lowered segs and higher lymphs also show up from viruses, but combined with

the eos, it looks more like allergies.

For now, you may not need to be on the carb, but your doc might still want

you to be on it at a reduced dose. A lot depends on your symptoms too. If

they are mild, you may respond nicely to changes in diet (adding goitrogens),

following john's supplement protocol, and using stress reduction techniques.

Let us know what you decide.

Visit my Web Site at http://daisyelaine_co.tripod.com/gravesdisease/

[Guest guest]

Dear Elaine and everybody out there,

Thank you so much for your inputs and your prompt reply, I truly appreciate

your help.

Yes, I think my hyperT started last January when my weight started to drop.

Then I had severe diarrhea in May. I was diagnosed to have HyperT in the

early part of June and this was when I started to feel the rapid heart rate,

weakness, breathlessness, scartchy and tremory eyes and leg. So I had the

first lab result and then I tried acupuncture. This was everyday for about 2

weeks and then I stopped and after a month, went back to acupuncture. Maybe

that explains the erratic data for the first two lab results. After my 34th

acupuncture treatment, that was late August, I turned back to Carbimazole in

September, this time regularly for 15 mg/day, then with 's help, the

minerals and vitamins.

During the early part of July I also noticed my blood sugar to be a bit

beyond the maximum range, and I was always anemic and experienced fainting

spells since I was a child.

For November I noticed the weight gain and the slight puffy eyelids, and I

was thinking maybe I'm getting hypo until this was confiirmed in your

interpretation. So Now I'm going to stop taking the carbimazole, and lower

the copper, take little iron and a little of the zinc too. Maybe I'll

indulge a little in chocolates and ice cream and etc... especially this

holiday season...

I'm just sorry I don't have an initial CBC reading for comparison so that I

may know if I've improved in my hemoglobin reading, but I'm happy to know

that I'm not having any adverse reaction to Carbimazole but only slight

allergies...My last menstrual flow has also been lighter than the previous

but it's still shortened to 3 days as observed since June. My breathlessness

has disappeared and I rarely feel the fatigue nowadays. I hope that I can

raise my T4 and TSH levels to the midrange soon, cross my fingers and

toes.....

So again my special thanks to you and everybody else out there!!!!

Be happy and well soon!

marilyn

Re: Lab results

>Hi Marilyn,

>It looks to me like when you were diagnosed you were in the early stages of

>Graves' disease. That's why your levels in June and July seem odd. It takes

>about 6 weeks for TSH to reflect the changes in thyroid hormone and T3 may

>also lag a bit behind T4 since most T3 is made from T4 in the body. GD is

>marked by periods of variable severity and remission. Your symptoms were

>probably waxing and waning and this can be seen by your T3 dropping in July

>and your TSH rising. Diet, stress, hormones, even the phase in your

menstrual

>cycle could have effected your thyroid status and thyroid levels here.

>As for your recent test, your carbimazole is definitely working and the

>change alone in T4 can cause you to have hypo symptoms. Usually here,

>depending on the doc, your Carb dose is reduced to prevent your from

becoming

>hypo. The fact that you were already off of it a week implies that your T4

>was probably lower from the carb.

>

>Likely, before you started on Carb in September, your thyroid hormone

levels

>rose and your TSH dropped to non-detectable levels. Without any test

results

>though, this is just supposition. And I'm supposing you probably had worse

>symptoms then (most GD cases emerge in August, probably due to allergy

>season) and that's why you were put on the Carbimazole. Anyway, your T4

>levels probably started to drop about 2-4 weeks after you started the

>Carbimazole, and there hasn't been enough time for these changes to show up

>in your TSH level. Although it's a minimum of 6 weeks for TSH to start

>reflecting the thyroid hormone level changes, for many people it takes many

>weeks to many months for TSH to start rising again.

>

>As for your CBC, you're bordering on being anemic, but that's not unusual

in

>GD patients. Proper diet and normal thyroid function will help edge those

>numbers up. Your white blood cell count is normal, showing that your not

>developing neutropenia from the Carbimazole. The lowered segs, higher

lymphs

>and higher eos show that you're likely having allergic reactions to

>something. Eos, in particular, are associated with an allergic response.

>lowered segs and higher lymphs also show up from viruses, but combined with

>the eos, it looks more like allergies.

>

>For now, you may not need to be on the carb, but your doc might still want

>you to be on it at a reduced dose. A lot depends on your symptoms too. If

>they are mild, you may respond nicely to changes in diet (adding

goitrogens),

>following john's supplement protocol, and using stress reduction

techniques.

>Let us know what you decide.

>

>Visit my Web Site at http://daisyelaine_co.tripod.com/gravesdisease/

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/5/01 9:42:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, lrb@... writes:

The stress of the custody battle for my granddaughter as well as the

financial burden it has put on us is the most difficult thing I deal

with. On the positive side, I'm reading Hamlet again and am amazed at

Shakespeare's scope. I do love literature. Any other literature buffs

out there?

One of the things that appeals to me about Shakespeare is the reminder it gives us that the joys and difficulties we go through are timeless. Decade after decade, century after century, people face the same problems, clothed in different circumstances. We search for ways to transcend these difficulties, if only for a moment.

I'm sorry you have to go through all this.

Harper

[Guest guest]

Dear Cheryl,

I am so sorry. Things just HAVE to get better for you. Your lab results are

probably the result of stress. Stress can do awful things to your body.

Hang in there, think positive thoughts.

Debbie (Tommy's Mom)

> [Original Message]

> From: Cheryl <lrb@...>

> Liver Support Group < >

> Date: 2/6/01 12:39:33 AM

> Subject: [ ] lab results

>

> Hey all,

> You might remember that two weeks ago they lowered my pred to 30 and

> started me on 100mg of Imuran. Well, my LFTs have gone up--my

> alkaline

> phosphates have gone up about 100 and my AST 100, but my ALT stayed

> within 10. I'm kind of discouraged since for the last two months

> they've

> been slowly coming down. Bummer. Also today, I found drug

> paraphernalia

> in my daughter's stuff. Of course, it's not hers. I'm feeling low.

> I'm

> happy you got good news, Harper. I sure hope your fatique gets

> better.

> I am having so much trouble staying on task. I'm very behind in

> my

> grading and in my filing at school. I am going to have a bone

> density

> test done on Feb. 8th, Thursday, and I'm taking the whole day off

> school. Oddly enough, I haven't stayed home sick except one day. I

> had

> diarrhea so bad that day that I thought I would die. I even went to

> school, thinking it would go away, and then I had to get a sub. I

> have

> missed a bit of school with appointments, tests, lawyers, and court

> dates though. But I'm so tired. I sometimes can hardly get out of

> bed.

> I'm afraid that one morning I just won't be able to.

> The stress of the custody battle for my granddaughter as well as

> the

> financial burden it has put on us is the most difficult thing I deal

> with. On the positive side, I'm reading Hamlet again and am amazed

> at

> Shakespeare's scope. I do love literature. Any other literature

> buffs

> out there?

> Oh shoot! My addict daughter just called to tell me she is at a

> friend's house. When I tried to talk to her, she became very nasty

> and

> said such cruel things to me. So now I've started on a crying jag

> and

> can't stop. I sometimes wonder how much more I can handle before I

> just

> can't do it anymore. I know I won't quit, but how much more can my

> body

> and mind take? I think this stress is part of the reason my labs

> aren't

> going down. I haven't told you half of the legal battles we're going

> through. Well, regardless, I am praying for us all. I haven't given

> up.

> Thanks for being there. Cheryl ID

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

flatcat9@... wrote:

In a message

dated 2/5/01 9:42:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, lrb@...

writes:

The

stress of the custody battle for my granddaughter as well as the

financial burden

it has put on us is the most difficult thing I deal

with. On the

positive side, I'm reading Hamlet again and am amazed at

Shakespeare's

scope. I do love literature. Any other literature buffs

out there

?

One of the things

that appeals to me about Shakespeare is the reminder it

gives us that

the joys and difficulties we go through are timeless. Decade

after decade,

century after century, people face the same problems, clothed

in different

circumstances. We search for ways to transcend these

difficulties,

if only for a moment.

I'm sorry you

have to go through all this.

Harper

[Guest guest]

,

Wish I could have put it as well as you did. Thanks.

In health,

Mark Schauss

www.cellmatewellness.com

[ ] lab results

> I've been following this discussion and agree with Andy-don't blame

> the lab for following the law. They are just covering their backside

> so they don't get sued. The problem lies with the doctors. As with

> all things involving our kids, you have to be clear in your

> expectations. Whenever I see a new doctor who will be running tests,

> I make it very clear, upfront, that I want copies of everything sent

> to me BEFORE the next appointment so that I have an opportunity to

> review them, prepare a list of questions, etc. I have never had a

> doctor who wasn't willing to comply. But if I had, I simply wouldn't

> have used him. I used to get upset with doctors for leaving me 'out

> of the loop' so to speak. Then I realised that maybe they just

> assumed that's what I wanted. When I started to be a little more

> proactive, explaining to them upfront that I expected it to be a

> partnership and that I wanted a clear rationale for why he wanted to

> run a specific test or implement a therapy, and that I would have the

> final say, I have to say they've always gone along without a fuss.

> Maybe I've just been lucky and had receptive doctors. But I think if

> you are willing to lay out your expectations, most doctors are happy

> to comply. It's worth a try.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

gefox@... wrote:

Cheryl.... check with your doctor to make sure the gain in your legs

isn`t edema. The first thing my doctor used to do is feel my ankles.

I`m better than I have a right to be . Don`t know why but who am I to

question. Just tired a lot. Good luck on your tests. Hope the labs are

good.

Jerry

[Guest guest]

<A HREF= " http://www.carbonbased.com/Definitions.htm " >Blood Chemistry

Definitions</A>

Kay,

I believe that everyone should get a copy of your lab results every time. At

times the doctors miss things or they will tell you something you feel you

should have known a long time before. You would be amazed at how much you

will learn about your lab results. This site has helped me a great deal to

learn about lab values and understand terms. If this doesn't come through I

will send it privately.

gayle trans/6-99 ^oo^

galye@...

[Guest guest]

Hello Heidi,

I compared the 2 notes you sent (this one w/results and

the other with ref ranges) to figure out which things

were out of range. This is a bit tricky to manage, so

you should really check to see if I got this right.

I think your test result has the following out of range:

HIGH

magnesium

copper

zinc

vanadium

molybendum

phosphorus

selenium

stronium

sulfur

titanium

zirconium

LOW

sodium

potassium

manganese

cobalt

boron

rubidium

Like I said, check to see if I got that correct.

Caveat: I am not a <medical-anything>, and I have not even seen very

many hair test results--- only a handful posted on the list and my own.

The number of HIGH and LOW readings on your test sure sounds like exactly

what the COUNTING RULES is talking about to me. You have HIGHS and LOWS

all over the place. If you haven't read the counting rules, you should

do so. It is worth understanding the idea about messed up " mineral

transport " and how that relates. (The file is posted here:

/files/Counting%2BRules

Actually, to apply the counting rules to your test results, one needs

the piece of paper--- it has some kind of columns that show how far

out of the norm the results are---

I have (in the past!) encouraged people to post their hair test results

if they have trouble applying the counting rules. That was before I

really tried it, and learned that the piece of paper is needed.

best,

Moria

p.s. I don't have ref ranges for the toxic metals, so I don't know

if any of those are high. Look and see!

At 08:15 PM 4/4/2001 -0700, you wrote:

>Andy,

> HI,I'm relatively new to the list and am waiting

>for our appt.for hair analysis.i've come across lab

>results from 10-20-98,could you please look thesr

>over,and give me your opinion,on what our next step

>might be.Thank You in advance,Sincerely,

> Heidi

>Colonnese

>p.s.his D.O.B. is 3-9-93

>and this test was through DOCTORS DATA

>

>

>

>

>

>

>Aluminum 21

>Antimony 0.085

>Arsenic 0.108

>Beryllium <dl .002

>Bismuth 0.015

>Cadium 0.052

>Lead 0.7

>Mercury 0.56 RATIOS

>Nickel 0.15 CA/MG 4.5

>Platinum <dl. .001 CA/P 0.7

>Silver 0.26 MG/K 8.1

>Thallium <dl. .001 NA/K 2.2

>Thorim <dl. .001 ZN/CU 5.8

>Tin 0.1 ZN/CD >999

>Uranium 0.225

>

>

>Calcium 180

>Magnesium 40

>Sodium 11

>Potassium 5

>Copper 38

>Zinc 218

>Iron 11

>Manganese 0.10

>Chromium 0.42

>Cobalt 0.017

>Vanadium 0.196

>Molybdenum 0.163

>Boron 0.55

>Iodine 0.9

>Lithium 0.012

>Phosphorus 273

>Selenium 2.176

>Strontium 1.17

>Sulphur 58392

>

>Barium 1.37

>Germanium 0.017

>Rubidium 0.003

>Titanium 0.899

>Zirconium 0.675

>

>__________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , <br><br>Do you know what your doctor

considers a normal range? The range my doctor uses must be

different from yours, and I think that makes it really hard

to understand. Those numbers don't look right to me,

but they may be fine according to YOUR doctor.

<br><br>If your really not feeling well and he/she's not

listening, why not try a second opinion? At least to rule

out some other cause for your lack of energy. I hope

your feeling better soon.<br><br>Debbie

[Guest guest]

Debbie,<br>My doctor didn't give me the " normals "

this time, but I'm seeing her on the 30th. I'm just

hoping she'll go by how I feel more than what my numbers

say. I also hope she won't just say it is my

fibromyalgia. I really am beginning to believe that this is all

related and in fixing my thyroid I will feel better all

over. Has anyone else been diagnosed with fibro as

well?<br><br>

[Guest guest]

I think it's real important to have a doctor who

will listen to how you " feel, " and not just what's

supposed to be " normal. " Sometimes they're hard to find. I

don't have fibromyalgia, fortunuately, but I've read

that it can be painful.<br><br>Good luck and I hope

your feeling better soon. <br><br>Debbie

[Guest guest]

Your WBC should NOT be that low. That is just way

too low. They need too cut back the Riba. The WBC

shoul not be allowed to go below 3.0. I would not wait

another 2 weeks for it to be tested again. They need to

do something now.<br><br>Your platelets are not

normal but they are in a great range for being on

treatment. Mine are down to 58 so you are doing fine in that

respect. And of course, your LFT's look

FANTASTIC!!<br><br>Call the doc and suggest lowering the riba. Don't wait

another 2 weeks.<br><br>LeighAnn

[Guest guest]

Grandslam,<br><br>I asked my endo about this

effect a year ago. She told me that exogenous t may

increase the free level disproportionately. I didn't ask

why.<br><br>Since your total t is fairly low, your estradiol levels

are also probably rather low. Elevated e's are known

to drive up SHBG. Perhaps you have both low e's and

low SHBG giving you a comparatively high free t

level.<br><br>Just a thought.<br><br><br>BTW Are you asymptomatic or

are you seeking higher doses/t levels?<br><br>Brad

[Guest guest]

Brad, thanks...<br><br>Can you run over SHBG and

how it works again?<br><br>I'd like to have a serum T

that's well into the normal range, if not at what would

be an optimal<br>level.<br><br>It's my understanding

that- as with people I know who have thyroid

difficulties- that being just<br>over the borderline into the

low normal range<br>can indicate that higher doses

are in order.<br><br>Grandslam

[Guest guest]

Grandslam,<br><br>SHBG stands for sex hormone

binding globulin.<br><br>Total T includes<br>Free

t<br>Weakly bound t (Albumin bound)<br>SHBG bound

T<br><br>Free t is freely available. Weakly bound t may be

available (depends on who you believe). SHBG bound t is

basically out of the action...unable to be used.<br><br>Of

the testosterone that is bound, roughly one-half is

said to be " weakly bound " and one-half is SHBG

bound.<br><br>An increase in SHBG bound t would reduce your free

level (assuming the weakly bound component remained the

same). A decrease would work the other way.<br><br>There

is a brief mention of SHBG in Chapter 5 of the

Shippen book.<br><br>Hope that helps,<br>Brad

[Guest guest]

Glad to hear the good news!

Carol

dfisher4140 wrote:

> Just thought I'ld let you know I got my lab results and everything is

> good!! So can the liver be swollen and still have good labs? Why?

> My platelets were low and the hemoglobin and hematocrit were a little

> elevated. I have no idea what they are. Doc said it was good so

> I'll go with that. I didn't call Dr. Jeffer's office to set up the

> biopsy but as usual I didn't get a return call. Maybe Mon.

>

> Debbie/FL

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Debbie,

Good to hear about the labs, It's funny, in another situation Id say keep up

the good work, here it's-- hope it continues.. It's a funny disease.

Patty

[ ] Lab Results

Just thought I'ld let you know I got my lab results and everything is

good!! So can the liver be swollen and still have good labs? Why?

My platelets were low and the hemoglobin and hematocrit were a little

elevated. I have no idea what they are. Doc said it was good so

I'll go with that. I didn't call Dr. Jeffer's office to set up the

biopsy but as usual I didn't get a return call. Maybe Mon.

Debbie/FL

[Guest guest]

,

I'm always glad to hear stories like this where dr's listen to people.

Take care,

_________________________________________________________________

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