Guest guest Posted April 15, 1999 Report Share Posted April 15, 1999 Goldberg's use of drugs is very minimal-he uses safe drugs in very small doses. The Celexa is 1/4 tablet per day. He ALWAYS follows up to insure there is no negative reaction to any new drug. He always says call immediately if you detect any negative changes. Goldberg will explain in detail why he prescribes any drug-ask him if you are concerned about any of them. Goldberg does not charge for faxes as a note suggested. My son is well now due in large part to Dr. Goldberg. I would disregard the negative opinions from people who have NEVER had kids treated by him. Listen to the people who have know Goldberg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 1999 Report Share Posted April 15, 1999 i located Dr Goldberg online while sooking for ADHD doctor for my son's father. While I don't take my son to him, his dad is being treated with antidepressants for neuro disorders related to autism in a way (too long to explain). He started him on Effexor, next is Zoloft and last is Celexa. I read on another post Dr Goldberg is treating her child with Celexa. This is a new drug (approved 6/98 by FDA). these are by no means a cure, but have helped with mood swings, bad behavior and anger. Dr Goldberg had ordered a PET scan, at a cost of $875, on top of his $385 office visits, phone consults and faxes are billed at $145. The meds are also very costly. I am not willing at this time to take my 4 year old (nor can I afford it). He is doing very well on DMG and vitamins. I am looking into more vitamins. These drugs are very powerful, and have rendered impotence. I would be wary of giving such strong drugs to a little child. He also recommended the GF/CF diet, but trying to get this bull headed adult to get off his milk addiction is impossible. For more info on the GF/CF diet, there is a discussion list at onelist, and you can order the book Special Diets for special kids by for about $25, but I notice that it is at & Noble on-line for less than $20 (I think $18.99) more questions >From: " D. " <ryankd@...> > >Hi everyone! > >I hope you all don't mind, but I have a few more questions. (You all have been so unbelievably supportive, and we really appreciate it-thanks!). > >Does anyone know of any secretin studies or prozac studies going on? > >Just curious-does anyone know if Dr. Goldberg has been featured on any of the national television news magazine shows, such as Dateline NBC? > >How does Dr. Goldberg feel about the use of antidepressants or antipsychotics in these children? (I gather from his site that he's not much of an advocate of secretin use). > >Can I expect Dr. Goldberg to be as aggressive and successful with a MILDLY autistic child? > >Thank you, > > >Kim > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Did you know that we add over 1,000 new e-mail communities every day? >http://www.ONElist.com >Explore a new hobby, discover a new friend, laugh at a new joke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 1999 Report Share Posted April 16, 1999 The illustrious Doctor Goldberg is making a small fortune from the community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 1999 Report Share Posted April 16, 1999 In a message dated 4/15/99 8:23:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Virri345@... writes: << From: Virri345@... The illustrious Doctor Goldberg is making a small fortune from the community. >> Dear Virri345: Your statement is vague and without basis. Dr. Goldberg has been more than generous with his time and that of his staff. He volunteers to talk to parent groups and medical doctors worldwide, only asking to be reimbursed for his travel expenses. His passion behind his work and his compassion for children are priceless. I think most others would support this. Becky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 1999 Report Share Posted April 16, 1999 To answer Bukitt: I am sure you are a great parent and try your best. I am not Dr. Goldberg, so I wont speak for him. But my son has been treated by him for 3 years and I have the following to tell you: - Dr. G's approach is radically different from the approach of doctors who treat " autism " with anti-depressants and SSRI. - He thinks that what doctors call " autism " is more and more an illness not a state. SSRI and anti-depressant dont cure autism. They help aleviate some of the symptomes. - Dr. G has ample evidence that what is often called autism is actually an immune system dysfunction. He wants to address that dysfunction. That is why the treatment starts with a diet: to eliminate as much as possible the foods that set off allergies/immune system reaction. Dr. G uses SSRI in very small doses and only after the new diet has shown good effects. Check the doses of Paxil or Celexa he prescribes and compare to what other doctors routinely do...you will see he is very conservative. - Re. cost: Dr. G is not getting rich spending his life helping our kids. I know him enough to certify that. His exams are thorough and professional. His treatment is based on sound medicine. Not on food supplement gimmicks who very rarely solve the immune system dysfuntion we call autism. - Think of the money you will save in helping your kid now, as opposed to the money you will need to spend on him for the rest of your life if he does not make progress quickly. Good luck to you ! PYD Bukitt wrote: > > From: " Bukitt " <wingding@...> > > i located Dr Goldberg online while sooking for ADHD doctor for my son's > father. While I don't take my son to him, his dad is being treated with > antidepressants for neuro disorders related to autism in a way (too long to > explain). He started him on Effexor, next is Zoloft and last is Celexa. I > read on another post Dr Goldberg is treating her child with Celexa. This is > a new drug (approved 6/98 by FDA). these are by no means a cure, but have > helped with mood swings, bad behavior and anger. Dr Goldberg had ordered a > PET scan, at a cost of $875, on top of his $385 office visits, phone > consults and faxes are billed at $145. The meds are also very costly. I > am not willing at this time to take my 4 year old (nor can I afford it). He > is doing very well on DMG and vitamins. I am looking into more vitamins. > These drugs are very powerful, and have rendered impotence. I would be wary > of giving such strong drugs to a little child. He also recommended the > GF/CF diet, but trying to get this bull headed adult to get off his milk > addiction is impossible. For more info on the GF/CF diet, there is a > discussion list at onelist, and you can order the book Special Diets for > special kids by for about $25, but I notice that it is at > & Noble on-line for less than $20 (I think $18.99) > more questions > > >From: " D. " <ryankd@...> > > > >Hi everyone! > > > >I hope you all don't mind, but I have a few more questions. (You all have > been so unbelievably supportive, and we really appreciate it-thanks!). > > > >Does anyone know of any secretin studies or prozac studies going on? > > > >Just curious-does anyone know if Dr. Goldberg has been featured on any of > the national television news magazine shows, such as Dateline NBC? > > > >How does Dr. Goldberg feel about the use of antidepressants or > antipsychotics in these children? (I gather from his site that he's not > much of an advocate of secretin use). > > > >Can I expect Dr. Goldberg to be as aggressive and successful with a MILDLY > autistic child? > > > >Thank you, > > > > > >Kim > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Did you know that we add over 1,000 new e-mail communities every day? > >http://www.ONElist.com > >Explore a new hobby, discover a new friend, laugh at a new joke! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > You can now easily share photos and documents with your fellow list members > http://www.ONElist.com > Check out our homepage for details on how to use our new shared files feature! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 1999 Report Share Posted April 16, 1999 On what basis do you make this statement? I've NEVER gotten that impression. And I've NEVER met a Dr. who will actually take as much time as needed to talk with his patients the way Dr. G does. The last time I went to a Dr. for my OWN needs, the guy was in and out of the room so fast it made my head spin .... Sandy On 15 Apr 99 Virri345@... (Virri345@... <onelist>) wrote: > From: Virri345@... > > The illustrious Doctor Goldberg is making a small fortune from the > community. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- Did you know that knowledge is power? http://www.ONElist.com > Join a new ONElist e-mail community and strengthen your mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 1999 Report Share Posted April 16, 1999 Thank you for your reply. My son's father financially devastated me. I lost 3 businesses, my home and all but one of my vehicles. He also pawned personal possessions, jewlrey , videos, even my mirowave. Last was the Bronco, he took it to Tarzana and sold it for half what I paid for it. He was supposed to get his treatment.....but blew most of it on himself (junk food, movies, electronics etc) I am now on welfare, and earning about $200-400 a month in part time work. Getting daddy cured was suppossed to help him be able to support us. My welfare check is $287 and my rent in this tiny place is $595. My son's SSI check pays half the rent, and with his DMG and special diet, there is no money for a non Medi-Cal doctor. Even with him gone, (he has now wrecked his parents life again) I cannot achieve my prior level of business income. I lost my leases on the 2 stores, liquidated inventory to try to save my house ( which had a shop in it for my third business). My son has done very well on DMG, but he is still not aware of dangers of wandering down the street and removing his clothes. He cannot answer a neighbor boy's question " do you want to play " . He doesn't know that stripping all the leaves and branches off a baby tree can kill it. I guess in my letter I should have said " I can't " rather than " I won't. " I realize his father can not be cured, and his costly treatment has already broke me and his parents. They are ready to kick him out, and if he comes here, I'll have to call the police (he has a warrent for breaking my nose and other abuses, besides ripping me off, credit cards too....) Perhaps the castration effect is just what he needs !! He was supposidly on Paxil when he assaulted my son, then as I defended my son, I got punched. (My son was then only 2 then) and had been whipped several times by him, each time I'd call the cops and he'd lie to them. Then he'd say if I called again he'd tell them that *I* hit the kid and was trying to set him up. The next time, he did exactly that and they threatened to arrest both of us !!!! The problem was his brain disfunction. He doesn't like what he does. He hates himself, but still enjoys the thrill of manipulation. This sociopathic behavior is totally due to the disfunction in his brain. His mother was a chain smoker in pregancy, which researchers have discovered causes boys born to such mothers to be much more aggresive and violent. Central nervous system damage has been discovered. Sorry to ramble....... I think Dr Goldberg is doing a great job. Too bad he is just one of a few taking these approaches. I'm sure he would have been an asset at the biological conference set for May in Orlando, FL. Which will be addressing the immune responses etc. Tapes can be ordered for $9 each or $80 for the set of 10. I have the address if you are interested. ~ Re: more questions >From: Pierre-Yves Dugua <dugua@...> > >To answer Burkitt: > >I am sure you are a great parent and try your best. I am not Dr. >Goldberg, so I wont speak for him. But my son has been treated by him >for 3 years and I have the following to tell you: > >- Dr. G's approach is radically different from the approach of doctors >who treat " autism " with anti-depressants and SSRI. > >- He thinks that what doctors call " autism " is more and more an illness >not a state. SSRI and anti-depressant dont cure autism. They help >aleviate some of the symptomes. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 1999 Report Share Posted April 16, 1999 I would also like to know on what basis this statement is made. Dr. Goldberg has been generous with his time, reasonable with his fees, and we are exceedingly grateful for a knowledgable, experienced pediatrician who is willing to work at the leading edge of the resesarch. If you have reasonable concerns about Dr. Goldberg's medical practices, then specifically state them and on what basis you make the statements. The sentence below is a flame that I'm disappointed to see on any list of people who are trying to help children with autism. >From: Virri345@... > >The illustrious Doctor Goldberg is making a small fortune from the community. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Did you know that knowledge is power? >http://www.ONElist.com >Join a new ONElist e-mail community and strengthen your mind! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kathleen J. McClatchey (Whiteman) kjm@... Executive Communications office phone: (734) 763-8190 Office of the Chief Information Officer fax: (734) 764-3988 5085 Fleming Administration Building cell phone: (734) 358-5122 University of Michigan home phone: (734) 944-1828 Ann Arbor, MI 48109 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 1999 Report Share Posted April 16, 1999 In a message dated 99-04-15 23:49:42 EDT, you write: << The last time I went to a Dr. for my OWN needs, the guy was in and out of the room so fast it made my head spin .... >> SOMETIMES I SWEAR THEY HAVE ROLLER BLADES ON - ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM IN AND OUT OF THE ROOM! MARTHA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 1999 Report Share Posted April 17, 1999 i don't know if dr. goldberg is making a small fortune or not, but my wife and i know when our daughter was diagnosed with pdd and midly autistic six years ago, that he was one of the few doctors who said that he could help us. no, he hasn't solved all of my daughter problems, but she is a healthy little girl now and we see improvements everyday. i think the work the dr. is doing is great and more power to him mike Re: more questions >From: Virri345@... > >The illustrious Doctor Goldberg is making a small fortune from the community. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Did you know that knowledge is power? >http://www.ONElist.com >Join a new ONElist e-mail community and strengthen your mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 1999 Report Share Posted April 17, 1999 Well, I work for attorneys who practice health care law. Two have encompassed in their practice telemedicine. First I thought that meant specialists sending each other slides, videos, X-rays, etc., so each can review the other's ideas and see if both come up with the same diagnosis. However, the health law attorney I spoke with today wondered whether Doctor Goldberg or his practice group are actually licensed to practice medicine outside the State of California, where the particular health law attorney is. If he is giving medical advice to so many people outside California, is he licensed in all these states? and what professional associations does he belong to? What is the protocol in their view for this form of telemedicine?? What position papers have these associations published about this way of practicing medicine? He said this could be " problematic " especially with regard to the prescribing of medications only available by actual prescription. Is he networking or consulting with the children's local doctors? Are the local doctors signing any prescriptions? Is the FDA aware of all this? Is it ok with them? For example, in the case of local doctors, when an attorney is requested to handle a matter in Texas, although the attorney may be familiar with whatever the matter is, he usually either enters an appearance to practice law in that particular court/bar associaton of jurisdiction and yet also has local counsel. Together they sign any court documents, but the local counsel is always consulted on local law. The question I'm asking is how, if Doctor Goldberg is in California, can he " see " patients in other states via fax, e-mail and phone calls and charge them for it (usually outside insurance, etc.)? Also, FDA unfortunately for many eliminated the importation years ago, for instance, of the audiokinetron from France due to all the claims made. Is the FDA in charge of regulating the prescribing of either food supplements for such children or, if it happens, the prescribing of actual prescription medications for such children across state lines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 1999 Report Share Posted April 17, 1999 By way of follow-up, even Doctor Lovaas consults with local entities like Community Services for Autistic Adults and Children and Bancroft. But they do the charging for services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 1999 Report Share Posted April 17, 1999 I believe telemedicine is when the Dr. never actually comes face to face with the patient. This is NOT how Dr. G. handles his patients. Obviously it is necessary to communicate by phone or fax or whatever after the patient goes home - what are they going to do - fly back to ask a question? There are many centers of medical excellence all over the country, I'm sure that the Drs. at them are not licensed to practice in the home states (or countries!) of all of their patients. Re: supplements: the FDA does not regulate supplements (much to the chagrin of some) much less requires prescriptions for them. If a supplement is later determined by FDA standards to be a drug (such as Ener-B Nasal Gel) then it is removed from store shelves and becomes a prescription item. But what does all of this have to do with Neuro Immune Dysfunction Syndromes anyway? Lets get back to talking about how we have and done and what we are doing to help our children! Sandy On 16 Apr 99 Virri345@... (Virri345@... <onelist>) wrote: > From: Virri345@... > > Well, I work for attorneys who practice health care law. Two have > encompassed in their practice telemedicine. First I thought that > meant specialists sending each other slides, videos, X-rays, etc., > so each can review the other's ideas and see if both come up with > the same diagnosis. > > However, the health law attorney I spoke with today wondered whether > Doctor Goldberg or his practice group are actually licensed to > practice medicine outside the State of California, where the > particular health law attorney is. > If he is giving medical advice to so many people outside > California, is he > licensed in all these states? and what professional associations > does he belong to? What is the protocol in their view for this form > of telemedicine?? What position papers have these associations > published about this way of practicing medicine? He said this could > be " problematic " especially with regard to the prescribing of > medications only available by actual prescription. Is he networking > or consulting with the children's local doctors? Are the local > doctors signing any prescriptions? Is the FDA aware of all this? > Is it ok with them? > > For example, in the case of local doctors, when an attorney is > requested to handle a matter in Texas, although the attorney may be > familiar with whatever the matter is, he usually either enters an > appearance to practice law in that particular court/bar associaton > of jurisdiction and yet also has local counsel. Together they sign > any court documents, but the local counsel is always consulted on > local law. The question I'm asking is how, if Doctor Goldberg is in > California, can he " see " patients in other states via fax, e-mail > and phone calls and charge them for it (usually outside insurance, > etc.)? > > Also, FDA unfortunately for many eliminated the importation years > ago, for instance, of the audiokinetron from France due to all the > claims made. Is the FDA in charge of regulating the prescribing of > either food supplements for such children or, if it happens, the > prescribing of actual prescription medications for such children > across state lines? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- Have you visited the new ONElist home page lately? > http://www.ONElist.com ONElist: The Leading e-mail list and > community service on the Internet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 1999 Report Share Posted April 17, 1999 Who are you anyway and what do you want ? Why don't you sign your real name ? Do you even have a child with autism ? This list is to share tips and get questions answered about our kids. We already have it very very hard, and Goldberg has done nothing but make things better for all of us. He's the only one out there in the world of autism who knows what the heck he's talking about . We all support Goldberg so if your goal is to put him down, you're in the wrong place. Buzz off, buddy ! Sharon On 16 Apr 99 Virri345@... (Virri345@... <onelist>) wrote: > From: Virri345@... > > Well, I work for attorneys who practice health care law. Two have > encompassed in their practice telemedicine. First I thought that > meant specialists sending each other slides, videos, X-rays, etc., > so each can review the other's ideas and see if both come up with > the same diagnosis. > > However, the health law attorney I spoke with today wondered whether > Doctor Goldberg or his practice group are actually licensed to > practice medicine outside the State of California, where the > particular health law attorney is. > If he is giving medical advice to so many people outside > California, is he > licensed in all these states? and what professional associations > does he belong to? What is the protocol in their view for this form > of telemedicine?? What position papers have these associations > published about this way of practicing medicine? He said this could > be " problematic " especially with regard to the prescribing of > medications only available by actual prescription. Is he networking > or consulting with the children's local doctors? Are the local > doctors signing any prescriptions? Is the FDA aware of all this? > Is it ok with them? > > For example, in the case of local doctors, when an attorney is > requested to handle a matter in Texas, although the attorney may be > familiar with whatever the matter is, he usually either enters an > appearance to practice law in that particular court/bar associaton > of jurisdiction and yet also has local counsel. Together they sign > any court documents, but the local counsel is always consulted on > local law. The question I'm asking is how, if Doctor Goldberg is in > California, can he " see " patients in other states via fax, e-mail > and phone calls and charge them for it (usually outside insurance, > etc.)? > > Also, FDA unfortunately for many eliminated the importation years > ago, for instance, of the audiokinetron from France due to all the > claims made. Is the FDA in charge of regulating the prescribing of > either food supplements for such children or, if it happens, the > prescribing of actual prescription medications for such children > across state lines? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- Have you visited the new ONElist home page lately? > http://www.ONElist.com ONElist: The Leading e-mail list and > community service on the Internet! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of empty chat rooms and out of date bulletin boards? http://www.ONElist.com ONElist: Making the Internet Intimate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 1999 Report Share Posted April 18, 1999 He is certainly unique to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2002 Report Share Posted August 5, 2002 Hi, Where are you located in Oregon? I'm in Bend, which is in Central Oregon. If you live near by I can help you. If not you could go to www.westonaprice.org, check out the local chapters for Oregon and contact one of them. Hope this helps you. Sheila --- In @y..., " blackbeltmamma " <happygardeners@e...> wrote: > Ok, I have more questions! > > 1. While trying to use the baking recipes, I am struck by the low > liquid to flour ratio for the soaking of the freshly ground wheat. I > have something in the oven right now, very curious to see if I have > ruined it by adding extra buttermilk. What have other people done in > order to blend 3 cups of flour into 2 cups of buttermilk (or > yogurt)? I couldn't get it all mixed up. > > 2. Three days ago I started the pickled gingered carrots. At that > time we hadn't made whey yet, so I used the extra salt called for in > the recipe. Today was the 3rd day of countertop fermentation, and > before putting it into the fridge I tasted it. Not at all pickly, > just very salty. What have others experiences been, or is this just > how it is? I have a life-long hatred of pickled things, and was > looking forward to trying something home pickled to see if I like it > better. This week I will also try a batch with whey. > > 3. Aside from the handful of organ meat recipes listed in the > cookbook, where else might I find some good organ meat recipes? > > Thanks again! > > Leann > > PS I am in Oregon, any good sources for raw cows' milk around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2002 Report Share Posted August 5, 2002 In a message dated 8/4/02 10:40:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, happygardeners@... writes: > > 1. While trying to use the baking recipes, I am struck by the low > liquid to flour ratio for the soaking of the freshly ground wheat. I > have something in the oven right now, very curious to see if I have > ruined it by adding extra buttermilk. What have other people done in > order to blend 3 cups of flour into 2 cups of buttermilk (or > yogurt)? I couldn't get it all mixed up. I add lots of water to the pancake recipe, which it says to do. I haven't tried the waffles, but I imagine the large amount of fluffed egg whites should dilute the " batter " (dough?) chris ____ " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for those who do them wrong. " --Saint Isaac the Syrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2002 Report Share Posted August 5, 2002 Hi Leann, I had the same problem with my gingered carrots being to salty, but I used the whey and salt combo together. BTW Heidi, my whey came fom Now Foods. I suppose it might be better to try adding the vinegar like Heidi does and see what happens. I didn't get around to trying it this weekend, so maybe next. Robin <<Three days ago I started the pickled gingered carrots. At that time we hadn't made whey yet, so I used the extra salt called for in the recipe. Today was the 3rd day of countertop fermentation, and before putting it into the fridge I tasted it. Not at all pickly, just very salty. What have others experiences been, or is this just how it is? I have a life-long hatred of pickled things, and was looking forward to trying something home pickled to see if I like it better. This week I will also try a batch with whey.>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2002 Report Share Posted August 5, 2002 At 09:24 AM 8/5/2002 -0400, you wrote: >, > I had the same problem with my gingered carrots being to salty, but >I used the whey and salt combo together. BTW Heidi, my whey came fom >Now Foods. I suppose it might be better to try adding the vinegar like >Heidi does and see what happens. I didn't get around to trying it this >weekend, so maybe next. >Robin Robin: Even easier, just add some " juice " from the last batch. That way you get some acid, and the bacteria, all in one shot, and you can be sure it's the bacteria that like vegies. (Kefir has some additional strains of bacteria, possibly that may be good, but that's a separate issue. Kimchi " juice " works great). Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2002 Report Share Posted August 6, 2002 I haven't been baking, so I can't help you a #1 > 2. Three days ago I started the pickled gingered carrots. At that > time we hadn't made whey yet, so I used the extra salt called for in > the recipe. Today was the 3rd day of countertop fermentation, and > before putting it into the fridge I tasted it. Not at all pickly, > just very salty. What have others experiences been, or is this just > how it is? I have a life-long hatred of pickled things, and was > looking forward to trying something home pickled to see if I like it > better. This week I will also try a batch with whey. I think using just salt gets too salty too, so I have used whey recently, which I like better. I think (but maybe I'm wrong) in the good old days if veggies were fermented with salt, they were rinsed before being consumed. > 3. Aside from the handful of organ meat recipes listed in the > cookbook, where else might I find some good organ meat recipes? My best liver recipe: Cut liver into strips about 3/4 " wide Cut a couple strips of good bacon into 1 " pieces and fry them Add a goodly amount of sliced onion and saute until nearly done to you liking. Add the liver a few strips at a time, let them brown a bit, flip them over and add more liver, working quickly so the liver is still quite rare when you are finished. Season with salt & pepper and serve immediately (Have the rest of the meal ready when you start this). The heart recipe I found uses a stuffing of lots of parsley and butter. If you are interested I could look it up. Kris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2002 Report Share Posted August 6, 2002 Oh sounds yummy, please share! > > The heart recipe I found uses a stuffing of lots of parsley and butter. If > you are interested I could look it up. > > Kris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 , The answers to your questions----yes, yes, and yes. All saline implants have a silicone shell which could be leaking/breaking down, and the metals contained in the silicone can also be causing her problems. And the bacteria, mold, and fungi that can grow in the implants can most definately enter into the systemic circulation and cause many problems. It is very well known and documented that the shell of the implant is very easily permeated, meaning that things from the body/blood can enter into the implant, and the saline and whatever may be growing in the saline can enter into the systemic circulation, causing a myriad of problems. Second thing is that people just don't "get migraines." They aren't something that you can catch. Something is triggering them. As for the autoimmune illnesses, I don't think many of us had a propensity for autoimmune illnesses. I know myself that there are no autoimmune illnesses in my family, and yet I'd been dx'd with lupus, fibromyalgia, Sjogrens, Raynauds, degenerative disk disease, and chronic pain and fatigue. Prior to my implants, I was very healthy, and never had health problems. But there is absolutely no hx in my family of autoimmune illnesses. While it is likely that some women can get implants and not experience a deterioration in health, the chances are high that at some point she will. Whether it be in the form of an increased number of colds or flu; ear infections, fatigue, or other problems, some women don't realize that these may very well be triggered by the implants. Unfortunately, since most docs won't relate implants to major illnesses, they sure as hell aren't going to link them to things like colds or the flu. But if you look at it in a logical way, implants are foreign bodies which contain silicone (which is not inert), and your body is naturally going to mount an immune response. Nothing should be going into your body that doesn't belong there and is not a part of your body naturally. Furthermore, NSS (saline) has a shelf life. It is good for approximately 18 months at a temp of 77 degrees F. So, imagine that saline in a much warmer environment, and that supports the growth of bacteria, molds, and fungi. These all like warm, dark, wet places and that is where they thrive. I also want to mention explantation. While some women do have to pay for it out of pocket, there are quite a few insr companies that do pay for explant if health problems are documented and it is possible that the implants could be directly or indirectly related to the health problems. But your friend will need to find a doctor that understands the implant issue and is willing to acknowledge that her problems could quite possibly be related to the implants. Also, when you phrase it to the insr companies in the form of cost, they can (and often) change their minds. I pointed out to my insr company that between the yrs of 1997 and 2000, they'd paid out more than $15,000. My explant surgery was costing $3500. I reiterated that if they didn't pay for the explant, they would continue to shell out money for specialists, expensive labwork, and other tests (CT's, MRI's, etc), and expensive drugs to treat my symptoms. So where is the cost effectiveness? Certainly not in their decision to deny the surgery. In the end, they did pay for my surgery----completely, 100% of it. Hope this answers some of your questions, and please feel free to ask whatever more you or your friend may have! e ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:07 AM Subject: More questions Thanks so much to everyone; I am printing out all of these responses plus some stories for Tish to read. More questions first to be sure I understand: What is it about the saline implants that causes these symptoms-- is it the silicone shell, the metals in the silicone and the potential bacteria that can grow in the saline? Am I missing any other component? Everyone has such bad thoughts about silicone implants that they think nothing is wrong with the saline. Also, I mentioned to Tish's husband the other day about how it seems there are women with saline implants that are having the same problems as Tish and the first thing he said was, "They aren't silicone implants" the second thing he said was, "I've met several women at work (he's a drug rep) who said they are having migranes etc suddenly so I think it is just something going around" and then he said after I mentioned the silicone shell, 'Well, don't tell Tish about getting them out because I'm not paying for that!" Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, huh? So I am just going to print these out and hand them to Tish and then back off because I don't want to get in between her and her husband. Also, does it seem that the women who have problems/reactions had a propensity for auto-immune diseases and the implants caused a flare? Perhaps if the women never had implants they could have gone longer, possibly for life without an auto-immune episode? I did read most of the stories right after I joined and I was just horrified to see Phyllis killed herself. Poor dear.....you all must feel such a loss without her. It is such a shame that people have such dispair that they take their own life, yet no one seems to think implants aren't healthy and it is all in the woman's head. My husband told me when he was a medical student he did summer research with some Rheumatologists and they rounded on a women with silicone implants who was having mini-strokes because of her implants. That is what made him think of Tish. Dh said he would order an ANA for her is she wanted it, and he didn't understand (and was kind of mad) that none of her other doctors would order it. Thanks again, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 Hi , You sound like you have a pretty good grasp on this subject already! To answer your questions: Yes, those of us who have become ill from our implants could be reacting to either the silicone shell, the breakdown products of that silicone shell (such as chemicals used in manufacturing, as well as heavy metals used in manufacturing) and possibly a pathogenic overabundance of fungus, bacteria or other other heeby geebies that could be growing in the saline solution after it no longer is sterile. (which it cannot continue to be while inside our bodies, due to either a defective valve system, or permeability). It is too bad that Tish's husband has taken the stance that he has about not getting them out. Obviously, her health should come first, but sometimes it is hard for husbands to believe that we are really ill from these things, when everyone else is saying we are not, and many guys just don't want to give up their "toys", as my husband put it. As to your reflection on the autoimmune condition, I do believe that implants are the so called "trigger" that brings it to a head, whereas we could have possibly lived our lives without any manifestation of an autoimmune disease. There is no autoimmunity in my immedate family. I am the first to have blood work suggestive of that, and I know that I was an extremely healthy woman before I got implants. I never got sick from colds or anything--I could have won an award for not missing a day of work in 10 years! So, in my mind, I am convinced that the implants have caused my autoimmune condition to manifest itself. As Dr. Crinnion put it in a letter that I recently posted on the group, the implants are the "straw the broke the camel's back," and our immune systems manifested dysfunction and are in desperate need of rebuilding, if that is possible. It takes a dedication to detoxifying the body. I hope that your husband will be able to order the tests that Tish might need to help diagnose her situation. Truthfully though, blood work doesn't always reveal the cause of our symptoms, and that is why so many people have believed that our illness is all in our head, or that there is no association of our illness to our implants. However, some of us have had blood work that was indicative of a disease process that later improved after the implants were removed, myself included. Those cases are proof enough for me that implants can cause trouble. You sound like you have a reasonable husband! All in all, it is a situation that lends itself to lots of speculation.....but when it comes to long term health, it is better to lean toward the cautious side than to risk permanent suffering from an irreversible condition such as autoimmune disease, stroke, or neurological disability. And that's not even mentioning the increased risk of cancer. Scary all around, in my opinion. I hope this is helpful to you... Patty ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 6:50 AM Subject: More questions Thanks so much to everyone; I am printing out all of these responses plus some stories for Tish to read. More questions first to be sure I understand: What is it about the saline implants that causes these symptoms-- is it the silicone shell, the metals in the silicone and the potential bacteria that can grow in the saline? Am I missing any other component? Everyone has such bad thoughts about silicone implants that they think nothing is wrong with the saline. Also, I mentioned to Tish's husband the other day about how it seems there are women with saline implants that are having the same problems as Tish and the first thing he said was, "They aren't silicone implants" the second thing he said was, "I've met several women at work (he's a drug rep) who said they are having migranes etc suddenly so I think it is just something going around" and then he said after I mentioned the silicone shell, 'Well, don't tell Tish about getting them out because I'm not paying for that!" Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, huh? So I am just going to print these out and hand them to Tish and then back off because I don't want to get in between her and her husband. Also, does it seem that the women who have problems/reactions had a propensity for auto-immune diseases and the implants caused a flare? Perhaps if the women never had implants they could have gone longer, possibly for life without an auto-immune episode? I did read most of the stories right after I joined and I was just horrified to see Phyllis killed herself. Poor dear.....you all must feel such a loss without her. It is such a shame that people have such dispair that they take their own life, yet no one seems to think implants aren't healthy and it is all in the woman's head. My husband told me when he was a medical student he did summer research with some Rheumatologists and they rounded on a women with silicone implants who was having mini-strokes because of her implants. That is what made him think of Tish. Dh said he would order an ANA for her is she wanted it, and he didn't understand (and was kind of mad) that none of her other doctors would order it. Thanks again, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2002 Report Share Posted September 18, 2002 Dear it is great that you want to help your friend. I think that it is good to give her this info because eventually she will need it, and need to come to terms with it all. Especially if she does not get over her symptoms she will want to do something in the future. As far as her husband, that really amazes me that he is reacting like that. It is sad too, I sometimes wonder how I got so lucky to have the man I am married to. Anyhow I know my husband wanted me to get the implants out and we were not even married then,he sure did not want me to be sick. In fact he told me that had I not wanted to get them out, he would have insisted. Yes it is allot of money, but what good does it do to have expensive fake breasts if you are sick all the time. Of course she has not been ill that long, so he will probably change his tune once he sees her suffering is not going to end until she does something about the implants. As far as what it is, who knows for sure, bacteria, infection, reaction to the shell, I think it can be one or all of these things, frankly no one knows enough to say for sure, but what is known for sure is that once the reaction starts it is difficult to halt it. Good luck to you and to your friend. I hope it all works out! hugs C ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:50 AM Subject: More questions Thanks so much to everyone; I am printing out all of these responses plus some stories for Tish to read. More questions first to be sure I understand: What is it about the saline implants that causes these symptoms-- is it the silicone shell, the metals in the silicone and the potential bacteria that can grow in the saline? Am I missing any other component? Everyone has such bad thoughts about silicone implants that they think nothing is wrong with the saline. Also, I mentioned to Tish's husband the other day about how it seems there are women with saline implants that are having the same problems as Tish and the first thing he said was, "They aren't silicone implants" the second thing he said was, "I've met several women at work (he's a drug rep) who said they are having migranes etc suddenly so I think it is just something going around" and then he said after I mentioned the silicone shell, 'Well, don't tell Tish about getting them out because I'm not paying for that!" Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, huh? So I am just going to print these out and hand them to Tish and then back off because I don't want to get in between her and her husband. Also, does it seem that the women who have problems/reactions had a propensity for auto-immune diseases and the implants caused a flare? Perhaps if the women never had implants they could have gone longer, possibly for life without an auto-immune episode? I did read most of the stories right after I joined and I was just horrified to see Phyllis killed herself. Poor dear.....you all must feel such a loss without her. It is such a shame that people have such dispair that they take their own life, yet no one seems to think implants aren't healthy and it is all in the woman's head. My husband told me when he was a medical student he did summer research with some Rheumatologists and they rounded on a women with silicone implants who was having mini-strokes because of her implants. That is what made him think of Tish. Dh said he would order an ANA for her is she wanted it, and he didn't understand (and was kind of mad) that none of her other doctors would order it. Thanks again, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 I do indeed count protein by the gram. I include in my spreadsheet, ALL the protein in veggies and fruits however small. I eat a lacto vegetarian diet mostly, and do not find it necessary to use soy, dried beans, although I do use green beans, green limas, green peas (small amounts). I have found there are gross errors in all diet books because they commonly ignore the protein in "non-protein" foods. I calculate the amino acids compared to req'ts listed in Modern Nutrition, and I am always more than 150% of essentials. The spreadsheet is made from the USDA database and I think the DWIDP is based on that but as I recall doesn't list the individual AA's. It's probably not necessary,IMO, because even my "meager" protein diet provides all the essentials with even 49 gms. I find if I eat 72 gms I gain weight even at 1800 kcals, so I try to keep it at 56gms. That maintains my 185# easily. I will allow that athletic types require more. Atkin's is designed as a weight loss diet for the obese, not necessarily a food intake plan, for CRer's, although some use it. regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ria Brownlow Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 10:28 AM Subject: [ ] More Questions Thanks for the answers to my previous questions. Questions for today: 1) Does anyone count protein grams? If so, what methods do you use to calculate needs? Also, what foods do you use as protein sources? 2) What are the blood markers mentioned by Francesca as showing the benefits of CR? My body temp is, and has been for a long time, consistently 96.4 in the early morning. But I would like to know what the targets are for bloodwork results. 3) Has anyone else read that the Atkins Diet causes bone loss? I think I've been CRing for 47 years, actually. We used to call it dieting, and it remains one of the more popular hobbies among American adolescent girls. Not having outgrown it, I am like the EOD mice (rats?) because my dieting has always been interspersed with bingeing. So, I am not particularly thin (although I'd love to be!), averaging about 124 lbs. at 5'4" in height with some lean mass acquired through resistance training. I got interested in the ON part of the equation in my late twenties (that was thirty years ago), and have had an intense interest in that since, fortunately for my EOD body. With a very strong family history for osteoporosis, I was diagnosed with osteopenia in 1998. Since then, I have overcome it by following the recommendations of Dr. Lee, and even more focus on weight bearing exercise. My goals at this point (besides health extension) would be to finally (SOMEtime before I leave this body!!) overcome bingeing totally, and have a consistent body weight of about 110 lbs. Part of my goal would be to do this peacefully, leaving struggle behind. So, I've been a lurker for months, but hello. I do enjoy the CRSupport List, so thanks to you all. Blessed Be, Ria Ria Brownlow Email: riabrownlow@... Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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