Re: Re: QUESTION ON RAGES

[Guest guest]

Hi . I, of course, don't know the cause of your child's rages. My dd

has bipolar/OCD/anxiety and has some very difficult flares. One thing that my

daughter's therapist has made clear to me is that even if her behavior is

caused by bipolar or whatever, she still has to have consequences for some

things.

We do this for certain things depending on how stable she is. I would,

though, really wonder how much is manipulative for your child, if she is able

to

stop her behavior. When my daughter is unstable she is definitely not in

control of her behavior. She feels totally out of control and she hates the

feeling. Your dd is very young and her situation probably is totally different,

but

I am just sharing how it is for my dd. Good luck. Kim

In a message dated 1/20/2008 8:08:44 P.M. Central Standard Time,

cward_ri@... writes:

The hardest part now is knowing if it is just a bratty child, or a real

problem. I hate to dismiss the behavior as " something she can't help " if she

can

and letting her just get away with it, but I don't want to instigate

something else if there is a real problem. I think doctors are great, but

sometimes

they seem over zealous to diagnose a condition and I don't have a doctor I

trust.

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

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[Guest guest]

, that is a good question. I found this description online:

" Parents say that raging bipolar children will get a " feral " look, like a

cornered wild animal. Afterward, they are terribly remorseful if they remember

the episode, and often do not remember it at all. "

This is true for my dd. She will feel really bad, and sometimes will have no

memory of it. I don't know how a psychiatrist determines the difference. My

daughter was diagnosed at 15, but she had lots of other symptoms and is pretty

classic. Good luck. Kim

In a message dated 1/20/2008 9:13:09 P.M. Central Standard Time,

cward_ri@... writes:

Also, how would a psychiatrist differentiate between a bipolar type rage and

one caused by ocd or one just caused by odd or defiance, or just wanting

their own way?

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

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[Guest guest]

Those are great ideas. I have given the tantrum back, mostly out of frustration

on my part! It really doesn't seem to help. I ignore it fine if we are home,

but it is when we are out that is the problem. Like for instance, today we were

at church and it started over some goldfish crackers. My son took them and just

that started the rage and it went on for 20 minutes. I removed her to a quiet

place and then told her we had to go sit in the freezing cold car until she

could get herself under control. I felt like she was trying, but the tears

wouldn't stop coming, if you know what I mean .. it was the sob, sniff syndrome!

After 20+ minutes, she was much better.

The hardest part now is knowing if it is just a bratty child, or a real

problem. I hate to dismiss the behavior as " something she can't help " if she

can and letting her just get away with it, but I don't want to instigate

something else if there is a real problem. I think doctors are great, but

sometimes they seem over zealous to diagnose a condition and I don't have a

doctor I trust.

I really appreciate your input.

Thanks!

<@...> wrote:

Hi , interesting that she can stop for a moment to talk/respond

and then go back to them. Like you, I wonder if it's manipulative,

intentional, etc.

An idea I know others have tried with tantrum/raging: parent throws

one at same time, yelling, stomping feet, whatever. I'm trying to

recall what one mom said to me years ago, she told her daughter she

wanted to show her how it should be done properly or that she could

throw a better one than her or something. Anyway, a few times of

that, it cut down on them. Of course, these aren't OCD caused ones.

Recently, another group I'm in, parent said her/dad do this same

thing, throw one with them, it helped. Might not work for all but

may be worth trying to see reaction. Of course they might take

this as making fun of them and get mad but don't let it come across

that way.

Is it something you can just ignore altogether, leave the room

consistently?

Glad your OCDer is doing well!

I recall when my oldest son was younger than your daughter, didn't

happen frequently but maybe...3, 4, 5 times, he went into some type

of tantrum to the point I wasn't sure if it was a tantrum or what,

wasn't sure he was even " aware " in the middle of it, a bit scary, I

moved furniture out of his way (he would be on back on floor throwing

fit, crying, scooting, kicking...) and I never knew what triggered

it. Would just wind down on the wailing/crying and finally stop.

Videotaping does sound like a good idea too! You could show it to

her first, see what response you get; and then have it to show to a

doctor if you reach that point.

>

> Okay, so my 12 yr old son with ocd is so calm and agreeable. He is

> really asymptomatic. He is a joy to be around and has a very

> pleasant personality.

>

> My 9 yr old daughter is brilliant and knows it and so is can get

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

I'm not sure exactly how much she can/cannot control. It's just that today, for

instance, she was raging because she lost her toothe and then dropped it on our

carpet and couldn't find it. My son got upset about something and they share a

room so they were in there together. I heard her stop for a second, talk to him

very calmly for about 30 seconds or so, and then complete her rage. I have seen

that just another time or two, but it made me really question what is going on.

Thanks for your input!

mnmomof1@... wrote:

Hi . I, of course, don't know the cause of your child's rages. My

dd

has bipolar/OCD/anxiety and has some very difficult flares. One thing that my

daughter's therapist has made clear to me is that even if her behavior is

caused by bipolar or whatever, she still has to have consequences for some

things.

We do this for certain things depending on how stable she is. I would,

though, really wonder how much is manipulative for your child, if she is able to

stop her behavior. When my daughter is unstable she is definitely not in

control of her behavior. She feels totally out of control and she hates the

feeling. Your dd is very young and her situation probably is totally different,

but

I am just sharing how it is for my dd. Good luck. Kim

In a message dated 1/20/2008 8:08:44 P.M. Central Standard Time,

cward_ri@... writes:

The hardest part now is knowing if it is just a bratty child, or a real

problem. I hate to dismiss the behavior as " something she can't help " if she can

and letting her just get away with it, but I don't want to instigate

something else if there is a real problem. I think doctors are great, but

sometimes

they seem over zealous to diagnose a condition and I don't have a doctor I

trust.

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

[Guest guest]

Also, how would a psychiatrist differentiate between a bipolar type rage and one

caused by ocd or one just caused by odd or defiance, or just wanting their own

way?

mnmomof1@... wrote: Hi . I, of course, don't know the cause of

your child's rages. My dd

has bipolar/OCD/anxiety and has some very difficult flares. One thing that my

daughter's therapist has made clear to me is that even if her behavior is

caused by bipolar or whatever, she still has to have consequences for some

things.

We do this for certain things depending on how stable she is. I would,

though, really wonder how much is manipulative for your child, if she is able to

stop her behavior. When my daughter is unstable she is definitely not in

control of her behavior. She feels totally out of control and she hates the

feeling. Your dd is very young and her situation probably is totally different,

but

I am just sharing how it is for my dd. Good luck. Kim

In a message dated 1/20/2008 8:08:44 P.M. Central Standard Time,

cward_ri@... writes:

The hardest part now is knowing if it is just a bratty child, or a real

problem. I hate to dismiss the behavior as " something she can't help " if she can

and letting her just get away with it, but I don't want to instigate

something else if there is a real problem. I think doctors are great, but

sometimes

they seem over zealous to diagnose a condition and I don't have a doctor I

trust.

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

[Guest guest]

Interesting, Judy. Now my bipolar daughter, diagnosed at 15, never had rages

as a young child. She was actually a very even kid. Her rages didn't start

until she was much older, around 12 maybe. She gets out of control when her

bipolar is uncontrolled or her anxiety is extremely high. When everything is

well controlled she doesn't do this. She is on multiple mood stabilizers though.

Kim

In a message dated 1/21/2008 7:35:00 A.M. Central Standard Time,

jchabot@... writes:

The thing is, she does not do this anymore! I do not know if she really has

Bipolar or if these rages were due to her OCD and she couldn't express it. I

don't know. Believe me, she will still tantrum, but nothing like that.She has

more OCD symptoms and panic at this time. I'll be honest with you, I have

taken her all over and the doctors cannot differentiate the rages with her.

They all say she has Bipolar, but yet, why has she settled down? I don't have

her on a mood stabilizer anymore!

I wish we all had more answers!!!!!I w

Hugs

Judy

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I am in a similar situation. I have a dd(11) diagnosed with OCD, Bipolar and

PDD-NOS. I have a son(6) diagnosed with OCD " bad thought " and mood disorder-nos.

My ds has what I would call tantrums not rages. He will whine and fuss, and

yell, but it is usually pretty short lived and it is usually when he can't do

something he wants to do.

My dd on the other hand , when she was age 2-9, used to have severe

uncontollable rages for as long as 6 hours. She would scream out vulgar language

and threaten to cut me up with an axe, etc, etc, .She would take her heels on

her shoes and bang her door. She made huge dents in it.She would roll all over

the house and kick the walls. She only did this stuff when she was raging.

Otherwise she was a good kid. These rages came out of the blue, and she could

not stop.She usually only stopped when she was exhausted and would fall asleep.

Any attempts by me made to stop her by holding her , etc, made her worse. She

also would actually sit in the corner of her room and growl like an animal. Her

eyes would be dilated. She scared me a few times. I thought she was possessed. I

had to hospitalize her twice due to this behavior.

The thing is, she does not do this anymore! I do not know if she really has

Bipolar or if these rages were due to her OCD and she couldn't express it. I

don't know. Believe me, she will still tantrum, but nothing like that.She has

more OCD symptoms and panic at this time. I'll be honest with you, I have taken

her all over and the doctors cannot differentiate the rages with her. They all

say she has Bipolar, but yet, why has she settled down? I don't have her on a

mood stabilizer anymore!

I wish we all had more answers!!!!!!!!

Hugs

Judy