Re: Natural Perfumes in Whole Foods

[Guest guest]

Does this signal the end or the beginning?

[Guest guest]

Adam Gottschalk wrote:

> Does this signal the end or the beginning?

>

Do I hear strains of " The end of the world as we know it " by R.E.M? For

me, it's another universe.

My perfume is high end and will never been in WF. I hear that Jack

Chaitman (sp?) has some " water perfumes " at a WF in LA. Price point is

high. Have no idea how they're doing, but I know the local WF tossed out

Guild member Ecco Bella because at the time they said the price point of

under $20 was too high! I lobbied and got them back in.

All the natural perfumes will seek their own level in the market. What

concerns me more is the obvious mislabeling. Synths, bergamot as base

note. Oy.

--

Sincerely, Anya

Anya's Garden http://AnyasGarden.com - perfumes, aromatics, classes,

consultation

Natural Perfumers Guild + blog with daily updates

http://NaturalPerfumersGuild.blogspot.com

1600+ member Natural Perfumery group -

http://health./group//

[Guest guest]

mmahboubian1 wrote:

> I've been reading about how Whole Foods has introduced natural perfumes

> in some of its stores. Although I haven't been to the Santa

> store where they were initially introduced, I did find a natural

> perfume line by Aubrey Organics in the Pasadena store. Unfortunately,

> I'm anosmic due to a cold, so I couldn't appreciate the scents

> completely, but they did list all of the essences that were used. They

> also outlined the notes that were top, middle and base. Some of the

> classifications were confusing to me, i.e. bergamot as a base note

> (!).

Hi Folks......

I did a little poking around at Aubrey.....

Light Citrus Floral

eau de parfum 2oz

SKU 309

For their alky they use a denatured alcohol, under formula 38b, and they

state it's with lavender...USDA cert organic

Aparrently there's a number of essentials used to denature 190 proof

(and other strengths) ethanol.....Poked around some more...peppermint

and spearmint, rosemary and lav...lav...

Anybody ever run across a source for any of these....?

Sounds like something right down a NPr's alley...

Being denatured, a way to get around onerous alky regs....

Just for kicks, I'm gonna call up my local Walgeen's pharm manager and

see if anything developes there....I figure if I hit him with a coupla

buzz words....like 38b, etc maybe get a line? Since the stroke, with

alla the meds, I'm a fairly good customer...<G>...

Yeah...I know....probably hafta buy a 55gal drum at a time......

If anything comes out of it, I'll let the list know....

--

W. Bourbonais

L'Hermite Aromatique

A.J.P. (GIA)

[Guest guest]

> Aparrently there's a number of essentials used to denature 190 proof

> (and other strengths) ethanol.....Poked around some more...peppermint

> and spearmint, rosemary and lav...lav...

>

> Anybody ever run across a source for any of these....?

I distinctly remember reading here once that there are certain EOs

that can be used legally to denature alcohol. Lavender is one.

[Guest guest]

Adam Gottschalk wrote:

>

>

>

>> Aparrently there's a number of essentials used to denature 190 proof

>> (and other strengths) ethanol.....Poked around some more...peppermint

>> and spearmint, rosemary and lav...lav...

>>

>> Anybody ever run across a source for any of these....?

>>

>

> I distinctly remember reading here once that there are certain EOs

> that can be used legally to denature alcohol. Lavender is one.

>

Adam, I have no idea how this disappeared from the Files section, but I just

posted it up there again - look under Alcohol denaturants listed

Somebody should gather all the alcohol-related stuff into one folder.

Off to bed, long day, gonna dream of ambergris in Paris - can you pronounce that

correctly? ;-)

--

Sincerely, Anya

Anya's Garden http://AnyasGarden.com - perfumes, aromatics, classes,

consultation

Natural Perfumers Guild + blog with daily updates

http://NaturalPerfumersGuild.blogspot.com

1600+ member Natural Perfumery group -

http://health./group//

[Guest guest]

Adam Gottschalk wrote:

> Does this signal the end or the beginning?

Hi Adam, Folks.....

I take it as free press......

It was only a matter of time before the big boys would jump in...

However, using the framework of mass market, those folks are locked in

to a preset menu, so to speak....

Yeah, it's NP (or appears to be)......

But think of the flexibility that's possible, once you understand the

natural essences, of customizing what you do......

Somebody like Aubrey simply cannot do *that* unless they stick a

knowlegable NP person somewhere near the end of the chain....

The term artisan perfumer also comes to mind....

--

W. Bourbonais

L'Hermite Aromatique

A.J.P. (GIA)

[Guest guest]

>

> I've been reading about how Whole Foods has introduced natural perfumes

> in some of its stores. Although I haven't been to the Santa

> store where they were initially introduced, I did find a natural

> perfume line by Aubrey Organics in the Pasadena store.

> Maggie

>

There are several different lines of 100% natural, alcohol based perfumes at the

large

Rainbow Grocery in San Francisco in the price range of $20-$40. Skye Botanicals

is one of

the brands that I remember but unfortunately I don't recall the other names. I

haven't noticed

any 100% natural perfumes at Whole Food stores yet, either.

[Guest guest]

Yes, WFM has now begun carrying natural perfumes.

Mine are approved for sale in the Midwest region and are at several

stores. Movement is slow-ish but the customers that do pick them up

really enjoy them.

And yes - anything over $12 is jaw dropping to these stores. My reps

were horrified when we initially debuted the line at $15 SRP per

perfume. When we introduced the spring line and discovered how much

extra promo we were going to have to invest in for samples, media,

demos, ads etc just to get people trying them we had to bump the price

up because of that and materials cost increases. They are now at $25

which is still significantly under boutique perfumes like Kai ($45 for

1/8 oz, and synthetic!) but it is above the $11 items they love to

sell. Many of the store buyers just straight up won't even consider

our product because of the price. Oh well, I refuse to produce crap.

I'd rather go out of business than make a product I don't truly

believe in.

People's concept of what is worth their money is often beyond me. The

Nature's Gate perfumes which were debuted as " the first organic

perfumes " ( HA HA HA ) are made with 80% organic alcohol and then the

rest is synthetic scent. They are priced at $38 and people still

bought them at WFM! So there isn't alot of logic to it. I think

Nature's Gates ads really made their stuff sell, and those were full

of lies.

I've found education can be key in making the difference. And I do

have to do a lot of sampling to people to get a purchase. I've done

nicely at retail shows where I can be there to talk about the product,

and lots of times I have to just settle for someone trying the product

and just thinking about it for a while. After all, it is a personal

sort of decision picking a personal scent and not everyone is as

multiple-scent-personality as I am.

Pacifica also taints the idea of what a natural perfume should be.

People see Neroli and other " natural " scent names on their labels and

they think it is natural. No one could sell a Neroli product for the

price they are though, which should be the first clue that it is fakey

fakey.

What will make the difference for WFM and other stores? When

customers just stop purchasing the products that are full of junk.

The only reason that most bodycare is now free of Parabens is because

the public had an outcry about it and just stopped purchasing those

items. WFM will go where the money is. Simple as that. If they can

sell middle of the road products and make a ton of money doing it,

they will. If their customers stop buying junk they will start

carrying what people WILL buy. Consumers have more power than they

realize. If it doesn't sell they won't carry it.

Happy Thursday!

*julie longyear

[Guest guest]

>

> Pacifica also taints the idea of what a natural perfume should be.

> People see Neroli and other " natural " scent names on their labels and

> they think it is natural. No one could sell a Neroli product for the

> price they are though, which should be the first clue that it is fakey

> fakey.

>

> *julie longyear

>

Awhile back, at WF's, I bought Pacifica solid perfumes and a spray perfume

thinking they

were all natural. I didn't really know the difference as I never smelled

natural fragrances

before. As an uneducated consumer, I put trust in WF, I thought they sold

natural products.

But now I know better.

[Guest guest]

Hi ....just wondering if you have a website? 

Be well, Markel

[Guest guest]

<Yes, WFM has now begun carrying natural perfumes.

Mine are approved for sale in the Midwest region and are at several

stores. Movement is slow-ish but the customers that do pick them up

really enjoy them.>

 

I work for Whole Foods in Chicago.  Do you know which stores will be carrying

your perfumes?

And yes - anything over $12 is jaw dropping to these stores. My reps

were horrified when we initially debuted the line at $15 SRP per

perfume. >

 

Those prices are really inexpensive for natural perfumes.  And with what Whole

Foods charges for most of our items, that suprises me that they had such a hissy

about it.

People's concept of what is worth their money is often beyond me. The

Nature's Gate perfumes which were debuted as " the first organic

perfumes " ( HA HA HA ) are made with 80% organic alcohol and then the

rest is synthetic scent. They are priced at $38 and people still

bought them at WFM! So there isn't alot of logic to it. I think

Nature's Gates ads really made their stuff sell, and those were full

of lies.

 

OH, dont get me started on Natures Gate!  Not only are their perfumes synthetic,

they smell terrible!

..

What will make the difference for WFM and other stores? When

customers just stop purchasing the products that are full of junk.

The only reason that most bodycare is now free of Parabens is because

the public had an outcry about it and just stopped purchasing those

items. WFM will go where the money is. Simple as that. If they can

sell middle of the road products and make a ton of money doing it,

they will. If their customers stop buying junk they will start

carrying what people WILL buy. Consumers have more power than they

realize. If it doesn't sell they won't carry it.

Happy Thursday!

*julie longyear

 

Well, for a natural foods store, WF  seems to draw the line when it comes to

natural scent.  The selling point and company policy and mission statement is to

sell foods free of artificial flavors, colors, preservatives, and additves, and

to sell and promote organic and local foods, but they havent' quite gone that

far with scent.  Actually, neither have " natural " body care companies.  I know

there is no such thing as a 100% natural body care product, due to preservative

concerns, but it floors me how much synthetic scent they use.  And apparently

the customers don't seem to mind, or they don't know.  And that is probably the

key here.   There have actually been discussions on this before, and I've

basically said the same thing before. And in response to some of the other posts

on this topic, I can certainly see both points and concerns with WF carrying

natural perfumes.  I know some see NP as being a very high-end botiquey kind of

thing, and

something very much bespoke, and they are concerned with a mass-market approach

to NP.  They feel that that goes against the basic idea of NP in the first

place.  I can certainly understand that, especially in the light of the the

prices of natural essences.  And do they also feel that it would create a lack

of respect for the art and the product too?  Afterall, is it a grocery store's

responsibility to sell fine perfumes?  However, I feel that Whole Foods, whose

whole idea in the first place is to promote and make available natural and

organic products to those who wish to purchase them, should walk their talk when

it comes to perfumes and fragrances.  It makes no sense to me whatsoever to have

" natural " body products and perfumes made with synthetic scents at a store that

is supposed to sell, well, natural products.

[Guest guest]

>

> <Yes, WFM has now begun carrying natural perfumes.

> Mine are approved for sale in the Midwest region and are at several

> stores. Movement is slow-ish but the customers that do pick them up

> really enjoy them.>

>  

> I work for Whole Foods in Chicago.  Do you know which stores will

be carrying your perfumes?

>

> And yes - anything over $12 is jaw dropping to these stores. My reps

> were horrified when we initially debuted the line at $15 SRP per

> perfume. >

>  

> Those prices are really inexpensive for natural perfumes.  And with

what Whole Foods charges for most of our items, that suprises me that

they had such a hissy about it.

>

> People's concept of what is worth their money is often beyond me.

The

> Nature's Gate perfumes which were debuted as " the first organic

> perfumes " ( HA HA HA ) are made with 80% organic alcohol and then

the

> rest is synthetic scent. They are priced at $38 and people still

> bought them at WFM! So there isn't alot of logic to it. I think

> Nature's Gates ads really made their stuff sell, and those were full

> of lies.

>  

> OH, dont get me started on Natures Gate!  Not only are their

perfumes synthetic, they smell terrible!

>  

> Well, for a natural foods store, WF  seems to draw the line when it

comes to natural scent.  The selling point and company policy and

mission statement is to sell foods free of artificial flavors,

colors, preservatives, and additves, and to sell and promote organic

and local foods, but they havent' quite gone that far with scent. 

Actually, neither have " natural " body care companies.  I know there

is no such thing as a 100% natural body care product, due to

preservative concerns, but it floors me how much synthetic scent they

use.  And apparently the customers don't seem to mind, or they don't

know.  And that is probably the key here.   There have actually been

discussions on this before, and I've basically said the same thing

before. And in response to some of the other posts on this topic, I

can certainly see both points and concerns with WF carrying natural

perfumes.  I know some see NP as being a very high-end botiquey kind

of thing, and

> something very much bespoke, and they are concerned with a mass-

market approach to NP.  They feel that that goes against the basic

idea of NP in the first place.  I can certainly understand that,

especially in the light of the the prices of natural essences.  And

do they also feel that it would create a lack of respect for the art

and the product too?  Afterall, is it a grocery store's

responsibility to sell fine perfumes?  However, I feel that Whole

Foods, whose whole idea in the first place is to promote and make

available natural and organic products to those who wish to purchase

them, should walk their talk when it comes to perfumes and

fragrances.  It makes no sense to me whatsoever to have " natural "

body products and perfumes made with synthetic scents at a store that

is supposed to sell, well, natural products.

>

>

Hey and all,

My perfume line is currently at Whole Foods Hinsdale in the Chicago

area, here in St. Louis, MO at the Galleria store and in Omaha,

Nebraska at the store there.

Glad to hear that Nature's Gate is continuing to horrify

dedicated natural consumers. There is hope! LOL

I completely agree about the synthetic scents. If they really want

to have a values system it is completely inconsistent to support

synthetic scented products. BUT if they didn't they'd have to kick

Pacifica completely off their shelves and they'd lose a ton of money

of they did that. Pacifica sells like crazy for them. They have had

their own dedicated endcap in my local store for the last 5 years.

I think the double-speak/act when it comes to synthetic scents will

not give most consumers a great experience with a natural product.

They may try one for the first time and have a bad reaction and think

naturals are not for them. Well, they just picked up the

wrong " natural " . But a first time customer may not know any better.

This is an industry built on trust (IMHO - some people would tell you

its still about money), and if people can't trust the stores to be

stocking the right, clean products for them then they won't have any

reason to stay with naturals.

Even core companies that were there when the natural industry really

started have really not kept up with the times. They are continuing

to do what sells rather than what is best and most recent for

customers. A lot has happened in 30 years... we can do better now!

Burts Bees uses fragrance oils. Big suprise since they are now owned

by Clorox.

Using synthetic scent is considerably more about cost cutting than

anything else. Why shell out for an essential oil when you can

stabilize your supply chain and pay less at the same time? I know

why, but they don't seem to.

There is a serious problem too with people's noses being so dulled by

all their chemical exposure that they almost need those fake,

enhanced chemicals. Between Febreeze, Glade, laundry detergent and

heaven only knows what else they can't hardly smell anymore. It can

take a little while to " detox " and reset the nose.

Both my sales manager and I have completely ruined our husbands for

synthetic scented products. Mine was feeling lazy and got a bottle

of Gillette shave cream the other day from the store and just about

passed out when he used it. " I can smell the chemicals! " was his

response. I was quite satisfied! So I can't get him to stop

leaving his dirty socks in the kitchen.... At least I have triumphed

in the smell division.

[Guest guest]

That would be nice if WF would start to educate consumers about natural

scents. Its amazing how many people don't know that their 'strawberry

scented' lotion is not a natural scent. As long as it has a natural

sounding name that seems to be all that is important. Maybe there is

something we can do to pursuade WF.

Sagescript Institute, llc

Colorado Aromatics

http://www.sagescript.com

[Guest guest]

Longyear wrote:

>

> Both my sales manager and I have completely ruined our husbands for

> synthetic scented products. Mine was feeling lazy and got a bottle

> of Gillette shave cream the other day from the store and just about

> passed out when he used it. " I can smell the chemicals! " was his

> response. I was quite satisfied! So I can't get him to stop

> leaving his dirty socks in the kitchen.... At least I have triumphed

> in the smell division.

>

>

>

>

Hi :

I meant to reply to this the other day and forgot. Several members have written

to me that they got emails from a company called Lala Jagdish Prasad in Kanput

India. I got them too - spam. I wonder if they lurk here to got the emails from

our websites.

I decided to place an order to check out their stuff. HORRIBLE. Pure synth. I

only opened one of the five bottles, and the diffused sickly sweet synth smell

radiated to the opposite side of the house where my mother said " what is that? "

and " I have to turn on my fan. " Of course they're trying to give me grief about

a refund.

They're doing business as naturalfragrance.net and probably some other names.

Avoid at all costs. They probably sell to Gillette ;-)

Sincerely, Anya

Anya's Garden http://AnyasGarden.com - perfumes, aromatics, classes,

consultation

Natural Perfumers Guild + blog with daily updates

http://NaturalPerfumersGuild.blogspot.com

1600+ member Natural Perfumery group -

http://health./group//

[Guest guest]

>

> I meant to reply to this the other day and forgot. Several members

have written to me that they got emails from a company called Lala

Jagdish Prasad in Kanput India.

>

> They're doing business as naturalfragrance.net and probably some

other names. Avoid at all costs.

Correeeeecccction:

http://www.naturalfragrances.net/

I was just looking at their website this weekend...

Glad I didn't place an order...

Kiler