Guest guest Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 > > So, to > my question, are there any base and or middle notes that aren't " too > sweet " or " too earthy " that will help a blend of citruses and mild > floral (no rose - it makes her " sick " ) not only fly, but stay > grounded? Does that make any sense? If not sorry. Thanks for any > help or suggestions you might have. Hope you all have a wonderful, > joyous holiday. > > Deb > Hi Deb, I'm just a dabbler myself (to borrow 's word), so my opinion is worth, well, nothing really, but I'm going to tell you anyway. ) Difficult customers like her can be very discouraging, with their unreasonable expectations and self-proclaimed sensitivities. You can try educating her a little more about natural essences, but since she's in the pharmacy business, she may be uneducable. Unless they are open-minded, those in any facet of the chemical industry have a strong belief in the power of chemicals. One approach you might consider taking with her is the chemical component approach: what component or group of components is common to those essences that " make her sick " ? If there's no pattern, it's all in her head, and she may never be pleased with naturals. She may also have no idea what " earthy " means: maybe she means foresty, or grassy, or woody, or who knows what. See if you can pin her down on what she means by " earthy " . If she objects to essences high in eugenols (just by way of example), you could try blending using essences that are not as high in eugenols. Just a thought. Maybe you don't want to go that route. Now, on to suggestions for base notes. I would try these essences: frankincense cassie sandalwood balsam of Peru tolu balsam ambrette seed spruce absolute and I can't remember the others because I'm at work too and don't have my materials here. I'm sure you'll get lots of great suggestions from this group, so I'm not worried about it. Happy holidays to you, too, andjoy to you and to everyone in the group. ~Becky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 Thanks Becky - I have all of those except for the Spruce absolute. I just ordered some Cassie so it will hopefully be here soon. I'll play a bit this weekend and see what comes out of it. Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 you could try a light base...or the spicier amber. or patch oil. I just did a base note only blend and I'll be dogged it sweet didn't come out......????? sandalwood would work, try one of the mosses, um....... or one of the balsams....if she wants some earthy then we gotta go lower....arghhhhh, I can't think. I just got an order from two different people adding up to about 20 bars....they want 'earthy'.....so I said 'how earthy?' and they said 'oh YOU know......EARTHY........'........I am so glad I'm not a hair dresser....... � go�woods. when in doubt go woods if you can......it will bridge florals and fruits....and if you have real vanilla eo, the clean, not the cloying 'roast me over a camp fire' clean....it can bridge that.....i use it a lot to take an edge off or� bridge.....and if they are determined to not have a real vanilla, add patch with it and you should come out ok......I'm not sure what you have. I'm just going on what I have at the moment.....and a little spice might pull it off, black pepper? um......clove? cinnamon? only smells sweet to me with sugar in a cinnamon roll... � or a blend of wood, patch and spice, hit the spice light and black pepper might pull that off. � i've seen some strange blends but they turned out totally different than what I thought they would so I ain't askeered of em no more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 So, to my question, are there any base and or middle notes that aren't " too sweet " or " too earthy " that will help a blend of citruses and mild floral (no rose - it makes her " sick " ) not only fly, but stay grounded? Does that make any sense? If not sorry. Thanks for any help or suggestions you might have. Hope you all have a wonderful, joyous holiday. Deb *********************************************************** Labdanum perhaps? Patty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 Thanks everyone for your help. I am out of vanilla abs. at the moment, but I just ordered some from Eden Botannicals, plus a bunch of other stuff. I had some vanilla abs, but I wasn't really happy with it, because it did seem to have that sort of burnt wood dry down that seems to get stuck in the back of your throat like a bit of wood smoke instead of the rich sweet vanilla bean scent. I am hoping that my new abs. will be different. I think that really, she wants an aroma chemical scent with naturals and that just 'ain't gonna' happen. But, I will try to come up with something and in the meantime I will play, play, play and have myself a grand old time. That scent that she said made her " sick " that is in whole foods....I sent a roll-on sample of it to my mom and today she told me that she loves it. Believe me when I say she is my hardest critic. But anyway, as i always say, every scent touches every person in a slightly different way. That's why there are so many different fragrances out there. Take care and thanks again. i will let you all know what I come up with. Deb P.S. I looove Labdanum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 Oh - I forgot, I do have Sandalwood, but such a small amount that I am hoarding it for my own creations and not wont to share it. i know, terribly selfish of me. Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 > > Oh - I forgot, I do have Sandalwood, but such a small amount that I am > hoarding it for my own creations and not wont to share it. i know, > terribly selfish of me. > > Deb > Not selfish of you at all. Sandalwood is best kept for those who know what the real stuff is and appreciate it. It's wasted on others. One thing that you might want to keep in mind if you're planning on offering this person different scents to sniff and see how she feels about them: Make sure that you dilute your essences to 10% before you let her smell them. Otherwise she'll not get the idea of what they're going to smell like in a blend. Your mention of the cassie is what put up that red flag for me. I can't remember if you said you were getting cassie absolute or some other form. But cassie absolute straight out of the bottle can be seriously daunting. It's most definitely very different from how it smells in a diluted blend. A lot of other oils fall into that same boat. No sense letting her smell stuff if it's just going to put her off. The noses of most clients aren't as understanding or forgiving as our noses are. : ) I have to say, it's heartening that both you and she are still trying. She's got something going for her if she is still willing to try, rather than just going back to the old Buck Lure in a Drum that is mainstream perfume. Best of luck to you! Andrine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Deborah S. wrote: > Good morning(afternoon or evening) everyone, I thought I would come > to you all for some suggestions. I have a customer who is really > very nice. She is a compound pharmacist and I make a number of > lotions, balms and soaps for her. I would (and have in the past in similar situations) tell her point blank that you CAN'T copy conventional scents with naturals. Instead invite her to smell some of your already blended scent creations and choose from amongst them what she actually likes. From there you can modify acent you have already blended to make it a tad more personal from there! I have been approached by a number of business people who give me guidelines like: Modern and clean, natural and like xyz.... They have NO idea about fragnances, let alone natural ones and really need to be educated first. Ambrosia http://www.perfumebynature.com.au Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 > > Good morning(afternoon or evening) everyone, I thought I would come > > to you all for some suggestions. I have a customer who is really > > very nice. She is a compound pharmacist and I make a number of > > lotions, balms and soaps for her. > > > I would (and have in the past in similar situations) tell her point > blank that you CAN'T copy conventional scents with naturals. and my 5 cents worth, which is nothing to do with getting the NP 'just right' for your client, but a whole lot about the value of your work, and the tweaking, sampling, thinking, planning etc... be sure you charge appropriately for your time, expertise and effort, as well as for the precious botanical ingredients. Margi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 Thanks to all of you for your suggestions and comments. I went in to see her today and lo and behold, I took her a very old formula of mine that is almost all citruses with some clary sage and she loved it. She kept the little sample and will use it for awhile and see how she likes it over the next week or so. I may have to tweak it a bit as I think it is rather short lived if I remember correctly. In the meantime, we decided we may just have her come over and smell some different oils to see what she likes and dislikes and go from there. Thanks again and Happy Holidays to you all. Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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