Re: OT: anyone here living a dairy-free or vegan foodie lifestyle?

[Guest guest]

Dear Anya,I have a friend who has written a book on this topic, Dr.

Brantley, " The Cure. " He is my neighbor here in Coral Gables, his

website is http://www.brantleycure.com/.  I am sure there are other books on

this topic, I have clients like you suffering from chronic pain and other

illnesses who overlooked their diet.  Once they started eating organic, vegan,

taking nutritional supplements everything fell into place for them.  I hope this

helps, they are several organic co-ops around town, I belong to

http://www.organicbuyingclubsofla.com/

All the best to you!

[Guest guest]

I was a strict vegan for more than 15 years. The ONLY reason I'm not

anymore is that I can't get enough calories on a vegan diet. People

always think it's hard; it's not. The vast majority of the food in

the world is vegan because it's eaten by poor people. Vegan cuisine

has been a specialty in China for 5000 years and only slightly less

long in southern India (south-Indian vegan food is one of God's great

gifts). Nearly anything is vegan if you choose it to be: order

oatmeal and dinner bread with no butter (I'm an omnivore now but

still greatly prefer the non-hydrogenated vegan butter substitutes to

real better) (It's not uncommon to see dinner bread served with a

little bowl of (vegan) olive oil), mashed potatoes with no butter,

fruit salad, daal/bean soup, rice and bean burritos, and on and on

(and on!). I used to make a mean vegan lasagna. Especially these

days--you can get vegan kielbasa that's actually good! The hardest

part will be dining out with friends but it's really not hard to say,

" Hold the butter please, " or whatever; it takes a little time but you

WILL get into a swing without thinking. There are 100s if not 1000s

of good vegan cookbooks out there; don't even think about trying it

without a few of those books. A few of my favorites:

Recipes from an Ecological Kitchen, Lorna J Sass,

The Book of Whole Meals, Annemarie Colbin (careful--it's macrobiotic

so the food does have the tendency to be insipid; adjust liberally

(like add more salt))

Classic Indian Vegetarian and Grain Cooking, Sahni

Any good vegetarian cookbook will do--just use non-dairy substitutes

when they call for dairy (the latter above is not strictly vegan). My

all-time favorite is Vegetarian Cooking for Everyone by Deborah

Madison (not vegan); the mushroom galettes are way out of control.

And really go to show that vegan food is every bit as scrumptious as

" regular " food, assuming it's made correctly.

Did you know the Vegan Society was founded in England in 1940?

People think of veganism as new age. In fact it's ancient, as

mentioned, and the truth is that the majority of people on the planet

are categorized as " peasants; " a peasant diet is vegan.

My first neurologist when I was dx'd with MS told me flat-out that I

had to be a vegan; I looked at him like, " Yeah? So? " I imagine for

most that recommendation would be a huge blow. I do think for any

illness which is potentially associated with allergens, a vegan diet

is essential. As mentioned I would be a vegan still but for

insufficient calories; it's hard to get enough on rice and beans, and

I need more than most people because my metabolism and immune system

are hyperactive. The philosopher in me has looked at diet 1000 ways

and realized a vegan diet is the best choice for everyone on the

planet; I long to be vegan again and may well switch back.

Oh, and DON'T worry about getting enough protein. That's a huge red

herring. If you get enough calories from a _well-balanced_ diet

(plenty of fruits and veggies, whole grains, etc) you WILL get enough

protein. If you ate only cabbage you'd get too much protein (cabbage

is 44% protein). People say, " Be sure to get enough protein. "

Balderdash! It's calories from a balanced diet you need to worry about.

[Guest guest]

I was a strict vegan for more than 15 years. The ONLY reason I'm not

anymore is that I can't get enough calories on a vegan diet. People

always think it's hard; it's not. The vast majority of the food in

the world is vegan because it's eaten by poor people. Vegan cuisine

has been a specialty in China for 5000 years and only slightly less

long in southern India (south-Indian vegan food is one of God's great

gifts). Nearly anything is vegan if you choose it to be: order

oatmeal and dinner bread with no butter (I'm an omnivore now but

still greatly prefer the non-hydrogenated vegan butter substitutes to

real better) (It's not uncommon to see dinner bread served with a

little bowl of (vegan) olive oil), mashed potatoes with no butter,

fruit salad, daal/bean soup, rice and bean burritos, and on and on

(and on!). I used to make a mean vegan lasagna. Especially these

days--you can get vegan kielbasa that's actually good! The hardest

part will be dining out with friends but it's really not hard to say,

" Hold the butter please, " or whatever; it takes a little time but you

WILL get into a swing without thinking. There are 100s if not 1000s

of good vegan cookbooks out there; don't even think about trying it

without a few of those books. A few of my favorites:

Recipes from an Ecological Kitchen, Lorna J Sass,

The Book of Whole Meals, Annemarie Colbin (careful--it's macrobiotic

so the food does have the tendency to be insipid; adjust liberally

(like add more salt))

Classic Indian Vegetarian and Grain Cooking, Sahni

Any good vegetarian cookbook will do--just use non-dairy substitutes

when they call for dairy (the latter above is not strictly vegan). My

all-time favorite is Vegetarian Cooking for Everyone by Deborah

Madison (not vegan); the mushroom galettes are way out of control.

And really go to show that vegan food is every bit as scrumptious as

" regular " food, assuming it's made correctly.

Did you know the Vegan Society was founded in England in 1940?

People think of veganism as new age. In fact it's ancient, as

mentioned, and the truth is that the majority of people on the planet

are categorized as " peasants; " a peasant diet is vegan.

My first neurologist when I was dx'd with MS told me flat-out that I

had to be a vegan; I looked at him like, " Yeah? So? " I imagine for

most that recommendation would be a huge blow. I do think for any

illness which is potentially associated with allergens, a vegan diet

is essential. As mentioned I would be a vegan still but for

insufficient calories; it's hard to get enough on rice and beans, and

I need more than most people because my metabolism and immune system

are hyperactive. The philosopher in me has looked at diet 1000 ways

and realized a vegan diet is the best choice for everyone on the

planet; I long to be vegan again and may well switch back.

Oh, and DON'T worry about getting enough protein. That's a huge red

herring. If you get enough calories from a _well-balanced_ diet

(plenty of fruits and veggies, whole grains, etc) you WILL get enough

protein. If you ate only cabbage you'd get too much protein (cabbage

is 44% protein). People say, " Be sure to get enough protein. "

Balderdash! It's calories from a balanced diet you need to worry about.

[Guest guest]

Anya yes i am a vegetarian and dairy/gluten free and have been for 3

years and honestly can say it changed my life. I choose to be a

vegetarian and for health reasons cannot eat any dairy or gluten so

have learnt to be a very creative cook and i love this way of eating.

Sometimes its a hassle going out to dinner but im finding chef's more

and more helpful as there are so many people these days with allergies

etc. At a restaurant the other day i asked what on the menu was

gluten/dairy free and they presented me with another menu highlighting

what was free from gluten/dairy/sugar etc.

I do wonder though if our wheat and dairy was free of chemicals would

we have so many people allergic to it? I think not.

Australia

[Guest guest]

>

> I'm thinking of cutting out dairy and animal products to see if it

helps

> keep my arthritis inflammation down. It seems my inflammation has

gotten

> worse in the past year, after an initial cooling down with herbal

> anti-inflammatories. It was so disappointing when they stopped

working,

This may sound screwy, but first be sure your teeth and gums have no

infections or abscesses--- even small ones... for some reason unknown

to me (I'm certainly no expert) there is a connection. I have a

friend who was literally crippled with arthritis (hands twisted and

feet in bad shape) until her dentist diagnosed a small abscess in one

of her teeth; that was remedied and within a month she was regaining

full use of her hands. I SAW this change and found it hard to

believe... but 20+ years later she is in good shape (though 20 years

older!) and has full mobility but a few fewer teeth.

I'm sure someone else can elaborate on this more... and I know there

are definitely foods you can eat (or eliminate) that will also help.

Good luck.

[Guest guest]

BlueStar* wrote:

> I do wonder though if our wheat and dairy was free of chemicals would

> we have so many people allergic to it? I think not.

>

>

> Australia

A huge proportion to the problems seem to come from bottle feeding. Baby

" formula " triggers a lot of allergies in babies that express themselves

more and more as the person grows up. I found a recent study that links

the shockingly high diabetes rates amongst Australian indigenous people

to baby formula and childhood cows milk intake. It triggers an auto

immune reaction that attacks the insulin producing Langerhans

cells.(It's worse for indigenous people as they have no genetic history

of cows milk being part of their diet....)

I stick to a pretty much sugar, gluten and dairy free diet (apart from

cheese).

Too much damp otherwise, which cased fatigue, violent hayfever and

dustmite allergies, thrush.....

In Chinese medicine both Gluten and Milk creae damp in the body....and

rheumatism is often a damp symptom (as is asthma)

I'm not vegetarian though, let alone vegan. Like Adam, my body simply

won't cope with low calories.

I was vegetarian for a while way back...and started dreaming about

bloody stakes and craving big macs. A Vegan diet makes me incredibly

cranky and fluttery....

So I buy as organic and free range as I can.

Ambrosia

http://www.perfumebynature.com.au

[Guest guest]

Adam Gottschalk wrote:

> Vegan cuisine

> has been a specialty in China for 5000 years

As an occasional specialty maybe...but you won't find many vegetarians

in China. A Vegan freind of mine lived and studied there for some

years...and people would laugh and shake their heads at her dietry

restrictions.

The Chinese will eat just about anything.

They do use food as medicine in a far more studied way than westeners

though...you can go to a traditional docotr there and be prescribed a

meal ...which you can then get cooked next door by the restaurant.

They classify all foodstuffs the same way they classify herbs for healing.

Ambrosia

http://www.perfumebynature.com.au

[Guest guest]

I lived in China for years. There are many vegetarians; think of all

the Buddhists. There is whole different cuisine and a whole different

slew of restaurants for Buddhists (many of whom are very rich).

Believe me, I know first hand about the terrible omnivorousness of

China; I visited many an outdoor market where limbs were being hacked

off from animals still living. I lived for a time in Hunan where the

specialty is dog stew (it's quite tasty). None of these facts take

away from the high esteem all Chinese people put on vegetarianism.

Every person who found out I was vegetarian in my normal life

literally thanked me; to the Chinese. who only emerged from extreme

poverty within the last generation, choosing vegetarianism is a lofty

sacrifice, one which only deeply spiritual people make. They are not

the majority, but even a small percentage of the population in China

means millions and millions of people.

[Guest guest]

I lived in China for years. There are many vegetarians; think of all

the Buddhists. There is whole different cuisine and a whole different

slew of restaurants for Buddhists (many of whom are very rich).

Believe me, I know first hand about the terrible omnivorousness of

China; I visited many an outdoor market where limbs were being hacked

off from animals still living. I lived for a time in Hunan where the

specialty is dog stew (it's quite tasty). None of these facts take

away from the high esteem all Chinese people put on vegetarianism.

Every person who found out I was vegetarian in my normal life

literally thanked me; to the Chinese. who only emerged from extreme

poverty within the last generation, choosing vegetarianism is a lofty

sacrifice, one which only deeply spiritual people make. They are not

the majority, but even a small percentage of the population in China

means millions and millions of people.

[Guest guest]

Adam Gottschalk wrote:

> I lived in China for years. There are many vegetarians; think of all

> the Buddhists. There is whole different cuisine and a whole different

> slew of restaurants for Buddhists (many of whom are very rich).

I stand corrected, grin!

Did you come accross any traditional perfumery in China?

Ambrosia

http://www.perfumebynature.com.au

[Guest guest]

Adam Gottschalk wrote:

> I lived in China for years. There are many vegetarians; think of all

> the Buddhists. There is whole different cuisine and a whole different

> slew of restaurants for Buddhists (many of whom are very rich).

I stand corrected, grin!

Did you come accross any traditional perfumery in China?

Ambrosia

http://www.perfumebynature.com.au

[Guest guest]

>

> I'm thinking of cutting out dairy and animal products to see if it

> helps keep my arthritis inflammation down. It seems my inflammation

> has gotten worse in the past year, after an initial cooling down

> with herbal anti-inflammatories. It was so disappointing when they

> stopped working, and since I'm the only caregiver for my mother,

> I'm trying to get in as best physical shape as possible, but the

> pain is very limiting. I've read lots over the years that this

> eating lifestyle works, but I don't know anybody personally - or in

> a group setting - that follows this. I'd love to hear your stories.

Hi Anya,

I'm sorry you're having so much trouble. As my grandmother's

caregiver, I know how frustrating (and guilt-creating) it is when you

can't give your loved one all the care they need.

It seems like my pain is a bit more manageable since I cut out gluten.

I've not eaten red meat since 1976 or 77, so I don't know what effect

it would have to stop eating that. The last several years have eaten

very little poultry or seafood. The grains were really slamming my

gut and skin. I was dairy-free for a while but didn't notice any

difference/benefits. So I'm back to my fermented dairy stuff -- sour

cream, cottage cheese, and yogurt - the real stuff, not that gelatin-

and modified food starch-containing stuff that's had the live cultures

pasteurized out of it and is basically pudding with a lot of sugar. I

consume it in moderation. I use rice milk and soy milk, and consume a

lot of legumes and brown rice. Not a lot of potatoes, either. And I

know I need more fresh veggies... Have you looked into the various

foods that can make inflammation worse? Let me know if you need info

on that.

Good luck and best wishes,

Andrine

[Guest guest]

> Did you come accross any traditional perfumery in China?

No but I wasn't looking for it. With temples outnumbering people,

incense is everywhere, though I'm sure none of it natural.

Traditional Chinese medicine shops are everywhere too though (those

old guys don't like to go a day without their ginseng!) and I would

guess some natural essences must be associated with that phenomenon,

though, as I say, I wasn't a natural perfumer yet when I was there.

[Guest guest]

>

> I'm thinking of cutting out dairy and animal products to see if it

helps

> keep my arthritis inflammation down. It seems my inflammation has

gotten

> worse in the past year, after an initial cooling down with herbal

> anti-inflammatories. It was so disappointing when they stopped

working,

> love to hear your stories.

Hi Anya

I have only just caught up with the group yesterday and saw this from

you.

I have arthiritis too which gets worse depending on the weather.

Humidity and damp makes it intolerable at times. Years ago when I was

in my early 20's living in London I got some kind of rheumitsim

arthiritis which deformed a couple of fingers and the joints in my arms

were so painful I couldn't pick up a pencil. They came at me with

steroid injections into the hands which sent me running for the hills.

It was horrible. In desperation I went to an Osteopath and followed a

natural diet with naturl medicine. It took 12 months but it went away.

The deformity of the fingers went too. Still left with arthiritis

through sporting injuries though and now in my late 40's its getting

worse. Especially right hip, knee and finger joints ache.

Key diet things I do when its bad (which is this time of year):

Remove all salt from the diet as it holds fluid and lots of good water

to flush toxins out. Use a seaweed type supplement instead like kelp to

flavour food plus its good for you.

No red meat at all

Eat lots of shell fish and if you don't like it - you can get hold of a

suppliement called Green Lipped Mussels (is made in NZ but they do

export)

No sugar and alcohol

Eat an organic diet as much as possible - a little bit of white meat is

ok, but simply cooked. Have to watch the protein and vit b's and iron

balance especailly if you go total vege.

No coffee - they say this but I drink a good quality organic coffee 2-3

times a day still.

Omega 3 oils - flaxseed

Use olive oil and lemon on salads and on steamed veges. (got some nice

dressing recipes with fresh herbs that help the system).Can also use on

fish and chicken for flavouring.

When the pain starts making me really grumpy I take a natural

antiinflammatory, its practioner range with tumeric. Such a relief to

get out of bed in the morning pain free. Once the pain settles I stop

taking them. Usually 4-5 days will settle things down for awhile.

Called Nalgesic. Its practioner range so can't be bought retail.

I use a natural massage balm made from natural beeswax, arnica oil,

capsicum amd eo of camphor, black pepper, cajuput, Ginger and mint.

Warming and eases the joints.Called Tui balms and waxes.

Swimming is good too as it frees up everything. I also have Bowen

Therapy which has helped hugely, feel like I have been hit by a truck

after the first 2 sessions but it eases everything beautifully for

awhile. Or a good Osteopath can help too.

Alot of the remedies will depend on what type of arthiritis - if its

osteo-arthiritis I don't know much about that. I probably should follow

the diet all the time, but I like to cook and eat so manage it when I

have to. Disciplined when I need to. In dry heat, hardly any problem at

all.

If you like contact me off-list, would be good to share what works/not

and if you can't get hold of products I can order them and send to you

to try. Our natural medicine doesn't have the same restrictions as the

US. Not yet anyway.

Sorry for the long post! Natural medicines and health are dear to my

heart, and have been doing it for a long time. This creaky body wants

to keep moving like a 20 year old but it just doesn't want to a lot of

the time! There is a time for a medical intervention but if it can be

avoided or done in conjunction with natural ways the better off we are.

Stay well and strong of heart

Karolyn