Re: Might Mycotoxins be From Me? Carl

[Guest guest]

Carl,

Okay, so mycotoxins are part of mold spore and

not like a gas being emitted from them or

surrounding them unprovoked and are only released

under certain conditions.

Do you think mold spore may release mycotoxin

just from dry conditions OR are you saying when

they are dried to point that they break apart??

I think you mean the latter. If I keep humidity

at home below 50% I assume I am not causing

spores that are here to break apart and release

mycotoxins, just not to grow I assume? I think I

read here that experiment with mycotoxins where

mold spore was kept for years and then was able

to be cultured afterwards, so I assume it was

kept in dry condition until then but did not

break apart. I think Jeanine posted that.

Okay, now I understand why removing mold is

better than killing mold, at least when you are

talking about large quanitities. So at home if I

keep place vaccumed and as clean as I can and

humidity down below 50% and not maintenance

problems mold spores may hang around but not

cause me trouble. Only question is if I have

separate myctoxin problem in house, now after

mold problem is gone clinging to carpeting,

clothes, etc. and causing me to constantly be in

contact with toxins.

As far as you know mold multiples in body by cell

division, like everything else, and does not send

off spores. Antifungals kill adult mold but then

new batch crops up. I THINK I've heard this and

that is why fungal treatment needs to be so long.

Wouldn't new crop indicate spores are being left

behind by fungus to give rise to new crop of

fungus, fungal eggs of some type, perhaps not

spores? If there are spores being released into

your body for future fungal babies, your own

white blood cells could cause them to emit

myctoxins I would think, creating myctoxins in

your own body, that aren't there from being

inhaled. If infection is never gotten rid of,

you would have your own little horrible myctoxin

factory going on inside you.

I was not worried that I would be emitting

mycotoxins to outside world but that I would be

emitting them inside myself, making myself sick

with mycotoxins that are coming from an infection

inside myself rather than from some external

source as long as I have infection. I still

wonder about that. Mold infections can be slow

kind of smoldering infections I have read, rather

than the obvious kind you get from bacterial

infections.

--- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

> Barb,

>

> The issues of mycotoxins aren't completely

> settled yet. I'll try to

> answer both this

[Guest guest]

Barb,

I can't answer most of your questions from a technical point of view,

but I can some from a logical point of view.

> Okay, so mycotoxins are part of mold spore and

> not like a gas being emitted from them or

> surrounding them unprovoked and are only released

> under certain conditions.

Correct. They can also be in fragments.

> Do you think mold spore may release mycotoxin

> just from dry conditions OR are you saying when

> they are dried to point that they break apart??

> I think you mean the latter. If I keep humidity

> at home below 50% I assume I am not causing

> spores that are here to break apart and release

> mycotoxins, just not to grow I assume? I think I

> read here that experiment with mycotoxins where

> mold spore was kept for years and then was able

> to be cultured afterwards, so I assume it was

> kept in dry condition until then but did not

> break apart. I think Jeanine posted that.

Generally, just being dry isn't enough to break apart most spores but

I would assume that " some " would anyway. Think about clumps of dirt

that hold their form until touched, when they easily crumble into

dust. Mechanical agitation could break the cells apart. Growing mold

can release mycotoxin because that is how they protect themselves

from being eaten by other molds.

> Okay, now I understand why removing mold is

> better than killing mold, at least when you are

> talking about large quanitities. So at home if I

> keep place vaccumed and as clean as I can and

> humidity down below 50% and not maintenance

> problems mold spores may hang around but not

> cause me trouble.

Yes. However, mold spores and fragments that are not growing can be

travel (cross contamination) from areas that are growing (Condition 3

in S520) and accumulate like dust, being a part of dust. So HEPA

vacuuming and other cleaning methods will keep levels of settled

spores/fragments (called Condition 2 in S520) at lower levels.

> Only question is if I have

> separate myctoxin problem in house, now after

> mold problem is gone clinging to carpeting,

> clothes, etc. and causing me to constantly be in

> contact with toxins.

What do you mean by a separate problem? From another mold growth

source?

> As far as you know mold multiples in body by cell

> division, like everything else, and does not send

> off spores. Antifungals kill adult mold but then

> new batch crops up. I THINK I've heard this and

> that is why fungal treatment needs to be so long.

Antifungals don't kill ALL the yeast in the body anymore than

antimicrobials kill ALL the mold outside the body. It is never ALL

killed because they don't come into contact with the drug or because

the dose isn't strong enough. So whatever isn't killed can reproduce

and replace the dead ones. Some that aren't killed can become

resistant, producing more " babies " that are also resistant.

> Wouldn't new crop indicate spores are being left

> behind by fungus to give rise to new crop of

> fungus, fungal eggs of some type, perhaps not

> spores? If there are spores being released into

> your body for future fungal babies, your own

> white blood cells could cause them to emit

> myctoxins I would think, creating myctoxins in

> your own body, that aren't there from being

> inhaled. If infection is never gotten rid of,

> you would have your own little horrible myctoxin

> factory going on inside you.

In a sense, I think this is mostly correct. I know from my very

difficult time with candidiasis that the antifungals killing the

yeast (non-sporulating) produced the mycotoxins just like the

actively reproducing yeast did. So it was extremely difficult to get

the infection under control. If allowed to continue I got sick but if

killed too quickly I also got sick. this delicate dance became a very

arduous 6 months to figure it out and finally establish enough

control to make progress. In the meantime, I was still sick but not

from growing yeast but from dying yeast.

> I was not worried that I would be emitting

> mycotoxins to outside world but that I would be

> emitting them inside myself, making myself sick

> with mycotoxins that are coming from an infection

> inside myself rather than from some external

> source as long as I have infection. I still

> wonder about that.

I was told during my time above, that exposure from inside the body

(endogenous) is treated by the immune system the same as exposure

from outside the body (exogenous) for any type of exposure, not just

mold. The immune system doesn't care. For example, I was told that

one result of metabolism of yeast byproducts is the production of

adehydes, similar to formaldehyde. Which helped me to understand why

some of the yeast symptoms were so similar to when I was exposed to

formaldehyde fumes. I had to avoid both. Move away from formaldehyde

fumes (or move the particle board out of the house) plus get the

yeast under control. Yeast is still the most difficult part of my

regimine, requiring constant diet and medication measures.

> Mold infections can be slow

> kind of smoldering infections I have read, rather

> than the obvious kind you get from bacterial

> infections.

Mold infections can vary widely just like bacterial and viral

infections. Remember, there are millions of different molds (that

sporulate) and yeasts (that divide or bud). Some mold/yeast

infections can kill in less than a day, others never kill but make

you so ill you wish they would to end the pain. Most are never

noticed.

Please don't take this information as overly discouraging. We are

talking extremes here. Even the sickest of us are not at this level

of ultimate extreme. There is a whole range within the population

from no effect to deadly. Just like for any other substance. We on

this group react to much lower levels than most people so our

experience is more like the extreme ones than the non-reactive ones.

Again, I am far from an expert in the public health or medical sense.

The above is a combination of personal experience and working with

others with similar situations. Whether you can find a true expert or

not, we each are forced to make out own decisions in our own way,

based on what we understand and trust. (or, as if too often the case,

guess).

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC