Guest guest Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 The batch that separated you can just dump into a crock pot or double boiler and hp it. The seized batch can be grated and added back to a new batch of soap at a 50/50 ratio of grated to new. Chris > I've never had a botched batch before, and now I've had two in two > days! The thing they have in common is alot of castor oil. I have > the Turkey Red oil. The first batch just traced super too fast, & > seized. So the second batch, I was alot more careful, and it didn't > get bad before I poured, but it sure did after it sat in the molds > for a bit. It's separated. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 The batch that separated you can just dump into a crock pot or double boiler and hp it. The seized batch can be grated and added back to a new batch of soap at a 50/50 ratio of grated to new. Chris > I've never had a botched batch before, and now I've had two in two > days! The thing they have in common is alot of castor oil. I have > the Turkey Red oil. The first batch just traced super too fast, & > seized. So the second batch, I was alot more careful, and it didn't > get bad before I poured, but it sure did after it sat in the molds > for a bit. It's separated. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 The batch that separated you can just dump into a crock pot or double boiler and hp it. The seized batch can be grated and added back to a new batch of soap at a 50/50 ratio of grated to new. Chris > I've never had a botched batch before, and now I've had two in two > days! The thing they have in common is alot of castor oil. I have > the Turkey Red oil. The first batch just traced super too fast, & > seized. So the second batch, I was alot more careful, and it didn't > get bad before I poured, but it sure did after it sat in the molds > for a bit. It's separated. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 The seized batch can be grated and added back to a new batch of soap at a 50/50 ratio of grated to new. Chris But what made it happen? is it the castor oil? These were one pound batches, and one recipe had 4 oz, and the other had 6 oz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Does TRO saponify? Sandy Re: Botched Batches The batch that separated you can just dump into a crock pot or double boiler and hp it. The seized batch can be grated and added back to a new batch of soap at a 50/50 ratio of grated to new. Chris > I've never had a botched batch before, and now I've had two in two > days! The thing they have in common is alot of castor oil. I have > the Turkey Red oil. The first batch just traced super too fast, & > seized. So the second batch, I was alot more careful, and it didn't > get bad before I poured, but it sure did after it sat in the molds > for a bit. It's separated. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 Isn't Turkey Red Oil the one that mixes oils and water? I would use that for bath oils, never heard of it in soap. > I've never had a botched batch before, and now I've had two in two > days! The thing they have in common is alot of castor oil. I have > the Turkey Red oil. The first batch just traced super too fast, & > seized. So the second batch, I was alot more careful, and it didn't > get bad before I poured, but it sure did after it sat in the molds > for a bit. It's separated. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 A seize can be blamed on a number of things. Post recipe and process that you used to make it and we can see. I made two batches of soap and all the oils were the same and the fo was the same but one seized and one didn't. Most of the time it is the fo but not always. This is something that can be really hard to pin down. It could have been the turkey red oil. You don't see that in soap very much. Chris > > > The seized batch can be grated and added back to a new batch of soap > at a > 50/50 ratio of grated to new. > Chris > > But what made it happen? is it the castor oil? These were one pound > batches, and one recipe had 4 oz, and the other had 6 oz. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 > Well, the recipes called for castor oil. I wonder if there's another kind of castor oil, and that's the kind they meant??? I've used it after trace as a super fatter with no problem. Also for bath oils. I'd had a whole gob of it given to me as a gift. So when I found soap recipes callng for castor oil, I thought I'd found a good way to use some of it up. Pretty strong odor, too. Really tough to find uses. Anyway, do you think the castor oil they're calling for is a different kind than turkey red? >>> > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 ok - now it's three bad batches - i just goofed up another one!!! the recipe's were as follows: #1= Shampoo bar: 4 oz coconut, 60z olive, 6oz castor, 2.3 lye, 6.5 water. #2= chamomile & jasmine soap: 1c cham/jasmine tea water, 2.2 lye, 1c milk 8 oz cocoa butter, 5 oz palm oil, 3 oz castor oil. #3= milk & cocoa bath bar: 3 oz water, 4 oz milk, 2 oz lye 6 oz cocoa butter, 6oz palm oil, 3 oz castor oil. 2 T cocoa powder to color 1/2 recipe. It's gotta be the turkey red! ! Just gotta! It's the first time I've used it other than as a superfat after trace, and to all of a sudden have so many failures.... It looks like normal soap for about 15 seconds, then gets like applesause. Maybe if I could just pour faster. Not wait for trace. But if it doesn't saponify, then maybe it'd burn the skin right off ya! > > Post recipe and process that > you used to make it and we can see. It could have been the turkey red oil. You don't > see that in soap very much. > Chris > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 It's definately the Turkey Red Castor oil. I checked the MMS lye calulator and it's not even listed as one of the oils used in soapmaking. Don't be discouraged though, soapmaking is a learning process, and we'll be the first to tell out - we had tons of botched batches along the way. Good luck and have fun. Unless you have a dollar basket, or it's lye heavy, it still might be usable. If it's lye heavy, then you have to toss it. Are you using a caculator to figure your lye? ok - now it's three bad batches - i just goofed up another one!!! the recipe's were as follows: #1= Shampoo bar: 4 oz coconut, 60z olive, 6oz castor, 2.3 lye, 6.5 water. #2= chamomile & jasmine soap: 1c cham/jasmine tea water, 2.2 lye, 1c milk 8 oz cocoa butter, 5 oz palm oil, 3 oz castor oil. #3= milk & cocoa bath bar: 3 oz water, 4 oz milk, 2 oz lye 6 oz cocoa butter, 6oz palm oil, 3 oz castor oil. 2 T cocoa powder to color 1/2 recipe. It's gotta be the turkey red! ! Just gotta! It's the first time I've used it other than as a superfat after trace, and to all of a sudden have so many failures.... It looks like normal soap for about 15 seconds, then gets like applesause. Maybe if I could just pour faster. Not wait for trace. But if it doesn't saponify, then maybe it'd burn the skin right off ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 It's definately the Turkey Red Castor oil. I checked the MMS lye calulator and it's not even listed as one of the oils used in soapmaking. Don't be discouraged though, soapmaking is a learning process, and we'll be the first to tell out - we had tons of botched batches along the way. Good luck and have fun. Unless you have a dollar basket, or it's lye heavy, it still might be usable. If it's lye heavy, then you have to toss it. Are you using a caculator to figure your lye? ok - now it's three bad batches - i just goofed up another one!!! the recipe's were as follows: #1= Shampoo bar: 4 oz coconut, 60z olive, 6oz castor, 2.3 lye, 6.5 water. #2= chamomile & jasmine soap: 1c cham/jasmine tea water, 2.2 lye, 1c milk 8 oz cocoa butter, 5 oz palm oil, 3 oz castor oil. #3= milk & cocoa bath bar: 3 oz water, 4 oz milk, 2 oz lye 6 oz cocoa butter, 6oz palm oil, 3 oz castor oil. 2 T cocoa powder to color 1/2 recipe. It's gotta be the turkey red! ! Just gotta! It's the first time I've used it other than as a superfat after trace, and to all of a sudden have so many failures.... It looks like normal soap for about 15 seconds, then gets like applesause. Maybe if I could just pour faster. Not wait for trace. But if it doesn't saponify, then maybe it'd burn the skin right off ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 It's definately the Turkey Red Castor oil. I checked the MMS lye calulator and it's not even listed as one of the oils used in soapmaking. Don't be discouraged though, soapmaking is a learning process, and we'll be the first to tell out - we had tons of botched batches along the way. Good luck and have fun. Unless you have a dollar basket, or it's lye heavy, it still might be usable. If it's lye heavy, then you have to toss it. Are you using a caculator to figure your lye? ok - now it's three bad batches - i just goofed up another one!!! the recipe's were as follows: #1= Shampoo bar: 4 oz coconut, 60z olive, 6oz castor, 2.3 lye, 6.5 water. #2= chamomile & jasmine soap: 1c cham/jasmine tea water, 2.2 lye, 1c milk 8 oz cocoa butter, 5 oz palm oil, 3 oz castor oil. #3= milk & cocoa bath bar: 3 oz water, 4 oz milk, 2 oz lye 6 oz cocoa butter, 6oz palm oil, 3 oz castor oil. 2 T cocoa powder to color 1/2 recipe. It's gotta be the turkey red! ! Just gotta! It's the first time I've used it other than as a superfat after trace, and to all of a sudden have so many failures.... It looks like normal soap for about 15 seconds, then gets like applesause. Maybe if I could just pour faster. Not wait for trace. But if it doesn't saponify, then maybe it'd burn the skin right off ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Your problem is the turkey red oil. Turkey red is castor oil with sulfuric acid added, true castor has no additives. Just my two cents worth. Vicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 > ok - now it's three bad batches - i just goofed up another one!!! > the recipe's were as follows: > #1= Shampoo bar: 4 oz coconut, 60z olive, 6oz castor, 2.3 lye, 6.5 > water. The first thing I found is that you are off on the water and lye. Lye should be 2.2 and 2.3 will put you in the 1% superfat area. Water if doing cp could be 5.5 Small batches of soap are harder to do for beginngers because errors really have a big effect. > #2= chamomile & jasmine soap: 1c cham/jasmine tea water, 2.2 lye, 1c > milk 8 oz cocoa butter, 5 oz palm oil, 3 oz castor oil. Here again you are off on the lye and water. All ingredients need to be weighted not measured by the cup. A cup is 16 ounces more or less and this recipe calls for 6 ounces. The lye is 2.08 at 2.2 you are using more lye than a 0% superfat. > #3= milk & cocoa bath bar: 3 oz water, 4 oz milk, 2 oz lye 6 oz > cocoa butter, 6oz palm oil, 3 oz castor oil. 2 T cocoa powder to > color 1/2 recipe. Here again your water or liquid is off with 6 ounces called for and if doing cp could be reduced to 5. The lye is again in the 2% superfat area which could give you trouble. There is another kind of castor which you should be able to get at a pharmicy. I would also recommend that you run all recipes through the lye calculator before doing them. Even if you get them from your best friend or out of a book. Errors happen and the botched batch will be your reward. I have never used Turkey Red in soap and have not run into any off hand that have. So this might also be your trouble. If your soap looks like applesauce it has gone past trace already. If you were doing hp you would just continue on with the cook and it would come to soap in the end. I had a batch that I used rose geranium eo in and it went this way too. I dumped it into the mold and it went to gel and came out fine the next day. Hope this helps and I think you just need to be more careful in your formulating. Chris > It's gotta be the turkey red! ! Just gotta! It's the first time I've > used it other than as a superfat after trace, and to all of a sudden > have so many failures.... It looks like normal soap for about 15 > seconds, then gets like applesause. Maybe if I could just pour > faster. Not wait for trace. But if it doesn't saponify, then maybe > it'd burn the skin right off ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Yes, you are right! Turkey Red Oil is a sulphonated castor oil which is different from castor oil by itself. In fact it is a surfactant and is used as an emulsifier meanwhile castor oil is an oil. YOU CANNOT REPLACE CASTOR OIL WITH TURKEY RED OIL!. Regards, Gadele > > > > Post recipe and process that > > you used to make it and we can see. It could have been the > turkey red oil. You don't > > see that in soap very much. > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Yes, you are right! Turkey Red Oil is a sulphonated castor oil which is different from castor oil by itself. In fact it is a surfactant and is used as an emulsifier meanwhile castor oil is an oil. YOU CANNOT REPLACE CASTOR OIL WITH TURKEY RED OIL!. Regards, Gadele > > > > Post recipe and process that > > you used to make it and we can see. It could have been the > turkey red oil. You don't > > see that in soap very much. > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Yes, you are right! Turkey Red Oil is a sulphonated castor oil which is different from castor oil by itself. In fact it is a surfactant and is used as an emulsifier meanwhile castor oil is an oil. YOU CANNOT REPLACE CASTOR OIL WITH TURKEY RED OIL!. Regards, Gadele > > > > Post recipe and process that > > you used to make it and we can see. It could have been the > turkey red oil. You don't > > see that in soap very much. > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 In a message dated 11/14/2004 1:33:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, kehveeneh93@... writes: Im going to have to get a notebook for all the good information. www.essenceprovence.com Good idea . People give me surprised looks when I tell them I learned soapmaking on the internet, especially from soapmaking email lists. I had nothing but botched batches, until one day it suddenly all came together. Soft batches, lye heavy batches, goatsmilk saponifying before I put it into the oils and ended up with HUGE chunks of lye when I went to cut it. Then there was the lb. of specialty oil, I " forgot " to add. So, I pulled it out of the mold, poured in the forgotten oil, and went at it with a stick blender. It harded up quickly and broke my stick blender. Then there was the frantic call to MMS for help with a batch after I'd lost a sick blender. I was told to just put in the oven until morning (no I didn't have to stay up and stir it all night) - but I really should have a stick blender. (I was using a cake mixer) In all my forey's into soapmaking. I've learned one thing. Keep your recipes simple. If you have 7 different kinds of oil in your soap batch, you have 7 different ways to mess it up. Some soapmakers make a small batch using just one oil to see what that oil does. Just a thought, I wasn't one of those who did it. Good luck and have a happy journey into soapmaking. in Cambridge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Hi Joyce, Turkey Red Oil is water dispersible which tells me it may not saponify. I've never heard of Turkey Red Oil being used in soaps. It's used for bath oils ;o) HTH, Sherry DISPLAYS, MOLDS & CUTTER, Dendritic Salt, Clays, Gr. Apricot Meal & Shell, Flax Seeds http://www.AuntHelens.com ez CA 94553 > > > ok - now it's three bad batches - i just goofed up another one!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Im going to have to get a notebook for all the good information. www.essenceprovence.com Schlicht wrote: > ok - now it's three bad batches - i just goofed up another one!!! > the recipe's were as follows: > #1= Shampoo bar: 4 oz coconut, 60z olive, 6oz castor, 2.3 lye, 6.5 > water. The first thing I found is that you are off on the water and lye. Lye should be 2.2 and 2.3 will put you in the 1% superfat area. Water if doing cp could be 5.5 Small batches of soap are harder to do for beginngers because errors really have a big effect. > #2= chamomile & jasmine soap: 1c cham/jasmine tea water, 2.2 lye, 1c > milk 8 oz cocoa butter, 5 oz palm oil, 3 oz castor oil. Here again you are off on the lye and water. All ingredients need to be weighted not measured by the cup. A cup is 16 ounces more or less and this recipe calls for 6 ounces. The lye is 2.08 at 2.2 you are using more lye than a 0% superfat. > #3= milk & cocoa bath bar: 3 oz water, 4 oz milk, 2 oz lye 6 oz > cocoa butter, 6oz palm oil, 3 oz castor oil. 2 T cocoa powder to > color 1/2 recipe. Here again your water or liquid is off with 6 ounces called for and if doing cp could be reduced to 5. The lye is again in the 2% superfat area which could give you trouble. There is another kind of castor which you should be able to get at a pharmicy. I would also recommend that you run all recipes through the lye calculator before doing them. Even if you get them from your best friend or out of a book. Errors happen and the botched batch will be your reward. I have never used Turkey Red in soap and have not run into any off hand that have. So this might also be your trouble. If your soap looks like applesauce it has gone past trace already. If you were doing hp you would just continue on with the cook and it would come to soap in the end. I had a batch that I used rose geranium eo in and it went this way too. I dumped it into the mold and it went to gel and came out fine the next day. Hope this helps and I think you just need to be more careful in your formulating. Chris > It's gotta be the turkey red! ! Just gotta! It's the first time I've > used it other than as a superfat after trace, and to all of a sudden > have so many failures.... It looks like normal soap for about 15 > seconds, then gets like applesause. Maybe if I could just pour > faster. Not wait for trace. But if it doesn't saponify, then maybe > it'd burn the skin right off ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Im going to have to get a notebook for all the good information. www.essenceprovence.com Schlicht wrote: > ok - now it's three bad batches - i just goofed up another one!!! > the recipe's were as follows: > #1= Shampoo bar: 4 oz coconut, 60z olive, 6oz castor, 2.3 lye, 6.5 > water. The first thing I found is that you are off on the water and lye. Lye should be 2.2 and 2.3 will put you in the 1% superfat area. Water if doing cp could be 5.5 Small batches of soap are harder to do for beginngers because errors really have a big effect. > #2= chamomile & jasmine soap: 1c cham/jasmine tea water, 2.2 lye, 1c > milk 8 oz cocoa butter, 5 oz palm oil, 3 oz castor oil. Here again you are off on the lye and water. All ingredients need to be weighted not measured by the cup. A cup is 16 ounces more or less and this recipe calls for 6 ounces. The lye is 2.08 at 2.2 you are using more lye than a 0% superfat. > #3= milk & cocoa bath bar: 3 oz water, 4 oz milk, 2 oz lye 6 oz > cocoa butter, 6oz palm oil, 3 oz castor oil. 2 T cocoa powder to > color 1/2 recipe. Here again your water or liquid is off with 6 ounces called for and if doing cp could be reduced to 5. The lye is again in the 2% superfat area which could give you trouble. There is another kind of castor which you should be able to get at a pharmicy. I would also recommend that you run all recipes through the lye calculator before doing them. Even if you get them from your best friend or out of a book. Errors happen and the botched batch will be your reward. I have never used Turkey Red in soap and have not run into any off hand that have. So this might also be your trouble. If your soap looks like applesauce it has gone past trace already. If you were doing hp you would just continue on with the cook and it would come to soap in the end. I had a batch that I used rose geranium eo in and it went this way too. I dumped it into the mold and it went to gel and came out fine the next day. Hope this helps and I think you just need to be more careful in your formulating. Chris > It's gotta be the turkey red! ! Just gotta! It's the first time I've > used it other than as a superfat after trace, and to all of a sudden > have so many failures.... It looks like normal soap for about 15 > seconds, then gets like applesause. Maybe if I could just pour > faster. Not wait for trace. But if it doesn't saponify, then maybe > it'd burn the skin right off ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Im going to have to get a notebook for all the good information. www.essenceprovence.com Schlicht wrote: > ok - now it's three bad batches - i just goofed up another one!!! > the recipe's were as follows: > #1= Shampoo bar: 4 oz coconut, 60z olive, 6oz castor, 2.3 lye, 6.5 > water. The first thing I found is that you are off on the water and lye. Lye should be 2.2 and 2.3 will put you in the 1% superfat area. Water if doing cp could be 5.5 Small batches of soap are harder to do for beginngers because errors really have a big effect. > #2= chamomile & jasmine soap: 1c cham/jasmine tea water, 2.2 lye, 1c > milk 8 oz cocoa butter, 5 oz palm oil, 3 oz castor oil. Here again you are off on the lye and water. All ingredients need to be weighted not measured by the cup. A cup is 16 ounces more or less and this recipe calls for 6 ounces. The lye is 2.08 at 2.2 you are using more lye than a 0% superfat. > #3= milk & cocoa bath bar: 3 oz water, 4 oz milk, 2 oz lye 6 oz > cocoa butter, 6oz palm oil, 3 oz castor oil. 2 T cocoa powder to > color 1/2 recipe. Here again your water or liquid is off with 6 ounces called for and if doing cp could be reduced to 5. The lye is again in the 2% superfat area which could give you trouble. There is another kind of castor which you should be able to get at a pharmicy. I would also recommend that you run all recipes through the lye calculator before doing them. Even if you get them from your best friend or out of a book. Errors happen and the botched batch will be your reward. I have never used Turkey Red in soap and have not run into any off hand that have. So this might also be your trouble. If your soap looks like applesauce it has gone past trace already. If you were doing hp you would just continue on with the cook and it would come to soap in the end. I had a batch that I used rose geranium eo in and it went this way too. I dumped it into the mold and it went to gel and came out fine the next day. Hope this helps and I think you just need to be more careful in your formulating. Chris > It's gotta be the turkey red! ! Just gotta! It's the first time I've > used it other than as a superfat after trace, and to all of a sudden > have so many failures.... It looks like normal soap for about 15 > seconds, then gets like applesause. Maybe if I could just pour > faster. Not wait for trace. But if it doesn't saponify, then maybe > it'd burn the skin right off ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Never toss a batch of soap. It can most always be fixed and it most certainly can be fixed if it is lye heavy. Chris If it's lye heavy, then you have to toss it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 In a message dated 11/14/2004 5:06:54 PM Central Standard Time, Olatou@... writes: , thank you for those funny scenarios. I thought I was the only one who did such things. Rose Then there was the lb. of specialty oil, I " forgot " to add. So, I pulled it out of the mold, poured in the forgotten oil, and went at it with a stick blender. It harded up quickly and broke my stick blender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Ok. As I suspected. I will be tossing all soaps made with the turkey red oil, I'm sure they must be lye heavy since the TRO didn't saponify. Thank you all so much for the input. So I guess I'll be making lots and lots of bath oils to use up the turkey red I was given. Other ideas of uses would be appreciated. Also, what do ya do about the smell - just use lots of EO/FO? > > Yes, you are right! > Turkey Red Oil is a sulphonated castor oil which is different from > castor oil by itself. In fact it is a surfactant and is used as an > emulsifier meanwhile castor oil is an oil. > YOU CANNOT REPLACE CASTOR OIL WITH TURKEY RED OIL!. > > Regards, > > Gadele > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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