Guest guest Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 When inquiring about what the cows eat, I haven't found a farmer yet who pastures his cows. Generally they are fed hay, corn sileage and grain. Is that milk still worth drinking? I'm new here and don't know very much yet, so please bear with me! Should I also be asking other questions about how the cows are treated? I do usually ask about the antibiotic use. What else do I need to be aware of? My husband and I have discussed the possibility of having our own cow. We live on 5 acres, so we could pasture a cow. But that seems very daunting and time consuming, especially when we don't really know the first thing about milking a cow. Any thoughts? What would the ideal small dairy farm look like? How many cows, how large a pasture, etc. Thanks so much. Dona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 I would avoid ANY operation that feeds cardboard manure etc like the plague. Producing quality milk and beef CAN be done very economically on forage and winter hay without the use of GARBAGE fillers. Stuffing a cow full of corn and grain is just not necessary, bad for the cow, the milk quality, and the overall quality of beef. Dairies and beef producers wouldn't use this #$@@ if they didn't have to pay protection to the industry in the way of quota fees and if they where allowed to actually sell what they produce to the consumer. So if you are buying from a producer that doesn't pasture you are getting a second rate reduced quality product. With god knows what floating in it that you don't want to be consuming. Kurtis > > Hi, > This is just not true. If you look up " What do cows eat " on the Internet you will find > out what cows really eat. I know someone in the cow feeding business and they > sell chicken manure, cardboard etc. for cow feed. There is an article on cow feed > on the internet saying that the farmer would have to sell half of his animals if he did > not have chicken manure to feed his animals. I could look it up and send it on > to people if they cannot find the article. I should be able to find it again. Corn is just > too expensive to feed animals today. We lived next to a farmer and never saw any > animals. They were in the barn. One day they got loose and came over to our > farm to eat grass. The farmer said it is too expensive in the midwest to have > animals on grass. Corn produces a cash crop for a farmer. Alice > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 I would avoid ANY operation that feeds cardboard manure etc like the plague. Producing quality milk and beef CAN be done very economically on forage and winter hay without the use of GARBAGE fillers. Stuffing a cow full of corn and grain is just not necessary, bad for the cow, the milk quality, and the overall quality of beef. Dairies and beef producers wouldn't use this #$@@ if they didn't have to pay protection to the industry in the way of quota fees and if they where allowed to actually sell what they produce to the consumer. So if you are buying from a producer that doesn't pasture you are getting a second rate reduced quality product. With god knows what floating in it that you don't want to be consuming. Kurtis > > Hi, > This is just not true. If you look up " What do cows eat " on the Internet you will find > out what cows really eat. I know someone in the cow feeding business and they > sell chicken manure, cardboard etc. for cow feed. There is an article on cow feed > on the internet saying that the farmer would have to sell half of his animals if he did > not have chicken manure to feed his animals. I could look it up and send it on > to people if they cannot find the article. I should be able to find it again. Corn is just > too expensive to feed animals today. We lived next to a farmer and never saw any > animals. They were in the barn. One day they got loose and came over to our > farm to eat grass. The farmer said it is too expensive in the midwest to have > animals on grass. Corn produces a cash crop for a farmer. Alice > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Dona, If I may make a suggestion... You mentioned that you have friends who have a cow. Could you spend an afternoon with your friends and their cow, asking questions about their experience with milking their cow? There are so many things to learn with a dairy cow, and after 2 1/2 years of marriage to a dairy farmer, I'm still learning! You may want to spend some time actually feeding, milking, etc., to see if the work is what you want to do. Remember, with a dairy cow, there are no overnight trips, unless you can find a trusted person to milk your cow, and no late nights out, because you still have to come home and milk (never fun at midnight when you're tired). Hope this helps - I think in your situation getting some 'hands on' experience will better tell you if you want a milk cow after all. Cheryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Dona, If I may make a suggestion... You mentioned that you have friends who have a cow. Could you spend an afternoon with your friends and their cow, asking questions about their experience with milking their cow? There are so many things to learn with a dairy cow, and after 2 1/2 years of marriage to a dairy farmer, I'm still learning! You may want to spend some time actually feeding, milking, etc., to see if the work is what you want to do. Remember, with a dairy cow, there are no overnight trips, unless you can find a trusted person to milk your cow, and no late nights out, because you still have to come home and milk (never fun at midnight when you're tired). Hope this helps - I think in your situation getting some 'hands on' experience will better tell you if you want a milk cow after all. Cheryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 A cow will calve about once a year if you breed her back for that. Generally you milk them for ten months and dry them up for 2 months before calving to give them a break. If the breeding gets off they will milk for well over a year but the milk volume will drop off. My friend who has 1 cow is fortunate to know a farmer that he can fill in his dry months with. LOL!!! Some folks do have more than one and time the milking to always have milk. Cheyenne > > Cheyenne, > > Thanks so much for this! Definitely helpful! > > Could I ask you another question? You mentioned " at the end of their lactation " ... does that mean one cow won't suffice? Do you need to rotate them? How long does the lactation last? Do they need to calve every so often to continue to produce milk? Can they give milk during pregnancy (assuming they have already had their first calf)? > > Thanks so much. > Dona > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 A cow will calve about once a year if you breed her back for that. Generally you milk them for ten months and dry them up for 2 months before calving to give them a break. If the breeding gets off they will milk for well over a year but the milk volume will drop off. My friend who has 1 cow is fortunate to know a farmer that he can fill in his dry months with. LOL!!! Some folks do have more than one and time the milking to always have milk. Cheyenne > > Cheyenne, > > Thanks so much for this! Definitely helpful! > > Could I ask you another question? You mentioned " at the end of their lactation " ... does that mean one cow won't suffice? Do you need to rotate them? How long does the lactation last? Do they need to calve every so often to continue to produce milk? Can they give milk during pregnancy (assuming they have already had their first calf)? > > Thanks so much. > Dona > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 I think that research is coming from a factory farm mindset where the cow is simply something to be abused, used, and thrown away. Take all you can get mentality. When they only get a lactation or two they aren't willing to give up on any milk, or they push the cows so hard with the garbage they feed and the hormone injections it can be hard to dry up. I use all bull breeding and sometimes when bumping for a calf it is hard to tell or the cow is milking fairly well and one gets less than 2 months. I can always tell when they freshen that the cow milks less or isn't in as good of condition, etc. I'm a firm believer in at least 60 days and sometimes longer if conditions warrant. Cheyenne > > > I have been doing some reading and there are studies that show that 60 days dry is to long and has a negative impact on the cow. They are recommending 20 to 30 days. This causes less metabolic changes in the cow and improves the production on the next lactation. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 I think that research is coming from a factory farm mindset where the cow is simply something to be abused, used, and thrown away. Take all you can get mentality. When they only get a lactation or two they aren't willing to give up on any milk, or they push the cows so hard with the garbage they feed and the hormone injections it can be hard to dry up. I use all bull breeding and sometimes when bumping for a calf it is hard to tell or the cow is milking fairly well and one gets less than 2 months. I can always tell when they freshen that the cow milks less or isn't in as good of condition, etc. I'm a firm believer in at least 60 days and sometimes longer if conditions warrant. Cheyenne > > > I have been doing some reading and there are studies that show that 60 days dry is to long and has a negative impact on the cow. They are recommending 20 to 30 days. This causes less metabolic changes in the cow and improves the production on the next lactation. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 One I really like is Natural Cattle Care by Pat Coleby. She ties in soil fertility and the nutrient deficiencies that lead to all diseases. She is from Australia where poor soil is the norm and has figured out how to prevent most problems through good nutrition and what to use to deal with the problems you may run into. It's probably not feasible to have a bull for one cow. Sometimes a neighbor will have a bull you can use. If you do AI(artificial insemination) make sure to use a New Zealand bull or one that is geared to pasture and longevity verses production only as most bulls are in this country. Unfortunately, US dairy farmers have been on the production only mindset for so long they have bred huge, inefficient cows that take incredible amounts of inputs and burn out rapidly. This is good for everyone that feeds off the farmer, but not good for the farmer and certainly not the cow. Thanks for the compliment, I talk to farmers all over the US and love sharing real life, common sense knowledge about organic grass fed dairy. It is the future and the more folks getting in on it the better. The sooner we can eliminate chemical industrial ag the better. Our children deserve nothing less! Cheyenne > > Cheyenne, > > Thanks again for your input. Do you know of any books that teach someone like me about milking cows? What's best for them, how to breed them, etc, from a healthy perspective, not the mass dairy production perspective? > > When it comes to bulls... is it best to have one yourself? Is it expensive to have one come to breed with your cow? I'm assuming you don't want to breed the offspring with each other. > > Thanks again! You are a wealth of great knowledge. > > Sincerely, > Dona > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 One I really like is Natural Cattle Care by Pat Coleby. She ties in soil fertility and the nutrient deficiencies that lead to all diseases. She is from Australia where poor soil is the norm and has figured out how to prevent most problems through good nutrition and what to use to deal with the problems you may run into. It's probably not feasible to have a bull for one cow. Sometimes a neighbor will have a bull you can use. If you do AI(artificial insemination) make sure to use a New Zealand bull or one that is geared to pasture and longevity verses production only as most bulls are in this country. Unfortunately, US dairy farmers have been on the production only mindset for so long they have bred huge, inefficient cows that take incredible amounts of inputs and burn out rapidly. This is good for everyone that feeds off the farmer, but not good for the farmer and certainly not the cow. Thanks for the compliment, I talk to farmers all over the US and love sharing real life, common sense knowledge about organic grass fed dairy. It is the future and the more folks getting in on it the better. The sooner we can eliminate chemical industrial ag the better. Our children deserve nothing less! Cheyenne > > Cheyenne, > > Thanks again for your input. Do you know of any books that teach someone like me about milking cows? What's best for them, how to breed them, etc, from a healthy perspective, not the mass dairy production perspective? > > When it comes to bulls... is it best to have one yourself? Is it expensive to have one come to breed with your cow? I'm assuming you don't want to breed the offspring with each other. > > Thanks again! You are a wealth of great knowledge. > > Sincerely, > Dona > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 The change in diet you mention is what happens on " modern " dairies. They go from high protein, lots of grain and by products to the dry cow ration which may be a lot of corn silage(garbage)or sometimes hay, which is what they should get in the first place. My cows go from grass to grass in the summer and hay to hay in the winter so there is no extreme metabolic change for them. I do separate dry cows to make it easier to milk so they aren't all coming into the barn getting in the way. I have found the dry period as an important time for the cows to have a break and put on a little extra fat reserves. The neat thing about grass fat is that the cows milk it off but don't have the metabolic problems grain fat causes, which is another reason " modern " dairies want to cut down on the dry period as they feed too much grain and often get cows grain fat. And then there is the moral part of it. I think the cow deserves a break for all she does milking 10 out of 12 months. That may not be " efficient " to those that take all they can get, but I think it's right. My farm is based on true efficiency (sustainability)and good health. I feed no grain and use prevention as a motto. I have none of the problems you listed but unlike most dairy farmers in the US today, I have a couple other things, like longevity, quality of life(for my family and the cows), and profitability without needing hundreds of cows or exploiting Mexicans. I don't consider a 350 cow grass based dairy as a factory farm, but do find it unnecessary to have that many cows. Cheyenne > > > A cow is a metabolic living being and when you study good health you look at all aspects of their lives. As long as they are in balance they do well. The minute they are out of balance, blot, ketoses, milk fever they have problems. It was found that much of a change in diet and input affected the metabolic rate of the cow. I don't think it matters if they live their lives on a small farm or a large one. Good health is good health and being efficient is sometimes the best way to go. Not all large herds are kept in poor conditions. I get calves from a 350 cow farm that is 90% pasture based and their animals do very well. > > > > I think that research is coming from a factory farm mindset where > the cow is simply something to be abused, used, and thrown away. Take Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 The change in diet you mention is what happens on " modern " dairies. They go from high protein, lots of grain and by products to the dry cow ration which may be a lot of corn silage(garbage)or sometimes hay, which is what they should get in the first place. My cows go from grass to grass in the summer and hay to hay in the winter so there is no extreme metabolic change for them. I do separate dry cows to make it easier to milk so they aren't all coming into the barn getting in the way. I have found the dry period as an important time for the cows to have a break and put on a little extra fat reserves. The neat thing about grass fat is that the cows milk it off but don't have the metabolic problems grain fat causes, which is another reason " modern " dairies want to cut down on the dry period as they feed too much grain and often get cows grain fat. And then there is the moral part of it. I think the cow deserves a break for all she does milking 10 out of 12 months. That may not be " efficient " to those that take all they can get, but I think it's right. My farm is based on true efficiency (sustainability)and good health. I feed no grain and use prevention as a motto. I have none of the problems you listed but unlike most dairy farmers in the US today, I have a couple other things, like longevity, quality of life(for my family and the cows), and profitability without needing hundreds of cows or exploiting Mexicans. I don't consider a 350 cow grass based dairy as a factory farm, but do find it unnecessary to have that many cows. Cheyenne > > > A cow is a metabolic living being and when you study good health you look at all aspects of their lives. As long as they are in balance they do well. The minute they are out of balance, blot, ketoses, milk fever they have problems. It was found that much of a change in diet and input affected the metabolic rate of the cow. I don't think it matters if they live their lives on a small farm or a large one. Good health is good health and being efficient is sometimes the best way to go. Not all large herds are kept in poor conditions. I get calves from a 350 cow farm that is 90% pasture based and their animals do very well. > > > > I think that research is coming from a factory farm mindset where > the cow is simply something to be abused, used, and thrown away. Take Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Hi I agree with the others that the study must be from a factory farming model and not taking the health of the cows into account. In fact I hear that quite a few farms in the US are now not attempting to get the cows incalf a second time, they just keep using that hormone to keep them milking until they die or burn out which is averaging about 1.4 yrs. So be careful when reading studies. Just look at the breed societies as a guide on mating management. For well over 100 years all over the world they base all their statistics and records for their cows on a maximum of 305 days production per year. I take that to mean that over time they assessed that this is the maximum they could push the cows both productively and sustainably. Ray NZ Jeneraytions Organic Dairy Farm Ray & Ridings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Hi I agree with the others that the study must be from a factory farming model and not taking the health of the cows into account. In fact I hear that quite a few farms in the US are now not attempting to get the cows incalf a second time, they just keep using that hormone to keep them milking until they die or burn out which is averaging about 1.4 yrs. So be careful when reading studies. Just look at the breed societies as a guide on mating management. For well over 100 years all over the world they base all their statistics and records for their cows on a maximum of 305 days production per year. I take that to mean that over time they assessed that this is the maximum they could push the cows both productively and sustainably. Ray NZ Jeneraytions Organic Dairy Farm Ray & Ridings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 This is interesting. So a bull born in the Spring is old enough to breed your cow in the fall? How many months old do you usually butcher him at? I plan to use a goat kid born this year (if one is a buckling) to breed another doe we have in the fall, and then wether him for a cart/pack goat. I never considered it for a bull though. Are they agresive by this age? Thanks. Vickie MI > I raise a new bull every year. We eat the one from the current year. I get pure bred from AI bull calves from a dairy that I get calves from. She will even tell me if a bull calf has good qualities. The one I have should improve my udders. One of my first fresheners came from imported semen. She is a really nice cow and the gal I got the bull from never got a heifer from that semen. I find that keeping a bull is well worth it and this year I only bred thee cows. My bull did better and I rented him out to two other places in the same time I used him. When he went he was 1035 lbs live weight. > Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 This is interesting. So a bull born in the Spring is old enough to breed your cow in the fall? How many months old do you usually butcher him at? I plan to use a goat kid born this year (if one is a buckling) to breed another doe we have in the fall, and then wether him for a cart/pack goat. I never considered it for a bull though. Are they agresive by this age? Thanks. Vickie MI > I raise a new bull every year. We eat the one from the current year. I get pure bred from AI bull calves from a dairy that I get calves from. She will even tell me if a bull calf has good qualities. The one I have should improve my udders. One of my first fresheners came from imported semen. She is a really nice cow and the gal I got the bull from never got a heifer from that semen. I find that keeping a bull is well worth it and this year I only bred thee cows. My bull did better and I rented him out to two other places in the same time I used him. When he went he was 1035 lbs live weight. > Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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