[SPAM]Re: be safe when you run/walk

[Guest guest]

Kassia,

I teach a women's self defense class and one of the first things I tell the women I teach is that eye contact is one of your best defenses. Most preditors won't go for a victim that can identify them. If you make it obvious that you've seen them and can recognize them in a line up, they'll think twice before messing with you. That being said, I also don't recommend carrying a weapon of any kind because, like Carolyn said, it can be taken away and used on you. What I teach in my classes is:

1. Scream your head off! That way not only can you identify them, but so can any bystanders. Since they can't kill everyone, usually they will run off.

2. If they have a weapon, take it. This requires some kind of training usually, but the basics are to grab the barrel of the gun, the bat itself, or the hand if they are holding a knife, and twist. They expect you to grab and pull, but when you twist, it puts too much pressure on their wrist and they can't continue to hold on. I say the barrel of the gun because whoever controls the barrel controls where the bullet goes, and more then likely if you grab for the gun they are going to pull the trigger. It will burn like crazy to hold the barrel of the gun at that point, but it could mean the difference between a bullet to the head or a bullet flying over or beside your head.

3. Once you have their weapon, use it. Preferrably on their legs so they can't get up and follow you or get away. Wherever is necessary if they keep coming after you.

4. If they don't have a weapon, take their knees out. Regardless of what they are trying to do to you, wheather they are in front of you or behind you, or beside you, you have access to their knees. Use what all those kickboxing tapes have taught you and kick their knees. With a blown out knee, they can't chase you.

5. Get the hell out of their and go call the cops. If you've left them imobilized by taking their legs out they'll still be there when the cops arrive, or they'll be on their way to the hospital where the cops can find them.

Obviously, the classes are a little more in depth with the how to of the techniques, as well as specific ways to get away if someone grabs you or pins you down or something like that, but hopefully, you will never need anything more then the pep talk.

Tonya

[sPAM] Re: be safe when you run/walk

that is true carolyn. i was thinking of carrying both. but on anothernote if dh and i were to be trained leaders for scouts they want usthrough a safety course for the swiss army knife(as well as get ourown). not really for a weapon but its something at my disposal to useif i had to(cut rope,saw something etc),or of a tool. i try not to actscared though b/c i think that is what these punks that do things relyon,fear. i hope the eye contact and the kill them with kindness(heyman hows it going)will throw them off b/c they aren't expectingthat.many kids know me from work anyway LOL so if anything i get moreof a "hey lunchlady" but its the older gang looking members thatconcern me. if you see a group of them wearing the same color keepyour distance. kassia> > um, i dont think it is a good idea to carry a weapon like that > kassia, no matter what the laws are. just because it can be > taken from you and used against you in a deadly way. how about > carrying pepper spray or an alternative?> :*carolyn.>

[Guest guest]

excellent points tonya!! esp. the taking out the legs. i have a pull out from a magazine with some moves but i much prefer a trainer on hand to teach. i think with the robberies on the rise in this city its something somebody should donate their time for. with 5 or more karate/martial arts schools in the area you would think they would get together with the city and do some free classes. why should somebody not learn when they can't afford the class? this is just my opinion though LOL. my step dad(the piece of rubbish he is anyway) did teach the old get the knife stab it in the groin and twist attack(something like the movie face off).i am short enough to be able to take out knees b/c that is how dh and i wrestle when we are playing around. i always go for a leg swoop or a grab of the knee and pull him down!thanks tonya and everyone this is a great

topic in general for us galskassia ldy_solana's domainScouting for All Too many people spend money they haven't earned to buy things they don¢t want to impress people they don¢t like.-Will Subject: Re: [sPAM] Re: be safe when you run/walkTo: exercisevideos Date: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 10:03 AM

Kassia,

I teach a women's self defense class and one of the first things I tell the women I teach is that eye contact is one of your best defenses. Most preditors won't go for a victim that can identify them. If you make it obvious that you've seen them and can recognize them in a line up, they'll think twice before messing with you. That being said, I also don't recommend carrying a weapon of any kind because, like Carolyn said, it can be taken away and used on you. What I teach in my classes is:

1. Scream your head off! That way not only can you identify them, but so can any bystanders. Since they can't kill everyone, usually they will run off.

2. If they have a weapon, take it. This requires some kind of training usually, but the basics are to grab the barrel of the gun, the bat itself, or the hand if they are holding a knife, and twist. They expect you to grab and pull, but when you twist, it puts too much pressure on their wrist and they can't continue to hold on. I say the barrel of the gun because whoever controls the barrel controls where the bullet goes, and more then likely if you grab for the gun they are going to pull the trigger. It will burn like crazy to hold the barrel of the gun at that point, but it could mean the difference between a bullet to the head or a bullet flying over or beside your head.

3. Once you have their weapon, use it. Preferrably on their legs so they can't get up and follow you or get away. Wherever is necessary if they keep coming after you.

4. If they don't have a weapon, take their knees out. Regardless of what they are trying to do to you, wheather they are in front of you or behind you, or beside you, you have access to their knees. Use what all those kickboxing tapes have taught you and kick their knees. With a blown out knee, they can't chase you.

5. Get the hell out of their and go call the cops. If you've left them imobilized by taking their legs out they'll still be there when the cops arrive, or they'll be on their way to the hospital where the cops can find them.

Obviously, the classes are a little more in depth with the how to of the techniques, as well as specific ways to get away if someone grabs you or pins you down or something like that, but hopefully, you will never need anything more then the pep talk.

Tonya

[sPAM] Re: be safe when you run/walk

that is true carolyn. i was thinking of carrying both. but on anothernote if dh and i were to be trained leaders for scouts they want usthrough a safety course for the swiss army knife(as well as get ourown). not really for a weapon but its something at my disposal to useif i had to(cut rope,saw something etc),or of a tool. i try not to actscared though b/c i think that is what these punks that do things relyon,fear. i hope the eye contact and the kill them with kindness(heyman hows it going)will throw them off b/c they aren't expectingthat.many kids know me from work anyway LOL so if anything i get moreof a "hey lunchlady" but its the older gang looking members thatconcern me. if you see a group of them wearing the same color keepyour distance. kassia> > um, i dont think it is a good idea to carry a weapon like that > kassia, no matter what the laws are. just because it can be > taken from you and used against you in a deadly way. how about > carrying pepper spray or an alternative?> :*carolyn.>

[Guest guest]

I took a karate-based self-defence course years ago, but it was very good. They, like Tonya, stressed going for the knees. They also recommended yelling "FIRE!" as opposed to just Help, as people always run to see a fire, whereas they may not want to get involved in a mugging, etc.

I walked on the tmill yesterday and today. Yesterday I totalled 55 minutes (yay!) - two 15 min sessions, and then 25 (to finish an episode of Farscape). The shorter walks didn't bother my hip, but the longer walk did. Today I did just 20 minutes, since it's supposed to be a rest day. I must admit I love having a tmill - no safety issues, no weather problems, and it's allowed me to walk even when the kids are home - I can still keep an ear open, but I do get a bit of a break from them.

-----Original Message-----From: exercisevideos [mailto:exercisevideos ]On Behalf Of Kassia

excellent points tonya!! esp. the taking out the legs. i have a pull out from a magazine with some moves but i much prefer a trainer on hand to teach. i think with the robberies on the rise in this city its something somebody should donate their time for. with 5 or more karate/martial arts schools in the area you would think they would get together with the city and do some free classes. why should somebody not learn when they can't afford the class? this is just my opinion though LOL. my step dad(the piece of rubbish he is anyway) did teach the old get the knife stab it in the groin and twist attack(something like the movie face off).i am short enough to be able to take out knees b/c that is how dh and i wrestle when we are playing around. i always go for a leg swoop or a grab of the knee and pull him down!thanks tonya and everyone this is a great topic in general for us galskassia

Scouting for All

[Guest guest]

As someone who has trained in martial arts/self-defense for much of my

life, I'd like to offer some mixed reaction to Tonya's advice.

I always tell people that 90% of self-defense is avoiding situations

where you are likely to have to defend yourself in the first place.

For runners/walkers this could mean not running/walking in areas known

to be prone to crime, not running/walking alone or in deserted area,

things of that nature. As for some of the suggestions Tonya offered,

let me quote and respond:

>

>

> I teach a women's self defense class and one of the first things I

tell the women I teach is that eye contact is one of your best

defenses. Most preditors won't go for a victim that can identify

them. If you make it obvious that you've seen them and can recognize

them in a line up, they'll think twice before messing with you. That

being said, I also don't recommend carrying a weapon of any kind

because, like Carolyn said, it can be taken away and used on you.

The advice " Don't carry a weapon because it can be used against you "

is commonly given, but I think it's given more to protect the adviser

from legal liability than anything else. Attackers usually bring

their own weapons, and they fear victims who might be armed. (Witness

the drops in personal crime in states that allow citizens to carry

concealed weapons and the lack of instances of such weapons being

taken away and used on their owners.) So I'm all for carrying

whatever weapons you can legally carry. Any kind of spray though is a

crapshoot because it's hard to control. It only works on a limited

area of the body, and even police end up getting a lot of it on

themselves when they have to use it.

>

> 1. Scream your head off! That way not only can you identify them,

but so can any bystanders. Since they can't kill everyone, usually

they will run off.

I agree, this is good. In addition, try swearing at the attacker.

Men expect women to be calm, docile and compliant, but if you respond

with something like, " Get your f***ing hands off me, mother******! " (

and sound like you mean it) it will catch him by surprise and maybe

make him think you're a lot stronger than he hoped. It will also

attract a lot of attention if there are other witnesses around.

>

> 2. If they have a weapon, take it. This requires some kind of

training usually, but the basics are to grab the barrel of the gun,

the bat itself, or the hand if they are holding a knife, and twist.

They expect you to grab and pull, but when you twist, it puts too much

pressure on their wrist and they can't continue to hold on. I say the

barrel of the gun because whoever controls the barrel controls where

the bullet goes, and more then likely if you grab for the gun they are

going to pull the trigger. It will burn like crazy to hold the barrel

of the gun at that point, but it could mean the difference between a

bullet to the head or a bullet flying over or beside your head.

I wouldn't try to take away a weapon unless there is NO other option.

It's very hard to get a weapon away from a determined attacker. If

you do get a weapon away, staying around to use it on the attacker

should be the last option. Running away would be better if possible,

though it won't always be.

>

> 3. Once you have their weapon, use it. Preferrably on their legs

so they can't get up and follow you or get away. Wherever is

necessary if they keep coming after you.

If you do get a weapon away, staying around to use it on the attacker

should be the last option. If you do use it on the attacker, there

are some other considerations. First, in a high-stress situation like

an assault, you can't select certain body parts to hit. Under stress

the brain loses the fine concentration required to make such choices.

This is why it's nonsense to suggest that police should shoot an

attacker in leg. Police train to shoot the center of mass (i.e. the

middle of the torso) because that gives the shot the greatest chance

of hitting someplace.

Secondly, if you use a weapon on an attacker, you need to be concerned

about legal liability (unfortunately). It's going to depend on the

situation, but some moronic lawyer and jury could then construe you to

be the attacker if you overreact. It's probably reasonable to take

away, say, a baseball bat and use it once so that you can run away.

It becomes another thing to take the bat away, smack your attacker in

the knee so that he goes down and then continue to beat him to death.

However, several states have enacted " Castle Doctrine " laws which

correct this idiocy by saying that a law-abiding citizen is justified

in using deadly force if he/she is attacked in a place where he/she

has a right to be. Check the laws in your state. All that having

been said, a female victim will probably have a legal advantage when

it comes to using serious force though.

>

> 4. If they don't have a weapon, take their knees out. Regardless

of what they are trying to do to you, wheather they are in front of

you or behind you, or beside you, you have access to their knees. Use

what all those kickboxing tapes have taught you and kick their knees.

With a blown out knee, they can't chase you.

>

The knee is a good place to hit. Once you've done that, go for the

groin, but only as a follow-up strike because men instinctively

protect themselves down there. (Trust me, that's the first place we

expect to get hit.)

> 5. Get the hell out of their and go call the cops. If you've left

them imobilized by taking their legs out they'll still be there when

the cops arrive, or they'll be on their way to the hospital where the

cops can find them.

>

Getting away safely should be the highest priority, so I agree.

Anyway, that's my two cents. Stay safe, everyone!

[Guest guest]

Thanks for all your insights, both of you! I agree that avoiding a situation is the first priority.

And, although I'm not exactly pro-gun, I agree w/ about the stats and I hope to see some changes in the laws after the superme court ruling. I live in MD and although I'm not 100% sure of the laws, I'm sure we're not allowed to carry anything to protect ourselves. D.C. has an extremely high crime rate and guns are banned there - go figure. When will they learn that people who obtain guns legally for their own protection are not the cause of crimes being committed w/ guns? DUH!

Take care,

Donna

Subject: [sPAM] Re: be safe when you run/walkTo: exercisevideos Date: Monday, June 30, 2008, 1:17 PM

As someone who has trained in martial arts/self-defense for much of mylife, I'd like to offer some mixed reaction to Tonya's advice. I always tell people that 90% of self-defense is avoiding situationswhere you are likely to have to defend yourself in the first place. For runners/walkers this could mean not running/walking in areas knownto be prone to crime, not running/walking alone or in deserted area,things of that nature. As for some of the suggestions Tonya offered,let me quote and respond:>> > I teach a women's self defense class and one of the first things Itell the women I teach is that eye contact is one of your bestdefenses. Most preditors won't go for a victim that can identifythem. If you make it

obvious that you've seen them and can recognizethem in a line up, they'll think twice before messing with you. Thatbeing said, I also don't recommend carrying a weapon of any kindbecause, like Carolyn said, it can be taken away and used on you. The advice "Don't carry a weapon because it can be used against you"is commonly given, but I think it's given more to protect the adviserfrom legal liability than anything else. Attackers usually bringtheir own weapons, and they fear victims who might be armed. (Witnessthe drops in personal crime in states that allow citizens to carryconcealed weapons and the lack of instances of such weapons beingtaken away and used on their owners.) So I'm all for carryingwhatever weapons you can legally carry. Any kind of spray though is acrapshoot because it's hard to control. It only works on a limitedarea of the body, and even police end up getting a lot of it

onthemselves when they have to use it.> > 1. Scream your head off! That way not only can you identify them,but so can any bystanders. Since they can't kill everyone, usuallythey will run off.I agree, this is good. In addition, try swearing at the attacker. Men expect women to be calm, docile and compliant, but if you respondwith something like, "Get your f***ing hands off me, mother****** !" (and sound like you mean it) it will catch him by surprise and maybemake him think you're a lot stronger than he hoped. It will alsoattract a lot of attention if there are other witnesses around.> > 2. If they have a weapon, take it. This requires some kind oftraining usually, but the basics are to grab the barrel of the gun,the bat itself, or the hand if they are holding a knife, and twist. They expect you to grab and pull, but when you twist, it puts too muchpressure on

their wrist and they can't continue to hold on. I say thebarrel of the gun because whoever controls the barrel controls wherethe bullet goes, and more then likely if you grab for the gun they aregoing to pull the trigger. It will burn like crazy to hold the barrelof the gun at that point, but it could mean the difference between abullet to the head or a bullet flying over or beside your head.I wouldn't try to take away a weapon unless there is NO other option.It's very hard to get a weapon away from a determined attacker. Ifyou do get a weapon away, staying around to use it on the attackershould be the last option. Running away would be better if possible,though it won't always be. > > 3. Once you have their weapon, use it. Preferrably on their legsso they can't get up and follow you or get away. Wherever isnecessary if they keep coming after you.If you do get a weapon away,

staying around to use it on the attackershould be the last option. If you do use it on the attacker, thereare some other considerations. First, in a high-stress situation likean assault, you can't select certain body parts to hit. Under stressthe brain loses the fine concentration required to make such choices.This is why it's nonsense to suggest that police should shoot anattacker in leg. Police train to shoot the center of mass (i.e. themiddle of the torso) because that gives the shot the greatest chanceof hitting someplace.Secondly, if you use a weapon on an attacker, you need to be concernedabout legal liability (unfortunately) . It's going to depend on thesituation, but some moronic lawyer and jury could then construe you tobe the attacker if you overreact. It's probably reasonable to takeaway, say, a baseball bat and use it once so that you can run away. It becomes another thing to take

the bat away, smack your attacker inthe knee so that he goes down and then continue to beat him to death.However, several states have enacted "Castle Doctrine" laws whichcorrect this idiocy by saying that a law-abiding citizen is justifiedin using deadly force if he/she is attacked in a place where he/shehas a right to be. Check the laws in your state. All that havingbeen said, a female victim will probably have a legal advantage whenit comes to using serious force though.> > 4. If they don't have a weapon, take their knees out. Regardlessof what they are trying to do to you, wheather they are in front ofyou or behind you, or beside you, you have access to their knees. Usewhat all those kickboxing tapes have taught you and kick their knees.With a blown out knee, they can't chase you.> The knee is a good place to hit. Once you've done that, go for thegroin, but only as a

follow-up strike because men instinctivelyprotect themselves down there. (Trust me, that's the first place weexpect to get hit.)> 5. Get the hell out of their and go call the cops. If you've leftthem imobilized by taking their legs out they'll still be there whenthe cops arrive, or they'll be on their way to the hospital where thecops can find them.> Getting away safely should be the highest priority, so I agree.Anyway, that's my two cents. Stay safe, everyone!