RE: THORACIC OUTLET SYNDROME AS A DISORDER OF NEUROGENIC INFLAMMATION

[Guest guest]

Oh that is just comical .... as 'they' reach to create non-structural reasoning for the regional problem. There is so much more I could say about this study but today is one of my 'being a lady' days so will keep my thoughts to myself. SunnySunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com To: oregondcs From: sharronf@...Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:58:31 -0700Subject: THORACIC OUTLET SYNDROME AS A DISORDER OF NEUROGENIC INFLAMMATION

FYI. s. fuchs dc

http://www.doctorellis.com/TOS_neurogenic.html

[Guest guest]

It actually, to me, makes great sense and

I appreciate the added insight. There is a lot more to TOS than the structural

component.

s.fuchs dc

From: Sunny Kierstyn

Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 2:14

PM

To: Sharron Fuchs; oregondcs

Subject: RE:

THORACIC OUTLET SYNDROME AS A DISORDER OF NEUROGENIC INFLAMMATION

Oh that is just comical .... as

'they' reach to create non-structural reasoning for the regional

problem.

There is so much more I could say about this study but today is one of my

'being a lady' days so will keep my thoughts to myself.

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC

Fibromyalgia Care

Center of Oregon

2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon,

97401

541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834

www.drsunnykierstyn.com

To: oregondcs

From: sharronf@...

Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:58:31 -0700

Subject: THORACIC OUTLET SYNDROME AS A DISORDER OF NEUROGENIC

INFLAMMATION

FYI. s. fuchs dc

http://www.doctorellis.com/TOS_neurogenic.html

[Guest guest]

Yes Sharron I agree and thankyou for keeping me up to date

Lonnie

To: skrndc1@...; oregondcs From: sharronf@...Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 14:22:04 -0700Subject: RE: THORACIC OUTLET SYNDROME AS A DISORDER OF NEUROGENIC INFLAMMATION

It actually, to me, makes great sense and I appreciate the added insight. There is a lot more to TOS than the structural component.

s.fuchs dc

From: Sunny Kierstyn Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 2:14 PMTo: Sharron Fuchs; oregondcsSubject: RE: THORACIC OUTLET SYNDROME AS A DISORDER OF NEUROGENIC INFLAMMATION

Oh that is just comical .... as 'they' reach to create non-structural reasoning for the regional problem. There is so much more I could say about this study but today is one of my 'being a lady' days so will keep my thoughts to myself. Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

To: oregondcs From: sharronf@...Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:58:31 -0700Subject: THORACIC OUTLET SYNDROME AS A DISORDER OF NEUROGENIC INFLAMMATION

FYI. s. fuchs dchttp://www.doctorellis.com/TOS_neurogenic.html

[Guest guest]

Sharron:

Wow! Great post. One of the best articles I've read on this listserv

in a long time. The hypothesis would certainly help to explain why

MVA cases take a while to recover and why they tend to experience

more sequelae.

I think this is the most important statement in the entire article

with regard to our practices:

"

This description of

pathological events and their consequences explains much of the

often cryptic initiation

and clinical progression of TOS.

The

spread of innervated fibrosis with continued reinjury presents a

mechanism for

increasing symptoms, the involvement of sympathetic and motor

nerves, as well

as distal, proximal and adjacent neural sensitization. Reflection

extends this

process to other entrapments as indicated by the prevalence of

intraoperative

reports of localized fibrosis, perineural thickening, and edema.

Idiopathic low

back pain, postoperative pain, and sacrococcygeal syndrome, among

others, could

have similar pathophysiologies."

Lyndon McGill, D.C.

EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member

Salem, Oregon

www.SalemSpineClinic.com

www.EvolvingDaily.com

FYI. s. fuchs dc

http://www.doctorellis.com/TOS_neurogenic.html

[Guest guest]

I have treated at least 30 clear cases of TOS over the last 20 years and the mechanism of causation appears to be totally mechanical.  I relieve the hypertonic scalene muscles with trigger point work and the problem resolves.

I am with Sunni on this one -as usual.  The article Sharron shares is entertaining but I believe it is simply out of touch with simple reality. Schneider DCPDX

 

FYI. s. fuchs dc

http://www.doctorellis.com/TOS_neurogenic.html

-- Schneider DC PDX

[Guest guest]

Dr.Schneider,

Same here! The unique nature of our profession and one of the many

reasons that M.D.'s resent us is that they see us making successful incursions into areas that they are unable to help.

Herb Freeman D.C.

Re: THORACIC OUTLET SYNDROME AS A DISORDER OF NEUROGENIC INFLAMMATION

I have treated at least 30 clear cases of TOS over the last 20 years and the mechanism of causation appears to be totally mechanical. I relieve the hypertonic scalene muscles with trigger point work and the problem resolves.I am with Sunni on this one -as usual. The article Sharron shares is entertaining but I believe it is simply out of touch with simple reality. Schneider DCPDX

FYI. s. fuchs dchttp://www.doctorellis.com/TOS_neurogenic.html

-- Schneider DC PDX

[Guest guest]

Isn't it all neurogenic at some level, Sharon? No matter the layers (structura, inflammatory) it is neurally compromised, isn't it? My patients certanly have indicated that reality. SunnySunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com To: oregondcs From: sharronf@...Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 10:20:43 -0700Subject: FW: THORACIC OUTLET SYNDROME AS A DISORDER OF NEUROGENIC INFLAMMATION

I will look forward to your publication(s)

on your cases. Remember this article is talking about a particular subtype of

TOS - Neurogenic. There are numerous subtypes. The article clearly discusses

structural issues as part of this subtype but also clearly says there are

symptomatic and asymptomatic people even with the structural changes. In the

symptomatic people it goes on to nicely discuss how the inflammatory component

develops and progresses.

I found it very helpful.

s. fuchs dc

From:

Schneider

Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012

11:14 PM

To: Sharron Fuchs

Cc: oregondcs

Subject: Re:

THORACIC OUTLET SYNDROME AS A DISORDER OF NEUROGENIC INFLAMMATION

I have treated at least

30 clear cases of TOS over the last 20 years and the mechanism of causation

appears to be totally mechanical. I relieve the hypertonic scalene

muscles with trigger point work and the problem resolves.

I am with Sunni on this one -as usual. The article Sharron shares is

entertaining but I believe it is simply out of touch with simple reality.

Schneider DC

PDX

FYI. s. fuchs dc

http://www.doctorellis.com/TOS_neurogenic.html

--

Schneider DC

PDX

[Guest guest]

I am talking about a diagnostic entity

with subtypes. This is the subtype of – Neurogenic.

s. fuchs dc

From: Sunny Kierstyn

Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012

11:11 AM

To: Sharron Fuchs; oregondcs

Subject: RE:

THORACIC OUTLET SYNDROME AS A DISORDER OF NEUROGENIC INFLAMMATION

Isn't it all neurogenic at some

level, Sharon?

No matter the layers (structura, inflammatory) it is neurally compromised,

isn't it? My patients certanly have indicated that reality.

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC

Fibromyalgia Care

Center of Oregon

2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon,

97401

541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834

www.drsunnykierstyn.com

To: oregondcs

From: sharronf@...

Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 10:20:43 -0700

Subject: FW: THORACIC OUTLET SYNDROME AS A DISORDER OF

NEUROGENIC INFLAMMATION

I will look forward to your publication(s)

on your cases. Remember this article is talking about a particular subtype of

TOS - Neurogenic. There are numerous subtypes. The article clearly discusses

structural issues as part of this subtype but also clearly says there are

symptomatic and asymptomatic people even with the structural changes. In the

symptomatic people it goes on to nicely discuss how the inflammatory component

develops and progresses.

I found it very helpful.

s. fuchs dc

From:

Schneider

Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012

11:14 PM

To: Sharron Fuchs

Cc: oregondcs

Subject: Re:

THORACIC OUTLET SYNDROME AS A DISORDER OF NEUROGENIC INFLAMMATION

I have treated at least 30 clear cases of TOS over the last 20 years

and the mechanism of causation appears to be totally mechanical. I

relieve the hypertonic scalene muscles with trigger point work and the problem

resolves.

I am with Sunni on this one -as usual. The article Sharron shares is

entertaining but I believe it is simply out of touch with simple reality.

Schneider DC

PDX

FYI. s. fuchs dc

http://www.doctorellis.com/TOS_neurogenic.html

--

Schneider DC

PDX

[Guest guest]

I am glad you liked it. It helped me immensely. It was great to consider why

,after 'fixing' the structural aspect, you can still have a severe independent

inflammatory component and direct treatment toward that. I have had some

success with high dose Vit C , Vit D and flaxseed oil along with structural

attention.

s. fuchs dc

> >

> >

> > FYI. s. fuchs dc

> >

> > http://www.doctorellis.com/TOS_neurogenic.html

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

This is a very significant paper. Read it > http://www.doctorellis.com/TOS_neurogenic.htmlMarc Hellerwww.marchellerdc.comwww.learnlowforce.commheller@...On May 8, 2012, at 5:43 PM, "sharron" wrote:

I am glad you liked it. It helped me immensely. It was great to consider why ,after 'fixing' the structural aspect, you can still have a severe independent inflammatory component and direct treatment toward that. I have had some success with high dose Vit C , Vit D and flaxseed oil along with structural attention.

s. fuchs dc

> >

> >

> > FYI. s. fuchs dc

> >

> > http://www.doctorellis.com/TOS_neurogenic.html

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The article is certainly an excellent descriptive document about the mechanisms and results of that level of trauma. Hopefully numerous allopaths will read it ..... seems to me to be something that we as chiropractors already know well. Structural trauma will result in physiologic trauma ... for full resolution, both need to be treated. Structural care and nutritional care win out .... once again. Sunny ;'-))Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com CC: oregondcs To: sharronf@...From: mheller@...Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 06:06:05 -0700Subject: Re: THORACIC OUTLET SYNDROME AS A DISORDER OF NEUROGENIC INFLAMMATION

This is a very significant paper. Read it > http://www.doctorellis.com/TOS_neurogenic.htmlMarc Hellerwww.marchellerdc.comwww.learnlowforce.commheller@...On May 8, 2012, at 5:43 PM, "sharron" wrote:

I am glad you liked it. It helped me immensely. It was great to consider why ,after 'fixing' the structural aspect, you can still have a severe independent inflammatory component and direct treatment toward that. I have had some success with high dose Vit C , Vit D and flaxseed oil along with structural attention.

s. fuchs dc

> >

> >

> > FYI. s. fuchs dc

> >

> > http://www.doctorellis.com/TOS_neurogenic.html

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

One very helpful thought for me was to try

to know when to stop aggravating the situation by too much manual therapy –

stretching, nerve flossing, needling, adjusting massage etc.. The best of

intentions can make matters severely worse and it can be extremely difficult for

the patient to deal with. To know that in addition to the structural issues

there is another associated, but in my mind, a separate ,distinct , self

perpetuating and spreading pathology to treat helps. Perhaps starting with

anti-inflammatory treatments even prior to the inflammatory onset would help?

s. fuchs dc

From: Marc Heller

Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 6:06

AM

To: Sharron Fuchs

Cc: oregondcs

Subject: Re:

THORACIC OUTLET SYNDROME AS A DISORDER OF NEUROGENIC INFLAMMATION

This is a very significant paper. Read it

> http://www.doctorellis.com/TOS_neurogenic.html

Marc Heller

www.marchellerdc.com

www.learnlowforce.com

mheller@...

I am glad you liked it. It helped me immensely. It was great to consider why

,after 'fixing' the structural aspect, you can still have a severe independent

inflammatory component and direct treatment toward that. I have had some

success with high dose Vit C , Vit D and flaxseed oil along with structural

attention.

s. fuchs dc

> >

> >

> > FYI. s. fuchs dc

> >

> > http://www.doctorellis.com/TOS_neurogenic.html

> >

> >

>