Re: /was: Child acting differently at school than

[Guest guest]

Well, she mentioned that she asked " What does the flower smell like? "

and my son said something like " circle " - which I think was probably a

reference to the center of the flower - he almost never says anything

irrelevant - and he may well have not understood what she was asking

but really wants to take conversational turns and so will say *something*.

Those sorts of answers to questions that are not quite " correct " but

are also not irrelevant have mostly disappeared at home, but she is

saying that she gets a lot of that (and she usually can't see the

relevance like I can).

Another example is that she told me that he understands numbers very

well, but only in an abstract sense, and if she asks him something

about numbers that is in a real-life situation he won't answer. Two

days later, when I picked him up I told her how perplexed I was by

that comment, since I felt he regularly demonstrated to me that he

understand how numbers related to objects in the world. Then I turned

to him and said " If Mummy has five apples, and Sam has two oranges... "

and he finished the sentence for me and said " Then you have seven fruits! "

Well the teacher looked amazed and said she had never been able to get

him to answer any question like that she has posed.

And let me say that this is a very small, independent school that is

all about treating children as individuals - it's a great place and

that's why we chose it - they are really trying to meet his needs and

connect with him even in very inventive ways. The problem is that

they're getting a very different picture of him than we get at home.

(and again he loves it and is excited to go, etc. so I am not thinking

he is anxious or upset because there is no sign of that as far as I know.)

I am just trying to work out why he will answer those questions when I

ask (and other sorts of questions) but not when his teacher Sam asks,

fe. And I'm totally confused.

> ====>, did the teacher give any examples of some communication

with your son that you could share? Something that illustrates what

she is talking about?

>

> If not, it may be helpful to ask for some exact examples as that

might illuminate the problem. I always ask for examples, whether the

comment is good or bad, that way I can tell if someone is just saying

something or if they actually know what they're talking about and just

trying to blow smoke up your........

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sally,

He doesn't have an autism diagnosis - only the speech problems

diagnosed (which also include cognitive retrieval of understanding for

words etc.). I am sure that whether he is on the spectrum or not

would be hotly contested between professionals - but school doesn't

have anything that gives any diagnosis at all.

They do help us chelate by giving two doses during the day - although

I don't think they notice the changes in his language that seem to

come with each long round like we do. Of course now that I am hearing

that he doesn't speak to them in the same sorts of ways that he speaks

to us, that doesn't surprise me at all.

>

> Expectations make a lot of difference too. You know you are chelating,

> you see changes. The teacher knows autism doesn't go away or improve,

> he/she doesn't see changes

> Sally

>

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: zpapacarroll

Well, she mentioned that she asked "What does the flower smell like?"and my son said something like "circle" - which I think was probably areference to the center of the flower - he almost never says anythingirrelevant - and he may well have not understood what she was askingbut really wants to take conversational turns and so will say *something*.

====>This is complicated to explain, so bear with me. We did see exactly this kind of behavior at 4 and I believe it is due to more than one thing.

Amongst high functioning kids there still seems to be a problem with segues. I would notice with her, at 4, that one sentence which would have connected what someone said to her and her reply, was missing.

Okay, so in the example above, it makes perfect sense to me. But first, this is kind of a daft ?, don't you think? A flower smells like a flower, but I digress. He couldn't answer the daft ? so he changed it into something he could answer which is, where do you smell a flower? And the answer.....on the circle, or in the center. Because that is where everyone smells a flower, they put their nose right in the circle/center and smell it.

Ours also used to not offer any explanation for why she was doing something different than what she was asked to do, even though what she was doing made perfect sense. Both of these go away with chelation.====>Those sorts of answers to questions that are not quite "correct" butare also not irrelevant have mostly disappeared at home, but she issaying that she gets a lot of that (and she usually can't see therelevance like I can).Another example is that she told me that he understands numbers verywell, but only in an abstract sense, and if she asks him somethingabout numbers that is in a real-life situation he won't answer. Twodays later, when I picked him up I told her how perplexed I was bythat comment, since I felt he regularly demonstrated to me that heunderstand how numbers related to objects in the world. Then I turnedto him and said "If Mummy has five apples, and Sam has two oranges..."and he finished the sentence for me and said "Then you have seven fruits!"

====>Uh huh, in our case, my dd came home from a conference with the nursery school teacher upset because they said ours would probably be dyslexic because she couldn't rhyme words. What? She had been rhyming words since she was two.

I advised her to take ours in front of the teacher and have the teacher pick any word and have her rhyme it. The teacher picked "mate" to which our 4 responded with "great, state, create, ELUCIDATE! Yep, thinking she knew how to rhyme.

Nursery school teachers are not used to children of this age withholding information, but they do, sometimes because they are bored and sometimes just because they know they can. When I took my dgd to preschool I used to sometimes say to her that just because she could play games with the teacher didn't mean it was nice.

And if you can understand abstract concepts in math, can you just imagine how boring it is to be asked to count simple objects? I can. He needs work at his level or they are likely to encounter this one, a lot. Why don't they have him working on abstract concepts?=====>Well the teacher looked amazed and said she had never been able to gethim to answer any question like that she has posed.

====>Because 4 year olds are not supposed to be this tricky, very easy to outsmart the average 4 year old and our school must have believed the research which says 75% of our kids are retarded. It takes the understanding of some pretty sophisticated tactics to be able to do what he does.====>And let me say that this is a very small, independent school that isall about treating children as individuals - it's a great place andthat's why we chose it - they are really trying to meet his needs andconnect with him even in very inventive ways. The problem is thatthey're getting a very different picture of him than we get at home.(and again he loves it and is excited to go, etc. so I am not thinkinghe is anxious or upset because there is no sign of that as far as I know.)

===>Yes, our school was lovely too, but they were not equipped, without our help to figure out what to do with her. Once they started giving her alternative work on her level while the other children were working on letter sounds, this stuff stopped.

Hope this helps, some.

I am just trying to work out why he will answer those questions when Iask (and other sorts of questions) but not when his teacher Sam asks,fe. And I'm totally confused.> ====>, did the teacher give any examples of some communicationwith your son that you could share? Something that illustrates whatshe is talking about?> > If not, it may be helpful to ask for some exact examples as thatmight illuminate the problem. I always ask for examples, whether thecomment is good or bad, that way I can tell if someone is just sayingsomething or if they actually know what they're talking about and justtrying to blow smoke up your........>

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

We have exactly the same problem with our son, who is 10 years old. This has been the same right through school regarding his speech.

I may be able to shed some light on it for you though. Our speech therapist told us right at the beginning that for children with a speech difficulty they can be up to a year behind at school compared to at home. Apparently this is to do with confidence. At home they know where they stand and the questions and answers etc are very often the same ones so are reasonably predictable. They are also in a relaxed environment. However, in school things are always on the change the atmosphere more formal and it is different people the child is having to converse with.

Our therapist was absolutely right. Every time we see a huge improvement at home, it is anything up to twelve months before they see it at school.

Hope this helps.

[Guest guest]

>

> Amongst high functioning kids there still seems to be a problem

with segues. I would notice with her, at 4, that one sentence which

would have connected what someone said to her and her reply, was missing.

Yeah, I get this sense as well. I do this too - in that I make

conceptual leaps assuming everyone is following, when in fact somtimes

they are not.

>

> Ours also used to not offer any explanation for why she was doing

something different than what she was asked to do, even though what

she was doing made perfect sense.

>

I think this is one of the things that they struggle with - because

for most people they are working to try and make certain that they are

understood and my son is often oblivious *unless* someone is saying

they don't understand plus he is not getting something that he wants.

>

> Nursery school teachers are not used to children of this age

withholding information, but they do, sometimes because they are bored

and sometimes just because they know they can.

That's a very interesting point. I don't think he cares enough to be

playing games, to be honest, but I can totally see that he is bored

sometimes and anyway has a very sensible aversion to being asked to

behave like a trained seal. :-)

>

> ===>Yes, our school was lovely too, but they were not equipped,

without our help to figure out what to do with her. Once they started

giving her alternative work on her level while the other children were

working on letter sounds, this stuff stopped.

>

I think it is a very similar problem - they really do want to reach

him - they just really don't know how. And then I come along and find

out he is behaving so differently at school that some of the things I

am suggesting are not working or even making sense because of the

differences in his behavior there and think getting my head around

that will put me in the best position to help. Thanks a lot for the

discussion!

[Guest guest]

Hi -

This makes a lot of sense. I think we do speak to our son in usual,

predictable kinds of ways, and of course at school a bunch of people

relate to him very differently. I am sure that this is having some

impact. I am going to ask our speech therapist as well and see if her

experience reflects this as well. Thanks a lot for mentioning this.

> Our speech therapist

> told us right at the beginning that for children with a speech

difficulty

> they can be up to a year behind at school compared to at home.

Apparently this

> is to do with confidence. At home they know where they stand and the

> questions and answers etc are very often the same ones so are

reasonably

> predictable. They are also in a relaxed environment. However, in

school things are

> always on the change the atmosphere more formal and it is different

people the

> child is having to converse with.